Exodus 22:18 - "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."

[johnaries]

That's the King James version's interpretation. But what did the original Hebrew say?

In the original Hebrew manuscript, the author used the word m'khashepah to describe the person who should be killed. The word means a woman who uses spoken spells to harm others - e.g. causing their death or loss of property. Clearly "evil sorceress" or "woman who does evil magic" would be the most accurate phrases in today's English usage for this verse.
.....


The King James Version and Revised English Bible use the term "witch." In North America, the term normally refers to Wiccans -- the followers of the Wiccan religion. According to the Scofield Reference Bible this verse from the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) was written in the year 1491 BCE. This is some 650 years before the origin of the Celtic people circa 850 BCE from whom some elements of Wicca were taken. So Exodus 22:18 can hardly be referring to Wiccans.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_bibl2.htm

Just so you know.....

[Zephie]

1. Very cool.

I had never known that.

[RandomThoughts]

2. The problem is what people call witches.

Many people say someone is a witch when they are not, and mostly for other reasons.

[johnaries]

4. Frankly, I always liked the expression "she's a witch with a capital B."

:evilgrin:

[bobbolink]

13. And if that's offensive to some, then tough shit for them?

[aquart]

3. Is there an equivalent biblical injunction against a male practitioner of evil magic?

Because the lack of such an injunction might suggest something else was going on altogether.

[johnaries]

6. Doubtful. The Bible was almost anti-woman.

Remember, Adam only ate the apple because of Eve and women were then cursed by God. Women were practically slaves. If I was a woman, reading the Bible would mostly piss me off.

[iamjoy]

8. I Am a Woman, And It Does

I see the Abrahamic religions as misogynistic.

[Dead_Parrot]

9. Same word

It's not actually gender specific. For instance 2 Chronicles 33:6
"And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: also he observed times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger."

Dunno who this Manasseh guy was, but it sounds like he knew how to party.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3784&t=KJV

[johnaries]

10. Hmmm, doing some more Google study...

it's obviously very difficult to translate ancient Hebrew. Some translations say kashaph and others say m'khashepah. Some also specifically say "woman" while others are gender-neutral.

Any ancient Hebrew experts here?

Regardless, it's obvious they couldn't havebeen talking about Witches, Pagans, Druids, or any Celtic-based religions since they didn't appear until 650 years later. And, of course, Wiccans and Neo-Pagans who technically didn't appear until the 20th century, even though both are based on earlier Celtic religious traditions.

[Dead_Parrot]

11. Not a hebrew expert, but...

I think the word is taking different forms depending on how it's used. Which is bloody hard to put into English, since we don't really have gendered words but try with "Enchant" (probably a better translation than witch, anyway): It's a verb, but acts as a root for a noun (enchantment) adjective (enchanting) & pronouns (enchanter, enchantress): The enchantress enchanted an enchanting enchantment is OTT, but perfectly good English.

Where English has gender-specific words, it defaults towards the male and neuter: If I say "Enchanter" I might mean a male, or I might not know; whereas if I say "enchantress" it's definitely a female. If it's a collection with both sexes, the word is "enchanters", not "enchantresses".

So if I said, "Thou shalt not suffer an enchanter to live", it's a safe bet I'm including the women unless I specify otherwise: I'd be inclined to apply the same rule to kashaph/m'khashepah whichever gender it implies naturally.

None of which means the bible isn't an exercise in dark ages misogyny, but it's good to pick out quirks of etymology from the dick-waving of Nicea.

[TlalocW]

5. Fortunately

There is no such thing as real magic so we can work on getting Christians to ignore that particular verse.

TlalocW

[johnaries]

7. Oh, really? Don't be so sure.......

:)

[TlalocW]

12. I'm pretty sure

I've seen several witches, talkers to the dead (one who could read questions from the audience while blindfolded), and other flim-flam artists and recognized immediately what stage magic principles were being used, have paid believers to go to witches and curanderos to have curses put on me, etc.

In the end, rationalism and the real world win out.

TlalocW