For the Unemployed Over 50, Fears of Never Working Again

[NeoConsSuck]

Source: NY Times

VASHON ISLAND, Wash. — Patricia Reid is not in her 70s, an age when many Americans continue to work. She is not even in her 60s. She is just 57.

But four years after losing her job she cannot, in her darkest moments, escape a nagging thought: she may never work again.

College educated, with a degree in business administration, she is experienced, having worked for two decades as an internal auditor and analyst at Boeing before losing that job.

But that does not seem to matter, not for her and not for a growing number of people in their 50s and 60s who desperately want or need to work to pay for retirement and who are starting to worry that they may be discarded from the work force — forever.


Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/20/business/economy/20older.html?_r=1&hp

[DiverDave]

1. Thank God I got my CDL

I can drive until they tell me I cant.
I HATE to see these 70 year olds still driving.
Some, I know, do it to get out of the house.
But the majority need the money.
I dont have any savings, my wife just landed a part time gig...at 8.50 an hour.
Half of her pay from before.
We have no health insurence, the kids are on chip, which chaps my behind.
I should be able to provide, but cant.
I am worried, and I know there are folks worse off then us, but cold comfort.

I will keep plugging away, thats all I can do.

Course when I win the lotto...

[4dsc]

5. a whole new class of cdl drivers are taking to the road

I have noticed a lot more women and minorities taking to the road over the past couple of years.

[pattmarty]

16. In the 60's & 70's MOST truck lines were union (Teamsters)..........

........Today, there are only a handful. You can still make a "decent" living (you're not gonna get rich), but it's not the same as 30 yrs ago. I worked for over 30 yrs in the industry, mostly for union companies but occasionally non-union too. I don't want to sound "aloof" or like I am bragging, but I retired at 54 with $3200 per month pension (NO health insurance though). You definitely won't get rich off that or be living in the Hamptons, but you also won't starve and be forced to eat cat food either. I consider myself one of the very fortunate ones as I have 4 HS dropout sons (42, 37, 36, and 32) and two of them have been out of work for quite some time with little hope of getting anything soon and probably paying in the $9.00hr range. It is a fucking shame what has happened to unions in this country since WWII.




Edit to change 3 sons to 4. Duh, I must be getting old.

[lumberjack_jeff]

66. And big trucking companies are setting up a sharecropper system for them.

They promise big salaries to "independent" owner-operators, who are paid by the mile but are dispatched by the company they can sit for weeks in some remote truck stop waiting for a load that never materializes, but are still on the hook for the truck payment, insurance, fuel, etc.

It's happened to three friends in the last year.

[melm00se]

2. interesting numbers

the 55+ age group has the lowest unemployment numbers of the entire population

http://www.deptofnumbers.com/unemployment/demographics/

but also the largest year/year increase of 0.5%

[Mark D.]

53. A Great Idea

I've heard floated on Common Dreams and in other liberal areas. Incredibly simple.
Like Single Payer, it would be a slam dunk fix, so of course, it will not happen.

Drop retirement to age 60, with full benefits for all (not staggered over age).
Double those retirement benefits. All paid for by eliminating income caps. All
income is taxed at the same rate. Social Security will be insolvent 100 years.

What else will happen? Double benefits at only age 60? Are you kidding. Listen...
Hear that? The 'giant sucking sound' of people leaving the workforce. In just six
months, maybe less, there will be millions of job openings. Unemployment? 2 - 3%.

Many problems solved at once, unemployment, loss of pensions, SS insolvency. Plus,
those hired will do what with that income? What will the newly retired do? Spend.
You want to see a stimulus? We'll pay off the debt very quickly. Yes, it'd work.

That's why you'll never see it. Hard workers looking to retire will be called as
'lazy' by fat lazy bastards like Rush Limbaugh. Asking for a fair 'flat rate' for
SS will be called 'socialism' (which is absurd, it's just fairness). Sad but true.

[county worker]

70. It took me 30 years experience to get my present job.

If you don't have experience you have to have a masters in accounting or business.

If I retire it will open a position for someone with a masters degree but most unemployed don't qualify for my job.

The idea that if all us old farts retire younger people can have our jobs is not really accurate.

[xchrom]

3. This won't be the last recession we will see --

So they retirement age but slowly more older workers
Get laid off -- oy, very scary.

[Fumesucker]

4. I don't expect to work for anyone else again..

Been out of work for over two years, I've had exactly three interviews in all that time.

Trying to start a micro manufacturing business but it's a long hard slog and success is by no means assured.

[NJCher]

17. that's an excellent idea

I would do it myself if I were out of work (micro-mfr).

On the brighter side, I know someone who is 70-years old and who told me he was in the market for a job. I almost laughed in his face but because I love and dearly respect this person, I refrained.

He got a job. Not only did he get a job, he got two jobs offered to him at the same time. On one job he interviewed for, he competed with a 31-year old woman with a good track record and a 45-year old guy. The person with whom he interviewed was older, however, probably in her late 50s.

Actually, one wasn't a job. It was a six-month contract. If he does well, which I know he will, he will get his contract extended for three years.

BTW, this person was put out of work two years ago because of the recession. During that time, he worked independently. He didn't make much but he did maintain visibility in his industry, which is a big part of how he got these two offers.

I just wanted to put this out there because it can happen. Not easy but it can happen.


Cher


and p.s. I have another friend who is 60 and who received two job offers this last week. She, too, is highly skilled and has a good reputation in her field.

[DCBob]

30. What's micro-manufacturing?

Sounds intriguing. What kind of things are you thinking of manufacturing?

[SteveM]

48. I hear ya. 62, here, and re-cycle restaurant stuff for a meal ticket...

Not had a paying job in over 4 years, and don't expect another. In a way, I feel lucky that I almost made it out of my 50s before being retired, whether I like it or not. I'll have to pull SS next year when I'm 63 -- I have no choice.

Some folks point to the low unemployment rate among those in their 50s. Folks in that group find that the job is becoming a grind: extra work, early a.m. hours, taking over the jobs of FUs who are younger -- all pressure to make them retire. A friend of mine says that the sea of "contract" labor is rising all around her. She still has to support kids and grand-kids and knows full-well she'll never get another job should she quit.

I heard one young worker complain that he and his friends can't get a job because the older workers won't quit. Well, at my age, I wouldn't quit a job either -- if I could find one.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

6. No surprise for me those of us in the late baby boom

have been screwed in the shadows for our whole lives....


school programs... oh, sorry, we offered that LAST year, not enough students THIS year

war.... yep, had to go, but no full GI Bill or VA for you

recession.... first hired, first gone

and now deprecession.... oh, you been around too long... so long

[LiberalLoner]

11. God, isn't that the truth? Born in '61....n/t

[zenprole]

34. Age = Class

Yes, the Baby Boomers have trashed the demographic landscape like hungry locusts. And as dates of birth march forward from that generation, life options decrease dramatically. Born in '61 you've seen some scarcity. I'm born in '68 and have seen even more, but both our perspectives pale next to someone born in '88 or '08.

The lack of generational justice is another part of the mass delusion that is America.

[raccoon]

35. Those born in the 1930's had better life options than the boomers

because they were such a small generation.

And the boomer's parents, my mother's generation, had the good fortune to be young adults in the Empire's glory days (1950's, 1960's).

Life ain't fair. If I had my druthers I'd druther have been born in the 1930's. Of course the downside of that would be that I'd be even older than I am now.

[harmonicon]

45. maybe, maybe not

My dad, born in the 30's, was forced into retirement a few years earlier than he'd have liked. He did some private consulting work, but no way was another company going to hire on a 64 year old. Then the exact same thing happened to my mother two years ago; she lost her job and has been having a hell of a time finding another one. Now she's working - sometimes part time - through an agency who are obviously paid more for her work than she is, but she gets no job security. She's had to push her retirement plans back, and now my parents have to reassess all of their options about that. It just goads me that they worked so hard their entire lives only to get fucked at the point when they should be reaping the benefits from all of those years of work. (this is leaving out how screwed they were by losing value in their 401k's when the market tanked in the last decade).

[Gaedel]

64. 1930s were the "empty years"

There weren't very many of us born in those years.

Downside of that was the 1950s draft.

It wasn't a question of whether or not you would go into the armed forces. The question was how and when you would go into the armed forces.

A college deferment was just that. You were deferred from the draft while you were in college. After college, in you went.

When the boomers came along, there were so many that even with the increased draft calls in Vietnam, a much smaller percentage of them served.

With us, it was like Universal Military Service.

[Art_from_Ark]

84. Out of curiosity, what war did late baby boomers have to go to?

No one born in 1955 or later had to go to a war, unless they volunteered for the military. But if you were a male born earlier, it would have sucked if your number had come up.

[PSzymeczek]

93. The guys born in 1953

were the last ones subject to the draft lottery.

[Art_from_Ark]

98. I had thought that 1954 was a sort of transitional year

since they were still sending guys to Vietnam through most of '72. But I checked the lottery draft list and you're right, they weren't drafting 18-year-olds, so '53 was the last birth year that was subject to the draft lottery.

[shanti]

100. right

my ex was born in 53 but had a high draft number, so it wasn't an issue. he did end up joining the military later tho.

[Altoid_Cyclist]

7. I received this email today and by coincidence, it pertains to this OP.

I'm only using part of the message, but it is a perfect example of what many people in their 50's are experiencing. BTW, this is from a woman who is my age 54.



"As far as the job thing goes, I have resorted to applying for jobs in the local mall which is kind of sad, because I have a degree, but there is absolutely nothing out there in my field. I don't know if I mentioned it before, but my husband is unemployed, too. It's kind of sad that we may have to go out of the area, or even out of state for him to find a job, because both of his parents are still alive, but his mother is diabetic, in a wheel chair, and legally blind. His father had a stroke a few years ago and doesn't have the use of his left side. Also, my mother is 94 years old and in a nursing home, so we both have mixed feelings about leaving the area. Not to mention the fact that both of his brothers, and my brother and sister are both in this area, but you have to do what you have to do, I guess."



I was lucky enough to be sick enough to retire on SS Disability, but how many Americans are stuck in exactly the same predicament through no fault of their own?

World Superpower....... I don't think so.

[iamjoy]

8. But Let's Raise the Retirement Age

Yes, lots of Americans over 50 out of work, but let's raise the retirement age to "save" Social Security. Let's not have a public option or allow those 55+ to buy into Medicare early to help provide health insurance to those who statistically are likely need to health care coverage the most.

Sounds great to me.

:eyes:

[truedelphi]

79. Had we gotten ourselves Universal Single Payer HC Reform,

Employers would be much more willing to hire people over fifty.

But the employers compare the huge premiums they pay on us older workers, and realize that it doesn't make business sense to hire someone who comes with such a hefty, government
mandated payout.

[raccoon]

106. +1000. nt

[dkf]

9. Jobs jobs jobs...

[Action]

10. Question For 50 + Workers

I am lucky enough at this point in time to still have my job. As we all know that could end at any time. I hope I can hang in here until I'm 66.

I do have a question for all those Baby Boomers who are over 50 and not able to find work:

How many of you voted for the repubs since the 1980s? If you voted for the repubs all those years (Reagan forward) you voted for exactly what we have now. Folks like me tried to warn you, but you bought into the "me, me, me" greed and demonizing those who are in need & now we are seeing where that has taken us.

Many Baby Boomers I know are taking early Social Security (at 62), because they have no jobs and no choice.

So vote for the repubs to run it all in 2010. They are sure to help (NOT!!!)

[MannyGoldstein]

12. If you voted for the Democrats, you also voted for this

The other party of "free" trade and deregulation.

And the President who appointed a commission to slash Social Security... what party affiliation does he claim?

[Historic NY]

23. When did he say he was slashing SS..........when?????? You sound like a propagandist.

The commission had nothing to do with slashing SS, he even mentioned having one when he was campaigning.

http://www.ontheissues.org/economic/barack_obama_social_security.htm

http://seniorliving.about.com/od/socialsecurity101/a/obama-social-security-budget-2010-.htm

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2010/08/obama-social-security-is-not-in-crisis/61690/

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/114821-obama-social-security-not-in-crisis

then again if your constantly reading firedoglake the world of social security ended.

[NorthCarolina]

26. Well, I guess we'll find out in December who is right, and who is wrong.

If FDL turns out to be correct, what will your reaction be then? Just curious.

[JDPriestly]

57. Look at the make-up of the deficit reduction or Cat-Food committee.

It is rigged to insure the committee has the votes to start ending Social Security. It's a crime. Social Security has been one of the reasons our society has been so stable from a social point of view since the 1930s.

It's just criminal and stupid to even think about curtailing or doing away with it.

[subterranean]

90. It's just like what happened with health care reform.

The debate was largely shaped by the Senate Finance Committee, half of whom were Republicans who were openly opposed to health care reform. It was rigged to ensure that no ideas that might threaten the profits of the insurance industry would be given serious consideration.

[Riley133]

27. The majority in the commission. NFT

[NikRik]

14. if you are not rich ,voting repug a dumb move

Iam 53 years old and been out of work for almost two years now , the despair and depression and lack of self esteem has set in . I worked always since 18 years old and even B/4 that as a dish washer in a resturant. For most of my work was in retail sales high end Jewelry Sales. However when the economy is going or has gone south one of the first things people stop buying is expensive jewelry. I also has a job for 17 years making custome fit slip covers for furniture! That was a big bis at one time however now you would be hard pressed to find a company that still makes them the way I did by pin fitting material directly onto furniture. Anyway Iam most definitly feeling like one of the unemployable. Most applications for work you fill out online, never a chance to shake a hand of a possible employer , your app just gets thrown in a pile with the all the other apps ,getting to a interview is like winning the lotto. Odds are not good at all. I Never understood those I knew who voted repug ,unless they are multi millioniares. I want he regan/bush repugs to tell me what to do since they helped get us into this mess ?
NikRik

[jtuck004]

25. You hang in there. Your self-esteem doesn't come from your

job, it comes from you believing in yourself. And you sound like you have what it takes to keep working through this mess.

[onethatcares]

59. have you thought about micro manufacturing those slip covers?

there are folks out there that will hang on to good furniture the way it should be hung on to.

You might start off slow, but give it a year and you probably will be thinking about stepping up a notch.

I'm 59, still lucky to be employed and am seriously contemplating opening my own micro piece of the pie. My plan is to part time the first year too.

Good Luck and Peace.

[LiberalEsto]

15. I NEVER voter for a repuke nt

[tsuki]

19. I have voted Democratic my entire life. Your demonizing of the

Baby Boomers is another reason why this country is in such a mess. You know nothing about the Tyktovs, Boomers, Minis and Gen X and Y.

As for the ME, ME, ME generation look to the 80's and 90's.

[GreenEyedLefty]

21. I know lots of people who came of age in the 80s and 90s who cannot find a job

It's not for lack of trying or initiative, either. We're all in the same boat here.

[Riley133]

24. Did you really just say that out loud?

You're using your hatred of Republicans to go after your own kind and, in a roundabout way, you're blaming them? What do you say to the over 50 crowd who lost their job within the last 6 months because the work was moved to another state thanks to government incentives? Is that their fault, too?

This is as bad as getting verbally assaulted for supporting Hillary. I was just now jumping back into the water, but this isn't the party I knew, contributed to and volunteered for over the last 30 years. AND, I miss many of the intelligent posters who left during the primary debacle.

Take your hatred and use the energy to do some volunteer work or something instead of pointing the fingers at us, we who supported Dem candidates for the last 30 years and still got screwed.

I am over 50, I'm jobless (never not been able to find work before), soon to be insurance-less (for the first time in my whole life), and I'm scared. And then I see a post like yours.

Unfreakingbelievable.

[Le Taz Hot]

29. Clinton signed NAFTA.

I could list several dozen other anti-worker, anti-middle class legislation in which the Democrats were/are culpable but, instead, I'd just like to ask that people stop with the binary thinking or we really will stupid ourselves into extinction.

Edited for gooder grammar.

[glitch]

32. "people stop with the binary thinking or we really will stupid ourselves into extinction"

I second this request.

[dadzilla]

101. You have a point...

NAFTA was a disaster.

Democrats have in fact voted for a lot of things that have gone wrong. But there is a difference in that of the two parties, one is a lot more likely to repeal that mistake. One party is a lot more likely to seek energy independence. One party is moving to bring the wars to a end and one party is at least attempting to do something about the economy.

The Democratic Party is not perfect, but compared to the alternative...

[glitch]

33. Nicely divisive, both generational and intra-party. Extra points for self-righteous.

Technical note: you should broaden your brush to include "or DLC". Strawmen are more effective with the broader brush.
Rookie mistake, welcome to DU!

[uppityperson]

39. +1

[uppityperson]

38. People deserve what they vote for, but folks I know out of work vote Dem

I see the next generation as the "me, me, me" greedsters, thanks for trying to demonize we boomers over 50 though. Not.

[amandabeech]

40. I have voted for two Republicans in my entire life, and none for President.

The first was William Milliken as governor of Michigan in the '70s. He was incredibly popular and the Dem candidate sacrificial lamb was not competent enough to run the state. Milliken encouraged his former followers to vote for Kerry and Obama, and it was reported here on DU. He was a Midwest Lincoln Chaffee who went against his party. I was an active member of my college town Dem party at the time and I wasn't alone.

The other was a guy running for township treasurer. I knew both the Republican and the Democrat and the Republican was a smart, nice guy and the Dem was an idiot. I voted for the smart guy and I'd do it again. I didn't want the township books screwed up.

I've been politically active on and off since college all with the Dems so don't blame me.

[lunatica]

46. This forum is Democratic Underground in case you didn't notice

people here don't vote for Republicans. Just saying...

[OffWithTheirHeads]

102. Oh please. That argument was old when Ralph Nader was young

If you can't debate the issues try divisiveness.

[lunatica]

104. The OP isn't debating. He's wagging a finger in your face

If you don't see that then I can't help you.

[swilton]

50. I didn't vote for the repubs and I'm in that boat!

Quit trying to find scapegoats/blaming the victims for a systemic problem that the Democrats are part and parcel to.

[ladywnch]

51. I've never voted R in my life.

[freebrew]

60. 59 here, soon to be 60

my grandfather, the one that took beatings for the UAW, would never have allowed me to vote repug.
I never would have anyway. I vote a straight ticket as always.
You are demonizing the wrong group. All of the generations had repubs in them, as all generations had rich, poor, black, white, etc.

This is not a generational problem, it is the nation's problem. Our government, without a vote of the people, spent too much money and now they want SS to pay it off. NOT pay it back, as it wasn't SS fault to begin with.

The YAFers, the Young Repugs, all around during the Vietnam war, turned into the strategists that have brought this nightmare to pass.

I have been unemployed at 57 for 2 years, now at a min. wage job doing whatever the rich guy says for money(just not much money).

Have had a few interviews, but no degree. I have worked as a Mechanical Design Engineer, Business Analyst, Programmer amd Manufacturing Engineer. I know more about Bills of Material than most anyone on the planet. But I was being paid too much, according to ITW(assholes) and they decided to cut costs because their business plan didn't work for the type of business I was in.

Good luck all, sorry for the rant.

[Missy Vixen]

69. I'm fifty years old

I have never voted for a Republican. EVER. I'm also what's known as a "perfect" voter, so I get ALL the phone calls/lit drops/doorbelling.

Why don't you post YOUR voting history?

Yup. I thought so.

:eyes:

[shanti]

71. umm

you're preaching to the choir here :eyes: most of us wouldn't dream of voting repuke and never have, hello!

[Skittles]

78. actually

quite a few DUers have admitted voting for Reagan - that just floors me, how many people that stupid evil bastard fooled

[Skittles]

77. 53, hanging in there for now

but I have never and never will EVER vote repuke - not EVER

[mntleo2]

89. Say It Again Brutha!

...as a long time activist and straight ticket Dem (except 1996 then I voted Green because I was so mad at Clinton signing AFSA, NAFTA, Welfare Reform and Telecommunications bills, all merely kissing Rethug ass), I also tried to tell my peers that voting abd being Repthug is digging their own grave. They laughed and called me "too idealistic" and that "it (my concerns about what was coming) would never happen ..." These are the same idiots who believed to *never* trust anyone over 30 ...then when they got over 30, suddenly they forgot all social justice and chased the green, stepping all over everyone else's ideals in the process.

Now they are in the same place I am with no job, lost their homes, and living in poverty and this is after wasting so much time selling their souls. They are mad and feel robbed, broken down and in despair. I am not saying anyting but I am dying to ...just ONCE I wish I could say, "I told you so, you dumbass!" But they are so sad and shaken down that I don't have the heart.

Cat in Seattle

[PSzymeczek]

94. St. Ronnie's first term

turned me into a liberal Democrat.

[LiberalEsto]

13. Same here

I'm 58, out of work for 2 years. Worked as a newspaper reporter 1972-1990 and again 1993-1997. Wrote marketing case studies for the natural gas air conditioning industry for 8 years, but they no longer need me.

With so many former reporters looking for work, freelance work is very hard to get and pays ridiculously low rates.

Fortunately my husband has a job, but I wonder if I'll ever work again. Can't bag groceries because of a herniated disc, sciatica and arthritis. No money for school because we're still putting one kid through school and paying the student loans for the older one, who works as a nanny.

[NBachers]

18. Thank God for my hardware store job

I'm 61 and I'm lucky enough to work at a locally-owned, well-established hardware store. I can apply all the years I've put in on construction and building maintenance jobs. I feel valued, and am able to contribute to peoples' lives every day. One of my co-workers is 81.

Unfortunately, there's a giant new Lowe's scheduled to open up in our town next month. It's a behemoth. I'm going to stay where I am, but I'm very apprehensive of what this store will do to our business.

Raising the retirement age to 70, when people can't even find work to retire from, is reprehensible. It's a blatant attempt to kill off Social Security recipients before they can even collect.

Yes- they want to kill millions of people off and keep their money. It's all the rage these days. It's going to get worse.

I agree 100% with the people who ask, "How many of you have been voting Republican all these years?"

[Zoonart]

22. On the bubble

My husband is 59 and still working, thank God, but his salary was cut by more than a third three years ago and for us it has been a slow bleed. He has gone on many interviews, but the interviewers are all on their thirties and they hate the Boomers. They are not gonna hire Dad. I am a painter and a novelist. My Publishing house went belly up on 2009 and I have an exhibition of new work opening in November, but I am wracked with the fear that I will not be able to sell in this environment and am spending money on the show. I must be crazy.
I have NEVER voted Republican in my life. You know who has voted Republican all their lives. My very elderly parents who have enjoyed every moment of their retirement, but have spent their lives voting against the best interests of their own children and grandchildren. It mystifies me. When I bring up our worries to them, they call me a complainer. I had a business of my own for twenty years. I was a restorer, but because I did not stand behind a cash register , somehow that does not count as work. My artistic accomplishments are meaningless to them because they did not make me rich.
This is partially why the whole Tea Bagger thing makes me so angry. I see my parents in them. Is anyone else having trouble being compassionate and loving with elderly parents who treat them with such distain?

[Karenina]

41. Welcome to DU, Zoonart!

:hug:

[Le Taz Hot]

103. Shout out to a fellow artisan

and Boomer! Welcome to DU! :hi:

[CoffeeCat]

43. I love local hardware stores...

I live in a suburb, and we have a Lowes, Menard's and also a Home Depot within ten minutes of our
house. We always go to the local hardware store. People like you work there. They know what
they are doing, they know how to help and they actually care. I always appreciate that and I know
so many others do too.

You hang in there. Even with Lowe's coming to town, there are plenty of people like me who
would rather support the mom-and-pop shop that comes with knowledgeable employees who know
a band saw from a band-aid!

[KamaAina]

44. "It's a blatant attempt to kill off Social Security recipients before they can even collect. "

So are the years-long backlogs on appeal cases. So, for that matter, is the whole appeal process, in which applicants with disabilities are routinely denied, and forced to appeal, several times before they are finally determined to be disabled and start collecting benefits. :grr:

[Clear Blue Sky]

20. Scary...

[AllyCat]

28. as I've just been told by some friend of a friend on FB: She's just lazy and

wants to live off everyone else's tax dollars. Despite my arguments that there are no jobs...idiot Palin wannabe made some stump speech to which other friends of the friend said "we'll vote for you!"

This is what we are up against. All these people who've been recruited by corporate mind control.

[Le Taz Hot]

31. Out-of-work boomer here.

I'm a 55-year-old female with 2 college degrees, a vast amount of experience and a salary history that scares the bejezus out of most employers living in an area with a 16.2% unemployment rate. Guess what my prospects are?

Having said that, I'm looking around at my fellow boomers, also losing their jobs, homes, health insurance (at a time we REALLY need it) and life savings and you know what I'm finding? Every one of them, including myself, is starting their own business. Micro businesses though they may be they're businesses nonetheless and right now, it's the only thing we have going. We have a choice. We can wring our hands or we can roll up our sleeves.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Carni]

37. I'm 46 and we're doing the same thing...

If my husband and I are going to work for peanuts, we'll do it for ourselves and not for some corp that expects us to make what we did back when we were in our early 20's (And back then we actually got benefits! WHAT A CONCEPT?!?!)

There are no jobs that pay decently in our area currently-- IF you can even get a job! So we created our own jobs,
with that said we are fortunate that we had the opportunity to be able to start a gig for ourselves, many people can't!

[pitohui]

76. self employment is slow suicide

having been self employed for over two decades all i can say is "we can wring our hands or we can roll up our sleeves" sounds very reaganesque

the reality is that if a business makes money it has already been acquired

so you can roll up your sleeves and work for nothing as a slave, because for most people self employment means that you LOSE money by working

i was a crime victim and unemployable because of that from an early age, this fantasy that self employment (working for low pay w/out benefits) is a good and wise thing to do is just that...a fantasy

until people stop kidding themselves that they can bootstrap themselves, until people stop blaming themselves, we will never come together and have a guaranteed income (dole) and you are now offended that i even said the word "dole" but the reality is, going by statistics, most likely you will LOSE money as a self employed person and cause your family harm, the dole isn't much but it doesn't cause you to LOSE money

$800 a month income is better than $800 a month outgo, which is the likely result of most self employment ventures

if you have a LOT of money and you are starting a business for your pride, so you won't have to admit in public you can't get work, fine, i think that is the case w. a lot of over 50s -- my dad among them -- but if you NEED to earn then starting your own business just hastens the day when you're flat broke and deep in debt...

i am tired of people "volunteering" etc. to get credits, attention, etc. not noticing they are working for NOTHING and killing those of us who truly have no way to ever get a job

[zenprole]

97. Many Thanks

Your comment reiterates mine that was deleted above: microbusiness is an ideologican scam for those who refuse to question the system. Of course, I added in a blast at the false victimhood of Baby Boomers. I wonder which set off the Thought Police?

Speaking of thinkstop, where's the post with Obama's comments at that $30K/plate fundraiser in CT? That's the one where, in so many words, he derides his supporters for buying into the ur-marketing of a black president.

[Le Taz Hot]

99. Ah, so you're the one they deleted.

Where exactly am I being the victim? My post was quite the opposite. Oh, wait. I just noticed -- a Boomer hater. Tell me, are you from the "what-have-you-done-for-me-lately" generation or from the "Ooh!-Look-at-the-new-shiny-thing" generation? It's rhetorical.

[Liberal_in_LA]

85. Seems like over 40 are going to have to hire themselves (micro businesses) to make it

good luck with your new venture

[BrklynLiberal]

42. yep....

Last corporate job was in computers, for a big bank, for $85K/annum + benefits, 401k, health insurance paid vacation, holidays, etc.

NOW..working for $7/hr in a bakery. No benefits at all...

[defendandprotect]

47. THIS began minutes after the JFK assassination .....

at that time, however, they gave substantial severance -- and often they had

access immediately or eventually to small pension savings.

Now -- nothing!!!

But this move to letting people go who were just pre-retirement age became very

prominent at that time.

[swilton]

49. Hey, I'm in that boat

Two MA's and discarded is exactly the way that I feel. It is more than the political dynamics....it is the way that technology is valorized over doing work in traditional ways.

Examples are when was the last time you talked to a human as opposed to an answering machine when you wanted to make a business call? Technology and efficiency do not necessarily yield better quality - but tell that to the the many boards of directors of corporate America who neither comprehend nor empathize.

Thankfully the Green Revolution in agro-business is being exposed for the fraud that it is/was. But not before destroying our food industry and our topsoil nearly beyond redemption.

All of this was totally predictable - just ask Karl Marx.

[mistertrickster]

52. Hey, whiners, Bush says outsourcing is a "positive transformation."

Let's not forget these words of wisdumb from Worst President Ever (2004 annual report to Congress):

WASHINGTON — The movement of U.S. factory jobs and white-collar work to other countries is part of a positive transformation that will enrich the U.S. economy over time, even if it causes short-term pain and dislocation, the Bush Administration said yesterday.

*****

Yeah . . . short-term pain, like the rest of your natural life . . .

[KansDem]

62. Did he really say "positive transformation?"

I mean, that's seven syllables!

I don't think he used that many syllables in an entire sentence!

[mistertrickster]

105. His spokesperson said it . . . you're right, Bush couldn't handle vocabulary like that. nt

[shanti]

54. it happened to my dad

and it is happening now to my brother. :(

[G_j]

55. soylent green?

I know that's a nasty thought, but I'm 59 and also feeling very cynical about the future..

[matt819]

56. Everything is upside down

I have a pile of wood that I need to have stacked. I figured I'd get a high school kid who wanted a few bucks for a day's work. I figured it would cost about $100. So, my FedEx driver is here and asks me why my pile of wood is still unstacked. I tell him I'm hoping to find a high school kid, etc. He tells me that he's tried to get high school kids to do some work, but they are looking for $15 an hour. The driver, a guy in his 50s, said that he and his wife would be happy to do the work for $100. I'm not sure if he was desperate or joking. This is one seriously fucked up situation. Well, all I can say is that I'm glad this recession is over. I read about that today on the internet, so it must be true. Yeah, right.

As for expecting everyone to go out and become entrepreneurs, that's a fantasy. First, not everyone is cut out for that. Second, and perhaps more important, is that the banks are not loaning money. I don't care what anyone says. Banks, even community banks, are not lending to small businesses. Third, who are all these entrepreneurs going to sell to? Other people with no discretionary funds?

[Le Taz Hot]

58. Allow me to answer you questions:

1) Nowhere in my suggestion upthread did I say "everyone." If I didn't specifically state then, let me do so now. This is an option SOME are taking.
2) Micro businesses are those in which there is no borrowed money involved or, if so, very small amounts, say $5,000.00 and under.
3) Someone once asked Dillinger why he robbed banks and he answered, "it's where the money is." The money hasn't disappeared, it's just all at the top. THERE'S your clientele.


The greatest favor anyone can ever do for me is to tell me something is a "fantasy," and that it can't be done. Greatest incentive ever.

Peace.

[pitohui]

82. you're not getting a billionaire's cash w. your beer money micro business

i'm not trying to be cold water but if you NEED to earn then you are really going to have issues because there is no way you can attract the very few people with pocket at the top, with a $5K micro business

you are going to lose the little you have and end in bankruptcy, if you're single, cool, it's your risk, but if people are relying on you, then you need to sleep on this and think about it

rich people don't do business with poor people and micro business/micro loans is poor people

i am one of the few people i know personally who has never gone bankrupt as a self employed person, maybe the only one who has not held a job since age 25

i don't wanna say you don't have a clue but based on what you've posted you have a fantasy that being angry and having willpower somehow helps you, it doesn't, it hurts you...badly

MANY people who are "servicing" the ultra rich are going broke because that market DOESN'T understand that they need to pay their bills on time, it isn't important to them...and they don't know you have to eat, you are literally not a human being to them

i could tell stories but if you can read and research you should be able to pick it up from here

if you want to live a fantasy and lose everything because YOU have willpower and determination (not understanding that EVERYONE who is self employed is determined and works 80 hrs a week) i can't help you, no one can help you, what will be will be and it won't be pretty

[Le Taz Hot]

96. I don't even know where to start here.

Yes, you ARE trying to pour cold water on innovation but, as I said earlier, it merely acts as an incentive.

I will not lose the little I have because I'm not going into debt to do it.

Rich people absolutely DO do business with micro businesses. I'M DOING IT NOW. So I've already proven you wrong.

I've also never gone bankrupt.

I do have a clue as I've already started, built and sold a very successful business. On a $2,000.00 investment so don't tell me it can't be done. I assure you I am not angry but am a realist. NO ONE will hire an old, ugly, fat, 55 year old woman. No one. So what do you propose I do? I know, maybe I can go on the internet and piss on someone's ideas and dreams. Now THERE'S a productive use of my time. :eyes:

[DeschutesRiver]

73. Funny you mention wood stacking - I paid $11/hour for a kid to do this when

I'd sprained my ankle and dh's back had gone out (and we still had to get hay in the barn ourselves). The rest of the kids wanted $15+. One 20 year old was "offended" when she found out that that I need weeds pulled (she worked with animals in outside tasks, but damned if she was going to pull some lady's weeds like a yard worker simply because she had no clients or work at the moment). I was going to be out there pulling right alongside, so what was so freaking "offensive"?

We ended up hiring this kid and his friend for 11/per hour each and a huge lunch and whatever drinks they wanted (non alcoholic).

Repeatedly, I'd look out the window to find Kid A tossing a single piece of wood to Kid B, who was catching it and tossing it on the stack with one hand, while texting on his cell phone with the other. Repeatedly, I asked him to wait and do that on his own time. My request poured through his ears from one side to other like water and emptied out without being processed.

I had other work - but after they'd finished the wood, I never called them back. I did use a couple of others for a bit, but mostly waited until me and dh healed up and just did it ourselves. Saved me the cost of hiring someone who really didn't want this kind of work. But I don't get it.

[Mopar151]

86. The holy phone.....

I don't know if it's really their fault - they are taught from the cradle to ANSWER THE PHONE!

[DeschutesRiver]

87. That made me smile:)

But seriously, what is with all this texting? Are they all doing it or just the ones I am running into?

How can they hold a job doing this? It's not like the kid thought he was doing it secretly - the woodpile is on the porch, under the large kitchen window where I was working inside.

I guess in the old days, I spent a lot of time on the phone to friends, which is the same thing. Except I wouldn't have dared to do it at work, because people got fired for doing that back then.

[Threedifferentones]

61. I dunno who has it worse.

Folks like these who are in danger of losing everything they worked hard for and felt secure about. Or, folks like me, who are thinking, what (legal) career path can I take to ever hope to afford a 3,000 square foot house on a beautiful piece of property? Even if I probably have damn near 50 years left to work?

[bluescribbler]

63. I know all about it.

I'm 59. Got laid off just before Memorial Day. Had many interviews which I thought went well, but no offers until last Thursday for a temporary job which may last just a month. Of course I took the job. Started this morning. My friend, a PHD in Molecular Biology, has been out of work since July, 2008. He's had many interviews, and of course, they don't say that he's too old, but the things they do say lead him to believe that they're just skating the thin edge of job discrimination.

[slackmaster]

65. I've experienced age discrimination. It has to be one of the most insidious forms of prejudice.

HR people and managers discriminate against "older" workers all the time, often without realizing what they are doing. Because older people tend to be more experienced and paid more, it's always easy to dodge an accusation of age bias by saying you were looking to fill a position with someone closer to entry level.

We get paid more because we know what the fuck we are doing, dammit.

Just one little tip for my fellow seasoned citizens - If you aren't naturally youthful in appearance, Grecian Formula is your friend.

[Skidmore]

67. This woman's story is mine too.

Graduate degrees and I even went back to college after losing my job to get an additional certification. Get interviews but no offers. Have become pretty disheartened and do not have much hope for the rest of my life. I plan for when I become homeless and destitute at some point. I think it will happen. I feel like I have wasted my life getting a higher education. If I could have had all that money I spent out of pocket to get it (and I worked my way through two degrees, leaving only with $5,000 in debt).

[Faygo Kid]

68. Girlfriend will be 60 next year and unemployed since first of the year.

First time ever. Totally qualified, hard working professional. If she doesn't find work in the next couple months, I will move in with her to assure she doesn't lose her house.

I value my own space, but you do what you need to do in these awful times. Besides, she's a good egg.

My cat will not like the two dogs, but oh well . . .

[Skittles]

75. she's fortunate to have you, Faygo Kid

yes INDEED

[Fire1]

83. That is really good of you, Faygo. We all should be helping

one another.

[McCamy Taylor]

72. So lucky I am in the health care profession.

Because of our screwed up public health policies which encourage people to get sick, there is more than enough work for doctors, nurses, pharmacists.

[Dappleganger]

74. Those are fairly safe jobs.

I am seriously thinking of going back to school to go into respiratory therapy, as those jobs are quite plentiful in this area. My mother switched careers to nursing after years of teaching so she's my inspiration. First, we have to fix my back which may take awhile.

[pitohui]

80. in new orleans theyre importing cheap nurses from the phillipines

so spending big bucks to train as a nurse is just not on, i'm guessing it will spread all over the country eventually

[kiranon]

81. It feels like this is the new industrial revolution where some jobs will never

return and many people will never work again at least not in the same manner as before. The Tea Party Movement wants to go back to a time when they were relevant and that period is gone. No one knows quite what is ahead but only by looking forward and adapting to change will jobs be found. It is clearly a "think outside the box" world and economy ahead. Have no idea what to tell my children they should do but I know that the ability to think and adapt to change is critical. What jobs they will have - it's not knowable for the older worker or the younger ones.

[prolesunited]

88. Not quite 50, but I've given up hope

First in my family to graduate from college and what do I have to show for it? Lost two jobs in the past five years and haven't been able to get a new one despite my willingness to cut my salary nearly in half just to have insurance benefits.

Well, I did travel and have some good times. It's been slow and painful, but I've come to realize my life will never be the same. Luckily, I've been very frugal and have a Plan B for not ending up homeless. I'll still need some income, but not very much and I've turned almost my entire back yard into an organic vegetable garden.

[jimmil]

91. It's all over, I'll never have another job....

I was laid off in my late 50s and haven't had but a couple contract jobs since. With a PhD from MIT I can't get a job delivering pizzas. I would take any job, from entry level to VP, but it appears that I have either too much experience or that I would never take a salary cut of $150K.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

92. job scared. me too.

:scared:

[Hawkowl]

95. Catfood baby!!!

Once the catfood commission recommends raising the retirement age to 70 then we'll all be really screwed. What they should be doing is bringing down the retirement age to 55 for full SS benefits and medicare. Then, the unemployment level can drop and people don't have to worry themselves to death.

[truedelphi]

107. Wish I could rec this one again and again. n/t