Freepers mock 2 ABC journalists shot dead in Iraq (but we're mean for Falwell comments?)

[Grebrook]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1835811/posts

[Pawel K]

1. what the fuck is wrong with these people? nt

[deadmessengers]

3. the same thing that was wrong with us

This is no different from the mass urination on Falwell's grave that took place here earlier this week. No different at all.

[Dark]

5. Uh, yes it is. Falwell made people's many people's lives hell. What did these journalists do?

[deadmessengers]

9. Irrelevant

It's still grave-dancing, and it's still disgusting.

[Zenlitened]

44. Irrelevant? The context of a person's life becomes irrelevant...

... at the moment they die?

:wow:

[ima_sinnic]

49. yeah, "etiquette" is more impt than anything!

hey, guess what? people "grave dance" when an oppressor goes down! get over it!
too bad the high & mighty sanctimonious handwringers like yourself, who apparently have as much warmth and human feeling as an ice cube, can't be all over the world chastizing those who have so "disgustingly" danced on the graves of people like Pol Pot, Batista, Roberto D'Aubuisson (ha ha, the EVIL shit who assassinated Archbishop Romero and sent out the Salvadoran death squads died a painful death of stomach cancer and I AM GLAD--boo hoo, isn't that "disgusting"?), Papa Doc Duvalier, Pinochet, Adolf Hitler, Stalin -- need I go on?
I'm sure your opinion would have been warmly embraced in, oh, Poland in May 1945, oh most condescending, self-righteous "polite" one.
oh, and don't bother blathering about how Falwell was "nothing like those dictators"--he was a smarmy overweight creep whose lies, distortions, and officially sanctioned hatred have caused the death and suffering of countless thousands--among gays and lesbians most obviously, but women, nonwhites, and atheists have also been discounted, marginalized, trivialized, ridiculed, and persecuted by inspiration from his hate-filled rhetoric.

I keep forgetting how many true Falwell fans there really are on this board--those are the only ones I could imagine would be "offended" by grave-pissers.

[Atman]

13. Falwell made some hateful statements. He didn't do a damn thing otherwise.

He didn't make anyone's life a living hell unless they allowed him to. So he said gays and liberals and the ACLU were responsible for 9/11...if that comment did anything beyond make you realize what a flaming gasbag kook he was, then you're responsible for your own angst. Whatever happened to "consider the source?" So the fuck what what Falwell thinks of me? He had no power over my life...I refused to allow it.

.

[Pawel K]

14. So you are saying Falwell didn't have any influance on the reelection of GWB?

Can you please pass me whatever you seem to be smoking, I could use it right now.

[deadmessengers]

18. So do you celebrate the death of every Repugnican?

Because they all influenced his re-election. Every last one of them.

[Pawel K]

24. You are grasping at straws

Lets clear this up first, I never said I celebreated the death of Falwell, I did say he won't be missed but that was about the extend of what I said about it.

What I said in this thread is people that did piss all over his grave had a very valid reason to do so and that reason had nothing to do with the fact he was a republican. It had to do with the fact that his persecution lead to the death of many people and it lead to civil liberties of US citizens being oppressed.

Was it okay to celebrate the death of zarqawi (sp?)? Would it be ok to celebrate the death of Osama Bin Laden when/if that happens? Will it be ok to celebrate the death of Fred Phelp whenever that happens? Because in the grand scheme of things Falwell was just as bad as all of these idiots. It has nothing to do with him being a republican.

[Cha]

105. In the words of The Munchkins..

"Ding Dong, The Witch is dead..the wicked Witch is dead!" "

[Atman]

19. Actually, GWB was going to be installed no matter what Falwell said

The numbers don't add up. There aren't enough right-wing Christo-fascist loons in the country to have swayed the election, no matter what Falwell did or said. The whole gay-bashing/religious backlash bullshit was a cover story for the electronic voting machine scam and the stolen election. I've posted my thoughts on this several times; they're attempting to steal it again in '08 and are currently looking for their new cover story. Last time it was the religious right. Next time maybe it will be that the democrats humiliated the nation and made us "lose" the war. But it will be something. It wasn't Falwell.

.

[Pawel K]

26. And I probably agree with you there, thats not the point

As we all know Bush is not a christian. But because of people like Falwell he was able to exploit christians for their political support. Wether that lead to his reelection or not is debatable, what isn't debatable is the fact that we still don't civil rights protections for all people of this country because of this exploitation of these christians.

[Atman]

35. The difference is that I don't think "because of this exploitation of Christians"

...is accurate. We don't have equal rights for all citizens for a variety of reasons. Kommander Karl and his posse looked for easy scapegoats, easy targets, and they found such targets in the ignorance of the Christian right. Face it, he wasn't going to find it at MIT or among the pointy-headed elites in New England or California. He prayed on the low-hanging fruit. But ultimately, the responsibility for the legislation to grant equal rights to all falls upon Congress, not Jerry Falwell and a bunch of bible thumpers. If we keep electing cowards and panderers, we'll keep getting cowardly legislation dictated by the pandered-to. Falwell made a lot of noise. Why aren't we making MORE NOISE than they are?

.

[Zenlitened]

46. "He had no power over my life...I refused to allow it."

Must be nice. Care to share the secrets of how you achieved this?

Falwell's political career spanned decades, and he was a key instrument in the rise of the radical right. Far more than simply "making statements," he marshalled forces that have had some all-too-real successes in terms of disempowering women, denying basic rights to same-sex couples, even muzzling the voice of the political left, to a great extent.

I understand that you don't like some of the more vitriolic comments made in reaction to Falwell's death. But when you diminish the effects of his career to a mere annoyance, I think you do a real disservice to DUers and progressives in general.

[Occulus]

72. And now I'm actually angry toward you.

Not just pissed off, but pretty deeply angry. I think you should suffer through my explanation, so here it is.

My parents adopted me as an infant. On my birth history form (I was born in 1975 and my birth parents chose not to reveal their names), it states that each of them were musically talented. My adoptive parents knew this; they saw that record as part of the adoption process, and in fact my mother still retains that record. I've seen it, ad if you're picky enough to ask to see it yourself, I'll scan the damn thing and post it.

By the time I was five years old, in my parents' own words years and years later, it was obvious I was musically talented as well. Despite this, my parents chose to keep me away from any form of artistic expression and instead try to get me to play first soccer, then baseball. By the time I was old enough to go into an official junior baseball league, I had already been 'exposed' to music and playing an instrument. This happened as a result of my (future) band director coming to my elementary school and auditioning/testing the students for musical ability. The point was to see if a) there were students who had latent musical ability and b) to get kids who liked the idea of playing an instrument to join band in sixth grade- the following year.

When I went into the room, I tried out several instruments. I could get sound out of each- I think I tried a trombone, a flute, a french horn, an oboe, and a clarinet. Not everyone can even make a coherent sound from an instrument the first time they play it, but for some reason, I was at least able to make a controlled noise out of the things. My (future) band director asked me if I had ever done any of this before. Of course, I hadn't, but doing it in the first place, I found, for the very very first time in any activity I had ever attempted, came as second nature to me. It was, very literally, as easy as breathing.

When I told my mom what he had said, she told me, "Oh, he probably says that to all the kids." This, from the same woman who, when hearing my complaints about being picked on at school, told me one of the following:

1) I don't know what to tell you.

2) Ignore them and they'll get bored and go away.

3) (my personal favorite) If you're going to insist on being different from everyone else, you're just going to have to get used to being picked on.

Yeah. Real peach of a lady, my mom is.

I chose oboe, and went on to face seven years of abuse and ridicule from my peers for choosing that instrument, specifically. For the abusive jocks, I used the fact that I would still be playing oboe when I was 50, but they would only be talking about games they'd played. In other words, I used my ability and my own potential to defend myself from abuse- because I was smart enough to see what exactly my potential was. In the end, though, I didn't want to perform in concert or make music CDs or anything of the sort- I wanted to teach high school band, to give someone else the opportunity I had been given.

I also played percussion in ensemble, marched in the drumline (eventually as center snare, and later marched flags with the Madison Scouts in DCI in 1994; at the time, they were one of the top six groups of their kind in the world), sang in choir from sixth to twelfth grade, performed in several invite-only student bands, won numerous medals and awards as a soloist in competition- including, in my senior year, the highest school band award a director could give a student- performed in all four musicals in high school, played piano in jazz band, composed in what free time I had, and graduated 13th in my class with a 3.85 GPA and both NHS cords...

My parents refused me piano lessons. I asked. I said please. I paid half for the piano. They paid the other half, said no to lessons, and I had to teach myself. Then my mom threatened to shut the lid on my fingers if I kept playing during her soaps. Both of them complained I was playing too loud. My mom mockingly gave me an IOU to get the thing tuned as a birthday gift. She refuses to this day to redeem that.

and when my mom found out I was gay when I was 19, she literally threw me out into the rain with nothing more than the clothes on my back. My grades predictably tanked; the following year, my parents withdrew the school funding they were providing and I had to drop out. I haven't played an instrument or performed publicly since. This was in 1995.

Jerry Falwell's beliefs- the which, he perpetuated, he magnified, he gave birth to- made my life a living hell. I didn't "allow" anything- my own personal hell, the which I still live in, since I can't refill that hole in my heart- was inflicted upon me. I came very very very close to killing myself that night, and I've come close to that over and over through the years.

You obviously don't know or understand the bitter, sorrowful trail of harm and blood and tears this man and the beliefs he perpetuated left in his wake. You very obviously don't understand that these beliefs spread beyond religious people- my family never, ever went to church, but my mom whipped the bible right out when she wanted to show me being gay isn't "normal".

That's what Falwell perpetuated. But I don't think you quite grok that.

I'll be 32 next Thursday, and yesterday evening, I sobbed for two and a half hours because nothing I try to fill the hole in my heart with quite fits; nothing comes naturally to me except music... but my second-shift job forbids me even from joining a community choir, my debts forbid me from finding a "day" job... and to top it all off, this weirdly scheduled job I have was found and then pushed upon me by the very same person who kicked me out of the house in the first place; I only took this job to keep from getting kicked out yet again, this time for "passing up a hell of an opportunity".

None of us victimized by Falwell or people who believe as he did have allowed ourselves to be victimized by anyone. We've had this inflicted upon us.

I hereby submit you've never once been a real victim of anything significantly damaging from people whit Falwell's mindset, and thus don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

[Jamastiene]

75. Hear here!!!

Bravo!!!

You expressed a type of internal pain that many of us have felt because of people like Falwell AND those who insist he could never have possibly victimized any of us. To me, they are one in the same. If the people who keep insisting that Falwell could not have possibly hurt us will not listen to us when we try to tell them that yes, he did, then they are no better than he was. If anything, they are his minions continuing to do his work for him even after he has died.

:hug:

[Bluerthanblue]

88. there is SO much

i want to say in response-

but ..won't/can't-

:hug: (i wish i could magnify this 3 zillion times)

You are absolutely right- you didn't choose to be treated the way you have been- it ISN'T 'you'-

pleasefight to find room for your music in your life- it is life giving -life changing.

your words touched my deepest parts.

be gentle with yourself

peace, comfort, and healing are what i would most love to give you

blu

[Chovexani]

89. Oh, Jesus

I don't even have words. So all I can do is this. :hug:

I think we need a thread to share our stories, and then maybe people will understand where these raw emotions are coming from.

[Jed Dilligan]

86. That's a load of shit

That's like saying all Goebbels ever did was talk, so the victims of the Holocaust should just get over themselves.

Worst... post... ever.


:puke:

[treestar]

100. That was simply due to circumstances, IMO

In the right circumstances, Falwell would have done all those evil things. Had he lived to see the religious authoritarian regime he would have approved of.

He was merely unsuccesssful at getting what he wanted. It's like dancing on Hitler's grave in around 1930. He hadn't done anything but talk up to that time.

[krispos42]

66. To the freepers...

The journalists were in fact terrorist/insurgent infiltrators working to undermine our noble and just cause in Iraq, in collusion with the Democrats.

Of course

[Guaranteed]

76. Do you want their argument?

It's that journalists demoralize our troops and encourage the enemy. That's their argument.

They then USE that to JUSTIFY PEOPLE'S DEATHS.

Sound familiar?

[rasputin1952]

87. Unlike Falwell...they spoke the truth...

:(

[Atman]

6. Bingo.

And I, for one, received many similar comments from my fellow DUers for suggesting that the grave-dancing display was "not our finest hour."

.

[Lobster Martini]

22. For what it's worth, I agreed with you then and still do.

Don't particularly want to open that can o' worms again.

[Duncan Grant]

27. Our fellow DUers also supported contrary points of view regarding "grave-dancing".

Please see, "Falwell...To Everyone Ashamed of our Celebration" (92 recommendations):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=892742&mesg_id=892742

And also, "Angry and Yes, More Falwell" (79 recommendations):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=896159&mesg_id=896159

Just to be fair, your fellow DUers also disagreed with you.


edit: Forget to mention that I'm not surprised you don't see the difference between our reaction to Falwell and FR's reaction to these 2 journalists.

[Atman]

36. You linked me to two threads started by someone named MAD SPIRIT.

My screen name is ATMAN.

I think that should tell you a lot right there!

.

[Duncan Grant]

39. And "Atman" is significant because...?

:shrug:

That your name is Atman means nothing to me.

I'm asking you to remember that even in "your" thread your fellow DUers offered contrary points of view.

Madspirit's threads were also well received in recent days. I'm simply saying there wasn't one prevailing opinion at DU regarding this matter.

And again, it doesn't surprise me that you would agree your fellow DUers are no different than users at FR.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Duncan Grant]

53. My point was to bring attention to your grandiose use of "my fellow DUers...".

Not all of your fellow DUers are buying what you're selling.

My second point is your subjective vilification of "hate spewing" DUers. You hold no moral high ground here -- this issue is much more complex than your oversimplified (and may I say selective) condemnation of hate.

If you believe the "hate-spewers" and the freepers are one and the same, so be it. At least it's on record now.

[Atman]

54. Oooh...I hope it's not on my "Permanent Record!"

Damn...just can't escape that record! :rofl:

.

[Duncan Grant]

59. Who am I to stop you from being trivial?

Your avoidance of any substantive comment speaks volumes. :eyes:
edit: sp

[Raksha]

67. Atman = Spirit in Sanskrit. Probably a lot of DUers know this.

It refers to a very high level of divinity beyond the anthropomorphic. It's a good screen name, but doesn't say anything about you one way or the other except that you had the good taste to choose it as your screen name. Doesn't say you ARE at that level of spiritual development, although maybe you see yourself that way.

You probably know that my screen name means "demon" in Sanskrit. It's kind of a private joke and was chosen for me years ago by an online friend. Says nothing whatsoever about my spiritual aspirations.

[Pawel K]

10. bull-fucking-shit

Falwell was filled with hatred, this hate lead to the deaths of many people as well took liberties away from many more. I did not jump on the bandwagon of pissing all over his grave but I do not blame anyone that was persecuted by him for doing so.

These were 2 innocent man that reported what they saw. They did not spread hate, they did not spread destruction. What they are doing would be comparable to the DU pissing all over Peter Jenning's death, something that never happened around here. So please, cut the bullshit.

[deadmessengers]

15. We are better than that

The difference always was that we didn't celebrate the deaths of other human beings, and they did. Did you see the mass orgasm that took place over there when Saddam Hussein hung? No one over here thought the death of Saddam Hussein was particularly worth caring about, but there sure wasn't anyone wanking when he croaked. Why? Because we were better than that.

This is no different - this is celebration over the death of someone they perceive (incorrectly) to be responsible for the deaths of US soldiers. They're celebrating, because they think the world is better without those 2 reporters in it.

So why were we celebrating?

[Pawel K]

28. We aren't celebrating, people that were persecuted by him are, and they have every right to

maybe you were lucky enough not to be affect by his hate, as I was. But maybe if your civil liberties were violated, or maybe if you had a son die because of that asshole you would feel differently.

[Dukkha]

38. so why are you still here?

[spoony]

51. Because if he and others like him leave,

that just leaves whackjobs and ghouls.

[Zenlitened]

57. The self-righteous will be raptured away, huh?

Taking their moral-relativism-disguised-as-moral-absolutism with them?

What a shame.

[spoony]

63. Lol, let me know

when you figure out what the hell you're trying to say then get back to me.

[Zenlitened]

64. Sorry if that hit a little too close to home.

:eyes:

[spoony]

68. Close to home? I don't even know what it meant.

Here's a hint: throwing big words together at random is not the same as making an intelligent point. You'll have to either explain how "moral absolutism" is really disguised "moral relativism" or make sense some other way.

[Zenlitened]

70. Gosh, the hateful vibe from your posts is terribly upsetting. But here...

... let me try spell it out for you.

The claim has been made over and over again that many DUers are "just like freepers." Because in the same way many DUers have reacted positively to the death of Falwell, many freepers will someday react positively to the death of, for example, Ted Kennedy.

That's the absolutism: "Reacting positively to the death of ANY human being is ALWAYS wrong."

Here's where the relativism comes creeping in: When that day comes, when Freepers are raking Kennedy over the coals, DUers (we're told) will have no right to complain. Why? "Because Freepers dislike Kennedy as much as DUers disliked Falwell."

The fact that one man devoted his life to attacking the powerless, while the other devoted his life to aiding the less fortunate... well, none of that registers with the holy hand-wringers. The context of a person's life is entirely subjective, we're told, and in any event has no bearing on how people should react when that life ends.

Which leaves them fretting and tut-tutting when some DUers have the honesty to admit to feeling relieved or even glad that someone like Falwell is no longer able to inflict his brand of oppression on our society.

And when some other DUers go overboard and really let their emotions show... well, the hand-wringers will have NONE of that. So out they come to attack the victims, slandering them with the "just like freepers" routine. Because the noisy, impolite targets of some 30 years of fallout from Falwell's entry into politics... golly, it just makes "us" look bad. Out of an overblown fear that "we are hurting our cause," they have no trouble hurting our fellow DUers.

An added serving of moral relativism, I suppose. Or maybe just a matter of groveling at the feet of a bully, then turning around and bullying someone seen as a "safe" target. It's ugly, whatever it is. You'd think the people so concerned with image would be willing to take a close look at themselves now and then.

[spoony]

73. Parried with a yawn.

Both your attempt to paint my reasonable posts as hateful (here's another hint: if I'd said I want you to suffer a lot before you die, then go to hell for eternity, that'd be hateful, surely you've seen enough examples to know better) and to warp the notion of relativism fail badly.

"That's the absolutism: "Reacting positively to the death of ANY human being is ALWAYS wrong.""

You have that part right. From there, it's a mess.

"Here's where the relativism comes creeping in: When that day comes, when Freepers are raking Kennedy over the coals, DUers (we're told) will have no right to complain. Why? "Because Freepers dislike Kennedy as much as DUers disliked Falwell."

The fact that one man devoted his life to attacking the powerless, while the other devoted his life to aiding the less fortunate... well, none of that registers with the holy hand-wringers. The context of a person's life is entirely subjective, we're told, and in any event has no bearing on how people should react when that life ends."

For one thing, whilst complaining in such a situation would make a grave-dancer here a hypocrite, it wouldn't make their condemnation of that same behaviour wrong, because it would be. But that aside, there is no relativism in that scenario whatsoever. The basic point many are trying to make here is that a person, however bad, is still entitled to certain human dignities including that upon their death hideous personal things shouldn't be said about them (this doesn't apply to their policies, only their actual personhood). That's absolute. There is nothing relative about it.


"Which leaves them fretting and tut-tutting when some DUers have the honesty to admit to feeling relieved or even glad that someone like Falwell is no longer able to inflict his brand of oppression on our society.

And when some other DUers go overboard and really let their emotions show... well, the hand-wringers will have NONE of that. So out they come to attack the victims, slandering them with the "just like freepers" routine. Because the noisy, impolite targets of some 30 years of fallout from Falwell's entry into politics... golly, it just makes "us" look bad. Out of an overblown fear that "we are hurting our cause," they have no trouble hurting our fellow DUers."

How does it hurt ANYONE to be asked not to show giddiness at someone's death? And how, exactly, do you reconcile your claim that they're just happy he can't hurt society anymore with their repeated above-and-beyond insults following Falwell into the afterlife to even wish suffering upon him there?

I don't give a flying shite how it "looks to freepers", it's wrong because it's wrong, not because someone might be watching.


"An added serving of moral relativism, I suppose."

Not really.


"Or maybe just a matter of groveling at the feet of a bully, then turning around and bullying someone seen as a "safe" target."

You mean like people not standing up to Falwell in life but then letting loose on the "safe target" of his unresponsive corpse? That sort of bullying?

[Zenlitened]

80. Well, I gave it a shot. You can parry with a yawn or a yoga pose...

... that's certainly your right. But the contortions are a bit uncomfortable to watch.

You seem intent on smearing the entire board as making "hideous personal" attacks on Falwell, and doing so "gleefully"... as if there hasn't been a single, well-reasoned statement on the subject that also happened to stray from the "Kumbaya" script.

You insist that "a person, however bad, is still entitled to certain human dignities." Yet maintain that the living are not entitled to express their views, particularly if the narrative gets a bit raw at times. It's silence the hand-wringers demand -- emotions are to be bottled up, after all -- because they've misapplied a social convention designed for ordinary circumstances, and wish to impose it on the extraordinary circumstance of the death of a polarizing political figure. Picking and choosing among cultural imperatives, and elevating the one they prefer to the level of "moral absolute."

Yet, for all your lofty commitment to decorum, you have no trouble tossing in the absurd suggestion that DUers failed to stand up to Falwell and his ilk in life. Another slap from the sanctimonious, another opportunity to belittle those who experienced -- or even sensed -- the harm Falwell caused.

:eyes:

G'night, Spoony.

[spoony]

81. "Yet maintain that the living are not entitled to express their views"

Ugh. I didn't even bother reading past that. If you're going to construct strawmen, at least dress them up a little. Put a little hat on them, maybe a scarf, something to distract from the glaring fact that I never said anything like that. As I've stated many, many times I cannot and would not stop anyone from saying what they're going to say, but I will exercise MY right to express MY view that they are hateful.

[Zenlitened]

91. Perish the thought. You would never try to tell people...

... what they should and should not discuss:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=901378&mesg_id=921161

[spoony]

93. Free speech, deal with it.

[Zenlitened]

94. ROFL!

:rofl:

[spoony]

97. Ah, don't like that double edged sword do you?

That lets me tell you all how hateful your conduct is.

[Zenlitened]

107. No, I *love* the double-edged sword!

One blade for sanctimony, the other for hypocrisy.

What a riot! :spray:

By all means, exercise your freedom of speech to tell others to stop speaking!

Then, "Deal with it," he says, without a hint of irony.

Oh, man that's funny!

[Forkboy]

95. YOU deal with it.

You're one of the ones pissed off by what people are saying.

Free Speech...deal with it.

[spoony]

99. And you're bitching about people calling you on it.

"Deal with it" right back at ya.

[Forkboy]

103. You're not calling anyone on anything.You haven't gotten that yet...

...and I see no indication you ever will.If your vision is so limited that you can't tell the difference than there's no hope,and all you're doing is showing us here on DU that complex thought isn't your forte.

But do continue with your black and white bad self.

[spoony]

104. Read post 73 and others. I have

demolished the rationalizations for this glee at a sorry old man's death. Complex thought? All your side has thrown at my side are excuses and insults (including, my favourite, that I'm TOO educated to understand the celebrations, lol, you'll have to hook up with that guy to try to sort out your competing strategies).

Meanwhile my side has presented solid pragmatic and ethical arguments for why such hatred and spite are wrong and harmful. All we've gotten back is, essentially, "shut up! Falwell killed my puppy!" and other sub par and unsatisfying replies.

And you? I haven't seen you put forth more than a disjointed paragraph to justify your position in any of the numerous threads I've seen you in. Mostly you just piggyback and cheer-lead from the sidelines. So forgive me if I'm not going to lose sleep over whatever you think of me.

[Forkboy]

106. Your posts deserve no more than I've given.

You can't tell the difference between Falwell's actions and their negative effect on millions and the actions of the two ABC men killed in Iraq who aren't even close to being as bad as Falwell.Anyone who thinks the Freepers are just being like us is a simpleton.It shows me they lack the basic understanding of context.The ABC men aren't responsible for ruining millions of lives,so the Freeper comparison is laughable on it's face,as are the people who parrot it to feel they are superior to others.THAT is the closest mentality anyone here shares with the Freepers.

And you've been as hateful in these threads as the people you're complaining about.So forgive me if I think your flaming hypocrisy is bullshit. :shrug:

[spoony]

109. I tell you what--point out to me

where I told you or anyone else to suffer, die, and rot in hell and I'll concede I'm "as hateful in these threads as the people complaining about."

In fact, if that's too tall an order, just point out where I said I'll be happy when someone is dead.

Your attempts to paint me with that vile brush are soggy, weak, and tiresome.

[Forkboy]

62. You must hate it here.

[Guaranteed]

79. Well, that level of hatred IS fucking bullshit.

It's just temporary though. Those engaging in it will eventually have to see the error.

And, you're right that it doesn't feel bad to actually be better than your peers.

[Forkboy]

84. Try not to break that arm patting yourselves on your backs.

As for the rest of us low lifes...I think we can muddle along without your approval.

[spoony]

101. But you will not muddle along without contest.

[Forkboy]

108. It wouldn't be DU if I did.

[muffin1]

21. Amen!

Jerry Falwell didn't give a rat's ass about anyone he hurt with his hate-filled lies. His words and actions led like-minded idiots to commit horrible acts, like the murder of Matthew Shepherd.
Good riddance, Jerry.

[bigscott]

25. Thanks Pawel

:thumbsup:

[ThomCat]

12. There is a huge difference.

Falwell promoted and organized continual mass-hatred against many of us. He spent his entire life targeting and demonizing us and trying to make us non-citizens. We hate him because he has attacked us, over and over and over again.

If you can't see that, then you're the one being insensitive, not us.

[deadmessengers]

16. Hate him? Fine.

I'm not suggesting that anyone stop hating Falwell. His actions in life were truly disgusting. I'm suggesting that a line be drawn at celebrating his death.

[ThomCat]

20. Okay, how about we simple celebrate the end of his life?

Is there a difference? :shrug:

But now that his life has ended, he's not targetting and harassing us anymore. Yay!

[ima_sinnic]

50. what is wrong with you? seriously!

please explain the "sacredness" of someone's death that makes them immune to scorn and to thankfulness that he is dead.
I really REALLY do not understand this. is this a religious thing? because I grew up in the Methodist church and I don't remember anything about it. are evil spirits going to "get me" if I speak ill of the dead or feel relieved if a parasitic evil windbag bites the dust?
I'm glad the pigfucker is dead! so what?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

58. AND he died of natural causes at 73. Much less of a tragedy.

Even without going into how much of a slimeball he was.

[sandnsea]

29. No, not in a million years

Falwell earned his wrath, regardless of how ill-timed it was. These journalists are caught up in the midst of the freeper-backed war, and the fucking freepers laugh when their war gets people killed. Not like Falwell AT ALL.

[nam78_two]

56. Freeper-backed war-Bingo.nt

[Duncan Grant]

31. LMAO! How ridiculous.

I'm discussing Falwell the same way I did when he was alive. No difference.

Yet, you believe I'm "no different" from those over at FR. Give me a break. :eyes:

[BlooInBloo]

32. WHHHHIIIIIIIIZZZZZZZZZ

[nam78_two]

55. Well one hugh series difference would be

that Falwell died of natural causes and not as the result of a war that was cheered on and exulted over by DU.
Another one would be that to the best of my knowledge these reporters weren't hate mongers going around hoping that gay people die of AIDs etc.

[fishwax]

60. i see no comparison between the two

total BS.

[Guaranteed]

77. The comparison is dead on.

If you're grave-dancing, live with it.

[fishwax]

83. well, i wasn't grave dancing, and I still think it's bullshit

two journalists in iraq are no relation to someone who did the damage that falwell did.

[Marr]

65. Oh, bullSHIT.

Falwell was a hate-mongering charlatan who died old, fat, and rich, having cashed in by poisoning the well of political discourse and villifying people.

These two men were a couple of working stiffs, so far as I can tell- and they were fucking MURDERED.

Comparing those people to Falwell is goddamn insulting- and if you can't see that, you've got no business moralizing to others with that holier-than-thou shit.

[Charlie Brown]

92. one big difference: Falwell died of natural causes, these journalists were murdered

I don't think you can make a moral equivalency comparison with reaction to Falwell at DU when the other "side" is delighting over people who were murdered.

Any kind of satisfaction or "smugness" when someone is murdered is decidedly a whole different level of vile than anything someone could say about Falwell.

[Common Sense Party]

69. They're not all grave-dancing.

Sorry to hear that.
Any journalist (any) shows a lot of guts going over there and trying to report the story.
Our military families deal with ever day - it’s horrible.
Two more lives lost - two families struck with tragedy.
Shame.


3 posted on 05/18/2007 10:06:53 AM MDT by Jake The Goose


Prayers up for them.
Baghdad is a war zone.

4 posted on 05/18/2007 10:08:49 AM MDT by WorkerbeeCitizen


God be with their families. This is a war zone. Be careful.


11 posted on 05/18/2007 10:13:01 AM MDT by gathersnomoss

[Monkeyman]

2. Still Drinking I see

[Atman]

4. They never see themselves in this shit

I love all the "you liberals are worthless scum who should all be shot" threads they post, while calling us "intolerant" and "hate filled."

.

[BootinUp]

7. I read several posts

didn't see what you are referring to.

[Dark]

8. I think it was the remarks about 'friendly fire' and 'collaborators' n/t

[BootinUp]

11. pretty tame then? n/t

[Moochy]

17. Me too

Morbid curiosity got the better of me. did not take long to find other offensive stuff there.

But that's like being shocked at finding turds in an outhouse. :D

[ccpup]

23. try as they might

no one -- and I mean NO ONE -- is going to make me feel guilty for being happy that hateful pile of "Christian" Conservative puss is now desperately explaining why he spent decades cruelly humiliating whole groups of people to St. Pete who is NOT, as expected, letting him past the Red Velvet Rope to the Pearly Gates and into the VIP Section.

Call me what you will, but one less person on this Earth making others feel ashamed of who they are (all the while asking for your money) while inspiring similar hatred, ignorance and acts of violence in those who trust him is still, in my book, a very good thing.

[Buzz Clik]

30. Don't even think about using Freepers as a standard of moral behavior.

If you can't figure out how to behave without bringing up the Freepers, you're hopeless.

[Dukkha]

33. So ABC journalists saw more combat than all those freepers combined

That's probably what they're so upset about

[Oreo]

34. Scum laments it wasn't Terry Moran

"No Terry Moran? Crap"

Unbelievable heartless bastards.

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. Who is Terry Moran?

[la la]

40. Nightline--

worthless there, right now, in my opinion.

Actually, Nightline is now the worthless entity, again in my opinion.

Sorry for going off track for a sec.!

[proud2BlibKansan]

41. That's perfectly alright

Thanks for the info. I stopped watching Nightline a long time ago.

[Peregrine Took]

43. For the same reason sane people can't discuss anything with them - they're

wired differently in their heads. Anyone hear the conversation with Horowitz and Thom Hartmann yesterday? I rest my case.

[jdiggity]

45. I dunno

The comments seem to be divided between sympathetic and honest ones such as...

"Sorry to hear that. Any journalist (any) shows a lot of guts going over there and trying to report the story. Our military families deal with ever day - it’s horrible. Two more lives lost - two families struck with tragedy. Shame."

and sarcastic ones making fun of them such as...

"i was gonna make a crack about “friendly fire.”"



I can't help but note that there were a lot of things in our threads about Falwell, but humor and sympathy were rare, if not non-existant.

[Neecy]

48. humor and sympathy???

As a gay woman I find it impossible to find humor and/or sympathy in this man's death. I didn't grave dance, for what it's worth, but sympathy? You've got to be kidding! Have you ever been demonized as a human being by someone as influential and powerful as this? Ever been made to feel like total trash with some kind of agenda to destroy the nation? His bullshit is gone from my life forever and for that I'm relieved. Sadly there are many to take his place, but for sure I don't find 'humor' in the situation AT ALL. This craven man was pure evil.

[jdiggity]

71. hmmm

I wonder if Falwell's family would agree with you. It's understandable that you would not feel sympathy for the man himself, based on his viewpoints, but if you cannot or will not feel anything for the people he left behind that may have felt something for him, then i think that's sad. Or do you associate his wife, children and whoever else was part of this man's life as "evil" as well?

I'm curious, did you ever meet the man? Speak with him? I ask because it is striking to me how one could get so personal at a persons death when your relationship with the man is anything but personal. Falwell never knew you, that's for sure. He didn't even know you existed. Yet here you are acting like he came up to your face and beat you down with a cane.

I think your problem is that you care too much what other people say. How else can a complete stranger make you feel "demonized as a human being" and "made to feel like total trash with some kind of agenda to destroy the nation?" I can tell you, there are plenty of democrats here at DU who say the exact same things about republicans in terms of being evil, nazis, out to destroy the world. Does that make the repubs justified in any raging seething anger that results from it? Should they be jumping on the graves of democrats whenever one dies? Of course not. Politics is politics and the last thing it should get is personal, regardless of what you think the outcome is of those politics.

How anyone could live their life being so emotionally affected by what strangers say of them is beyond me. Live your life and be happy, because if you spend it looking for things to be offended by, I guarantee you you'll end up nothing but miserable, which is precisely what it looks like you let Falwell do to you. No one should have that kind of power over you, let alone someone you have never even met.

I'm sorry to preach, but again, it appears a lot of people on DU were emotionally attached to what Falwell did and said, and I think it's sad that anyone should have the kind of power over us.

[Crunchy Frog]

90. Yeah, especially since nobody on DU ever said a word about Falwell

while he was alive. Why are they all of a sudden knocking him now that he's dead?

[stray cat]

47. Hatred appears to be irrespective of political persuasion

Vicious extremists seem to occur in almost any extreme viewpoint

[Name removed]

52. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluerthanblue]

61. could their mockery be

race related?

I read about the journalists, and I believe they were Iraqi born.-

There often seems to be a distinct lack of compassion for the Iraqi people.

Before anyone jumps down my throat saying I'm justifying the mockery the 'hate', or getting in the middle of all the Falwell flap- I'M NOT!

I'm making an observation- the "friendly fire" snark etc- makes it make a sick kind of sense???

This world is so screwed up.

peace,
blu


edited for grammar

[jdiggity]

74. hmmm, probably not

Right-wingers seem to think that the media (whether Iraqi media or American media) is ultimately assisting the insurgency by propagandizing for them. Whether or not they're Iraqis, Americans, or otherwise would not affect their opinion, and thus not affect their reason to mock.

[Guaranteed]

78. Yes, because it's wrong to justify someone's death simply on their exercising their

1st Amendment rights.

Oh, wait a minute...

[NuttyFluffers]

82. i expect insane people to not grasp context of life lived and manner of death

the reactions of FR do not surprise me. they are people who live in absolutes -- eventually absolutes start to conflict. this cognitive dissonance starts to warp the mind from futile attempts at justification/negation. those who do not live with understanding of context, the complexity of shades of grey, are doomed to respond in such a psychotic manner.

[Blue_Tires]

85. just more selective outrage from the other side

[Forkboy]

96. Anyone comparing the two is a simpleton.

Anyone who can't tell the difference between what these two did for a living and what Falwell did needs to get their heads out of their asses and see the sunshine.

[upi402]

98. Falbad tried to undo the Bill of Rights, constitution. The journalist???

They tried to tell the truth. And that deserves the death penalty in Republican World.

effemall

[treestar]

102. The weirdest part is the one who thinks it's all a conspiracy

which includes the "Democrat Party." If the equivalent of that happened here, it's be sent to the 911 forum with accusations of tinfoil hat - so far none of the freepers do that to their fellow freep.