I just watched "Bobby". Innocence died with Bobby.

[rubberducky]

America lost so much between Jack, Martin and Bobby. I`m having a hard time to type between my tears. Where, oh where, has our country gone since these sensless murders?? My heart aches for what might have been. How did this country ever become so lost as to even allow someone so innept as bush to run for president? Such an incredible sadness swept over me watching this movie. America, the golden beacon of all that was supposed to be good, is on her knees. Begging to be restored, can we ever restore this wonderful idea of democracy to her feet? Will the United States of America ever regain her place in the world, as the welcoming beacon of freedom? I so miss the innocense of the days of Jack, Martin and Bobby. They were not perfect times,but what times ever are? There is no answer to my questions, just thoughts of what might have been.

[Miss Chybil]

1. How "innocent" could we have been to have needed a Martin Luther King,

a Bobby Kennedy, a John Kennedy? And how innocent could we have been to have killed them when they came? There is the t.v. version of American life and reality. People have been people since the beginning of people. Some are good. Some are bad. Times really don't change much, they just repeat themselves. George Bush will pass. The carnage he has wrought will live in infamy, at least until somebody comes along to trump him.

[BlooInBloo]

2. Gotta love the white view of history, eh?

[Mark Twain Girl]

4. Zounds, good post! Well put -- how innocent could we have been

to need a civil rights movement, a women's movement, a peace movement?

[rubberducky]

7. I cannot help but think that the Vision of these three people was

of a great united America. An America that we could be proud of. We went to the stars with JFK`s vision. We have integrated with Martin`s vision. No, thier views were not perfect but, damnit at least they had a better vision for our country than we have now. We had dreams and hopes.

[Az]

9. Really?

Our trip to the stars was a pissing contest with the Soviet Union.

Kennedy was perhaps the best President we have had in the last 50 years. But let us not ignore the facts just to wax nostalgic.

[rubberducky]

12. But, we did put a man on the moon. It took herculian efforts, but we did it.

[Az]

18. I would have been happier

if it had been in the name of science rather than being the biggest kid on the block.

[rubberducky]

22. But, science is what took us there. The science of going into space taught us so much.

Would technology be where it is today without the space race? I think not. At least with the space race Russia and the US were`nt shooting at one another.

[aquart]

3. Bobby Kennedy wasn't close to "innocent."

This deification is misplaced.

[rubberducky]

11. I didn`t say that Bobby was innocent. I said it was much more innocent times then.

[Az]

13. Blind would be a better word

Most people lived in relative isolation to the plights of others. Ignorance of such situations lead to the sense of innocents. Innocents is just ignorance.

[Az]

5. Our innocents was lost when we woke up and realized we never were innocent

America is a history of exploitation of others for the benefit of the elite. It was around about the time of Kennedy/King that post modern awareness began kicking in and we began to realize what we were doing to others. From Jamestown to Vietnam ours has been a history of stepping on others in the name of profit for the few.

[rubberducky]

15. Sadly, I agree with you, but at least we had the sense to begin to realize what we had wrought.

[azurnoir]

6. America lost it's innocense attaining that place

I have seen Bobby and there is no doubt that we'd be living in a much different America if he had lived, to truly begin to understand how we got where we are you should see The Good Shepard.

[rubberducky]

8. Will do!

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. Yes I loved that movie!

I was surprised it didn't get an Academy Award nominations.

[uppityperson]

14. The innocence I lost was believing that the good guys could win.

Believing that people working for positive change could be embraced and succeed. I still believe that, but not as I did as a teenager. Part of that change has happened with age, with a big part, a big change in my attitude when King and Bobby got killed. "Why are they killing all the good guys?"

[rubberducky]

16. I think that it was that thought that broke my heart in the movie.

[sheerjoy]

17. You are right to ask....

even if the answer is that we are going to Hades in a handbag... what follows Shrub will either be the first step in a loooong journey of reparation or a continued downward spiral... either way, our grandkids will remain in hades.....for many many years. So sad.

[rubberducky]

19. I will teach my grandson that truly great people have existed, who believed

in what is rightous. Without dreams and wonder, what do we have to hold on to? Seems to me we must always reach to what is just beyond our fingers! I`m still wishing for impeachment, but we shall see, because it`s beyond my fingers and off the table. But, I can still wish!

[sheerjoy]

20. I want to hold on

to impeachment and prison terms, but I see them as near impossibilities in this administration's lock on America.

20 more months before we can even begin to dig out -- and so many will die by that time.

[Az]

21. There have always been such people

The struggle in the world is with ignorance. There are those that become aware of injustice and seek to right it and then there are those who remain ignorant to it or do not perceive it as something critical because it does not affect them.

There is a tendency to try to equate people as good or evil. I reject that contention. I believe people are basically good but also basically ignorant. Ignorance allows mindsets and views to enter into the mind that to others will seem evil but the individual carrying them out believes their actions to be good or at the very least nondamaging in general.

The real goal then of all who seek to right the wrongs is to educate people of what they are doing to others in ways that they can comprehend.

[rubberducky]

23. Righting what we percieve as wrongs might not be wrongs to the ones we percieve as doing wrongs.

I truly admire your thoughts and find myself agreeing with you many times.

[bobbie]

24. K&R

...

[rubberducky]

25. Many thanks!