what change did this woman expect that she didn't get?

[spanone]

from townhall meeting today

Q: I am a chief financial officer for a veterans service organization, AmVets here in Washington. I'm also a mother, I'm a wife, I'm an American veteran, and I'm one of your middle-class Americans. And quite frankly, I'm exhausted. I'm exhausted of defending you, defending your administration, defending the mantle of change that I voted for --

THE PRESIDENT: Right.

Q: -- and deeply disappointed with where we are right now. I have been told that I voted for a man who said he was going to change things in a meaningful way for the middle class. I'm one of those people, and I'm waiting, sir. I'm waiting. I don't feel it yet. And I thought, while it wouldn't be in great measure, I would feel it in some small measure. I have two children in private school. And the financial recession has taken an enormous toll on my family. My husband and I joked for years that we thought we were well beyond the hot dogs and beans era of our lives. But quite frankly, it's starting to knock on our door and ring true that that might be where we're headed again. And quite frankly, Mr. President, I need you to answer this honestly, is this my new reality?

video here: http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/20/video-obamas-town-hall-meeting/

what is her new reality?

that she MIGHT have to eat hot dogs and beans while her kids go to private schools?

[ibegurpard]

1. your attitude, if shared by the Democratic party, will drive millions of voters away

edited for typos

[spanone]

3. i asked a question, what is your attitude?

[bobbolink]

11. There are some of us who still have compassion, and are able to LISTEN to others and HEAR them.

Too bad others can only mock and say, "So you didn't get your pony.. boo hoo."

Humanity.

Don't leave home without it.

[jannyk]

19. ++++++++++++++!!!!!

[bobbolink]

20. !! ^_^ !!

:pals:

[laughingliberal]

21. +1,000,000 nt

[spanone]

31. i asked a question. what did she vote for that she hasn't gotten. the economy is getting better

so you mock me.....hehehehe

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Luminous Animal]

60. My husband and I, combined, have taken a $40,000 a year pay cut.

We both work our asses off for small businesses... he as an independent contractor, me as a controller for one business and a bookkeeper for two others. Between the two of us, we service 13 small businesses that are hurting. Their gross revenue has been cut by half or more and about 5 of them are considering shutting their doors. My city has more and more empty store fronts every month. My corner grocer has had to lay off most of his employees and now works 16 hours a day. It has gotten so bad for him that his 80 year old dad comes in so he can take a nap in the back room.

I don't know what world you are living in but public services are being slashed... mass transit is laying off workers, teachers are being fired by the thousands, city governments are instituting 4 day work weeks with a reduction in pay.

My daughters friends, in their late teens and early twenties cannot find steady jobs. Those that can't live with their parents are living in marginal illegal housing... metal sheds or tents in a back yard or on a roof top or windowless fire trap basements. Tent towns are springing up everywhere.

There are more U.S. citizens living in poverty this year than last year and social services are being cut to the bone and food banks have to turn people away. The homeless population in my city has exploded.

[Winston Wolf]

66. Yes. The Economy Is Getting Better.

Meanwhile, many go starving and homeless. Others still are woefully unemployed or underemployed, and the minority of rich people in this country still, for reasons that escape me, manage to hold on to their vast empires of wealth - wealth that in many cases was acquired through the American taxpayer and blue collar worker, and on tried and true foreign slave labor.

I am curious - what definition of "better" are you working with?

[seabeyond]

15. +1. nt

[LoZoccolo]

36. She didn't nail down anything specific, but had a lot to complain about.

If she doesn't know what he can do for her, maybe it's not his fault, and maybe that needs to be addressed.

[stray cat]

2. People expect to be saved by someone and no one has saved them

there is a reason dems are called the mommy party I guess - we think the government will help us just like mommy. You and I are rich compared to the homeless - so why haven't we saved them?

[Luminous Animal]

61. Those called us the mommy party are those who are okay with our fellow Americans living ill-fed...

ill-clothed, and ill-housed.

We are the government. Growing up in a Dem household, the expectation was that we, the people,through our representative government would take care of each other. Nothing infantile about that arrangement. I did grow up during LBJ's War On Poverty and the possibilities were pretty exciting.

[BlueCheese]

4. I don't know anything about her...

Maybe the public schools where she lives aren't very good, or are too dangerous? Maybe the tuition isn't all that much, or is subsidized? How much do Catholic schools cost? I don't know...

[Dappleganger]

5. Wow.

That woman echoed my feelings exactly and your post is obnoxious.

[UndertheOcean]

6. Her Kids go to private school and she is whining ?

put your kids in public school lady . If public school is good enough for most Americans it is good enough for you ?

What is tuition for one kid in a private school ? Probably in the thousands , but I don't know.

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. +1

[FrenchieCat]

8. If it's parochial, most likely about 8 to 10K a year......

Independent private school? Anywhere from 15K to 25K a year per kid...
with maybe a 10% sibling discount.

[XemaSab]

68. I went to a private school

on a heavy scholarship.

Just because the kids are in private school doesn't mean she's got extra money.

[bobbolink]

9. another pony thread

:puke:

[ProSense]

13. Why not ignore the thread if it makes you sick? n/t

[seabeyond]

18. so, we should only go on the threads we agree with? i understand obamas position

i also understand this womens position and what she is feeling. i also know she is not sittin in the reality of where we are today, though she did ask if this is the new reality. and it may be. so that was perceptive.

i do have issue with people dismissing her, her concerns, her worries because she chose to put kid in private. i am also going to say i have issue with it. like all on a discussion board does when discussing.

[spanone]

32. nope, the economy is improving. what's her beef

[Chisox08]

63. The economy is improving.

Tell that to the millions of Americans who are unemployed with no hope in the foreseeable future of finding employment. The recession ended 15 months ago according to some economist, forgive me for not dancing in the streets. That "jobless recovery" is working wonders for the jobless.

[undeterred]

10. I was really pleased to see Obama being asked this question-

because millions of us want to ask him the same thing.

[pennylane100]

12. I just posted on another thread about her.

I thought her life sounded pretty good compared to people with no job, no home, and no health insurance. I did not understand her concern unless it was for her fellow citizens who do not have the luxury of a private school for the children and no credit card bills.

[vi5]

14. Man, she had me 99% of the way.....

right up until the kids in private school thing.

If you send your kids to public schools and work to make those schools better, then you could probably save yourself $15-20K a year.

There are plenty out there that could convey this message with a lot more sympathy than someone whining about the high cost of private school.

She's right there are plenty out there who are exhausted and thought they'd see some sort of tangible change and are finding themselves being buried deeper and deeper every day. And most of them don't have kids in private school.

[seabeyond]

16. what if she chooses to pay private, does without in other places where others spend their money on.

is it ok then

[JI7]

27. private school wouldn't even be an option for those who are struggling

if she is saving in other areas to pay for the private school it means she has the option.

are you saying she is saving in food, housing, and other basic needs to send the kids to private school ?

or is she giving up the vacation or more expensive car to send them there ?

[seabeyond]

37. i am saying, regardless of her chosing to send her child to private school, or has money in the bank

she has a legitimate point. stagnate wage, increase in cost of living has changed all our lifestyles. if she created her life in such a way to live comfortably and send kids to private school, then fine. she should not be dismissed because of her choices in living expenses. adn today, our lives have shifted. those of us that use to save, dont save today. those that made it paycheck to paycheck arent making it to paycheck anymore.

it isnt beat up the person because they may have more.

it is understanding that regardless, we are all in the same boat of seeing our lifestyles shift, and not looking like it is going ot get better

are we wishing everyone as poor as we?

[vi5]

28. Other places, like what? Eating hot dogs and beans?

Sure, if they would prefer to send their kids to private school and use their money for that and then eat hot dogs and beans instead of more fancy meals or food then that would be fine.

But then that's a personal financial choice and not hardship. There are plenty out there that don't have that choice. It's kids in public school AND hot dogs and beans.

Like I said, I agree with her message. I'm exhausted as well from defending politicians that don't choose to defend themselves and who make bad choices (Obama in particular but not exclusively). If that was her message then fine. But don't tell me you are struggling, but that your kids are going to private school.

[seabeyond]

38. of course there are all levels of income. so ALL must be desperate

to count? do we really want a world where NO ONE has money. is that the only equalizer. the only right for a person to be concerned about their finance, if they have NOTHING?

[vi5]

41. Not at all....

..her points are valid. Like I said, I agree with 99% of what she said. But I'm sorry, private school is a luxury. For her to have included that in her complaint gives it an air that is just not entirely palatable to me. Which is fine. She doesn't answer to me. I just wish there would be a town hall to give voice to the people who don't have jobs or are homeless or getting their meals from soup kitchens or food pantries.

Having someone whose main complaint is that she can't send both her kids to private school AND eat better, and have that be some flagship moment of clarity or whatever really does diminish those for whom it is too late and who are suffering in a much harsher way.

[seabeyond]

43. it is the diminsihing of the middle class. that is the bottom line. private school is irrelevant

and with the diminishing middle class, it hurts the truly poor more. it helps no one.

go past the private school. it isnt the point and it is petty everyone focusing on that

as a poster pointed out, hubby working two jobs and mom working to make that private school happen, is not a luxury to that family. to them, it is a necessity in raising their children as they see fit. agree or not, doesnt matter.

[Pithlet]

54. Private school is a luxury.

I wouldn't consider it irrelevant.

[Luminous Animal]

67. So is it. People who live and work and have expectations to own a house

and send their kids to a good school... you know, living a middle class life, are now supposed to suck it up? My mother used to drive school bus in an inner city district that made many sacrifices to send their kids to parochial schools. They didn't see that sacrifice as a luxury but, rather, a necessity.

My husband and I made many sacrifices to home school our daughter. It cost us around $30,000 a year income when she was between the age of 1-14.

[Pithlet]

69. Private school is not a necessity. I'm sorry, but it isn't.

I went to a city school in Flint. I more than survived. I did pretty well for myself. So did others I know. I think those who saw such things as a necessity are suckers, personally, but that's my opinion and I think we're getting away from the point some are making, whch is that those who could actually make that "sacrifice" aren't struggling. If you can send your kids to private school, then you aren't struggling. Those who are struggling? Can't do it. You might not be rich. But you aren't struggling. There are better spokespeople to implore Obama than people who send their kids to private school. People who think Obama is doing such an awful job? Maybe they should talk people who are actually struggling into talking to him. Those are the people he should be listening to. Because the woman in the OP's thread? Her story just isn't all that compelling.

[Luminous Animal]

70. So we are now only supposed to live on necessity alone? What happened to the American Dream?

[Pithlet]

71. No. Because I didn't say that, did I?

My point is you aren't struggling if you can afford it. Where did I say one shouldn't do it if they can? Point it out, please! I, myself, have lots of stuff that aren't necessities. They're great. i enjoy them all, thoroughly. But I'm also not claiming to be struggling, either. Edited to tone it down.

[Luminous Animal]

72. Obviously, the middle class life that they lived is now under stress. Middle class.

We aren't supposed to struggle. We are supposed to be able to maintain a middle class life. When that slips, then yes, families will start to struggle. So yes, they may have to give up the private school.

But why?

[Pithlet]

74. If it were under stress, they wouldn't have two kids in private school.

I'm not buying it. ETA look, you wont' find a bigger champion for the middle class than I. But being able to afford to send two kids to private school isn't cheap. If they were truly struggling, or in danger of struggling, they wouldn't have two kids in private school. She didn't say they were pulling them out. She didn't use the past tense. She said "I have two kids in private school" That doesn't sit well. That doesn't sound like struggle at all.

[Luminous Animal]

75. I know quite a few people who send their kids to private schools and their family

income is no more that $60,000 - $65,000 a year. In San Francisco where rent is for a family is at least $24,000 a year.

People figure it out if it important to them.

And yes, she didn't say she was pulling them out. She said that she'd rather eat hotdogs and beans than do that. That is, she is willing to make sacrifices to the bitter end.

Her struggle is this:

I've served my country.
I've raised my family.
I've worked to live the American Dream. (That is, I have expectations of providing for my family a better life than I had.)

As a result,

That better life is now crumbling for me and my family to the point that we now have to struggle in order to provide that better life.

Now, in an imaginary world because we don't know and we won't know, she may have to pull her kids from private school and her family might struggle less but what good would that do? What part of that negates that she did the right thing to give her family a good life but that good life is receding from her reach?

[Pithlet]

76. Yes. People figure out what is important to them. Nothing wrong with that.

But they aren't struggling if they can do it. Oh. Their income is no more than 60,000-65,000 a year? Well yes. They're not rich. I never claimed they were. But they're not poor. My point. if your choice is send the kids to private school and eat beans and hot dots, or send them to public school and eat regular fare? You're not struggling. You're making a choice. Big difference.

Because see? There are people? Who eat hot dogs and beans no matter what. And they don't have the option to send their kids to private school. Or stay home and homeschool them. Get it? And see, I don't like the former who pretend they're the latter to make a political point. That's crappy.

[seabeyond]

77. so what? nt

[WinkyDink]

79. You miss the point: SHE IS COMPLAINING. WHY??

[GreenArrow]

33. "most of them don't have kids in private school."

The President does, and I'd wager the majority of the clueless fucks on Capitol Hill do as well.

Perhaps the family made some sacrifices to send their kid to private school. I know my boss does. He works two jobs, plus his wife works full time in order to send their son to private school. I have two kids, and I too will be sending them to private school, no matter what sacrifices it costs me personally. I ain't rich. I'm not a big fan of the rich. But I'm not going to come down on this lady for wanting to send her kids to private school. Would it be different if her complaint involved putting her kids through college?


Public schools are great, in theory. In reality, there is very little to be done that will improve our public schools, that the people of this nation are willing or able to do, and the current clown in charge is trying to make them even worse.

I think the woman's complaint was that she and her husband had worked very hard to get to the point where they were able to send their kids to a private school, where they were able to get to a point where they were starting to live the "American Dream" and now the rug has been pulled out from underneath them. Naturally, that's frustrating and unsettling to them, as it would be to any of us. The death of the "American Dream": that's what her complaint is about.

[vi5]

39. It's about choices.....

I'm not against private school. I went to private school. But it was a luxury my parents could afford. That's the problem. The clueless fucks on capital hill as you call them are listening to too many people like this who view themselves as getting hit hard because they can't afford to send their kids to private school AND do other nice things. The option of private school isn't even on the table for them. And no it really wouldn't be different if her complaint involved putting her kid through college although in that situation there is no other alternative to a paid university, since even state schools have tuition. But that is still a choice, and a choice that a lot of people don't have.

My point is that these clueless fucks should be listening more to growing number of people who can't afford to send their kids to private school and also can't afford to eat right or feed their kids or whatever other basics these people take for granted.

I agree that we are all feeling some bit of pinch. And like I said, she has me on 99% of what she is saying and I agree about the death of the American dream. But the bit about private schools made it clear that she was still one of the ones who still has the luxury of making such choices, rather than the far too many people who have had horrible choices made for them.

[seabeyond]

42. sure, she is still in the place of making choice

i worked hard, a lot of years to get in the place to save for kids college and our retirement. we were on the right track. last three years, fuck the saving. it is now, thankful i can buy the things i need. but no saving

it isnt a little thing to let go of the saving. after all, at some time, that money is going to be needed.

we can dismiss it, but it is a reality for many.

no one is asking for "sympathy" god forbid..... but it is a reality to be acknowledged.

[GreenArrow]

48. I see your point.

It is about choices, and a great deal of the frustration in my post stems from the choices that our so-called "leaders" continue to make. Their priorities and the solutions they offer are backwards, detrimental and often actively inflame the problems they are supposed to be solving.

Shit, I just don't know whether it's worse to be disillusioned or to never have been under any illusions at all. Many of the people who have had horrible choices made for them never have the luxury of hoping that things will be much better. Or maybe hope is their luxury, no matter how ephemeral, while those that have -- to a certain degree -- the luxury of making their own choices, now get to stand and watch in despair as everything they worked for crumbles around them.

[Pithlet]

73. Well, apparently pointing out that it's expensive and that not everyone can afford it

is now considering hating on it. Good grief.

[seabeyond]

40. btw greenarrow

we could have a conversation private vs public. adn i like your post... agreed

i had mine in private and switched to public. i am really happy with public. and i am happy because of the academics. they are better than private academic. school is easy for kids. so they have to be challenged. they do pre AP and AP courses.

i am all for your choice of private. but it is not a given as "best" either

[GreenArrow]

49. Sure, we'll talk education in one of the education threads.

I don't want to hijack this one.

[hack89]

53. I know many working class people who sacrifice

to send their kids to private school. How do parents turn schools around when they have work 60 hours a week to ensure a better live for their family.

[kiranon]

17. The economy has changed for all Americans and what was in the

past may never come again. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the financial institutions pulling all the money out of the system have fundamentally changed what can be in this country for a long time to come. Did the Republicans intend to do this? I think they did while blaming it on the Democrats and Obama. Democrats should praise the President for his efforts. He didn't have alot to work with and if the Republicans are put back in power they will just finish us all off and go on with their global fortune hunting with their corporate sponsors. No one can bring back those jobs or create new ones unless those jobs are public infrastructure type jobs that the government pays for. And, what are the chances the Republicans will agree to that. I don't like where this country is headed but the only way out is through difficult times and sticking with the Democrats to help us through. Will our kids get to go to private schools? Maybe not. Will the parents be back to beans and hot dogs to pay for things that used to be easy to pay for - probably. My parents went through the Great Depression and knew hard times. Hard times are here and we can pull through but it won't look like it did before - and for some it may never look like it did before. Reality is not kind to some generations. I think we are in an unkind era and it will only be worse if the Republicans get back in power.

[JI7]

22. Beans and Rice would probably be cheaper and better than Hot Dogs and Beans

she could probably save a lot by sending the kids to public school instead of private also

[JNelson6563]

23. Private schools are an expensive luxury.

I sure wish I had it so bad that I could afford private schools and beans & hot dogs.

Poor dear, probably can't pick up a bag from Hermes this season either. :cry:

Julie

[JI7]

24. i bet she is one of those who is upset at Govt spending

i read in one thread some thought he was being too tough on wall street.

i bet most who are upset at him are these types. of course if they want to come on DU they have to pretend it's because he isn't liberal enough .

[BlueCheese]

34. Doubt it.

She said she's a veteran and currently works with veterans.

[dkf]

25. I don't think you understand her question at all.

She is not asking about her near term situation so much as the possibility our economy will collapse further, devastating her savings and investments and leaving us all in dire straits. She has no confidence in the future of this economy.

And saving private school tuition will mean nothing if this system collapses.

[GreenArrow]

35. Precisely. n/t

.

[pennylane100]

47. I am sorry but there was something a little strange about her question and the way she phrased it.

Being a fairly well placed member of the middle class (that is how she came across to me) should not cause so much anxiety in one's life. A more appropriate concern would be for those who are less well off than she appeared to be.

[dkf]

50. People only feel well off because they think their savings and investments are worth something

If they aren't they have the same assets as any other poor person.

[Skittles]

52. there's a lot of fear out there

those of us who have not lost it all know people who have - and know deep down it very well can happen to them

[Pithlet]

57. Exactly. If she had framed it as concern for the state of affairs in general, I'd see it.

But when she focused on concern for the welfare of her family, and then brought up the double private school tuition? Please. I've read all the protests in this thread, but I don't buy it. As expensive as that is, no one is even close to struggling who can afford that. And it doesn't even compare to college, which doesn't have a free alternative for everyone and lasts only 4 years and parents have time to prepare and save for for 18 years. I think she's a conservative plant.

[Pithlet]

55. If I were that concerned I'd be saving every penny.

Otherwise it rings false. I'm with the OP all the way. And private school, particularly two tuitions worth, is an enormous extravagance. It's fine if you can afford it. If you think you're at beans and franks' door? Forget it.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lunatica]

29. Evidently a lot of people who we would say are well off are scared too

They can see the writing on the wall too. They just have further to fall right now. But they feel they're losing ground.

I'm glad she asked him the question. One doesn't have to be on the verge of homelessness to worry.

[FrenchieCat]

30. Personally I was more worried about every one of her questions

before Obama took over, 19 months ago.

[dkf]

51. Yes. After the stock market crash people believe the value of savings may be fleeting.

The feeling of doom is palpable.

[flvegan]

45. I love DU.

Bitching about the private school aspect without knowing the actual story. If the kids were in college, non-ivy league schools and she was complaining that the family were having trouble paying the way this would be a different form of outrage.

Still optional, kids.

[Hello_Kitty]

46. Yep. eom

[Winston Wolf]

62. Plus (Insert Absurdly Large Number Of Your Choice Here)

[EFerrari]

65. This is why we can't have nice things.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp_6k-mdNT0We

[TexasObserver]

56. Hers is a theme that must be addressed.

Her statement and question went to the heart of how many Americans feel. In a nutshell, they feel our party has not delivered on its promises, a point of view many of us share.

I never expected the president to transform foreign policy and the economy in two years, but I expected him to do considerably more than he has. He let the for-profit health care industry dictate terms on health care. He's kept in the place the same people in the Pentagon who did so terribly under Bush. He's failed to break with Bush policies on repression of citizens' rights.

The president should sit down alone in his office and play her statement over and over on his TV, until he gets it. His answer suggests he still doesn't get it. His leadership is the issue in the election. If we lose a house of congress, it will be due to many who voted for him in 2008 lacking confidence in our party to get things done as promised.

[Socal31]

58. Maybe she doesn't have an unlimited minutes/text shared plan.

Maybe she doesn't have a 60 inch flat-screen and two HD DVRs recording House and Grey's Anatomy every week.

Maybe she doesn't take her family out to Chilis twice a month.

Not taking her seriously because she chooses to put her children in a private school...sad. There are almost some "Uncle Tom" overtones in this thread that I am personally disturbed by.

[Pithlet]

59. There are plenty of people who don't buy all those things

And yet still can't spend tens of thousands of dollars a year to send their kids to private school. Millions, in fact.

[Winston Wolf]

64. Yes, How Dare She...

...want the best for her children. Because educating your children in the way you see fit is soooo luxurious. What a middle class whiner indeed.

I guess she should be approaching the need to declare bankruptcy before she has the "right" to be upset concerning the current situation.

[ecstatic]

78. my SO thinks she was a GOP plant

and "quite frankly" I agree with him.

ETA: Now she admits she was lying about not having a credit card on Tweety. :eyes:

[Odin2005]

80. WTF, people are jumping on her because her kids go to a private school?

[TNLib]

81. I think her point is she is going back wards economically speaking

Not really that different from what most American's are going through. We have to work harder just to maintain what we have and that's if we're lucky.

This lady is still able to have a middle class life style but knows she is going back wards economically and will probably have decrease her life style in some way. I think she asked a very important question and Obama didn't have answers in fact he doesn't seem to have a clue of what the middle class is going through right now.