Christian Theology & Psychiatry. Can they co-exist?

[AnArmyVeteran]

I know someone who just began studying to be a psychiatrist. There's no problem with that, but this person is doing it by taking online classes from Liberty University, the same 'college' created by Jerry Falwell and where Glenn Beck gave a commencement address a few months ago. This new student says Liberty University teaches psychiatry with the focus on religious theology. That raised red flags in my mind and I wonder if others feel the same way. 

Can religious theology and the practice of psychiatry co-exist? My first thought was how can anyone successfully treat a mental illness in another person when their own beliefs are so tainted with antiquated religious dogma? How can the study of psychiatry be watered down by religious theology and still be effective, or even safe? And how can the study of such a complex field like psychiatry be done online without face to face interactions which seemingly are crucial to learning about human behavior? 

For generations religions have attacked just about every science known to man, and that includes the study of human behavior and the mental illnesses that afflict so many people. Even in our colonial days, if a person acted peculiar or different they had a good chance of being burned at the stake as a witch. No religious person tried to understand what could have caused someone to act differently. They didn't think, they judged, and their judgements led to the hideously brutal murders of the most vulnerable in their society. 

I am not saying anyone who wants to become a psychologist or psychiatrist has to divorce themselves from all religious beliefs. I'm sure competent therapists can compartmentalize their personal beliefs from their professions, just as an engineer who is religious can separate the two when creating a design. But an engineer deals with physical structures, not the intricate matters of the mind. 

I know if I had a mental illness I would not want to be treated by someone totally influenced by theocratic beliefs instead of proven scientific methods. I personally believe we are all spiritual beings, but I also believe a person can be very spiritual without ever hearing about religion. Religion is a man-made creation, and from observations through life I've noticed that the more religious a person is the further away from spirituality they are. Fundamentalists seem to be totally consumed by rituals and absolutisms. To them, everything is black and white, even though almost everything in the world is grey. 

I certainly would not want to be treated by a fundamentalist Christian who graduated from an online college like Liberty University. Because of their extreme level of fundamentalism it seems impossible for them to be able to competently treat a patient as long as they believe that Jesus was healing patients through them or if they used the Bible instead of relying on the data from the research of thousands of others in the field of psychiatry. 

[HereSince1628]

1. Talk therapies often recognize 'spirituality' as an important component

Being MD's, psychiatrist must believe in the effectiveness of pharmaceuticals. Believing in God isn't critical, and that fixed rate 10% tithing tax isn't progressive.

[COLGATE4]

2. How in the name of hell can Liberty offer an on-line program

in Psychiatry????? To begin with, Psychiatry is a specialty field in Medicine, therefore all Psychiatrists are by definition M.D.'s, and I absolutely refuse to believe that anyone (even as stupid as Liberty) would pretend to launch an M.D. program on-line. My guess is that your friend is studying Psychology (or Counseling), which is not the same thing at all.

[AnArmyVeteran]

4. I agree with you, but she definitely said 'psychiatry'.

Face it, Liberty University is just a diploma mill anyway that churns out right wing religious extremists. Their not so hidden goal is to have their graduates assume positions of power and control in the government so they can change laws to meet their own Biblical beliefs. Of course, Roe v Wade is at the top of their list, but they would like to ultimately force everyone to succumb to their will believing they are all doing the 'Lord's' work.

[Jackpine Radical]

5. People often confuse psychology and psychiatry.

To be a psychiatrist you have to have completed 4 years of medical school and then done internship & residency in psychiatry, usually 2 years each.

Clinical psychology takes the same amount of time, but divided differently. The PhD typically takes about 7 years (post-bachelors), 1 of which is a pre-doctoral internship, + at least 1 year of post-doc internship before you sit for the licensing exam. The PsyD degree may take about 1 year less. If you go on for a specialty like neuropsychology, that is another 2 or 3 years.

You can't be licensed as either an MD or a psychologist as a result of online study only.

[ampad]

14. She is probably getting a psychology degree

and from my understanding Liberty college is not APA accredited. Matter of fact, I believe that program has no accreditation whatsoever.

[izquierdista]

3. Certainly

Theology provides a steady stream of clients to psychiatrists.

[Jackpine Radical]

7. Lordy, but that's the truth!

If it weren't for all that theistic guilt, the shrinks would be out of business.

[cbayer]

6. For the record, the reply up thread is correct. There is no way that this person is

studying psychiatry. The fact that they call it that shows how shallow and misleading the program you describe truly is.

[Jim__]

8. Top 10 online psychiatry schools.

That's how the website is presented - but they all seem to be offering courses in psychology.

[stray cat]

9. They have for years - would you go to a conservative christian counselor

if you were a secular atheisit? I can see some people who are religious not wanting to go to a secular atheist either.

[MajorChode]

10. They aren't too far removed from each other

Both require a belief in something that can't be proved. Of course, I'm adding just a bit of hyperbole here. Certainly there are selected psychiatric treatments which are based on sound science and have an acceptable success rate, but as a whole the field of psychiatry isn't all that stellar and I'm not convinced you are much better off putting your faith in someone who has a sheepskin vs a pastor or a witch doctor.

[AnArmyVeteran]

11. I agree and I'm a minister.

I became a minister if the Universal Life Church for three bucks. I as recognized by the government like any other preacher. When I became a minister my dad became a bishop for the referral :) we're a very holey family.

[bobbolink]

27. I used to believe that the field of different forms of therapy offered great hope.

Sadly, I no longer believe that.. too much evidence to the contrary. There *are* people who feel helped, just as there are people to feel helped by drugs, but that doesn't mean the whole field is helpful.

It saddens me that I have come to this conclusion, but I often see more damage than hope.

In the last few months, I was turned onto a book by another DUer, and it is one I will all here would read.... "Toward Psychologies Of Liberation". It amazes me that it comes from people trained in those schools, because they have somehow managed to break free and look at the wider view.

Sadly, I doubt it will have much effect, but I still wish it was widely read by people who consider themselves "liberal" or "progressive".

[Dappleganger]

12. As long as they only treat people who believe exactly as they do.

There are christian psychiatrists and psychiatrists who happen to be christian. My preference is for the latter because they are trained the traditional way and not in christian theology, but understand my own background better. But that's my choice.

I don't think that anyone who took online classes in psychiatry should be treating anyone, period. Especially from LU.

[Ozymanithrax]

13. A Psychiatrist or a Psychologist?

A Psychiatrist is a medical doctor, who has four years of college, four years of medical school, followed by Psychiatry Residence training. I don't think that can be done on line.

A Psychologist needs a P.H.D. in Psychology. I know of several "Christian Based Psychologists" and Christian based licensed clinical social workers (LCSW) are as common as flies. I would go to one of them anytime I need a witch doctor.

[TexasObserver]

15. Exorcism? Therapy?

Both religion and psychiatry require a faith in the process that is seldom justified by results. Faith is a belief in things that cannot be proved, so they both have that.

I wouldn't want a doctor or a minister trained at Jerry Falwell's university, however.

[cleanhippie]

16. Its a psychology degree

http://www.libertyonlinepsychology.com/?s_kwcid=TC|9999|psychology%20liberty%20university||S|b|3117666231

But you are right, not sure how what seems to be a delusion to start with can help you in diagnosing and treating someone elses delusion.

[ampad]

17. I stand corrected

Liberty University is accredited by the Southern association of colleges and School SACS.

I would never attempt an online, grad school, Psych program, that was not APA accredited. I think it would make it very hard to find a job. Of course if your friend is planning on working for a church then it may not matter to them. For the simple fact that she got her degree from Liberty university; which in my opinion is a diploma mill.

[ampad]

18. I believe that when you are dealing with mental illness

That it would probably be safe to steer away from a therapist that may lack the ability to be open minded. In this case it may not matter because your friend will probably serve those with similar beliefs. I do believe that those who practice religion can be decent therapist if they are willing to set those beliefs aside when it comes to practicing. For some it can be done. Just as many medical doctors are believers. I think it would be an interesting study to compare religious counselors to secular counselors in regards to treatment and such. Something to think about.

I watched a movie on IFC a couple of months ago that got me to thinking about this situation. It was a silly horror movie about two kids who went mad and decided to do in their parents. The father was a minister and the mother was a psychiatrist. The father insisted that the kids were possessed while the mother insisted that the children were suffering from a severe mental illness.

[AnArmyVeteran]

29. That sounds like an interesting movie and pertinent to my OP

[DailyGrind51]

19. Ask M. Scott Peck, Christian psychiatrist and author of "A Road Less Travelled".

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

20. Stopped reading at "this person is doing it by taking online classes from Liberty University"

Really, that's all I need to know. What a twofer.

[MountainLaurel]

21. That frightens me

My pastor (fundamentalist Baptist) when I was growing up was a graduate of Liberty. He taught (and still teaches) that mental illness really doesn't exist, that it's a symptom of secular society's selfish nature. Could you imagine the damage that could do to someone who is mentally ill, going to speak to an authority figure who is considered one step down from God?

[AnArmyVeteran]

26. That's very sad. How many other abusive preachers are harming the vulnerable?

I wonder how many lives he has destroyed by not getting the mentally ill the proper treatment and by labeling them in such a cruel way. I had a dear friend who tried to commit suicide because she was the victim of religious abuse from her parents and her church (baptist). She invited me to one of their services and I had to leave because of how abusive the preacher was. I felt sorry for all the people who remainded to be further victimized by such an evil, abusive person. It made me wonder how many people have killed themselves because of the evil spread from the pulpits of many churches.

[Cal33]

22. Yes, for the Catholics, anyway. Georgetown University is run

by the Jesuits. There are Jesuit priests who are psychiatrists.

[TransitJohn]

23. Don't you need a medical degree to be a psychiatrist? This person already finished a residency?

I'm confused. How can paper from a diploma mill let someone practice psychiatry? If he tries, I'm sure the state medical licensure board will be all over it.

[EFerrari]

24. The last shrink my ex had was also a fundie

but in his case, you wouldn't know because he rarely if ever referred to his faith. He used to do things like take samples out of their packages and put them in a small bag for my ex, who couldn't afford his meds. "It says right here on this package that it can't be sold, so let's make sure we don't break any laws."

He was a good doctor and a decent man.

[AnArmyVeteran]

25. I'm glad you had a good experience.

I'm not saying Christians would make bad therapists, but I sure would not have anyone from Liberty University treat me or a member of my family. Especially someone who received a degree online.

The doctor you mentioned sounds like a compassionate person and helped your ex. I hope he is doing well now.

[immoderate]

28. "The purpose of psychiatry is to provide a vocabulary for insulting people." -Thomas Szasz

I think psychiatry, and its cousin, clinical psychology, are dependent on some philosophical assumptions that are not provable. Some techniques and treatments are tested, and widely accepted. But some questions are unanswered, such as in the area of personality development, and its relationship to the physiology.

If the key to therapy is the relationship with the therapist (transference) then a fundamentalist might be more effective in some situations. Who knows? (Might need an exorcism.)

I can guarantee that it would turn me off. That's a sure sign that there's those out there who would like it.

--imm

[Bozita]

30. Fundy shrinks? Have you met the folks working for Michelle Bachmann and her hubby?

Liberty U. sounds like Harvard compared to many of the places granting degrees to the therapists at:
http://www.bachmanncounseling.com/

Take a gander at these:
http://www.bachmanncounseling.com/counselors.html