If we get our asses kicked in November, it will prove

[Jackpine Radical]

that the Dems didn't go far enough right to capture the Independents.

On the other hand, if we do unexpectedly well in November, it will prove that moving to the right is the winning strategy, and we need to keep moving right to keep our majority.

The goddamn professional liberals will be whining in either case. Earplugs are the only way to deal with them.

[The Magistrate]

1. There You Go,My Friend: Heads They Win, Tails We Lose

The fact is that any Democratic loss this year will owe to not having fought for progressive positions advocated by the President during his campaign.

[Jackpine Radical]

18. Absolutely.

Obama et al. were far too concerned with appearing to be "bipartisan" and afraid of triggering a massive "Harry & Louise" campaign against their health insurance bill. They supported Blue Dogs against progressive challengers (Rahm having previously played a major role in installing the Blue Dogs in the first place). They pissed on the unions, gave away the public schools, and escalated Afghanistan. They covered up and even continued to practice the sins of their predecessors. They left Siegelman in the pit while rescuing Stevens. Now they may end up paying the price for their Corporate Democratic policies. Unfortunately, the price they will pay is measured in the blood and toil and tears of the public at large. They may end up out of office, but we will end up out of luck.

[txlibdem]

36. Dems may end up out of office, but we will end up out of luck.

We've been out of luck ever since the congress and the administration decided to help corporations but tell working people losing their homes and their life savings to go to hell.

One speech from President Obama will not convince me that he has changed his pro-corporate ideology. I'll need to see concrete evidence, not just more pretty speeches like he gave on the campaign trail.

[kentuck]

48. I can't tell if I want that winesap or that yellow delicious...?

They both taste like apples.

[bobbolink]

2. !!

Fuck you very much!

:rofl:

:hi: :yourock:

Let me guess.. your stock portfolio is lopsided with earplug companies, right? ~~gigglesnort~~

[napi21]

3. I disagree. If we lose in Nov. it means we as Dem voters were

too damn lazy to get off the couch a vote! If we WIN it means that the majority of voters, although very unhapp with the current Admin, are even MORE AFRAID of the Pubs!

[pnorman]

6. I'd like to Rec. that thought!

Let's all GOTV!

[RaleighNCDUer]

8. I'm too fucking tired of voting out of fear. Is it too much to ask

to be given something to vote FOR?

[bobbolink]

15. !!

:applause:

Sadly, apparently it *is* too much to ask. :(

[derby378]

32. +10000 (n/t)

[JoePhilly]

33. So stay home ... the whine will taste better. nt.

[bobbolink]

13. Oh yeah, calling people "lazy" and other names is a really fine way to motivate people.

:crazy:

Did it ever occur to you that you might get more flies with honey than with vinegar? Ever have that thought, even fleetingly?

[Andy823]

14. I totally agree!

Sitting on the couch in front of the TV bitching isn't going to win an election, and if republicans do win, the whole country will lose!

[county worker]

4. Did you forget the sarcasm smilie?

I'm not sure if you're joking or starting a flame war. You can't be serious.

If you think Americans want right wing policies you sure haven't been paying attention.
Moving right means more jobs go off shore; unions continue on the decline; more corporations will enjoy deregulation; people will remain uninsured and unable to afford health insurance; higher education will remain out of reach for most students; Social Security and Medicare will face cuts and the retirement age will increase to 70; Housing will remain unattainable due to lack of credit for various reasons; unemployment will remain high; the middle class will continue to shrink; the income gap will continue to widen.

If that's what you think we should do I hope your candidates lose the next election.

[Individualist]

11. +1

[Jackpine Radical]

22. I'm not talking about the opinions of the public.

I'm talking about what the media will say, and the Administration will believe.

You're exactly right. The public is far to the left of the power elites, and we have no voice. We are not heard. We are misinterpreted. And our basic choice is between being screwed fast and being screwed slowly.

[county worker]

27. I guess I mistook your OP.

[Jackpine Radical]

35. Sometimes I make too many assumptions.

Having been around here since the beginning of time, I sort of assume people are used to my posting style. Also, I hate that little "sarcasm" thingie & rarely use it because it seems to detract from being a smartass if you have to keep telling people you're being a smartass.

[elocs]

5. The truth is that the far left no more represents most Americans than does the far right.

If the wacko teapartiers want to move the Republican party to the far right they will lose the sane middle. But that same middle will not give broad and unconditional support to the far left either no matter how we may try to twist it. Just because the middle supports some aspects of Liberalism does not make them Liberal Democrats any more than the middle that supports some aspects of conservatism makes them far right Republicans.

If the Democrats lose badly in November and the Party will move in one direction or the other my guess is that it will move more to the right, closer to the center. More to the right than Liberals would like, but maybe not so far as the Blue Dogs and DINOs.

[gkhouston]

7. No. If we actually stick to our stated principles and *acted* on them, *we* will

get the sane middle. The "far left" is a lot less "left" than it used to be. The true far left, probably isn't, but the label "far left" is being tossed around now and slapped on anything even vaguely liberal.

[elocs]

19. You may get some of the sane middle sometimes, but not consistently enough to put them in this camp.

Most Americans are not at or near either extreme.

[yurbud]

9. so people who want everyone to have healthcare with a cost effective program like European countries

have is as destructive as know nothings screaming about death panels?

[bobbolink]

16. Hush with the logic already!

You're ruining a perfectly good attack!

:hi:

[RaleighNCDUer]

12. That would make sense, if there WAS a far left.

Any movement to the right is AWAY from the center - we left the center behind us a long time ago.

[elocs]

17. The far left is certainly represented here at DU. Even if it has little or no power

does not mean it does not exist. Most Americans are not at either extreme.

[TonyMontana]

24. The "far left" here at DU is the center in Denmark

Also the center in Canada, France, Italy, Finland, Sweden, and a whole bunch of other enlightened and civilized nations.

[yurbud]

25. on many, many issues, we are the center in the United States, from war, to health care, to Wall St.

reform.

[elocs]

30. Yes, it is relative nation to nation, but it is unlike to change here anytime soon. n/t

[yurbud]

26. when a DLCer says ''centrist'' they mean the center of a corporate pocket.

[txlibdem]

39. Far Left policies are far, far better for the nation than right wing policies ever could be

Hands down, in no uncertain terms, 100% of the time.

[AtomicKitten]

10. the only thing it will prove is that we got less votes, how you spin it is another thing altogether

[pampango]

20. Three spins are easy to predict. Blue Dogs: We didn't act enough like repubs.

Moderates: We didn't triangulate well enough to attract independents. Left: We didn't fire up our people with progressive accomplishments and future agenda.

You know you will hear all three if that happens. Let's hope we don't have to hear any of them. :)

[AtomicKitten]

21. I agree.

:fistbump:

[damntexdem]

23. Hey, that isn't from The Onion.

Be careful or people won't realize that it's sarcasm.

[Jackpine Radical]

29. Amazing, ainnit?

[EFerrari]

28. It's such a drag trying to contain all this power I have in the margins.

lol

[paulk]

31. I hope that's not what the party leadership would take

from a loss.

Personally, I think it would result from a failure of leadership - an inability to explain the administration's progressive legislation; perhaps even an inability to explain what is "progressive" about it...

If Democrats lose this fall it will be because they were unable to get their vote out -

[wiggs]

34. After the gop got their asses kicked in 2008, they had a choice...they could have

moved to the center after seeing that 8 years of hard RW behavior had failed politically and practically....or....they could double down on the crazy and go further right. They went further right, clearly.

All dem leaders had to do was stay where they were, what they campaigned on, and implement a progressive agenda that contrasted with the failed policies of the previous decade and then make clear the message. Instead, DEMS moved to the right too and confused everyone. Now, our policies are easy to conflate with failed RW policies and it's hard to say where democrats stand. There is still a difference between the parties, but not nearly as much as there should have been.

I think we might do better than expected in November, DESPITE moving to the right not because of it. The dems still have all the issues and the RW has the crazy...we just need to better develop the message. Doesn't matter if we move left, right, or sideways as long as we have a message (like in 2008) and don't let the RW create the message (at which they are the kings).

[txlibdem]

40. You got it! All dems had to do was to lead like Democrats

But the Obama administration and congressional Democrats moved to the right. I love your quote:

"DEMS moved to the right too and confused everyone. Now, our policies are easy to conflate with failed RW policies and it's hard to say where democrats stand."

That is what sure as heck confused me! (and still does)...

[HughMoran]

37. hahaha

Silly rabbit.

[BoneDaddy]

38. Once again it will be because of a misplay in politics

by the Dems.

[NorthCarolina]

41. Didn't you forget to add the sarcasm thingy? eom

[Jackpine Radical]

42. See # 18 above.

[Initech]

43. No it will prove that Fox News can elect congressmen.

I will tattoo it on my forehead if I have to - the next Congress will be elected by, for, and representing the interests of Fox News.

[TheWatcher]

44. It has already been proven that this country is no longer ours, and we are not wanted other than

to be cattle to fed off of.

It's just taking the realization longer to sink in for many.

Although frustrating, I can understand it.

Who the Hell would want to believe that NEITHER Side is on OUR side.

[ZombieHorde]

45. Almost as if people hold different opinions and perspectives from one another.

Shocking and surprising.

[johnaries]

46. Ahhhh, no. It will probably mean that the "divisive" element was successful.

It could mean a lot of things. But it will probably mean that the Naderites were successful in making people stay home and letting the "bad guys" win, to teach the "good guys" a lesson because they weren't "good" enough.

Reminds me of Snidley Whiplash tying Nell to the railroad tracks and saying "if I can't have you, no one can!"

"If we don't do it MY way, then we ALL suffer!"

C'mon, folks. To all the anti-Dems: Grow the fuck up.

[RaleighNCDUer]

47. So speaketh the voice of the DLC. dividing Democrats since 1983. nt