Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Dead zones cause by excessive nitrogen runoff more damaging than BP oil spill

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
True Earthling Donating Member (373 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 09:14 AM
Original message
Dead zones cause by excessive nitrogen runoff more damaging than BP oil spill
The BP oil spill is a huge ecological disaster but excess nitrogen runoff in the Mississippi River basin is equally troubling...

http://www.gulfhypoxia.net/News/default.asp?XMLFilename=201009130816.xml

The ultimate cause of the dead zone is the excess delivery of nitrogen from the Mississippi River that stimulates excessive growth of phytoplankton, the plants of the ocean that respond to nitrogen in much the same way that corn responds to fertilizer. As the phytoplankton die and settle to the bottom, bacterial decay depletes oxygen resulting in hypoxic (< 2 part per million O2) or anoxic conditions. We now know that the source of the excess nitrogen is human activity and largely the result of fertilizers washing off of agricultural fields and entering the tributary waters of the Mississippi. Between the 1950s and mid-1990s the nitrate load in the Mississippi River increased by 300 percent. The ultimate solution is to decrease nitrogen runoff or use of fertilizers, but these are much more challenging tasks than it initially seems.

The occurrence of dead zones around the world is steadily increasing. Prior to the 1940s there were less than 25 known dead zones and now there are over 400. The number of reported dead zones has been rising since the 1960s and is currently doubling each decade. There does not appear to be an end in sight as only 4 percent of these dead zones are showing signs of recovery. Climate change is expected to make the situation worse as warm water holds less oxygen than cold water. Further, as climate warms, rainfall will increase, which means that runoff from land will increase as well and carry with it the excess nitrogen that stimulates phytoplankton growth. Climate change is also expected to increase the strength and duration of tropical-storm and hurricane winds and may introduce more oxygen by stirring the waters than would occur otherwise. A very extensive dead zone was predicted in 2005 but this was the year of hurricanes Cindy, Dennis, Katrina and Rita. What was very harmful to land was actually quite beneficial to the waters.

To return to the question of which human-induced disaster is worse, the northern Gulf of Mexico dead zone or Deepwater Horizon oil spill, my inclination is the dead zone. I have no desire to excuse an incredibly harmful event that very likely could have been prevented with appropriate safety measures. My expectation, however, is that in 30 years we will likely have forgotten about the Deepwater Horizon oil spill as we have forgotten about Ixtoc. I am cautiously optimistic that fisheries will recover. Marshes will be heavily impacted and oil will be present in 30 years, but the marshes may succumb to a different ecological disaster: sea-level rise and land subsidence. But unless we can find a way to reduce nitrogen loading to the Mississippi River (by approximately one-half), the dead zone will still be with us in 30 years and will very likely increase in size and duration.

Hypoxia news feed... http://www.gulfhypoxia.net/News/


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
1. hypoxia.net
can blow out its a.....

The oil spill has a much farther and longer lasting impact than a dead zone which comes and goes and can easily be remedied.

I wonder how much BP paid them to post such drivel?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nebenaube Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. no doubt...
The dead zones that were present prior to the spill did not produce the fish kills we have been seeing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. the fish kills you've have been seeing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #2
13. well
....you put the two together - oil in the water with the nitrogen, and now it's worse than ever. We can't clean the oil out of the water, but we can clean the nitrogen loading.

I trust the locals in La who are saying this is the worst kill they've ever seen. And BP is the main culprit.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. "can easily be remedied" LOL.
LOL.

The Gulf just outside the Mississippian has a dead zone which has lasted for over a decade. While it shrinks and grows it isn't "can easily be remedied"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Easily
Just quit pumping nitrogen into the river. It will clear up.

Now, how do we get rid of all that oil and the dispersant? EH?
What do the statistics say?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. And global warming is also easily fixed
Just quit pumping CO2 into the atmosphere.

See? Nothing to worry about, move along now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Yeah, easy
We just can't afford it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. And we can't afford to give up the cheap crops grown with all that nitrogen either
So your point is?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. the river is a sewer pipe
It has been damaged. Return the river to it's more natural flow and it cleans up.

And stop the direct drain of the fields into the river. Easy, but expensive.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. The expensive part is what makes it difficult to do
Otherwise, it would have been done long ago and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

What you propose would solve the problem, but they won't be done. Returning the river to a natural flow would impede shipping. Stopping direct drainage of fields into the rivers would require extra work and expense on the farmer's part, with the risk of reduced crop yields if they have to reduce nitrogen applications. Both of these are deal-breakers in a capitalist society like ours that puts more value on money than on environmental protection.

Saying something is easy but expensive is being naive about the way the world works.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Like I said
We can't afford it.

Nearly all the damage done to the planet could be fixed.
We have decided it would be to expensive to fix it, we can't afford it. You just said so.

Anywhoooo, what is your solution, then, to the excess nitrogen?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
True Earthling Donating Member (373 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. If it's as easy as you say why haven't they stopped
"pumping nitrogen in the river"?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
True Earthling Donating Member (373 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. BP shills?
Edited on Mon Sep-20-10 09:29 AM by True Earthling
Interesting reaction. Nobody is excusing BP. Just trying to shine some light on another ecological disaster. The dead zone in the Gulf was there long before the BP spill. Dead zones come.. but they don't go.

http://www.gulfhypoxia.net/AboutUs/


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. bullshit
We can clean up the polluted with nitrogen water by stopping the pollution this year.

But the oil will be around for decades and can't be stopped.

The hypox comparison is like apples and oranges.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
underseasurveyor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #4
17. If dead zones come,
they will also go.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
16. Yeah the remedy is easy. Just tell the farmers they have to reduce their yields.
Whether true or not, that's exactly how the farmers will view it.

Farmers already have access to full land fertility assays and can vary fertiliser application continuously over fields. They can calculate to the last kg/hectare exactly how much and know right down to the square metre where to put it. And at the end of it all, a good many will still dial in a few extra percent to "allow" for heavy rains and runnoff taking it away, which is exactly the situation we're wanting to avoid. And if they anticipate a wet year they will dial higher still. The only time they'll cut back is in a dry year when money is tight and there isn't a bloody problem.

The oil will indeed be a long time going away, but unless it's added to, go it eventually will. Dead zones come back every year, and every year they grow in size and number as more and more land falls under intensive cultivation.

Oil production (and with good management spills) is a declining quantity. Not so fertiliser.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
7. K&R...
facts are good.

Sid
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HopeHoops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
15. In general yes, and all the more reason to become vegetarian, but the recent fish kill - no way.
The nitrogen kills generally target one, or maybe two species. This kill hit pretty much everything. That's not a normal farm runoff kill. Still, every time you eat meat you are contributing to the destruction of waterway environments. But that's not the real issue here. This kill can't be attributed to anything other than the most recent oil spill. And 30 years probably won't make a flying fuck of a difference in the environmental impact of this disaster.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-10 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #15
26. Yes, the recent fish kill was oxygen related.
Particularly low tides can cut off fresh oxygenated water from pools where fish may be trapped.

Hypoxic zones due to fertilizers are a much larger problem. Nitrogen causes plankton to bloom, then their density causes the bottom layers to die due to lack of light, which are consumed by bacteria. As those bacteria thrive, they consume oxygen, killing other creatures. Those other creatures provide food for more bacteria, which only strengthens the cycle of destruction.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
18. Why are they even comparing them?
Edited on Mon Sep-20-10 11:56 AM by Uncle Joe
The nitrogen dead zone was/is bad, but the Gulf Oil Gusher made a bad situation much worse driving many species in to the dead zone to escape the oil, dispersant and fire.

Edit to add, like being caught between a hammer and anvil.

Thanks for the thread, True Earthling.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
19. Another toxic offspin of GMO genetically mutant soybeans and corn
Edited on Mon Sep-20-10 12:08 PM by SpiralHawk
The toxic crap they pour on these Genetically 'Invincible' Mutant Crops eventually finds its way to the sea, after -- of course -- causing mutations in the soil microbes.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. GMO crops have nothing to do with the Gulf Dead zone
The dead zones are created because of excessive use of nitrogen fertilizer, both from animal manure and artificial fertilizers, running off the land and into the Mississippi. This has been happening long before GM crops were even invented; the Green Revolution of the 1960's and 70's, with it's development of hybridized, non-GM crops, set this in motion.

GM crops have a lot of faults, but claiming they are responsible for the Gulf dead zones is just scare-mongering with no scientific basis.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. No scientific basis?
That's never stopped Spiralhawk before.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. The GMO insanity diliberately perpetuates the chemicalization of the land
Edited on Mon Sep-20-10 05:42 PM by SpiralHawk
and atrazine (Roundup) is just another mutant deforming mess of glop in the mix befouling the groundwater, streams, rivers, and Gulf.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-10 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Wait, do you think Atrazine is the same thing as Round-Up?
:rofl:

They are two COMPLETELY different chemicals, with very different properties on organic tissue.

And as I said before, the "GMO insanity" comes AFTER the hybridization insanity of the 1950's-1970's that started the whole push for massive increases in fertilizer applications. Even if GM crops had never been invented, we'd still have the Dead Zones because we'd still be planting corn fields full of hybrid corn instead.

The Gulf Dead Zones aren't dead because of any mutagenic properties of pesticides; they're dead because they're no OXYGEN from all the extra nitrogen running into the water.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-10 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #20
28. Dead zone in gulf linked to ethanol production - GMO
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/07/05/MNF91E84SL.DTL

Washington - -- While the BP oil spill has been labeled the worst environmental catastrophe in recent U.S. history, a biofuel is contributing to a Gulf of Mexico "dead zone" the size of New Jersey that scientists say could be every bit as harmful to the gulf.

Each year, nitrogen used to fertilize corn, about a third of which is made into ethanol, leaches from Midwest croplands into the Mississippi River and out into the gulf, where the fertilizer feeds giant algae blooms. As the algae dies, it settles to the ocean floor and decays, consuming oxygen and suffocating marine life.

Known as hypoxia, the oxygen depletion kills shrimp, crabs, worms and anything else that cannot escape. The dead zone has doubled since the 1980s and is expected this year to grow as large as 8,500 square miles and hug the Gulf Coast from Alabama to Texas.


Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/07/05/MNF91E84SL.DTL#ixzz10B17XRXj
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
immune Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-10 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. Big ag .... Big oil
and here we are, stuck in the middle again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-10 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Exactly
As I said in my previous post:

"The dead zones are created because of excessive use of nitrogen fertilizer, both from animal manure and artificial fertilizers, running off the land and into the Mississippi. This has been happening long before GM crops were even invented; the Green Revolution of the 1960's and 70's, with it's development of hybridized, non-GM crops, set this in motion."

Thank you for agreeing with me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-10 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
27. Another challenge is loss of wetlands
Much of these fertilizers would have been soaked up and consumed by thriving wetlands. They are nature's nitrogen sink. Not only does the plant life in the wetlands consume nitrogenous waste, but additionally, anaerobic bacteria deep in the substrate convert nitrates into harmless nitrogen gas.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 26th 2024, 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC