Forget noisy kids in restaurants; let's talk wild hellions run amok in HOTELS

[Sapphocrat]

No, actually, let's not "talk," as there is no room for debate, AFAIC.

As is our custom two or three times a year, my lovely wife and I scrape together enough for a quiet weekend at a local hotel -- for her birthday or for mine, or for our anniversary. We're not rich (more like hanging on by the skin of our teeth), but damn it, we deserve a little diversion once in a while, lest we lose our ever-lovin' minds.

And so the computers, and the cats, and everything else that normally distracts us from each other stays home, and we head for a night or two to a local hotel -- one in particular that is neither the Waldorf nor the No-Tell Motel, but somewhere in between (but isn't even as grand as the hotel in which we were married).

This hotel -- all of a mile and a half and barely five minutes from our home -- has a big-screen TV and the one thing that lures us back every time: a big, square jacuzzi tub with about a million jets, large enough for both of us to lie down in (completely submerged, if we wanted to).

With the soothing, bubbly hot water melting away our aches and pains, endless Lifetime movies for us to ridicule, tasty (and most reasonable) food delivery from countless little-known Mom-and-Pop shops, a caring and attentive staff at the ready with almost anything we might desire, and -- most important of all -- time alone to actually LOOK at each other and TALK with each other endlessly, without interruption, we cherish these mini-vacations as would better-monied folk a multi-month cruise 'round the world on the QMII.

And so, when the Jonas Bros. Brigade invaded the entire hotel, evoking my two-most used phrases of the weekend -- "herd of elephants bowling" and "USC Thundering Herd" -- we were less than pleased. Far less than pleased.

My lovely wife has blogged the experience, to which I can add only: We're not talking about an hour lost in a restaurant spent enduring a shrieking baby whose parents have become so deaf as to refuse to take it outside for a time-out; we're talking about "parents" (and I use that word loosely) who make it clear they don't give a damn who may be disturbed, or to what degree, or at what hour.

Oh, yes, one more thing: It's not as if these parents were holed up in in the middle of the desert with nothing to entertain their progeny; in this small city, there are many lovely, large, green parks with playrgounds, hands-on children's museums within a 15-minute drive, a 16-theatre movie complex within a two-minute drive, and much, much more. There is also a swimming pool at the hotel itself.

But did any of these parents avail themselves or their squawling offspring of these many delights? You guess.

And one more thing: Do these parents -- one of whom merely shot me a dirty look as I asked, as nicely as I could muster, four of her hellions to please "keep it down," and another who merely shrugged at my complaint that her kids had 1) kept us up 'til 1:00 a.m. and 2) woke us both this morning with their thundering -- have any idea how much they're making us become more anti-child (and more anti-parents) than we ever would have been before?

And no, folks, I was not the perfect child. But I had parents who took me on many, many vacations throughout my childhood, and insisted I behave and keep the noise level down in consideration of those around us. My parents were not authoritarians by a long shot, but I would never have dreamed of even walking "heavy" in a rented room, much less running up and down the hallways, squealing like a stuck piglet, nor dropping food and drink in my wake and leaving it there.

That said, we had a lovely weekend otherwise. That said, this is what nearly ruined it for us -- and 1) certainly ruined our sleep, and 2) nearly derailed our -- how shall I put this? -- "Adult Marital Activities" (which were far, far quieter than even FM talk radio):

If We Wanted to Listen to Undisciplined, Screeching Brats We Could Do that For Free at Home.

[ixion]

1. k/r... well said

:applause:

As a child, I wasn't allowed to run around anywhere in a public place screaming and hollering, because it was considered rude.

I still think it's rude.

[Initech]

2. I will raise you one - airplanes.

I've never had that problem with kids, ever. But the other day on a Frontier flight from Orange County to Denver, during takeoff there was this kid, probably not even a year old, SCREAMING at the top of his lungs, and the mom tried to quiet him, but he just kept getting louder and louder. I wanted to sleep on the plane but couldn't so I broke out the iPod and my noise-cancelling Sennheisers as soon as I possibly could to block out the noise.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. That was a kid in pain

take offs and landings with the pressure change really hurt to young ears.

My solution to that problem is exactly that one... noise cancelling and IPOD.

[Initech]

18. That's exactly what I figured.

[WolverineDG]

14. ever flown when your ears don't "pop"?

To say that it hurts like hell is a massive understatement. Feels like someone poking 1000 icepicks in your ears & that your head will explode at the same time. Unless it's obvious the kid is being unruly & the parent is doing nothing, I give screaming kids a pass because I know what it feels like when your ears don't pop.

dg

[Mojorabbit]

44. I am 54 and my ears do not ever pop

which is why I do not fly if I can help it. I also cannot hear clearly for at least 24 hours after landing.

[WolverineDG]

65. Check with your doctor about that

there might be something he/she could do for that. There's also something called "Ear planes," little tubes that you stick in your ears at take off & before landing that help. Other tricks I use (to some success, depending on how congested my sinuses are) are Sudafed tablets (max strength possible), afrin nasal spray, & chewing gum. Anything to keep my microscopic Eustachian tubes open.

dg

[Mojorabbit]

147. Thanks!

I have tried everything you mention except the ear tubes and will certainly look into them!

[WolverineDG]

154. you can get them in the pharmacy section in places like Target, walmart, walgreens

usually in the same place as the ear plugs. :)

good luck!

dg

[pnwmom]

17. A baby or toddler in a plane, screaming? It's the ear pain.

I had ear pain once on a plane, and I understand why they scream.

[K8-EEE]

124. I AGREE!! My ears sometimes KILL in a plane

If I was 2 I'd def be screaming, especially if they already have ear issues like lots of kids do.

[eyeofdelphi]

31. not to be rude

but i think you're just speaking from a place of unawareness. airplane rides are awful for kids. we took our son to see my parents when he had just turned a year old. he screamed and wailed and made awful faces. i felt so horrible. we took suckers and ring pops like the doctor suggested to help pop his ears, but he was in so much pain he didn't even want the candy. luckily the stewardesses were really nice and let us walk around with him in their little area and gave him all the juice and cookies he wanted. there's nothing else we could do as parents. the doctor told us we could give him benadryl but i felt weird about "drugging" my kid. we did it on the way back and it was a bit better. but i still felt bad about it. anyway, it's not like we as parents can just magically make our kids all better and silent. we tried, but you can't fix that kind of pain till the ride's over. but people without kids don't know that kind of stuff.
but unless there's some circumstance like airplane pain, then by all means tell parents to get their kids in line. how were the parents sleeping with all that noise? or the chaperones or whatever? what the hell were they doing? i swear i really tell my kid, when we see some other kid in a store doing the noodle and screaming for a toy, i tell him, look at that, don't ever act like that, see how silly he looks and how everyone is staring at him. he's almost 3 and he's never done that so far.

[pnwmom]

45. Another group of parents I can't blame are those whose kids have disabilities.

And you can't tell by looking, usually, which children may have trouble controlling their behavior. Children with autism, for example. And those kids should be able to visit their grandparents, too, or take other trips with their families.

When I'm in a situation like an airplane flight where I'm exposed to difficult people -- children OR adults -- I just try to be thankful that I don't have to deal with them 24 hours a day.

[Lance_Boyle]

109. You felt weird about "drugging" the kid so you let him suffer and cause others to suffer

over the course of a flight - brilliant parenting there. Next time he has allergy symptoms that benedryl would relieve maybe you should just let him suffer to keep your precious mind at ease. Jeebus.

[Sapphocrat]

33. I hate that with a passion, too, but...

...I realize it's kind of difficult to suggest the little screamers be taken outside.

Not, mind you, that I wouldn't like to suggest just that...!

[Dorian Gray]

101. The plane doesn't bother me as much

because it's not as if the parent can pick the child up and leave. They're stuck.

But a restaurant or hotel? If the child is misbehaving, they can evacuate and make the experience more pleasant for everyone else involved.

[Carni]

115. In defense of that parent

Taking an infant on a plane is a nightmare under GOOD circumstances -- the infant probably had severe ear pain and the
parent can't hand them a stick of gum, or tell them to take a drink.

I know it's annoying to listen to a baby screech on a plane but there really isn't too much a parent can do about it.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

126. I've been there...

I was a new mother, and had little experience flying myself. It was my 6 month old baby's first flight. It wasn't really a vacation. I was taking him to visit my grandmother, because we thought she might not make it through the year. We felt it was important for her to meet her great-grandson before she died.

He was fine once we were up and cruising, but ascent and descent were pure hell for him, me, and everybody else on the plane. And I'm sure my distress at his cries didn't help him any.

There are some things parents can try with their infants and toddlers though; and I really wish travel agents and/or airlines would at least direct parents to internet sites that offer suggestions for making their children, and thus the other passengers, as comfortable as possible.

[Carni]

131. Yes, it's hell on parents on a plane with a baby

been there too and didn't enjoy it too much!

[BoneDaddy]

116. I would be embarassed if my kids did that

and it would NEVER be allowed. Shame on those parents. I find entitlement to be the biggest obstacle to American culture.

[Odin2005]

3. Probably well-off families, I'm assuming. Rich kids = entitled BRATS.

[rfranklin]

7. Yes, I 've noticed how lower income children are always so well behaved...

haven't you? :sarcasm:

[emilyg]

11. Oh yes

:rofl: :rofl:

[Odin2005]

46. In my experience the worst brats were the wealthy brats.

They have the world given to them and don't understand what NO means.

[Control-Z]

129. ...

:rofl:

[Sapphocrat]

35. That's my assumption, too.

They were in a shiny, brand-spanking-new SUV that didn't even have permanent plates yet.

(Does my bias against nouveau-riche SUVers come through? I suppose it does. But I won't deny it.)

[NMMNG]

37. Not to mention

the fact that they could afford to take half a dozen kids to a concert. Not cheap by any means.

[Sapphocrat]

85. That too.

And stay in a nice place, and feed them and all.

What would you estimate -- 10, 12 kids? More? (Granted, it sounded like 300, but.)

[rfranklin]

4. Drunken cops at a convention keep us up half the night....

Our revenge was calling their rooms at 7 a.m., waking them up, and then hanging up.

[givemebackmycountry]

See, now THAT'S creative thinking.

Our revenge was calling their rooms at 7 a.m., waking them up, and then hanging up.

Repeatedly I hope!

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. My parents never evah allowed us to do that

I have a theory... which will not go well, but how we raise kids ebbs and flows from generation to generation. But these days kids have way too much crap and parents don't know how to properly discipline their kids. And no, you do not need to lay a hand on a kid... time outs are just damn wonderful. But they are even afraid of doing that.

[Sapphocrat]

36. I'm trying to figure that out myself.

Is it a generational-skip thing?

What trips me up is that these parents I saw were about my age (50ish), which means their parents were of the 50s/Mickey Mouse Club generation -- who I believe were raised to behave properly, civilized...

But I could be wrong.

One thing I know is true: You are so right, nadin -- no one ever need lift a hand against a child. A stern word or a withering look of disapproval is enough. (At least, it was with me.)

[Odin2005]

52. What happened to GROUNDING?

If I was really, REALLY bad I would lose, say, my Nintendo for a month. It works, in fact it is much more effective then corporal punishment.

[EFerrari]

58. And before GROUNDING, grounding.

My kids used to get very hyper from all the stress around them. I had to reach for ways to help us ALL get grounded. Once, I got rid of all our living room furniture and put in pieces that required you to lean back a little and relax. I also put in a "2 cup of coffee rule". It was like a twice a day "quiet time" for 30 minutes, when we got up and when we got home. That meant, the kids needed to learn to see visual cues (are the cups still out, is the door open) and learn how to use that time to organize themselves quietly. And us adults needed it as much or more than the kids did.

[Odin2005]

67. IMO it would help a lot of kids to learn some basic mindfulness stuff.

[Sapphocrat]

88. What a wonderful idea.

As Odin says above: "mindfulness" -- just paying attention to non-verbal cues -- can make a deep impression, and in a very positive way.

Damn, Beth, I had a feeling you were a terrific parent. ;)

[Sapphocrat]

87. You are so right.

I was grounded all of once myself, when I was 10 or 11. I forget exactly what I did, but I lost my bike for a week, which was a HUGE deal to me. And it worked. Not only was I left "wingless," but I was too ashamed to tell my friends I couldn't come over/go somewhere because I was grounded.

Very effective, indeed.

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. We called the cops on a swim team staying in a motel in Springfield, MO

They were about 8-10 years old. There were about 10 of them. Absolutely running wild. Running past our room and then sliding into the pool on a water slide they had made. Screaming. A couple of them thought it would be fun to run up and down and knock on every door. At 11 pm. At midnight they were still running and sliding into the pool even though it supposedly closed at 9 pm. So we called the front desk and the woman literally begged us to call the cops. Said they had been there for 4 nights and had not only destroyed the peace but also the rooms they were staying in. I asked well why are they STILL here? She said well the manager talked to them this afternoon and told them they have to be gone tomorrow by 10 am.

At 1 am after a particularly loud and obnoxious shriek, we called 911. Cops came. Kids shut up. Next morning when we checked out, the manager apologized and did not charge us for our room. She said she had called the swim club they belonged to and told them none of their teams could ever stay in her motel again.

It was one of of the most insane nights I have ever spent on vacation.

[GreenPartyVoter]

10. Where the heck were the parents and chaperons of those kids? I have taken cheer teams on overnight

competition trips, and while I grant you there was the occasional shrieking giggle it got cut short in a real hurry. We really emphasized consideration for other people to those kids. Maybe I was just lucky that they were pretty well-behaved kids in the first place. I never had one so wild (s)he couldn't be managed. (Thank heavens!)

We did often see other groups of kids from other sports and activities in the hotels, and yes sometimes they were running amok. Not anything like you were talking about but still off wandering without an adult with them.

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. Saw one adult briefly when we first got there

Looked like a 20 something who was chaperoning.

I was with my girlfriend and we are both teachers. We teach this age group. We tried to talk to these kids but they were high on sugar or maybe even meth. They were not listening.

[WolverineDG]

25. maybe even meth

:spray: :rofl:

Man, I really hate checking into a hotel that's been invaded by hordes of kids. I'll put up with the ruckus until I feel it's time for the kiddos to be in bed (say 10 p.m.), but after that, I've got the front desk on speed dial.

dg

[Odin2005]

53. where the FUCK were the ADULTS?

:wow:

[Sapphocrat]

90. Damn shame you had to call 911...

...but I guess management is often skeevy about taking on guests lest word get around the place isn't "family-friendly" or the like.

But, still... Oh, my stars, I wouldn't have been half as cool as you in that situation. Last night, my dear wife had to ask me, before I barged out into the hall: "You are going to put pants on, aren't you?" :D

[renate]

9. I wonder whether you could talk to the management

Tell them how much these special weekends mean to you, and that you chose their hotel to spend your hard-to-come-by time and money on, and ask whether you could have a complimentary night on a low-occupancy date (the room would be empty anyway). It can't hurt to try. Good luck, and I'm sorry that such a special night was spoiled. :(

[rufus dog]

20. Great suggestion

I stayed at a place four nights a week for business for almost a year. I heard stories from the staff about the crazy weekends but thought it was a bit exaggerated. Then rather than flying cross country I stayed over a weekend. A youth hockey team was staying there, the running up and down was no biggie to me, I go to bed late anyway, but then I came back from dinner and the parents were in the bar and the kids were playing hockey in the hallway. Not just messing around, but had the goals out and had a full on game. Again no biggie to me because they weren't on my floor, but I was shocked that parents would let the kids swing sticks and bump each other into walls. The Front Desk clerk told me she asked the kids to stop and then a parent came up and scolded her. When she asked if the kids were allowed to do this at home she was told yes. Anyway she offered to comp my room and I told her no problem they weren't near me, but she ended up having to cover a few guests that had the misfortune of being near the kids.

[Sapphocrat]

43. Done and done, twice.

We talked to the management -- not blaming them, of course, but making it clear that we do choose their hotel for our special weekends, and letting them know we would be asking in the future if there were any kid-gangs booked on any future weekends, we would be going elsewhere, or staying home -- no hard feelings.

We do have a lot of sympathy for the staff -- we know there's only so much they can do.

Thanks for your kind words, renate. :)

[tammywammy]

13. That's just awful n/t

[pnwmom]

15. Haven't any of you ever had your sleep disturbed by drunk ADULTS

at a hotel?

It's not always children who cause the problems. Mine never have, either in a hotel or a restaurant. But when my daughter got married, I had to convince her to have wine at the reception -- she didn't want any drunks at HER wedding.

[EFerrari]

23. It isn't always children, that's true but it's harder to deal with the kids

because you can't really be very direct with them.

[pnwmom]

38. How direct can you be with drunk adults? n/t

[EFerrari]

51. You can call the cops. That's pretty direct. n/t

[pnwmom]

86. Have you ever actually done that? Would you call the cops

because someone was drunk and loud in a hotel?

[EFerrari]

121. Depends on the situation.

And my ex was a comedian so we lived in hotels a good part of the year. I never called the cops but did use the threat of security when I needed to.

[cartach]

82. Give them enough drinks to make them pass out fast. EOM

[WolverineDG]

28. I have less tolerance for adults

fuck calling the front desk on adults. I go straight to the cops.

dg

[Sapphocrat]

50. Many, many times.

The episode that stands out most vividly in my memory -- before I learned to speak up for myself -- involved my hop-skip-and-jump through a minefield of alcohol-induced vomit right in front of my door the next morning.

I don't blame the kids even a tiny fraction as much as I blame the parents. I'm mad at adults, and only adults, for not reining in themselves or their kids. They're supposed to be the adults.

[Dappleganger]

105. drunk adults having LOUD sex.

And no, you do NOT look like my daddy!

[EFerrari]

16. You'd think parents, of all people, would understand how precious

quiet is.

[Cleita]

41. Or at the super market.

I try to shop during the week when the little darlings are in school, but in the summer I can't avoid them. They run up and down the aisles never watching where they are going. Sometimes the antics are accompanied by blood curdling screams and the parents ignore them. I have almost stepped on little ones I didn't see and frail little old people have been knocked around by them as well. It never used to be this bad. Kids were usually fairly well behaved but it seems this new generation coming up aren't taught to be respectful in public.

[EFerrari]

49. The nuclear family doesn't have much help training children.

I had both grandmothers and my aunts and uncles and my brother and my husband's siblings to help socialize the boys. And it took all of them. lol

[Sapphocrat]

92. Oh, ask my mom...

...my 89-year-old mom, who is physically frail, but still gets around by herself (and thank bloody goodness for that -- her independence keeps her alive), and grows feistier every year as she's confronted by mindless dolts who don't seem to give a damn about anyone but themselves.

I was telling Mom about our Adventures in Kiddieland this weekend, and she reminded me of the two kiddos in CVS (formerly Long's; a good-sized drug/variety store for y'all who aren't blessed with one) riding razor scooters through the aisles (!). One of the kids nearly dropped his scooter on her foot -- which might not seem like much, until one considers that Dear Mom bleeds like a river, thanks to all the blood-thinners she's on.

Then there are the stroller-pushers who, apparently distracted by the sale on dental floss, have pushed Junior's stroller right into my Achilles tendon...

Good thing it was my Achilles tendon and not Mom's, or we would have spent the night in the E.R. trying to get the bleeding to stop.

[Gaedel]

95. To some people

Baby strollers, wheelchairs, and those damn three wheel electric scooters (most of whose occupants appear to be terminally fat rather than crippled) are the tools provided to help them push through crowds more quickly and efficiently.

[DiverDave]

98. I shop at 6am on sunday morning.

Hardly a soul, and if they miss a weekly special price change?
I usually get it for free.
Saturday is good too, but I get up early anyway.

[Sapphocrat]

54. I'm getting the idea...

...it's either 1) they don't get it, because they don't get the chance to reconnect, or (this is terrible of me to think) 2) they don't want anyone else to have the peace and quiet they're denied.

Yeah, that's a terrible thing to think. Isn't it? (Is it?)

[EFerrari]

55. I used to resent people who looked like their lives weren't structured

by children. Are you kidding? After five or six sleep deprived years? Resentment galore!

lol

:hi:

[Sapphocrat]

94. LOL!

But, seriously, isn't everything a trade-off?

Me, I entertained the idea of having kids (us Italians, you know!), yet finally came to the realization that I really didn't want to have to trade a part of myself for whatever joys a child might bring (which I'll never know, but that's OK -- whatcha never know, ya never miss). A lot of people will call me selfish, but I think being honest with myself (and not having kids because I thought I should) does a greater a service to my KidsWhoNeverWere than would my having kids if I wasn't 100% positive I wanted them.

That's grammatically awkward, but I'm sure my meaning comes across.

OTOH, you pay in sleep deprivation (and much more) for the privilege of having adult children someday.

Meanwhile, I get to fawn over my niece and nephew with complete abandon, as much as if they were the, er, fruits of my own labor.

I think both are good trade-offs each in its own way... but impossible to really know, eh?

[HillWilliam]

128. That's what I love about being an uncle

I can take them out, dote on them, sugar them up, and give their parents a little break in the meantime. When they get loud at one end and smelly at the other, I can hand them back.

:rofl: :hi:

[Sapphocrat]

145. You just repeated my favorite line, more or less...

"Love to hold 'em , play with 'em, and spoil 'em rotten, but when they start to smell, leak, or make scary noises, I hand 'em back and go home."
:rofl:

[awoke_in_2003]

108. they have to live day in and day out...

with the results of their bad parenting. Since they have to live with it, they think everybody else should have to, too.

[walldude]

156. Most of us do, and most of us raise nice courteous kids

but people don't post about when a kid holds a door open for them or when a kid is playing nice and quiet at a hotel.

These kid bashing threads are a crock of shit.

[JVS]

19. I've never had that problem. But then again I stay at $29.95/night places...

where one time I opened the door to discover that a body had been found in one of the other rooms.

[pnwmom]

40. O.M.G. n/t

[GoddessOfGuinness]

77. Forget wild hellions run amok in HOTELS; let's talk crabs and bedbugs!

;-)

[WinkyDink]

21. I'd have insisted the mgmnt do something post-haste.

And have done so, in the past.

Yellowstone comped our room on one occasion.

[Journeyman]

22. So where was the "caring and attentive staff" in all this? . . .

". . . at the ready with almost anything (you) might desire?"

Hotels have quiet hours, generally from 10 pm on, so why didn't you get management to intercede on your behalf?

[DefenseLawyer]

24. Your life sounds really tough

I hope you can somehow survive this hardship and misery. Loud people in a motel? Seriously? That's all you've got?

[NMMNG]

34. Actually, that's not all we have

There's also the multi-million dollar, nationwide effort to eradicate our rights (if not our lives). Just waiting in limbo these pat two years waiting to see if our marriage would still be valid has been hell--not that you'd know anything about that. Then there's the fact that I've been uninsured for three years and she for more than a decade thanks to corporate greed, so we pay for everything out of pocket. And, as my wife noted already, we're far from wealthy--or even middle class.

I could go on, but I really don't owe you even what I've already given you.

[DefenseLawyer]

48. See? You do have real things to complain about.

Try a bed and breakfast. They are usually reasonably priced and almost never have kids. You never know when you go out; sometimes the movie will suck, sometimes your chicken will be undercooked, sometimes there will be a loud kid. The world is full of kids and unfortunately they are sometimes loud. Sometimes they will even invade your motel hot tub experience. Maybe you mark it up to bad luck that you picked a day and a hotel that had also been chosen by people with kids and move on. It might be easier than starting a crusade to make kids shut up in your presence.

[NMMNG]

57. Actually, I don't

You see, everything we mention is always pooh-poohed by people as "pet issues". Can't legally marry? Well la-dee-dah. There's a fucking war going on don't you know? Gay people can legally be fired in about 30 states just for being gay? Get over yourself! The economy is still in the toilet, man! People are crusading to eradicate what rights you have and even make your very existence a crime? Geesh man, gasoline is over $3 a gallon so WTF are you bitching about? Stop being such a single issue voter.


So no. I have nothing to complain about. Sorry if we invaded your pretty little world with silly stuff on...a discussion board. Go back to whatever it was you were doing before we bothered you..

[DefenseLawyer]

132. Whoa, get back on the tracks

Life is too short to lose your mind because of loud kids at a motel. Once in a while things aren't ideal. I'm not saying you are wrong to be disappointed or even pissed. I just don't think it merits a half page diatribe about how fucked up kids are, that's all. You'll live longer if you let a few things like that go. How you twisted that around to say I was minimizing GLBT issues I haven't a clue.

[Sapphocrat]

59. Yes, we have plenty of "real things" to complain about.

Does it bother you that we queers complain about the very same things (some of) you straights complain about?

What's the problem? Am I reminding you that we homos experience the same annoyances you straighties do?

'Cause if it's not that, then what is it?

We're not on a "crusade," buddy. We actually like kids -- but we would like kids a whole lot more if parents would learn to parent.

We can't afford a B&B. If we could, we would.

Hell, if we could afford it, we would cloister ourselves away where you wouldn't be bothered by us -- and where we wouldn't be awakened at 1:00 a.m. by kids we never wanted to have.

[BoneDaddy]

117. self delete

[begin_within]

26. It's the "entitlement syndrome"

and I have seen it discussed a lot recently on some of the Disneyland-related discussion forums. People think because they paid XX dollars to stay there, or to be there for the day, or whatever, that they somehow own the place, they are the boss, and they are entitled to get whatever they want and behave any way they want to. They're on vacation, dammit, and they're going to have a good time, dammit, and they're entitled to that, and if you don't like it, get out of their way. There's an epidemic of this type of thinking these days. "I'm the paying customer, so therefore I'm also the boss!"

[Sapphocrat]

56. If I were a religious sort, I'd say "Bless you!"

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[BoneDaddy]

118. I think it is the syndrome of our age

It is like a disease that knows no race, age, ethnicity, socio-economic status, sexual orientation. I see it everywhere.

It reminds me of Finding Nemo (i have kids). There are these sea gulls who fight over every little scrap of anything the whole time saying only one thing "mine, mine, mine, mine, mine....."

[Brewman_Jax]

27. That's what hotel management is for

I got a knock at my door for having my TV up too loud (I don't remember why I had the TV up that loud), but if that can get a visit from the front desk, then they should have little trouble dealing with unsupervised hellions and other such disturbances.

[wtmusic]

29. +1

You're entitled to reasonable peace and quiet, and you're not getting it.

If management considers it my problem, I'm certainly not coming back.

[givemebackmycountry]

30. When I first moved to Orlando, I was at an Extended Stay hotel for three weeks.

And on the third weekend came the Shriners.
About 100 of them.
On Harley's.
LOUD Harley's.
And those that weren't on Harley's were in huge pickup trucks.
With huge exhausts...


If they weren't the pre-cursor to these tea-bagging assholes we now have to deal with, they were close.

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. I worked with a shriner years ago

Yep, he's probably a teabagger today.

[pnwmom]

39. Yeah, that must have been a quiet little group! n/t

[Sapphocrat]

61. OMG, you win!

Shriners on Harleys -- I picture the love children of Jerry Lewis and Sonny Barger. LOL

(With mucho respect, deference, and heartfelt apologies for any offense to Sonny!)

[cartach]

83. They're the wealthy tea baggers

who don't associate with the lower class ones.

[SoCalDem]

93. We spent a month in a downtown Denver motel

with a dog, a cat, a 14 mo old and a 2 mo old baby..

My husband was lucky...he got to leave for work every day.. I could not leave for fear a maid would let the dog or cat out and the kids in February in Denver was a very bad idea too..

That was the most miserable month ever.. and to top it off, our 5 yr old was in the hospital in Minnesota with Grandma in attendance..( our house sold & we had to move during his annual 6 wk stay in the hospital)..That was the year we had Christmas in February:)

the motel was not noisy..except for the fact that it was where two freeways come together:(

[Dappleganger]

106. Orlando hotels are notorious for loud crowds...

even if you leave one there's no guarantee you'll find another one with quiet.

BTW, most Harley riders we have been next to have been quite courteous.

[SheilaT]

42. Several thoughts, the first of which is:

Why the hell does hotel management tolerate this sort of behavior? They need to be willing to tell unruly guests that if they don't pipe down immediately, they must leave. Regardless of age or station in life.

Several years ago we were on a family trip (myself, husband, our two sons who were about 7 and 11, maybe a year older, at the time). It was over spring break, and when we spent the night at a pretty decent hotel on the first night, we discovered to our intense astonishment that in that city, over spring break, it was a custom for local parents to let their kids stay for a couple of nights at the hotel. Without parents present, I might add. I cannot begin to guess what exactly the parents were thinking. Now, while the kids in question created a certain amount of noise, the check-in clerk let us know what was going on, and put us in a room as far away from the pool as possible. That was the locus of most of the rooms the teens were in, as well as most of the noise. So our stay wasn't actually affected.

I must say, that all the many times I've stayed in hotels/motels in my life, the worst problem I think I've encountered was paper-thin walls so that we could all too clearly listen to the TV which was on in the next room. That particular experience made us start staying at better-quality places, meaning they tended to have thicker walls. Lucky me, I'm a pretty sound sleeper, so once I go to sleep I'm usually out for the count. But then, I've never encountered some of the situations so vividly described here.

[Sapphocrat]

68. This is a pretty solid place...

...meaning, we can't hear a thing in the room next to us -- but I expect even the best engineering couldn't save us from incessant pounding directly above us.

As for the management, maybe we're as hesitant to offend them as they are us. We're not wussies by any means (OMG, ask me sometime about how ballsy I can be!), but -- perhaps because we've both spent many years trying to find a balance between our bosses and the public we've dealt with -- we really do understand how difficult it is to maintain a balance between management and guests.

Honest to goodness, we both abhor the idea of being assholes to the employees -- who are probably killing themselves for minimum wage (as we are/have been) -- as opposed to coming off like assholes to the folks we think should know better.

Oh, christ, we really are bend-over-backwards wuss-a-mundos, aren't we?

(Crimeny, did that make a lick of sense to anyone?)

[aquart]

47. Did you inform management of your unhappiness?

[Sapphocrat]

73. Done, twice.

Once while the hellions were running wild (and after I'd kindly asked them to cool it), and again in the morning.

Maybe we should have been more demanding with the guys behind the desk -- but we just couldn't bring ourselves to rag on them much for the hellions they hadn't raised (wrong).

[Warpy]

60. If the hotel is nice enough to sport 2 person Jacuzzis

then it's nice enough to sport some sort of hotel security. A call to the front desk at 10 PM might have done some good since that's far too late for anybody's shrieking brats to be out of bed, let alone outside the hotel room. If there were no hotel security, I'd call the cops, full of concern for the poor abandoned children in the hotel hallways, no parents in sight, THINK about what could happen to the poor little dears surrounded by transient hotel guests.

There is nothing like having Officer Friendly interrupt the proceedings to jar some sense into those clueless twits those kids got stuck with for parents.

I really have to feel sorry for kids like that on one level. The other level says "If you want to behave like a wild animal, do out OUTSIDE."

[NMMNG]

64. This particular place

Has but two suites that have the Jacuzzis. All of the other rooms are standard rooms with basic showers or tubs. Sadly we had the suite on the second floor and the biggest group of undomesticated children and negligent parents had the suite above us. There's no security guard since it's such a small place (about 20 rooms total).

As mentioned above thread we did complain to the management, but it appeared they were hesitant both to displease us and to piss off the parents of the wildebeasts (since except for a few guests from out of state it appeared they were the only other guests in the place--and were taking the suite above us and a several other rooms. So we ended up getting meek reassurances that the kids would calm down after the concert (they didn't) and no real action.

[DebJ]

70. LOL 'undomesticated chldren'. I'll have to borrow that! n/t

[applegrove]

62. Gosh I remember playing tag at the Chateau Montebello one easter as a kid.

My two brothers and sister spent a whole day chasing me and never caught me. There were wings, and stairs everywhere and a huge lobby where I could look out and see them all coming. It was fun. I even tripped and fell down a whole set of stairs and kept running. What are kids supposed to do in hotels if they can't play tag or hide and go seek?

[RKP5637]

63. I stayed in a motel not knowing a rock concert was in the area that night and the attendees were

staying there. It was (had been) a large Best Western, generally where I stay when traveling because the prices are fair and they seem well run. This night was the exception. About 2AM buses of people poured in, people all over the place high and lots of noise. Banging on doors, screaming, just all kinds of hell, I guess about 2,000 people quickly descended on the place. All groupies for this band.

I'm pretty reasonable, I could deal with it if it had not gone on all night. Somebody started banging on my door looking for Betty. I said Betty is not here. Pause. Bang Bang Bang Betty, Betty open up Betty. The guy was really high and getting pissed because Betty was not there. He had the wrong room, but thought mine was his. So I called the desk to complain after it had been going on about an hour. Did no good. So second time I called for the police. They came and the guy looking for Betty had gone off wherever. The presence of the police calmed the whole place down some.

Got to sleep. Next morning when I checked out they gave me a full refund for everything, room and meals. Also said they would never rent out rooms like than again in block to a rock concert. It was quite an experience especially with this guy trying to break my door down looking for Betty.

SO, when those kids you encountered grow up this well might be what they'll be like.

[NMMNG]

66. Oy

We've already decided that from here on out we'll check the concert roster before making any reservations. Anything like Justin Bieber, The Jonas Brothers or Hillary Duff means we book some other weekend. Yo Yo Ma or Barbara Striesand is fine. Jimmy Buffet.....maybe.


BTW, have you seen Betty around lately? ;-)

[RKP5637]

69. No, I'm still looking for Betty banging on doors!

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :)

[Radical Activist]

71. What's that noise?

Oh. Children laughing.




The last time I had this problem my girlfriend and I made a point of having the loudest, head-board banging, screaming sex we could manage first thing in the morning. Maybe it made the parents more aware of how thin the walls are.

[NMMNG]

74. I actually sugessted to my wife

that if we were a little bolder (and less tactful) we might make it sound like a lesbian porn event were occurring in the room, and maybe even dropping in the hallways some terms that would have the kids asking their parents some decidedly uncomfortable questions. Hey, if they won't keep the little things under control they might as well suffer along with us, eh?

[Radical Activist]

76. Yes, exactly.

It was actually quieter the next night and day. I hope their parents had just that moment of embarrassment with their children. :)

[flvegan]

72. Never question the precious snowflakes. Secondly, never question

their selfish, shitty parents.

Bad mojo around here.

[Sapphocrat]

75. FL...

...I have no more idea what you mean than does a pancake-snowflake-bad-mojo-bunny, but since I love you and trust you so unconditionally, I'll just take your word for it! :D

[flvegan]

80. I return the accolade.

And that is one cute bunny.

[PDJane]

78. Sigh. I'm getting old. There's a reason that

post-menopausal women can't have children. Don't get me wrong, please, I love children. My own was a surprise and a delight.....his teachers didn't always think so, but that's because he was 'gifted', easily bored, and a real smartmouth. (For instance, he asked a young man who was making a nuisance of himself in day care if his parents were married. It got more interesting as he got older.)

However, he didn't run around screaming, his mayhem was more inventive, was usually silent, and he didn't scream or yell at all...If you scream in my house, honey, you'd better be confronting an axe weilder, or your bedroom had better be on fire.

As far as adults go, I prefer not to know how many times you want to have sex with your wife, don't want to overhear fights about your private business, and don't want what you had for lunch or dinner or snack outside my door. I also don't want to deal with your obnoxious offspring. The hotel staff shouldn't have to baby sit, and I shouldn't have to get to know your kids.....especially by giving them the stink eye for disturbing my sleep...or my thinking time. Yes, too many people assume that because they are paying for a room, their children can do anything. In my view, I am paying for a room, too, and that means I am entitled to my quiet enjoyment of said room and my meals, thank you.

I have not been above calling the the parents or whoever is in loco parentis, the desk clerk, the manager, or writing the board of directors. I am also not averse to scaring the little darlings if it can be done, or pointing out that if they damange the premises or me I can and will sue their parents.

As for the child screaming in the supermarket, my favourite is walking over with a look of concern and asking, "Are you bleeding? Where are you hurt? Did you break something?" "no." "Then why are you screaming? I thought you were desperately injured, at least!" It often works......and usually cracks up their parents.

[NMMNG]

81. My wife and I love you

In a purely platonic way, of course. :hi:

[Odin2005]

103. LOL, I love kids like your son.

Reminds me of a good friend from when I was little.

[awoke_in_2003]

112. you have to keep an eyeball...

on the smart, quiet ones (I know, I was one :) )

[PDJane]

122. Oh, know.........

I was one of those kids, too, and so were my brothers. However, he still managed to surprise me, occasionally.
For instance, he was the teenager who had to research the pro-abortion side of the question and debate it. He won, by the way...he spent his entire time on the podium playing with a coat hanger! (Kid has a devious mind, you know.)

And yes, his time at home was wonderful...he's now a 38-year-old who is Director of New Technology with a company he and a friend started. He informs me that the good part of having part of his own company is being able to choose which part of the job roster he takes!

It has been a lot of fun.

[Sapphocrat]

133. Amen, amen, and amen... and...

...your "babysitters" remark strikes a chord. As short a story as I can make it (and we all know how verbose I am), some research I'm doing on kids susceptible to predatory adults keeps coming back to the same theme: The most vulnerable kids seem to have parents who just don't involve themselves in their children's lives, and think dropping Junior off at soccer practice, or scout meetings, or whatever is being involved, when these activities -- as enriching as they may be -- are often just glorified babysitting services (whether the parents realize it or not), and never a substitute for regular, genuine connections between parents and children.

Kids crave a real connection with their parents, no matter how loath they would be to admit it.

I love your "concern" response to screaming children in supermarkets -- I'm going to remember that, and use it! :D

P.S. I once did scare the bejeebus out of two children, a boy of about six and a girl of about nine, who were throwing rocks at cars on a busy residential street late one afternoon during my daily commute home.

One of them nailed my car with a rock. I swung a quick U, pulled over, got out, and strode up behind them as they were walking away, surprised the bloody hell out of them and read them the riot act.

After impressing upon them the danger of what they were doing -- e.g., they could throw a surprised driver for a loop and into the path of oncoming traffic, and how would they like to live the rest of their lives knowing they were responsible for killing some nice little old lady who could have been their grandmother? -- I told them I was going to call their parents, the police, etc., if I ever saw them on that street again, much less throwing rocks.

(While I am not a parent, I think I knew just the right words to use to instill the Fear-O'-God into them, as they were both wearing Catholic-school uniforms. LOL)

These 20something years later, I almost feel bad for scaring them so badly -- the boy was in tears, and the girl was begging me not to call anyone -- but then I think: they probably never did anything like that again.

I wouldn't dare do any such thing now -- I'd be terrified of being sued by their parents for scarring their little preciouses' psyches for life.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

79. We stayed in the same hotel as some soccer league one time...

It was bad enough that the hotel's idea of a non-smoking room was to spritz Febreeze around before the guests got there. The kids kept the elevators tied up constantly with their games, and I found broken glass in one of the stairwells. But the chaperones were the worst of all, sitting out in the fucking hallway til 3fuckingAM yakking their fucking heads off.

A polite, "Excuse me, but we're trying to sleep...could you please keep it down?" worked for about 5 minutes, then they whooped it up again.

[SoCalDem]

91. I'm sorry... Was this a place in San Luis Obispo?

:)

We were a bit boisterous when our boys won:)

[GoddessOfGuinness]

125. No, Suburban Cleveland, OH

In a Hilton, no less.

[Missy Vixen]

84. I hope you talked to the hotel manager

Even better would have been calling the cops.

You have as much right to quiet enjoyment of your weekend away as the shriekers do to ruin everyone else's fun. As for their parents, may the fleas of a thousand camels infest wherever it's the most painful and annoying.

If adults make that kind of noise in a hotel, they're removed. Quickly. I fail to understand why children are allowed to do so.

I hope your next mini-vacation is on the hotel in question. It's the least they should offer.

[RandomThoughts]

89. What if your fun was unjustly ruined.

And they did not know they were doing that to millions of people by thinking they are above laws, or should be in some power.

What if to stop someone from ruining the fun of maybe even billions, a few have to be stopped from being pricks.



Side note, I am still due beer and travel money and many good experiences.


Does that mean I have an ax to grind, probably not, but I might have an ax or two.

The Shining.

[Sapphocrat]

96. ...

:rofl:

The sign outside this hotel (I swear on my father's grave!) says:

WELCOME

COME STAY WITH US

We cannot drive up/to/past it without intoning, in unison:

"Come stay with us, Danny... forever... and ever..."

[RandomThoughts]

97. I like to move around a bit.

So I would be glad to stay in many places, but not one place forever, that would not make sense.

But visits to many places are fun :)

However the beer and travel money is still an issue, and many good experiences, still have to have that corrected, and someone will be sending that money. :D


To be completely honest, how could anyone be expected to decide on staying in one place for eternity, does not make sense. Especially somewhere they have never seen before. I think it is best to follow ideals and not worry where you will end up.




Although if they got beer, I would stop by and stay awhile. :D

[Sapphocrat]

99. RT, you think too hard.

Much, much too hard. LOL

Not that there's anything wrong with that, but... :D

[RandomThoughts]

100. If you are given a problem with no easy answers.

You spend many hours thinking on it.

The more you think, the more you have to actually get deeper and deeper into how things might be.


Really, the issue I was working on 10 years ago seemed impossible, although I have disproved the road blocks that tried to say it was impossible. Now all that has to happen is for the proper secondary actions to occur. Many primaries have been seen, so progress has been made.

But sometimes even with a bridge the secondaries don't occur, so you have to go and rethink it all again and find some other view on reality to try and fit into the new data to again unfold and check for secondaries.


In other words, I should have had the beer and travel money, and many good experiences years ago, and as time goes by, both the difficulty goes up by added debt, hence need for more thought,because of more consequence from inaction to correct, and that means more secondaries of various effects, and more thoughts on effect and best intents.

So yea, so would you.

But they will pay, and things will be corrected.


Side note: less thought is just build a paradox, it removes anything in the way, since paradoxes can not hold, so just keep building them till nothing is left, or things are corrected.

[Sapphocrat]

134. I've decided I love your posts, RT.

They're like poetry on 'shrooms.

Which is a compliment, btw -- you amuse and delight me... much like poetry on 'shrooms. :)

[aikoaiko]

102. "completely submerged, if we wanted to" cue music-- boom, chicka, wow, wow.

nice! :evilgrin:

[Sapphocrat]

135. Well, neither of us is very tall. LOL

But, yes... heaven. :)

[Dappleganger]

104. There's a small motel in VA we stay at on our way

to different places up north, specifically because they are so militant about QUIET. It is even dog-friendly but they still demand QUIET.

We have four kids who know how to behave and we can actually keep all of us in one room (2 on two beds, one on the couch and one on a cot with room left over for dogs). We always stay the farthest out in the wing next to the door on the ground floor, for walking the dogs. I so much appreciate how the management is very up front about being quiet and I've heard they have kicked folks out for being noisy. They also have a strong clientele who return each year because of it, too!

[Sapphocrat]

136. First, I love you and I love your kids.

Second, I love those motel owners.

We spent our honeymoon at Holly's Place at Lake Tahoe, which is very popular for many reasons -- gorgeous, very comfortable and reasonably-priced individual cabins, truly welcoming hosts who make you feel like family, a casual but real community feel (if you want to take advantage of it, fine, and if not, no biggie), and all under towering pines, not far from the lake -- and foremost for doggie lovers, extremely dog-friendly.

We're not dog people (we don't hate 'em -- we just love cats), so we were a bit iffy about the all-dogs-all-the-time situation, but caved and tried it anyway.

End result: We couldn't have been happier with our choice. The owners' pups were well-behaved, and the guests with dogs were very conscious of keeping their "kids" from going nuts (even though every dog on the place was unleashed, and free to roam).

Getting way OT here, but I'll leave it at: If you're ever out our way, and want a truly family- and dog-friendly place amidst the sheer heaven that is Lake Tahoe, hit that link above and keep it in mind.

[LibertyLover]

107. Your post brought back old memories of a long-ago motel stay

My best friend and I took her two kids plus one of their friends to Richmond, VA for a karate tournament and then were going on to Williamsburgh and Washington DC for sightseeing. The motel in Richmond was one of the nicer chains and was the tournament motel. You would have never known it. All the tournament kids staying there were very well behaved. Not however were the contingent of Loyal Order of Moose that showed up Friday afternoon for a weekend convocation. Let's just say that yes, alcohol was involved. These "adults" made so much noise in the corridors, the public areas of the motel and their rooms that the police were called on several occasions. The motel had an entire building that was non-smoking, which is where we were due to the kids' asthma. So what did the Moose who were in that building do - smoked of course. It got so bad that we put wet towels under the door and over it to try and keep out the smoke. It helped but not enough. We sent one of the boys, Chad, who were 13 at the time, to the lobby to complain. As he passed the outdoor swimming pool he noticed a bunch of drunk Moose pulling something out of the ground. It was one of the sprinkler heads. When it was ripped up, the water gushed out. Chad went to the main desk, lodged our complaint and then just as he was leaving, asked in a polite voice why the fountain by the pool hadn't been turned on before as it was very nice. Oh, the desk clerk said, there is no fountain at the pool. Chad informed him that they had one now and perhaps the clerk would like to check. The clerk ran over to the window, and as Chad tells the story, turned pale and immediately called the janitor on duty to do something. The next morning we were informed that our previous night's stay would be gratis due to the "disturbances" we had experienced. The next night the Moose were pretty quiet. I'm guessing most of their alcohol supply had been depleted.

[Sapphocrat]

137. I read your post aloud to my wife...

...and both of us were seriously LOLing. What a great kid Chad is! ROFL!

[LibertyLover]

150. I love that kid and his mouth!

Well, he's no longer a kid of course. He's sheriff's deputy down in Lee County, Florida, married and a father. But he has the most amazing way of telling a story. About 12 years ago, my best friend's mother died. My mom and I went down to Florida for her funeral and at the restaurant after the ceremony, Chad kept us in stitches with his stories. My friend's father finally said something about how odd it was to think that we had just buried his wife and here he was laughing. But he figured that she would have approved. Of course, I'm slightly biased as Chad is one of my 3 godchildren

[pacalo]

110. Wonderfully expressed. K&R!

[Sapphocrat]

138. Muchas gracias. :) n/t

[-..__...]

111. It would be a more pleasant and relaxing stay having Motley Crue...

and Ozzy Osbourne as guests rather than familys with multiple children and/or youth organizations.

[awoke_in_2003]

113. Tasers are your friends...

only kidding (maybe :) )

[Kalyke]

114. There are plenty of wild hellions who are over 21.

To infer that only teenagers do these things makes me wonder if you've never been within 20 miles of a college campus.

[REP]

127. She didn't "infer" - nor did she imply such a thing

You inferred it, though there was no such implication in her post.

In case I am being too subtle, your usage of "infer" was incorrect.

[Sapphocrat]

141. Just...

:)

[Sapphocrat]

139. Au contraire.

But rather than bore you with endless stories of my experiences with ill-mannered young adults (of which I have many), I'll just clarify:

My issue isn't with children, but with parents who are present, and witness to the discomfort their offspring cause others, and simply do not care.

And as REP notes, it's "imply," not "infer" -- and I did not imply any such thing.

[KamaAina]

119. Sapph! How the heck you been?

Still in the South Bay? So am I, for about a year now. :hi:

[Sapphocrat]

140. Hiya, darlin'!

Great to see you!

Been OK, and still very much rooted here, 'though I'd rather be on another, friendlier planet, like Massachusetts!

We should meet up one of these days. :)

[Carni]

120. LMAO My 15 Year old just got a job as a tour guide

At a local attraction on weekends...kid's under 8 get in free, so a lot of parents bring their children and then let them scream and carry on and run around etc.

My daughter keeps coming home with these horror stories about obnoxious children and obnoxious parents running amuck and
I have to laugh because for years all I heard was:

"why do you care if I do X Y or Z? So and so and so and so's parents don't act like YOU they let their kids do (insert whatever obnoxious public activity it is here)"

Ah yes, saying SEE I TOLD YOU SO is soooooo sweet! LOL!

On a serious note I do feel bad for her when I hear how obnoxious some of these people let their kids act.

[Sapphocrat]

142. Oh, lordy, do I hear that!

Not as a parent, but as one who, at the tender age of 16, slaved for $2.90 an hour at the then-Marriott's Great America, with a cheerful smile plastered on my face no matter what our "guests" or their lovely children did -- and experienced a sudden revelation about my mother's long-ago admonitions to "behave." LOL

That makes me feel bad for your daughter, too -- but in retrospect of my own experience, it's good for her: as she grows older, she'll realize Mama and/or Papa weren't so off-base (and un-cool) as they once seemed. :)

[Carni]

148. Yep! That's what I'm thinking!

We've never been particularly strict (much the contrary) but we have been a pain about manners and being considerate to others over the years and it wasn't always received too well lol NOW she finally understands why!

[K8-EEE]

123. For me last weekend it was college aged hellions

In the Chamanade Hotel at Santa Cruz, CA. Really i would be SO UNCOMFORTABLE having loud parties blasting music etc, knowing people all around me are trying to sleep!! How can people be so inconsiderate? It was a beautiful night and the place had lots of outside space away from the rooms to be loud in. I WOULD NEVER!!

With small children it's the fault of the parents for not containing them but sadly they will grow up into teen and 20-something hellions with no manners. Manners are learned, and too many people are not taught.

[Sapphocrat]

143. It's a mystery to me, really.

These parents I mention were around the ages of my wife and myself (early 40s to close to 50), which makes me think they were raised on, if not "Leave It to Beaver," then at least "The Brady Bunch," and who-knows-how-many Proper Way to Live "educational" films...

As I said in the OP, I wasn't a perfect child, but "I WOULD NEVER!!" either -- as a kid, or as a young adult.

Maybe some of these folks are still rebelling against the expectations placed on them as children, so they vow to put no restrictions on their own kids...?

I don't know what it's like to be a parent, but I always figured I'd be extremely loving but very strict. I just can't imagine letting my kids run wild at the expense of anyone else's peace and quiet -- and then being surprised that their behavior hadn't changed after I sent them to college.

[ThatsMyBarack]

130. Been there, done that.

I've encountered kids' sports teams and their parents at various hotels I've stayed at for skating competitions. I've dealt with the kid and teen hellions running and screaming up and down the halls at all hours of the night. I've also seen parents drinking beer and talking in the halls after they have put their children to bed.

[Sapphocrat]

144. One of the worst "team" experiences I ever had...

...was when I made the mistake of going to a local supermarket when some world soccer championship was being played at Stanford U. The players were young adults, and, while I'm sure the excitement of the match and of being in a new place were making them crazy, I had it after five minutes of their obnoxious rowdiness.

Parents who misbehave: much easier to deal with (or not deal with, directly), AFAIC -- if the front desk won't do anything, the cops certainly will.

[JCMach1]

146. Sorry for the disruption, but I still have to say my WORST experiences

in hotels and restaurants did not involve children.

It was always adults screwing it up for everyone.

In fact, try explaining to a 6 year old why she was awakened at 3 AM to shouts of "Yeehaw!!!" ( I am not kidding) and "F*$k me harder" as there is a constant thump against your wall from a headboard!

It gets worse... on TWO SIDES!

But I digress...

But seriously, if you want to avoid children, just book for a place that would be much less likely to have them. I don't know... maybe a mid-priced bed and breakfast with a nice jacuzzi somewhere.

[Sapphocrat]

151. By the time they're grown up, they're hopeless...

...but I feel like I have more control over the situation with adults -- if asking them nicely to tone it down doesn't work, next we go to management, then, if necessary, the cops.

It's not that we're trying to avoid children; we'd like to avoid the adults who have no consideration for others, and don't care if their little darlings run amok.

I don't even blame the kids all that much -- they're just the product of lazy parenting -- and I feel kind of sorry for them, because someday they'll grow up, be called out on their boorish behavior, and wonder why their parents never taught them a little basic courtesy.

P.S. I hate adults who think they have to share their orgasmic glee with the rest of the world. I've been known to return the favor by slamming the headboard into the wall and making animal noises until they stop doing the same. It does tend to throw a couple off their, uh, rhythm.

[JCMach1]

161. I still get annoyed about the loud, drunken mixed group at a restaurant

on Valentine's day a couple of years back. My wife and I had reservations for over a month at The Yearling (a nice place in North Florida). We knew it would be busy, hence the reservations. We arrive and wait (with reservations) for almost two hours on a work night. When we actually get the table there is a group of about 8 obnoxious Yuppy types (couples) who absolutely shlonkered. That's ok, fine... drunk is your own business. However, we are seated near their table and continuously kept up a loud drunken screech along with accompanying behavior.

We notified the management, but it was pretty useless on such a crowded night. They wouldn't shut up and they couldn't move us (no seats). About half-way through the meal itself another table opened and they did move us.

The food was great, but the meal was completely ruined by the idiots.

Like I said... I have never had a child (including my own) ruin my sleep in a hotel, or a meal at a restaurant. Adults however can be a pain in the ...

[AuntPatsy]

149. wow just wow, perhaps many would be happier with Kid Free Zoning laws..

perhaps next time it would be better to find a hotel that caters to the adult crowd but just so you realize..not all adults are all that quiet and caring of others so that might not be the best idea either, perhaps a cabin deep in the woods but watch out for the wild life, sometimes they can be far noisier...

Not being rude about your experience but kind of shocked seeing so many such threads on DU lately...kids are kids and the idea of "kids being seen and not heard" is a little much to take in...so archaic..

[Sapphocrat]

152. Maybe you're seeing so many threads...

...because it really is that prevalent an annoyance, and people are just sick and tired of putting up with bad behavior that could be easily remedied by a parent who actually parents.

And, no, I never said children should be seen and not heard -- just thoughtful and courteous around other people. Is that too much to ask?

[walldude]

155. I never see any threads about the parents who

who on a daily basis make sure their kids are courteous and nice. I run into hundreds of them every day of the week. Wonderful kids and nice parents. Problem is no one ever posts about them. You always hear about the odd jackass parent and kid.

Somehow I believe if people posted a thread every time a kid did something nice and courteous they would outnumber these kid bashing threads 100 to 1.

[NMMNG]

158. Actually,

The courteous, well-behaved kids (or the ones being well-taught) are the ones who stand out.

There was the one in a drug store who wasn't paying attention to where he was going. He crossed into my path and his father immediately told him to "say excuse me" any time he went in front of somebody else. The boy stopped and said "excuse me" to me. I praised him for being such a gentleman.

A few weeks ago I was browsing in the grocery store. A little boy who was a foot or two in front of me suddenly turned and started to run toward his mother, bumping into me in the process. His mother told him he needed to watch where he was going and apologized to me. I thanked her and told her no harm was done, and let her know that I understood the boy probably didn't realize I'd come up behind him while he was standing there.

Just last night I was in a store and saw two children standing calmly and quietly as their father checked out. I almost wanted to congratulate them and their father because they were so well-behaved.







It's not children in general that are a problem. Children who are crying or making a fuss over a real problem (pain, hunger, fear, etc) aren't the problem. It's not even children who occasionally misbehave that are the problem. Children will be children, and they need to learn. They make mistakes, they misbehave, and they need to be taught what's appropriate and what's not.

The problem is children who think the entire world is their playground, and who have no boundaries/manners whatsoever. They run through store aisles (or race on their scooters, ram shopping carts into things, etc). They scream and shout, make messes of things and generally behave like wild animals. They treat every restaurant like it's a Chuck-E-Cheese. They have no qualms about violating the private property of others. They don't care who they disturb or harm.

It's also parents who don't take any time or expend any effort to teach their children appropriate public behavior. These parents don't seem to care who is bothered by the behavior of their little darlings because said behavior doesn't bother them (or they're used to tuning it out). Unfortunately they seem to be in the majority these days.

[walldude]

159. Oh come on.. if it's the "good" kids that stand out there would

be threads about them... But no, only threads about the bad kids. And those threads seem to enjoy generally bashing all parents and kids. Just like this one.

[Sapphocrat]

160. Oh, come on yourself.

In at least three posts, you've taken this to the extreme. You know perfectly well no one is "bashing all parents and kids."

Has it occurred to you there's no need to write about all the genuinely good kids out there because good behavior is supposed to be the norm? I didn't expect a medal for my good behavior as a kid, my parents didn't expect to see their names in the newspaper every time one of their kids said "Please," Thank you," or "Excuse me," and neither should anyone else.

If a kid rescues a cat from a tree and refuses the reward money, yeah, that's remarkable. But simply acting like a civilized human being who understands that this planet we share will be much a more pleasant place for everyone if we all make an effort to treat one another, friend and stranger alike, with simple respect shouldn't be anything to crow about -- it's merely the way people should act. All people. And since kids don't pop out of the womb with Emily Post's Guide to Etiquette already programmed into their brains, it's up to their parents to show them the way.

To make excuses for boorish behavior and get angry with everyone but the parents, and to expect the rest of us to ignore bad behavior as if we were nothing more than background extras undeserving of any consideration, is a complete mystery to me. Are "traditional" nuclear-family units held to a lower standard of behavior than I am? Am I not worthy of the same consideration they are?

Would you defend me and call the families we endured this weekend "gay bashers" if I held a dance party in my room, and they complained that we kept their kids awake and ruined the peace and quiet of their weekend?

I should hope not. I'm an adult, and I moderate my behavior in consideration of others. Why then, should I not be allowed to hold other adults responsible for moderating the behavior of their children?

Finally, yes, of course it's the "bad kids" (your words; I say lazy parents are the real problem) who get written up. Should we give a trophy to every one of the millions of schoolchildren who file through museums without incident every year -- and ignore the 12-year-old who defaced a Frankenthaler painting by sticking his chewed gum on it?

If we ignore bad behavior -- which is (or should be) the exception, not the norm -- how do you ever expect to correct it?

If you're a parent whose kids are nice, polite and well-mannered most of the time, congratulations -- but don't expect anyone to throw you (or them) a ticker-tape parade simply for behaving the way everyone should: with a little common courtesy, some basic manners, and a modicum of respect for others.

Don't you deserve, and expect, the same courtesy extended toward you -- and toward your kids? I hope you do -- and if you don't get it, I'd expect you to be pissed.

[JCMach1]

162. I am not directly referring to the OP, but as a parent I also noticed a lot of intolerance of Adults

even with perfectly behaved children. I think this is especially true in Florida where every day is Seniorfest.

If you are a parent, I am sure you know what I am talking about.

Not matter how good your children are, you will get the evil eye, the rude comments and sometimes outright assholery from folks who think that kids should be banned from public life.

My kids are older now, but that kind of anti-kid behavior still pisses me off royally.

[Sapphocrat]

163. Now, that's just wrong.

I don't notice it because I'm not a parent, but I wouldn't dream of shooting the stinkeye at anyone just for having kids out and about. I like seeing kids, and I'm often highly amused eavesdropping on their observations. I'll even ask some kid in a store for his/her opinion when I can't decide what video game I want -- I figure they know better than I do what's cool and what's lame.

(Yes, I admit: We also coo at cute babies in restaurants, and even tell their moms how attractive they are -- the babies, not the moms! -- so they know we're just admiring the kid, and don't think we're some sort of pervert kidnappers or something.)

My take is to treat kids like little adults (with obvious accommodations), because I remember how much I loved being treated like a real person with a working brain when I was a kid. Seems to work; I haven't met a kid yet who didn't feel validated and important. (And then I can't shake the kid, who's found a new BFF. LOL)

Yeah, maybe the problem lies with Florida -- which sounds very much like a larger version of Palm Springs. Only difference is, in P.S., the snowbirds in their ill-fitting polyester Hawaiian shirts hate everyone under 70. Or maybe they just hate everyone.

[JCMach1]

164. Old Coot Syndrome, but not alway the coots...

People can be really ugly. On a few particular occasions, I can remember hearing overtly loud rude comments about our children. One time my wife was a fingernail from walking over and slugging some biddy (wasn't an old biddy in that case, just obnoxious).

No children are 'perfect' angels of course. We would always try to practice courtesy. On the few occasions when there would be some misbehavior on the part of are kids, we would either discipline or take them outside or even the car until they calmed down.

They would always get just a bit more slack if it was a 'family' restaurant.

My daughters were always good about these things with just some minor exceptions here and there.

Another issue is perfectly fine parents with hyper children... it does happen and unfortunately those little critters (and yes I have a nephew who falls in that category) are difficult to keep hold of...

[littlewolf]

153. I understand .... Did the hotel do anything?

We were at a hotel and it sounded like there was a no holds barred wrestling match going on upstairs ...
called the front desk twice .... the next morning we were only charged half price ... given a voucher for half off
our next stay at any of that chain's hotels ... given a goodie bag with beach stuff (sunscreen etc all)
and told the people involved were removed from the hotel property .... it was a couples kids who were given a
room to themselves by their parents .... so kids and parents kick out ...

[DailyGrind51]

157. Do we need to ask why the American birthrate is declining?

Who wants to put up with this nonsense?