Towards a very serious breakdown of the world economic and financial system

[SarahB]

Scoff if you want, but this is from an organization that's been right about the economic crisis every step of the way. Scary stuff - I suggest you read the whole thing. And please, if you're going to refute it, do so with facts.

http://www.leap2020.eu/GEAB-N-47-is-available-The-Global-systemic-crisis-Spring-2011-Welcome-to-the-United-States-of-Austerity-Towards-a-very_a5168.html

As anticipated by LEAP/E2020 last February in the GEAB No. 42, the second half of 2010 is really characterized by a sudden worsening of the crisis marked by the end of the illusion of recovery maintained by Western leaders (1) and the thousands of billions swallowed up by the banks and the economic « stimulation » plans of no lasting effect. The coming months will reveal a simple, yet especially painful reality: the Western economy, and in particular that of the United States (2), never really came out of recession (3). The startling statistics recorded since summer 2009 have only been the short-lived consequences of a massive injection of liquidity into a system which had essentially become insolvent just like the US consumer (4). At the heart of the global systemic crisis since its inception, the United States is, in the coming months, going to demonstrate that it is, once again, in the process of leading the economy and global finances into the « heart of darkness » (5) because it can’t get out of this « Very Great US Depression (6) ». Thus, coming out of the political upheavals of the US elections next November, with growth once again negative, the world will have to face the « Very Serious Breakdown » of the global economic and financial system founded over 60 years ago on the absolute necessity of the US economy never being in a lasting recession. Now the first half of 2011 will dictate that the US economy take an unprecedented dose of austerity plunging the planet into new financial, monetary, economic and social chaos (7).

...

The coming quarters will be particularly dangerous for the world economic and financial system. The Chairman of the Fed Ben Bernanke passed on the message as diplomatically as possible at the recent meeting of world central bankers at Jackson Hole, Wyoming: even though the policy to revive the US economy has failed, either the rest of the world continues to fund US deficits at a loss and hopes that at some point the bet will pay off, avoiding a collapse of the global system, or the United States will monetize its debt and turn all the Dollars and US Treasury Bonds held by the rest of the planet into funny money. Like any power at bay, the United States and is now forced to introduce the threat of pressure to get what it wants. Barely a year ago the rest of the World’s leaders and financial officials had volunteered to « refloat the USA ship ». However, today things have drastically changed since the noble assurance from Washington (the Fed’s, like that of the Obama administration’s) proved to be only pure arrogance based on the pretense of having understood the nature of the crisis and on the illusion of possessing the means of controlling it. However, US growth evaporates quarter after quarter (8) and turns negative again from the end of 2010. Unemployment hasn’t stopped growing and between the stability shown in official figures and the exit, in six months, of more than two million Americans from the workplace (LEAP/E2020 believes that the real unemployment figure is now at least 20% (9)); the U.S. housing market remains depressed at historically low levels and will resume its fall from the fourth quarter 2010; last but not least, as one can easily imagine in these circumstances, the US consumer is and will be absent on a permanent basis since his insolvency continues and even gets worse (10) for the one American in five without work. Behind these statistical factors hide three realities that will radically change the US and global political, economic and social landscape in future quarters as and when they dawn on the public consciousness.

First of all, there is a very depressing widespread reality, a real trip « to the heart of darkness », which is that tens of millions of Americans (nearly sixty million now depend on food stamps) who no longer have a job, no longer have a house, no longer have any savings, are wondering how they will survive in the years to come (11). The young (12), retirees, African-Americans, workers, service employees (13),… they constitute this mass of angry citizens who will speak violently next November and plunge Washington into a tragic political impasse. Supporters of the « Tea Party (14) » and « new secessionist (15) » movements... want to « break the Washington Machine » (and by extension that of Wall Street) without having feasible proposals to solve the country’s myriad problems (16). The November 2010 elections will be the first opportunity for this « suffering America » to express itself on the crisis and its consequences. And, won back by the Republicans or even the extremists, these voters will help to further cripple the Obama administration and Congress (which will probably swing to the Republicans), only pushing the country into a tragic gridlock just when all the signals turn red again. This expression of widespread anger will in addition, from December onwards, collide with the release of the Deficit Commission report set up by President Obama, which will automatically place the issue of deficits at the heart of public debate at the beginning of 2011 (17).

...

Finally, there is a financial and monetary effect that is particularly tragic since the players are aware of their unenviable situation: the U.S. Federal Reserve now knows that it is powerless. Despite the extraordinary efforts (zero interest rates, quantitative easing, huge support to the real estate mortgage market, massive support to banks, tripling its balance sheet, ...) that it carried out from September 2008, the U.S. economy will not restart. Fed leaders are finding they are only a part in the system, even if it is a vital part and, therefore, can do nothing against a problem that affects the very nature of the system, in this case, the US financial system, designed as the solvent heart of the global financial system since 1945. But the US consumer has become insolvent (20), the consumer who, during the last thirty years, has gradually become the central economic player of this financial heart (with more than 70% of U.S. growth dependant on household spending). It is this insolvency of US households (21) that has broken the Fed’s efforts.

[RagAss]

1. Hmmm....HHHmmmmm......Buy ! Buy ! Buy!

[earth mom]

2. K & R even though the unwreck crew has been VERY busy today.

:argh:

[SarahB]

3. Yeah, well, they unrec without explaining, using facts, why it SHOULD be unrecced.

Pretty cowardly, if you ask me.

[sendero]

12. Don't worry..

... it's just fools putting their fingers in their ears and going la la la la.

Some people just can't handle the truth. Some know they are screwed and would rather not be reminded of it. And some are just stupid.

[RKP5637]

13. What is so concerning is there is so much ignorance in this county that many

will dismiss an analysis such as this because of their sheer ignorance. It's one thing to dismiss something and offer valid logic and alternatives, but I've not heard anyone that IMO could refute what this says about our direction. Some think Obama is going to wave a magical wand and fix everything, some think no taxes cure everything, some think no gov. is the solution and some think if only they prayed more...

We're in a bad situation, I would feel more comfortable if Americans, the majority, said we are really fucked, but I think many clinging to their jobs think all will be well, and others have their heads buried in the sand. Sadly, this allows loud mouthed fools to rise to the top and champion the ignorant of this country who are sadly so easy to manipulate and ever so proud of their ignorance.

[Ghost Dog]

16. k&r & thanks, SarahB.

Job well done.

[slay]

4. I'll K&R to make up for their crap

I'm not surprised that the "Obama is god and will fix everything" crowd would come and unrec something like this. They tend to un-rec anything that isn't praising Obama like he's the second coming. :eyes:

[Buns_of_Fire]

5. The Fed's next move -- SUB-zero interest rates!

(But only if you're a bankster, of course.)

[ThomWV]

7. They did that a long time ago - that's what the bailouts were.

[Buns_of_Fire]

10. Very true. (I should have wedged that in somewhere.) :-)

We just have to adjust ourselves to this New Economy, that's all. I still think "Pitchforks 'R' Us" is a viable business model and could be worth millions, millions, I tell ya! (If I had more than $3.42 in my checking account I might even start one up myself.):evilgrin:

[Recursion]

97. Huh? The Fed has made money off of TARP

That's why so many financial institutions didn't want it; they had to pay it back with interest.

[RKP5637]

8. Yeah, so true, that's the next step... n/t

[defendandprotect]

70. Makes it easier for wealthier to come in now and buy up property ....!!

[BeHereNow]

6. Great site- thanks for posting this.

Funny how it has not had many replies...
Sad, actually.

BHN with a K&R

[Panaconda]

9. K&R

[ipaint]

11. Thanks for posting this article.

Good to read the devastating truth instead of the nauseating recovery pablum.

[IDemo]

14. Not so long ago, posting articles like this would bring out the scoffers here

Not even a cricket chirp lately, though..

[sendero]

15. All the folks..

... who used to chide me back in 2006, 2007 and 2008 have finally STFU :)

[anarch]

17. it seems to me that this is the inevitable consequence of an economy based on bullshit

and our economy has been based mostly on total bullshit for some time now

[RKP5637]

18. Exactly! It's been based on smoke and mirrors + total bullshit. n/t

[L0oniX]

22. They squeeze labor costs down and expect them to buy shit yet?

This is where it all fails. You can't bring down labor cost of the very products you expect them to buy. Example of the idea: It used to be that an auto assembly worker could afford one of the new cars they were making. It's gotten to the point that a Walmart worker can only afford to buy at Walmart. So now that the wall street banksters and corporate CEO's have walked away with obscene bonuses by forcing down labor costs ...we and the rest of the world can't afford their shit anymore. Out sourcing has put us out of work ...how can we buy anything? WTF did they expect would happen? Good luck to them selling their shit to the slave labor they have making their shit. They have killed the US consumer and now the US and the whole world is going to pay the price for it.

[WCGreen]

32. That is the real problem...

People are working and can't afford to buy the stuff they sell or produce or process...

[northernlights]

43. not quite

the walmart worker can only afford to shop at the dollar store and can only afford to eat with food stamps.

The dollar store worker is shit out of luck.

[SammyWinstonJack]

54. Yep.

x(

[femrap]

81. So I guess this

means that Marx (not Groucho) was right. Capitalism contains the seeds of its own destruction.

I've seen this coming for a long time. I knew I'd have to live in a Depression. I used to ask my grandfather about The Depression. He wouldn't talk about it. Shit...and my grandparents lived on a farm so at least they weren't hungry.

So austerity means what? No more wars? Or more likely no more SS and Medicare....old people dying in the streets? Shit.

Time to go local. Maybe one good thing will come out of this....Walmart will go away. And Mom and Pop stores can reopen.

If we don't pay our debt to China, they'll embargo us and then we can rebuild our manufacturing. Or do we have WW3 with Israel bombing Iran?

[femrap]

82. I guess this

means that Marx (not Groucho) was right. Capitalism contains the seeds of its own destruction.

I've seen this coming for a long time. I knew I'd have to live in a Depression. I used to ask my grandfather about The Depression. He wouldn't talk about it. Shit...and my grandparents lived on a farm so at least they weren't hungry.

So austerity means what? No more wars? Or more likely no more SS and Medicare....old people dying in the streets? Shit.

Time to go local. Maybe one good thing will come out of this....Walmart will go away. And Mom and Pop stores can reopen.

If we don't pay our debt to China, they'll embargo us and then we can rebuild our manufacturing. Or do we have WW3 with Israel bombing Iran?

[dixiegrrrrl]

19. Excellent article. Reality sucks.

Article is voicing what too few people are saying aloud.
I esp. appreciate the outing of the bullying tactics used by Geithrner ( ost recently with China )

This: the United States will monetize its debt and turn all the Dollars and US Treasury Bonds held by the rest of the planet into funny money.
I think is sorta happening, in that bad bonds are being forced fed to buyers.
Is that not a form of "funny money"?

K&R

[chimpymustgo]

61. Good post. We are so screwn. Why is this administration not ATTEMPTING to address the structural

problems with our economy?

[dixiegrrrrl]

93. Because the big banks would lose their money

and because the debt could not be paid for ( bought up) by the big banks, some of which are china and japan banks.
Essentially it is a circular firing squad...the banks are all trading debt with each other, making money from the fees, round and round and round it goes.
Value of the underlying bonds is not what matters, the huge fees are what matters.
Stop the game, the economy really does go BOOM!

[SarahB]

20. Hmmm... 18 unrecs

And NOT ONE, so far, has the balls and the facts to refute anything in this post. What does that tell you about reality? Perhaps we've been ignoring and suppressing the facts for too long; maybe that's why we're in this mess today....

Facts? Logic? Anyone?

What does that say?

[SlipperySlope]

26. What's to refute?

The truth is obvious to anybody who looks for it. There was no recovery and the bail-out money is wearing off.

[Lilith Velkor]

52. Unrec for whining about unrec

Happy now? :eyes:

[SarahB]

72. Yes. Because a mature and factual discussion is what I want.

THank you for adding your mature and thoughtful opinion.

[Lilith Velkor]

80. No problem, glad to help.

I liked the OP, but unfortunately, the first few comments included a lot of childish bullshit about the unrec feature, which gets an automatic unrec from me, and probably quite a few others.

You seem to think it's about the facts, but it ain't necessarily so.

[PurityOfEssence]

118. Unrec is an asshole feature for peer-pressuring shriekers who thirst to crush and humiliate dissent

There. How's that?

A pluralist discussion will be thwarted by the cheerleaders and personality-cultists who DEMAND to crush any dissent.

Bringing up the fact of a valid bit of sobering reality is usually met by the legions of lock-step acolytes with their "unrec" attempts to sovietize recent history. Those self-appointed as the protectors of all that's good and true hound any who aren't a hundred percent in abject awe of the administration. That's not virtue, that's junior-high groupthink ugliness.

Bummer. Deal with it.

There's a pathetic, keening strain of vapid devotees who somehow consider this forum "their" place of refuge, and seek to cleanse it of any annoying realities. That kind of sanitizing group tyranny is akin to religion and similarly sickening.

What's really galling is the knee-smashing harassment usually used by conservatives to humiliate with the "whining" screed. Boo fucking hoo yourself. Calling someone a whiner reminds one of a bully insulting the recently hurt. It's self-aggrandizing dismissal of complainers, while posturing as somehow "adult". Grown-ups should be able to handle differences of opinion without the need to shout down others.

[Lilith Velkor]

121. WHARRGARBL!

[Name removed]

86. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[femrap]

87. Thanks for posting...k and r

I've seen this coming for years....debt upon debt. When those Home Equity Loans came out, I knew we'd see the day of comeuppance.

Today's culture is not willing to sacrifice and save up the $$$ for something. Going into debt for a car is just foolish...you end up paying for a BMW while you're driving a Chevy. Madison Ave. and its propaganda got the unaware people to buy into their folly. So many believe they are entitled to have whatever they want. I just pray that these unaware people don't get too angry and decide to take it out on the rest of us.

I'm planning to move to a more rural area...fewer people. I just hope we don't have to have WW3. If we renege on our Treasury Obligations, won't China be pretty pissed?

[leftstreet]

21. K&R

Very interesting article, thanks for posting it

[roamer65]

23. We won't adopt austerity measures.

We are going to try to debt monetize our way out of this crisis. If that means the Federal Reserve buys every Treasury note, they will do it. We're heading straight for hyperinflation.

As Nixon's Treasury secretary, John Conally said, "The dollar is our currency, but it is your problem."
That will exactly be the attitude of Geithner and Bernanke and it will lead to failure.

[laughingliberal]

24. I believe they have succeeded in killing off the goose that laid the Golden Egg. nt

[JournalistKev87]

25. I HATE Posts Like This

not because that I think it's alarmist rhetoric but because I don't know how the fuck I'll survive an economic implosion. Type 1 Diabetic here, who is prisoner to the insurance company. I'm on my mom's till 26 but she works in a Chicago Public School.

Blerg!!

[life_long_dem]

35. I wish I could convince you, and myself, for that matter

that everything will smooth itself out. But, since I don't know, I will at least wish you good luck with your health. Take care.

[Silent3]

27. I can't really confirm or deny how accurate this prediction is...

...but let me put it like this: Is there anyone here who has so much faith in the truth of this prediction that they're making huge, radical changes in their lives to prepare for it?

It's one thing to nod your head and agree that things look very bad, to acknowledge the real problems beneath the visible surface of the economy... but that still doesn't give me great faith that anyone group of economists and political pundits really know what's going to happen, what is or is not inevitable, that many so-called experts even have a great handle on what is or isn't slightly more likely.

If you really, truly believe the OP, and you aren't already in bad financial shape, wouldn't you do everything in your power to divest yourself of all big expenses in your life while you can? The OP challenges anyone to come up with "facts" (which are very slippery things when it comes to the subject of economics), but would the OP or anyone else in fierce agreement, say, sincerely and with great confidence, that I should sell by big house with the big mortgage payments and big property taxes while the selling is still good, pile up cash (presuming hyperinflation isn't a predicted part of this supposed coming meltdown) buy a van that's big enough to sleep in, move to a cheap apartment for now that I can easily move out of into the back of my van, and maybe spend a little of my cash on a cheap piece of land in a warm part of the country where I can park my van and grow my own food if it comes down to it?

Or are most of the people heartily agreeing with the OP talking like they believe it while merrily going on living just as if they don't?

[CoffeeCat]

29. That's an interesting point...

I often read these "economy will implode" articles and wonder what I can do to protect myself and my family.

Six years ago, I knew a financial collapse was coming--because of our experience buying a house. Our mortgage
broker didn't know how to fill out the paperwork for a conventional, fixed-rate 30 year mortgage. In 2004, I
started warning all of my friends and relatives that the housing market would implode. Everyone was buying
more house than they could afford. Our banker and real estate broker tried to talk us into "more house." We
were treated like fools for not taking advantage of creative financing, an ARM or other financial malarkey.

I also was very concerned about credit-card debt. I knew there was a ceiling and that spending recklessly
was a fad that wouldn't last. What happens when the cards are maxed? Credit-card spending shifted our
country's aggregate demand curve and we demanded more of everything. But it was artificial money, propped
up on hot air. And it was our economy for many years.

I didn't see all of it coming, but I saw a lot of it.

Now, I sit here--seeing even more implosion. Basically the media has desperately tried to convince us
that "things are getting better" or "things will get better" or this is a "double dip recession" or
a "U-shaped recession." Their memes are based on the unsubstantiated claim that tough economic times
are just a blip and we'll be back to normal soon.

Bullshit. Our economic engine was fueled by debt spending. We used credit cards, tapped into home equity
for furniture and vacations and spent like crazed monkeys. All of that is gone now. Government programs
have infused some cash into the system, but it's all coming down like a house of cards.

So---what should we do? I don't know! I'd love to hear what others have to say. I am saving money--as
much as I can--to prepare for a job loss or a worsening of the economy. Cash is king. We got out of
the stock market in 2007, after I begged and pleaded with my husband.

I wish I had all of the answers. I think this OP has merit, but I don't think we can really know the
truth, because the media, our politicians and the corporations are all lying to us about everything.

All you can do is try to protect yourself and prepare for any eventuality.

[Silent3]

33. I just responded to another post where someone says...

"Hyperinflation will be the final blow". If that's the future, then cash is NOT king.

I'm in a good cash position now, with no debt except my mortgage. I could lose my job and go for a quite while without a paycheck, even longer if I tapped my 401(k). If the housing market didn't go bust at the same time I was out of work, as a final act of desperation I could sell the house that I have a lot of equity in now to survive even longer.

Without hyperinflation, I'm already in a good position to eek out a living for years without a job. With hyperinflation... well, not much you can do to prepare but buy precious metals or, knowing that even those might be hard to trade, buying up stockpiles of goods people in a Depression would be eager for. Once you start going that route, however, it starts to sound a bit unhinged, one step short of building a shack in the woods and starting to write your manifesto, even if the possibility of an even bigger economic crash is real.

[femrap]

84. I believe

people should be gardening, maybe investing in a greenhouse. Food will be important. Stock up. Learn how to bake bread. I bought a bread machine. Bartering may occur. Maybe buy some red wines and liquor to trade.

I never thought I would have a gun, but I do now. Cash is king NOW....stock up. Toilet paper, essentials of living. I bought a Pur water filter system.

We're going to go back to BASICS. I'm old so I remember how to be practical. I have always detested debt. And I have electronics...so I guess I'm lucky.

But I do like those new cable TV shows, 'White Collar' and 'Leverage' and 'The Closer.' That's my one treat. I guess that'll be the last thing for people to give up. Or would it be their cell phones?

[phasma ex machina]

106. +1 Learn how to grow your own food to eat and for barter. Become a part of a community.

BTW in the 1990 movie "The Closer" Danny Aiello stars as a corporate business suit (eg psychopath) who goes on a massive ego trip, drives his family, friends, and business associates away, then ends up all alone on the roof of his 40 story downtown office building raging at the top of his lungs to an uncaring, deaf world.
:rofl:

[femrap]

115. I missed that movie....

I'll have to rent it. Thanks.

[askeptic]

92. Don't agree with hyperinflation scenario

Inflation is too much money chasing too few goods. Unless we see a whole lot of wage increase, it is not likely that folks are going to have a lot of extra money to continue to inflate the price of things. I continue to think that cash will be king, just as it was in the 30's. I would also be reluctant to buy precious metals at this time - it seems to me that it is in a fear-driven bubble, and that you could very well be buying well into or near the bubble's peak.

While it's true there are some who argue that the printing press can debase the value of the money, our biggest issue as a country is going to be debt. Lord knows, they've been trying like crazy to inflate the money in order to re-create the bubble economy, but as can be seen, with a huge portion of the population in debt and unemployed, it's pretty hard to do.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

73. Regarding "cash is king."

Our family has taken many of the same steps as yours over the last few years for we, as well, saw much of this coming.
we refinanced with a fixed rate fifteen year loan in order to pay off our mortgage more quickly. We live well below our
means. We've joined a credit union and use one credit card which is paid off monthly. we invested 25% of our savings in
gold when it was in the $300 an ounce range. We have created a community pea patch with a like minded group of people
and are growing an increasing percentage of our own food and having a great experience doing it.

My concern is the vulnerability of the dollar and what will happen to the "cash" or savings some of us have. Whether that
money is in CD's, Money Markets etc. it will become virtually worthless if all this comes to pass. I see few options to avoid
this while at the same time I'm sure this is going to happen. Cash, in my opinion is not king, but soon to be worthless paper.

[CoffeeCat]

120. We are struggling with the...

refinancing issue. We want to go to a 15yr mortgage. Rates are incredibly low. However, I feel
that we're now at the 10th or l1th hour. If we re-fi--then we have a bigger monthly payment, and at
this point--my goal is to save as much cash as possible.

Like you, I'm not sure if that will do us any good.

I get the sense that the economy will topple like a house of cards. It just feels as if the
entire thing is propped up on very little right now. Like a house of cards, it's deceiving--because
you can see the structure there--but it's still standing. So you rationalize that the structure
might not be so unstable. But it only takes that one card to reveal just how hollow the entire thing
was, for so long. I sense that it will take one event or one blow--and the entire thing goes down
with little warning. People will be scrambling toward the banks, but it will be too late. Do you
get that sense too?

Nice investment decision on the gold at $300. Amazing. Your community pea patch sounds very interesting.
Our yard is not condusive to gardening. Too much shade. However, we know where the good apple trees are
in town, in the parks and I did buy an apple picker. I am a great stockpiler too--and we have at least 5 months
of stockpiled food, and plent of good barter items (coffee, etc.). I combine coupons with sales and get
many things free at the grocery store. I've turned it into a hobby to build the stockpile. I guess I'm
compensating for the lack of gardening that we do.

Best of luck to you. Sounds like you've made some very clever decisions. Plus, you know people who you
describe as "like minded." I think that will be key in the future.

[snot]

31. Um, a lot of DU'er's have pretty much done just that.

A lot of Du'er's have/has eliminated all debt, cut expenditures in half, piled up what cash we could, stockpiled necessities.

We're usually shouted down when we try to warn others; but that doesn't mean we don't exist.

[Silent3]

34. I could certainly live a lot more austerely than I am now...

...but as I said in another post, I'm saving a lot of money as it is, and have no debt other than my mortgage. That wouldn't help much, however, if the future holds hyperinflation as one of its big problems. I can't really see myself turning survivalist and stocking up on supplies like I'm building an old Cold War bomb shelter, however.

At any rate, I know a few people are doing as you say you're doing, but I'd guess they're still a small minority of the people heartily agreeing with the OP.

[girl gone mad]

89. I think it's senseless to worry about hyperinflation..

as long as we've got double digit unemployment and massive capacity under-utilization.

[Art_from_Ark]

38. I've seen the writing on the wall since the '70s

I really haven't had much of an extravagant lifestyle to begin with, although I will admit that the '90s were an exceptional economic time for me and I didn't save as much money during that time as I should have. But as far as radical changes go, I've had to cut back a little, but my economic lifestyle hasn't changed that much in the last 25 years or so--

Have only basic cable
Pay off credit card bills in full whenever possible
Use car very sparingly, mostly for work, combine shopping trips with work commutes
Use a bicycle whenever possible
Use the heater and air conditioner sparingly, take advantage of natural solar heating (open curtains of south-facing windows on sunny days in winter, etc)
Take advantage of free entertainment
Plant a vegetable garden
Don't get loans for stuff I don't really need
Don't eat out a lot, take advantage of sales/discounts of stuff that I would normally eat or drink

[Silent3]

96. Since the '70s?

If you lived your entire life bracing for a big financial collapse, chances are that concern would eventually be realized. That we made it since the '30s without any huge economic crisis until now is amazing. At least one such crisis in a normal human lifespan isn't that surprising a thing. I wouldn't go patting myself on the back too hard for my remarkable foresight for making a prediction of economic calamity that takes 30-40 years to manifest.

Perhaps a frugal lifestyle can be its own reward in some ways, and helpful to the environment, but that's a lot of time starting in the '70s to spend curtailing the enjoyment of the moment in fear of an eventual economic meltdown.

[Art_from_Ark]

111. Let me clarify-- I did not say "economic collapse" in my post

but was rather referring to "economic difficulties"-- that is, economically, it became apparent to me that the deck was being stacked against the average citizen.

In the '70s, inflation was eating away at savings and fixed incomes, in the '80s it was becoming apparent that the average Joe couldn't depend on being employed at the same company long enough to be able to collect a decent pension. At the same time, greed was taking over Wall Street (at least, they weren't making an attempt to hide it), and investors celebrated when people were being fired, er, laid off, by raising the stock price. On top of that, wages were flat or lagging behind the inflation rate. In the '90s, it seemed like that was being turned around, but with the advent of bu$h, our so-called leaders were becoming pretty brazen about how the moneyed elite were being favored over the little guy. It has reached the point where today, just about anyone's job can be subject to outsourcing or insourcing, company pension plans are becoming a thing of the past, inflation is eating away at fixed incomes, there is no interest on savings or relatively safe investments, catastrophic illness can wipe out a lifetime of savings. Will all this eventually lead to economic collapse? I don't know. But I don't see things changing significantly for the better.

[Art_from_Ark]

112. In summary

This has been a gradual transition toward greater economic difficulties (I won't say "collapse").

1970s-- High inflation that was rising faster than incomes, neither Republicans nor Democrats seemed to be able to do anything about it. People on fixed incomes and low-wage workers were especially hurting. I get rather nervous thinking about my job prospects after graduation, parents' pensions, etc.

1980s-- From the frying pan into the fire. Reagan Recession. Reagan thumbs his nose at working people, but they vote for him anyway :puke: Inflation brought down, but wages flat, factory work is being farmed out overseas (while Japan is pressured to build auto and other factories in the US), Reagan and Republicans mess with Social Security, can barely show hide their contempt for low income people.

1990s-- Clinton takes over. I am living overseas by the time, with no Internet and only crappy CNN International and AFRTS news blurbs to keep me informed of US economic news, so I am not too aware of what's going on back home. Clinton was my state's governor for 12 years, he seemed to have done a better than average job, so I assumed he was doing a decent job with the US economy. I finally get a decent income in Japan and enjoy a bit of it. I actually did feel somewhat comfortable with Clinton at the helm. I had no idea about NAFTA. I also had no idea that the SEC had become pretty toothless in enforcing securities laws until it was too late.

2000s-- bu$h era. Top priority given to rich elite, almost no priority given to middle and lower classes. Budget surplus is instantly turned into budget deficit. bu$h drains Treasury for his wars, tried to damage Social Security. US dollar loses values versus other currencies. Interest rates on savings fall precipitously. Many big name stocks plummet, losing countless billions for investors. 401k values plummet.

2010s-- Increasing trend of outsourcing and insourcing. Trillions of new dollars created (in a continuation of the bu$h era), US dollar reaches 15-year low versus the yen. Catfood Commission may propose dramatic adverse changes in Social Security. Company pension plans virtually non-existant or not reliable. Interest rates on savings are nil, even long-term CD rates are next to nothing.

[Art_from_Ark]

113. In other words

There has a transition toward greater economic difficulties (I won't say "collapse") since the 1970s.

1970s-- High inflation that was rising faster than incomes, neither Republicans nor Democrats seemed to be able to do anything about it. People on fixed incomes and low-wage workers were especially hurting. I get rather nervous thinking about my job prospects after graduation, parents' pensions, etc.

1980s-- From the frying pan into the fire. Reagan Recession. Dismantling of Great Society programs. Reagan thumbs his nose at working people, but they vote for him anyway :puke: Inflation brought down, but wages flat, factory work is being farmed out overseas (while Japan is pressured to build auto and other factories in the US), Reagan and Republicans mess with Social Security, can barely hide their contempt for low-income people.

1990s-- Clinton takes over. I am living overseas at that time, with no Internet and only crappy CNN International and AFRTS news blurbs to keep me informed of US economic news, so I am not too aware of what's going on back home. Clinton was my state's governor for 12 years, he seemed to have done a better than average job, so I assumed he was doing a decent job with the US economy. I finally get a decent income in Japan and enjoy a bit of it. I actually did feel somewhat comfortable with Clinton at the helm. I had no idea about NAFTA. I also had no idea that the SEC had become pretty toothless in enforcing securities laws until it was too late.

2000s-- bu$h era. Top priority given to rich elite, almost no priority given to middle and lower classes. Budget surplus is instantly turned into budget deficit. bu$h drains Treasury for his wars, tries to damage Social Security. US dollar loses values versus other currencies. Interest rates on savings fall precipitously. Many big name stocks plummet, losing countless billions for investors. 401k values plummet.

2010s-- Increasing trend of outsourcing and insourcing. Trillions of new dollars created (in a continuation of the bu$h era), US dollar reaches 15-year low versus the yen. Catfood Commission may propose dramatic adverse changes in Social Security. Company pension plans virtually non-existant or not reliable. Interest rates on savings are nil, even long-term CD rates are next to nothing.

[northernlights]

44. it's pretty much too late

"I should sell by big house with the big mortgage payments and big property taxes while the selling is still good, pile up cash (presuming hyperinflation isn't a predicted part of this supposed coming meltdown)"

Most people are stuck with the houses they own now. I tried to sell mine into last year's "window of opportunity" and the realtor deliberately kept it *off* the market until that window closed. They dragged their feet listing it, dragged their feet putting it onto realtor.com, gave an incredibly lame description...and then didn't bother to return prospect calls (one of them stopped when they saw my car in the driveway...said they'd tried calling and the realtor never called back). My guess is what few buyers they come up with they steer to friends and family in or near foreclosure.

So what happens is if you're like me, and your house is paid off, you do *everything* you can to cut expenses. Last year I closed off as much house as I could with blankets hanging in doorways, and then kept my thermostat at 55 tops and wore double sweats and a knit hat even to bed with my 2 large dogs. I will be growing much of my own food starting next year. I also just invested in a solar oven and have been cooking and freezing food like crazy. I use my propane stove as *little* as possible. I've also cut my showering in half or more, and will continue with that.

If you're like everybody else and have a big mortgage, you do everything you can to hang on until you are foreclosed on.

If I had been able to sell my house, I would have downsized drastically in house to a cabin on larger acreage near but not directly in one of the little villages around here. As it is, I'm ok, but not where I had hoped/planned to be. I interviewed 6 realtors...I don't think it really would have matter which I'd gone with. :(

[krabigirl]

105. Well, selling the house with the big mortgage is nearly impossible in many areas right now.

[Silent3]

107. Not in my area

Things might be a little slow, but selling a house isn't too difficult in my neck of the woods (southern NH), and I have enough equity in the house to come down a bit in price to speed things up and still walk away with a good bit of cash.

But that's still just hypothetical because I can't really see getting that worked up about one prediction of "the heart of darkness", which was my main point anyway. Yes, I know on DU you can find a few people who've practically gone into survivalist bunker mode, but there's a lot more people oddly eager to agree that disaster is looming (nearly any prediction of disaster, not just this particular economic one) while not acting, when it really comes down to it, in a way that's consistent with real deep belief in such predictions.

[lonestarnot]

28. Hyperinflation will be the final blow.

[Silent3]

30. Hmmm... should we all stock up on gold coins now?

Glenn Beck would love that. Or maybe convert whatever money we now have into big stockpiles of whiskey, penicillin, and gasoline... the currencies of the future! :) :sarcasm:

[Art_from_Ark]

39. Forget about Glenn Beck

If Glenn Beck's followers were the only ones buying gold, the price would still be in the $200's. Or lower. You've got a huge field of players involved here, including China, India, various central banks, and average Joes and Janes around the world who are concerned about the massive amounts of fiat currencies that are being cranked out. But speaking as someone who has had an interest in the gold market since 1968, I wouldn't recommend buying coins to people who have no experience with gold investments, certainly not at these levels.

[Ifonly]

46. What is problem with buying gold?

"But speaking as someone who has had an interest in the gold market since 1968, I wouldn't recommend buying coins to people who have no experience with gold investments, certainly not at these levels."


And why is that? I have a lot of money in bank and I have been kicking myself for years for not converting it all to gold. If I had done so back in 2004 or so when I first heard some people saying "You should buy gold", I would have about 3 times as much money now. And all I hear is that it's value is going to continue to increase. Is there something complicated about buying gold (something that would require one to have a load of experience with it). Seems pretty straight forward to me. I don't want all the money I have to loose its value, and I don't know any other way I could do that but to convert it to gold or something like that (unless there exists something I really wish existed, which is a special bank or credit-union that would actually guarantee your money would not loose its value, but as far as I know, these don't exist). But I certainly am in the category of "no experience with gold investments", so any help you can contribute to my understanding on this is much appreciated.

[wuvuj]

56. Gold and gold stocks...

...can be one of the most volatile investments you can make. Ever heard of not putting all your eggs in one basket? "They" say 10% in gold max.

If I could use a rear view mirror to invest I'd be rich....that is...you look back at what has done well...and say WHAT IF...it WILL drive you crazy.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

94. Gold Stocks and ETF's are a big no no.

There is a lot of speculation the brokerage firms selling gold stocks and ETF's DO NOT have the physical gold to support those
sales. Google it and read what some experts are predicting will be the next big scam. If you buy gold, by gold coins, coins minted
by Governments.

[Art_from_Ark]

75. Like I said, I've been following gold for 42 years

The first gold coin I ever bought, back in 1968, was a tiny Mexican token that had about a half gram of gold in it. Price then-- $2. Price now-- $20, representing an increase of 10X. But the gold price has risen about 36X in the same period. So you have to know what you're buying.

It took me a long time to figure out the gold market-- and that was at a time when it wasn't so volatile. Even back then, you had to be wary of fakes-- and less-than-honest dealers. Today, you also have to be wary of "hyper-sellers" who take such a big profit for themselves that it will take you a long time to recover your investment.

If you're really interested in the gold market, I suggest that you start by looking at some coin hobby publications, like Coin World or Numismatic News, to get an idea of what is happening in the gold market from a reasonably unbiased source, as well as to get a feel for what mainstream dealers are buying and selling gold coins for. You can also PM me if you want to. I have no interest in selling gold to anyone on this web site, only an interest in educating people about gold so that they don't get burned if they decide to take the plunge. :hi:

[EmeraldCityGrl]

77. One of the currencies of the future will be water.

Get ready to pay outlandish prices for water. There are plenty of documentaries available depicting the situation to come.

Our community sold it's private well to a private company in the fifties. We've already decided if things get desperate we
will take it back by force if we need to. A piece of land with a private well with plentiful access to water is a good investment.

[conspirator]

119. Scary shit. There will be wars for water n/t

[Zanzobar]

36. I don't see why opinion should have to be refuted with fact

You put 100 economists in a room and you'll have how many opinions?

[phasma ex machina]

108. 200 (Counting hedging doublespeak.) nt

[LiberalAndProud]

37. Dim vision of the future.

I wonder who benefits most from a climate of fear? Somehow I don't think it's us. The best thing Reagan had going for him was that he was able to lift the cloak of pessimism and doom that had so thoroughly enveloped our national psyche. This article is a weave of that same texture.

Repent! The end is near!

I guess I'll reserve judgment until November, since that will be the first marker of accuracy. If all the angry voters turn out at the polls and Washington ends up in a deadlock, maybe I'll buy a gun and end it all.

Or maybe I won't.

[truedelphi]

91. Reality is reality.

The concepts portrayed in the "opinions" of the OP's source are not new.

In fact, our own Autorank has been talking about similiar cocnepts since Fall 2008.

The only problem here on Du is that hte many Loyalists who believe the best way to "
The two central problems relating to tour economy are these:

1) There are no jobs - and there haven't been for at least a decade, except for the made up jobs of "flipping houses" (Hard work indeed, I don't mean to scoff at people who put in new foundations, tile, painted, refinished, dragged out old carpeting and put in new.) The concept behind the "flipping" of houses was that it would be go on forever, with a perpetual 19 to 40% increase in house prices.

When the housing market tanked, all the House Flippers, realtors, trades people, mortgage brokers etc went out of work. The restaurants where they ate, the stores that sold them the computers where they did their designs and kept their busines files, everything tanked along with that industry.

Since states need property taxes to inflate their coffers, when housing prices take a dive, then the state coffers go bust too. So now teachers, fire fighters, social workers, project managers etc are now out of work.

And the government cannot figure out how torestore the economy. The housing market was a "bubble" and since the banks that received our Bailout monies are not putting it into local businesses or a new Bubble, we are not seeing any real job base re-enter the economy.

2) The "Housing" bubble and its casino events that it inspired on Wall Street - the CDO, and Credit Default Swaps, all those totalled over a half quadrillion bucks in losses. Even though our Fed Reserve has offered up the bbanks abut 12 to 14 trillion bucks, most of that half quadrillion bucks worth of losses still needs to be absorbed - or else to be legislatively decreed out of existence. But the Wall St interests own our Congress - so it will NOT be legislated out of existence...

How much is a half qudrillion? Well, if you knocked down every tree, bush and piece of grass to obatain the printed paper to pay the bill, it would not proivde enough material to pay the debt.

We are really screwn.

[Papa Boule]

40. What a setup -- an economic perfect storm

It's going to get really, really ugly. And austerity at the worst possible time will make it that much worse.

Leaders will be afraid. Scapegoats will be sought. Populist demagogues will rise up and label some.

And corporations have the power now to greatly influence or shape the narrative through the whole thing.

Fasten your seatbelts. It's going to be a bumpy night.

[reggie the dog]

41. hmm

Supporters of the « Tea Party (14) » and « new secessionist (15) » movements... want to « break the Washington Machine » (and by extension that of Wall Street) without having feasible proposals to solve the country’s myriad problems (16)


get pissed, destroy .....sounds like anarchy is making a comeback

[Panaconda]

47. That's not anarchy

Your mis-characterization of anarchy is understandable given the amount of propaganda devoted to the topic but still you've got it all wrong.

[reggie the dog]

49. i just said generic anarcy

not anarcho syndicalism
in my opinion there are lots of different kinds of anarchy,

anarcho syndicalism like in the "paris commune" or in chicago around the time of the haymarket rebellion

that is anarchy with a focus on destroying a corrupt system and rebuilding a system from the grassroots up with lots of input from the masses

then you have right wing anarchy, symbolized by the utter disreagard for law and life displayed by many corporations, they destroy the lives of workers in an effort to destroy the progress workers have made in an effort to rebuild a system from the corporation down

then you have clique anarchy, such as the latin kings, or the crips, organizations which operate outside of the system, destroy some lives for the benefit of their clique and actually do things like before school meals for poor kids

tea party anarchy is just general disdain for a government they dont agree with, they are actually foot soldiers of right wing anarchy seeing as they support the destruction of our standard of living by supporting tea partiers who mostly work for the large multi nationals (which i deem right wing anarchists, quite in contrast to the anarchist unionists

[reggie the dog]

50. this too

"Supporters of the « Tea Party (14) » and « new secessionist (15) » movements... want to « break the Washington Machine » (and by extension that of Wall Street)"

i disagree with this, this would be anarcho syndicalism, destroy the corrupt system and then, throught local grass roots unions and organizing, build it up in a different manner, but the tea party, i argue, really wants to help the right wing anarchists, the almighty multi national corporations, in their quest to subvert labor laws around the world, the tea party is far right wing economically, generally laissez faire, which is at odds with regulatory systems.

[Panaconda]

51. There are no right wing anarchists, impossible

Anarchy is a political philosophy of the left no matter what the news people say. There are plenty of right-wing capitalists and hence the violence.

In any case I suspect we are on the same page even if I'm a stickler for getting the terms right.

Take care.

[reggie the dog]

53. the idea of right wing anarchy possibly existing

is the idea i have been kicking around for a few months to do a phd on, since left wing anarcho syndicalist movements put enough pressure on govts and companies that our standards of living increased the right wing laissez faire model of the time of dickens has been made illegal in many countries, so now the oligarch have to go about destroying a system and an economic class of peopld (workers) in order to increase the living standard of their people (the already rich) they destroy cities (flint, detroit,) destroy lives (of the people who used to work in their factories or now who cant find work because the jobs left) and are using "illegal" methods such as bribes, threats, etc, and just leaving countries to do an end around labor laws. as were the left wing anarchists in the paris commune (at least they were for a short time) the modern right wing anarchist movement is more powerful than the existing government, the difference is that the anarcho syndicalists justified their action becuase it was good for the greatest number of people whereas the new right wing anarchy goes for the common good of the haves and the have mores (they buy candidates who work for them, candidates who consider them their base)


do you think my idea is way off base or is it possible that right wing anarchy can exist once systems in place actually favored workers??? of course there is still left wing anarchy, Greece is better than france for that

[Tsiyu]

59. anarchy

per webster: general disorder due to lack of government


We most definitely live in a time of corporate anarchy.

Iraq, Wall Street, Katrina, America's Prison State, BP's Gulf Blowout are all shining examples of the chaos and mayhem and destruction resulting from a lack of government oversight of corporate behavior.

[Panaconda]

74. Webster's wrong

Throw that definition away as it is laden with cultural accretions. If you wish to go into this further we can do a separate thread.

There is no such thing as "corporate anarchism." It is by definition impossible.

[CJCRANE]

83. "Anarcho-capitalism":

"Anarcho-capitalism (also known as “libertarian anarchy” or “market anarchism” or “free market anarchism” is a libertarian and individualist anarchist political philosophy that advocates the elimination of the state and the elevation of the sovereign individual in a free market.

Economist Murray Rothbard is credited with coining the term. In an anarcho-capitalist society, law enforcement, courts, and all other security services would be provided by voluntarily-funded competitors such as private defense agencies rather than through taxation, and money would be privately and competitively provided in an open market.

According to anarcho-capitalists, personal and economic activities would be regulated by the natural laws of the market and through private law rather than through politics. Furthermore, victimless crimes and crimes against the state would not exist."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism

[Panaconda]

85. Rothbard

is a blowhard. I've had the unfortunate displeasure of being subjected to him pontificating about many things (mostly himself) over the course of a weekend up at Goddard a few years back.

I think I'll coin a new term anarcho-libertarian-marxism-liberal-progressive-left-right-benevolent free market-social-capitalism.

Maybe I should've just called my new catch-all Ralph.

[CJCRANE]

65. There is anarcho-capitalism

in places like Somalia.

That kind of anarchism is often equated with Libertarianism.

[fasttense]

42. What you have posted are NOT facts.

They are simply someone's opinions.

I disagree with some of those opinions and agree with others. The writer sees a coming financial crisis, which I agree with. But, the writer seems to get there with some wrong assumptions.

For example: "Now the first half of 2011 will dictate that the US economy take an unprecedented dose of austerity."

Oh really? Why? How?

Not that President Obama would halt an austerity plan in the middle of a recession, but what are the facts that point to the austerity route? Already the budget deficit is down from 6 to 13% depending on what numbers you believe. So, since the administration is touting how they lowered the deficit, why would they push for more austerity? True the Cat Food Commission is due out a report but will it really have any impact? Or will it likely go the way of that review of the wars bush had after the 2006 elections?

So overall I agree with the post but the details make some huge assumptions with no facts to back them.

[northernlights]

45. that is quite true. they also left something pretty major out of their assumptions

The IMF recently reversed course and stopped calling for austerity, instead calling for stimulus to create demand. That was pretty big.

[florida08]

48. thanks to SarahB and Ghost Dog

When 1 in 7 are at or below the poverty line, and that number has increased from last year, and we're working our ass off to make it, it's painfully obvious where we're headed. This synopsis is accurate. The trade deficit is worse now than in the 30's. So is the housing crisis. The jobless rate is almost nationwide what is was then. In some states it's worse. Any hint of recovery will be swallowed up by inflation. If republicans get their numbers they so desperately want we will definately enter into "the heart of darkness".

[burnsei sensei]

55. Stupidity and greed march on.

The political/economic elite will not stop them.
The people will have to step in.

[hayu_lol]

57. Fully concur with most comments and the original post...

the banks will 'get theirs' when most just simply quit paying on the credit card debt. Banks have not been 'prudent.' That is a word that bankers used to use when explaining why joe and mary smith couldn't get small loans years ago. Banks have become loan sharks,

This will play out. What is obvious is, that even as wounded as we collectively are, when we go down...the world goes down with us.

For those who have little debt, excellent cash reserves, and plenty of other sources of income(in whatever form is spendable), this is the time to consider moving to a 3rd world country where they can sit this disaster out.

Depression is a nasty word. It is even worse to have to live through one.

[burnsei sensei]

64. At the founding of this country,

and even in the present day, the banker is thought of as brother to the con-man and cousin to the thief.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

58. K&R AND bkmrkd.

:web: :patriot:

[mistertrickster]

60. I've been saying this for years . . . when Reagan crushed the unions and sent the jobs overseas to

help "corporate profits," he started the beginning of the end of American prosperity.

If the middle class doesn't have any money, it can't buy anything.

We're seeing the effects of that writ large right now. There may not be any "recovery" to this recession. This may be what the future looks like for a couple of generations -- no jobs, no wage growth, slow or no productivity growth -- until we embrace an economic model that distributes wealth to the people who have created it (as opposed to the people who financed it).

[Starry Messenger]

62. k & r

[Michigan-Arizona]

63. K&R

[FirstLight]

66. I don't pretend to understand all the economic details...

so forgive me for asking what may seem like some stupid questions...

BUT...

Firstly, why is the article predicting the rethugs and tea partiers will gain seats? Why are they so sure that the next move will be to stop moving forward? that bugs me and makes me wonder what side of the fence they are coming from...

next, so, if you are already poor, are you just screwn? Will foodstamps and the like just dry up and those of us who can;t survive will be left to riot for loaves of bread?

finally, if you HAVE money...be it stocks, real estate, etc, what's the best course of action? Liquidate everything and stash your cash? or re-invest in a bombshelter and food?

I understand that things may get worse before they get better - but knowing that should make it easier to try and DO something to fix it... can WE the people make a shift in economic paradigm without the corporations and govt's help? what if WE actually started to change our LOCAL way of doing things...bartering, farmer's markets, co-ops etc... I personally would like to think we can do this. And leave the corporations to just eat eachother while we find a better way to thrive... but I guess I am just an idealist ;)

[defendandprotect]

71. Agree...the enemy is capitalism/corporatism....yet we're all walking around supporting that system

every day!!

Daily we go out with our little bank cards and make the banksters even richer!!

There are many ways we can unite and show our displeasure from right where we are!

[FirstLight]

76. yep, I am about to just pull my cash out for good...

after getting screwn one more time for stupid fees that they use to 'domino' my account into oblivion, and being on the tanf/foodstamp limited income...I am about to just start using the first bank of Serta!

I have been saying for a while now that I think 'wampum' is on its way back in... we should be focusing more on LOCAL economy and sustainability as much as possible, because that is what will sustain US. Get out there and ask your neighbors if they wanna pitch in on a neighborhood garden project...find out of the local grocer uses regional farmers for produce and meat, start making our sphere of needs smaller...
if the dollar were to dry up tomorrow, what would YOU need the most? Figure that out and make friends with your local provider of that thing, start a symbiotic relationship with all your peeps...mechanic, electrician, etc...

[defendandprotect]

79. Would be great if we could uninvent the dollar bill....and I think urgent for

communities to begin to think of energy and food supplies --

So far, we can't even get our Town Council to create an official Environmental

Protection agenda -- though somehow we are getting solar panels on our library roof!

Every time I see the acres of cars at our train station I think how insane it is --

still no town trolley here -- still no way for anyone to get to station except by car!

A few use bikes, but .... needless to say, only in good weather.

We hear of informal studies which suggest that train passengers have the money for cars

and not interested in trolley or other "to the train" transportation!!

[Fire1]

102. In answer to your first question, it's predicated on the anger

and displeasure of our youth, AA, retirees and unemployed who WILL NOT VOTE!! Yeah, sorta like shooting yourself in the foot!

[Raksha]

123. An economic paradigm shift is the ONLY thing that will save our asses, FirstLight.

Re "...can WE the people make a shift in economic paradigm without the corporations and govt's help? what if WE actually started to change our LOCAL way of doing things...bartering, farmer's markets, co-ops etc... I personally would like to think we can do this. And leave the corporations to just eat eachother while we find a better way to thrive... but I guess I am just an idealist."

I'm another idealist, and I've thought along the same lines as you for a while now. We've come to the point where idealism and practicality are the same. But the thing is, where to start when you're on a fixed income and already living hand-to-mouth? I've got lots of great ideas, but can't even afford to patronize my organic co-op any more. It gets pretty depressing.

[Rex]

67. Most consumers went into a financial depression when gas went to 5 - 6 dollars a gallon.

Oh, not so long ago. Others it was losing their house/job (livelihood) without any safety net (bye bye middle class). Our American govt is set up to make money off of the consumer...but takes no consideration into what happens when consumers lose the ability to buy (taxes?). When it happens to a hundred people the govt just scoffs...when it happens to 10 million people the govt still seems to yawn and go back to sleep. Guess we will see when it happens to 100 million people. Shame we have to go there.

The govt seems to always be run by a ship of fools.

[defendandprotect]

68. Shouldn't Obama and Democrats in Congress be doing something ....?????

Obama -- probably almost two months ago now -- was quoted as calling this a "Depression."

It was quickly scrubbed and "Recession" reinserted, but it was said.

Some in Congress have long been referring to this as the "Great Recession."

Obama needs a huge push to get him moving on creating jobs - REAL JOBS -- we have

infrastructure failing all over the US -- we have housing to build, repair and replace!

Meanwhile, what is Obama doing except trying to destroy public education?

And throw more taxpayer dollars at corporations ???

And, Obama's Bernanke at the FED is assuring us they will act if the economy requires it!!

WHERE ARE OBAMA AND THE DEMOCRACTS???

THEY--NOT THE FEDS-- ARE ELECTED TO MANAGE OUR ECONOMY!!

[defendandprotect]

69. Obviously, the easiest way to destroy democracy and human rights is by bankrupting the Treasury!!

And these wars which Obama has kept going -- the lack of jobs and universal health

care -- are paving theway for a third world America -- while Obama sits in the White

House surrounded by DLC-Rahm and the corporate "team" -- !!!!

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON???

We need a liberal/progressive Democrat to decide this is the right time to contest

this pro-corporate president!!

[EmeraldCityGrl]

99. The wars.

First post in this entire discussion that brings up the elephant in the living room.

We can not afford the military as it currently exists!!!!! We're going down in flames
but damn we have the best military in the world. Somehow I have never felt less "safe."

[defendandprotect]

110. Agree with you --

plus privatization of every part of government --

and a vast new prison industrial complex!

Somehow I have never felt less "safe."

Me, too --






:eyes:

[Joanne98]

78. Reaganomics!

[Yavin4]

88. We're In A Deflationary Downward Spiral, Not Hyperinflation

The CPI just came out and it shows that overall inflation is falling or flat. Once you're in a deflationary death spiral, the only play to call is Keynesian economics, something our policy makers simply won't do.

[Greyhound]

117. Hyperinflation has nothing to do with the CPI.

Economic inflation occurs when there are too many dollars chasing too few products.

Hyperinflation is caused by a collapse of confidence in a currency. Nobody will buy the notes and the government is forced to monetize their debt resulting in a devaluation of the currency to a level approaching zero.

[Fire1]

90. Outfuckinstandin, Sarah'B!! I hate to say it, but alot of this

is easily predictable. One can plainly see the handwriting on the wall! You want a "factual" retort? Repealing NAFTA would have at least prolonged the life of this economic system, at least, temporarily. I'm a socialist, so I hope this shit crumbles beyond recogition. I'm just sorry it had to be under this administration.

edit: Bookmarking

[TBF]

95. Similarly I wouldn't mind seeing the whole thing crash,

but I realize there is going to be a lot of pain attached to it. Of course, we have a lot of pain already out there. There has got to be a better way to live than enslaved to capitalism.

[Fire1]

100. Well, the funny thing is, the pending destruction of this total

financial system, here and in Europe, is being blamed on "all the socialist welfare state economies." It's been said that capitalism is being systematically destroyed by socialist progressives, private and public sector unions, crony capitalists and banksters. Imagine that!! The next few years should be very interesting.

[Recursion]

98. Remember when the Fed abolished the M3 to hide Iran's oil bourse pricing in euros?

It seems so long ago, since the entire capitalist system was destroyed by that fact :eyes:

Call me when something happens.

[obxhead]

101. We can avoid all of this with one SIMPLE solution.

End the 2 wars. No slow pullout, no 2 to 10 year plan. Send the planes and ships and pull every troop out of Iraq and Afghanistan right now. Then redirect every bit of funding going to fighting those 2 wars into rebuilding the infrastructure of the US.

It's really simple. It will just take a better leader with a bigger set to do it.

[Fire1]

103. Ok but everybody's not a construction worker. n/t

[obxhead]

104. Not only construction workers would be needed to rebuild our

infrastructure.

I've done quite a bit of construction work myself for a moderately sized company. We had architects, payroll staff, human resources staff, delivery drivers, and people to keep materials coming.

There were injuries involved which had to go to doctors at hospitals or small emergency clinics.

It will take more than people with shovels to rebuild our infrastructure.

[maryf]

109. kick

thanks.

[dipsydoodle]

114. Too late to rec

but its the thought that counts.

[blindpig]

116. Our 'Masters of the Universe' are whistling past the boneyard.

They can't fix it because the problem is inherent contradictions of the system.

The only 'fix' for this is massive government hiring, by the millions. But apparently the effect this would have on wages, causing them to rise, makes that unpalatable to our Capitalist masters and thus their government.

[shanti]

122. k&r!

n/t