Let the tax cuts expire. And let's get rid of the other tax break too...

[jtuck004]

Payroll taxes, to pay for ss and medicare, are only paid on the first $100,000/yr of income. So the wealthy ALREADY get a tax break. It's unfair, and the cap on that needs to be removed. Much of their income is from other assets, like stock, with pays them a payroll-tax-free income from the labor of others who are charged the tax. Maybe SS is in such "trouble" because the greedy rich are not paying their fair share. Don't change retirement ages, make the wealthy pay their FAIR share, for a change.

The conversations need to be about removing the cap so the wealthy pay their fair share, not about how they can keep another discount others don't get. About how someone with an income of $500,000 a year gets to use their Mercedes as an expense while at the same time they get profits that take food from the kids of the single mom trying to make it on her Walmart salary.

Here's a quick article discussing effective and marginal tax rates, but Professor Luke also shows what taxes look like when the payroll taxes are deducted...

...
Finally, these numbers don’t include the Social Security/Medicare payroll taxes which all wage earners pay on incomes up to approx. $100,000, but incomes over that are exempt from payroll taxes. So, just out of curiousity, I decided to add the payroll tax number to the above numbers to get a better idea of just how big of a bite the Federal government is taking out of our paychecks.
...

The richest one percent of the population, who make more than 410
thousand dollars per year (AGI) pay an income tax rate of 22%. no more than 24%

The next top 4% of the population, earning over 160k but less than 410k, pay an income tax rate of 18% no more than 24%

The 5% of the population earning over 113k but less than 160k, pay an income tax rate of 13% no more than 19%

The 15% of the population earning over 67k but less than 113k, pay an income tax rate of 9% 16%

The 25% of the population earning over 33k but less than 67k, pay an income tax rate of 7% 14%

The 50% of the population earning less than 33k, pay an income tax rate of 3%. 10%

You can read it here...

[NutmegYankee]

1. The 67k to 113k band does pay more than 16%

I'm an engineer, and I fall into this bracket. A single filer with no house pays 17% - 19%. It pisses me off to no end to know that those useless fucks who do nothing but shift money around pay only 15% on their massive stock earnings while people like myself, who design and analyze every single item we use in society, pay more in taxes.

:grr:

I have no problem with paying a fair share. If we needed to raise the payroll tax by 1% top cover the baby boomers for Social Security, I'd gladly agree as that's the kind of society I want to live in. That said, we let the wealthy keep climbing away and classic middle class professions like engineering keep dropping.

[jtuck004]

2. See...that''s why I post this stuff. I learn things, and meet smart people.

I wondered about those numbers, but I figured people would tell me what their experience is.

We have to do something about the job-brain drain, get some serious (trillions) investment in our country happening. Teach people how to operate in a globalized society.

And I know the vast majority of people here don't have a problem with it. It's the tv commentators that used to work on Wall Street that I am sure make more than 100K a year, people in Congress who start at $170K, people in top financial jobs that make $178 million (plus bonuses, which must be necessary to insure performance) who run around talking about how THEY need a tax cut.

Makes me want to lock 'em in a room with Sarah Palin. Then....well, just leave 'em all locked up, then go home.
That would work. ;)

thank you for the post

[NutmegYankee]

4. You're welcome!

My beef with the modern economy is that engineers (obviously I have a large interest) tend to be a very critical and yet poorly paid profession. We are very skilled as a group, often delving into difficult sub fields solving technical problems and designing new products to create wealth, but the financial class looks down upon us as "Prima Donnas" and we are paid far below other professions that require a large degree of knowledge. Add to that the corporate push to constantly reduce manpower and engineering feels the squeeze. Our only saving grace is robots cannot answer the questions we do. You can say make a product like this or that, but inevitably there will be a flaw or defect and you will have to ask the question "Is it still OK or do I need to repair or replace it?" I myself answer that question daily for a large variety of problems.

One thing engineers don't do well is politics. Herbert Hoover was a professional engineer, and his quote is among one of my favorites:

It is a great profession. There is the satisfaction of watching a figment of the imagination emerge through the aid of science to a plan on paper. Then it moves to realization in stone or metal or energy. Then it brings jobs and homes to men. Then it elevates the standards of living and adds to the comforts of life. That is the engineer's high privelege.
The great liability of the engineer compared to men of other professions is that his works are out in the open where all can see them. His acts, step by step, are in hard substance. He cannot bury his mistakes in the grave like the doctors. He cannot argue them into thin air or blame the judge like the lawyers. He cannot, like the architects, cover his failures with trees and vines. He cannot, like the politicians, screen his shortcomings by blaming his opponents and hope that the people will forget. The engineer simply cannot deny that he did it. If his works do not work, he is damned. That is the phantasmagoria that haunts his nights and dogs his days. He comes from the job at the end of the day resolved to calculate it again. He wakes in the night in a cold sweat and puts something on paper that looks silly in the morning. All day he shivers at the thought of the bugs which will inevitably appear to jolt his smooth consummation.
On the other hand, unlike the doctor his is not a life among the weak. Unlike the soldier, destruction is not his purpose. Unlike the lawyer, quarrels are not his daily bread. To the engineer falls the job of clothing the bare bones of science with life, comfort and hope.
No doubt as years go by people forget which engineer did it, even if they ever knew. Or some politician puts his name on it. Or they credit it to some promoter who used other peoples money with which to finance it. But the engineer himself looks back at the unending stream of goodness that flows from his successes with satisfactions that few professions may know. And the verdict of his fellow professionals is all the accolade he wants.
- Herbert Hoover
The Profession of Engineering (from his memoirs)

I just wish more of us were liberals...

[Dappleganger]

6. My husband is an ME...

hope you don't mind if I show him your posts. Thanks.

[NutmegYankee]

7. You're most welcome to show him.

I'm a MechE also.

[demigoddess]

3. and end the wars and bring the troops home, all of them

and close some bases overseas. Stop 'incentivizing' companies. Make them fall or stand on their own. Make laws to regulate business practices.

[customerserviceguy]

5. You want the well-off to pay a 'fair share'?

Stop pretending that there's a separate "trust fund", and put Social Security (and Medicare, for that matter) into the general budget. Then, the progressive income tax pays all the burdens of those two programs, instead of solely a tax on work.