NPR bit on "the poor" this morning

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

when Renee Montagne was interviewing some guy, she tossed off "well, the poor pay no taxes anyway"

I don't think that's true. If they have jobs, they have taxes withheld, no?


two corrections... it was Linda Wortheimer at it came at 3:20 in this bit
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129901240

The report was on the largest jump in the number of the poor ever.

LW: "Of course the problem with cutting taxes for the poor, is that many of the poor don't pay taxes" or something like that

[golddigger]

1. It's the new repuke talking point.

[gkhouston]

36. It's a regurgitated talking point. I've seen it puked up before, more than once. n/t

[Kalyke]

2. They get their income taxes back if they make below a certain level.

However, it's categorically untrue that the poor don't pay taxes. They pay sales taxes and fees. In my state, the poor even have to pay taxes on FOOD because we don't have an income tax.

[Sanity Claws]

17. They may get all or part of their withheld income taxes back but

they do not get their other payroll taxes back, e.g. social security withholding, workers comp, empoyment security

[Warpy]

28. Sales taxes, gas taxes phone taxes, licensing fees, and if they're lucky

property taxes--they all add up. All the niggling fees and taxes levied most heavily on the lower and middle classes represent taxes shifted off the backs of the sainted and fragile rich and onto the backs of working people.

The "poor pay no taxes" meme is the most insulting one out there. The poor and middle class pay the bulk of the total tax bill in this country through taxes on everything on a subsistence or slightly above subsistence income.

[Individualist]

27. My Civil Service retirement income is less than $20,000 and I didn't get all my taxes back.

[CTyankee]

37. that's an outrage! What state do you live in? Is it a red state?

[WCGreen]

38. He is referring to the Earned Income Credit which actually gives

people working at the low end of the pay scale a refundable credit

[CTyankee]

39. I was referring to a state tax on FOOD! That's the outrage.

I just can't believe that people live in states that tax food. It's the equivalent of the Old Testament "salt tax."

The EITC is a good thing. I have no problem with that...

[WCGreen]

40. I can see taxing junk food but not real food.

[CTyankee]

41. In a really good economy, I would agree. Right now, I just can't. I don't see the upper classes

going to McDonald's. They eat much better and they pay a lot more for it. Fine with me.

I don't know if taxing junk food per se would be equitable, from a social justice point of view. However, we could end subsidies on products that are harmful to people, especially people who are poorer.

We need to have our compass set to righting the wrongs of the past against people who have the most to lose in the battle for nutritious food in this country. We could start with a rational tax policy with regard to farmers growing food for Americans.

[Pithlet]

43. They tax groceries here in Tennessee.

It's a very noticeable difference, too. I couldn't believe it when I moved here.

[Wednesdays]

45. In Oklahoma, we have a state income tax, property taxes, AND we pay tax on groceries

In fact, just about everything is taxed, except for medicine. Oh, but you get a $40 rebate for sales tax each year (if you qualify). Whoopdeedoo. :eyes:

On the other hand, you should see the state tax form and its giveaways to Big Oil, Big Gas, and Big Agriculture.
http://www.tax.ok.gov/itformcrt.html

In Oklahoma City, the combined state and local sales taxes are 8.375%...and like I said, that's on just about anything you buy here. I moved here from a state that had a 4.00% sales tax, and necessities such as food and clothing were exempt. If I weren't so broke and dependent on my current job, I'd move back in a heartbeat.

[bobbolink]

3. First, "the poor" is dehumanizing, and we need to stop cooperating with that.

Second, there have been a lot of posts here with information about how much more poor people pay.

They aren't popular, and usually sink rapidly.

In other words, "progressives" don't consider it important to know these facts.

Hence, poor people suffer more from neglect by those who say they are compassionate.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

6. The poor is dehumanizing?

Wut?

[Enrique]

10. plus they pay special taxes for being poor

like parking tickets that the cops don't write in rich neighborhoods. (actual story from Oakland, but I'm sure it happens all over).

[EFerrari]

20. Poor people pay more for a lot of things because their choices

are so limited, they're hostages.

[bobbolink]

29. "Hostages" is a good word for it. "Food Deserts" is one recognized part of it,

but many DUers don't want to recognize that.

[xchrom]

12. +1

[Zoeisright]

4. That's a fucking lie.

And that bitch should burn in hell for it.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

7. That's what I thought too

and just wanted to float it here and listen to it again, just to make sure before I write them

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

5. They pay social security, sales taxes, etc. but not federal income tax

below a certain level.

What was the context? Were they talking about cutting income taxes?

[uncommon]

14. They were actually talking about how tax cuts don't really help poor people.

They weren't denigrating "the poor" at all.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

15. That's what I figured.

Unrec.

[uncommon]

16. Seconded.

Disingenuous bullshit like this wears thin.

[Jackpine Radical]

24. If the discussion is about cutting progressive taxes

like the income tax, then it wouldn't help the poor much. If they're talking about regressive taxes, like sales tax and FICA, then tax cuts would help low-income people.

[sandnsea]

25. The Making Work Pay tax credit did

Because it was refundable.

[tridim]

8. If I remember correctly the tax chart starts at about $9,000 gross adjusted income

But that's just income tax, the poor pay all the other taxes everyone else pays AT THE SAME RATE.

[NightWatcher]

9. plus sales taxes. assuming the "poor" spend every dollar they get

that's an additional 5-7% of their money going for taxes.


and the idiots keeping wanting a "fair tax" (sales tax of 22%, while the rich pay no capital gains tax) sure, that's fair

[uncommon]

11. When I was really poor, I always got all of my withholding back when I filed

my tax return.

Everyone has taxes withheld, some get back everything (plus some depending on what credits you qualify for) and some get nothing back.

[gkhouston]

35. Yeah, but it's a long damned time waiting for that check.

And nobody says, "woohoo, I'm so stinking poor I get all my tax money back!"

[elleng]

13. Yes, tho below a certain level, probably No.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

18. "well, the poor pay no taxes anyway" --- That is a very Broad statement

and thusly, it would be False.

If she had qualified it in some way, then we could talk about it.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

22. see my edit above

a correction... I am not used to hearing Linda in the morning

[The_Casual_Observer]

19. Sales tax, Social Security, Medicare, State, SDI

I don't know what she is talking about.

[raccoon]

21. THey pay SS taxes and sales taxes, for sure.

She sounds like a clueless idiot.

[sandnsea]

23. Our FICA subsidized the Bush Tax Cuts

And the refundable Making Work Pay credit absolutely did help the poor.

Tax cuts also help the median income workers who pay taxes but are much closer to the poor than the "middle income" folks who make $200,000 a year and still cry.

[WCGreen]

26. The poor probably end up paying almost the same amount in taxes

as the wealthy do, proportionatly...

For instance, they pay sales tax, property tax (don't for a minute think that landlords do not pass along any increase in property taxes to their renters), tobacco taxes, excise taxes, fuel taxes, taxes on cell phones, taxes on natural gas, etc, etc, etc...

[bobbolink]

30. It is much more, proportionately.

[Individualist]

32. Absolutely!

I've never heard of a wealthy person having to cut back on food and/or medicines.

[bobbolink]

33. Well, I'm sure many have had their doctors tell them to cut back on "meds"

like booze and drugs.....

:rofl:

[SargeUNN]

31. typical head up the ass statement

ANYONE poor or rich that buys any product will pay taxes on that product unless it is with food stamps or such. Her brain can't reason that far into it.

[mntleo2]

34. The poor pay MORE taxes than any other class

...I wrote an OP a few days ago pointing to the huge poverty industry where the rich use the poor for tax breaks and how the poor pay more in every other state.

Here is my OP and here is the links to show taxes paid:

OP: Taxes and Hatred for the Poor crossed posted on Kos as well as here: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/9/14/901779/-Taxation-and-Hatred-of-the-Poor-~-Response-To-Democrat-Ramshield

Institute for Taxation and Economic Policy, Who Pays? http://www.itepnet.org/state_reports/whopays.php.

In my state (WA) the poor pay the highest percentage of their incomes in taxes, but in every other state the poor pay MORE than the middle and upper classes. Check out your state.


If you really want to get mad, look at the ITEP numbers crunching about taxes corporations paid (or didn't pay but get billions back in many cases) : http://www.ctj.org/corpfed04an.pdf. While this information is 6 years old, the author and researcher, Robert McIntyre told me personally at the beginning of this year that it is only getting worse.

In my state (WA) even a welfare mother pays 17% more than Bill Gates, one of the richest men in the world. Not counting the other rich people this state has, if Bill Gates alone paid what a homeless person pays, our state would not only be out of the $12 billion deficit we now have, we would be several billion dollars ahead AND he would still be billions and billions ahead.

Honor your poor! They are holding everyone else up.

Hope this clarifies things.

Cat in Seattle

[csziggy]

42. [phone]

[Tsiyu]

44. Thanks for reposting this

I may get EIC this year( a few hundred extra) but I pay:

*property taxes
*tag fee
*sales tax on food and household and all consumer goods@ 9.25%
*taxes on animal feed (even chickens and horses)
*federal and state tax and Federal Universal Service charge on phone service
*taxes on fuel for autos and farm tools


and I'm sure I can come up with many more taxes i pay here and there.

As a percentage of my income, the taxes are significant, but if I earned more, I would happily pay more for a functioning, humane, sensible society.