When the fuck is the President going to turn his back on the dithering idiots and bigots in Congress

[bigtree]

. . . and just enact the Defense policy he believes is correct?

If President Obama believes DADT is so egregious to gays serving in the military then how long is he willing to wait for Congress to do the right thing by them? Forever?

At some point he has to either act in a manner which protects their rights and protects them against discrimination, or he's just allowing it. He needs to use his Executive power to suspend the policy. He needs to lead.

Sure, Congress may well respond to his executive order in a way which is damaging, but he's got to do more than just hide behind their skirt. He needs to move past his co-opting position of waiting for Congress to act (especially in the face of their nonsense today) and use the power of his office to correct what he claims to feel is untenable and wrong.

At the very least, he should now move to prevent any more discharges under the policy he's been so willing to let Congress dither on for so long and make that policy retroactive.

[babylonsister]

1. I think he's also waiting for 'the report', since he asked for it.

I don't agree, but seems to me that might be where he's at.

I agree with you and if there is anything the Prez can do, he should do it.

[bigtree]

3. thanks for agreeing

I think we're both invested in faith and hope that this President will ultimately do the right thing.

[babylonsister]

5. I think that has always been his intention, and so many

times he didn't get his way. But that doesn't mean he won't keep trying. And I love that about him.

[Skittles]

28. he's doing the right thing

we want him to do the left thing

[VMI Dem]

2. Perhaps he doesn't feel the way you think he does about it.

[bigtree]

4. or the way he say he feels about it?

That wouldn't be unusual in politics, but I do believe politicians should be challenged to live up to their words and promises.

[VMI Dem]

6. I don't think he gives a shit unless he can benefit politically.

Just my opinion.

[babylonsister]

7. I think you are SO wrong. This man is working for us imo. nt

[sendero]

10. "US"?

I didn't know you were a bankster or insurance magnate. Because the only real work he's done so for has been for them.

[babylonsister]

15. Sorry you feel that way. I could post the link to all the things he's

done that hasn't got much media 'play', but I suspect that would bore you, too. So you vote and support who you want. I know who is at least trying to do the right thing.


And I am very well aware of the dimson years; this man isn't anything like him. He does care and is trying to negotiate what he has to deal with.

But enjoy your disdain, or whatever it is you feel. Good luck finding someone who has your interests at heart. This guy does; he has had to clean up this mess that he was left with.

[sendero]

16. I'm well aware of what he's done..

.. he's thrown peanuts to the middle class and gold bricks to the rich. He is so little different from a Republican I really don't give a rat's ass which party is in power any more, they are all corrupt.

He's got ONE MORE CHANCE to prove he is not a milktoast pantywaist appeaser of the rich, he can expire those tax cuts for the rich only.

IF, IF he does that, I will change my tune somewhat. I'm not holding my breath.

[babylonsister]

19. You aren't aware at all. Every thread of the 'little things' he's done,

you know nothing about. You are just one of those voices who think he's doing nothing. Meh. Have at it, or educate yourself. Your choice. I'm done trying to convince anyone of anything.

Your opinion precludes your reason. Whatever.

[sendero]

44. I've seen the thread..

.. it is full of trivialities people are supposed to care about. I guess some of them are impressed with diddly.

[babylonsister]

30. An ultimatum. Good on you. I hope that makes you feel better.

Me, I just try to vote for the best person who might have my interests at heart. I've got lots more links...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=433&topic_id=375811

Yes We Did! – A Celebration of the Obama Admin and Congress’ Achievements

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=433&topic_id=260364

Accomplishments under less than a year and a half of Obama Presidency

[Forkboy]

14. I think he's overall indifferent to this issue.

Which would be expected if he hadn't claimed he'd be a fierce advocate. I think anyone, even those who truly like Obama, can admit that hasn't been the case. Yes, he's been better than others before him (the lowest of low bars to set), but he seems so reluctant to be what he claimed he would be when he spoke to gay groups directly. He can't do it all by himself, but there's no excuse for his lack of public support for this kind of thing. He has done some good things, don't get me wrong, but when it comes to crunch time on this issue he seems totally uninterested.

For him being a black man, this kind of disconnect still amazes me. But that's religion for ya (which is what I feel drives his beliefs on this).

[babylonsister]

17. I don't think so, Forkboy. I honestly don't think he's 'indifferent' to

any issue; he's too smart. Maybe he's getting bad advice, I don't know. I agree with you, he should be coming out forcefully, and I am not happy that he hasn't. I hope he recognizes finally that he needs to take the high road and finally make this a done deal.

And religion? The 'thing' that he eschews? Hmmm. Maybe.

[bullwinkle428]

8. He could end the discharges right now if he wanted to.

[Forkboy]

9. Well, your first line begs the question, "What does he feel is correct"?

Your second line is even more interesting. I don't buy for a second that he finds it "egregious".

[bigtree]

13. well

. . . I'm a bit too lazy to dig his actual statements up, but I do recall a great deal of empathy shown by Mr. Obama during his campaign toward servicefolks discriminated against by the military policy.

But, I take your point. He needs to be challenged to act on his own (as he is well able), and held accountable for the persistence of the policy in his term. His actions indicate his will.

[LonePirate]

11. He's already turned his back to his base so it's just a matter of time before he turns on them, too.

He's nothing if not consistent.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[babylonsister]

24. You're so cute. What's your solution? Let me guess-nada, and yes,

that's Spanish for 'nada'. :eyes:

[LonePirate]

25. My solution? Sign an EO and force Reid to hold a vote on the bill every single day until Jan 2011

I voted for a leader I thought had some courage and stood up for American fairness. I wouldn't have voted for him if I knew he was going to be as lazy and as spineless as he is while throwing LGBT Americans under the bus like he has.

[babylonsister]

26. Odd you don't have a bad word for the rethugs who shot this down. Or

maybe not. :think:

[Arkana]

32. Yes, just keep screaming "TRAITOR!!!!! UNCLEEEAAAAANNNN!!!!!"

at the top of your lungs.

And you wonder why you're ridiculed.

[ruggerson]

12. bingo

n/t

[FreeState]

20. +1 - this is a sad day for all Americans

It was not just GLBT service members that lost but all Americans and our ideals.

[Skittles]

27. CORRECT

[lonestarnot]

21. Actually, I think that could be the plan.

;)

[AuntPatsy]

22. Agree....

[sabrina 1]

23. This is a situation that requires a strong leader.

Just act like the CIC that he is and issue an order that there will be no more discharges of military personnel who are gay.

[AnArmyVeteran]

29. I have seen no signs that Obama is a strong leader.

I have no idea why Obama is so afraid of doing anything that is bold or has substance. He allows his party to collude with the enemy to water down every piece of legislation without getting a single vote from republicans. I don't get it. Obama says you don't give the keys back to the party that wrecked the car, but that is exactly what Obama keeps doing. He says one thing when he's campaigning and does the opposite when he's in Washington.

I am getting damned tired of all the caving in, the running from republicans, the reacting to fake Faux News stories and the squandering of one opportunity after another. He even allowed the ignorant tea baggers to seize the national dialogue on health care reform and Obama gave up the public option without even a fight. I dont even know who the hell he is any more. He's certainly not the person I worked my ass off for a year to get elected. I was one of his delegates and spent a lot of my own money on his campaign and I feel like I've been betrayed.

If President Obama doesn't find some guts very quickly our entire government will be back in republican hands again by 2012. And if that happens this country is doomed. It cannot survive another day of republican rule. But while Obama says he doesn't want republicans to drive again, it doesn't really matter since he seems to be taking all of his directions on how to drive from republicans sitting in the back seat. If Obama keeps listening to them we will end up back in the ditch and Obama will justifiably get all the blame. He needs to stand up and be a man and a strong leader.

[babylonsister]

35. Yea, he sucks. Let's vote him out. YEA! Who should replace him? nt

[Arkana]

31. He's not an Emperor, he's the President--and an act of Congress

requires another act of Congress to be undone.

If it didn't, do you think FDR would have bothered with a second Constitutional amendment to overturn Prohibition?

[babylonsister]

33. You...

:loveya:

Thanks, or should I say, gracias!

Don't ask!

[Forkboy]

34. While true, Obama could at least show an interest.

If this is being a "fierce advocate" I'd hate to see his version of not giving a fuck.

[Arkana]

36. I'm sure he'll get right on it after he digs us out of two wars and somehow

corrals the economy, saves millions of jobs, and singlehandedly defeats his opposition because the Dems in the Senate and House are too chickenshit to help him.

Not ONCE have I seen anyone who posts this shit take into account the situation this man inherited the day John Roberts mangled the Oath of Office on the rostrum.

[Forkboy]

37. Not once have I seen those who speak out against equal rights act like they really care about them.

[Arkana]

39. "Speak out against equal rights"?

You're probably right--I'd hazard a guess that people who do this probably DON'T care about gay people.

[Forkboy]

40. I'd hazard a guess that a lot of people don't care about equal rights.

Even some who claim they do.

[babylonsister]

38. He handed off the job to some guys in the military; maybe he

feels he shouldn't step on their opinions/toes. I don't know, but I agree, he needs to take a stand. And I think I voiced this earlierwith you in the mix, but OK.

OK, OBAMA SUX Because he hasn't said a word!!!!

Better?

[Forkboy]

41. That's not what I'm looking for from you or others.

OK, OBAMA SUX Because he hasn't said a word!!!!

Is this truly your defense? I'm supposed to take from this that you care about gay rights, about people who go to bed each night without rights that you and I go to bed with? Seriously?

Better? No, even worse. :shrug:

[babylonsister]

42. Forkboy...You are right. What I wrote was lame.

I don't have an answer, but I don't believe the answer is that this Prez is bigoted. I think he has a lot more to wade through than we even know.

Am I supposed to take from you that he's doing the wrong thing, just because? This man doesn't do that. There are reasons we are not privy to.

I think you know that, too.

I can't fathom why he doesn't make a declaration, but I know he's in support of ending DADT. So... I'm waiting, and still a supporter of this Prez.

And you. ;)

[Forkboy]

43. I have to be honest, I don't know what to think of Obama on this one.

Out of all the numerous problems facing us, this seems to be the easiest to stand up for. I don't put much faith in polls, but they all show that this country is ready for equal rights on this (the exception being the biggest of the bigots among us, and why are we bending to their fucking will? Fuck them!). How many studies of soldier's pet fish do we need? Countries around the world are putting us to shame, and making Obama look like a fool on this.

I know you support him, and that's cool, it really is (I'm mixed myself...not thrilled, not full of hatred like I was with Bush the Shitheel). I truly don't hate Obama at all, and even like him in many ways. But on this issue he's flat out wrong, he flat out lied to gay groups to get their vote, and he flat out doesn't really seem to think it's important. The positive moves he's made are good, and I truly don't want to deny those, but let's face it, this isn't an issue high on his agenda. Understandable in some ways. There are many issues facing us that are important. But if equal rights isn't high on the list, what does that even say about where we are as a society? Fairness has to rule above all else, or nothing else you stand for will matter.

[bigtree]

45. sounds righteous . . . I just don't believe you're correct, at least on stopping the discharges

In May 2009, a committee of military law experts at the University of California at Santa Barbara concluded that the President can issue an Executive Order to suspend homosexual conduct discharges . . .

from Palm Center.org: http://www.palmcenter.org/files/active/0/Executive%20Order%20on%20Gay%20Troops%20-%20final.pdf

The President of the United States has authority under the laws of the United States and the Constitution to suspend all investigations, separation proceedings, or other personnel actions conducted under the authority of 10 U.S.C.§ 654 or its implementing regulations..

I.The Laws of the United States.

Federal law recognizes that the President and Congress share authority to govern the military. In fact,by law currently in effect, Congress has already granted the President authority with respect to military promotions, retirements,and separations in a time of national emergency. This authority includes the power to suspend laws such as 10 U.S.C. § 654..Under 10 U.S.C.§ 12305 ((“Authority of the President to Suspend Certain Laws

Relating to Promotion, Retirement, and Separation”), Congress grants the President authority to suspend any provision of law relating to the separation of any member of the armed forces who the President determines is essential to the national security of the United States, during any period of national emergency in which members of a reserve component are serving involuntarily on active duty.

The statute states: Notwithstanding any other provision of law, during any period members of a reserve component are serving on active duty pursuant to an order to active duty under authority of section 12301,12302,or 12304 of this title, the President may suspend any provision of law relating to promotion, retirement, or separation applicable to any member of the armed forces who the President determines is essential to the national security of the United States.

This law is colloquially referred to as “stop-loss” authority, and it has been used to suspend the voluntary separation of members of the military who have reached the end of their enlistment obligation or have qualified for retirement.The law, however, gives the President authority to suspend “any provision of law” relating to separation of members of the armed forces,including involuntary separations under 10 U.S.C.§ 654.

read more (pdf, page 11): http://www.palmcenter.org/files/active/0/Executive%20Order%20on%20Gay%20Troops%20-%20final.pdf



BTW . . . President Franklin D. Roosevelt issued an executive order banning racial discrimination in defense industries and the government.

President Harry Truman issued Executive Order No. 9981 to provide full integration of African Americans in the armed services. And the executive order provided for "equality of treatment and opportunity in the armed forces without regard to race, color, religion, or national origin."
http://gayrights.change.org/blog/view/harry_truman_and_the_fight_to_finally_repeal_dont_ask_dont_tell