I'm not sure we should be celebrating the FL pastor's caving to pressure.

[Skip Intro]

Not sure our freedom of expression wasn't just weakened.

And yes, I'm talking about the right, not the action itself.

I was saddened when Comedy Central decided to censor the South Park Mohammad episode, caving to threats. By that same token, I'm not sure something good happened today, with the FL pastor changing his mind, under pressure, about the Koran burning. It doesn't feel right that someone was forced to forgo his/her constitutionally protected demonstration amid pressure and threats from others.

I have to wonder what the reaction would have been had the whole thing concerned a group of atheists burning Bibles.

Not looking for flames here, just exploring the other side of the issue. Does it bother anyone else that an American was forced out of exercising his rights by intimidation? Doesn't it set a scary precedent?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Poor, poor terry jones.

:nopity:

[cynatnite]

2. Nope, doesn't bother me a bit...he was gonna burn a book...

sure, he's got the right to do it, just as the rest of America has the right to pressure him to think twice about it. If he really wanted to burn a book, no one could stop him.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. He was in this for the money

debt up to his eyelids.

Call me a cynic but he got all the mileage he needed from this (and funds)... and just doing it would put certain risks that he wasn't willing to take.

Oh and personally... the world wide travel alert will make airport security all kinds of fun...

[krispos42]

4. Yeah, it bothers me too.

I guess, unlike the Park 51 MCC, the act of doing this might raise international backlash, so that's positive, but the fact is, this bell can't be un-rung. Once it hit the news wires, I think the only way this could have ended well was if the church's pastor got kicked out and his replacement decided to cancel the event.

Or if there was a major rainstorm or something, but you know what I mean.




Of course, with the Park 51 MCC, the act of protesting it might raise an international backlash.

[gophates]

6. Hate speech isn't protected.

This was hateful to its core. It was designed to create a confrontation, a riot. It was designed to inflame people. It was an act of bigotry and hatred.

If there's a crapstorm over something that doesn't rise to that level, we draw the line then. Each incident is separate.

[krispos42]

18. Incitement to riot speech isn't protected

But if it doesn't reach that point, it is protected. And since Muslims are a small minority in America and in that area of Florida, then the immediate reaction to the burning will not cause a riot.

Oh, if the Muslims put together an rally and were a few thousand strong on the day and time of the burning, then the immediate predicted reaction might be enough to say "No" without violating the First Amendment. But that probably isn't going to happen.

So yeah, it's hate speech, but it's protected the same way that the ravings of the KKK or the RW media machine are.

[coti]

5. Nope, that's the way it's supposed to work. No, his rights weren't affected.

It's supposed to be that when people have bad ideas, they get shouted down and finally shut up. This is the 1st Amendment at its finest.

If he'd taken the right position, on the other hand, hopefully he would have stood by it despite the clamor. See the NYC Islam community center Imam for a good example of that.

[SmileyRose]

7. Last I read he's still flapping around undecided.

Something about being betrayed by the Imam.

"Exercising the rights" is a funny thing. He has the right to burn a book - everyone else has the right to tell him he's a fucking dumbass.

[gophates]

8. He doesn't have the right to start a fire without a burn permit.

Or to operate a furniture store in a tax-free church property. This guy doesn't give a crap about laws. He's in it for his own notariety.

[BlueCheese]

14. Okay, but those are side issues. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. You are being polite

my choice of words is far more... colorful.

[rucky]

10. Free expression is a two way street.

The way I see it, the First Amendment is a brilliantly authored right. First, it limits government's role in deciding what can and can't be said in public. But what it also does is encourage public debate, leaving the power to interpret and react to free expression - either supportively or prohibitively - without the government trying to do that for us.

Gates & Patraeus didn't force the burning to stop, but they did exert influence in the name of national security - which automatically raises alarm bells with us. As long as they don't abuse that influence, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt about whether this truly is a security concern (common sense also tells me it is).

[whosinpower]

11. You have it backwards

Him caving (or not so much according to the latest news) is the result of freedom of speech.
No one forced him or forbid him to go through with his insult. He was not arrested.

That the world community vociferously and vigorously condemned his action is freedom of speech personified. That is its strength. I will repeat - he was not arrested.

Just as he has a right to go through with his insulting protest - you have every right to tell him it is stupid, bigotted, small minded and dangerous. You have every right to inform him there are consequences to his actions - and there already have been. 4 people shot in front of a christian church in Baghdad. 4 people lost their lives because he ENJOYS A RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH.

[eShirl]

12. a legal right does not prohibit societal pressure

there is nothing precedent-setting about it at all

[BlueCheese]

13. I understand your point.

I don't know enough about the circumstances under which he apparently called off his stunt. Most of the pressure seems to have come from various officials saying it was a bad idea. I think that's fine.

There was a thread earlier about him receiving a visit from the FBI. That's not so fine.

[Bluenorthwest]

15. Uh, he does not have the right to grand stand in front of the world

and hear no reaction. Because he's not the only one with freedom of speech. That is how it works, that is what makes it work.

[dkf]

16. I'm beginning to think it isn't about free speech so much as provoking a response to say something

About Islam.

[bemildred]

17. I am, it's a good thing. nt