Some reactions to Oprah's show today with the education "reformers".

[madfloridian]

Today Oprah used her power to influence views of public education and public school teachers. She had 3 of the major "reformers" on her show...Bill Gates, Davis Guggenheim, and Michelle Rhee.

There was no one giving an opposing point of view. There was a huge amount of reaction to the show at her website.

The Shocking State of our Schools


From the Oprah website. From left to right..Guggenheim, Gates, and Rhee

There is some discussion from each of them at the link. I am going to quote her words about Michelle Rhee...Oprah called her a "warrior woman."

Michelle says we can trace the problems back to an entirely different group of educators. "The reality is that we have some ineffective teachers, some bad teachers, who are in classrooms every day who are doing a disservice to our children," she says. "The data shows if (children) have three highly effective teachers in a row versus three ineffective teachers in a row, it can literally change their life trajectory."

Therefore, Michelle has dedicated her superintendency to turning the system on its head by closing dozens of failing schools and firing more than 1,000 ineffective educators. In the Learning Matters documentary series, footage from an actual firing shows just how serious Michelle is.

Oprah calls her "a warrior woman," but Michelle's actions have created a firestorm in the world of education. Still, Michelle remains committed to identifying and removing bad teachers. She even fired the principal at her own daughters' school.

Here are some comments from her website:

Education Conversation

It is amazing to me that in a show about education, there was not one voice of a teacher represented. Everyone on the stage including Oprah, blamed "bad" teachers yet we never heard from such a person and were left with the feeling that all of these individuals in the classrooms are bad teachers. How about mentioning No Child Left Behind and the crippling effect it has had on classrooms and what is taught. If you really want to make a difference have a town hall meeting of teachers to at least get the other side and find out some of the challenges we face every day just trying to do our jobs. I cannot understand how it is simply the teachers who need to be blamed. If we have a real crisis then there is plenty of blame to go around, however today's show put it squarely on the backs of teachers.
Posted: Mon 9/20/2010 9:17 PM


Posted: Mon 9/20/2010 9:15 PM
I am shocked that there is this much blame on teachers. Have you looked at the home life? Have you even stepped inside a classroom where children are defiant, and these teachers are working 12 hours a day to help their students. You take your head out of the sand, and start actually seeing what goes on in the classroom. This show made me so sad. You have no idea how hard it is for a teacher these days. Let's start with the parents.


Posted: Mon 9/20/2010 9:45 PM
Oprah, Todays show undid all of the goodwill you have done for teachers over the 25 years of production. What other group of hard-working people have been subjected to an hour long bashing as you gave teachers today? Your pat comment about all the good teachers at the beginning of your show was pathetic. The remainder of the show was just a stream of half truths and opinion without facts. To put the blame of poor performing schools squarely on the backs of those who are in the trenches trying their best with little public and parental support was just so mean. I would have expected such a performance from Fox News, just shocked it was from you. Shame!


Posted: Mon 9/20/2010 9:45 PM
I am thoroughly sickened and extremely disheartened by todays show and all the news and press surrounding this movie, Waiting for Superman. Teachers control classrooms, but teachers and teachers unions do NOT control our countrys educational system. Our educational system is currently controlled mainly by politicians, but also by our society as a whole. It is a slap in the face to teachers like myself who dedicate their lives to the children in this country that so many people would so readily jump on the bandwagon to condemn us. The problem is not teachers, or teachers unions, or public schools. The problem is that our society as a whole (from politicians, to parents, to community members) has failed to place value in our educational system and our teachers

There appear to be 84 pages of comments...but it is really hard to navigate. Very slow loading.

I found a couple more comments that were made at the Oprah site, but posted as well on Schools Matter blog.

The blogger's remarks:

"If you had put on this show before the voters in DC repudiated the Gates-Walton-Broad plan for America's schools, it might have had the desired impact. As it is, Oprah looks and sounds the corporate parrot that she is, sadly. So much disinformation, where to start? You guys need to look up tenure to see what it is. Clue: it is not guaranteed employment for life, but, rather, is a due process protection to employees with collective bargaining agreements--something I know that Bill and Oprah and Michelle do not abide by.

...."
Posted: Mon 9/20/2010 3:56 PM

"Youngteacher : Dear Oprah, I have never been so frustrated with a topic that you have showcased. I am a teacher and I have first hand experience in the public school systems you call poor. I am 23 years of age with a Masters degree in Social Studies Secondary Education. I have worked in public schools with diverse demographics both racially and economically. These schools don't have lazy or unqualified teacher. They have the technology that is up to date and every student has a textbook in good condition. Oprah you have let down me and so many others by making all public school teachers look lazy and uneducated. You make young teachers want to stay away from the public school system for fear of being categorized as an unfit teacher. I am hurt and very let down that you choose to praise Charter School teachers only. Because I am a good teacher I'm going to keep on changing he minds and lives of young people despite what you showcased today."

And at least Oprah puts her money where her mouth is. She donated one million to a charter school in Philadelphia.

Oprah gives $1 million to Phila. charter school

U.S. Education Secretary Arne Duncan has visited one of Philadelphia Mastery Charter Schools' campuses to praise the nonprofit for successfully turning around once-troubled middle schools.

In July, President Obama gave Mastery a shout-out for dramatically boosting test scores and curbing school violence. What could top that?

Oprah. And $1 million bucks. Not only is the TV diva scheduled to recognize Mastery for outstanding work educating Philadelphia students during today's show, she will give Mastery the $1 million grant

The Oprah show, which was taped earlier, will include video clips from Mastery's schools. Scott Gordon, Mastery's founder and chief executive officer, and Kelli Seaton, principal of Mastery's Pickett campus in Germantown, appear on the show.

It is so hard to see the money and power that is being put into the new assault on public education that started in 2008. It is the Bush plan for education coming to fruition under a Democratic administration.

[Dawson Leery]

1. I never cared for Oprah.

[Skittles]

10. I have always been able to see right through her

it ain't pretty

[Dawson Leery]

12. She is all ego and in the game for herself.

Oprah uses talking points which fail to explain the complexity of the issue at hand.

[Skittles]

46. CORRECT

even her charity efforts are all about her :thumbsdown:

[elehhhhna]

77. DING DING YOU NAILED IT! Oprah's school in Africa is a shambles, btw...

so how she thinks she's an expert on education is a big mystery.

[devilgrrl]

130. I always thought she was full of shit too.

We're talking even before she had a show of her own.

[xxqqqzme]

201. I had respect for her once. When she pimped

for steroid boy during the California recall I wrote her because I was outraged. I asked if she planned to give equal time to Gray & Judy Davis because I would not watch her show again until she did. She didn't & I don't. She defended her pimpness by saying Maria was a friend - well OK, but Maria Shriver wasn't hoping to be governor.

[valerief]

168. She's just another gazillionaire douche. nt

[zenprole]

228. Shameful but predictable

Oprah has always been a tool -- milquetoasty, possibly-liberal, careerist slime.
It's no wonder she got behind Obama, and now she's cheerleading for that fascist Michelle Rhee.

[Goblinmonger]

2. Well, if Oprah says it, it must be true.

There is a whole world of educational leaders out there that could have called bullshit on that trio.

[blondeatlast]

3. Shame, shame on Oprah. But honestly, is she on anyone's side but her own?

Of course not.

[pinboy3niner]

29. I never watch her, but I'm floored that her 'discussion' presents only one side

This strikes me as propaganda, not discussion.

:hi:

[proud2BlibKansan]

36. What do you expect from the woman who gave us Dr Phil?

:)

[pinboy3niner]

43. LOL! Yeah, I should have known.

:Hitting my head on that brick wall:

:hi:

[EFerrari]

63. LOL

:rofl:

[Dr.Phool]

151. That guy is a cheap imposter!

Accept no substitutions!

Real, certified, Dr. Phool only.

[proud2BlibKansan]

153. LOL

[peace frog]

156. Right on

At least this is her last season. Too bad it couldn't have ended before this shameful exhibition.

[swilton]

193. She not only gave 'us' Dr. Phil

She gave us Obama -
Btw - never have watched Oprah for this very reason

[MrMickeysMom]

230. I'm not sure if she's on anyone side, but look...

If people like Oprah (who I had called Okra, but I won't at this point because some idiot here thinks that instead of making fun of her name, I must be a freeper) think they are doing good and have a popular show, well then, by all means, have at it. I have always wished it to be successful in the past, mainly cause my mom watched it.

But, when the Obama endorsement basically turned the election (and I think largely it did) I believe she was more inclined to stop thinking Tom Cruise type of celebrity and go more with Obama insider celebrity.

Having branded herself and believed in what she was selling, this thing has turned into a bad joke that ends up hurting a lot of people who have for centuries tried to make teaching a nobel profession that is not only a psychological natural science, but a field of BEST practices.

She's turned education into the latest book club, and it's a damn shame.

I'm not sure she even realizes it, but shame on her for this illusion of knowledge over how we should educate critical thinkers of the future. When it all falls on its' head, I'm sure she'll write a book during a wealth of retirement.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

4. Reminds me of the Iraq war propaganda. nt

[Dawson Leery]

7. +1

Oprah played right along with Bush's lies.

[madfloridian]

8. You are exactly right. There was no way to fight back....

the media propaganda was too powerful. And the few Dems who did speak out against it were soon taken down.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

14. The only show of hers that I ever watched was when she scolded an

audience member who saw through the bullshit she was trying to sell.

[raccoon]

97. Do tell! I'd like to hear more about this. Is it on youtube? nt

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

100. I found a clip of the show I was referring to. But I must also correct myself.

In finding this clip. I also found out that she had some peace activists in 2 of her shows after this one aired (before the war started).

http://www.correntewire.com/oprah_you_go_to_war_girl

[Starry Messenger]

11. Thank you.

Exactly.

[blondeatlast]

13. Indeed. nt

[leftstreet]

44. An excellent comparison n/t

[mediaman007]

5. Thanks for putting this together.

Sadly, public school teachers have become the "whipping boy" for our society. Yet, everyone else is an expert.

[madfloridian]

25. I am glad I am retired, but it is painful to watch.

Our Democrats are enabling these attacks on teachers.

[mediaman007]

31. I retired last June after 41 years in elementary schools.

I will continue to support the teachers and their unions.

[gratuitous]

6. Oprah and the Cardinal Rule

No conversation about us without us.

Would Oprah do a show on inner city gang violence with an all-white panel of suburbanites?

Methinks thee fucked up, First Lady of Television.

[QC]

9. Oprah continues to represent just about everything that is wrong with American culture.

Is there any subject that this preening dilettante will not distort and oversimplify for her legions of brainwashed cultists?

[cleanhippie]

15. Are you surprised? Oprah is responsible for a majority of the anti-vaccine movement

due to her giving McCarthy, her doctor and her lawyer unopposed airtime and legitimacy.

Oprah is no friend to reason, logic or science.

[alp227]

19. +1

Oprah=big factor in American anti-intellectualism and lack of rational thought. Not surprised to see her gushing with her fellow big wealthy corporate pals in the privatisation movement.

[blondeatlast]

40. +1. nt

[MedicalAdmin]

110. I mostly agree with you.

Although I must tell you that our clinic supports and recommends a modified schedule of vaccines in order to maximize both their effectiveness and their safety.

It's not, according to my medical director, a black and white issue because patients are not statistics and should be treated individually rather than as cattle in a vaccine chute.

But Oprah is crap on tons of issues. She is opinion, not news.

[cleanhippie]

116. We are in agreement.

I would like to know, on what basis does your "clinic supports and recommends a modified schedule of vaccines in order to maximize both their effectiveness and their safety."?

I am not questioning you, I just want to know why your clinic takes this position.

[molly77]

123. Vaccines are nasty.

[cleanhippie]

127. Uh, ok. Thanks for that.

I guess the debate is over. Your proclamation is all I need to hear.

[proud2BlibKansan]

161. Polio is deadly

[KansDem]

148. "Oprah is no friend to reason, logic or science."

I've never watched Oprah so I really don't know that much about her, but I do remember reading an article a couple of years ago that placed Oprah in with the worse interviewers on TV at the time.

The author pointed out that she often has whack jobs on and gives them credibility by simply being on her show, even though they spew ridiculous theories and claims.

I wish I could find that article!

[Tyrone Slothrop]

165. She's also mostly responsible for the success of The Secret n/t

[defendandprotect]

16. And so many people buy this "Gates-do gooder" theory ... disgusting -- !!!

[Canuckistanian]

17. Nice, cozy one-sided "debate"

Rhee is on her way OUT with her husband's loss in DC. And she doesn't seem to be ingratiating herself with DC parents or school boards.

Unless Oprah even attempts an alternate view, I'm done with her.

[chervilant]

74. Well,

I've been done with her since her filthy lucre became more important than her advocacy.

[griffi94]

18. here's a link

http://www.texasteacherlaw.com/2010/09/teachers-can-be-fired-oprah.html

[madfloridian]

26. Wow, great link. So glad to see people speaking up.

[nxylas]

80. Here's another (from The Onion)

http://www.theonion.com/articles/oprahs-african-school-forced-to-cut-oprahmatics-20,2707/

[dkf]

20. Maybe the point is that it takes an exceptionally talented human being to become a great teacher.

And that unless you are part of the elite you aren't going to be effective enough to do the job we need.

Hey I agree that many parents suck and that kids aren't disciplined. That is why you can't take the average Joe/Jane and turn them into a good teacher. They simply don't have the charisma, leadership and respect it takes to get these unruly students to perform as needed.

[Radical Activist]

23. Yep.

And the profession needs to pay something closer to what the job is worth.

[dkf]

30. That is why this is truly a huge commitment and undertaking.

I doubt many people understand what will be asked of them if we want this to succeed. Turning the teaching profession into a high status occupation equivalent to doctors won't be cheap.

[madfloridian]

34. That is not at all what they intend to do. The reformers want to do it on the cheap.

They are putting down teachers and making the tests harder and harder....so they can get their privatization done in hurry.

And that means cheaper teachers.

[dkf]

39. I thought they were bonusing teachers up to $150,000?

I was pretty floored.

[madfloridian]

42. Those were supposed to be privately funded...

which would give the foundations control over who was considered a good teacher.

However, I hear they found another way...I can't find out where they got the money from the budget.

That is in DC only as far as I know, and appears dependent on Rhee's remaining. Not likely since Fenty lost.

[dkf]

55. I don't mind if some foundation told me I was a good teacher and bonused me up to $150k :)

I can see where that would bias teachers though.

[MedicalAdmin]

113. Yup - up to $150,000

But with lots of strings attached and with private corporations calling the shots.

What they are doing, IMHO, is stacking the deck for the next few years so that they can cherry pick teachers, students and situations to justify their agenda.

[Hannah Bell]

129. yep. classic ruling-class strategy; buy off a narrow slice of the workforce to

enforce labor discipline on the rest.

[Hannah Bell]

49. the usual talking point-hurlers heard from.

[blondeatlast]

56. +1. nt

[Radical Activist]

60. Stating that teachers should be paid more is a talking point?

I guess it is but I'm surprised it's one that you're insulting me for. You oppose better pay for teachers now?

[Hannah Bell]

70. i misread you then. but that scenario ain't happening under school deform for anyone but a narrow

slice of collaborationists.

[madfloridian]

27. There are many of us who taught or are teaching who were just that!!

"Exceptionally talented human beings" as you say who love and care about we consider the bottom line....the kids.

The "reformers" care about their own effing bottom line...profit.

[dkf]

37. And doesn't every kid deserve a madfloridian?

We can't give them great parents. What we can do is make sure we give them a teacher who inspires a thirst and excitement for learning. And it is the nurturing of a curious and fertile mind that will create the innovations and economy of the future.

[Umbral]

54. And a motivated student can learn from anyone.

This 'call to greatness' is nothing but a backhanded acquiescence to the meme that educators are solely responsible for state of the US education system.

[ibegurpard]

57. this is the truth that is overlooked

teachers alone cannot motivate students.
And what these "reformers" are trying to do is not in the interest of a good education. It is to get control of the schools.

[CoffeeCat]

83. So, what is the end goal?

People say they want to privatize schools. What will that look like? How
could our schools be run without tax dollars? Parents will pay tuition for
their kids to attend school and that will pay for everything?

I don't get their goal or how their vision would function.

How could it EVER be equitable? Affluent suburbs would have great schools
and poor communities would have nothing.

I must be missing something.

[MedicalAdmin]

117. Schools won't be run without tax dollars.

They will be plenty of tax dollars, they will just be filtered through middle men. The model they are shooting for is health insurance companies. Talk about diving for the bottom of the barrel.

Here is what will happen. The private companies will run the schools for a fee and an eye on the bottom line. If they follow the health insurance company model then they will skim 27% on average off the top for administrative costs such as bloated executive salaries, bonuses, and the hiring of relatives and friends in do nothing jobs. Did you know that there is already a publically funded charter school in Detroit being run by Walmart? Do you want your kids, or any kids, being taught by a place like that.

Let me ask you, what kind of teacher will work at a place where there is no union, no job security, low pay, and you are part time? We won't be attracting the best and brightest.

As for your question about parents paying tuition to attend schools, here is what will happen. Those who can afford "enrichment" classes (for an extra fee) or better private schools will pay for it. This will amount to another way for the private companies, who will be sucking at the public tit already, to get even more of your money. Want your kid to have the best education? We take Visa, Mastercard, or a second mortgage from your house.

And it would NEVER be equitable because it is designed to NEVER be equitable. They don't want equality. They want your kids to be the slaves of their kids.

[molly77]

124. My son had a sixth grade teacher

who read aloud to her class. He had never been too interested in books despite having them around and my reading to him during his childhood.

He graduated with an English degree..honor student. That teacher changed his life.

[chervilant]

78. Unruly Students?

We humans are hard-wired to be curious and avid learners. I find it disheartening that our nation has perverted that intrinsic drive.

Do you wonder what causes some students to be 'unruly'? Do you truly believe that teachers should get 'students to perform as needed'? Or, were you being sarcastic?

We teachers tend to be average people. We tend to recognize that our children are our most precious asset. We typically devote our entire beings to helping our students succeed in school, so that they can pursue whatever dreams they have of their futures.

This push to vilify 'bad teachers' and make these unfortunates the reason why public education is failing our children is merely the approach du jour of the corporatists who are determined to privatize education. I hope they fail. And, if we are to honestly pursue improving public education, we'd better become a child-centric society.

I'm not holding my breath...

[CoffeeCat]

84. And where are all of these bad teachers?

My children are in 4th and 5th grade. We're almost through elementary
school. I'm involved in PTO and know many other moms in our community
with kids in school. We talk education frequently.

I've never heard anyone complain about a horrible, rotten teacher. EVER.

We all love our kids' teachers. Every single teacher that my children
have had, has been wonderful, dedicated, professional--and they have impacted
my child's life positively. A few have helped them so much--that I don't know
where my kids would be, if their influence had not been in their lives!

There are some teachers that we have liked more than others--but where are all
of these incompetent failures who are destroying our entire education system?

Has anyone else had a teacher THAT bad?

As a very involved mom who knows hundreds of other moms with kids in school--I've
NEVER heard of a teacher who is that bad.

I'm not saying they don't exist, but if they do--they are rare--and they certainly
aren't solely responsible for the entire downfall of our education system.

[wtmusic]

108. Here's one

with the reason why he's still teaching.

"The eighth-grade boy held out his wrists for teacher Carlos Polanco to see.

He had just explained to Polanco and his history classmates at Virgil Middle School in Koreatown why he had been absent: He had been in the hospital after an attempt at suicide.

Polanco looked at the cuts and said they 'were weak,' according to witness accounts in documents filed with the state. "Carve deeper next time," he was said to have told the boy.

'Look,' Polanco allegedly said, 'you can't even kill yourself.'"

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/may/03/local/me-teachers3

[chervilant]

121. OMG!

You again?!?

Let's put aside for a moment your use of yet another biased source. From that text:

Building a case for dismissal is so time-consuming, costly and draining for principals and administrators that many say they don't make the effort except in the most egregious cases.

Is that tiny violins I hear?

Oh, woe! Poor wee principals and administrators! So, they're not doing the job they're mandated to perform--for the good of their students--because it's so 'time-consuming and draining'?!? Not to mention costly!?

You need to go and troll on some other site. You are so busted here.

[MedicalAdmin]

122. authority = responsibility

Those with the authority are those with the responsibility. In your story there is a teacher who needs to be fired. Speaking as a former school board member who advised on hiring / firing committees it really isn't that hard even with tenure.

The principals who are not removing this teacher are failing at their jobs. They have the authority. They can hire and fire. That they continue to let this man teach is the failure. They just don't want to do their jobs.

And maybe part of the problem is that some principals are not given the administrative help that a McDonalds manager gets and they have a LOT more responsibility.


Where does the buck stop at schools. It isn't the teachers.

[wtmusic]

128. Did you read the article?

This monster was allowed to stay in the classroom by virtue of a technicality negotiated with the L.A. teachers' union (UTLA), not by any lack of action on the part of administrators:

"...L.A. Unified administrators began firing proceedings before giving him the required 45 days' "notice of unprofessional conduct" -- one factor in the commission's decision to overturn his firing."

It's virtually impossible to fire a LAUSD teacher - it costs $250-$500K and appeals can take 18 months. That's why an average of 11 out of 43,000 are fired annually.

It's a miracle the student didn't kill himself.

[chervilant]

118. And

your voice and the voices of parents like you might help debunk this 'bad teacher' meme. I hope more people will come forward in defense of the good, dedicated teachers that predominate in public education.

[dkf]

197. If teachers are waiting for parents to up their game then we might as well wait for Godot.

The only thing government can change is the teachers. Everything else is out of their hands.

But if I am wrong on this you can tell me what government should do to create better parents.

[cleanhippie]

82. Disagree!!!!

They simply don't have the charisma, leadership and respect it takes to get these unruly students to perform as needed.



Thats NOT the teachers job, thats the job of the PARENTS.

[Radical Activist]

21. "tune in to The Oprah Show on Friday, September 24, to watch a follow-up with parents and teachers"

It sounds like the complaints about having no teachers are a little overdramatic, much as the claim that it's an attack on all teachers.


"Everybody knows I love good teachers, and there are so many thousands of you—great ones—in this country," Oprah says. "So we're not talking about you if you are a good teacher."

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. Why no teachers on today's show?

It sounds like it was just an attack job. What other professions has Oprah attacked like this? Did she do a show on doctors and how they have ruined medicine? Lawyers and how they have screwed clients? I don't think so.

[Radical Activist]

33. I bet teachers get more time by having an entire show

dedicated to teachers and parents.

"It sounds like it was just an attack job."

So you didn't see the show. Me either.

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. No I didn't see it. I was teaching school.

Doing my best to give Oprah ammo for a new show. LOL

[griffi94]

41. one of the more dishonest

points that was made was by michelle rhee.
she cited an example of a bad teacher who fell asllep in class and had gotten into
a screaming match with some parents at a parent teacher meeting, and several other examples.

the teacher had been in the classroom for 10 years, well a couple of years ago the teacher was finally terminated, and she contested it and when it went to the hearing she was reinstated as a teacher but with a suspenson. at the hearing it was determined that termination was excessive for the particular reasons given for termination (they never said what she was finally terminated for)

anyway, since her reinstatement she committed another offence and was terminated.

the dishonest part is that michelle rhee said that it had taken 10 years to fire her, she was actually removed from the classroom about 18 months after the termination that was overturned.

michelle rhee made it sound like they district had been trying to remove her for 10 years and hadn't been able to.

oprah sat there with a look of disbelief and said how outrageous it was.

total misleading bullshit.

[proud2BlibKansan]

47. So Rhee wasn't even capable of getting this horrible teacher fired?

That says more about her administrative abilities than it says about the teacher.

[griffi94]

52. she did get her fired

but the teacher got to file her grievance first and the process ran its course.

the whole show was slanted and at times it contradicted itself.

rhee was beating on the talkingpoint that teachers unions kept bad teachers from being fired while
at the same time taking credit for having fired over 1000 teachers & administraters.

[Hissyspit]

69. Now stop with that LOGIC stuff.

This is the great Oprah. She doesn't need to use logic. She gives away cars and Australian vacations!

Actually, Oprah has done a lot of good, but she's in the sensationalism/outrage business for the most part.

[SwissTony]

214. Actually, Tourism Australia is paying for Oprah, her staff

and 300+ audience members to come to Australia. So, it's not Oprah being generous. It's estimated that it's going to cost $A1.8 million. Tourism Australia thinks it'll be worth it just for the publicity. The Aussie dollar is very high at the moment which is discouraging foreign tourists from coming here while the same factor is encouraging Australians to go overseas.Hopefully, Oprah will help reverse that trend.

[Divine Discontent]

22. Most people I know thinks she's obnoxious. Also, how nice of her to have NO opposing POV

big shock! she dare not be challenged! And no way would mr rich be upset with someone arguing a counterpoint!


blech!!!!


good post MF...

there's plenty of great public teachers out there, and just like the attack on the other social services provided by the various county, state & fed govt, from the post office to social security, these bastards are filthy rich and are not on OUR side...


wake up Oprah lovers...

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. Michelle Rhee fired her own daughters' principal?

This woman is a mother????

OMG :puke: Those poor girls. Their mother is a monster.

[democracy1st]

32. thanks mad K & R for later

[Hissyspit]

38. Bill Gates must have had some good teachers.

But all of a sudden most all of them suck. How simple a narrative.

Oprah has promoted all kinds of stupid shit on her show. She's bright in some ways but believes utter nonsense in many other instances.

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. He's a college dropout

So his teachers apparently weren't good enough to keep him in school.

Let's hope they were all eventually fired. :sarcasm:

[2Design]

51. yes that is why he dropped out of college because it was so good for him n/t

[Hissyspit]

67. I was talking about HIGH SCHOOL

and ELEMENTARY SCHOOL. Because that's what THEY are talking about.

College is another animal. Obviously. You can drop out of college and it still was good for you.

I didn't finish my second master's (for financial and health reasons), but I had EXCELLENT teachers and it was very good for me.

[Greyhound]

64. He had excellent teachers, he attended The Lakeside School,

a private school founded and funded by the Seattle elite to prepare the scions of wealth for, first the Ivy League, and then to take their rightful place as rulers of this nation.

None of these assholes are even talking about modeling American education on what his class has had forever.

[Hissyspit]

68. THANK YOU.

Has nothing to do with his dropping out of college to make megamillions.

[MedicalAdmin]

125. So throwing money at the problem works if you're rich?

Who'd u thunk it?

[Greyhound]

162. Yes well, you have throw a lot of money and then it has to be put to use

in effective ways. Things like getting a terminal and computer time "donated" to your school in 1968, a time when computers cost millions. This is the kind of thing you get when your Grandfather founded First Interstate Bank (IIRC).

You also get a completely different curriculum, one that teaches students how to learn rather than how to regurgitate propaganda.

I wish I could find it. There was an excellent book out about ten years ago that detailed the two American education systems. The one we get and the one the parasites get. This is the difference that is never, ever discussed in these so-called debates on education. There is no mystery at all about what works and what doesn't, they just know that if all of us were taught as they are, we wouldn't stand for their "entitlement".

"...but I’ll tell you what they don’t want . . . they don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that . . . that doesn’t help them. That’s against their interests. That’s right. They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table and think about how badly they’re getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fuckin' years ago. They don’t want that. You know what they want? They want obedient workers . . . Obedient workers, people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork. And just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it, and now they’re coming for your Social Security money." - George Carlin

[CoffeeCat]

87. I touched on this in another post...

Oprah is very enlightened when it comes to some issues, but I think she
is incredibly gullible and not-so-bright when it comes to other issues.

I think Oprah has been presented with a reality--by these corporatists who
want to privatize (and make billions from doing so) our schools.

So, they present to her this picture of suffering children--and blame the teachers
while offering the solution (privatization).

Oprah is buying it all hook, line and sinker. I think these corporatists are
totally taking advantage of her love of children and her concern for them. I
think she really does care about children. They are using her and trying to
use her influence with a very critical demographic (moms) to turn public
opinion.

They can't do this without the parents on board.

[Freddie Stubbs]

92. Yes, but it was at a private school:

http://timelines.com/1967/bill-gates-attends-lakeside-school

[Hannah Bell]

48. Oprah sucks the big one. Always has, always will. The reason she's the only black

talk show host in the majors is because she was chosen to be by the PTB.

[msanthrope]

96. Your "black talk show host in the majors" conspiracy wouldn't

involve the Bilderbergers, the Tri-Lateral Commission, and the World Bank, would it?


I think you misunderestimate the sheer vagaries of capitalism...

[Hannah Bell]

131. no. just chicago elites. i think you don't know what you're talking about.

[msanthrope]

143. Please, enlighten us all on which "chicago elites" you speak of.

Specifically, who?

[Hannah Bell]

147. you can get some clues here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7085958&mesg_id=7085958

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6460960&mesg_id=6460960

not that i actually think you're interested in anything but snark.

[msanthrope]

160. So International Harvester set Oprah and Pres. Obama on their thrones?

This is the kind of conspiracy nonsense normally posted on Free Republic.

I understand the Freeper reasons for assuming that successful African-Americans are merely tools of powerful elites, but I wonder why you would think so.

Your links merely list a lot of rich people and their foundations. Do have any actual evidence to back up your claims?

[Hannah Bell]

172. so the commercial club crowd doesn't run chicago, & mccormick/blair money isn't still big in the

mix?

i consider a list of the biggest political donors in chicago to be "evidence". you apparently want to label it "conspiracy theory".

whatever. par for the course.

but most people don't buy your schtick.

[2Design]

50. I like oprah but sometimes she is duped by glitz - I missed this show but expected it to be

an assault on education without the real problems being brought forth and into the light. Maybe it all has to be destroyed to rise from the ashes. What is and has been happening sucks .... but when the people with money have nothing else to do , they throw money at it and some get rich while the kids will suffer becoming robots for corporations and passing standardized tests -

This is a sham

No child left behind was horrendous but people don't realize it's biggest thing was to get the names of bodies to fight wars endlessly for the military complex. The propaganda continues and the population is being brainwashed into brown shirt corporate slave.

[MrMickeysMom]

53. My opinion of Okra went down over the past year

She misguides imagined power to be the heavy hitter for some of the worst ideas of reforms under the administration. Apparently she elevated herself to this station?

Okra honey, you can airbrush your magazine, but not the hearts and minds of education. Stop screwing with it and go back to being the other person you tried to be.

[msanthrope]

94. Why are you calling her "Okra?" n/t

[MrMickeysMom]

221. Because my husband does...

I might have corrected myself when I spelled it wrong the first time, but since she seriously pissed me off, I just let "okra" stay in my post.

My silly way of being pissed of at her. She seriously disappoints me.

[msanthrope]

226. "Okra" is a common term for Oprah Winfrey on Free Republic.

How nice of you to refer to an African-American woman as a food, commonly used in the South.

Do you hear that dogwhistle?

[MrMickeysMom]

229. Well, I don't read Free Republic, so how would I know that?

Honest to God, what an asinine thing to say...

That whistle you must be referring to is the one used to bate arguments. So, go start one with someone else, foolish person

Fitting name.... msanthrope

[Pisces]

58. Wow, most of the people posting sound like they did not even watch the show. I did and they were

very clear they were not talking about good teachers. They were also focused on inner city schools, I hightly doubt anyone on this board would send their kids to one of these problem schools.
What a bunch of naysayers.

Something has to be done, some people are doing it and many teachers feel threatened. Maybe everyone should watch the movie before commenting.

[madfloridian]

61. Oh, yes indeed. Teachers feel threatened...rightfully so.

This is a full-scale onslaught on teachers and their unions.

Teachers do not deserve this kind of crap being tossed at them.

The Democrats are angering a very large constituency who vote.

And no it sounds like they were trying to make all teachers sound like the problem.

[Pisces]

115. Why am I not surprised to see you all over this board with negative comments.

This is not an attack on you or teachers. Some rules of the unions are not working!!! Inner city schools are not working. Children are being lost. THis is about the children, not about you. Something
radical has to be done. Some people are trying to be the change for them. Why not spout your garbage at those graduating kids who are going to college because of the SEED program. THese kids
would be going nowhere without it.

Sorry, but you sound just like the teabaggers ( who want their country back). School is never going to be like it was, we need radical change in inner city schools now. Parents and environment are not
going to change, therefore we must radically change how these children are being taught. Taking them out of their environment and putting them in a boarding school environment is the only way as
far as I can tell. They need the support and structure that their parents can not provide.

[Name removed]

132. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MedicalAdmin]

133. Boarding schools? OMG - RU fucking kidding?

Wow. Because that is an idea that worked so well. http://www.amnestyusa.org/amnestynow/soulwound.html

Blaming teachers is a way to sweep under the carpet the problems that are facing the inner city (and now the middle class). The rich declared war and they are winning. And they are still succeeding in getting us to argue about shit that is NOT the real problem. The economy sucks for the poor and giving another tax break to the rich isn't helping our citizens.

ANd now they are going after the schools. It is all part of the pattern. First underfund them. Then put idiots in charge. Then "take over" and "reform" them as a step to privatize them. The end result will be public tax money flowing to corporations so they can take their cut.

And you think that taking kids and putting them in boarding schools is the wave of the future. Scary.

[proud2BlibKansan]

164. Just like those Indian schools worked for Native Americans 100 years ago

Without a doubt, this was one of the more repulsive posts I have read in the nearly 7 years I have been here. Boarding schools for African American kids. Good fucking grief.

[chervilant]

Please

wake up and smell the coffee!

This IS an attempt to make 'bad teachers' THE problem du jour in public education! Can you not see how simplistic and misleading is this egregious red herring? (No one here is saying there are no bad teachers! We are saying that it's simplistic and misleading to say that 'bad teachers' are the reason the schools in our nation are ranked near the bottom in a list of the thirty 'most advanced' nations!)

Furthermore, madfloridian is among the few here on DU advocating for teachers, AND for effective improvement of our system of public education. Public education has been in trouble for YEARS, and Bush's "No Child Left Behind" legislation did even more damage to an already distressed system. Where were all of these 'reformers' during those terrible years when we educators were struggling to EDUCATE our children in spite of the bizarre labyrinth of legislative constraints (and standardized testing) imposed by that bill?!

Let me give you a 'for instance' from here in Texas: contemporary research shows zero correlation between high scores on standardized tests (called TAKS here) and reading skills. An alarming number of our 'graduating' students cannot read! Oh, and the last time I was involved in the TAKS torture event, our children 'passed' the math TAKS test with a score of 58%. Does that not ring any alarm bells?! I had seventh grade students whose math skills would not have qualified them for the fourth grade!

Our entire system of public education has been under assault for decades, with politicians and corporatists bemoaning how bad it is out of one side of their mouths; while supporting 'reform strategies' to eliminate or sharply curtail educational programs that work (eg, Headstart). Slashing funding, increasing the number of students in classrooms, eliminating fine arts, and various other 'initiatives' have resulted in a system of public education battered and bleeding from relentless assaults that have actually exacerbated the problems!

If we are to effect change in public education, our first steps should include becoming a child-centric society (still not holding my breath on this one), while addressing poverty and the myriad problems commensurate with radical income inequity. Until and unless this contretemps about 'bad teachers' is redirected toward addressing these core issues, we will NEVER achieve an effective system of public education.

[Pisces]

171. all of the things you have pointed out as problem solvers would take years, if ever to correct.

We are talking about the children of now. Solving poverty, becoming a child centric society , these are pie in the sky solutions like tea partiers saying cut taxes and raise defense spending with no
real solutions or plans. I am not bashing teachers, this entire thread gets hijacked by angry teachers who feel attacked and threatened. I am thinking about the children.

The only solution that can change immediately is funding our school systems, however, state by state this is the first thing put on the table to slash to help with the deficit budgets. Why because nobody
cares about poor kids. Wealthy kids will get a great education at private schools, or well funded high income neighborhoods.

[chervilant]

225. FYI

Read Alice Miller. You'll understand why I said I'm not holding my breath immediately after I suggested we need to be a child-centric society. There ARE things we can do now--if the corporatists don't succeed in dismantling public education.

I am glad so many people are involved in this discussion, and that madfloridian has been such a persistent advocate for educators. Oprah should give her an opportunity to be heard in a larger venue.

[madfloridian]

146. Nope, I am not a teabagger, as you say. Not even close.

Sorry to see you say that here.

[madfloridian]

149. Love being called a teabagger, so classy.

[Pisces]

174. I said you sound like a teabagger, not that you are one. On this issue

people offer pie in sky solutions like ending poverty, getting parental involvement from parents working 2 jobs with little education themselves. These are not solutions they are philosophies. There
are people putting their ideas into action with measurable results ie. graduation rates and college acceptance rates. Why not talk about those inconvenient truths. These inner city kids are graduating
from these charter schools and they are going to college. What have you got to say about that.

This is not an attack on you or your fellow teachers. I love teachers and thank many of my teachers from the past, but that has nothing to do with the problems in poor neighborhoods and inner
city schools. We are not going to get utopian solution. I believe you are happy to keep the issue about bad teachers vs. the children which is the main issue at hand.

[madfloridian]

177. You said I am "spouting garbage." Sounding like a "teabagger"

And you are getting away with doing so.

I would never say things like that about people.

I think it is shameful you tell me I am spouting garbage.

[Pisces]

183. yet you refuse to answer the things I posted to you in good faith.

This is not about your hurt feelings. Having a closed mind to any issue is not a good thing.

[madfloridian]

191. When you think inner city kids should go to boarding school..

then how does one answer that? You say I sound like a teabagger...you want an answer to that?

If I posted things like that, I would get in trouble. You apparently are able to do so freely.

[Pisces]

192. I guess my example of Andover and Exeter were over your head??

I don't know why anyone would get in trouble for saying that you sound like a teabagger. The arguments are parallel to theirs. Closed minds, closed hearts. You have your locked in position that this
is an attack on teachers and there is no other possible position. Things are not black and white in the world.

It is useless to debate with you as you are only interested in spouting your ideas and not debating with actual solutions that are not pie in the sky ideology. The pragmatic are going to go to work to help the children today. When you want to attack an idea it is usually good if you have a counter idea not just a mantra " Teachers good, parents and charter schools bad".

Boarding shools during the week make more sense than what is going on now.

[madfloridian]

211. You are right. I am not very bright. I don't know what I am talking about.

I guess I am surprised to see just how far you can go in putting me down. Actually you could call me anything and it would be okay.

I am just amazed at the levels of vitriol on this board now toward teachers.

It is stunning.

[Pisces]

213. Your responses continue to evade the main issue. No one is calling you names.

There is no place for discourse anymore. It's my idea or the highway. You want to rack up poor me victim points instead of addressing the post. Continue on with your campaign against any reform whatsoever.

I edited my own post as it was not constructive. The same as debating you is not constructive it is only one sided.

[madfloridian]

215. Ah yes, the lack of discourse thing. The "poor me victim" points

Since there is little hope of discourse, I will say bye. Not worth it.

[liberation]

178. "I said you sound like a teabagger, not that you are one."

Wow... that is pushing it a bit, at least when it comes to talk from both sides of your mouth.

Furthermore, I don't think "utopian" means what you think it does.

[proud2BlibKansan]

163. Boarding school????

:wtf:

:rofl:

[madfloridian]

176. Teabaggers and boarding school....most interesting comments.

Your quotes:

"Why not spout your garbage at those graduating kids who are going to college because of the SEED program. THese kids
would be going nowhere without it.

Sorry, but you sound just like the teabaggers ( who want their country back). School is never going to be like it was, we need radical change in inner city schools now. Parents and environment are not
going to change, therefore we must radically change how these children are being taught. Taking them out of their environment and putting them in a boarding school environment is the only way as
far as I can tell. They need the support and structure that their parents can not provide."

[Catshrink]

209. You want to abrogate parental rights and take kids out of their homes?

Okay then. Kind of like that politician who wants to put poor people in prison and teach them hygiene. Good luck with that.

[Pisces]

222. What are you talking about. WE are not talking about mandatory boarding school, this is

an option called a charter school that is working. It is called the SEED school. Look it up. They have 100% graduation rate and 87% go to college. No one is talking about taking kids away from their parents. Junior high kids go to boarding school now think Andover, Exeter, ST. Pauls etc. No one accuses these wealthy parents of abandoning their children. The charter school called the SEED school
is boarding school during the week, go home on weekends.

People are lining up for the lottery and devasted when they don't get in. It is the only hope for some, yet many want to bash it. Why, I can't figure out, only that it is contradictory to their agenda.
I don't htink these poor kids who want an opportunity care about the politics involved, they only care about getting a good education.

[ibegurpard]

62. teachers aren't the problem in inner city schools

the problem is the lack of a tax base and no familial and community support for education.
The privateers are capitalizing on this weakness to get their hooks into education.
When you control the schools and curriculum you can churn out good little corporate drones who toe the line.

[keepCAblue]

182. Not just corporate drones, but religiously indoctrinated drones. n/t

[LooseWilly]

71. Have you ever tried to teach in an "inner city school"? I have...

When the kids have no interest in class, and there is no motivation from home... and a teacher can't whip their asses or even speak harshly to them... and when the school administration is more worried about losing the per-head dollar numbers for fear of the district going bankrupt (and the Oakland CA school district did wind up going bankrupt)... there isn't a whole lot for a teacher to do— except play disciplinarian.

I'll give you a hint: No one can teach anything while spending all their time trying to discipline kids to be quiet enough so that they will at least not be so loud that the teacher in the next room can be heard. And in a classroom with 38 or 42 students, many with all sorts of personal or family issues, the odds are that some will be disruptive... and with that large of a class, it only takes 3 disruptive students to keep a teacher constantly busy with discipline issues—and unable to teach.

Make it a class of 20... or even 25... and even a relatively new teacher at least has a chance of getting control of the class. But, a class size of 21 requires twice as many teachers as a class size of 42. Money is the difference. Not even money per teacher per se... but money for enough teachers to reduce class sizes. But—more teachers means more benefits... more overpriced health care, etc. ...

The idea of charter schools being cheaper only makes sense if the teachers are paid less and get less benefits. If that's the case... then they will burn out and leave the profession faster— and the higher turnover rates mean... less skilled teachers, less dedicated teachers... and more of the equivalent money being spent by the state for education going to the "administrators"... in this case private corporate charter school entities.

So... based on anecdotal evidence of burnout teachers drawn from some of the most demanding school districts in the country, the public is supposed to agree to hand significant chunks of the monies set aside for public education and give it over to private charter schools on the basis of a business/education model that can only work based on the use of a continuously recycling stream of always-inexperienced teachers to work in circumstances that chewed up dedicated professionals and left as remains the source material for the anecdotal evidence that justified the shortchanging of those self-same professionals in the first place? And that doesn't strike you as a half-witted solution??

Maybe you should go spend some time in an inner city school sometime and see for yourself... before you criticize naysayers.

Or, just send me a PM when Bill Gates decides to spend a semester teaching at Havenscourt Middle School in East Oakland... so he'll really have an idea of what the fuck he's talking about. (Castlemont High School might be a bit much... some high school student might get the bright idea to just kidnap Bill's ass and hold him for ransom, rather than taking a midterm...)

[Pisces]

114. Sounds like you hate the children you were teaching. I don't doubt these children

are troubled. No one was making them sound like peaches. What the documentary is saying that there must be a radical shift in thinking to save some of these kids. Parents who are working 2 jobs
cannot get more involved and if you don't take the kids out of the negative enivronment they will not succeed. That is why they are suggesting these new boarding school charters. If people watched
with open minds and hearts instead of feeling like you as a teacher are being attacked, maybe we could agree that inner city schools need a different model.

Oprah and everyone on stage said this is not about the good teachers, and that there is a small percentage of bad teachers that could make a huge difference.


Maybe corporate america is trying to get involved, but we are talking about children that are going to be on social programs their whole life if we do not do something to help them. Yelling about the
parents getting involved is like talking to a brick wall. We need to be realistic and tackle the problem with the environment as is. The environment is not going to miraculously change, and ignorant
parents are not going to miraculously become smart.

[whathehell]

166. "Parents who are working 2 jobs cannot get more involved and..."

"if you don't take the kids out of the negative environment they will not succeed".

How about bringing some of those unionized factory jobs (like the kind my father worked in) that have been OUTSOURCED back and/or pay the parents a living wage so they only have to work ONE job?...Doing those things could make that "negative environment" a lot less so!

Hell, if we don't do that, we may need to send the whole neighborhood to "boarding school"!

[proud2BlibKansan]

170. I think we already tried this boarding school for poor minority kids idea

[truth2power]

138. Thank you, loosewilly. You understand what it's about. n/t

[chervilant]

76. hmm...

Wow... where to begin?

First of all, Winfrey's pathetic disclaimer (we're not talking about all you "good" teachers) did not change the FACT that this entire program promoted the 'bad teacher' meme--the meme that most of us recognize as a deliberate distraction so that the real challenges to public education (lack of funding, overcrowded classrooms, broken or missing equipment, propagandized curriculums, poverty, bad food, bad management, political agendas, absent or disinterested parents, objectified children--geez, do I have enough bandwidth here on DU to list everything?!?) are ignored.

Second, your assertion that you "highly doubt that anyone on this board would send their kids to one of these problem schools" presupposes that most 'inner city schools' are 'problem schools' and that, when faced with such a 'problem school,' parents can choose where their children attend school. Puh-leeze! Is 'inner city' the pc term for 'ghetto'? And, can you cite statistics for me to prove that most parents in 'inner cities' can choose where their children attend school?

Third, "what a bunch of naysayers"?!? Really?! Do you honestly think that disdainfully dismissing the concerns enumerated on this board promotes or legitimizes Winfrey's panel's agenda?! You may feel all big and bad when you're condescending, but you're NOT.

Finally, 'many teachers feel threatened' is the most astute observation you made, even though I had to take it out of context in order to emphasize its validity. This entire push to 'rescue' our system of public education by 'firing bad teachers' reminds me of the efforts we've seen of late to vilify firefighters. Both efforts are born of a political agenda, and are glaring examples of how eager so many of us are to snarf these red herrings.

[Nevernose]

79. I teach at - and my kid attends - one of these problem schools

However, being a teacher, I am well aware that education is not given, it is is something one has to take. My kid, coming from a relatively healthy, middle class famikly, is prepared to get a good education, so ik don't worry about it. It's some of the other students I worry about, not the occasional, rare bad teacher. Most of the other parents, from all walks of life, feel the same way.

[ecstatic]

89. + 1. nt

[CoffeeCat]

90. I watched the show...

...and you are right--there are bad teachers out there. I am sure, that in poor
communities, there are teachers who are not as effective.

The problem is--you cannot blame a few bad teachers on the entire downfall and failure
of our educational system. That's the point that many are making. A few bad teachers
are being used to scapegoat all teachers.

That's the problem.

And the people who are doing this--are wanting to privatize our education system, and
they will make billions doing so. So, they're convincing people that they have
the answers (privatization) and that teachers and unions are the problem.

[msanthrope]

93. They aren't going to watch the show, or the movie.

(I've seen both.)

To watch either the show or the movie would force posters to discuss them substantively, in threads where the agenda is very different.


I agree with your assessment of the show.

[proud2BlibKansan]

106. I teach in an 'inner city' school

I have spent my 3 decade career teaching in urban schools. And I deeply resent the implication that we are failing our children. Our urban poor community is being failed by poverty, homelessness, crime, trauma, hunger and a gazillion other issues teachers have no means of controlling. If you want to fix urban schools, start by fixing poverty.

[madfloridian]

111. Amen to that.

My last teaching position was in a school in a high-crime area. Many of the kids were lucky just to get themselves out of bed in the morning and to school. We teachers made sure they got breakfast, then later the school provided it.

I had a boy in 4th grade get himself and his sisters to school....turns out the house was torn up and their mother was missing. He was a great kid and a smart one, but he had to go home to the house in which his mom was beat up and sent to the hospital by her boyfriend. He got them to school that day though.

[truth2power]

140. Amen! n/t

[eilen]

157. Seriously. I used to work in those neighborhoods

where the "problem" schools are. Many of the homes I visited were in disarray. Some of these kids move 3-4 times a year. Often there is no place to study, the kids sleep in the living room of a one bedroom apt. or the home is so cluttered with stuff it is difficult to concentrate. Some parents don't prioritize education or have the will or desire to exert parental authority when the child is oppositional in school or do not bother themselves with dealing with homework. Many of these parents have dropped out of school or are just so young-- 15 years difference in generations-- often the single parent is busy with a job, a social life and school work is something they are just not very interested in. In our local city school district 21% of the students are identified as special education students.

Before they start judging teachers on the grades of a standardized test they should look at the students taking them. How many days has this student actually been in class? How many times has this student been referred for behavior? Is this child in an English speaking home?

A quote from one of our local paper's comments section on an article regarding our city school district:
"My friend briefly taught first grade in the city. One student responded to a request by saying said "my momma said I don't hafta listen to anyone but HER!!" Then there was the backpack of one kid that another kid set on fire with a lighter.....yes, this was FIRST GRADE."

[Javaman]

159. +1000

instead of saint oprah giving money to "charter" schools, she should be giving it to the school that are constantly getting their budgets cut.

[Pisces]

203. Ending poverty what a novel idea, why didn't anyone else come up with this???

This pie in the sky solution is all we get from you and others on this board. While that utopian idea sounds blissful, why don't you suggest something that is going to help the children in school right
this minute. Others are doing something for kids right now. Maybe it isn't the most ideal but it is working based on the data of graduation rates and college matriculation rates. This is hard proof this
model is working. You and a few others are more concerned with knocking down a good idea, and mocking those that are doing something good for people now. This is not about teachers it is about
children doomed to poverty. Maybe this new model can break the chain of poverty thereby getting the end results that you are advocating.

[proud2BlibKansan]

208. Doomed to poverty?

How little faith do you have in these people?

Boarding schools are not going to help.

Billionaires and their charter schools that pick and choose their students won't help.

Oprah won't help either.

I'm actually THERE helping - every day. And having success. My school is the highest performing school in the district and outscores most suburban schools in the area consistently year after year.

So you see, I not only KNOW what works, I am a part of the solution.

Like I said, you need to stop. You have no idea what you are talking about and you are insulting these children.

[Pisces]

210. These children are not handpicked and if things are so great everywhere why are

we even discussing this. I am glad you are having success at your school. maybe this success can be duplicated other places. I think there are many good ideas not just one . You still will not discuss
the results that the SEED schools are showing.

[Javaman]

158. Are you a teacher? nt

[knitter4democracy]

180. I teach in that kind of a school, actually.

I teach in an alternative high school with many students from the urban high school. After hearing many stories, knowing many kids in our school, and subbing in that school a couple of times last year, I can assure you that the biggest complaint isn't bad teachers. In fact, it's pretty low on the list. They complain about class sizes that are too big, too much drama between gangs and students, and administrators who don't care or get upset about stuff that doesn't make sense.

[DebJ]

185. So you are saying that the problem with inner city schools is

the teachers? What about the students and the parents? This is a HUGE difference between inner city and suburban schools. I had students who come in without any or sufficient sleep (some I personally know of without beds and some without homes), without proper nutrition, without parents who are either capable or willing or even home/available to provide guidance and motivation. I had 5 students just in my own homeroom who were given a daily bath by the nurse so that they would not stink so bad the rest of the class was literally gagging, and they washed their clothes, too. No matter how 'entertaining' a lesson might be, my student who listened to his mother's boyfriend curse her and pound her into the floor last night is just not going to learn. Neither is the one whose Dad is a pusher, with people coming and going out of his house all hours of the night. I loved my students, everyone of them, sometimes the trouble makers more than the others even, because I got to know all the more about them. But love and entertaining lessons cannot override, on a consistent basis, what happens at home most nights of the week.

Furthermore, in our system, the students need to have some type of responsibility and consequences. There are students who gleefully fill in the standardized test bubbles in a manner like this: a) fill in C for everything, and you are done! b) see if you can create a work of art in your selection of bubbles, c)whatever other creative thing other than reading and answering the questions. Their consequences for such: ZIP. NADA. NOTHING. Except giggles from fellow students.

The students don't care what they get on these tests unless their parents care.

[Ramulux]

59. Our schools are fucked

As shown by this ridiculous panel, there isn't even a debate happening anymore. Everyone agrees that its the teachers fault and there isn't even any discussion about what we are going to do about it.

So let me get this straight, teachers get paid shit, have one of the most stressful and important jobs in the country, have to deal with little assholes on a daily basis and have to teach in schools that are severely underfunded but THEY are the problem.

Can someone please explain to me what the fuck is going on?

[leftstreet]

66. 1) Union busting 2) Privatization for profit-making

That's pretty much what's going on.

All these rich fucks sitting on these panels and commissions don't give a SHIT about kids

[Pisces]

120. I am not for union busting, however, you must have the power to fire a poor employee to be effective

I have managed many people, and if you do not have the tool to eliminate poor employees, nothing will change. This is the same problem the post office is experiencing. They can not turn a profit, and they can not eliminate poor performers, short of murder you still have a job. That is why people are only hiring part time so that they can avoid these rules.

If you were listening they said 15 to 20% are bad teachers, that would follow any business model. The difference in eliminating those few would exponentially help children. I can not disagree with that.
The other thing the move focuses on is that the poverty and lack of parental participation in these schools is not going to change anytime soon.These children need support in order to succeed, not just
the teachers.

Anytime someone says teachers people go nuts. I guess they should crucify the poor, ignorant parents as the main cause to make everyone on this board happy. No one is disputing that these
kids don't have a chance because their environment isn't conducive to learning. The role models are not good and eating, and sleep habits are not good. That is why they are suggesting
a boarding style charter school.

I am glad that some are doing good work for the children. Good teachers have nothing to worry about and they know it. If we continue as we are where will we be???? The teachers on this board all
agree it is the no good parents and the no good kids not them. Well then we are an impasse. I am going to side with the people taking action. I agree with everyone. That means we are all
at fault for the failure of the school system.

[Hannah Bell]

134. teachers can be fired; the idea they can't be = winger talking point.

[Jax]

154. Thank you for FACTS Hannah Bell as always

because the right wing lies always show up in these threads.

Same old same old. Since day one.

And they are still transparent right wing bs.

[MedicalAdmin]

141. "Good teachers have nothing to worry about and they know it."

Good teachers get fired every day. Good teachers leave the profession because they are tired of working 16 hour days for little pay or benefits, while being required to take classes at their own expense yearly without any idea if they will even have a job the next year.

And no, it is not like other jobs. If you are a teacher and are not rehired the next year then you are pretty much relegated to finding any kind of job like waiting tables or loading trucks for UPS.

That's your choice as a teacher - either suck up to the principal (however he wants to be sucked) or live a minimum wage job while paying back expensive student loans.




Good teachers have everything to worry about with this and they know it. Or are you claiming that the vast majority of teachers who are pointing out the problems with the Race to the Bottom and the Gates Fondation, et. al. are deluded or stupid. By your own quoted statistics 20% of teachers are bad. If these plans are so good, then shouldn't about 80% of teachers be in support of them.

So what is it? Do you think teachers are stupid?

[proud2BlibKansan]

173. We could also model the boarding schools after the internment camps for the Japs in WWII!

Now we're talkin.

[Pisces]

175. Easy to snark at but the proof is in the graduation results as well as how many go on to college.

You can't dispute this positive data. This SEED model is working for those in the inner city. And while you sit here and tear every idea down, these kids are graduating going to college and could
potentially be the future leaders that will solve this problem for good.

Mock away while others spend time finding real solutions that work now, not some pie in the sky banner " end poverty, get parents with 2 jobs to participate more" I will side with the people getting
results for the children today.

[proud2BlibKansan]

179. You are advocating breaking up families, removing children from their culture,

forcing differing values on them.

I can think of a whole boatload of reasons your boarding school idea is just downright insane if not unspeakably cruel.

Our urban poor minority kids don't need outsiders looking to make a buck swooping in and saving them. Talk about a pie in the sky idea. Mocking is the least appropriate response.

[Pisces]

184. No, I am not. These kids are there during the week and they are of junior high age to high school.

You are diverting this thread with your snark and inflammatory suggestions. These children are not being taken away from their parents and put into child protective services. They are being put into
an environment where they can be succussful, like Andover, Exeter etc. I don't hear you suggesting those kids are suffering.

[proud2BlibKansan]

190. And you dare to assume they WANT to go to Andover, Exeter, etc.

Again, you are assuming their culture needs to be replaced. And their parents are incapable of parenting them without our help. But you'll let them have them back on the weekends.

No they all are not suffering. How insulting.

Many of them are happy, well-adjusted, in loving families and yes, being well-educated.

Your suggestions are the inflammatory ones. As a 3 decade advocate for these children, I am calling you out. That's NOT snark.

[Pisces]

196. No one is forcing people to sign up for the lottery to enter these schools. Obviously they

do want to go to these schools. You are insulting the intelligence of many on this board. If the inner city schools were providing what is necessary to help children succeed we would not be having
this discussion. Obviously the opposite is what is happening. Some are showing with action and results ie. graduation rates and college attendance rates how we can improve and help those
stuck in the perpetual loop of poverty. Others such as you want to tear it down with snark and pessimism, while offering no new or clear solutions. I will open my mind up to the proven results of those
that are trying to make a difference vs. the naysayers that are entrenched in their own position.

[proud2BlibKansan]

199. You don't know the first thing about these children, their families or their community

And you dare to accuse ME of insulting intelligence here on DU?!

Good grief. My feet are actually in the street.

Quit pretending you know what's best for these children. You're way off base.

[Pisces]

200. Why don't you quit pretending you know what's best for these children.

I see how you conveniently do not answer the data of success these schools have had with graduation rates and college acceptance rates. Somehow these schools have managed to have 100% graduate
last year and 87% go on to college. These are powerful numbers that can not be ignored. You have no idea what my background is or what I have experienced so do not condescend to lecture me on
what I know and what I don't. From your post, I know that you have chosen one idea and will not allow other ideas into your mind.

[proud2BlibKansan]

205. LOL It's easy to graduate 100% when you hand pick the kids

And yes, as I have said many times, I actually teach these children. For 30+ years now. So I am not pretending at all. I know far more about what their parents want for them and what they need to have to reach those goals than anyone on the internet who doesn't know this community and proposes stupid solutions like boarding schools.

You need to stop now.

[Pisces]

212. No the children are not handpicked they are selected by lottery. I will not stop you need to open

your mind to many solutions vs. your one solution. Your mocking tone and and sarcasm for others needs to stop. You don't know my background, again stop condenscending to others.

[madfloridian]

223. The charter schools do not keep non-performers.

They just don't. You are going after everyone today.

[keepCAblue]

189. With privatization, schools won't be subject to certain regulations...

...such as requiring sex ed or gay/lesbian student anti-bullying protections or anti-discrimination programs.

They will be free to preach and teach things like "abstinence only" and "being gay is a sin" and banning campus groups like GSA (Gay-Straight Alliance). They will also be free to choose their own teaching curricula, which may or may not include teaching the science of evolution or forced inclusion of "creationism".

So, yeah, our schools ARE fucked. And on a greater level, so is our society, our freedoms as we've known them, and our country, as a whole.

[The Midway Rebel]

65. I saw big parts of that show. Wife's day off and she was watching.

I had to leave the room because I was yelling at the TV and she couldn't hear. I need to figure out who funded the silly documentary she was pimpin'. I bet their name rhymes with Will Skates.

It was propaganda of the highest degree.

Misleading statistics, ignore the truth about poverty and the working poor, blame the teachers and the Unions, Privatize this, charterize that, mischaracterize those, lottery-ize, corporatize. Roll heart wrenching videos of beautiful striving children and struggling mothers, cue music (violins and cellos) go to commercial a-a-nd CUT.

[cjbgreen]

72. Poverty

And of course one in 5 children living in poverty has nothing to do with why students might struggle in school. Increasing class sizes, eliminating courses that engage students and encourage problem solving and support creativity and diverting funds to charter schools is a way to help all students and keep them in school? The solution, is fire bad teachers and our schools will drastically improve because children will be healthy, feel safe, optimistic, and be able to sleep at night even though their homeless?

Very sad, misleading and attacking the people who are sacrificing and care about education. I love the part when Oprah mentioned teachers staying until 11:00pm to grade papers. And who does she think is caring for their children if this is the expectation.

[cjbgreen]

73. Poverty

And of course one in 5 children living in poverty has nothing to do with why students might struggle in school. Increasing class sizes, eliminating courses that engage students and encourage problem solving and support creativity and diverting funds to charter schools is a way to help all students and keep them in school? The solution, is fire bad teachers and our schools will drastically improve because children will be healthy, feel safe, optimistic, and be able to sleep at night even though their homeless?

Very sad, misleading and attacking the people who are sacrificing and care about education. I love the part when Oprah mentioned teachers staying until 11:00pm to grade papers. And who does she think is caring for their children if this is the expectation.

[JoeyT]

75. As far as many are concerned the only reason to pay attention to

the poor and middle class have is to use them to find a way to channel more money to rich people.
Public schools interfere with rather than facilitating that process, so they're under attack.

It's far easier to funnel money to the corrupt when you're dealing with a private system that's publicly funded. Then you can force the middle class and poor to pay for their own screwing. And since you control the curriculum, you can ensure they never have the critical thinking skills to figure it out.

[madmom]

81. Never saw the attraction to this person, myself. I just don't get it.

[Overseas]

85. K&R! //nt

[CoffeeCat]

86. I think Oprah has been brainwashed about education...

I think Oprah has been commandeered by the corporatists who want to privatize
education. I think she is being used to demonize teachers and to brainwash
Oprah's audience into believing that the problem with education is bad
teachers.

It's not Oprah that has the power. Oprah's power lies in her captive audience
of women--many of whom are mothers with children of all ages. No other media
personality has Oprah's direct line into the demographic.

And if these corporatists want to privatize--they need to bamboozle the mothers
and the fathers--and convince them that teachers and unions are the problem
and that privatization is the solution.

I do like Oprah. I like her charity work and I do think she really helps children
and women in particular. I have really been impressed with the shows she does about
domestic violence and child abuse. As charismatic and talented as Oprah is--she
doesn't strike me as an intellectual. I can see her being bamboozled by these
corporatists who skew facts and present her with an alternate reality where teachers
are the problem.

I think she's being used.

[MedicalAdmin]

142. Oprah IS a corporatist.

Fer cryin' out loud, the woman hangs out with the Walton's.

She is 4 square for anything that sucks money from the little people to "her" people. SHE IS NOT ON YOUR SIDE. SHE DOESN"T LIKE YOU. SHE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT YOU.

[ecstatic]

88. There actually was an alternative view

The head of the teacher's federation.

[madfloridian]

99. Here's more about Weingarten....

She was on staff of the Broad Superintendent's Academy, whose graduates are among the superintendents who are making the fastest reforms of all...on the backs of fired teachers and turnarounds of schools from public to charter.

Teacher's union head was on the faculty of Broad superintendent's academy.

So her interests are not just about teachers.

[msanthrope]

101. Ironically, the head of the teacher's union, (AFT) is considered a collaborationist by

some teachers here.

It's an interesting way to block cognitive dissonance, isn't it?

After all, if the head of a teacher's union is actually suggesting that some reforms are good, it might cause some people to wonder if they should rethink their position.

But not on DU's 'education' threads...

[wtmusic]

102. The AFT "strongly supports charter schools"

"The American Federation of Teachers strongly supports charter schools that embody the core values of public education and a democratic society: equal access for all students, especially students with special needs and English language learners; high academic standards; accountability to parents and the public; a commitment to helping all public schools improve; and a commitment to the employees' right to freely choose union representation.

Charter schools are publicly funded schools that are granted autonomy from some state and local regulations in exchange for meeting the terms of each school's charter. State laws, which vary widely, govern who can authorize charters, who can apply for them, and the total number allowed. Today, there are more than 4,500 charter schools across 40 states and the District of Columbia, enrolling more than 1 million children."

http://www.aft.org/issues/schoolchoice/charters/

Charters are the beginning of the end of public education.

[msanthrope]

105. And? What's wrong with that statement?

Don't YOU support schools that "embody the core values of public education and a democratic society: equal access for all students, especially students with special needs and English language learners; high academic standards; accountability to parents and the public; a commitment to helping all public schools improve; and a commitment to the employees' right to freely choose union representation"


What, specifically, is wrong with any of that?

[wtmusic]

109. Because it's a myth.

Charters never offer "equal access for all students", or real accountability to parents and the public, and never will.

Charters are the educational equivalent of Blackwater. The only reason Weingarten is embracing them is she sees the writing on the wall - unions could be substantially cut out of the money pie if they don't play ball with the Department of Education.

And they brought it on themselves - if they were able to police their own it never would have come to this. But when 10 teachers are fired out of 55,000 in NYC last year, something's very, very wrong.

[msanthrope]

112. You may be correct.

It's entirely possible that the charter movement will not live up to its promises. Or, a few schools may, with the majority not succeeding.

And I don't disagree with you about Weingarten's cynical approach to this.

And I completely agree with you on your last statement....teacher's only have themselves to blame, for failing to police themselves. Worse, I think that trying to lay blame on parents rather than doing housecleaning, has only exacerbated the rate at which charter takeover will happen.

[MedicalAdmin]

144. How are most teachers to blame?

The NYC schools are a not funny joke, but how did teachers create that monster? Did they fund it? Do they run it? No they don't.

And most of the schools districts in the country don't run like that. Why don't you go look for Reagans' welfare queen as long as you are on a snipe hunt?

[msanthrope]

150. Why shouldn't teachers be blamed for failure to police themselves?

Forget all the other parts of the system---why shouldn't teachers be blamed for their utter failure to self-police?

With all the endless threads and journals posted on education, I've yet to see a single one where teachers discuss how to get rid of colleagues that are poor teachers.

Cops, lawyers, doctors--all those professions suffer when the worst among them are allowed to run amok. Why shouldn't teachers also suffer when they fail to report? Why shouldn't they take responsibility for the consequences of having poor teachers in their profession?

[Hannah Bell]

139. for starters, your article is from 2008. so it's not even about "last year".

and since no one has any way of checking the claims, the media can spout any bullshit they like.

[proud2BlibKansan]

152. I agree with Randi to a point

I supported the resolution to take a place at the table in reshaping how we are evaluated. I'd rather have a voice in reform than have it imposed on us. However I am adamantly opposed to value added evaluations and I fear Randi will agree to them in a collaborative spirit. She is definitely more interested in cooperating than fighting.

[ipaint]

91. Oprah, Gates, Broad and throw in the right wing hack Pete Peterson

all billionaires with egos the size of the planet and completely devoid of a moral compass and self control. Please go the fuck away, the last thing the planet needs is the top gluttons in society telling us all how to live under their selfish social engineering experiments.

[LeFleur1]

98. The Biggest Thing Wrong With Education in the US

is that too many times those making the decisions are exactly the same type of people on Oprah's guest list. They have never taught, or they tried to teach but were no good at it so they went into administration. When teachers begin making decisions about the education of students it will improve.
How many times have you seen teachers battle for different, better materials than the administration wants? How many times have you been to a meeting where addressing misbehavior in the classroom is being discussed, then is pardoned rather than addressed?
AND if it weren't for unions, our teachers would be at the mercy of a weak administration, and parents convinced that their children should be tutored individually by the teacher, and/or entertained all the school day.
Oh, and This is not intended for those 'good' parents who have taught their children the following lessons: they are one of many important persons in the universe, that they must share and get along with others, be helpful, pay attention, try to learn as much as possible, and follow directions.

[MedicalAdmin]

145. It sucks.

I was once hired to take over an education program that a school had let go to pot over the past 5 or 6 years before I got there. I immediately analysed the problem and set out the framework for a 3 year phased implementation for improvement to the program that would phase the kids already in the program up to snuff and then keep the program up to snuff and increase achievement.

The problem was that some parents WANTED their kids to be babysitted (typical comment at a community meeting was "you are trying to make my kid do college level work" - I pointed out that what I was suggesting that the kids be brought up to below grade level this year, at grade level the next and above grade level the year after that. - a big sticking point was that I actually wanted to TEST the kids - OMFG) The principal folded like a cheap suit and I was told not to do anything. I finished the year and totally ignored the principal and brought those kids up to snuff. Lots of parents (the quiet ones) loved me, but the not so good ones called more so I didn't get renewed - reason = I didn't follow instructions.

I knew then that education was not run by teachers - that teachers had no authority. We can't make the changes, but we know what needs to be done. By all means - ignore teachers.

That was my last year teaching. I did a cost benefit analysis on my pay versus my hours and I came up with about $7 per hour worked. I loved the kids, but I wasn't going to go broke slow while being kept from doing a good job for those kids.

[guitar man]

204. +1000

I can't think of anything to add to that! :applause:

[blondeatlast]

95. Unbelievable that public schools/services, teachers, and unions

have to be defended on a liberal website. :banghead:

[madfloridian]

104. Yes, unbelievable to have to defend public education on Dem forums.

And that does not just include DU.

[Fire1]

219. That's because they don't know any better. Most of the

negative reactions stem from negative experiences that can occur in any arena. They think the whole system sucks due to a few bad eggs. I do agree, however, that systemically, more than a few changes need to be made, starting with the administrators in control at the top of the supervisory hierarchy.

[xchrom]

103. recommend

[Smarmie Doofus]

107. Is Rhee still around? Oprah is so.....

... last week.

K and R

[The Philosopher]

119. I caught a part of the show

And I couldn't stand it. At one part Guggenheim said that the Union rules to protect teachers from firings were put in place originally "for very good reasons." Then he wonders aloud if the rules have becomes so constricting that they get in the way of their original purpose.

So, obviously the rational, logical conclusion is to get rid of the rules. Oh yeah. :eyes:

I also like how Oprah kept saying, "We're talking about BAD teachers, not GOOD teachers." Not only does it indicate that she knew how one-sided the conversation would be (and it's laughable that she'll wait until later for a proper "response," when the accused will have to DEFEND themselves against Oprah's flock), it leaves one to question just WHO decides who is bad or good.

When the teachers and parents have had their say, will she bring them all together in a third show to address what the teachers and parents said about the first show's accusations? Or will she look to the camera and look serious and say that this is a serious discussion that will take more than a single show to fix and then go on to talk about her last, fabulous season?

This kind of journalism is dangerous. History has shown that a single lie equals an army of truths.

[librechik]

126. So much easier to destroy than to build

Now that they've destroyed our public education, what will they do to replae it? Hire outside contractors,a t extra expense. It's the Conservative Way.

[bluethruandthru]

135. If Oprah, Bill, and the others are so concerned about education...

why are they destroying public education by giving huge amounts of money to charter schools? I'm sure a public school could make huge improvements if someone dumped a million dollars on it!
I just don't understand the worship of charter schools.

I also don't understand Rhee and others demonization of teachers. When they continually punish and humiliate teachers whose students don't "test well", how do they think they'll ever get good teachers to go into the more disadvantaged districts?

[laughingliberal]

136. +1000 nt

[AuntPatsy]

137. And the sheeple listen intently.....and the opposing view goes silent...

[Jax]

155. +1,000,000

[valerief]

167. Make way for more taxpayer-supported Jesus schools, ahem, charter schools. nt

[liberation]

169. There was only 1 person with an actual college degree among the 3 "experts" and Oprah.

Why do the people in this "panel" none of whom has a direct experience in education, feel their opinions in education are entitled any special consideration? Oprah is for all intents and purposes a functional illiterate, Bill Gates is a college drop out, then there is a film director with a documentary about Al Gore giving a PowerPoint presentation, and then we had a career bureaucrat. To be honest, at least the lady had actual college degree. So that was as remotely connected with "education" as that whole panel is. WTF?

And what's with the assumption in this country that having globs of money makes one's opinion, in a matter they have no experience whatsoever, somehow binding? Furthermore, and not to be an asshole, but I believe Mr. Gates actually suffers from Aspergers syndrome... which means he has some serious handicaps regarding social interaction. What is next, will Oprah interview someone with phobia of water to discuss what Michael Phelps should do to improve his swimming?

[MichiganVote]

181. Good bye Oprah Billionaire. And I urge other educators to boycott her too.

Billionaires stick together, teachers should too.

[ooglymoogly]

186. It's Oprah; Why would anyone expect anything intelligent?

Just one cut above Fox. Dr. Phil for cripes sake! Flym flam on steroids. Hucksters galore. Dumb down TV at its most powerful. The only experience these uneducated folks have is propaganda, and certainly not education. Time for the fat lady to sing....Memememememememememememe.

[Odin2005]

187. You mean the same Oprah who supports that idiot Jenny McCarthy?

Now there is another reason She is on my shit list.

[keepCAblue]

188. It all started with Bush's NCLB, while gov in TX...

Bush's NCLB systematically set up the public schools and public school teachers to fail, giving Bush's Texas the excuse to withhold school funds...

Then he, as president, applied the same NCLB to public schools nationwide. Here in CA, Schwarzenegger has systematically slashed funds to public schools, forcing school closures, extra-curricular program terminations, decrease in supplies and resources, and teacher lay-offs, leaving the public school system in CA crippled and bleeding, while at the same time stacking the State Board of Education with charter school advocates and accepting campaign money from for-profit schooling special interest groups and corporations. It is the raping and pillaging of our public schools by corporate raiders whose sole aim is privatization for the sake of greed, profit and corruption. They don't give a fuck about the kids, quality of education or inner city schools. It's all about the money. Obscene amounts of money, money, money...

[rgetzel86]

195. Union-Bashing and the Charter School Myth

Anti-teacher and anti-union rhetoric has reached a fevered pitch in this country. It appears to have even entered the mainstream among progressives. But there are some statistics to consider which fly in the face of conventional wisdom. The weakest school systems in the country actually belong to states where union influence is weakest, the so-called right-to-work states. Does this mean unionism actually improves academic performance? Not necessarily, but it sure doesn't mean that unions and tenure are to blame for any crisis in education. States with strong teacher unions consistently outperform those without teacher unions, and this is cold-hard fact.

The magic bullet being hawked these days are charter schools. A recent Stanford research study showed that 17% of charter schools significantly outperform public schools. It also showed that around 35% of charter schools significantly lag behind public schools in academic performance. For every success story, which saturate the media, there are 2 failures. This is the side of the story which is conveniently omitted by those who perpetrate the hoax that is the charter school solution. Most charter schools are also better funded than public schools, have lower student-to-teacher ratios, and many of them select their own students, although to be fair, some do practice blind admissions.

The whole charter school movement is a concerted effort to break unions and privatize education. Just like anything in this country, it's about lining the pockets of the few. And these "reformers" will do anything to forward their agenda. They'll defund public schools and shower funds on charter schools and then point to the miracles that are being performed in these charter schools. Ask Michael Bloomberg. They'll never, ever concede that the failure rate is higher than the "miracle" rate. They'll decry the evil teacher unions who will do anything to keep unqualified teachers in the classroom, even though states with stronger union influence sit atop the United States in academics. Just because they purport to have a solution doesn't mean their solution holds any water. It doesn't. It's strawmen (teachers) and half-baked, unproven solutions (charter schools, vouchers, etc).

I don't think we have a crisis in education in this country. We have a poverty crisis in this country. Take away inner-city schools (which I am not advocating), and we are on par with other countries in terms of academic performance). If we didn't have a permanent underclass and a 16% poverty rate, the landscape would look a whole lot different. The relationship between socio-economic status and academic success is something that is understood by everyone.

[proud2BlibKansan]

217. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[Starry Messenger]

224. Welcome.

I like you a whole lot already. :thumbsup:

[madfloridian]

227. Nice post. Well said. Welcome to DU.

:hi:

[lark]

194. Corporate tool bitch -

What else can I say? Up is down and right is wrong in "their" eyes. Sickening! I never liked her anyway. One day I was recovering from surgery at home and bored so watched her show for a bit. She had Beyonce on and was talking about how B's jeans were priced for every day women - why they were all "only around $100", with exclamations of how reasonable! I never in my life have even tried on $100 jeans, much less bought a pair. I turned off the set and have never watched her since then.

[lisa58]

198. I don't "do" Oprah - this is sad

[txlibdem]

202. I'm getting so sick of this "reform" crap

What is the purpose of tenure if teachers can be fired.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

206. I liked her in The Color Purple

[Irishonly]

207. I am not a fan

I remember when I first became disabled I was shocked at how many people told me I could now watch Oprah and how shocked they were when I told them I wasn't going to start.

I remember when I started teaching in 1975. I remember the excitement and the joy. I am so glad I am not in the classroom now. I hate the teacher bashing and I never thought we would come to this.

I have been disabled since 1999. I have watched children being kept home to babysit, clean or help put on a new roof. I have watched the number of administrators grow exponentially while class size has increased. Let teachers do what they do best-teach.

[Patchuli]

216. Boot to the head

for Oprey. What a pompous horse's ass. I would like to see her try working down in the trenches with the spoiled, disrespectful, IPOD-wearing, texting students, entitled hover-craft parents, lack of funds for the programs that are supposed to aid in teaching, including adequate staffing and see if she think it's all the teachers' faults. There are so many lousy parents in this country. Everyone is getting so casual about everything. It's all about indulging yourself. The home life is never blamed yet look how we look to the rest of the world. Oprah hasn't helped that much with that either. Our television is generally idiot-entertainment and the kids are too busy with the techno toys to actually study. You can waste tons of our taxes to test them to death with Dumbya's No Child Left Behind crap and Obama's Race to the Top, but that is not what the STUDENTS want. Do any of these know-it-alls know what kids want? I've had kids ask me "WHY WON'T THEY STOP TESTING ME AND JUST TEACH ME?????! Why don't they fund the schools properly and give them a chance to succeed?????? Even with the NCLB, the funding for same was received by the schools. It's a sham and a shame.

[Fire1]

218. I haven't watched Oprah in a couple of years and I KNEW to

stay clear of this one!

edit: typo

[maryf]

220. Now teachers can add "hating Oprah" to the list

of reasons they are "bad". Wonder how many teachers will stop watching her now?