Guardian UK: Creationists seek to insert their own brand of 'truth' into education

[marmar]

Thirty reasons why man is not descended from apes may seem an unlikely thing for children to learn on an educational school trip. But that's just one of the treats in store at Noah's Ark Zoo Farm, a creationist establishment near Bristol which was recently awarded a "quality badge" by the Council for Learning Outside the Classroom.

The council's deputy chief executive, Elaine Skates, defended the decision by saying she believed that "an important aim of learning outside the classroom is allowing children and young people access to education that challenges assumptions and allows them to experience a range of viewpoints."

What Skates is endorsing here, though probably unwittingly, is a notion known as "teach the controversy". The term was coined by the Discovery Institute, America's most notorious creationist organisation, as a means of arguing for the teaching of Biblical creation alongside evolution in US schools.

Operating ostensibly from the principle of free speech, its proponents argue that the purpose of education is to allow children to reach their own conclusions, as though there are no facts, and all knowledge is subjective.

Perhaps it sounds reasonable to be open-minded. But those arguing for "teach the controversy" in this area do so disingenuously – it's a convenient way of inserting their own brand of "truth" into education. .............(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/blog/2010/sep/10/creationism-education-teaching-children

[WCGreen]

1. They are right about not being descended from Apes...

We have a common ancestor.

[muriel_volestrangler]

3. We are apes

and we are also descended from apes. We are the closest species to the chimpanzees. Chimps are apes; gorillas are apes; we are closer to the chimps than the gorillas are. Therefore, it is perfectly reasonable to say we are apes, and that the common ancestor of all 3 was an ape too.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

7. Nomenclature does not work that way.

Chimps are apes. Gorillas are apes.

We are not apes.

[immoderate]

8. Not so. Look it up.

Ever come across Desmond Morris' great book, The Naked Ape? He spends a chapter clarifying the classification. We are apes, (except when observing Victorian etiquette, where chairs have "limbs.")

--imm

[RainDog]

11. true. primatologists classify humans as great apes - in the hominidae family

and refer to common chimpanzees, pygmy (bonobo) chimpanzees and gorillas as non-human apes.

Hominoidea is the actual name of the superfamily of apes that includes two families: Hylobatidae (lesser apes) and Hominidae (great apes, including humans.)

the split between the homo genus and pan genus (in the family of hominidae) occurred 3 to 5 million years ago. humans are classified as part of the homo genus. as a species we are homo sapiens.

there were homo species other than h. sapiens who lived on this earth, as well- tho they're extinct now.

Kingdom -> phylum/division -> class -> order -> superfamily -> family -> genus -> species

[muriel_volestrangler]

10. Would you claim that we are not mammals, or primates, then?

Are humans a special case, to whom none of the normal animal classifications may be applied?

Or are you claiming that apes evolved from early primates on more than one occasion? That there is some special classification for the common ancestor of humans, chimps and gorillas that isn't 'human' and isn't 'ape' either, from which the both the gorilla evolved, and the common ancestor of chimps and humans evolved, and that you only apply the classifiation to the chimp line once the human line has branched off?

[MattBaggins]

15. You would be very much wrong

We are in fact members of the superfamily Hominoidea and are apes.

[WCGreen]

17. The way I look at it is that they are our cousins...

We had a common ancestor who was neither ape nor human.

That was the point I was trying to make.

To say we descended from apes is not correct. To say that we have a common ancestor is more precise.

[immoderate]

23. We have common ancestors with dogs, too.

Not to mention amoebas.

We are on the ape branch of the tree of life. Guess what that makes us?

--imm

[Solly Mack]

2. Idiots

and they're happy to remain so and they are more than happy to spread their ignorance....because if everyone is as ignorant as they are, then they can all sit around feeling good about it.

[ck4829]

4. Just because someone says something is controversial doesn't always mean it's controversial

Nobody would consider giving equal time to the view that the Holocaust didn't happen, that Martin Luther King and the other figures in the Civil Rights movement were just uppity black people who would eventually just sit down and shut up after a while, or that slavery was a good thing; and there certainly is no controversy behind not teaching those opinions because they are just plain wrong.

This is indoctrination, plain and simple.

[RainDog]

13. this is the truth

if they want to "teach the controversy," they have to teach every creation myth of every religion - and by doing so, students would understand that these myths have no foundation in science - therefore, they do not belong in a science classroom.

creationism has no scientific data to back it up. none.

there are no scientific papers that have EVER been published in ANY scientific journal (because those journals require SCIENCE) in order to be accepted for publication, not religious bullshit and lies.

honestly, until this nation can get past this bullshit about creationism, I don't know how we can have an informed electorate - if they will believe creationist bullshit, they will believe anything b/c they do not understand what it means to look at evidence, to critically evaluate information and to discard that that is obviously false.

iow, creationism = trickle-down economics

[old mark]

5. A few years ago locally, there were periodic "debates" with a "creationist" vs an

actual scientist..the problem fewer of the real science people wanted to bother any more - it is no debate if one side has nothing real to offer and will not hear truth no matter what.

I know people who think all those dinoasur fossils and geological evidence of previous eras were placed there by god to "test our faith"...when they are shown truth , they will not see it.
It is pointless to "debate" them.

mark

[RainDog]

6. there is no controversy

other than the fact that there are a large number of people who engage in magical thinking on such a scale that it rises to the level of cult behavior.

[xfundy]

9. Donkeys and snakes can talk!

I don't know why these here libruls deny that obvious TRUTH!

/sarc

[immoderate]

12. Actually, it was god speaking through Balam's ass.

Which apparently provided a good medium for the voice.

--imm

[Fumesucker]

14. I'm guessing that Balaam had been eating a hell of a lot of beans..

[immoderate]

16. Different beans give different voices.

And there are so many kinds...


--imm

[struggle4progress]

18. "Council for Learning Outside the Classroom" is a private group

I suppose they can endorse whatever they like: simulations about the horrid dangers of falling off the edge of the flat earth, or lengthy movies about how bumblebees can't possibly fly and so neither can humans, or photodisplays of alien bodies recovered from Roswell UFOs, or whatever

But if I lived in the UK, I'd henceforth mention "Noah's Ark" whenever the "Council for Learning Outside the Classroom" came into conversation and I'd roll my eyes ands wonder why anyone took them seriously

[muriel_volestrangler]

19. It's a charity, that has responsibility for a government programme

The Council for Learning Oustide the Classroom formally assumed responsibility and leadership for learning outside the classroom on the 1st April 2009. Although still relatively new, the premise of LOtC has long been supported by many individuals and organisations over the years. The launch of the LOtC Manifesto by the Secretary of State in November 2006 marked a significant step forward in recognising and promoting the benefits of LOtC in young people’s educational attainment and social, emotional and personal development.

http://www.lotc.org.uk/Council-for-LOtC/History---Governance

http://publications.education.gov.uk/default.aspx?PageFunction=productdetails&PageMode=publications&ProductId=DFES-04232-2006

The Learning Outside the Classroom Manifesto partnership was launched by the Secretary of State for Education and Skills on 28 November 2006. The Manifesto is a ‘movement’ or joint undertaking that many different stakeholders have helped to create and to which anyone can sign up. Its aim is to ensure that all young people have a variety of high quality learning experiences outside the classroom environment.

The Manifesto is a short publication with a vision statement and high level aims. Government departments (including DCSF, Defra and DCMS), LOtC providers, local authorities, schools, youth groups and many other supporters are in the process of signing up to or ‘endorsing’ these common aims and making ‘pledges’ of practical action to support them. There is a Manifesto website with further details (where the Manifesto document can be downloaded) with signatories and pledges.

www.teachernet.gov.uk/learningoutsidetheclassroom

http://www.gem.org.uk/lotc/lotc_man/lotc_man_menu.html

Note that when you try to follow that "teachernet.gov.uk" link, it redirects you to the lotc.org.uk site. This is where state school teachers looking for visits and projects outside of the school are directed to for guidance. They have a responsibility to educate, not aid proselytising.

[GeorgeGist]

20. Bright the child who asks ...

Who created God?

[JoePhilly]

21. The funniset part of that is this ...

"its proponents argue that the purpose of education is to allow children to reach their own conclusions, as though there are no facts, and all knowledge is subjective."

They want this approach to be taken with regard to evolution, but NOT, under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES with regard to the religion into which they indoctrinate their children. Oh no. In THAT case, there is no "alternative".

Phonies.

[RainDog]

22. yeah, basically the talibornagains/fundies lie their asses off in order to brainwash kids

which, to me, is sort of like child abuse.