Bibles being handed out IN school here too

[AnnInLa]

A DUer reported Bibles being handed out by the Gideons in her area a few weeks ago. Just read in the morning newspaper that it's happening here too. (Well, in a parish/county near me.) But, these Bibles were being handed out IN school, in front of the principal's office, and is being contested by the ACLU, representing a Catholic student...seems the Catholic bible is different than the Gideon Bible:

http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/7567482.html

A federal civil rights lawsuit filed Thursday charges that Loranger Middle School administrators lined up all fifth-graders at the Tangipahoa Parish school earlier this month and improperly allowed Gideons International representatives to hand each child a pocket Bible.

The suit was brought in U.S. District Court at New Orleans, by the American Civil Liberties Union on behalf of Roman Catholic parents of a fifth-grader given one of the Bibles on May 9.

The students were brought in front of the school office during class time. Two men inside a school hallway gave out the Bibles as they said “God, bless you,” the suit alleges and ACLU officials said.

snip

“She accepted the Bible out of coercion and fear that she would have been criticized, ridiculed and ostracized by her peers and/or school officials,” the suit alleges.

The suit says the girl’s teacher said students get Bibles every year.

The students were handed pocket-sized Gideon “New Testament” Bibles that contain the books of the New Testament, as well as Proverbs and Psalms, Cook said.

The Gideons typically distribute these versions on college campuses and in public and private schools starting in the fifth grade, the Gideons’ Web site says.

snip

While stemming from the same Christian faith, the Roman Catholic and Gideon Bibles do have differences, said Rodger Payne, chairman of the LSU department of philosophy and religious studies.

The Bibles are drawn from translations separated by more than a millennium.

[tanyev]

1. Yep, once the Christian Dominionists finally attain their goal of national domination,

then they will have to start slugging it out amongst themselves as to which version of Christianity is correct.

Seems like this has happened a few times before....

[BushOut06]

2. Why do you hate Christians?

If you oppose Bibles being handed out in school, then you obviously hate Christians. After all, the Constitution guarantees freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.
:sarcasm:

Isn't it amazing, than in the year 2007, we're still having stuff like this?

[DBoon]

6. And the freedom to convert idol-worshipping papists

to accept the English-speaking protestant Jesus

[Clark2008]

13. You mean the Jewish guy, who grew up in the Middle East and

lived during a time when there was no air conditioning, but still managed to look like this without getting sunburned or develop skin deformaties?



Looks more like Greg Allman than a Jewish carpenter, eh?

[bdamomma]

17. the picture of Jesus is our perception of him

other cultures could have a different perception of him. I found this:

http://www.wehaitians.com/what%20did%20jesus%20really%20look%20like.html

[Bigmack]

19. The artist's rendering from...

the 1st century looks awfully Eye-raki to me! Can't be! Looks like a terra-ist!

[Nunyabiz]

21. well the "perception" is all there is

because quite clearly no such person ever existed.
There is not a single shred of evidence that any such "Jesus of Nazareth" ever existed in anything but mythology.
The entire New Testament is an Astrological Drama written in the old Pagan Passion Play Style and the characters are allegorical.

Jesus= the SUN
Mary = Virgo
Joseph = Bootes
John the Baptist = Aquarius
The 2 Fishermen = Pisces

and so on

The character of Jesus is allegorical for the Sun god exactly like Horus, Osiris, Krishna etc. which is why the stories are all almost identical.
Anyone that believes this crap in this day & age should be locked up and deprogrammed.

[YOY]

3. Handing out Bibles at a public school???

Someone needs to get their ass fired. I smell fundie...

Unless they plan on handing out all other versions of the book, the Torah, Koran, Upanishads and have a little comparitive religioun class.

[Xenotime]

14. I thought we had a clear separation of church and state.

What happened?

[YOY]

16. There's a Fundie teacher out there and many parents who did not read the constitution

and futhermore a complete glut of trust on anyone who does something in the name of Religion.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

4. While I Saw Nothing Wrong With The Prior Incident, This One Is 100% Unacceptable.

This went wayyyyyyy over the line and there isn't even a hint of grey area here.

[TlalocW]

5. The Gideons would show up on our campus when I was in college

If they filled out the proper forms and got permission it was okay for them to be there. Men in their 60s, still wearing powder blue suits foisting Bibles off on people. My friend, Doug, had to walk past them, and when they offered him a Bible, he told them no thanks because he was an atheist. The guy followed him across campus trying to convert him. I'm still now sure if this was my friend's plan all along or not...

TlalocW

[Nunyabiz]

7. They have been working on this for 30 years

"Life and Liberty for All Who Believe"

The Crusaders

The Despoiling of America

America's Hitler

An Anti-American Terrorist Movement

The Religious Right: Pushing A Deadly Addiction

Authoritarian Behavior of the Religious Right

http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/AmericasHolyWarriors.html">America's Holy Warriors

Infiltrating the U.S. Military by Christofascist

14 Points of fascism


1.) Powerful and Continuing Nationalism: Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2.) Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights: Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3.) Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause: The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4.) Supremacy of the Military: Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5.) Rampant Sexism: The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

6.) Controlled Mass Media: Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7.) Obsession with National Security: Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses

8.) Religion and Government are Intertwined: Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9.) Corporate Power is Protected: The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10.) Labor Power is Suppressed: Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11.) Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts: Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

12.) Obsession with Crime and Punishment: Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations

13.) Rampant Cronyism and Corruption: Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections: Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.


Anybody think they can name even ONE of these points that doesn't fit this country perfectly in the last 6 years?

[bdamomma]

18. well, all those 14 points listed we have met sadly.

[AX10]

8. This is blatantly unconstitutional.

Keep religious doctrine out of our schools!

[Ishoutandscream2]

9. Do you have a fairly large Muslim community?

Would't it be nice to see the expressions of the fundies of your community if Qurans were passed out?

They say God is out of the classroom. What they are obviously talking about is their God.

[AnnInLa]

10. NO, no Muslims

However, this school system is famous for trying to get religion in its school system. I think it's the 4th time the ACLU has brought suits against it. It now has a pending suit about saying a prayer to begin its school-board meetings. The board members were elected on promises of defying Supreme Ct decisions...to bring religion to public school students. I think the $$ cost of fighting the ACLU on these controversial issues will finally bankrupt the system.

[AnnInLa]

11. I also wonder why the ACLU is contesting on the basis

of difference between the Catholic bible and the Gideon bible. In the past their suits have been about the seperation of church/state.

[Az]

24. One would think this particular difference would strengthen their case

The Gideon bible is not associated with any particular denomination and as a result is a bit more slippery relative to the establishment clause. The Catholic Bible on the other hand certainly is associated with a specific Church and is a clear violation of the clause.

[Bitwit1234]

12. Maybe people from other faiths

Muslims, Wiccans, Shintos etc should walk up and stand next to these people and hand out their Bibles and information. Wonder what those handing out the Gideon Bibles would do.

[Lurking Dem]

15. There is clear legal precedent.

In the first case, Gideons was clearly within the bounds of the law. In this case, they are clearly outside those bounds.

[Az]

20. Here is the deal

If they allow some people to stand next to her and distribute copies of the Quran, The Torah, The Tao Te Ching, and Dawkin's The God Delusion then they would not have a legal problem. But if its just the bible (catholic or otherwise) then they have violated the establishment clause.

[sheerjoy]

22. So

do it. Nuttin wrong with the Word of God being shared... nor the word of whomever... glad the Gideons are still busy.
;) makes ya wanna fuss, huh?

Good morning all...

How ya?

[Az]

23. Let me share a true story with ya

Seems there was this group of students holding a bible study class after school in one of the school classrooms. It was perfectly legitimate because it was not sponsored by the school and made use of the programs the school offered anyone interested. But then a group of atheists asked if they could set up their own bible study group. The principle at first said no. But when pressed he realized that he had no choice. The request was legitimate. So after struggling to find a teacher to chaperon the group (it was one of the science teachers and they would only do it via a open mic on the PA system from another room) he gave them permission.

Thats when the PTA got wind of it. All hell broke loose and the parents demanded that the atheists not be allowed to have their bible study group. But the principle had no reason to deny them their use of the school property because the same program that allowed the Christians to study the bible allowed the atheists to do so too. The pressure increased from the parents. In the end the principle was forced to cancel all after school programs.

This tactic is tried repeatedly. The problem isn't that we don't want Christians distributing material. Its that we want to be treated the same. But the Christians doing these things do not want that. They want to have special access and special privilages. And as soon as anyone else starts trying to do the same thing as them they raise a fuss.

The same thing happened when Bush started pushing his faith based charity programs. When he first started pushing it through the Scientologists and Satanists showed up and asked how much money they would be recieving. All the Christian supporters immediately backoff from the program. Bush and Company retooled the wording of the laws making it only mainstream religions that could make use of the funding and they returned because "mainstream" was code for Judeo/Christian.

Its the same story all the time. The Christians (and its not all Christians as many are up there fighting for Church/State separation) that do this want exclusive access. And when its pointed out to them that the government cannot choose one religion they sabotage the entire thing.

[sheerjoy]

25. Then, we (Christians) are wrong

I agree... either ALL or none. I prefer all.

[AnnInLa]

27. You said

The problem isn't that we don't want Christians distributing material....


I, for one, do not want Christians or any other faith distributing material at schools for which I pay taxes.

Let me repeat that: I, for one, do NOT want Christians or any other faith distributing material at schools for which I pay taxes.

[Az]

28. I was addressing the legal issue

Its not necessarily about what anyone wants. Its about what the laws of this land allow for. And as it stands what they are doing currently is not allowed by the laws.

[MistressOverdone]

26. This was the norm where I grew up

but I guess it has changed now. We also read scripture and the Lord's Prayer daily. Times have changed!

[libnnc]

29. They got us in the lunch line

Every year the Gids would come to our elementary school and hand out the NT while we were lined up for lunch. You couldn't say "No", couldn't move out of line (teachers wouldn't allow it).

That was in the 70s. I hate it that that crap is still going on.

[Brigid]

30. When I was in school . . .

Which is longer ago than I care to admit, the Gideons handed out pocket sized New Testaments in fifth grade classrooms. I think I might still have mine somewhere. It seemed like no big deal at the time. Just goes to show how times have changed, I guess.

[PegDAC]

31. When I was in fifth grade,

in 196?, they held an assemply in the auditorium/gym and handed them out.

[onenote]

32. This is a recidivist school district -- hope they get socked with a major fine

The ACLU has sued this particular school district several times over violations of separation of church and state.
http://katc.com/Global/story.asp?S=6533389