My hair's gray, but I'm not stupid--people who try to take advantage of the elderly.

[flamin lib]

Okay, so I’m shopping for insulation upgrades and this guy comes to my door telling me about this remodeling company that can install radiant barrier and blow-in insulation. Sure, call for an appointment.

I get the call and the guy says, “Will all the decision makers be present?”

I say no, we don’t interview with companies that require that because it sounds like time-share and high pressure. “Oh no sir, we don’t do that!”

I get a call to reschedule. “Will 10:AM work for you?” Yes. “Will your wife be there?” No, we don’t do business with companies that require a decision at the time of presentation.

Second call to reschedule, “We’ll be an hour late, will that be alright?” Yes. “Will (wife by name) be there?” No, we don’t do business with people who require a decision on the spot.

Guy shows up. “Is (wife by name) here?” No, I’ve told everybody who called to schedule that we don’t do business with companies that require a decision on the spot. I’m a retired professional salesman and have sold everything from life insurance to custom electronic components. I’ve gone door to door like you and I’ve negotiated multimillion dollar deals with VPs of international companies. Don’t try to close me.

So the guy does his measurements and gives me the canned pitch complete with the three ring binders and constantly repeated, “Does that sound like something you’d like?” Sure, okay, what’s the proposal?
“Its $7,000 and that includes yada yada yada,” and he gives me a monthly payment or cash option. That’s the choice close. No, I don’t make decisions on the spot.

“I understand it’s a big number, but we offer a “day of demonstration” discount. If we did it for $6000 would you commit today?” as he slides the contract to me with a pen. That’s close number two, the special deal close with a dash of urgency. No, I don’t make decisions on the spot.

“Well, look, you’re retired so maybe you’d let us do a “standby installation. We don’t like having crews standing around with nothing to do, so if we can give you 48 hour notices maybe we can offer a substantial savings. Can you do that?” Yeah, sure. “Let me call my manager for approval.” That’s close number three, the appeal-to-superior-special-just-for-you-deal. No, I don’t make decisions on the spot.

“Okay, when can I follow up?” as he packs his stuff. Give me a week.

It was all I could do to not throw him out of the house. The only reason I didn’t was that we had a political exchange between all the closes. He’s a Libertarian. I’ll post about that later.

[Dappleganger]

1. Wish you would come to my house!

I'm the skeptic-we-don't-really-need-this-get-outta-my-face person. However my husband, has a hard time saying no to certain kinds of people (especially old men who feign wisdom).

It kills me. Ugh.

[flamin lib]

6. There is an art and science to sales. Part psychology, part persistance and all

premeditated.

The steps are simple: Present a feature, explain the benefit and get affirmation that the benefit is good. Then you close; get the deal.

The process is equally simple: Get the customer to repeatedly say yes to easy questions, the last question is "will you buy now" and after saying yes all along it's hard not to say yes again because you've consistently said yes to all the lead-up questions.

Finally there is the close, the coup-de-gras. The simplest is the assumed close; just hand the customer your product and direct them to checkout. Next is the assumed with choice close; offer a choice to buy the product AND an add on. The customer can say no to one and still buy the other. If that doesn't work the added value close comes into play; "I'm not supposed to do this, but if you buy today I'll throw in . . . "

Lots of times you can use the puppy close; let the customer take the product home for "evaluation". It's hard to bring back the "used" item. Car salespeople love this one.

If you do it right and don't deviate from the formula you can make a lot of sales.

[jberryhill]

10. How reliable is this...

My BS detector normally pegs when the salesperson starts telling me how smart I am.

I dunno how "smart" I am, but I do have a ridiculously long string of degrees. I eventually reached the point in life where it hit me that if I can't understand a sales proposition, then the problem is not at my end.

So, the sales person says, in essence "<Confusing Gobbledygook!> See, it's really simple, and you strike me as the kind of intelligent person who can see what a great deal it is!"

With some people, I get the feeling that to ask questions is to say, "No, I'm really not smart, because I have no idea what you just said."

Nobody wants to say that.

I have no self confidence issues around intelligence, and as soon as I'm told how smart I am, I always interject, "I don't know. You might find out today that I'm the dumbest person you have ever met. So, we're going to have to go through this extra slow."

[flamin lib]

12. You've read that bit right. It's the appeal to intellegence gambit

and it's designed to do exactly what you said: forestall hard to answer questions.

[Roon]

23. That reminds me when I was in the ER and reading a reader's digest

The doctor came in the room and said she said, "Ah! You're smart!"

[Bitwit1234]

2. Sometimes the wife has more SNIFF OUT THE CROOK SENSE

than the husband. When my husband was alive we get a call from a company that installed furnaces. The said they would do an inspection for $10.00. Not much but I told my husband from the start it is a scam.

The came and the guy looked at the furnace and came up to my husband and myself and said you need a new furnace. Just look at all this ash that is laying in the bottom of the furnace means the inner layer has burnt off. I am going to call my supervisor he is just a block away at another house and can be here in a half hour.

I took my husband in the living room, the phone was in the kitchen, told him, it's a scam. He said how did I know this man says we need a new furnace. I said bull. The supervisor arrives and said it was a good thing he was so close by so he could look also. Well my husband was all for making the decision on the spot but I said no way would I agree give us time to think it over. They were disappointed but left their card. Well I went downstairs, got the information off the furnace which listed the date the central air conditioner had been installed and the furnace checked,(we had just bought the house 2 years previously). I called the company told them what the man had said and he told me it was a scam. They said that they had installed the air conditioner one year prior to our buying the house (three years ago) and had cleaned and checked the furnace and it was in very good shape. When my husband got home I told him, He was upset the salesmen were crooks and called and just said we didn't want their services.

The sad thing is they tried it on the couple next door who were elderly (that was when I was a lot younger and didn't call myself elderly). He scared them so bad the bought a new furnace. I was talking to them one day and told her about it and she said she wished she had known because they had bought the furnace and had it installed. How could these people do something like this to an old couple.

[wtmusic]

3. Your patience is astounding.

When salesmen make an offer I've already refused a second time, I'm done. Kaput.

[old mark]

4. fl, you should write a book on car sales techniques, and sales manipulation in general.

My dad was a salesman, too, and I have a lot of resistance, but I sometimes fall for the bullshit, and I know many others do, too...

Thanks - rec.

mark

[flamin lib]

13. I've thought about it. I've had formal sales training from

IBM, New York Life, MONY, Olympus Camera and a host of other places you'd not recognize.

At it's most benign it's simply helping people make a decision they really want to make, at it's worst it's manipulation and intimidation.

Like Superman, I've always used my powers for good . . .

[old mark]

19. And like Superman, you may be unique.....nt

[Hassin Bin Sober]

20. Car salesmen are their own worst enemy.

I know. I spent 10 years in the F&I end of the business.

The best thing to do is get out of their way while they cut their own throat. Don't engage them in un-necessary conversation and be able to walk. In fact, make sure you walk at least once- leave and come back. Most dealers won't let you leave with any excess profit on the deal. They know how competitive it is out there.

My boyfriend just purchased a car. He had been shopping around at a particular dealership and had what he thought was a good price on a one year old car with his Mini Cooper convert in trade. They "what if'd" him with another $500 bucks when he left the first time. The boyfriend talked me in to going back with him on a Saturday to pick up the car ready to buy if they gave him the extra "what if" 500 bucks. I told him we were going to do better than that. He wanted to know what I was going to say and my answer was "not a fucking thing". We sat there while they whittled another 1000 in addition to the 500 then got another 300 while we were walking out to go to lunch. The 300 was a waste of their money because we were satisfied but my blood sugar was low so I really needed to eat.

I'm not tooting my own horn. It's just not brain surgery. Our case was a little different because we had a VERY well kept Mini Convert to trade. It had 100k miles but my boyfriend, being a car fanatic, kept it like brand new.

I will say I am losing my touch because I forgot to negotiate the extra set of keys. I should have thought about it up-front but I didn't and they tried to charge him 200 bucks when he went back the following week. The "second set" issue is always a bone of contention between the service department and the sales department. The service desk wants to get full retail for those computer keys AND pay a mechanic to program the key/remote while the sales manager takes heat from the owner when the charges come back on extra keys.

[pipi_k]

24. I'm like a salesperson's worst enemy....

because I'm already suspicious of people who compliment me ("What do they want from me???"), and that from a very young age.


But when someone is actively trying to sell me something, and gets into that patronizing bullshit....that's it. Game over. I know it's bullshit and that as soon as they leave my door (if they get into my home in the first place) they'll be off bullshitting someone else with the same lines.

Nope. Skip the manipulation and fake compliments bullshit. It won't work. As soon as it happens, the sale is dead to me.

[geckosfeet]

5. He got in your front door. A lot farther than he would have got at my house.

[flamin lib]

16. I invited the company to bid and let them rechedule twice because

I'm actively looking into adding radiant barrier and additional insulation to the attic. Sometimes the pitch is ligit, this time it wasn't.

[Ikonoklast]

7. I always counter-offer, and lowball the hell out of it.

I deal with brokers on a daily basis, and to me, it's a game, except I'm the one trying to extort the money out of their pockets.


I love to negotiate, and have never had a problem pissing off a sales rep while I just sit there and smile.

[jberryhill]

8. Most Pathetic Closer Pitch I Ever Heard

I was dealing with a similar situation, and throughout had advised the salesperson that I do not make decisions on the spot, but would call to commit.

His laugh-inducing throw-him-out-of-the-house line was:

"We don't come back on re-visits. Since most customers commit at the first visit, it's not worth it for us to make a second visit."

I said:

"So, let me get this straight. If you have a choice between a 10 minute visit with a 100% guarantee of a contract, and a 1 hour visit with an uncertain outcome, you go for the second option?"

"Yes, because most of our visits result in a contract."

"Well, let's say it is 90%. If you think 1 hour and 90% odds is better than 5 minutes and 100% odds, then I'm not sure you have enough common sense for me to deal with."

I stood up, walked him to the door, and almost had to push him out as he was making a last second appeal at the threshold to my wife, who was barely able not to laugh.

[dixiegrrrrl]

9. Amazing how much money a large snarling, barking dog has saved us.

The fools who manage to find our driveway and follow it to the house rarely get out of the car if the dog is outside, and rarely stay on the porch if he is inside trying to claw thru the door to get at them.
And I never open the door if I do not know who it is.
I will talk thru the window screen.
So far we have watched roof patchers, tree cutters, asphalt layers drive in, and back out.

Oh, and 4 Census workers who never got out of the car but yelled out the window looking for a non-address on our street.
Strangely, we were never counted in the census.

[jberryhill]

11. Buy a couple of Amway products, keep them near your door

And try to sell them to anyone who manages to make it to your door.

If you collect enough Book of Mormon copies from Marriott Hotels, you can give them out to Jehovah's Witnesses.

[flamin lib]

14. I like your devious ways! I gave the RNC a $5

donation 15 years ago. Now I get mailings from the RNC, the RSC, the state party and the county party all at $.42 each. Then I use the postage paid return envelope to send them expired pizza coupons at $.42 each.

I figure I've cost them at least a grand!

[pipi_k]

21. bwahahahhaah!!!! Avon and Tupperware too!

:rofl:

[unblock]

15. mrs. unblock delights in tearing rotten salespeople apart

and i certainly enjoy the show.

we're more than happy to give a nice commission to a salesperson who does the job properly, answers all our questions with complete facts rather than b.s., lays the entire deal out properly, respects our decision-making process and time frame, and so on.

but if a salesperson does anything sneaky or sloppy or ignorantly, she really lets them know just how badly they messed up. not with raising her voice or cursing, but clearly and deliberately letting them know that they shouldn't come to our house without being able to properly answer basic questions, without having the relevant reading materials, or trying to pressure us into committing without giving us time to read, research, compare, analyze, and decide.

[flamin lib]

17. Sales, if done well and honestly, is a noble profession. However,

like all other professions it can be ruthless and hurtful.

It is hard for me to fathom how anyone can take advantage of the infirm or elderly. My Mother-in-law at 80 was abused by phone solicitors to the point of tears. My best day was when I answered the phone for her and solicited enough information to get names and locations of the company and then informing them that I'd be filing charges for stalking if they called again. It was an empty threat but it worked and it sure felt good.

[unblock]

18. good for you.

mrs. unblock is also an expert in tracking down people and company from the comfort of her computer. so if we have called id on some sales company pitching something, she'll find out who the company really was, what complaints there are against them (rumor, better business bureau, legal filings, etc.) and so on.

we like knowing who we're dealing with.

[LiberalAndProud]

22. You're a retired professional salesman. So aren't you just getting some of your own back?

I was 20 the first time I got the pitch you just described. You know what the worst of it is for me? The worst thing is that I know the guy making the pitch is just trying to make a living, and I just wasted two hours of his time.

;(

I learned never to let them in the front door in the first place.

[flamin lib]

25. Getting my own back? Well, no. In forty years of selling everything

from life insurance to electronic components with everybody from Mom & Dad across the dinner table to VPs of international corporations across mahogany conference tables I have always put my client before any gain I might recognize.

I spent five years in real estate before retiring to give daycare to my grand children. The last two years I talked people out of buying because there were so many sub-prime buyers on the market who I knew couldn't keep the houses I could sell them.

Sales, when done with integrity and honesty, is a noble profession and I owe no apology to anyone I've ever done business with.

[LiberalAndProud]

26. I know. There are many people in sales who have a great deal of integrity.

I count my husband among them.

My comment was just stupid snark.

Your description of the sales pitch is just so textbook. My husband and I were often double-teamed. Especially as a young, stupid, just starting out couple, we didn't say no often enough.