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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 11:55 PM
Original message
there are always going to be bad teachers...
But that doesn't mean you should paint the majority of teachers with broad brush.

My family is full of teachers, teachers going back all the way to the 1800's.

My Mom was a teacher, both her parents taught, and her grandmother was also a teacher.

Two of her brothers taught.

Several cousins are also teachers.

On my dad's side, several people were teachers. But one, my Aunt, because of her alcoholism, was a poor teacher toward the end of her career.

So, using the Oprah/Arne/Barack/Bill template, all of them should be tarnished because of my Aunt's deteriorated work ethic toward the end of her long career as a teacher.

I'm shocked that such a prominent African American such as Oprah would be willing to use the same wide brush used against her race as a tool to taint a profession.

It boggles my mind.

The problem isn't the teachers. The problem is the deteriorating tax base in the inner cities, the dumping ground we who live in the burbs have allowed to fester while we sit tens of miles away from the problem and wonder why those kids can't just be like our kids.

This isn't to say that there aren't bad teachers who have attained tenure, but it also doesn't give anyone on the outside carte blanche to criticize and extrapolate a problem to crisis proportion.

I found a book I bought back in the middle 90's called Manufactured Crisis. It was about the uproar over public education.

One thing they always point to, these people who believe that the public schools are failing, is the test scores of other industrial countries compared to ours. But many of the countries we compete with have tracking. Students are tracked at an early age toward academic or vocational. Here in the US, we at least try to allow people to be in charge of their futures.

Take my brother, for instance. He was a poor student in High School. Worked as an auto mechanic. He still took all of the standardized test and so his score was folded into the ones of the smart kids. The overall score for that class was impacted by his low grade.

But here in the US, he decided to turn his life around, went to the Community College and worked himself into a Masters Degree in Accounting and is now a partner in a CPA firm. I wonder if in Japan people have that same opportunity to reinvent themselves.

I'm rambling, of course, but it just really gets to me that the, mostly self-appointed, leadership in this country suddenly all agree that the teachers are the reason we don't have higher standardized test scores than Denmark or Japan or Germany.

If you are going to standardize education, then take the funding away from property tax. Simple as that. Also, take it away from gambling profits. Most state Lotteries are sold to the public because they will help our schools. How fucking cynical is that....

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-10 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. I think your ideas and sense of history are spot on.
Some people, like your brother, take a long time to discover what's important to them, to their lives, and then they get the bit in their teeth and take off. And good teachers are a big part of the reason those kids do well over the long haul.

I wonder what would have happened to him in a country like Japan? I suspect he'd still be an auto mechanic...

Recommended.

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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-10 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
2. Good post
k&r
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-10 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
3. one of the best things about the US, IMO, is that second chances like your brother got, are possible
for most people.

not true in a lot of other countries due to the tracking & other issues you mention.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-10 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. But no one talks about that...
This is the shinning part of our educational system, as far as I am concerned.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-10 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. i agree. & the deformers want to move toward the "no second chances" system from the documents
i've seen -- i'm remembering a couple of the gates papers -- i'll take a look for them next time i'm in a heavy research mood.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-10 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
5. I like your 2 cents and thank you for sharing it. :^)
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-10 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
6. Oprah: "So we're not talking about you if you are a good teacher."
Did you see the show? Obama and Duncan praise teachers frequently and go out of their way to say that they aren't blaming all teachers. In fact, even the statement on Oprah's show description suggests that the assumptions in your post have little factual basis.


"Everybody knows I love good teachers, and there are so many thousands of you—great ones—in this country," Oprah says. "So we're not talking about you if you are a good teacher."
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-10 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. yeah, just the bad ones
the ones we just can't get rid of that are requiring us to dismantle public education in our most vulnerable places and replace it with corporate charter schools.
You think they'll be teaching anyone about Saul Alinsky in those?
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-10 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. This Alinsky-inspired community organization opened charter schools in Chicago.
They mention Alinsky on the front page of their website so I would assume he's mentioned in school at some point. That kind of punches a whole in the rhetoric about Duncan being on a diabolical quest to corporatize all schools and destroy public education.

http://www.uno-online.org/moreinfo.aspx

http://unocharterschools.org/about_ucsn.aspx


With the power and experience to enact widespread change, we opened our first charter school, then located at two sites in Greater Tri-Taylor and Little Village, in 1998.

UNO believed then, as it still does, that the charter school is the “vehicle” within the community that drives dreams of opportunities and success, and makes them come true for the children of local families and generations to come.

Originally managed and operated by the Educational Management Organization (EMO), Advantage Schools, the K-8 school – Octavio Paz Charter School – was failing until UNO assumed full responsibility and took over day-to-day operations in 2000.

By 2003, the school had reversed its decline in test scores and now boasts some of the highest test scores among the city’s charter schools. UNO’s original Chicago charter was renewed through June 30, 2008 by the Chicago Board of Education.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-10 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Did she say how the Charter Schools would differentiate between the good and the bad?
Are all schools going to be privatized? Or only school in the inner city?

How will these schools be funded?

Will they be funded with public money and then allow private interests to make profit?

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-10 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. It's manipulative bs that frames "the problem" as teachers.
But only those "bad" ones, you know, wink, wink.

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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-10 02:53 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. Those are all serious issues.
Reducing them to an accusation that Obama and Oprah hate teachers doesn't foster meaningful discussion of those issues.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-10 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. LOL. The Great Oz has spoken. n/t
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-10 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. fuck oprah. nclb & rttt eventually get rid of all teachers. do you always believe everything
people tell you?

people lie. and especially people like gates & oprah, that's how they get to the top of the rats.
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ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-10 01:44 AM
Response to Original message
13. What shocked me about the show was apparent life tenure for DC teachers after 2 yrs
Did I hear correctly? Automatic lifetime enure after just 2 years? Is that a common threshold? What do you think of it?

Seems to me 2 years is just too short a time, and maybe automatic tenure after any fixed period of time might be a bad idea. Maybe some review panel should have to certify someone as a master teacher before tenure is granted. What do YOU think?
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-10 03:26 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. It's all a diversion. Teachers are not the problem.
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ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-10 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Teachers certainly are not the only problem. But there's very little
policymakers and managers can do about most of the other problems. Are you saying that ALL teachers somehow are overcoming parents' noninvolvement, students' basic needs not being met at home, gang activity in the community, etc?

In all the places you've taught, have you NEVER met abysmal teachers as well as remarkable teachers?

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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-10 04:25 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. THAT'S what you got out of this?
How many times do we have to go over this tenure nonsense? Or are the deformer talking points now taken as facts?
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-10 03:24 AM
Response to Original message
16. Actually, there are going to be teachers who are good at some things & not as good at other aspects
Edited on Tue Sep-21-10 03:26 AM by Hissyspit
of the job.

It's called being human.

And no matter how good they are - at all things, some, or none - if you pay them to be creative at a feudal pay rate, that's as much of the problem as anything.
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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-10 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
20. It really bugs the hell out of me when people call them "bad teachers".
There are effective teachers and ineffective teachers out there. The ones which are ineffective should be mentored and re-trained, and if that fails they should find another profession. Not everyone is a "born teacher"; some are made. If we only employed born or natural teachers we would lose out quite a bit. The current system which most schools have in place right now leave little time for mentoring.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-10 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Jut so you know I was using the language used by those who disparage
teachers. Do you think I would dis all my relatives who devoted life times to teaching?

I would classify my aunt as a bad teacher because she let her addiction to alcohol destroy her effectiveness as a teacher.

sometimes I really believe people add a comment just by reading the title and don't bother to read the rest of the post...
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