Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Jets, private: Travel Channel right now

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
billlll Donating Member (434 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-10 12:37 PM
Original message
Jets, private: Travel Channel right now
Edited on Sun Sep-19-10 12:43 PM by billlll
See where the big money goes... Not to
Food inspectors nor gas pipeline upkeep

But to private little jets.

Disgusting. I can't watch any more of it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
SheilaT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-10 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. I used to joke that my goal
was to be rich enough to fly first class all the time. Didn't especially bother me that I'd never be that rich.

But now with the ludicrous hassles of flying commercially, I would not at all mind being rich enough to have my own small jet, or to be even part owner of one. You totally avoid the security crap when flying privately.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-10 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. You don't need a jet to do that
I'm doing it with a prop. I very rarely fly commercial. I have to be a bit more flexible with my travel planning, but not by much really.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-10 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Can you get to Europe?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-10 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Theoretically, yes
Edited on Sun Sep-19-10 04:37 PM by MajorChode
Getting back is the really tricky part.

Quite a few private jets would have the same problem.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PacerLJ35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-10 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. The majority of private jets...
are in the "light" to "medium" jet category like the Cessna Citation Bravo and the Learjet 35. Having a 1,000 hours flying the Lear 35, it requires a bit of hops to make it across the Atlantic...Scotland to Iceland to Greenland then Labrador Canada and on to the US. If you can tell, I've done that before.

Only the large corporate jets like the Gulfstreams and Bombardier Global Express really have the range to go west-bound over the Atlantic without stopping...and they probably only make up 10-15% of all business jets sold.

Most corporate jets are people movers, getting corporate workers from one place to another, and are usually NOT the CEOs, etc (although they do travel via corporate jet...but they are often not the primary passengers).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-10 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. I'd like to make that trip someday
But I don't know if I ever will. It won't be in my current plane (Skylane), although it theoretically could be done in that and I don't intend on buying a plane just for that mission. If I do ever find myself with a plane that had enough range with plenty to spare, I might do it just to say I did.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-10 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. With Gulfstream just a few miles up the road, I love the private jet industry.
Edited on Sun Sep-19-10 01:00 PM by aikoaiko

:applaudse: for the G650. Long may she fly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
billlll Donating Member (434 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-10 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. sell the G650 for scrap
And convert the jet factory to prefab housing for the hmless .... Minus Bush's formaldehyde natch
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-10 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. We could fill the factory first with the 5000 employees who work there when they become jobless and
Edited on Sun Sep-19-10 03:33 PM by aikoaiko
...then homeless. Brilliant!!!!

:sarcasm:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-10 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Oh, yes, there will be jobs working FOR the mega-rich. Isn't that GRAND?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-10 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. There are jobs working for the mega-rich and a lot of people like those jobs.

What's wrong with that? :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-10 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
7. "Extreme Yachts" was on today, also.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PacerLJ35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-10 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. A difference...
While a private jet CAN be used much like a private yacht, no private yachts are used like the vast majority of private aircraft...as people movers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PacerLJ35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-10 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
10. Info about "private jets"
I used to fly "private jets"...specifically Learjet 35s. The vast majority of "private jets" would be better called a "corporate airline". In most cases, these jets are mainly used to ferry corporate employees to far-flung locations to conduct business. Many companies use them as corporate shuttles...instead of paying hundreds or thousands per ticket for business flights on airlines, they pay much less per person to fly them on a corporate-owned jet.

The problem with corporate aviation is most people envision the big boss flying to Monaco for dinner, etc. While undoubtedly some corporate aircraft are used that way (mostly in the entertainment industry, etc), the majority are used to conduct legitimate business travel that in most cases is more cost-effective to do without relying on airlines. Here are a few examples of what I've seen in the industry:

- Corporate jet used to fly tech reps to various factories to solve production problems ASAP. Most of the factories are located in small towns with no large-jet service, so the corporate jet saves time and gets the problem fixed faster, ultimately saving the company wasted time and money.

- Junior and mid-level management schedules the jet to attend meetings in areas that aren't easy to get into (like Waterloo, IA). Using an airline would require a $800 ticket per person, fly in the day prior, rent a car, hotel rooms for the 6-8 people for two nights, and then fly out the next day due to limited airline service. The jet flies them in there in the morning, they do the meetings and conduct their business, then fly home that afternoon. The flight on the jet costs about 2/3s the cost of the airline tickets, plus no rental car or hotel rooms to pay for...and the personnel don't waste 3 days of company time.

- One company does site inspections to ensure quality control, etc. They require a team of 10 people to do these inspections. Instead of flying all 10 via airline twice a week, they fly them on a corporate shuttle aircraft, saving time and money.

I've seen corporate aircraft all used in those manners, and in my years of experience, that's the norm, not the exception. The trips to luxury locations with a CEO and his family are generally the exception. They do occur but when you look at a company's aircraft utilization, 90%+ of the aircraft's time is used for actual business purposes. In fact, many companies forbid execs or anyone else using the jet for personal use (many, but not all).

Most corporate flight departments employ a dispatcher that schedules the aircraft...they are often kept busy because many people from different departments request travel on the aircraft. Corporate jets actually save a company money if they are used correctly and are utilized enough.

In my time flying the Learjet, I'd say many of the locations that I flew to were very out-of-the-way places with no or very limited air service. I never once flew the jet to some exotic destination for a passenger's personal use.

Bottom line: If your company has a lot of employees doing a lot of travel, it often makes more sense to own an airplane instead of paying someone else (ie airlines) to do it for you. If your company does NOT do much travel, it's cheaper to fly commercial. That being said, many companies perform a lot of business travel.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PacerLJ35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-10 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. And to respond to the anti-Gulfstream posts...
Gulfstream, along with Cessna, Hawker Beechcraft, Piper and other US companies that manufacture corporate aircraft add significantly to our economy. Approximately half the corporate jets being sold these days are for export, and the aviation segment is still one manufacturing field that the US dominates in. To suggest we board up these companies because you think they are akin to luxury yachts (which really ARE used for personal pleasure only...I have never heard of a yacht being used to ferry corporate personnel) is not only stupid but reeks of ignorance. One, you'd put a lot of people out of work. Two, you'd close up one of the last industries the US has a lead in (aviation manufacturing). Three, you'd hurt our national productivity.

Build housing for the poor you say? That's a great idea and probably well intentioned, but who would pay for that? Taxpayers...you know, the ones you suggest should join the poor once their once-profitable employers close their doors because you don't like the product (or even understand what the product does).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SheilaT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-10 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. That's how Midwest Airlines came about.
Whatever company it was (I've forgotten, and I'm too lazy to do the Google search) was ferrying around enough people exactly as you've described, that someone in the company said, We ought to fill the empty seats with paying passengers. And it was a wonderful airline while it lasted. I loved them.

As you've pointed out, the incredible advantage of the smaller planes is that they can land at fields that couldn't take even the smaller of the commercial jets. I forget what the figure is, but there are many hundreds, maybe thousands of airports all over this country that have no commercial service, and it's great when a company can fly whoever directly to the city they need to be.

I've read that for other kinds of people, the eighth share, or sixteenth share in some kind of a charter can be very cost effective also.

Heck, even for us normal people, the hassle of having to drive sometimes many miles to get to the first airport, and then sometimes many miles from the one we land at, is a huge inconvenience. There used to be scheduled air service to many, many more airports back before deregulation. Now, it can be hard to get there from here. No matter where there and here are.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-10 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Also, many (if not most) corporate aircraft are props
For short hauls, a King Air is even more economical and can get into literally thousands of airports the airlines either can't or won't go.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 19th 2024, 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC