How can an 11 y.o. be charged as an adult for murder?

[lillypaddle]

Apparently a 2 year old was left for her to babysit - the baby was found dead from apparent head trauma. This is a tragic, horrific case, but an 11 year old child charged as an adult for murder???? I just don't get it ...

Atlanta Metro area.

Link: http://www.wsbtv.com/news/25095821/detail.html

[foxfeet]

1. Depends on state law.

I have no idea what the statutory basis for such charges would be in Georgia.

[lillypaddle]

2. I didn't mean literally

Guess I should have been clearer. I mean that it makes no sense to me to charge an 11 year old as an adult for murder. An 11 year old is a child.

[teenagebambam]

3. Whatever "adult" decided that an 11 year old

Was old enough to babysit should be charged.

[demigoddess]

8. amen, although i babysat my sibs when i was 9,10,11 I was

not really ready to do it. I babysat later when I was 12 and 13 and was much more capable. This is just too much responsibility to be put on her shoulders. At school at her age they will not allow an 11 year old to know such things as how to take care of babies and what they need physically because they would have to talk about boobs or something.

[AuntPatsy]

32. I began babysitting at age 11 for friends of my mother...I never felt

unable to handle several hours of having to be responsible, it is possible for an eleven year old to be that responsible...

[Codeine]

37. I managed.

Watched my sister from nine years on. We were fine, but we were also pretty good kids despite a really shitty environment. Most kids are animals.

[6000eliot]

4. Because while our culture pretends to worship children,

we actually hate and fear them.

[zbdent]

5. here's a situation that happened in Akron ...

a 17-year-old father of a toddler shook the child so hard that it caused irreversible brain damage. Terri Schiavo time.

The baby was placed on life support.

The father was charged with child abuse.

After a short court fight, the 18 year old mother was allowed to "pull the plug", so to speak, on the baby's life support. (The judge who allowed this was, I believe, endorsed by the local Republican party). The father had NO LEGAL SAY IN THE MATTER BECAUSE HE WAS NOT 18, and they were not married.

(I don't remember any local religious groups fighting for the baby's life a la Terri Schiavo, nor any of the "Fathers' Rights" anti-choice groups).

One day after the court's decision, the 18 year old mother pulled the plug, and the toddler died (on a Saturday).

The only surprise (to me) was that it took until Thursday for the courts to charge the 17 year old father with murder. AS AN ADULT. This was well after a court ruling which said that any situation which caused a person to die from the injuries could be charged with murder. (This ruling was based on a case where a person who was paralyzed after an attack died of an infection, resulting from complications of paralysis, 10 years after the attack.)

This was screwy to me.

[cleanhippie]

7. Sad story. I do take one exception to your use of "anti-choice"

to describe fathers' rights groups.

[LAGC]

14. What would you prefer? "Pro-Life?"

Why force someone in a vegetative state who requires artificial life support to live? What kind of "life" is that?

[cleanhippie]

41. Hold on a sec, no one said anything about forcing anyone to do anything.

I'm not even sure what you are talking about. I took exception to using the term "anti choice" when talking about fathers rights.

[Tsiyu]

16. Vast difference between a 17 yr old and an 11 yr old

And we had a similar case as yours, except father was of age and refused to sign a no-code on the baby he horrifically beat into a vegetative state at six weeks old. Because his parental rights were not terminated pending a trial on severe abuse, he could do that and keep himself from facing a murder charge. When I left that hopspital, that baby was going on four years old and still in a vegetative state.

It pissed us all off. Daddy could get a slap on the wrist for child abuse and never do time for murder, even though only machines were keeping the child alive per his demands.


But it was legal. Not sure what happened in the case you describe.

What should NOT be legal is trying a mere child as an adult. If we put a child into a situation above that child's ability to function capably, we as the adults are guilty of any ensuing crime or damages.

If I let my 11-yr old drive, I should be held responsible if he crashes into a house. If I let my 11-yr old handle a firearm, I am responsible for anything he shoots.

And if I put an 11 yr old in charge of an infant/toddler, I , the adult, am completely responsible for any harm that comes to that infant/toddler.


Making a kid take the fall for adult irresponsibilty is pretty frickin' lame. But this is Atlanta, where the case above I related happened. Kids always take the fall for adults it seems in Georgia...

[lillypaddle]

24. Well said. n/t

[D-Lee]

17. Lots of factual doubts about "shaken baby syndrome" now reported

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/21/opinion/21tuerkheimer.html?ref=opinion

Take a look at the above link ....

[hyphenate]

6. It would really depend on the circumstances

of a case. First of all, though, an 11 year old should NOT be babysitting. I would never let a child babysit for a child that young.

As to the case, if the 11 year old knew that shaking the child, hitting it over the head or whatever would result in that child dying, they can argue that the 11 yo know the consequences of her actions, and would have killed the baby with malice aforethought. That would be different than a child simply being ignorant of the results of actions, and the baby died accidently.

I would have to be made far more aware of the actual particulars of the case in order to know more, but there you have it.

It's not likely the child would serve any time in a prison, but the reasoning might be to have the case permanently on their information, because if someone has been tried as a juvenile, their records are sealed and can't be opened on them when they are no longer a juvie.

[RamboLiberal]

9. In Lawrence County PA they are going to try a kid who murdered at 11

as an adult. He killed his father's pregnant girlfriend as she slept with a shotgun then went off to school. Jordan Brown if anyone wants to google the case.

[demigoddess]

10. there is a difference between wielding a shotgun and mishandling

a baby. shaking used to be an approved method of handling a child and I doubt it has fully died out and children learn from what is done to them. An 11 year old being asked to babysit might well be in an abusive situation, and therefore reacts differently than an adult.

[RamboLiberal]

15. Still there is controversy here if an 11 year old's brain is fully formed

to understand the consequences of the act.

There are people here who have no problem if he spends the rest of his life in prison and people here who see that as extremely harsh for someone who committed that crime at that age.

[jannyk]

11. Ever heard of Mary Bell, Jon Venables, Robert Thompson?

They were all 10 when they planned and committed murder

Venables and Thompson:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger

Mary Bell:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Bell

While this 11 year old should never have been the babysitter, and I am not making any judgment in this case - it could be accidental death, these other cases show it is possible for children to plan and carry out 'murder'.

I grew up in London. I remember the Mary Bell case very well (I was 15 at the time) - she would have kept on doing it if not caught.

[lillypaddle]

13. It doesn't appear to have been "planned"

I don't know, I remember when my kid was 11 - no, I don't believe he would have ever done something like this, but my god, he was a baby.

[Tsiyu]

31. I agree

There are rare 11-yr olds who are mature enough and have decent judgment. Most, in my experience, still require some supervision.

Sad case, at any rate.

[lillypaddle]

28. If I remember correctly

Mary Bell was severely abused. Her mother, a prostitute, let her clients use her. There was obviously some psychopathy involved in the case -- help in a medical/mental environment seems more appropriate than death row -- whether that be for the rest of her life or not.

[AuntPatsy]

34. Never heard of that case, horrific but sadly not shocked here...

[Pithlet]

12. It's barbaric.

It isn't justice, it just satisfies the need some have for revenge.

[hyphenate]

19. Which is pretty much

what the 2 yo's mother said, that she should do "life" for the death of the baby.

[KansasVoter]

18. This country is out of control with criminal justice!

The police and prosecutors only want convictions. They do not really care if the person is 100% guilty.
And we have more people in jail per-capita than any country in the world.
It is sad and wrong but the "throw away the key" crowd wins!

[TreasonousBastard]

20. It's a stupid, cheap form of "justice"...

that comes from the "heniousness rule."

This rule isn't really a legal theory or rule, but when a crime seems so monstrous that normal sanctions don't apply, special ways are found for "justice." If she were to be charged as a child, she would go through juvie court, the records would be sealed, and she would be let out when she reached majority, with no guarantee she wouldn't do such a thing again.

An 11-year-old doesn't have the brain development to fully understand deadly force, consequences of actions, or make the sort of plans a mature person would-- that's why we don't let them drive, vote, or live on their own. There's no way such a child would have the same though processes that an adult murderer would have. But, murder was done, so rather than find a way to treat the child we call the child an adult so we can lock them up forever.

Are there "bad seeds" that are beyond hope? I don't know, but the cops and prosecutors running the show know even less, and just warehousing these kids isn't the answer.

It wasn't so long ago we could execute these children, until the Supreme Court put a stop to that.

[JonLP24]

21. Head trauma??

Interesting. I was recently reading about how shaken baby syndrome was not so simple in a way of identifying something and determining someone did that when recently it has been showed other factors can come into play.

Here is what I'm talking about-http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2010-07-22/news/phantom-murder-at-the-11th-hour-prosecutors-dropped-a-murder-charge-against-a-beloved-daycare-operator-leaving-the-death-of-baby-dillon-a-medical-mystery/

In that case they dropped a murder charge against a respected day care worker because other factors could come in to play when it comes to "shaken baby syndrome".

As far as charging the kid as an adult, I don't believe that is right. However I think he may not be guilty and also possible an accident? I mean 11 is kind of young to be watching over other children.

[smokey nj]

39. Thanks for that link.

What a horrible story.

[SmileyRose]

22. The max she'll get if convicted is 2 years in Juvenile

according to the article and the local TV newscast......... Regardless of how she's tried, if convicted she has to be treated as a juvenile because she's under 13. And the maximum sentence is 2 years.

If that info is accurate then it sounds to me like "trying her as an adult" is more political grandstanding as "tough on crime" to the folks in the richest part of Atlanta than it is an actual reality.

[Tsiyu]

38. Completely untrue

This was the case, until a high profile case changed the law:

"In 2004, Carroll County prosecutors had a similar problem in the strangulation of 8-year-old Amy Yates.

Amy vanished shortly after leaving her family's trailer on her bicycle to visit a friend in the Twin Oaks Mobile Home Park. About four hours later, police found her body in a ditch about 100 yards from her trailer.

A 12-year-old boy who was a known troublemaker in the trailer park eventually pleaded guilty. He was locked up for two years, the longest the law allowed at that time.

In 2006, the Georgia General Assembly passed Amy's Law, which lengthened the time a juvenile could be confined for a crime that would be a felony if committed by anyone 13 years or older. When Amy was killed, the maximum time was two years, and now it is five years or until the 21st birthday."



Link? Of course:

http://www.ajc.com/news/north-fulton/11-year-old-babysitter-617778.html

But Ga law traditionally allows a homicide charge at 12 or older, so I'm not sure how they are getting by with charging her as an adult.

edit for something or other

[Contrary1]

23. I hate headlines like this. She wasn't left with just the 11 year old kid,

The toddler was left with the mother's co-worker and her 11 year old child.

[eyeofdelphi]

25. where do you see that?

do you have a different link or something. granted this one is short on info. but in this story it just says "Police said the baby sitter’s mother is a co-worker of the victim’s mother." it doesn't say that she was also home with her daughter and the 2 year old. maybe she was at work too?

[ManiacJoe]

27. That is not in the link from the OP.

Is there more data available elsewhere?

[lillypaddle]

29. on the news here in Atlanta (TV)

they said the co-worker then left the 11 yo daughter alone with the 2 year old.

[stray cat]

26. Better to set them free at 18 regardless?

[Davis_X_Machina]

30. Is the position of District Attorney there elective, or appointed?

Are judges elected or appointed?

[mmonk]

33. Well according to Yoo, they can be tortured.

[pitohui]

35. does "apparent head trauma" mean the little monster bashed in a BABY's brains?

then by all means try her as an adult

when i was her age, i babysat all kinds of little horrors, i didn't use it as an excuse to say, "well i'm 11, i get a free kill as a child, so let's smash in bratty screaming baby's brains"

no sorry, 11 years old is plenty old enough for anyone to know you don't smash in a baby's brains

some people just don't belong in decent society, our insistence that we should tolerate little monsters in decent society doesn't help or change the little monsters, it merely makes the world less safe for those of us who aren't little monsters

think of the priests who were sent from parish to parish to keep molesting, apparently baby smashers should be sent from county to county to keep baby smashing or how many free kills or up to what age do they get free kills? i'm just curious

sorry to sound cranky but C'MON i babysat at that age, and i was babysat when younger by a girl of 11, and somehow murder didn't happen, because well if you're 11, maybe you could do an inside trade hacking the internet or something and not know its illegal, because that's something highly technical BUT IF YOU'RE EVER GONNA KNOW KILLING IS ILLEGAL YOU ALREADY DO

the natural sympathy for other living creatures comes much younger or it doesn't come at all, how old were you when you understood that even a kitten wants to live and be happy? probably so young you can't remember!

[G_j]

36. answer one question

is an 11 yr.old an adult?

[Politicalboi]

40. I watched the video

And the baby was left with a co-worker and the 11 year old. I mean the baby must have been crying at some point. Where was the adult? How come the co-worker just walks away from this?

[smalll]

42. Perhaps she murdred her in an especially cruel manner --

I don't know. But I say lock them away for life, this type of kid: if not, they'll be running up and down the hallways of our local hotels when we and our spouses are trying to take our bi-annual escape from home!

(Double-sarcasm: actually, I stand by the hotel-complainers.)

[proteus_lives]

43. If she bashed a infant's head, I have no problem with that.

Keep her in juvie until she's 18 and then send her to adult prison.