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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 08:09 AM
Original message
Neoconvictions
"From the outset of the administration, Cheney focused on national security. Look, for example, at I. Lewis ‘Scooter’ Libby, an attorney who served at the Pentagon (1989-93) while Cheney was in charge. Scooter Libby not only carries the designation of Cheney’s chief of staff but also has the title national security advisor to the vice president, and he is an assistant to the president (the highest title on the White House staff). Libby’s foreign-policy background (and title) clearly reflects Cheney’s perception of, if not his preoccupation with, his war role in the Bush II administration. But Libby was just the beginning. To support his national security work, rather than relying on the National Security Council (NSC) – a statutory creation, which is part of the Executive Office of the President (and where Condi Rice as national security advisor to Bush was cutting back on staff) – Cheney formed what is, in effect, a shadow NSC. Indeed, it was actually Bush’s NSC staff who first called Cheney’s operation a ‘shadow’ government. This shadow operation, while informally integrated, actually has its own agenda as well as the power to realize it through the vice president’s clout. It is a secret government – beyond the reach of Congress, and everyone else as well.

"Cheney has under him some fifteen experienced national security experts – aides such as Eric Edelman, a foreign service officer and former ambassador to Finland who was with Cheney at the Defense Department (and who he later sent to Turkey as ambassador, not to mention the eyes and ears for the vice president), and John Hannah, who had been at Bush senior’s State Department and is an expert on the Middle East. To serve as Hannah’s top assistant, William Lutti, a former adviser to House Speaker Newt Gingrich, was hired (and later dispatched to the Defense Department when Cheney’s shadow operation increased its outsourcing). * Cheney’s academic and scholarly bent (he holds a master’s degree in political science from the University of Wyoming) explains his reliance on others with advanced degrees. Not only is Cheney’s staff smart, they know how Washington works. And running through this staff is the common thread of a shared neoconservative political philosophy. As the New Republic noted, ‘Cheney’s office came to be viewed as the administration’s neocons sanctuary.’

" * -- Investigative journalist Sy Hersch has reported at some length in the New Yorker – for example, ‘Who Lied to Whom’ (March 3, 2003) and ‘The Stovepipe’ (October 27, 2003) – about Cheney’s out-of-channels intelligence-gathering operations. In addition, the information about Cheney’s hidden intelligence-collection operations has been further puzzled together by Robert Dreyfuss and Jason Vest reported that dubious and untested intelligence was assembled by the Office of Special Plans, set up in the Pentagon ( a ‘shadow agency within an agency’) and composed largely of neoconservative ideologues, assembled to make the case for war in Iraq, and did so when others in the government’s intelligence community had no information justifying the case that Cheney and Bush wanted to make." -- Cheney’s Shadow National Security Council; Chapter 4: Secret Government; from John Dean’s "Worse Than Watergate"; pages 101-103.


Yesterday, in a DU:GD thread titled "Necroconservatives," we examined the genesis of the neoconservative movement. I wrote the OP in response to a couple of articles that have been in the corporate media recently – which have led to some interesting discussions on progressive political internet sites, including the Democratric Underground – in part because there is evidence of a growing attempt to re-define who the neoconservatives are, and what threat they pose to our Constitutional democracy.

The question we might do well to consider today is: why would the neoconservatives be engaged in an attempt to re-define themselves? One article from the corporate media apparently made note of the fact that some of the early neocons had been "liberals," and were supporters of the civil rights movement in the mid-1960s. Thus, yesterday I though it worth pointing out that they split from the civil rights movement because of their belief that non-violence was an approach that should be limited to black Americans seeking civil rights. But that same non-violent philosophy didn’t translate into the neocon’s global approach to conflict.

The neoconservatives rejected the message of Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr in the 1960s. They learned lessons about secrecy and lying from the Nixon administration. And they found ways to ignore, and indeed damage, the Constitution of the United States during the Reagan-Bush 1 years. There was nothing non-violent about their approach to Iraq, and the espionage scandal involving Larry Franklin and the AIPAIC officials is all about attempts to spread the same "democracy" that the shadow government advocated for Iraq to Iran.

As the American public has soured on the war in Iraq, and many of the republican puppets in Washington DC have soured on the neocons, we begin to see another perception management campaign unfold. The neocons are taking the position that: {1} it’s not important to look at how we got into the war – we are there, so we must move forward; and {2} the Bush administration’s non-neocons are to blame for not handling the war correctly, and that is why the darned thing didn’t go as well as Wolfowitz and Feith had promised.

As we move towards 2008, we need to consider what the goals of the neocons are? From reading a couple of paragraphs from John Dean’s "Worse Than Watergate," we see that they obtained an unprecedented amount of power – clearly a form of power that is a threat to our Constitutional democracy – that is known as the "shadow government." It’s headquarters are in the Office of the Vice President, and it has cells within a number of offices and agencies throughout the federal government. Is it realistic to assume that the neocons will go quietly into that good night in 2008, respect the public’s intentions, and willingly give up power?

Or will they look to manipulate the public’s perception of who they really are, in an attempt to divide both the democratic and republican party in a way that allows them to retain the power of the shadow government? Is there any lie that they would not tell? Any law they would not violate?

How far are they willing to go?

Might they be invested in the John McCain & Joe Lieberman campaign to sell the public on the need to stay in Iraq for "national security"? Lieberman was on Fox two days ago, saying that the public is demanding that Washington stop the partisan politics, and focus on what is "best" for America. He noted that he is considering supporting a 3rd party ticket for the presidency in ’08. Think about that. What possible 3rd party ticket would Joe be thinking of? What ticket might – in theory -- be a non-partisan attempt to united segments of both the democratic and republican party?

What we will see is an attempt to promote "neo-liberals" within the conservative democrats. And they will pretend they like us, and talk about all those wonderful things we used to have in common in the "good old days." It’ll be as if we are attending a high school reunion, and our old friends the neocon/neo-liberals will talk about when we all marched in Selma. They will say that we have much more in common than that which divides us. They are just worried about our national security, and don’t think we can afford to make the mistake of leaving Iraq too early. And we surely cannot allow Iran to have WMD.

At the same time, they will be appealing to the right-wing of the republican party. They will be attempting to maintain their power not by having a neocon as the party’s presidential candidate, but by having a fellow-traveler on the ticket in the VP’s spot.

Now, usually whenever a person says things like I have said here, someone will pop up and say, "No, no, no. You’re wrong. You don’t know what a neo-liberal is," or "You’re wrong; Cheney has never been a true neoconservative." That’s a good thing. Minister Malcolm X used to say that he could measure how well he was telling the truth by how high he made his enemies jump. And I’m confident that Malcolm would be telling the progressive democrats to be awake, and be aware, because our enemies will be trying to trick us with many lies. Our enemies know that ’07 and ’08 are all about power.

And I believe that Malcolm would remind us of something that Frederick Douglass said about "power" on August 4, 1857: "Power concedes nothing without demand. It never did, and it never will. Find out just what people will submit to, and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; and these will continue until they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both.

"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress."
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
1. Heard This Last Night & Again This Morning
"{1} it’s not important to look at how we got into the war – we are there, so we must move forward"

As to who Lieberman might be looking at for a 3rd party, back when he was running for re-election, I thought Bloomberg. Bloomberg supported Lieberman big time to the extent of sending staff members to work for him. I can't believe Mojo is so delusional that he thinks he can run and win, but he is a slippery weasel so I won't be surprised at anything he's done.

Now as to pres candidates, on the publican side the one most likely to go the neo route is Guiliani. He leaned that way when he was mayor, though it would be purely a self serving power grab for him just as it is for Cheney.

On the dem side, it's a bigger guess and more of a stretch, and if it was done it would be done for expedience. I'd have to say, HC. I never liked that 3rd way business and the DLC ties to AIPAC are a pathway into the neo world. Also, her advisors, as described in The Nation, give me pause.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Friday
:kick:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. It is very important
for grass roots democratic activists to invest time and energy in advocating a progressive platform. (I know some DUers prefer the word "liberal" to "progressive," and I think that's fine, so long as we are in general agreement what that means, and do not allow "neo-liberals" an opportunity to manipulate that definition. It does not include supporting the Bush-Cheney policy in Iraq.) There are certainly other forces in the democratic party that are more likely to support corporate interests. We need to demand the party represent our interest.
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Annces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
3. If you know where they are headed
you are in a much better position to expose them.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. True.
It is similar to teaching young people what the methods and goals of commercials on tv are. Once a young person realizes that commercials use manipulative tactics to try to get them to consume certain products, the commercial loses most of its power. The neoconservative campaign is trying to sell us something, too .... but it is a product that will consume our Constitutional democracy if we buy the lies they are peddling.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. I fear that Americans are, for the most part
OBLIVIOUS to the threat the neocons pose to democracy.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Sad, but true.
Even at this late date, many Americans do not have a good idea of who these people are, and what threat they pose to our Constitutional democracy. In part it is because the corporate media does not report accurately on issues involving the Plame scandal, the neocon/AIPAC espionage scandal, the Niger forgeries, and related issues. Of course, some people who pass themselves off as "journalists" have been involved in these scandals.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-19-07 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #9
31. So true
I see this in some of my family. They have other priorities (job, families, hobbies), and do not pay attention. They get a lot of info from listening to others who listen to Foxnews, ugh. But I also try to get them to listen to me too, to get a more balanced picture!
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althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
6. Error: You've already recommended that thread.
Damn!
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Allow me. nt
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
10. K & R. This next election is going to be a barn-burner of corporate excess.
It is very possible, no... probable, at this point, that Bloomberg and Hagel are planning a joint run on an independent ticket, and I believe LIEberman's early "endorsement" of an "independent" candidate is an attempt to pierce the two-party thinking. My guess? They'll wait to see if Gore goes in with guns blazing at the end of the summer, and shuts down some of the already-heated-up primary candidate's inflated numbers.

At that point, the media (with bloomberg's money, and the neocon's shadow support) would go into "slam Gore" mode, and start talking about how people want "new faces", and "an alternative to the two-party bickering that gets nothing done". Gore is basically a populist candidate, and there are WAY too many corporations that will go into all out war mode to defeat him. Not so with most of the other "mainstream" candidates, who are in a cozy bed with corporatists. (Edwards is an exception of sorts here, but during his tenure, he was a FAR more conservative senator than he lets on now. )

If Gore immediately chose Clark as a running mate, I think bloomberg/hagel would have their hands REALLY full.

:kick::kick::kick:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I think that
Gore/Clark would be a great ticket. But I think that Clark is planning to be on a different democratic ticket, with a senator from NYS.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Is That A Guess
Or have you been listening at doors again? }(
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I listen to
The Doors quite a bit. Not as much as I listen to the Beatles or the Plastic Ono Band, of course. But if you listen to "The End" backwards, you'll hear about "Wes 4 VP."
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. LOL!!!
So THAT'S where you get your information!! And all this time I thought you were a library with voice activation!! Instead you're a psychic backwards decryption specialist with automatic writing. :shrug: You sure had me fooled all these years!

:kick::kick::kick:
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
30. Now that Cheney's redefined the vice-presidency,
it would be amazing to see what could happen if it were retrieved from the dark side by someone like Wes Clark.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
15. I don't know how you manage it, H2O, but you always seem one step ahead of them.
At least.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. I think that we
are going to see a heck of a struggle in the next 18 months. I wish that I was confident that the democrats in the House and Senate were more focused on exposing the disease in the OVP.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-19-07 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #22
35. I was wondering the other day. Is it possible that the good guys
Edited on Sat May-19-07 04:43 PM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
see a possibility that this seemingly endless series of absolutely unavoidable investigations into major felonies might precipitate a rash coup attempt by Bushco? Giving the Executive the opportunity to cleanse the Augean stables once and for all, and achieving it much, much more speedily and completely? Too far-fetched, I suppose.

There was an article posted here fairly recently about a White House plan in the event of "decapitation", and it was surmised that it referred to such a coup in the event of impeachment(s).
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
16. To repeat: "Power concedes nothing without demand."
K&R
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
17. k&r
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
18. What should we expect from PPI?
Should we be checking out the tea leaves? Are they officially connected to DLC? (I see that they seem to "share" a website. . . )
http://www.ppionline.org/index.cfm
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. I am usually
uncomfortable with folks that use the term "homeland security." That might just be one of my personal quirks.
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La_Fourmi_Rouge Donating Member (878 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. You are not alone...
I have had trouble with the phrase since it first entered the American lexicon. It has the ring of ultra-nationalism about it (c.f. Sobodan Milosevic). What is wrong with the time- honored phrase "National Security"?

It seems to be part of the whole "perception management" scheme we have discussed on innumerable threads... it just sounds creepy to me.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Yep.
I like the phrase "national security." When people talk about "homeland security," I think that they are appealing to the darker impulses of the public.
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xiamiam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-19-07 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #24
33. or the dark side of the creators of homeland security...interesting observation, H20..nt
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Walking Like And Talking Like A Duck
Doesn't make you one unless you can also quack like one. Don't know that site but looking at it, it seems like anyone can call themselves progressive.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
21. kick
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La_Fourmi_Rouge Donating Member (878 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
25. "The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress."
I have no more to add - the quote just bears repeating - from the rooftops.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. It is
a powerful quote.


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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
26. "The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress."
Edited on Fri May-18-07 07:09 PM by IChing
"The most potent weapon in the hands of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed. "

Steve Biko..........


Thanks H2O man.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Steve Biko
spoke the truth. He belongs in a group of great advocates for freedom, alonng with Douglas and Malcolm.

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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
29. "A neoconservative is a liberal who's been mugged."
That's the cutesy neocon definition. Your post casts some light on this, with regards to their rejection of non-violence except for minorities seeking civil rights.

I have a hard time finding any threads whatsoever of liberal politics in neoconservatism, but I'm curious about something from your last post, about how neocons embrace the welfare state. How does this serve their ends? I have some guesses, but would love to hear your thoughts.

Thanks!
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xiamiam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-19-07 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. imo, to have willing bodies for their never ending wars...nt
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-19-07 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
32. Kick.
:kick:
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