If You Are Not Afraid, You Are Not Paying Attention

[McCamy Taylor]

In 1928, the newly legalized National Socialist German Worker’s Party, aka the Nazi Party won just 2.6% of the vote, which netted them 12 seats (out of 491) in the German Parliament. In 1930, thanks to the Depression, massive unemployment and business failures, Hitler’s party got 18.3% of the vote and become the second major party in the Reichstag. By 1932, the ongoing economic crisis combined with corporate money, Hitler’s eloquent speeches, the boogeyman of Communism and a fear of domestic political violence (often inflicted by Nazi Party members themselves) propelled the National Socialist Party to first place. Illegal political party to dominant political party in four short years---

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Party

Could not happen here, right? We do not have the necessary ingredients, like a depression with high unemployment and business failures driving people to despair and desperation…

Oh, wait, we do. Well, there is no corporate money behind the far right, and we all know that you can not win an election in this country without lots and lots of money, the kind that you can only get nowadays from billionaires…

Like the oil industry’s Koch brothers and Wall Street. Ok, but the far right has no one with the charisma of Adolph Hitler, no one that speaks to the ordinary, undereducated, underpaid, disgruntled American worker…

No, that’s not right. The right is cultivating a whole garden of little Hitlers, folks like Palin and Beck and Limbaugh. Good thing there is no boogeyman like the communist party to make people give up their civil liberties…

Oh, I forgot about Muslims, the new Red (Crescent) Scare. We have given up almost all the marbles for them. Never mind, one thing we absolutely do not have in this land of law and order is a problem with political violence, right wing fanatics intimidating the weak or threatening the lives of our elected leaders, so that ordinary citizens forget about compassion and turn to anyone who will promise law and order….

It is very old recipe, handed down from generation to generation of corporate fascists in this country, the very same ones who financed Hitler.

http://www.reformed-theology.org/html/books/wall_street/chapter_07.htm


Wall Street was an early U.S. investor in German fascism. Wall Street has done more than anyone else to engineer this recession and keep it going by destroying our retirement accounts, stealing our homes and shutting down small business, which creates a disproportionate share of US jobs. Wall Street does not care what happens to this country ten years from now. Wall Street wants to turn a quick cash profit and retire to some island paradise. That’s why they are called banksters

Big Oil is also working against a deadline. Their product will run out soon. Before that happens, the world will switch fuels. That means the Saudis and Exxon and Henry Kissinger and the Koch brothers will be out of a job. Before that happens, they plan to squeeze every last dollar they can from us, even if it means a Road Warrior style future in which the world falls into chaos when the oil runs out. The Rockefellers’ Standard Oil was in on the action in 1932 Germany, and Big Oil is one of the big players in the right wing coup. We all know how Oil and Energy price gouged the country for eight years under Bush and how they created two foreign wars which have drained federal coffers and how their artifically high oil prices crippled a variety of domestic industries, like manufacturing, retail sales and travel, leading to a further loss of U.S. jobs. Like Wall Street, Big Oil is multinational. After they have drained the last drop of our life’s blood and gnawed on our bones, they will retire to Dubai along with Dick Cheney.

What will our country look like when they are done? Maybe like this?




It is going to take more than a vote to save this country. It is going to take political contributions, volunteer efforts, letters to the press and Congress. Democracy takes a lot of work by a lot of people. That is why it is called democracy.

[TheWraith]

1. Believe me, some of us have considered this possibility.

It's why I believe in being a heavily armed liberal.

[EXneoCON]

42. Right there with you, TheWraith...

[Dappleganger]

52. +10000

Same here.

[66 dmhlt]

61. Actually crossed my mind right after her RNC speech

And no - it is not PhotoShopped. It's from the CNN slideshow the day after Sister Sarah gave her acceptance speech at the RNC convention. It appears about 10 seconds or so from the end (they use a countdown timer):
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/conventions/multimedia/rnc.day3/index.html

[Dappleganger]

66. That is a bit scary...

nice find.

Welcome to DU, btw!

:hi:

[defendandprotect]

68. Looks like a signal -- we used to see this often with W --

[earth mom]

96. Wow-that is some evil Hitler-esque photo you've got there! Palin is scary indeed!

:scared:

[Ghost Dog]

110. Image saved for future employment/deployment.

Many thanks, 66 dmhlt.

I've been keping a close eye on this, um, phenomenom for quite some time now, thanks to DU.

[EXneoCON]

133. NOW it's been Photoshopped....

Hey, it's what everyone was thinking...

[66 dmhlt]

142. Well done ...

The Teahadist Hateriots in the Teapublican Party are going to shorten the time of the Godwin Law down to opening remarks

And rightfully so, with the vile bile they endlessly spew!

[happygoluckytoyou]

70. ON THE BRIGHT SIDE.... DOESN'T SOMEONE COME IN AND REBUILD US AFTER THE DESTRUCTION? IRONMAN?

[SteveM]

83. Yes, if the bastards are that bad, you have to question why anyone would favor...

...gun control.

Incidentally, I am not particularly scared or afraid of this movement; I think fear is what they want from "us." Since I don't feel it, they will have to try harder.

[RaleighNCDUer]

89. Don't worry. They will. nt

[SteveM]

98. Yep. Who are those complaining about bullies? The bullied.

[closeupready]

95. +1

n/t

[Papa Boule]

103. Not just a possibility, but a probability

One big reason is the fragmentation of the media and the lack of a Fairness Doctrine. Facts and even humor can't get through anymore, now that groups are insular and self-reinforcing with their own exclusive information/propaganda sources.

For example, in today's environment, Joseph Nye Welch's public shaming of Joseph McCarthy would never be seen by those who needed to see it the most.

We're just comforting ourselves with the idea that Jon Stewart or Keith Olbermann or some blogger or columnist (or even us commenters) really told 'em and straightened them out. The messages -- and reality, and facts -- don't get through anymore. At all.

Add an economic crisis (and one's coming, much bigger than we've seen so far) and we're in for rough times.

[Raksha]

105. You are so right! The corporate control of the media is the single greatest threat to democracy

in this country, even counting the large DINO population in Congress, the neocons and banksters like Rahm Emmanuel and Geithner in the Obama administration, the Republican-owned voting machines, etc.

Re "For example, in today's environment, Joseph Nye Welch's public shaming of Joseph McCarthy would never be seen by those who needed to see it the most.

"We're just comforting ourselves with the idea that Jon Stewart or Keith Olbermann or some blogger or columnist (or even us commenters) really told 'em and straightened them out. The messages -- and reality, and facts -- don't get through anymore. At all."

If the teabaggers only knew how they were being used and abused and lied to on a daily basis by the corporatocracy they'd never put up with it. But they don't know and they WON'T know.

A few token progressives like Jon Stewart and Keith Olbermann on the air don't have anything like the reach of the Great Wurlitzer, aka the Republican Noise Machine. Not even close. And the teabaggers don't listen to them anyway, nor do they read the liberal blogosphere. They have already been conditioned by their handlers to hate and distrust liberals, and most of them are too stupid to think for themselves.

I have been paying attention, and I am afraid. What makes me even more afraid is that I despair of the truth EVER getting through to the masses...not as long as "they" own the media.

[Papa Boule]

123. And we haven't even seen corporations tap their vast wealth to control narratives in elections yet

But they will. Now that they have been given the power, they will.

It's looking gloomy ahead, but chin up -- at least we know what's coming.

[Ghost Dog]

111. That is a very, very strong and extremely significant point,

which I shall certainly be repeating everywhere I can, Papa Boule.

[Papa Boule]

124. By all means, do, and thanks.

[REP]

2. You see Nazis, and propose stopping them with sharply-written letters?

That's adorable.

[pscot]

4. +1

[unblock]

6. good point, sharply-colored gifs are far more effective!

[REP]

7. Website postings would have taken out entire Panzer divisions

Blitzkrieg vs Blogkrieg - I weep to think of the carnage that could have been.

[unblock]

27. blogkrieg!

:rofl:

too bad the internet hadn't been invented yet.
we only had albert einstein when we could have had albert gore!

[pnwmom]

10. No. But if people on the left wake up and speak up and VOTE

we can stop this from happening.

[REP]

11. So adorable.

Really. Squee!

[McCamy Taylor]

14. I agree. Voting is adorable. Unlike apathy and despair which are anti-democratic.

Apathy and despair are some of the corporate fascists' favorite weapons of political mass destruction. I list a few of them here

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/McCamy%20Taylor/498

[bobburgster]

97. You make very valid points.....

in your link. Voting is a strong weapon, that should never be forgotten when things look bleak.

[Bongo Prophet]

34. Not as adorable as your avatar.

kirara! my favorite two tailed demon cat.
Our kitteh with that name passed on this summer.
A sweetie she was.

Now back to your reindeer games!

^__^

[cyclezealot]

21. They own the air waves and poison minds.

Wake up, when TV puts most of us asleep.

[molly77]

51. It has happened

Started with Bush being appointed President in 2000. It was said at the time, that it would be too upsetting for the country to find out how many votes there were in Fl for Gore. Well, in retrospect, it would have been better for the country if we had fair elections.Gore won despite the election having lots and lots of problems. Read bradblog and the section on elections here at DU. Can't have a democracy when elections are rigged.

Don Seigleman tried to do something about it. Phil Donahue was anti war and was axed. Rosie O'Donnell was questioning 9/11 and was pushed out of her job. Amy Goodman in an interview with Brian Lamb asked the question, "What would be the difference if we had state media?"

TARP was also an indication of a fascist govt. WE can't find out what happened to all the money "donated" to bail out the banks.2.2 trillion "lost" from DOD before 9/11. Did anybody ever look for the "lost" money? Laws help corporations, Wall Street and the banks..not US.Now our govt. wants to up the age for social security. What happens to people who have paid in all their lives?

We are fascist now.Hitler promoted clean living and a healthy environment. anti smoking. organic food. He killed Jews, gypsies and gays. The US govt kills brown people who have oil in the soil.I think Hitler was more humane in his fascism than WE are.

[truedelphi]

82. We;lcome to DU... As far as

The situation leading up to TARP, have you been abe to catch the one hour "docu drama" played on the Money channel over the last few weeks?

Apparently Paulson pushed Lehman Bros into bankruptcy, if that version of events can be believed. He told the LB people that they needed to secure 25 billion bucks to help with their toxic asset position, that it could not come from the Federal Government but must be offered by their competitors. They did it - got assurances of that money.

They also got Barclay to issue intent to purchase - only hold up with that was that according to the laws of England, where Barclay is located, they would need it to come to a stockholder vote. But the Federal Governmnet via Paulson was forcing Lehman Bros to have all this happen by that Monday night at Midnight - and Barclay simply didn't have the time to alert shareholders and do the vote.

LB asked for a government issued loan to "backstop" the situation - Paulson refused. According to Paulson, LB going down would make the system safer - instead we had a catastrophic situation on ACCOUNT of LB going down.

And it all could have gone otherwise had it not been for the "guidance" of Hank Paulson.

I have no idea why Paulson is still alive, considering the number of lives he destroyed. He not only destroyed a 639 billion dollar firm, he brought about this cataclysm, and then maneuvered taht cataclysm into a TARP procedure. And when you look at P's connections to Goldman Sachs and AIG, you have to wonder why he is not in jail.

[frylock]

84. vote for what?

i've been voting against my entire life. sick and fucking tired of it too.

[REP]

106. The UN to UnNazi the world forever?

[McCamy Taylor]

13. Peaceful protest work, too. But violent protest helps the corporate fascists

who can exploit the population's fear of domestic violence (any kind of domestic violence) to further their agenda. Be very careful of anyone who advocates violence in the pursuit of peace and equality. In my experience, they are usually undercover police.

[Jackpine Radical]

50. THAT is the Goddam truth.

Violence to justify violence.

And I have had the exact same thoughts you explored in the OP.

[nemo137]

17. He sees Nazis, at the stage they were in about 1925, and proposes stopping them with letters.

I mean, shit, he outlined the NSDAP's electoral history. He's looking at the time where they won a few percent of the vote appealing to the worst, most conspiracy-loving parts of the population, and telling us to back the Social Democrats (to continue the analogy), since we've not gotten to the point where the scary-ass elimininationists can take over, and since we have the example from history.

[Flying Squirrel]

24. So how would you have stopped the Nazis in 1925?

[Diclotican]

26. Flying Squirrel

Flying Squirrel

Wel, if someone had killed Adolf Hitler, Hoess, Dr Gobbels, Goering and a few otherw, who made up the then "top ten" of the NSDAP party, one could have destroyed the party for the foresable future

On the other hand, it could have meant, other on the right, who was not easy to work with, also would have had the chance to get into power, but at least, we would not have gotten Hitler into the power, a power he used to kill millions and millions of more or less innocent peopole..

Diclotican

[Flying Squirrel]

35. Ok, but hindsight is 20/20. We don't know what the future will bring -

So are you really suggesting that someone should start killing the likes of Glenn Beck? Is that really the answer? And could there not have been some less violent ways to stop the Nazis in the beginning, if people had known what was to come? If they had had some history to learn from, like we do? I think it could have been stopped without having to resort to "killing the bad guys", if people had had history to learn from like we do. In any event, advocating the murder of anyone is probably not gonna fly here, if that's what anyone had in mind.

[Diclotican]

43. Flying Squirrel

Flying Squirrel

Off couse, hindsight is allways 20/20, and I am not advocate the killing of Glenn Beck en all... In fact I do not belive anyone is worth killing, better put them into mental institution where they belong, to be treated for the madness they are using, to get power.. If Hitler had been admited to a mental institution in the 1920s, he would posible never been given a free pass before he got into power, becouse the "money" who was behind him, from the start to allmoust the end (they was dispanding all ties to Hitler from 1943-44 and forward to the end in 1945) would have turned away from NSDAP, and the party would have been disvolved to a historic note by 1933.... NSDAP was in many way HITLER's PARTY, and withouth him to rule it, the fighing inside the party would have teared it apart, in a more leftwing part, and a hardcore rigt-wing party...

No, Im not advocating that we should kill anyone, humans is far more worth than just a bullet or two, in fact I belive Beck to be a clear case of a man who have deep psycological problems, and should be treated for it, not been alowed to be used to give a voice to the madness, the right-wing in US is given him.. He might not know it itself, but the right wing in US is using him, and when he finaly is a wreack, and posible is killing himself, or someone else he will be trown aside as residude and nothing worth anymore.. And that is sad, becouse deep inside him, I belive he to be a honest man, who might be shamefull about it all.. But as many with deep psyk problems, he is kind of in denail about it all..

On the other hand, Glenn Beck could just be an asshole, and a first class actor, but I am not sure a healty mental man/woman can claim what he claim, and be healty.... It msut be a form of ilness behind it all

But not EVERYONE that is claiming more and more outlandish claims about the current administration can be a mental case?.. I know US is a big country, with millions and millions of pepole over 300 mill last time it was counted i guess... But can it be THAT many cases of mental illness, in US? As an forreigner, I am mindblowed by some of the things I read about US.. Is this the same country I once was really thinking about emigrate to as a young man? And who I admired deeply, to the B*** got into Office in 2000...

Diclotican

[MedicalAdmin]

53. Maybe violence isn't the answer...

But I can't help but think that if FDR had Prescot Bush shot for treason for running shiploads of oil to the Nazi's AFTER the war started that lot's rather than giving him a stern talking to, that lots of future problems would have been avoided.

If power refuses to listen to words then perhaps actions are called for. The question is what actions. MLK and Ghandi would simply call for and get huge general strikes and boycotts and cut off the bastards income. But that won't work in the media saturated USA, so does anyone have an idea?

[Diclotican]

81. MedicalAdmin

MedicalAdmin

I don't know the answer what to do, even tho I have the suspection that if FDR had Prescot Bush shot for treason, the coup he wanted, with many right wingers of that day, would clearly go under the consept of treason in FDRs day I guess... Even today, trying to made a coup against an elected leader is treason, and therefore quit illegal... FDR was to sivil in his actions and let Prescot off the hook, after a stern lecture about respecting the law of the land... I belive US could have get off a lot of future problemer becouse of it...

Sometimes you need the treath of more than word, to get thing don.. Why you do thing the working man in Europe get their paid hollyday, and welfare system?.. By asking kind to the powers, to give them anything?.. It happend both by word, and by violence and by sitting down, and negotate form a point of power. It tend to powerfull, to make a general strikes, and a boycot of trade if they dosen't want to play ball with you....

It wil work in US, as it have worked in all other country it have been used, but that means you have to work togheter, if you managed to get togheter, and fight for your rigt... Regardness of what the media want you to belive, the working man, and woman have a lot of power to shange things.. If you work togheter that is...

And today, with all the technology who are there, a great general strike, and boycots of everything you wanted to change would force the big powers, to listen to the little man... If Ghandi and Marx, and others on the left, could manage to build ten of thousands, who wanted to boycot a product, or to just sit down, and dosen't want to work to "the man". Then, with all the powers you have on your fingertips today, you could breake the back on the big economical powers, in minutes... And the big players know it, and fear you, but keep you all, in a form off servitue.. As long as the working man/woman is quit, and is fearfull of the consequenses if they do demostrate, or make a general strike or a boycot to tell the powers to be, that enough is enough, they wil have their money.. But in the end, when enough IS enough, even the richest man on earth could not defend himself against the tide...

And that is a secret they want to keep from the american working man, the fact that THEY are afraid about you, your power your ability to take back everything they have taken from you.... They would not have a DIME, if it was not becouse YOU, and the rest of america, who was afraid of telling the powers, that enough is enough... And that is the reason, most americans, at the outside, want to live in servitue, rather than as free men and woman...

Diclotican

Diclotican

[newspeak]

60. actually, I think the German people should have stepped up when Hitler

had his own brownshirts murdered. We know there came a point in time, maybe when it was the murder of the brownshirts and the public execution of the white rose, that those germans who would have spoke out now feared.

I find it quite orwellian that the party was neither "socialist" or "workers" party. Afterall, Hitler murdered socialists, murdered unionists--but he loved Henry Ford, loved the industrialists and some in this country really loved him--as we know money talks and they sure gave him enough to bankroll his agenda.

I find it interesting that Hitler, does have some similar beliefs of the wingnuts--Hitler outlawed abortion, was pro-racism, homophobic, anti-darwinism, and destroyed literary and music works and he was a traditionalist, also a so-called christian.

[paparush]

74. So, if we apply this model to current day?

[Diclotican]

92. paparush

paparush

I am not sure what to do, to kill a man just becouse he is talking shit, is wrong.. And illegal in most of the world....

And as I said, the best had to be to put this persons where they belong, in a mental institution, where they can get some medical help for their illness.... New medicine can made wonders

Diclotican

[Ghost Dog]

113. Aha. "Special Ops".

Aka highly-trained well-focused "terrorist" actions.

Hmmm.

Oh, wait... :think:

(edit: Hi, Diclotican :) )

(The Spanish Constitution, btw, in one of the very first articles, asserts that violence is an exclusive prerogative (a 'monopoly') of the State).

[Diclotican]

118. Ghost Dog

Ghost Dog

Hello Ghost Dog;)

Wel, that should be the case of every country with respect for itself, to have the right to use violence as an exlusive prerogative for the STATE only.... In modern times, political parties, with an armed wing of sorts, have allways been a danger to public law and order.. In most of europe, it have been the same a explusive prerogative for the STATE only, to have the posibility to use violence.. And have also been disgussed in length for many centuries by scholars, who was disgussing who had the right to use violence... but untill the 12th century, it was not the STATE who had the right, or more to the point, the posibility to use explusive violence, but rather the bigger landlords, like dukes and barons, who often had large armies, who often was bigger, and better trained than the Kings knighs was... But as the different national states was starting to grow up, the principle of state sanctioned violence inside a area, was made more and more a reality, even tho the barons and dukes up to the 1400s had their knigs, and their armies who could opponente if the kings was not in agreement with the nobles... In the end, the arm race in the 1400s, and later killed of most of the armies, they was just to expensive to field for most, and in most cases he STATE often had enough power to give them enough peace to do sucess in other ways... But long before this happend, the principle was that just the prince of the land, a king or emperor, was in the clear, when to use execcive violence to stop violence from others... And the law makers of the middle ages, had the ability to disguss it in details, and for lengts, when a prince had the right to use violence, and when the big lords of the land, have to field a army, against the king.. Specally in England, who by 1200s had a form of social contract between the nobles, and the king, it was stated pretty clearly, what the king have the right to do, and not to do.... Specailly what he dosen't was not able to do anymore... And the King had to sign it all.. no room for negotations at all...

I guess the reason the spaniards from day one, have in their constitution the asserts that violence is an exlusive prerogative, a monopoly of the state have something with the history of Spain.. Specially by the history of the fallangist, and facist organizations who had ruled the country since 1939... And the spaniards I guess, is little tutchy about it all...

On the other hand, we have US, where more or less private companies, have taken a big role in privatize the army, aka the exclusive preregroative of the State away from the STATE. This is a road few other country in the Europe is willing to take, we have a lot of knowlegde about it, and nothing about it, is nice... Organizations like Xe, or Blackwater under another name, is a danger to the peace in a country, and the powers behind it, _wil_ use it, against a lawfull government, when they are strong enough... Maybe not today, maybe not tomorow, but if they are not de-armed, and the powers behind demasked, they WIL try to tople your president.. Again, maybe not this one, but a later one... Or maybe they are gearing up for a coup against your current President?.. Many still belive a ring-wing administration is the right thing, and in some sircles I guess, that even a coup against the elected president, is not off the table at all... After all, they tried it against FDR, allready in 1933.. But was busted.. Are the US republic so lucly this time around?

Diclotican

[EXneoCON]

45. WWII...

...sixteen years earlier?

[Javaman]

56. Sign of the times..

You have to understand something very fundamental about Germany in the late 20's.

They were in the deepest of deep throws of depression. It was much worse than ours. Due to the WWI reparations, the German economy was doing all it could to stay afloat. And frankly, it didn't even do that. People taking wheelbarrows full of money to buy a loaf of bread.

Hitler came about promising a lot of things to the German public, mostly in the form of restoring pride in them. He was a mild lunatic back then, but the people were so desperate, they wanted anyone that spoke of hope rather then entropy.

Don't get me wrong, he was always a fucking nut racist, but the full on gravity of that didn't come till the mid 30's. Until that point, he began his move toward fascism as a way to restore the economy. He did so by giving more and more power to the corporations.

While many famous German corps from that era still exist today, the various CEO's that initially supported hitlers economic and social reforms later denounced them much to their own peril and wound up in concentration camps.

This is very much a massive generalization as to what was going on in Germany during that time. Further detail would require hours of discussion.

However, if you are interested, there is a fantastic book dealing with the social and economic situation in pre, during, and post war Germany. It focuses on mainly the economy and the social aspect of hitlers rise to power. Its called, "Seduced By Hitler. The Choices of a Nation and the Ethics of Survival". It's a brilliant well researched book.

I would also recommend a fasinating book by Sinclare Lewis, "It can't happen here". This book alone reads like a manaul for what the tea bag morons are using for their platform.

[RaleighNCDUer]

93. Yep. And even though he had laid it all out in "Mein Kampf"

the book is virtually unreadable and probably not one person in a thousand who ever got it made it past the first chapter, except for 'true believers' (and probably damn few of them as well).

So he literally took the country by surprise.

Another book I recommend is Mayer's "They Thought They Were Free".

[Diclotican]

119. RaleighNCDUer

RaleighNCDUer

Have read parts of the book, and what a book it is, was curious about it, but have to say, it was a large sum of shit the whole book.... And I understand why no one understood what Hitler really meant, with his rambling about everything from race to vegetarian diet... Not to say, what he wanted to do, if he ever was allowed into power... Some who really read the book, warned against Hitler, and was told to shut up, becouse of fearmongering.. One of them, who read Main Kampf was Winston Churchill, or he read parts of it, enought to make him a dangrous opponent of everything Hitler was standing for... Something he was talking anytime anywhere he had the posibility to do... And Chamberlain was in the meantime given Hitler everything he wanted, left, right and center, to Hitler had his "block" to start a war with.... He lived excactly enough to se the London Blitz (who by the way is 70 year since now) and is said to have died of a broken heart.. He had really belived Hitler to be a man who one could reason with...

Most members of NSDAP, or any of the NAZI party organisations was not able to read the whole book, and to understand what was inside the book... Many of them just bought the book, to have in their bookshelfs, so they was safe if the government was there to look into their apartment, and for something to take out, when nabours was over for a cup of coffee.. Few, if anyone who silent was accepting the new regime, really understand what this regime was really about.... 12 year after, they discovered it...

Diclotican

[AlinPA]

109. "It Can't Happen Here" is being repeated in real life now. Sarah Palin = Buzz Windrip.

[Javaman]

134. Yep and like in the book the tea party morons are her "patriot minute men". nt

[AlinPA]

138. Exactly. Palin and "Buzz" both wrote books full of pablum that appeals to their ignorant followers.

[Javaman]

139. What I liked most about that book was...

at the beginning of each chapter Lewis writes "quote" from Buzz.

Each quote reads almost verbatim from some of the screeds of the ultra right wing today.

[AlinPA]

141. Yes they do sound the same. Also the "Minutemen" characters are very much like today's

teabaggers: ignorant, pig headed, anti-intellectual angry slobs.

[RaleighNCDUer]

91. Cancelling reparations from WW1, which would have put their government

on a sound financial standing, preventing or subduing the rise of the armed militias on the left and right - they had communists and fascists shooting it out in the streets of Berlin. The severe reparations put the German people in immediate distrust of their fledgling democracy because it was imposed on them by the French and British democracies (the US pretty much kept out of it after Congress refused to allow us to join the League of Nations).

That might have worked in that time, under those circumstances.

[Javaman]

135. I agree...

The French were looking to permanently cripple Germany. Thus protecting their Eastern border. There was no mystery behind the French wanting to be the dominate power in Europe, but due to the strict enforcement of reparations, the Germans (prior to hitler) began to view the French more and more negatively as each year passed.

Like many historians agree and me along with them, WWII was nothing more than a delayed continuation of the first world war. Technically speaking, the period in between the wars, could be looked upon as some what of a "cold war".

[mmonk]

23. Or a horse.

But instant communication I think trumps horseback of which Paul Revere was limited to.

[defendandprotect]

69. Right -- purpose of corporate fascism is to destroy the democratic process -- and it's worked --!!

Not much left of it --

We need an awake and aware citizenry to unite --

elites are united up, down, sideways and every which way -- and public isn't!

[pnorman]

3. It's an outside chance, but it should always be borne in mind.

But for the here and now, let's all GOTV!`

[Dal]

5. I agree

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sy0tT7H-4EA

[puebloknot]

8. K&R Making Hitler talk on this board will generally get you ridiculed.

I was in Germany, as an American army brat, ten years after the war. There was still rubble in various places (particularly in the French zone, which was less affluent than the American zone, just across the Rhine (Mainz and Wiesbaden), and people were living in gardening shacks.

But the Germans were too civilized for it to happen there!

Thanks for this. It's important.

[Javaman]

136. That must have been interesting to live there during that time.

I have a friend that was "east german", he told me that in many of the eastern block warsaw pack countries much of the WWII damage was still evident decades after the war.

[chervilant]

9. Time to Wake Up.

I've been a closet economic anthropologist since my days at University. I assert that we humans are our own worst enemy, because we blithely and greedily engage in economic behaviors without examining the import or the impact of such behaviors. Our economic behaviors have become more important and more influential than ALL of our other behaviors, comprising the framework within which we do all things political or spiritual. Please note that I mean WE as in our entire species.

Humans are now a systems-stressing economic resource, yet we seem incapable of seeing the forest for the trees. All other economic resources are being taxed beyond the system's capacity, yet we sustain a rhetoric that smacks of the blame and shame game--warring with one another, blaming others without examining our own roles--when we should be seeking ways to fix the problem.

A great philosopher once predicted that capitalism would eventually collapse, and that economic behavior would evolve into a more egalitarian, cooperative means of production. Capitalists, politicians, and others with a vested interest in maintaining an oppressive status quo promoted a pejorative meme that taints this great man's scholarship to this very day. We should take note of the enormous energy expended to denigrate this man's collected works.

We too can attack Karl Marx on the strength of his detractors' red herring meme, or we can emulate his courageous endeavor to examine human economic behavior as it exists today and envision the changes that MUST occur if we are to progress as a species. Do we have to throw out the baby (capitalism) with the bath water (Corporate Megalomaniacs)? Is communism the inevitable alternative to capitalism, and would that really be a bad thing? Can we continue to subsume our spiritual selves in servitude to the almighty dollar?

Change is often a big scary barrier to personal growth, isn't it?

Still, as another great philosopher said, "We MUST be the change we wish to see in the world."

So, this starts with me. My awareness of the core issues described herein above shapes and informs my activism every day. I refuse to buy into the divisiveness that the Corporate Megalomaniacs promote to keep us from examining these real issues, and that includes divisiveness predicated by education, status, or any other hierarchical measure. We The People are on the verge of a major change--perhaps cataclysmic--and we have the intellectual capacity and the spiritual framework within which to propel ourselves into an amazing future.

FURTHERMORE, to those who vilify, parody, ridicule, or otherwise denigrate the unfortunates among us who are factually challenged, please bear in mind that at least 40% of our adult population is functionally illiterate. Of those who can 'read,' another 60% cannot comprehend what they've read, nor can they give a defensible synopsis of the material they've read. Many of these unfortunates cling tenaciously to their world views, because fear--and the other visceral emotions that drive them--is a great motivator. Furthermore, any measurable self esteem in these pitiful individuals is often a thin veneer over a seething cauldron of insecurity and doubt.

The Corporate Megalomaniacs know this and use it well, both through their propaganda tools (the MSM, lobbyists, and paid political hacks) and through their skilled sustenance of the 'wealth carrot meme.' Moreover, the Corporatists continue to divide and conquer, regularly promulgating their partisan red herrings (which quite a number of us snarf regularly--regardless of party affiliation).

That old chestnut, "Ignorance is Bliss" carries new meaning for me. Perhaps, "controlled ignorance is bliss" might be a better way to look at it. I beg the non-ignorant among us to focus your energy and your analytical skills on ways we can help the unfortunates among us (variously labeled Teh Stoopid, teabaggers, right-wingers, DINOs and blue-dogs) to understand who is the real threat to their financial and social well-being.

Oh, and--at the risk of getting more backlash from some for whom this post resonates--our networking efforts need to intensify. Our efforts to work together to effect change MUST focus on stopping the exponential success of the Corporate Megalomaniacs, or we'll find ourselves hiding behind closed doors, avoiding any mention of a world view that challenges the controlling uber wealthy elite. Actually, how many of us are already there?

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.

Margaret Mead

(And, yes, I've posted this herein on another thread, but I feel it bears repeating.)

[planetc]

30. Hear, hear. Also, Rah! n/t

[truebrit71]

46. +1. Very interesting...

...and depressing at the same time..I am beginning to get the feeling that like global warming it is already past the tipping point and all we can do now is try and lessen the inevitable impact...

[felix_numinous]

78. +10000 I like your post.

Human beings can get lured into so many traps of our own making. Power in all of it's forms has become so concentrated and centralized that corruption is a natural result. Any social system degrades over time and runs it's course, and some form of abuse of power is the result.

We have had many opportunities as a country to decentralize power, in the form of social programs that redistribute wealth, education and healthcare, and labor laws. As these checks and balances are dismantled, the pure unbridled greed is unleashed on the world, in the many forms of clandestine groups with no oversight, plus increasingly powerful police/incarceration/surveillance/media complexes meant to preserve their status quo.

Our voyeuristic society has mistakenly taken ourselves out of the equation-- and forgotten our great power--our humanity. That is the whole idea, to convince people to give everything away to them and making it look completely normal and acceptable :) Decentralized power means self empowerment, which results in less fear and hoarding-- it is not a 'power over' but a 'power with'.

I am seeing more and more people waking up, and celebrate every time.

[the redcoat]

12. one big problem i see

that's been touted as "technological advancement," is the switch of all information sources from analog to digital.

when tv signals all went digital, i said "oh shit" because that means if someone decided to declare martial law, they could essentially just turn off all our TVs, the same most likely goes for high-speed internet (and who has dial-up technology anymore???)

this is the main reason why i refuse to switch to HD radio. many of us now only have radios in our cars, its good to have one sure source of analog signal.

the other big one is digital phone technology a la vonage.


if everything you own is digital, that means it would be that much easier to put you in the dark ages should the unthinkable happen.

[Rozlee]

55. Hah! YOU'VE hit the nail on the head!

Sinclair Lewis may have been onto something when he wrote "It Can't Happen Here", but he never could have conceived a future America like ours or he would have changed the title of his book to, "It Could Happen Here Except That Everybody's A Bunch of Zombified Drools Sitting in Front of Their TVs, Watching 'Dancing With the Stars' and 'Entertainment Tonight' To See What Brangelina and the Stars of Twilight Are Up to Now To Give a Damn About Anything Except Watching Their Hundredth Rerun of 'Seinfeld'". People have lost their homes and their jobs. They've seen banks close; they've seen the economy collapse. Those that haven't lost those things are shaking in their shoes fearing that they will. But, are anyone of them out in the streets waving pitchforks and torches? Hell, no. The only ones out there are a bunch of disgruntled old, white, pre-Civil Rights segregationalists bigots, terrified of the black guy in the Black House. The only time there will ever be riots in the streets will be when those powers that be turn off the digital on all communications and keep people from downloading songs on their ipods, keep them from playing X-Box, or watching their favorite shows on TV. They watch blurbs of news on TV, shake their heads at what's going on, then proceed on to eagerly watch or take part in the days digital entertainment. America reminds me of those fat, lazy Earthmen that escaped to another planet on "Wall-E"; never getting out of their seats; everything programed on those chairs to be delivered to them so that they won't have to leave get up from them; continuously watching entertainment, unable to stand up because they're incredibly obese. Yeah, I watch TV and DVDs as much as the next slack-jawed drone. Want to make something of it? Are you talking to me? Are you talking to me? Keep walking. I'm too lazy to get off the couch to belt you one.

[femrap]

65. And with the newer

cars...can't they be halted with a nice electromagnetic pulse. This happened to me when I got a new car in 2007...the towing dude said that a certain broadcasting wave can just stop the car.

Then that Cash for Clunkers program came out....and ALL of the trade-ins HAD to be shredded. Used car people were pissed. The gov't destroyed all of those old cars that can't be Zapped.

WASF.

Maybe we should all get ham radios? Or those old radios that truckers used to use to communicate. I wonder if they're even available anymore?

[FirstLight]

88. Ham radios are still being produced & used

In fact, most of the enthusiasts are actually older war vets like my dad, who have become more of a FOX target audience, coincedence?

My dad was telling my sone the other day he wanted to teach him HAM and get him a license "just in case"

Makes me wonder if Back or somneone already mentioned it, cuz I know he watches that stuff and it was a random thought coming from him.

[Javaman]

137. right there with yoiu...

This is why I keep a wind up radio that has weather and short wave bands.

[Blue_In_AK]

15. I've been thinking a lot about this lately.

I don't think I've ever seen the country this divided, not even back in the '60s. We certainly live in interesting times. I'm kind of worried about us.

[Better Today]

16. Really?? Fearmongering on the DU now? There was so much more

to what was going on in Germany in the late 20s and early 30s than just economics. There was residual hatred of those that had won the WWI and the agreements made at the end of that war. We don't have anything like that. You are making mountains out of mole hills here, and I'm quite discouraged to see anyone on our side hyping the idea of being fearful of Nazism from their side.

Moronic.

[McCamy Taylor]

18. On the contrary. There is a huge resevoir of anger and defeat----among white racists who were taught

that no matter how poor they were, at least they were better than Black folks. Now they have a Black president and they see minorities who are doing better than they are and they are filled with anger and self loathing which they channel into hatred of their country. To them, it is just like they lost the Civil War again and they are living through Reconstruction. They know better than to put on white hoods, so instead they carry signs with Obama in African native garb.


Maybe you do not know any of these types of people. I live in the South and I meet them all the time as a physician. They are every bit as angry and defeated feeling as Germans were after the war.

[uncommon]

76. Amen to that. Civil Rights backlash is alive and well -- add to that

pro-choice victories over the years, feminism, GLBTQ rights, etc. and there is PLENTY of residual defeatism and anger brewing amongst whites in this country to fuel something like this. Perhaps not on quite the same scale, but who knows?

It always starts as talk.

[KansDem]

86. "...no matter how poor they were, at least they were better than Black folks."

Reminds me of this scene:
Mississippi Burning - My Daddy Killed That Mule

[phasma ex machina]

129. deleted

[nemo137]

19. Such as the "dolchstrosslegende?"

The myth that the German army was "stabbed in the back" and would have won the war if it weren't for those filthy, treasonous leftists? Or perhaps you're referring to the continual scapegoating and persecution of religious or ethnic minorities? Surely, nothing of that sort would happen here, and no political movement would tap into those veins.

[Flying Squirrel]

25. Wow, you really HAVEN'T been paying attention.

This isn't just his idea. Try googling "american fascism" and see how many results you get.

[Hannah Bell]

33. yeah, not like the ptb are ramping up that angle or anything. lol,

just the richest private corp in the us funding the teabaggers

[Ganja Ninja]

37. Running of fear? Where have we seen this before?

I honestly don't see how the Democratic party can square all this fear mongering. For the last two years we have allowed the conservative senate bluedogs to derail our agenda and at the same time we're told that a big tent is good for us. I think we need some kind of scorecard to help us determine which conservatives are good and which ones we need to lose sleep over.

[a la izquierda]

38. I don't think there has to be residual hatred of the kind of which...

you speak.
But there's a whole lot of hatred of a bygone era.
There's hatred of the other (and there are a few others. The other day, my neighbor threatened to call ICE because the OKlahoma state fair has a celebration of Mexican Independence). This country is gripped by some weird sort of insanity.
I will say I´m not scared to death...but I am a historian, so alarm bells are going off.

[EXneoCON]

48. You mean, for instance....

...residual hatred for the newly-elected African-American President and the progressive (however timid) policies that he set forth?

[Javaman]

58. While I agree with you...

The residual hatred displayed by the people in power in Germany, due the insane war reparations they were required to pay, could be equated at some level with the outright racism displayed by the right due to an African-American being elected President.

Hate comes in many forms and is ignited many ways, but to say one hate is more of a cause for people to act stupid as opposed to another, isn't very insightful. Hate is generally, pretty stupid.

Back then, the people of Germany were desperate. And as such, welcomed anyone who spoke of a Germany rising out of the ashes of economic despair bestowed upon them via the peace agreements.

While today's right wing nuts, full of massively misplaced self importance, reeks of entitlement defined as only "white can hole office". That, in turn, feeds into whatever ails them as their excuse to act out. In comes the likes of palin. She tells them exactly what they want to hear, regardless of how blatantly stupid it is. The right wants the answers to their problems, regardless if those answers are wrong and are actually detrimental to their own well being.

It think everything is relative. Today, the tea bagging morons equate hardship with not getting their way. Wars have been started over much less than that.

george w. moron* sowed the seeds, palin, and her various clones, continue to fertilize (spewing bullshit), and at some point there will come someone, whom I believe hasn't been identified as of yet (or hasn't made it to the national stage), that will reap the hatred.

You can fill a bucket with a gushing hose or, if you are patient, you can fill it one drop at a time.

With everything that has happened regarding our rights and total disregard for many of the basic tenants of the Constitution, I'm of the belief that they are embracing the drip method.

Before we know it, the bucket will be filled. Then we will ask ourselves, collectively, "how did we get here?"

[defendandprotect]

20. Thom Hartmann was talking about this today... T-baggers = "brown/black" shirts .....

coming in on economic disruption -- attracting angry, ignorant, violent --

"Don't dismiss them -- take this very seriously --"



Will take some exception to this, however . . .

It is going to take political contributions, volunteer efforts, letters to the press and Congress.

Notice frequent comments like that by others, as well --

Many of us have been working for decades in campaigns, making contributions, writing letters

to the "press" and Congress. And that has to be understood and acknowledged.

However, many of us who have done those things also understand that the Democratic Party in

Congress is now 44% millionaires or multi-millionaires. That the Democratic Party does not

exactly have a red carpet out welcoming anyone who isn't monied. My son campaigned for

Howard Dean and contributed substantilally. After seeing what was done to Howard Dean he

will no longer vote. Can we blame him, really?


And, the corporate-press certainly has an agenda of its own which is to disinform and confuse

the public while moving the parties and government politics to the right.


There is only one way the right wing can rise and that is thru political violence -- and we've

had 50+ years of it still unacknowledged by our corporate-press. Political violence and

stolen elections -- and right wing propaganda based on lies which remains highly successful.


Btw. the large computers used by MSM and the smaller voting computers began to come in during

the mid-late-1960's - just about the time America was passing the Voting Rights Act.

MSM, prior to that time, could only report ACTUAL vote tallies. The large computers brought

them new powers to PREDICT and CALL elections. What we saw in 2000 was simply a reversal of

those new powers.


And Democrats have declared computer voting and election steals a taboo subject for the party

and its officials because they fear if they discuss this issue that Democrats might get the idea

that our elections are not trustworthy/honest -- and they may no longer come out to vote . . .

[Hannah Bell]

22. ..

[tomp]

28. safety requires immediate and strong leftward political movement.

that is not what the democrats are doing. THAT is why we are in so much danger--the dems are playing along, as usual.

[stevenleser]

79. Actually it requires a unified left. Any brand of left will do. That is what sunk the Germans

They had a fractured left.

[Raksha]

101. We have a fractured left too, if you want to count everyone in Congress

with a "D" after their names as "the Left." THEY ARE NOT! But that subject has been pretty well covered in previous posts--on this thread and others.

[stevenleser]

104. Exactly, we DO have a fractured left. Thats the problem

Everyone is insistent on their brand of leftism and attacking everyone who isnt that brand. Its the early 1930's left in Germany all over again

[Raoul]

29. I'm not afraid

But I AM paying attention. I just refuse to sink into fear and despair everytime a group comes along and lets out a big fart on the rest of us..

[Phentex]

31. Exactly. I refuse to live in fear and I hate when fear is used for

controlling people.

No can do.

[Politicub]

54. +1 The only thing to fear is fear itself

spoken by the greatest president of all time, FDR.

I draw strength from all of liberals who came before us who faced ridicule and impossible odds fighting the system. And you know what? They prevailed in so many ways. It took decades, but social justice wins in the end. There is much to be done. The struggle will always be there.

And if what you write about were to come to pass, we would be put in a position of where we have no more to lose. There are millions of good people out there, and you would see an uprising that puts the tea party movement, contract with america, christian right, etc. to shame.

The American spirit does exist, no matter how imperfect it is sometimes. The idea at the heart of the formation of America endures. We the people, in order to form a more perfect union... right on! Yes we f'in can.

[sendero]

32. The economy itself..

... is enough to worry about. We effectively have 18% un-underemployment right now, how long can that last? There is nothing on the horizon that seems likely to change anything.

The big banks are still insolvent (even though they report a "profit"), the stock market is a joke propped up by the bit IBs and hedge funds trading with each other, there is nothing underway to leverage our manufacturing capability, about the only thing that COULD lift us out of this depression.

Obama has had almost 2 years to understand the gravity of the situation and act, but so far he has not. Anyone who is surprised that the voters are going to go nuclear has not been paying attention.

[inna]

36. I'm conflicted about this OP.

You realize we're not living in a democracy, right?

[feslen]

41. +10

true. we've been a Republic for as long as I can remember.

[kenfrequed]

57. Uhm

That sort of is a word game. We vote for elected officials who then vote on our behalf. There is a difference between a direct democracy and a representative democracy but they are both still technically democracies. And in fact, most definitions of republic state that the people retain control of their government in one form or another.

Honestly the only reason I see this argument put forth is a game of ridiculous word association (ie- Republic= Republican Democracy= Democrat).

Other than that the argument between the two is quite meaningless.

[Jakes Progress]

39. K&R Spend some time on the top floor

of the Holocaust Museum in Washington. On the floors below are the evidence of how bad humans can be. But the top floor is the warning. Photographs and documents show the rise of the Nazi party using the fears and hatred of ordinary people. In hindsight we can see it clearly. While it was happening it looked like god-fearing, ordinary citizens protesting for their homeland's rights and their culture. Look at those photographs and read those speeches and see where you get the comparisons today.

One of the problems is the human race. Even today we have many who deny the holocaust or, worse, really don't think it was all that bad a thing. We have people who think that they would like the same thing for Muslims, gays, Mexicans, or whatever is the seat of their fear. At one time, blatant bigotry and prejudice and discrimination were the rule in this country. For years those who held those views were shamed into quietude by the overwhelming show of humanity that demanded it stop. Now we have a group that wants to benefit from that dark part of the human soul. To me, that is the message of the OP.

The solutions are many and demanding. Of course we need rallies and demonstrations. But we also need everyday affirmations. Race jokes aren't funny. Don't join in with gay bashing. Stand up and confront the loud mouth who drops insinuations and slurs at the office. Be prepared to be called a prude or a censor. Be prepared to be told you don't have sense of humor, that you are being politically correct. That term is a convenient invention of those who want to excuse inhuman behavior. Read and be prepared to back up your arguments with facts and examples.

Show up at local political events. Be heard. Yes, I know America is becoming a wholly-owned subsidiary of corporate interests. But giving up isn't the answer.

Thank you, McCamy.

[feslen]

40. and Sarah Palin and her gang leads that extreme KKK right

the MEDIA fuels them with power and insurgency, why do they even bother covering Tea Asshates? Because it sells papers and mags. We have to take hateful mindless idiots off the air and stop them from "publishing" books. Except the problem is these morons make the powerful idiots money, the all mighty dollar.

the all mighty dollar + HATE might just topple what is good about America. the "liberal" media is the main enemy here, they cover all the hate and stupidity adding sound bites, instead of covering the TRUTH behind these KKK morons.

[olegramps]

47. Yes, it sells papers, but has the coverage been balanced?

I don't believe that it has been in the least balanced since Reagan ran his racist campaign to win the presidency and inaugurated the Republican Southern Strategy that won them the support of the worst elements of our society; Racists and Fanatical Christian Fundamentalists along with a sizable proportion of Catholics solely on the abortion issue. The Republicans made a pact with the devil himself. Their party drips with hatred and contempt and has poisoned the soul of America. They are a reincarnation of the Know Nothings who rejoice in the rantings of certified nitwits the likes of Palin and Beck.

Yes, be afraid, very afraid when a significant proportion of the nation provides these morons with any degree of credibility and the major news media outlets provides them with a voice that drowns out the opposition.

[Usrename]

44. With a new Rovian twist to make it harder to organize against.

The disgruntled teabaggers are the folks that are not asking the right questions, you're exactly right about that. And they are not that hard to figure out. For the most part, these people are the useful idiots that are having their abnormally strong xenophobia preyed upon by an elite group of political financiers, organizers, image makers, and talking heads.

If we look at the followers as a group, there is no actual political thought behind the movement, they are not even Ayn Randers. They do seem to be arguing for reducing the deficit by not collecting any taxes. I'm sure that this philosophy can be conjugated into an Orwellian slogan of some form or another:

Taxes are Deficits

or some such nonsense, but I don't think trying to figure that out is going to be very productive. It's much easier to look at the other factors that tie them all together. Like the fact that they all watch the most bigoted and racist pundits on Fox Noise and the fact that they are not put off by racist and bigoted remarks.

As for the leaders and organizers, these folks are all part of the fascist machine. So what could possibly be the motive here? What are Dick Armey and Newt Gingrich and KKKarl Rove up to here? Yes, color me a conspiracy theorist, but the whole "dispute" between Rove and Teabaggers is so Rovian that it is impossible for me to take it seriously. It's a litte too over the top, if you know what I mean. So what are they really up to?

I think they are trying to create a faux political party and to convince the public to perceive it as "dangerous." Nobody would buy into the "socialist" fear-mongering, which they tried first, so they instead came up with this group of nutbags to parade around in front of the public. The plan would be that if when the shooting starts, they can start rounding up people and have an excuse that the public will support:

Brian Williams: "Look at those scary people out there," while pointing excitedly to a group of folks wearing ammo belts and tri-pointed hats. "It's a good thing they are being locked up for their own good, the poor misguided fools, before they can hurt somebody," meanwhile they go about their business of rounding up the intellectuals that are organizing real political resistance.

It will be another Rovian bait-and-switch. Do you expect anything different? If so, what?

[TBF]

49. Great post, would only add

that it is going to take MORE than political contributions, volunteer efforts, letters to the press and Congress. Those are all fine, but I would add that marches, strikes, getting in the streets as we saw with the civil rights movement is going to be needed.

[TonyMontana]

59. +1 (nm)

[newspeak]

63. I think one thing has to be considered is that

germany was a lot more homogenous than the US. Yes, we have some minorities just because of their own self-interest identify with the right wing. But, this country is a lot more diverse than Germany was back in the 1920's and 1930's. And, not every "white" person is going to side with a bunch of loons. It all depends if the 70% of Americans become apathetic at a time when they should be responsive. That's why I say I will still vote, because those who attempt to influence and gain power depend on our apathy, depend on us not to vote.

[Skip_In_Boulder]

62. The new Red (Crescent) Scare

I love it. I am going to start using this phrase on a daily basis as it more accurately portrays the kind of fear mongering that is going on today.

[Skip_In_Boulder]

64. One has to vote this election

Staying home is not an option.

[radhika]

67. I see it and feel it too...but I'm not sure of tactics

But it might be a tidal wave that has to play itself out, resistance only making it stronger. Maybe that's why the world erupts in wars so regularly, our Dark Side (hate, greed, religious fanatacism and racism) wants to burst free of the shacles of Good Will and Reason.
I wish I had the financial means to relocate. I see the possible face of the USA and don't want to be part of it.

[stevenleser]

80. All that is required is a unified left. Any brand of left. n/t

[Ezlivin]

71. Read 'They Thought They Were Free' by Milton Mayer

He went back to Germany and interviewed ordinary people to discover why or how they'd let the Nazis assume control.

Here's an excerpt:

But Then It Was Too Late

"What no one seemed to notice," said a colleague of mine, a philologist, "was the ever widening gap, after 1933, between the government and the people. Just think how very wide this gap was to begin with, here in Germany. And it became always wider. You know it doesn't make people close to their government to be told that this is a people's government, a true democracy, or to be enrolled in civilian defense, or even to vote. All this has little, really nothing to do with knowing one is governing.

What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if he people could understand it, it could not be released because of national security. And their sense of identification with Hitler, their trust in him, made it easier to widen this gap and reassured those who would otherwise have worried about it.

"This separation of government from people, this widening of the gap, took place so gradually and so insensibly, each step disguised (perhaps not even intentionally) as a temporary emergency measure or associated with true patriotic allegiance or with real social purposes. And all the crises and reforms (real reforms, too) so occupied the people that they did not see the slow motion underneath, of the whole process of government growing remoter and remoter.

"You will understand me when I say that my Middle High German was my life. It was all I cared about. I was a scholar, a specialist. Then, suddenly, I was plunged into all the new activity, as the universe was drawn into the new situation; meetings, conferences, interviews, ceremonies, and, above all, papers to be filled out, reports, bibliographies, lists, questionnaires. And on top of that were the demands in the community, the things in which one had to, was 'expected to' participate that had not been there or had not been important before. It was all rigmarole, of course, but it consumed all one's energies, coming on top of the work one really wanted to do. You can see how easy it was, then, not to think about fundamental things. One had no time."

"Those," I said, "are the words of my friend the baker. "One had no time to think. There was so much going on." "Your friend the baker was right," said my colleague. "The dictatorship, and the whole process of its coming into being, was above all diverting. It provided an excuse not to think for people who did not want to think anyway. I do not speak of your 'little men', your baker and so on; I speak of my colleagues and myself, learned men, mind you. Most of us did not want to think about fundamental things and never had. There was no need to. Nazism gave us some dreadful, fundamental things to think about—we were decent people—and kept us so busy with continuous changes and 'crises' and so fascinated, yes, fascinated, by the machinations of the 'national enemies', without and within, that we had no time to think about these dreadful things that were growing, little by little, all around us. Unconsciously, I suppose, we were grateful. Who wants to think?

"To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it - please try to believe me - unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, 'regretted,' that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these 'little measures' that no 'patriotic German' could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.

"How is this to be avoided, among ordinary men, even highly educated ordinary men? Frankly, I do not know. I do not see, even now. Many, many times since it all happened I have pondered that pair of great maxims, Principiis obsta and Finem respice - 'Resist the beginnings' and 'consider the end.' But one must foresee the end in order to resist, or even see, the beginnings. One must foresee the end clearly and certainly and how is this to be done, by ordinary men or even by extraordinary men? Things might have changed here before they went as far as they did; they didn't, but they might have. And everyone counts on that might.

"Your 'little men,' your Nazi friends, were not against National Socialism in principle. Men like me, who were, are the greater offenders, not because we knew better (that would be too much to say) but because we sensed better. Pastor Niemoller spoke for the thousands and thousands of men like me when he spoke (too modestly of himself) and said that, when the Nazis attacked the Communists, he was a little uneasy, but, after all, he was not a Communist, and so he did nothing: and then they attacked the Socialists, and he was a little uneasier, but, still, he was not a Socialist, and he did nothing; and then the schools, the press, the Jews, and so on, and he was always uneasier, but still he did nothing. And then they attacked the Church, and he was a Churchman, and he did something - but then it was too late."

"Yes," I said.

"You see," my colleague went on, "one doesn't see exactly where or how to move. Believe me, this is true. Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for the one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don't want to act, or even to talk, alone; you don't want to 'go out of your way to make trouble.' Why not? - Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty.

"Uncertainty is a very important factor, and, instead of decreasing as time goes on, it grows. Outside, in the streets, in the general community, 'everyone' is happy. One hears no protest, and certainly sees none. You know, in France or Italy there will be slogans against the government painted on walls and fences; in Germany, outside the great cities, perhaps, there is not even this. In the university community, in your own community, you speak privately to you colleagues, some of whom certainly feel as you do; but what do they say? They say, 'It's not so bad' or 'You're seeing things' or 'You're an alarmist.'

"And you are an alarmist. You are saying that this must lead to this, and you can't prove it. These are the beginnings, yes; but how do you know for sure when you don't know the end, and how do you know, or even surmise, the end? On the one hand, your enemies, the law, the regime, the Party, intimidate you. On the other, your colleagues pooh-pooh you as pessimistic or even neurotic. You are left with your close friends, who are, naturally, people who have always thought as you have.

"But your friends are fewer now. Some have drifted off somewhere or submerged themselves in their work. You no longer see as many as you did at meetings or gatherings. Informal groups become smaller; attendance drops off in little organizations, and the organizations themselves wither. Now, in small gatherings of your oldest friends, you feel that you are talking to yourselves, that you are isolated from the reality of things. This weakens your confidence still further and serves as a further deterrent to—to what? It is clearer all the time that, if you are going to do anything, you must make an occasion to do it, and then you are obviously a troublemaker. So you wait, and you wait.

"But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That's the difficulty. If the last and worst act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and the smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficiently shocked—if, let us say, the gassing of the Jews in '43' had come immediately after the 'German Firm' stickers on the windows of non-Jewish shops in '33'. But of course this isn't the way it happens. In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D.

"And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, in my case my little boy, hardly more than a baby, saying "Jew swine," collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in—your nation, your people—is not the world you were in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. Now you live in a system which rules without responsibility even to God. The system itself could not have intended this in the beginning, but in order to sustain itself it was compelled to go all the way.

"You have gone almost all the way yourself. Life is a continuing process, a flow, not a succession of acts and events at all. It has flowed to a new level, carrying you with it, without any effort on your part. On this new level you live, you have been living more comfortably every day, with new morals, new principles. You have accepted things you would not have accepted five years ago, a year ago, things that your father, even in Germany, could not have imagined.

"Suddenly it all comes down, all at once. You see what you are, what you have done, or, more accurately, what you haven't done ( for that was all that was required of most of us: that we do nothing). You remember those early meetings of your department in the university when, if one had stood, others would have stood, perhaps, but no one stood. A small matter, a matter of hiring this man or that, and you hired this one rather than that. You remember everything now, and your heart breaks. Too late. You are compromised beyond repair.

"What then? You must then shoot yourself. A few did. Or 'adjust' your principles. Many tried, and some, I suppose, succeeded; not I, however. Or learn to live the rest of your life with your shame. This last is the nearest there is, under the circumstances, to heroism: shame. Many Germans became this poor kind of hero, many more, I think, than the world knows or cares to know."

I said nothing. I thought of nothing to say.

"I can tell you," my colleague went on, "of a man in Leipzig, a judge. He was not a Nazi, except nominally, but he certainly wasn't an anti-Nazi. He was just&mdahsh;a judge. In '42' or '43', early '43', I think it was, a Jew was tried before him in a case involving, but only incidentally, relations with an 'Aryan' woman. This was 'race injury', something the Party was especially anxious to punish. In the case a bar, however, the judge had the power to convict the man of a 'nonracial' offense and send him to an ordinary prison for a very long term, thus saving him from Party 'processing' which would have meant concentration camp or, more probably, deportation and death. But the man was innocent of the 'nonracial' charge, in the judge's opinion, and so, as an honorable judge, he acquitted him. Of course, the Party seized the Jew as soon as he left the courtroom."

"And the judge?"

"Yes, the judge. He could not get the case off his conscience—a case, mind you, in which he had acquitted an innocent man. He thought that he should have convicted him and saved him from the Party, but how could he have convicted an innocent man? The thing preyed on him more and more, and he had to talk about it, first to his family, then to his friends, and then to acquaintances. (That's how I heard about it.) After the '44' Putsch they arrested him. After that, I don't know."

I said nothing.

"Once the war began," my colleague continued, "resistance, protest, criticism, complaint, all carried with them a multiplied likelihood of the greatest punishment. Mere lack of enthusiasm, or failure to show it in public, was 'defeatism.' You assumed that there were lists of those who would be 'dealt with' later, after the victory. Goebbels was very clever here, too. He continually promised a "victory orgy" to "take care of" those who thought that their 'treasonable attitude' had escaped notice. And he meant it; that was not just propaganda. And that was enough to put an end to all uncertainty.

"Once the war began, the government could do anything 'necessary' to win it; so it was with the 'final solution' of the Jewish problem, which the Nazis always talked about but never dared undertake, not even the Nazis, until war and its 'necessities' gave them the knowledge that they could get away with it. The people abroad who thought that war against Hitler would help the Jews were wrong. And the people in Germany who, once the war had begun, still thought of complaining, protesting, resisting, were betting on Germany's losing the war. It was a long bet. Not many made it."

[Knight Hawk]

75. Two things

1. The people suffered from inertia it is very common.2. one thing that made the inertia a lot easier to handle is the fact the standard of living of the german people improved a lot after the Nazis got in power ,for various reasons.I understand there was a joke in post 1932 Germany among the common people that went like this"yes we were "free" before ,free to starve."Revolutions arent helped by full stomachs.

[Knight Hawk]

72. Not Exactly

The main thing I disagree with the post is that the Reds were a Boogeyman in 1932 Germany.In fact they were a strong force who fought the Nazis tooth and nail,with plenty of violence . Many of their leaders were from Russia sent over to convert the Germans ,weakened by WW1 and the Versailes (sp?) treaty.There were a number of "good germans" who sided with Hitler because they considered the Nazis the lesser of two evils and at least they were germans,although some, like the President of Germany ,the 86 year old Hindenberg, always considered him a austrian corporal.Still better than a Russian .The industrialists backed the Nazis over what they considered pure chaos because they thought they could handle him and he promised them goodies.If you have read much about Hitler,WW1 and 2 you cant mention Sarah Palin or any other leader of the Repubs in the same line as you mention Hitler .None of them come close to the combination of traits he had including his cold hearted cruelty to say the least.

[newspeak]

77. there were industrialists over here who backed Hitler and Mussolini

because they believed in their ideology. So, are you going to call the unionists communists-do you think they were all communists? Or how about the democratic socialists, were they communists, also? Remember, the communist party coexists with other parties even before the war. I'd suggest looking at Czechoslovakia. As the communist party co-exists with other parties today.

That terrible communist infiltration of the good capitalists does not excuse the atrocities committed in the name of fascism.

[Knight Hawk]

120. ?

I know there were Nazi sympathizers over here .No,I am not saying all unioniste are communists.Where did you see that?Who said ANYTHING excused the unbelievable attrocities of the Nazis.This is purely anecdotal but I know two very elderly Polish Jews,both retired physicans, who both survived WW2 in Poland .They make no distinction between Stalin and Hitler and consider them both equally evil.I have also known Lithuwanians (sp?) who have told me the common thinking in Lithuwania is that the Russians treated them worse than the Germans during WW2.They were occupied by both countries.Do you think communists like Stalin and Mao were nice guys???????????

[TexasObserver]

73. Cartoon about how the Tea Party has turned against the GOP.

and it's Gaga inspired




Yes, they are dangerous. The GOP created this monster, and they've lost control of it.

[katty]

85. yes, it could happen here, look what has happened so far, scary

times.

[FirstLight]

87. I hate to admit it, but you are right

it doesn't take much for 'teh crazy' to get control...and while we don't want to seem alarmist, they are a dangerous fringe and not to be discounted so easily...

[RoccoR5955]

90. Noam Chomsky has said that we are in the same place

in the US that Germany was before the fecal matter hit the fan there in the 30s. I will work as hard as I can to make sure that it does not happen here, but I am only one person.

[BOG PERSON]

114. X

[felix_numinous]

94. Vigilance is very different than paranoia

The fear mongering on the right is meant to keep people in a state of fight or flight which shunts blood from the brain into the limbs, causing an inability to reason.

Vigilance, or a policy of open-eyed awareness for possible danger, very much involves thinking process, of which I believe is very present in this OP and thread :)

We mistake one for the other at our own peril.

[Raksha]

108. Good point! I've been vigilant since 2004 when the Repukes stole the Ohio vote

and the Democrats refused to talk about it. But if I had REALLY been paying attention, I would have been vigilant since the Supreme Court awarded the 2000 election to Bush.

[stuntcat]

99. but but, those Germans were in black & white

It just kills me that people think they're so much better and more evolved. People are the exact same. The excited people I've seen at Tea Party things are just as dangerous as the German people who let those atrocities happen and still felt they were being moral, proud citizens.

I'm not saying we're gonna start gassing millions of people to death. I'm saying they are just as easily played as the good citizens of Germany in the 30's.
The Short-Attention-Span people think WW2 was eons ago but it wasn't. We might look different now but we are the same in our hearts.

[h9socialist]

100. The Tea Party would feel right at home burning the Reichstag!

. . . and like Hitler their leader is perfectly named: "Dick Armey." Yeah it sure is!!! Kinda says it all right there!!!

[robertpaulsen]

102. McCamy, I think I'm actually more pessimistic about our future than you.

I agree with the picture you're painting of the shape of things to come up until the point you talk about Big Oil. Now, I do agree with your assessment of how TPTB are dealing with Peak Oil, they are going to war and bleeding us dry in every conceivable way to control every last drop of oil, even if that means driving civilization off a cliff. But I disagree with this sentence:

Before that happens, the world will switch fuels.

What fuel is there to switch to?

Natural gas? - We're already using that for home heating and electricity production, among other large-scale industrial uses.

Coal? - Funny you mentioning Nazis, they were the empire relying on the Fischer-Tropsch process of converting coal into synthetic fuel in the closing days of WWII. It's a method of last resort, but it's certainly doable, especially if you're a Teabagging Totalitarian who doesn't give a fuck about the environment. As Dennis Kucinich said, clean coal is an oxymoron.

Hydrogen? Not a fuel. Hydrogen fuel cells are energy carriers not energy sources. You have to get the energy from somewhere else to fuel your car that way. Same principle for electric cars that don't have a hydrogen fuel cell engine. You need electricity. We're all dammed up with hydroelectric capacity in this country, so where does the fuel come from? Coal and natural gas.

There is no fuel to switch to that we're not already using on a massive scale! The only hope for civilization is to change the way money works. Our corporate-dominated economic infrastructure and banking system is predicated on infinite growth on a planet with finite resources. The system itself is inherently unsustainable. Corporations cannot be reformed. Our banking system cannot be reformed. They must be replaced. We need a revolution rooted in that wisdom. Unfortunately, I foresee what is congealing around us is a revolution rooted in stupidity.

[BeHereNow]

107. "A revolution rooted in stupidity." I think it is far worse than that.

I think it is more a revolution rooted in ignorance.
The mob is growing.
I'm staying home.

They scare the hell out of me.

BHN

[BOG PERSON]

112. "It is going to take more than a vote to save this country.

It is going to take political contributions, volunteer efforts, letters to the press and Congress."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathos

[War Horse]

115. Comparisons...

I think real the issue (as has beeen pointed out on DU and elsewhere) is that we're talking about Germany from the late/mid 20's to early 30's here. I.e. what led up to the utter madness that took place later on.

And that analyses of and even comparisons to the momentum/build-up to what transpired later on is not the same as equating the present day US to Nazi Germany.


BTW, I'm Norwegian, so please tell me to STFU if I'm overstepping any boundaries here. Seriously.

[madrchsod]

117. more like Mussolini.....

[Hardrada]

130. Welcome to DU! Keep up your insights.

My ancestors are from Telemark and Vil i Sogn by the way. God gamle Norge!

[CUTTIN HEADS]

116. Time to get serious....

My mother watched it all go down in Germany...this is starting to really get nuts.

[and-justice-for-all]

121. I am not scared and I am paying attention...

I am not scared because that is what they want.
I am not scared because I refuse to allow them to intimidate me.
I am not scared because I am stonger than that,
I am not scared because I know that we are better than repukes, tea baggers and the like.

[Odin2005]

122. The Teabaggers are our version of the Nazi SA.

[janet118]

125. Read "Defying Hitler" by Sebastian Haffner . . .

It was written as a journal in real time as Hitler and the Nazis rose to power. It is fascinating and terrifying because it feels so familiar. Haffner (real name Raimund Pretzel) escaped to Britain with his Jewish wife just before war broke out, but the fear and treachery that enabled the Third Reich to emerge is viewed through the eyes of a young liberal law student. The book was written in 1939, but not published until 2000 when his son, Oliver Pretzel, found it after his death and translated it.

[bertman]

126. Forewarned is Forearmed.

Rec. nt.

[Frank Booth]

127. I cringe every time anybody ridicules the possibility that Sarah Palin will be president.

She's the perfect politician as America continues its descent into absurdity.

[janet118]

140. Many of the German people ridiculed Hitler . . .

He was considered a clown by most educated Germans, but he was able to garner support from the angry, ignorant and disaffected Germans whose nationalist pride had been severely wounded by the sanctions after WWI. They reveled in becoming a part of something bigger and stronger than themselves - something that the Nazis offered them. The rest of the Germans were passive, figuring it would all just go away, or that the Social Democrats and Communists they elected would protect them.

From Defying Hitler by Sebastian Haffner:

"t was just this automatic continuation of ordinary life that hindered any lively, forceful reaction against the horror. I have described how the treachery and cowardice of the leaders of the opposition prevented their organisations being used against the Nazis or offering any resistance. That still leaves the question why no individuals ever spontaneously opposed some particular injustice or iniquity they experienced, even if they did not act against the whole. <...> It was hindered by the mechanical continuation of normal daily life."

[Douglas Carpenter]

128. I'm afraid that is all too possible

[Winston Wolf]

131. Kicked and Recommended

Thank you for this. I am keeping this bookmarked so I can remind myself what's at stake.

[Butch350]

132. Your name should be in there...

with beck, palin etc...

Enough of the Doomsday crap. You are going just a little bit overboard don't you think.

The situation can be changed - but not by people like you and your followers in this thread.

bye bye...out of this nut case section!

Carry on. Sorry I wandered into this group.

[midnight]

143. The notion that those in poverty have less claim to our tax dollars than those in bankers clothes is

wrong, and must not be allowed to continue.