First you played the guilt card to get me to vote Democratic this fall

[tavalon]

instead of sitting it out. And really, while I was and am, furious at the Obama Administration and too many Congresscritters to count, after thinking about it for a while, I decided that, even though it was crossing my personal ethics to allow such tactics to be used upon me (being an abuse survivor and knowing abuse games as well as I do, including the guilt game), I would vote this fall. But my line in the sand is GOTV. It's just one step too far. Now, if this administration does a lot more of the walky-walky they did this weekend (Elizabeth Warren) and less of the talky-talky (I could give examples, ad nauseaum) and especially less of the guilting game, I'll get my list and my walking shoes and GOTV.

But, as of now, I have zero tolerance for the guilt the Democrat game. So, knock it off, Obama administration and DUers. I'm not going to sit quietly and take it, anymore.

[Confusious]

1. critters makes them sound warm and fuzzy

slugs more like.

[Gman]

2. Quit trying to hold everyone else hostage

quit your whining and complaining and do the right thing, vote for the Democrats. I don't care what you think it is, people shouldn't have to beg you to do the right thing.

[tavalon]

3. I'm voting a straight Democratic ticket

I said that up front. I also said that now, the same people are trying the same tactics to get me to GOTV and I'm explaining that it won't work on me. People wouldn't have to guilt or beg me into doing the right thing had all of Congress and the Obama administration done what they said they would.

[DirkGently]

4. A fine illustration of the point of the OP. You can't attack people into agreeing with you.

[bobbolink]

70. Attacking is an amazing GOTV tactic, isn't it? I wonder if they burn bags of shit on porches, too.

[RainDog]

9. you're being your own worst enemy here

just saying. not that it will make a difference.

[Individualist]

31. Bullying is such an effective way to get people to vote.

:sarcasm:
:sarcasm:
:sarcasm:

[liberal N proud]

5. Only one comment

How many places in the world would you not have the right/privilege to vote?

Voting is part of citizenship that we have the privilege to enjoy, if you are not voting, you are not enjoying the privilege that so many do not have.

[tavalon]

10. I said I'm voting

What I'm not doing is my usual volunteering and especially GOTV. That's one step to far in the spousal abuse game being played upon us all.

[hendo]

13. I couldn't agree more. n/t

[liberal N proud]

18. And to think I feel bad because I can't be part of GOTV

I will be traveling through the election and will not be able to perform my previous duties.

[Kltpzyxm]

36. I feel the same way

Not rolling out all the stops like I did in '08

[tavalon]

40. Yeah, I busted my ass and my wallet

In the days when Hope and Change sounded like battle cries rather than slick marketing.

[sendero]

57. It is only a privilege..

... when there is a real choice. Other than words, there is very little difference between Obama and the average Republican.

[nashville_brook]

6. big k and r.

[LiberalAndProud]

7. Is there that little room between your senate candidates, really?

I don't mean to browbeat. If there really is very little difference, there isn't much point, is there?


But I look at the senate vote today and realize how very close we came to getting the right thing done. Three votes. We fell three votes short. So fucking close!

:(

[tavalon]

12. Patty Murray is neither here nor there, but she's running against

Dino Rossi, a slimeball of great dimension. It's one of the reasons I finally gave in and agreed to vote.

[LiberalAndProud]

19. geez.

:hug:
I can relate. It is disheartening, isn't it?
I noticed that your state is "leaning Democratic" according to Rassmussen. That's good, because the greater of two evils is usually *really* evil.

NGU

:sigh:

[defendandprotect]

8. Going backwards is no answer ... we're all shocked at this pro-corporate agenda

from the DLC-Raham/Obama White House ---

we need to blast forward -- give them more Democrats and let's limit the alibis and

excuses --

but I think we really need to work for a new presidential candidate in 2012 --

a real liberal/progressive Democrat!

[hendo]

11. I dont think its even possible to oust a president

when they are running for a second term. It isn't as though there is another round of primaries.

[defendandprotect]

15. There have certainly been primary challenges to sitting presidents ....

no reason why not!

[oberliner]

45. Are you kidding?

Ted Kennedy vs. Jimmy Carter - 1980

Of course there are primaries.

[tavalon]

14. Yep, let's vote 'em in just to spite them

I can't wait to see the contortions they'll have to do then to pretend they really are our allies. It will rival a Cirque Du Soleil contortionist.

[defendandprotect]

16. Here's the thing .... there's no where else to go ... UNTIL all liberal/progressives

decide to become a voting bloc to do something else . . .

then, that might be effective --

Until that should ever happen, the rest of us are stuck with this --

that's long been obvious --

So -- let's do it up right -- let's give them MORE --

but mainly we have to keep pushing TO THE LEFT -- and not ever stop!!


Was sickened by Obama's ridicule of liberal/progressives not being pleased with his

"no public option" deform of health care -- after 76%+ of Americans supported single

payer/government run health care!! Even bigger majority of Catholics wanted it --

including reproductive services!

And, yet he mocked liberals/progressives for this while Americans are dying here from

lack of health care -- and while every other nation has managed to do what he seems to

think is the "impossible"???? Really????

[EstimatedProphet]

17. Fine. That's all I would ask. And thank you.

[scheming daemons]

20. Fuck it.... if you're going to hold your vote hostage, you deserve what's coming

I'm not begging you.

You want to let the teabaggers take over the government, fine. Don't cry to me when it happens.



You want to vote, then vote. You don't want to vote, then don't vote. You have all the information in front of you. You (should) know the consequences of the GOP taking over congress. If you're not motivated enough to attempt to stop them, then you deserve them.

[tavalon]

21. Reading comprehension is not your strong suit

Try reading it again. Slowly and carefully.

[MajorChode]

22. Don't blame the receiver when the transmitter is broke

I got the same thing out of your message as did others. If you meant something different, you should work on your writing skills. As it is, you sound like someone who has been divorced 5 times and still doesn't think they are the problem.

Cheers!

[tavalon]

23. Read the part that said "I would vote this fall"

I suppose I could have changed that to I am definitely with no concern, nor regret voting Democratic this fall.

The transmission, where more flowery in this iteration, is the same.

[scheming daemons]

28. Yeah... you're going to vote... but you want to make sure everyone hears you threaten not to vote

I don't give a shit whether you do or dont at this point.


When you cater to a petulant child you end up encouraging more petulance.

[BzaDem]

30. "When you cater to a petulant child you end up encouraging more petulance."

+1.

[w8liftinglady]

24. I'm with you...I am "disgusted" as well...

which is why I have devoted many,many hours to getting Bill White elected here in Texas... both walky and talky(via my paper)
We have to assume some responsibility in making things happen.Politicians Do respond to the majority...we just have to get a significant majority out there.

[NuttyFluffers]

25. denying yourself suffrage is rarely beneficial to one, however...

no one should be expected to "get out the vote." one is your personal suffrage, putting in your voice on how things should be governed around you. the other is about sacrificing your time and effort to promote something (that you currently do not believe in, i assume).

every election cycle there's various seats, propositions, measures, etc. going on -- many of them partisan, still a few more that are not -- and it does not help your best interests to disenfranchise yourself on all items when you really want to express your disgust for just a mere handful. complete abstention is a valid choice, but also a needless sacrifice. i think you can leave a few blanks on the ballot and the world will still receive your message (whether it listens and cares is another story).

and i find it remarkable that you feel any sense of guilt over not trying to 'get out the vote' this time. you must have been a remarkable activist, with high levels of consistency, to feel any sort of regret about sitting out one cycle. no one group should feel owed the efforts of the grassroots. they should be thankful if they receive them at all. it almost sounds like you feel it as your obligation to GOTV -- impressive devotion, but still not true. you owe it to yourself to be who you are -- and if that means not volunteering, well it is your time. no one's comments should make you feel guilty for that.

[tavalon]

41. There have been many posts here on DU stating that very thing

First it was that I would be personally responsible (ludicrous on the face of it) if I didn't vote Democratic and then the Democrats suffered losses. I threw a conniption on that one for a while because anyone who has been abused (child abuse or spousal abuse) knows that game inside and out, but after a while, I realized that while I know I'm being gamed (by the Democrats and by those on DU dealing the guilt card) it really is in my best interest to vote for those who would ignore me and occasionally bruise me than to risk getting the ones who beat the shit out of all of us back in. So, I sucked it up and stated that I would vote as expected, though not without voicing my anger around the Obama administration's continued neglect and occasional abuse.

Then the meme changed to GOTV, not just my vote but my feet on the sidewalk, dammit. And so I wrote this to say, no, that's just one step too far. I've volunteered many a time and was hell on wheels in 2008, thinking I was voting for a great man rather than a slick campaign. I'm pretty disgusted and I'm not interested in being guilted on this one.

BTW, check out my sigline. I still have it. I've seen nothing I would like to change it to, as of yet.

[NuttyFluffers]

64. you're right, a lot of politics mimics abusive power dynamics.

i am fortunate, i live in an area that i love my federal representation -- and it happens to coincide with democratic representatives. i love my Barbaras, Lee and Boxer, and would gladly vote for them. Feinstein, not so much, but that's another story.

however, i would likely rebel from such an abusive situation if i was placed with a "blue dog" (as they are called) and a republican. i can do bad all by myself, i don't need to enable someone else to hurt me AND suffer a sense of betrayal AND feel like i sold out my sense of self. nope, i can suffer under the lash to the point of death instead; you may kill me while i stand, you will never have me on my knees.

life's short and miserable enough, what makes them think i can fear imminent abuse to the point of destruction? i know the end game of entropy, if the republicans are stupid enough to run headlong into it without heed, and no one else is going to apply the brakes or let others off, well i guess we're all driving off a cliff. collaborating with the passive-aggressive abusers against the aggressive abusers just prolongs the abuse. the end game of abuse is freedom: you either run away or die, the end comes regardless. since the end is guaranteed and their reign is fated to end, then there is nothing to fear -- so feel free to rebel and act on your own moral imperative. :)

perhaps i have found too much liberation in a nihilistic perspective. but it helps me stay morally centered and willing to resist, so i guess it can't be all that bad. :hippie:

and i am still so flattered that you retain that sig line even now. let's hope one day it will be replaced with something along the lines of, "it was a dark forced march, but this coming dawn was worth it. free at last!"

[tavalon]

66. "it was a dark forced march, but this coming dawn was worth it. free at last!"

From your computer to God/dess ears!

[Iggo]

26. Just. Vote.

People who don't vote are scum.

[Greyhound]

27. Quite the interesting strategy, isn't it?

:kick: & R

The beatings will continue until moral improves.

[scheming daemons]

29. This OP is the equivalent of holding a gun to your own head and saying "stop, or I'll shoot!"

[tavalon]

51. Yeah, no, you missed the point entirely

But I do have to commend your tireless browbeating using words I never said nor implied. Tenacity can be a virtue. Sometimes. Not this time, but sometimes.

[tavalon]

32. For all of you who didn't and probably still won't understand why the guilt card

is inappropriate and will not work on me and many others, best of luck to you. The thread I'm going to link to at the end of this will show you how it really should be done. Reason, not guilt, is more likely to work.

I'm sad that so many of you have such poor comprehension that you thought I was holding my vote hostage. Unfortunately, in this medium, there's plenty of room for interpretation and misinterpretation.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/David%20Zephyr/70

[Marr]

33. Notice which posters don't even know what "GOTV" means?

It's not very surprising, is it?

[lunatica]

34. Thank you for reconsidering

We need all our votes. I for one can't stand the idea of having 'Congresswoman Fiorina' and 'Governor Whitman' in California's future. Double ugh!

[tavalon]

35. Yeah, I'm replying to myself and no I'm not drunk

It just occurred to me that perhaps one or two of the ten people who derided me for withholding my vote may not know that GOTV is a four letter acronym meaning Get Out The Vote. In other words, until influenced by the other poster I referenced, I was saying that my line in the sand wasn't my vote, but my willingness to pound the pavement.

I'm not sure that would change anyone's comment to me, but if anyone didn't know what that shorthand meant, I hope I've been able to help.

[democracy1st]

38. good for you I've got your back,vote only if you feel like it.

[tavalon]

39. No, I'm voting because my back is against the wall

I was declining GOTV (Get Out The Vote) as my line in the sand. I still have Rahm's (and this administrations) handmarks on my arms, but even though I'm aware of my abused spouse status, the new spouse might just kill me. Stick with the devil you know........

[democracy1st]

47. understands

[Liquorice]

37. I don't think you should vote if you don't want to vote. JMO. That's your right. nt

[TexasObserver]

42. Unrecommend. Flamebait.

Stop accusing other posters, the party, and the administration of abusing you. That's absurd. You demean "abuse" with such trivialization.

If you can't stand to hear arguments for voting, work on your responses to dialog. That's where the problem lies.

[tavalon]

49. I thank you, not for your unrec but for your lack of cowardice

in explaining why you unrecced. I still hate the feature but one of my main reasons for hating it is it's inherent cowardice.

[Morning Dew]

43. Interesting.

Some of the replies in this thread are a stellar display of reading comprehension problems.

Or maybe it's an online extension of those conversations where one person is so intent on saying his piece that he doesn't get far into into the other person's sentence before he's composing his reply.

[tavalon]

50. It must especially hurt for a public school teacher (not necesarily you) work so hard

on reading comp. just to see "adults" failing it right and left.

[Catherina]

44. You are not alone. No more speeches and words. I want action before recommitting. n/t

[Tx4obama]

46. A lot of people only heard what they wanted to hear in 2008

I think many people didn't hear Obama say over and over and over again that change is not easy. That he can't do it alone. That change takes time.
I wish more people would stop blaming Obama for not getting everything done and put the blame on the republicans that are blocking everything that he is trying to do. And also put the blame on the republicans for the two wars, sucky economy, the high unemployment, the deregulation of the oil & financial industries, etc.
If we had 60+ democratic senators in the senate things would be much different.
We must get everyone that we can out to vote for the democrats, in November, otherwise the 'change' will never materialize.

[tavalon]

48. There is more than enough blame to go around

but Obama's cautious ways have in no way made anything easier.

[democracy1st]

52. checkout this democracynow interview

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNihNf_cgUo

[DCBob]

53. Its your choice but if Democrats lose you lose too.

If you are "furioius" now, I cant imagine how you will feel if teabaggers take over this country.

[TBF]

58. Can you explain, with details, how it will be different economically?

Personally I support labor and I don't feel like I have a pony in the race.

[DCBob]

60. No need for details...here's one big difference..

The GOPers plan to cancel all the remaining stimulous. That will greatly hinder what little recovery is happening now. Then they will take that money and give it as tax breaks to the richest 2%. Hardly a recipe for economic recovery.

[TBF]

62. I did recently see one thing that made me happy -

my brother and I pitched in to send my mom her deductible money ($500 - so her senior care would kick in), after she fell in the donut hole with her prescriptions. So then she was set for the next year, but a few weeks later she also received a $250 check from the government. My mom lives on $600/month from social security & a little extra wage working part-time at the local McDonald's. $250 is not insignificant for her - that helped her pay bills.

So I was happy to see that. It's the direction, if Obama can make more progress by directly helping normal everyday people (as opposed to banksters and the like) I don't think we'll have any problem with getting out the vote.

There's still much work to do, but at least I'm starting to see a few positives now.

[NYC Liberal]

54. Obama and his administration HAVE done "a lot more of the walky-walky",

but unfortunately many here on this website have a pathological need to find fault in anything and everything. For anything Obama does, they have some excuse for why it's just not good enough.

Nobody is begging for your vote, by the way. Go vote for who you want to. :shrug:

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

55. I didn't "guilt" you into anything. You do what you feel is best...

I only implored that you not punish down ticket Democrats who want what you want. Do your research and vote for progressives at the local level, as they are sure to aspire to a higher office. But sitting it out does much more harm than good. Better yet, run for office yourself. We need to groom better, more progressive Dems at the grassroots!

At any rate, glad you decided to vote. Get your friends and family to do the same!!! :toast:

[Lost4words]

56. I understand,....nt

[chillspike]

59. Try it your way

Maybe you are right and boycotting the election will work and get the dems to pass more left legislation. I personally am voting democrat anyway.

But I don't think there is anything wrong with you if you are trying a different tactic to get liberals to behave like liberals. I don't hate you. I just think your tactic won't work. But I see nothing wrong with you for trying it. And if later you decide your tactic didn't work, you can always try a different one.


In short, there is no wrong way to be a liberal as long as, ultimately, you are willing to admit when you are wrong and are willing to modify your tactics to produce a better result.

[Skidmore]

61. Abuse? Guilt?

What happened to facts and common sense?

Truth is that the Rs aren't going to do a goddammed thing to improve anyone's life if they get back into power AND that there have been some very significant changes made, regardless of all the glass half empty BS that passes for criticism around these boards. There is always work to do and change, even big change, comes in increments.

[Vinca]

63. You will find it easier to get your buns to the polls if you think of it

as voting against Republicans. I'm mad and disappointed with Dems, but the chances of ever getting anything I, a professional lefty, might want falls to zero with Repubicans.

[Love Bug]

65. Yeah, it's hard to muster the enthusiasm to volunteer

when what we get in return from the Admin are either insults or condescension.

[tavalon]

67. Exactly my point

[Love Bug]

69. I thought it needed to be said again

since so many here have misunderstood your message.

[tavalon]

71. Thanky sai

[cap]

73. the greatest generation and the Tea Partiers got going when the going was tough

and their leadership stank (at least in their opinion).

If we don't win redistricting, we get shut out for 10 years.

[DevonRex]

68. Whatever. nt

[cap]

72. Don't bargain .... just GOTV

Do it for the sake of the redistricting. It's the next 10 years of being locked down in Republican district with no voice. If you sit out, you are hoping that you can play the same game in 2 years.... Mope around, Hope someone better comes along or you are just too pissed to sit around any more. If they dont come along, mope around for a few more years.

You are banking on the fact that in 2 years you will have a choice. How does redistricting look in your neck of the woods?

[woo me with science]

74. Oh sheesh.

FWIW I agree with you about sending a message, but you really should ashcan the repressed memory therapy.

You know it's gotten malignant when EVERYTHING in your life becomes about "the abuse."

[Orangepeel]

75. I am surprised there is no candidate near you that you feel deserves your support

There are a lot of people who represent me who are running for the first time or up for re-election in 2010, from county council to governor. I'll help with some coordinated campaign efforts, but my volunteer time is focused primarily on a state house race.

If you don't want to volunteer, that's your choice, but I'd be really surprised if *nobody* in your area is worthy.

[LoZoccolo]

76. Sounds like you're playing the guilt card with us now.

If you think you're better served by a Republican administration, and don't care that other people aren't, I suppose we can't stop you from being indifferent towards preventing one.