Bob Herbert: Democrats facing an election debacle because they didn't respond to peoples dire needs

[Better Believe It]

Paying the Price
By BOB HERBERT
Published: September 10, 2010

.... voters do not feel that the administration and Congress have delivered the fundamental change they were seeking when they swept President Obama and huge Democratic majorities into office nearly two years ago.

The Democrats are in deep, deep trouble because they have not effectively addressed the overwhelming concern of working men and women: an economy that is too weak to provide the jobs they need to support themselves and their families. And that failure is rooted in the Democrats’ continued fascination with the self-serving conservative belief that the way to help ordinary people is to shower money on the rich and wait for the blessings to trickle down to the great unwashed below.

With the nation losing hundreds of thousands of jobs a month in early-2009, the president and his allies in Congress could have rallied the citizenry to participate in the difficult work of nation-building here at home. He could have called on everyone to share in the sacrifices that needed to be made, and he could have demanded much more from the financial and corporate elites who were being bailed out with the people’s money.

For Mr. Obama and the Democrats, that would have meant that health insurance reform, however noble, would have had to wait, and the war in Afghanistan would have had to de-escalate.

That didn’t happen. The Democrats are facing an election debacle because they did not respond adequately to their constituents’ most dire needs. The thing that is really weird is that a strengthened G.O.P. will undoubtedly make matters so much worse.

Please read the full article at:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/11/opinion/11herbert.html?_r=1&ref=bobherbert

[msongs]

1. dems will not stand up for social security - too bad they should slam repubs on it but can't

every dem every day should be slamming repubs on this but unfortunately dems do not have a clear "social security now and forever" stance - instead of hemming and hawing about weakening SS dems ought be making it stronger by r aising the wage cap etc

[molly77]

84. Did WE ever find out where all the tax paid funding

for TARP went? How could anybody vote democratic after Rahm Emmanuel moved into the WH and put everybody down who worked to get obama elected? Howard Dean , how was he repaid? He has been treated like poor relations by the clintons and obama's administration. Howard Dean, one of the few honest men in politics.Nov. will be a debacle...thanks hill, bill and rahm. You did it again. Screwed your own.

[ProSense]

2. "the G.O.P.’s quickest ticket back to power." Now there is a solution to America's problems.

But voters do not feel that the administration and Congress have delivered the fundamental change they were seeking when they swept President Obama and huge Democratic majorities into office nearly two years ago. Forget about the crazies in the Tea Party for the moment. Forget about the ugly Republican obstructionism that is based on the idea that the failure not just of President Obama but of American society itself is the G.O.P.’s quickest ticket back to power.

Forget about that for a moment. The Democrats are in deep, deep trouble because they have not effectively addressed the overwhelming concern of working men and women: an economy that is too weak to provide the jobs they need to support themselves and their families. And that failure is rooted in the Democrats’ continued fascination with the self-serving conservative belief that the way to help ordinary people is to shower money on the rich and wait for the blessings to trickle down to the great unwashed below.

It was a bogus concept when George H.W. Bush denounced it as “voodoo economics” in 1980, and it remains bogus today, no matter how hard the Democrats try to dress it up in a donkey costume.

No, let's not forget.

Krugman: Redo That Voodoo

[Cherchez la Femme]

108. When the elected Party won't do anything for the people

but for the corporations; what, exactly, is the impetus to re/elect more?

Your fandom completely obscures discernment, basic logic and the recognition of basic human nature

[lonestarnot]

143. Hey! My kid is covered until he's 26 on my insurance and he received President Obama's Scholarship.

So I wouldn't say "anything" if I were you. But then I'm not you.

[Cherchez la Femme]

150. No, *you* should not say "anything" as

you are the (indirect) recipient of some largess

Well, I probably wouldn't if I were you!
But then I'm not you.

But what has your received largess have to do with ME
and keeping MY mouth shut? :shrug:

[Lasher]

3. The new liberals bought into the trickle-down, free trade, deregulation & privatization crap.

If we didn't have so many neoliberal Democrats in office we wouldn't be worried about losing control of Congress in November. I blame the DSCC & DCCC for this.

:kick:

[ProSense]

5. No, I don't think

that's it: Domestic Spending Increased A Record 16%

[galileoreloaded]

6. You honestly buy into all this "recovery" stuff don't you? I can't.....

[ProSense]

9. So the point where it drops is bad? Want to add the narrative to that chart?

<...>

The blue line is the number of workers unemployed for 27 weeks or more. The red line is the same data as a percent of the civilian workforce.

According to the BLS, there are 6.249 million workers who have been unemployed for more than 26 weeks and still want a job. This is 4.1% of the civilian workforce. It appears the number of long term unemployed has peaked ... hopefully not because people are giving up.

Summary

The underlying details of the employment report were mixed. The positives: the upward revisions to the June and July reports, a slight increase in hours worked for manufacturing employees (flat for all employees), an increase in hourly wages, and the decrease in the long term unemployed. Other positives include the slight increase in the employment-population ratio and the participation rate.

link

The fact, anyway you spin it, is that the economy is no longer losing 800,000 jobs a month due to the stimulus. As for the other information provided on domestic spending, this administration has increase spending on every front, including significant increases for food stamps, to rectify a crisis created by the previous adminstration.

Weekly Initial Unemployment Claims decline

[galileoreloaded]

36. Sure. The narrative is that 4 times more people are out of work....

for longer than most workers can remember. Yea!

Also, people that don't have jobs tend to burn things.

How am I doing so far?

[Better Believe It]

11. Thanks for that chart. It clearly shows just how terrible the "Great Recession" really is.

We need massive public works and infrastructure programs. Even George Will, no supporter of government spending for jobs, felt compelled to describe the 50 billion dollars infrastructure plan proposed over 5 years as being "trivial".

Can anyone dispute that description?

We need Congressman Oberstar's 500 billion dollar infrastructure bill passed.

[Skittles]

74. it's called twisting oneself into a pretzel

to defend the indefensible

[Lasher]

8. You have cited a result.

I was thinking more about causes.

[NorthCarolina]

103. The term New "Liberals" makes me cringe as there is nothing "Liberal" about them

Why don't we simply stick to the term that even Obama associates himself with, that of "New Dem", or the even more correct version "DLC New Dem". I think the term "Liberal" has been denigrated enough already, and we should resist using is as a descriptor of the DLC.

[Lasher]

148. This is economic liberalism.

May I suggest that you have a look at this article about Neoliberalism?

[lonestarnot]

144. I'd have to agree 100%. We did everything we could despite the reality.

[asdjrocky]

4. Indeed.

[xultar]

52. It's the economy stupid. You would have thought we'd learned by now.

:cry:

[Bitwit1234]

7. One of the problems is "who expected the Democrats to

magically wave and wand and correct everything". Only the republicans, who are glad they couldn't. And what happened -- the republicans delayed and obstructed every single thing they tried to do. They knew they could use it against the Democrats and turn it around to say that the Democratic congress didn't improve everything. The problem with the Democrats is they didn't yell it loud and long enough that the republicans were obstructing. Of course fox wouldn't repeat it, but if they said it enough they might have gotten the networks and MSNBC to. CNN which is just fox light would have passed it by.

[Lasher]

10. You're right, Democrats can't solve all our problems overnight.

But they should have been doing more to oppose Reaganomics for the past 3 decades.

[Better Believe It]

12. Name any of the economic problems they have even begun to "solve" during this Great Recession.

Are we better off now than we were two years ago?

That's the question most people will be asking in November.

[Lasher]

41. I am convinced their stimulus spending has averted a greater calamity.

Praise God, we'll never know how bad that might have been. But you're right, most voters will be upset because the past two years didn't suddenly turn into our most prosperous time ever.

[ProudDad]

57. No it didn't -- it just saved the banksters (n/t)

[opihimoimoi]

13. FUCK THIS RW MEME SHIT..The GOPers are in deep crap and wanna FOOL the American

people like they did in past years....

using propaganda and psyops, they have no other weapon in their quiver, they continue their quest of returning to loot America....

[Better Believe It]

14. Why do you think that Bob Herbert is a right-wing Republican?

I bet you don't know anything about him and his political history and views.

So before you spread any more nonsense about Herbert I suggest you investigate his background to avoid appearing at best uninformed and at worst shooting from the lip without knowing the facts.

[opihimoimoi]

15. I read his crap and I felt it was RW CRAP....I don't give a fuck about his history

The DEMs are doing fine and gonna sweep the floor in NOV

I had enough of this tearing down our odds in Nov
\
Where is Heberts solutions if he is so fucking smart...?

[Better Believe It]

16. "Where is Heberts solutions if he is so fucking smart...?" Read his articles and you'll find out.

Can you articulate what you disagree with in this article and why?

I assume you actually read the complete article.

Is that a false assumption on my part?

It appears you prefer using four letter words like "fuck" and "crap" in your response but please try to write a critique that is a little deeper and more convincing.

OK?

[opihimoimoi]

34. #1,,,,I did not call him a GOPer...I said he used a GOPer meme

It appears you jumped to conclusions.

If his answers solutions are so good...why are they not implemented as of yet?

Its because his solutions are inadequate??

and, btw, I am a very frustrated Dem who refuse the Madness of the Wacko GOP and their Psyops agenda.

All they wanna do is destroy Obama and the Dem Party...not for Country First but for Selfish reasons

His article reeked of GOP Teardown talking Points...

[Better Believe It]

40. Be more specific. What Republican talking points is Herbert repeating?

That the economy is in recession?

That we need jobs?

That we need bold and massive government public works programs?

[opihimoimoi]

56. He ain't saying anything we don't know. its a given...to repeat is to add to the din

Where are his specific answers???

So far there is none on the radar.

and to remind ourselves...it took W 8 years to mess up our Nation....

Obama deserves more time than his 18 months so far to fix it.

The GOP is at fault in extending the recovery....they refuse to help...vote as a bloc.....

setting themselves up as BLOC TARGETS....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5FZvwOjCjY

chill with Happy Music that is insufficient within our Realm

[quiet.american]

116. The RW meme he's repeating is that Democrats haven't done anything to address these things.

He's either got his head in the sand, or is being willfully ignorant - to what purpose, I don't know.

[opihimoimoi]

123. Thank you so much.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dp72a6rx9-M&feature=fvsr

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. Because anyone who goes against the party line is a RW republican

Or perhaps it's a lack of critical thinking skills.

[QC]

28. Bob Herbert is an agent of Goldstein! n/t

[opihimoimoi]

58. in these times, mostly a pub leaning person... its just that the dude is boring

Solutions to the National quagmire not even addressed....nevertheless, a brave man to speak his mind.

but boring...he needs bazzazz

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

124. Deleted message

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[Cherchez la Femme]

109. Yes, he hatez Dem's & Obama

spewing all those "Right-Wing talking points"!!!1!

Can't criticize! If you can't say anything nice about Obama's policies then you're only allowed to march in lock-step
preferably cooing about how marvelous Obama looks in a bathing suit,
and what a family man! (Unlike the Clenis & his emasculating wife <--but just during the primaries, after the Pres appointed her suddenly she wasn't racist anymore! Ta-da!)

I guess Bob Herbert wants to be, and be called a troll!

[EFerrari]

21. Bob Herbert?!

Well, no.

[QC]

27. Staggering, isn't it?

I guess no one is safe now.

[MadHound]

55. So we're all little brainwashed victims of RW media, without the ability to think for ourselves?

'Scuse me, I think not. Millions of people in this country are living with Obama's inability or unwillingness to effectively address what is most important to people for the past, geez, two years, JOBS!

Instead, he has already handed us one stimulus package that consisted of forty percent tax cuts, the least effective form of economic stimulus. Now he is getting ready to push through another stimulus package that is made up of over seventy percent tax cuts and credits, again please note the least effective forms of economic stimuli. Also note that job creation, jobs programs are among the most effective form of economic stimuli.

This isn't the GOP using propaganda and psyops, this is real people, millions of us, who have no jobs, shrinking prospects and little hope. Whose lives have, at best, been put on hold. Many millions are sliding into debt and ruin, you don't need to turn on the TV to see that.

Furthermore, you are insulting the intelligence of those who do criticize the president, the left in this country isn't dumb (as a matter of fact several studies have shown that the left is smarter than the right). And we aren't blind either. We know what needs to be done, we know that it can be done. There is simply no excuse for Obama to not address the pressing needs (JOBS) in a rapid and effective manner.

This isn't about propaganda, this isn't about psyops, this is about failure to do the job.

[opihimoimoi]

60. in 18 months??? with the GOPers ankle biting 24/7?

yeah...right

[MadHound]

65. Funny that you should mention ankle biting,

Because frankly, that's what the 'Pugs were eighteen months ago, ankle biters. Yet despite large majorities in Congress, and control of the WH, the president and Democratic leadership felt that they had to, for some strange reason, be bipartisan. This only encouraged the 'Pugs to digging their heals further in, so the first stimulus became even more watered down with tax cuts.

Handling a recalcitrant political party is pretty simple sometime. You don't continue to reward them for their bad behavior. Instead, you fight them, even if that means a real live, talk for days and pee in a bottle filibuster. The Dems had the political will behind them, they could have easily won.

Yet now we are settling for stimulus packages containing over seventy percent tax cuts.

Fail.

[opihimoimoi]

69. sorry,... they are ankle biters of the selfish kind

[MadHound]

70. Doesn't matter what kind they were,

What matters is the fact that Democrats were strong, not only in numbers, but political will. The people wanted change and what we got was simply more of the same, tax cuts, tax credits, the least effective form of economic stimulus going.

People didn't want miracles, but they were hoping for some common sense, intelligence, and willingness to fight on the part of the Dems, and they didn't get that. That's not the fault of anybody but this administration and the Democratic leadership.

[opihimoimoi]

71. Miricles in 18 months in this acrimonious environs...no, it will take 36 more months

its the fault of the GOP Party of NO

thas where zee blame lies...the Wacko Pubs.

[MadHound]

72. So the Dems shouldn't fight?

They shouldn't even put up a show of trying to do what the people in this country elected them to do? Again, fail.

And frankly, this excuse that the GOP is blocking anything constructive getting done is utter bull. The 'Pugs, a minority party, threaten a filibuster and the Dems fold like wet cardboard. Time and again they've given away the farm, despite broad public support (remember the public option).

We're not expecting miracles out here, but we do expect the Dems to fight, to do what we elected them to do. Instead we get cave after cave.

Besides, if the Dems haven't put up a fight in the past eighteen months, what makes you think they'll put up one in the next three years?

[opihimoimoi]

78. The Dems are fighting for the Masses:: The GOP is fighting for THEIR ASSES

Big Diff

This is why the GOP are LOSERS

They have convinced enough that THEY are the PROBLEM.....

Its THEY Who FAILED AMERICA....

[MadHound]

96. If the Dems were actually fighting, when are they going to force a real, live filibuster

Instead of folding let wet cardboard at the mere threat?

[opihimoimoi]

104. The Dems seem to be doing all right...got many issues passed despite asshole GOPers obstacles

What will happen in Nov...? total repudiation of Republican Bad Ideas

Their Heros are Zeros

Have some Peace music http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dp72a6rx9-M&feature=fvsr

[MadHound]

106. Where's the stimulus plan that is all about job creation, not about tax cuts?

Where is the repeal of DADT? Where is the repeal of NCLB? Where is a public option? Where is the end of the wars?

If you actually thing that the Dems are "doing all right" then you've got a pretty damn threshold when it comes to judging what "all right" is.

[opihimoimoi]

122. The Nit Trees are having a bumper crop this year....nuts all over the ground ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dp72a6rx9-M&feature=fvsr

[MadHound]

127. In other words, you have no cognizant arguments to make a rebuttal,

So you're simply resorting to snark and insults. Way to win minds and influence people. Get back to me when you have something intelligent to contribute.

[Name removed]

130. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cherchez la Femme]

111. "The Dems are fighting for the Masses" -- They ARE??

:wow: Must be a dimension of chess I can't see 'cause it's beyond the spectrum of mortal human perception...

[opihimoimoi]

121. Somebody is.. cause it sure ain't the Republicans...they fight for themselves ...only themselves

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dp72a6rx9-M&feature=fvsr

cool music

[Cherchez la Femme]

126. Just because the Rpublicants Don't fight for the masses

does not mean that the Democrats actually are

[opihimoimoi]

131. Yes they are...and would be much more jobs, etc if it were not for the GOP Party of NO

8 Years of GOP rule got us shit

Obama is doing so good the GOP are in a panick....resorting to outright lies and deception...

He has created more jobs in 18 months than Bush did in 8 years

He has Positivity in his agenda....something alien to the GOP who cling on Negativity 24/7

Amazing Grace

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dp72a6rx9-M&feature=fvsr

Humanity is at stake while we nitpick moot....

either we swim together Positively as a species

or we sink Negatively into perpetual Misery/extinction

Mathematics demand we make a choice.

Resources going down, consumption going up. Famine will follow...big kine Famine...

We can avert if we act now....but we won't because of myopic mindsets....tragic for us and our

descendants.

Tragic for the environment who suffers needless damage.

opi

come, we go surfing

[Cherchez la Femme]

137. They fought for the Corporations, they fought for BP

to take much less blame for the catastrophe in the Gulf (and the 'most of the oil has *poof*, evaporated is truly one big, unfunny joke!)
Out and out LIES.

But they were informed by many people that their economic stimulus, after the trillions given without accountability to Wall Street/banksters, was too small to work and they ignored it.

Good old Gates, Summers, lobbyists hired (who he said he'd get rid of permanently), et. al.!
And of course all the Republicants picked by him --In the "Yes We Can!" administration!-- for important positions!


Their "protection" for citizens losing their houses via bank repossesions was WAY too little, too late.

Their Health Insurance 'Reform' --mandatory purchase-- was a huge giveaway to those corporations, and let's not forget the pharmaceutical companies! When the Insurance corps were dancing with joy about that bill, we KNEW we were in big trouble.

'Let's look forward, not backward.' --and let the War Criminals get away scot free.

The BP/Gulf of Mexico (spreading to a body of drinking water near you! fiasco was mishandled from the very start -- from Obama stating how safe, with all the new technology when every single thing BP tried was at least 20 years old (perhaps bar the poison sprayed on our waters),
to him actually thinking that he wasn't going to 'let this become *his* problem' (He's the POTUS fer Pete's sake!), to the outright lies and secrecy exhibited by this government is nothing but sinful.
A SIN.

Gitmo not closed.

DADT still operational,
and let's not forget how Obama's Justice Department went to court saying LGBTQI's were pedophiles and/or incestuous and/or indulged in bestiality!

His backing of Prop H8 right before the vote!
SUCH a "Fierce Advocate"!

Union busting. Including giving "American" corporations bail-outs so they could open plants in Mexico!

No repeal of NCLB.

Treatment of teachers.

Vouchers & all that entails. Public schools getting shit.

Not using his 'Bully Pulpit' for *Anything*!

"Positivity"?! As real and as useful as his "Hope" and "Change".
What of the "Positivity" of those such as Gibbs & Emmanuel, and more? They were never taken to task for their BS, obviously they were talking the Official talk.

"It's only one prayer". This guy who he picked: 'It's only one Uganda bill to summarily execute gays.'

When HASN'T the GOP indulged in Lies & Deception?

Triangulation, blast from the past!


You speak of the environment... has Obama signed the Kyoto Treaty yet?

Amazing Grace??



Cripe, I could go on & on & ON; but this should be enough to start...


Sure, Obama is better than Bush! *TM
but all the above, plus more, is NOT what I worked to get him elected for,
nor is it what I voted for!

[opihimoimoi]

139. Forget CYNICISM and negativity...it will only sour the atmosphere

Work toward the COMMON GOOD FOR ALL OF US....together solve, together we live, dance, sing...apart we suffer

I look for Positivity when trying to solve...that means whats best for all of us...ALL of US

[Cherchez la Femme]

140. Opi -- I am ALWAYS working for the common good

'Think globally, act locally' isn't just a sound byte for me.

I'm a literacy volunteer, I volunteer time at local food banks and soup kitchens, I rescue all sorts of abandoned, injured and feral animals and I make sure I hopefully, compassionately, rather than 'I'm gonna tell them a thing or two!' point out to people that way over 100 times to 1 most people see an abandoned, injured or in danger animal and don't stop to help it, fallaciously thinking
as they (most) ALL do, that Someone Else Will Take Care Of It!

--which of course, if most everyone thinks that (which they invariably do)--
therefore NOBODY will help the creature in need!

Heck, my very own sister 'felt bad' but never pulled over to rescue a kitten in the middle of a 4 lane (one way) expressway at morning rush hour and she made the mistake of telling me about it
using just that fallacious reason!
I'm sorry to say I wasn't as soft-spoken and compassionate with her as I would have been with a stranger,
but I've learned since then.

Anyhow, I do a lot of volunteer work and I'm writing this NOT for any Kudos (volunteering is its own fantastic reward!) but hopefully to show that I do walk & talk what I preach.


I have been a life-ong Democrat and have volunteered for many campaigns, most of which I completely believed in (Louise Slaufgter for one) but even those I have had reservations about
--Obama's post-primary campaign because for many reasons
such as knowing he was anything but Liberal, that he & Hillary had almost the exact same platform; realizing he, no matter his (much belated) assertions that he was such a Fierce Advocate & promises to use his 'Bully Pulpit' would not be true & not help the LGBTQI community whatsoever.

Damn, I am never wrong when it comes to predicting a politician lying/false promises or the ultimate outcome of a a certain political situation -- but bat .000 when it comes to deciding upon my own, life-impacting decisions!


Any road, when I see the BS issuing from ANY politician's lips --whether they have an R, a D or other letter after their name-- I cannot help but to speak my mind

and thoughts of positivity cannot ameliorate the revulsion I feel for the outright lying our elected officials have no compunction against saying to us.

I DO wish I could be like you and think all positive and rosy no matter the reality;
I wouldn't have such angst and sadness

...but, as Popeye said, 'I am what I am' :(

[opihimoimoi]

145. Cheer up...life is good.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8qLp2r7lkk&feature=more_related

music is soothing and inspiring, comforting, enjoyable

Come, we open wine and enjoy

[Cherchez la Femme]

152. "Don't worry, Be happy"

Not coined in an irritating 80's song but by Meher Baba!

I wish it were all as easy as that (to reference another religion, I know upon death my soul no longer equivalently weighs a feather -- wow I hope that religion is wrong!)!


But thanks -- I'll try!
Cheers! :toast:

[Cherchez la Femme]

110. Strong in 'political ability' or 'political will'?

I've seen little to none of the latter...

[MadHound]

128. That would be strong in political ability,

The voters came them the tools to carry out real change, but somewhere along the way the Democrat's will disappeared.

And that is the whole of the problem. If the Democrats had showed some will and stepped into the ring to truly fight, they wouldn't be having this problem right now. People aren't expecting miracles, but they do expect the best attempt possible.

[Cherchez la Femme]

138. Obama was elected with much Political Ability

i.e. Capital

But he had no Will to Politically exercise it;
no matter what a good talk he talked when campaigning, walking the walk has been sorely MIA.


That is what I meant by my post.

[howmad1]

59. And the dumb shit Americans buy the rethuglican meme:

hook, line and sinker. What do you expect from the dumbest country on the planet?

[opihimoimoi]

79. The shift toward Reason is in play...GOP lost 2 in a row and are in

a panick over losing another one....

Despite their big bucks...look for a GOP Loss of Face...

[muriel_volestrangler]

83. Your optimism is enviable, but shared by almost no-one else

People like Nate Silver think the Republicans will take control of the House, and make significant gains in the Senate, and for governors.

[opihimoimoi]

87. Doesn't make any sense...The wacko GOPers have a proven dismal track record

All the traits and evidence of Peterism, selfishness/greed and lack of Empathy

They have destroyed too much for them to regain power.

[muriel_volestrangler]

89. Yeah, but it's been clear for some time that many American voters don't make sense

Their 'thought' process goes something like:

1. The only Republican policy is to cut taxes for the rich

2. I want to be rich

3. Therefore, the Republicans want to cut my taxes

4. Therefore, I will vote Republican

Or, for some, it goes "Abortion/homosexuality/welfare is eevul, so I'll vote for the guy who shouts that the loudest".

What appears to be happening is that these fools are still intent on voting Republican this fall, while some Democrats are disheartened and won't bother voting - letting the Republicans back in.

[opihimoimoi]

93. How utterly Tragic for our future and Planet....the GOP misfits

stealing yet another election

[Octafish]

17. Once in a generation opportunity...

...perhaps a once in a lifetime opportunity -- because, should they win, the GOP will make things worse for everyone except the rich.

[opihimoimoi]

105. Hey there

try it :wink:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dp72a6rx9-M&feature=fvsr

[newspeak]

141. thanks Octafish!!!!

It would have been better if Obama came out with fists flying, with real health care reform, real job creation bills and appointments of especially, economists that have another view of economics other than Friedman's shite. He could have used a Roubini, Stiglitz, even Galbraith over someone like Summers, Geithner and Paulsen. Just by his very selections, he shows where his priorities are. But, to me, it would have been better to put progressive bills on the table and if the repugs are shown as obstructionists, to publicly go to the people and tell it like it is. We have people suffering and the repugs don't care--if we want these bills to pass then elect those who are willing to pass domestic bills for mainstreet.

It's been almost two years and those with short term memories cannot see that the economic trouble has been caused by massive deregulation, especially of Wall Street, of Reagan's trickle on economics, of unfair trade agreements. This economic downturn has been thirty years in the making, with help of democrats along the way. But, the real culprits are the ones who had the reins for eight years-syphoning off money to fund war profiteers in bogus wars, giving the wealthy another tax break, and doing absolutely nothing to create jobs.

For the electorate to again vote for repugs, who created this humongous mess, is a people committing suicide. And, the media have been accomplices every step of the way. I have never seen such blatant propaganda and talking spin--ya know "we gotta catapult the propaganda." "the media is as left as it's corporate master's allow them to be." Not left at all--anything for corporate interest they seem to get the people to vote against their own interest, either by fear, bigotry or just plain stupid.

[kentuck]

18. They under-estimated the gravity of the crisis.

And now they will probably pay a high political price for that miscalculation. Of course, with the Repubs totally against him and with many Democratic poseurs in his own Party, it was hard to get a consensus on any issue. Sometimes I think his biggest enemy was his own Party?

[Better Believe It]

23. He could have bypassed the "moderate" Repubs and Dems and appealed directly to the people.

for support behind a bold government plan to end the "Great Recession" and rebuild the nation and the economy.

But, President Obama pointed out at his news conference that he prefers a "lean" government, has absolute confidence in Wall Street and corporate America and doesn't think it's the government's job and his responsibility to take action that will restore jobs and prosperity.

[kentuck]

29. But he didn't think there was a "Great Recession" at the time...

and I'm not sure if he thinks so now. This may end up being a tragic mistake?

[Better Believe It]

33. But almost everyone on DU and progressive economists understood it was an economic crisis.

and not your typical recession when President Obama was sworn in.

[Cherchez la Femme]

112. If progressives

i.e. Libruls advocate anything can you actually see the White House doing anything (like even consider the argument) other than ignoring it with prejudice?

[girl gone mad]

37. They were warned.

Their response was to belittle, insult and ignore those who were warning them.

[bkozumplik]

73. his biggest enemy is himself

well, and reid.

[Edweird]

19. Fake republicans vs real republicans..Maybe we can learn from this and purge the DLC'ers. DLC=GOP

As a party we need to dump these 'kinder gentler republican' losers immediately and get back to being a party 'of' and 'for' the people. This 'we're almost not as bad as them' lame bullshit is failure incarnate.

[Better Believe It]

25. Perhaps the DLC is the real Democratic Party and we are just the "fringe" liberal element ....

that has no agenda setting real power, compared to Wall Street and corporate America, in the Democratic Party.

It's a big tent.

But who is running the circus and who are the ringmasters?

[Edweird]

26. Not a chance. There's what? A dozen? Maybe two dozen of them here, tops?

Despite all their noise they are the minority. These are Reaganites that have infiltrated and demolished the party of FDR. "No responsibility to create jobs and restore prosperity" Are you fucking kidding me? That's an absolute travesty.,

[Better Believe It]

31. Not many are here but I was thinking more in terms of actual power positions in the party.

[metapunditedgy]

50. Political power and financial control are a paper tiger.

They can slow down change and make threats, but it doesn't take many people to brush them aside.

Obama's successful campaign shows just how much power ordinary people have. (And we didn't even try.)

[quakerboy]

64. speak for yourself

I had to try a lot, and I know many others put everything they had into that effort

[metapunditedgy]

68. Sorry, I should have said that there was momentum to spare after the election.

Not that it was easy to get to that point. Apologies.

[flyarm]

45. you are 100% correct! Thank you! eom

[stranger81]

147. That's what much of this board would have you believe. [n/t]

[Lyric]

20. There is nothing that people hate more than hearing an opinion

that directly contradicts their own preconceived worldview.

This is as true of the left as it is of the right. We fool ourselves into thinking that only the "Freepers" ignore reality and substitute their own hopes and wishes in its place, but we're just as prone to doing it ourselves. We don't WANT to believe that Obama and the elected Dems might have made the wrong choices in the past two years. Therefore...we simply choose NOT to believe. We ignore and/or viciously suppress any information that might support a contrary version of reality, and we accuse anyone who doesn't do the same of being "disloyal", or a "troll", or a "shit-stirrer".

Oh how we love our precious illusions.

:shrug:

[flyarm]

46. Seems to me those that are delusional are in a very small minority who use Bully Tactics to attempt

to sway the non delusional...or they are just propagandists..for what ever reasons..pay or to protect their own aganda..or just sheer delusion.

And when we succumb to their tactics ..we all lose.

[RandomThoughts]

22. I think trying to help as many people as possible is the best choices.

Their is a certain philosophy that has always supported money over people.
And they have the gual to call themselves noble.

I say it is really.

No-Bull when money for a few is supported instead of what helps many people.





Mythbusters: Bull In A China Shop
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nk_zpMory-0


Call the bluff and raise with...
bull chips...

[bobbolink]

30. Gee, when we say this on DU, we get slammed.

NO help for homeless people, cutting food stamps, purging disabled people.. Geewhizakers... I can't understand why that isn't getting them LOTS of votes and accolades!

Piss off poor people, piss off labor, piss off teachers, piss off the left wing....

Yup, great strategery.

:pukeP

[Safetykitten]

32. Fascinating. Bob Herbert found upstate sleeping for the last 18 months. On awakening

he was SHOCKED! Shocked I tell ya!

[CLANG]

35. Fuck you, Bob.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Skittles]

82. exactly what do you disagree with?

he speaks the absolute TRUTH

[woo me with science]

39. K&R. The truth hurts. nt

[Skittles]

42. let's put it simply: THEY SUCK

and it will empower people who SUCK EVEN MORE

[Individualist]

44. K&R

[BzaDem]

47. Bob Herbert has been articulating the same inaccurate article every week.

In reality, what would actually help employment is a larger stimulus. A larger stimulus that can't pass the Senate (and never could pass the Senate). Herbert is blaming Obama when the people who are actually at fault are the Republicans who wouldn't allow a bigger stimulus (and a second stimulus).

His policy prescription (that we should have avoided HCR and instead complained for 2 years about Republicans voting against more stimulus) is assinine.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProudDad]

61. The ONLY thing that would ACTUALLY help with unemployment

is NOT more of the same crap that brought on end-stage capitalism...

What would help would be relocalization in every city and town in the nation, installing STEADY STATE Economies to support relocalization, outlaw any "endeavor" that doesn't contribute to the common good (like making fucking war toys)...

Power down and live...keep up the current ponzi scheme of an "economy" and there won't be an Earth capable of supporting large air-breathing mammals...

[BzaDem]

66. Ah, one who thinks capitalism is at its end. As Barney Frank once said, talking with you is like

talking to a dining room table, and I have no interest in doing so. Have fun predicting the end of capitalism for the next several decades.

[ProudDad]

151. I have never before predicted the end of capitalism

Until the evidence was clear and inescapable in the last 15-20 years...

You can stick your fingers in your ears and yell, "bla-bla-bla-bla" all you want...

And you won't change reality...

The reality is that your precious capitalist system has allowed human beings to foul the Earth and Air and Water nearly (or maybe completely) beyond repair...

It has served as an efficient mechanism for its few beneficiaries to pass the Earth's natural LIMIT on resource exploitation; that's what Catastrophic Global Climate Destabilization is trying to tell you.

But you keep your fingers in your ears and yell, "Bla-bla-bla-bla!" so you don't have to face the truth.

Good ole' capitalism has allowed the big-brained bipeds to create a system of resource exploitation (with toxic results to the ecosystem), turn those raw resources into toxic products (with toxic results to the workers and ecosystem) that mostly end up in a landfill within 6 months (with toxic results to the ecosystem)!!!

We need to learn to live better, not bigger. We need to POWER DOWN. We need to allow the ecosystem to heal itself and support all of Earth's creatures again.

We need to build things that fill the needs of humans AND support our ecosystem (or at least, NOT damage it). We need to learn to live within our means on a finite Earth...

Or ELSE!

Capitalism will NOT help in that effort! It's internal design is to do the opposite...

[defendandprotect]

76. Agree . . . and not the first end for capitalism... it's "failed" over and again . . .

do to its corrupt and criminal nature --

We need to overturn the trade agreements -- 500,000/700,000 jobs per month disappearing!!

[ProudDad]

149. You mean those "trade agreements"

that are created to grease the wheels of capitalism...

and help maintain a "fluid work force" of cheap labor that capitalism DEMANDS...

You expect the capitalists to remove them?

Good luck on that one...

[jeff47]

97. It's the terrible politics, not the results

"A larger stimulus that can't pass the Senate (and never could pass the Senate)"

That doesn't mean you shouldn't ask for it.

Obama should have asked for the stimulus he actually needed. And when he didn't get it, graciously accept what did get through the Senate. But he'd be in a far stronger position to ask for more stimulus, and in a far better position to tie the crappy economy to Republican obstruction.

Instead, Obama has to make the case that he was wrong before, but should get more money now. That's a much harder sell, and lets Republicans scream about "failed stimulus spending".

[BzaDem]

98. I doubt it matters politically. Voters know the economy sucks. They don't necessarily know

who asked for what and when.

[jeff47]

99. The reason they don't

The reason they don't know is that the Democrats can't scream it from the hilltops - they're the ones who have been pushing "Recovery Summer" and the like, in order to sell their "just right" stimulus.

[BzaDem]

100. I guess what I'm saying is I'm not sure that issue-based campaigns matter all that much in this

economy, regardless of who is screaming what from the hilltops. Especially issue campaigns intertwined with explaining to voters why the governing party can't pass its program due to Senate rules. Does it matter on the margins? Maybe. But I don't think it would change the overall tilt to the election results.

[jeff47]

134. It works when

It works when your opposition is running on the continued economic problems...because it demonstrates that they are causing the problems.

Instead, they can argue that we got Obama's plan, unaltered. The fact that the economy's still in the gutter is listed as a reason Obama's policies are failures, hamstringing Obama's ability to do anything about it.

We'd probably have at least one if not two follow-on stimulus bills if they had done the politics right on the first bill, which would have resulted in a much better economy, which would lead to far better fortunes in the upcoming elections. Getting the messaging right isn't just about one bill and then the election, it's about what you can get done in the time between that bill and the election.

[BzaDem]

101. .

Duplicate

[OhioChick]

49. K&R n/t

[DeSwiss]

51. K&R

There's nothing more to say. Hebert hit the nail squarely upon its head.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

53. The election hasn't even happened yet

and everybody is already looking for scapegoats and trying to assign blame- most of which is falling on President Obama. Let's GOTV and have our election and then we can sit around here and point fingers and yell back and forth at each other, o.k.? The Republicans (who have some problems of their own lest we forget) and their mouthpieces at Fox News, as well as other corporate mediawhore outlets whom are telling us day in and day out that the "Democrats are doomed" does NOT make that outcome a certainty let alone a reality IMHO.

The Republicans have no plan. They have no vision. They hate President Obama with a burning intensity and are EXTREMELY motivated to go out and vote in November. They can't vote him out of office, so they're working towards accomplishing the next best thing- electing Republicans whom will MAKE SURE that NOTHING for the average person gets done during the next two years of President Obama's Presidency and ultimately make President Obama and the Democrats look like the ones whom have failed so that they can try to regain the WH in 2012. They will also, of course, do everything in their power to make his life (and everybody else's in the process) a LIVING HELL for the next two years- hence all of their talk about subpoenas, investigations, government shutdowns, etc.

Instead of sitting around pointing fingers at each other and figuring out who's to blame for something that hasn't even happened yet (and may not even come to pass), we should be spending more time and energy fighting THE REPUBLICANS (and their enablers) instead of trying to tear down President Obama, the Democratic Party, and each other here.

Think about it.

[Qutzupalotl]

67. +1

[RetroLounge]

54. they did not respond adequately to their constituents’ most dire needs

and continue not to...

RL

[Techn0Girl]

62. Jobs would be a good Start ....

In another thread I mentioned that the Obama Administration announced 200 BILLION in new business tax cuts.
I pointed out how 200 billion dollars would provide each and every one of the 30 MILLION unemployed with $6,500 dollars they could use for job training, paying the mortgage for half a year or maybe a year's worth of health insurance. Hell with that kind of money people could get together in groups of 6 and start their own small businesses.

But no... BILLIONS to BP, Walmart and Goldman Sachs and nary a cent to the middle class.

[defendandprotect]

77. Presume that means .... "Obama/Rahma and the Wall St. 'team' trampled MEDICARE FOR ALL" -- ????

[LibDemAlways]

63. It depends on the meaning of "constituents." If a constituent is an

ordinary person trying to make ends meet, I agree that their needs are not being properly addressed. If a constituent is a wall street banker, a health insurance bigwig or other corporate CEO, their needs have taken priority. That's why the Dems are in political trouble - the perception that the party that has traditionally stood up for the little guy is ignoring him.

[defendandprotect]

75. Unfortunately, sticking with Obama and his Wall St. "team" is only going to bring more doom ---

We need to make CHANGE ourselves --

we need CHANGE in 2012 -- and a more liberal/progressive candidate!!

[dkf]

80. Herbert has it right. Our most pressing need was jobs, not health insurance reform in 2013.

Obama gave up his Presidency for this bill. End of story.

[BzaDem]

85. "Obama gave up his Presidency for this bill. End of story."

:rofl:

You are a riot. Obama's approval exceeds Reagan and Clinton at their respective points in their terms. Both were easily re-elected.

[Cherchez la Femme]

136. Regarding your '70% approval for P.O. is a lie'

And BTW regarding this post, I surely hope you are correct -- no snark there, I really do;
But I am not near as sure of this as you are! --it doesn't help but hinders a/an re/election bid when you keep throwing more and more groups of your base under the bus; acting like the Democratic Party is no longer A Big Tent,
rather A Big Buses Underside.



****Regarding your contention/"proof" as "proven" by the PollingReport.com page:
http://www.pollingreport.com/health3.htm


In the single stat you're referring to, the question is skewed. Instead of quitting after the first six words (of the SECOND part of the question, (see comments regarding truncation below)
"Creation of a single-payer system" (there should be ellipses before 'Creation').
it instead reads: "Creation of a single-payer system in which the government controls the entire health care insurance system"!

--They deliberately avoid using the term Medicare which IS approved of and which the Government DOES administer
Note that the question "(Do) you favor or oppose... Reducing federal spending on Medicare managed care programs" was opposed 2:1; and in the next subsection: "Providing subsidies to families that make less than $88,000 a year to help them purchase health insurance" was approved by Favor:67 Oppose:32 Unsure:1
So what gives?--

I repeat, for it bears repeating: Medicare IS universally approved of, much unlike the well-propagandized-against "Socialized Medicine" or "Canadian Health Care" &etc.
Eeevvillll! Booga-booga!

And by the way, the beginning of that question, "Do you favor or oppose the following? . . ." is disturbing.
Within this page, part of usual professional writing although some are generally frowned upon as not being indicative of the entire question,
and bar the last example,
the ellipses are indicative of either:
--combined responses,
--multiple following sub-questions (i.e. 'If you answered A, Then answer B, C, D/1, 2, 3 etc.');
--as indicative of a single truncated question. This is rarely seen, and begs the question why? Why not show the full, specific question used in the actual gathering of data? Red flag!;
--or one single question with *no* sub-questions, with text redacted, and inexplicably truncated & split in the middle of the question!
*MORE red flag territory, indeed monstrous flapping pennants!

Why is it the ONLY query split in the middle of one incomplete question!

At the very kindest, it was incredibly sloppy and unprofessional -- one cannot even blame McClatchy as they have other sections on that page which are passable.
Yet other than that one instance nothing else there is unprofessional, to my skimming; even the skewed questions are considered 'professional' (the nature of the Statistics Beast)
therefore it begs the questions:
What was left out? Why format this question in this particular way?
What are they hiding?

This does NOT pass the stink ('smell' is too neutral a word for this) test.


You still ignore another question on that very same page, to wit:

"Do you think the government should or should not expand Medicare to cover people between the ages of 55 and 64 who do not have health insurance?"

NBC News/Wall Street:

12/10-13/09
%Should:63 %Should Not:33 %Unsure:4


9/06
%Should:75 %Should Not:23 %Unsure:2

--note that Medicare WAS asked in above example & table but limited to "(all) people between the ages of 55 and 64 who do not have health insurance"
Do you really think the answer would have been majorly different if instead simply Medicare for All (-or- Single Payer, -or- Public Option') was used rather than the propaganda which by then was synonymous via reportage, again as previously mentioned, of "Socialized Medicine", "Canadian Health Care" etc.?


And another:
"The proposed legislation would no longer create a public health care plan administered by the federal government to compete directly with private health insurance companies." The highest stat: Not Acceptable, and as mentioned before, post the hysterical RW 'Town Hall Meetings and other assorted, wall-to-wall propaganda.

Yet another critique:
Most questions had qualifiers, asking about 'the bill that was in Congress' or 'proposals under discussion' --you know, the bill & proposals giving so much away to the Drug & Insurance Companies? Definite skewing factors.
The questions NEVER were asked about Medicare (with no qualifiers), nor Single Payer, nor Public Option!


And there are plenty more stats on that page which refute your contention of so many citizens being against the Public Option, etc. Yet you picked the one stat most loaded with troubles, ran with it and ignored he rest.


Gee, I wonder why?? :sarcasm:



Bottom line: You can't fool an actuary. We have seen and indeed have been taught --albeit in them Librul Universities-- how statistics and the syntax of the hypothesis can be modified;
again, skewed...
--sorry to seemingly overuse this word but it's the proper term! Would you rather I used, consulting Thesaurus.com: "Curve, Bent, Fake, Falsified, Fudge, Misshape, Bias, Color, Slant"? Although the last one may be less antagonistic!--
ahem, continuing: ...skewed to elicit a certain slanted response. This is taught, supposedly, to educate one to be on guard against it, but it also deliberately teaches statisticians neat little 'tricks' to use so as to please certain future, non-ethical employers.
We welcome our corporate overlords! *salaam*

Education only aims to please -- the corporations!
Yay!
:puke:








If there are typos or other errors on this post I preemptively give a hearty apology. There was much going back and adding, (my own) redacting, correcting, cut & pasting to other more appropriate areas, &etc. that there well may be errors.

Sorry.

[leschwartz]

117. Jobs should have been the job issue Obama responded to

Herbert is right.

But the Democrats have a major problem in that they supported
MFNTS for China and NAFTA, and cannot admit they were wrong in
supporting bad trade deals and have cost the US millions of
jobs, permanently.

There will not be an economic recovery in the US until these
trade policy mistakes are corrected because they are at the
core of the lack of jobs in the US. The lack of jobs affects
every other market, housing, stocks, retail, etc.

Obama has talked about growing exports 200% in five years,
which is not going to happen, is a false hope and a cynical
ploy. And even if it did happen it would not create the need
for employment in the US equal to the lack of jobs.

What Obama IS doing is to use the debate over tax policy to
work a political lever in the upcoming elections. That is his
response, along with the usual political rhetoric.

He also wasted months if not well over a year on
"bi-partisanship" approach to every issue.

How could anyone believe the GOP are willing to respond to a
bi-partisan approach?

[TexasObserver]

81. Agree with the major premise. 20 months of not being liberal enough.

Voters expected the change they were promised. When the party bogged down badly and basically threw in the towel on health care reform, it faltered. When it fell for the "deficit reduction" sucker punch, it had to take a standing eight count.

By being too solicitous of the right, the party and the president have jeopardized seats in congress that would not otherwise be at risk. It might not be too late, if they'll get serious on job creation and another stim package.

[Enthusiast]

86. Well said.

They were too solicitous of the right when they adopted their ideas for stimulus in the form of tax cuts rather than infrastructure projects. This hurt job numbers in a tangible way. It also allowed the GOP to repeat their ridiculous "The stimulus didn't work." talking point. And by adopting Republican ideas when the administration wasn't awarded a single Republican vote made the Administration look weak. It is a matter of appearances.

[deacon]

88. And mr. herbert - why are the GOP "strengthened" . Idiot. n/t

[mommalegga]

90. Yep that about somes it up.

And if the Repugs get in, it will get worse..



good times!:sarcasm:

[JJ]

91. He wants a pony

sarcasm, of course

[mdmc]

92. Health INSURANCE Reform would have to wait -

I am very sick and lack of affordable medical treatment is my top need.
This bill passed, and now my treatment is 35% more $ then it was last year.
We usually have between 3% and 6% increases each year; this year the increase was 35% (because it is profitable and legal for the health insurance companies to do so).

Now even healthy co-workers are bitching; good, working class, healthy people are bitching. Not just sick people like me that are being forced into disability.

[quiet.american]

95. Somebody invite Bob Herbert to dinner at the WH already.

Since Obama's inauguration, he's been acting like he's never been invited to the "cool kids " party, and writing unsubstantiated and unfair screed after screed.

He's full of it on this one. For instance, if Obama had "called on everyone to share in the sacrifices that needed to be made" Herbert would have excoriated Obama for breaking his promise to cut taxes for the middle-class. If Obama had said healthcare reform had to wait -- ditto. If Obama had neglected to send more resources for the war in Afghanistan, Herbert would have said he was selling out our men and women in uniform.

I wonder if Herbert is well. What he's saying here is that Obama should have done the exact opposite of what he campaigned on, and then Democrats would have been happy as a lamb with him. It makes no sense.

Edited to add:

Where Mr. Herbert says:

Well, that’s the drum the Democrats should have been pounding in the earliest days of the Obama administration, and they should have backed it up with a dramatic rebuild America infrastructure campaign and every other job-creation measure they could think of, including public works projects for the young and the poor and the hard-core unemployed.

This is where I really wonder if he's well. What does he think the Recovery Act is? And although he pays lip service to it, does Herbert realize that "every job-creation measure they could think of" was obstructed, blocked, stalled and otherwise vandalized by the Republicans? And yet, he lays the blame at the feet of Democrats who STILL managed to create/save over 3 million jobs in the middle of a bottomless-pit recession.

As for "showering money on the rich" -- where? If he's talking about TARP, the biggest loans have been paid back with interest, and a good portion of those funds also went into saving community banks across the nation. Herbert's talking about "trickle-down economics" when Obama and Democrats have done the exact opposite. Why does he think Boehner marched into bankers' offices and declared that Republicans were the only thing standing between banks and financial industry reform?

Even now, as Obama has recently reiterated his support for middle-class tax cuts being made permanent, and letting Bush tax cuts expire for the wealthy, Herbert is insisting that Democrats are doing "trickle-down economics"?

His argument simply doesn't hold water.

[blindpig]

102. k&r for an OP....

that sums things up nicely.

[leeroysphitz]

107. A government of prostitutes. Send them all home. Teach them to pay attention to the voters

instead of their wealthy friends.

[closeupready]

113. Please don't bash prostitutes, many of whom are professional, ethical and hard-working.

Thanks.

[closeupready]

114. Bob Herbert for President! Seriously, he is ALWAYS right.

K&R

[Javaman]

115. while the repukes respond to peoples stupidity. LOL nt

[Uncle Joe]

118. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Better Believe It.

[NJmaverick]

119. What utter bullshit

the Dems have a problem because they couldn't fix 8 years of Republican rule in less than 2 years (with the GOP doing everything in their power to stop them). The Dems also so the "professional left" betray them and attack them instead of the GOP.

[harun]

120. What did the GOP do to meet those needs? Filibustering every bill in Congress

didn't help them much.

[Better Believe It]

129. Ahhhh .... the old phantom "pretend we're filibustering" filibusters that Sen. Reid went along with.

As has been pointed out many times on DU by numerous posters, Reid refused to use his power under Senate rules, his rules and the Constitution of the United States to force the Republicans to engage in real filibusters and to defeat their obstructionism.

Would you anyone else here like to read some facts regarding these bogus filibusters and how they can be stopped?

I know that many are not fully and accurately informed on this matter but that's not their fault. The corporate media and Republicans have done a number on the American people making them think that nothing can be passed in the Senate without 60 votes and that actual filibusters have tied up the Senate in knots to the point that Senate business is frozen.

And some Democrats like Senate Reid have used these "pretend filibusters" as a convenient excuse for Senate inaction and paralysis.

[opihimoimoi]

132. The GOP is in a Death Spiral but in denial.....They reveal their selfish mode when they do

this NO to Everything Crap...They send endless "Nitpickers" to tell us we are Hopeless and Lost.

Thats RW projecting....it is THEY who are Hapless and Clueless...

Their actions and comments confirm....Flame and Blame is their Negative Level

[Jax]

125. K&R Outstanding!

I see the "I got mine so the rest of you shut up" brigade is here...I see the one who called for Dean supporters to be PURGED from the Democratic Party after the 2004 primaries has 'chimed' in.

Great article.

Thanks again Better Believe It.

[HughMoran]

133. More nonsense

Dig deeper, there must be even more anti-Democrat articles to be dug up and flung at the wall.

[ClarkJonathanKent]

135. Good read.

Don't agree with everything, but worth reading.

[mbee]

142. Keeping health insurance under employers is not what

I voted Obama in office for as I expected a national health plan that everyone could buy into. Although I have no intention of voting Republican I can't say I'm happy with the Democrats. They spend too much time pandering to the right instead of getting the job done. Republicans do exactly what they say they'll do no matter what!

[lonestarnot]

146. Here here!

[Stuart G]

153. While the election has not come..there is some truth here..I just

got a chance to read this. I am glad I did