We are NOT number one in obesity rates (Again)

[nadinbrzezinski]

Mexico has surpassed us in both adult and child obesity rates according to the OECD.

WHOOHOOO, we are no longer number one!


And it is not because we are even trying...

For those of us who follow this... Mexico and the US have been going back and forth over the last five years... Mexico is TRYING to do something about it... but hey, what can I say?

[w8liftinglady]

1. I still maintain there are genetic factors that affect this.

the diabetes rate for my Hispanic patients has always been larger than my other patient groups.

http://minorityhealth.hhs.gov/templates/content.aspx?lvl=2&lvlID=54&ID=3324

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. You are more than just correct

you do know all the studies done on both sides of the border with Pima Indians, right?

Problem in Mexico is... you guessed it... coke, mickey Ds, and other crappy foods, which is very cheap, very filling... well you know the story.

Here they have now ongoing campaigns about physical fitness and encouraging people to eat vegies and fruits in season instead of the crap.

[w8liftinglady]

3. I have seen that problem with my patients in the US

...and -for the record-I LOVE Mexican food-almost as much as I do italian...but it is a very high carb diet.when it's cheaper to buy tortillas,tripe,and jarritos ... what would you do if you had little cash?

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. The tortillas, beans, chiles and squash are not the issue

truly. If Mexicans ate that traditional diet that has over 10K years of history it would be a different story. Add the Jarritos... the tripe that is not precisely low fat, and other European influences. Oh and don't forget the combo at Mickey Ds for 36 pesos (yes you guessed it, big mac, large fries and soda...)

I remember having that discussion with the Head of the IMSS in Tijuana oh 20 years ago, when they started en force... I predicted this problem and was called crazy. As I jocked with him, as he activated our ALS rig a week before Burger King opened... we will be busy.

He said I was nuts. Ten years later he apologized.

[w8liftinglady]

12. lol..see how out of the loop I am?I thought that was OUR "excuse"

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. In mexico the relationship is far clearer than in the US

when I was growing up there was ONE KFC in Acapulco... and one Pizza Hut... both were the ANNUAL treat. You see parents took us to Acapulco and once a year they took us to KFC while there ONCE, and Pizza Hut ONCE...

20 or so years ago they came into mexico en force, and obesity rates skyrocketed. So this generation of young adults and kids... oy.

[K8-EEE]

21. I agree! The pre-columbian diet was very healthy

Grains like quinao, corn tortillas, tomatoes, chilies and beans are all very healthy.

Our fast food has invaded Mexico, number one, and number two the "euro" additions to their diet (cheese, beer, flour.)

I feel a lot better since I started a low-sodium diet and one thing I've done away with is bread. I'll eat pasta (no sodium) but bread almost always has over 200 mg sodium a slice -- corn tortillas have less calories, processed ingredients (none at all with mine) and like 15 mg sodium for two. So I've been good bye sandwiches and hello tacos for a while now and my blood pressure is back down!

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. I cannot eat gluten so we live on rice

quinoa (south American grain, full protein) one of these days I'm going to cook amaranth, and of course corn.

The only problem, and that one qualify it, is niacin. I might not be getting enough in my diet. Which means one of these days I'm going to borrow my sister's diet analysis program and see if I am getting enough.

Oh and tortilla, due to the process, is as good a source of calcium as a glass of milk.

[Warpy]

4. Obesity has followed the classic pattern of an infectious epidemic

it started around the Gulf of Mexico and has progressed through the US and Mexico, down into the rest of Central America. Whether or not an actual infectious agent is the cause or this is simple coincidence is moot.

Fat people can eat very carefully and stay fat. Thin people can eat an enormous amount of junk and stay thin. There is no cure for obesity since >90% gain back the weight they lost within 5 years, whether they lose it through semi starvation or surgery. Nobody wants to be fat. If they had a real choice in the matter, they wouldn't be fat.

There is something else at work.

[w8liftinglady]

5. I agree,Warpy...when I see it in youth

Kids with type-2 diabetes and obesity...there is more than the generic "food" blame at hand.

[SoCalDem]

7. I watched a show the other night about soda pop

and they mentioned that "in the 80s" MOST soda companies stopped using cane sugar (and started with HFCS)....and the 80's was also the decade that saw the BOOM in fast foods & jumbo sizing, as well as "most moms having outside work"..

It could be a confluence of all those factors..

no one at home watching what kids eat after school
busy parents handing lunch money to kids instead of a small home made lunch
fast foods at school and at home for dinner (and for snacks)
no more taxes folks cutting school funding..schools then looked to pepsi/Coke/TacoBell/PizzaHut for funding
stress can trigger overeating and we are all under lots of stress & have been for a while now

parents are afraid to let their kids wander the neighborhoods, so they feed them goodies & keep them indoors playing video games & watching tv ..which happens to be loaded up with commercials for sweet/fat foods..

As Mexican families move away from the hand-to-mouth farming of their ancestors & into the cities, they have to buy food..and cheap food is often not good for them:(

[BlueCheese]

11. Doesn't soda in Mexico use cane sugar?

I do remember that a tour guide in Mexico once told us that Mexicans consume more soda pop than anyone else. I'm not sure where he got his numbers, but that's one factoid. Then again, if I had access to that carbonated lemonade they have there I'd probably drink a lot of it too.

[SoCalDem]

13. I think Coke does, but I don't know about others

manufacturers use pretty much whatever's cheapest these days.. Markets in cities in Mexico have the same foods we have,, they even have walmarts now:(

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Superama, Aurrera, Walmart= same thing

so you can't avoid it.

Also over the last 20 or so years we have had the entry of KFC enforce, as well as Pizza Hut, Mickey Ds, and Burget King... oh and Karls Jr. Add to that Starbucks of course... and comida rapida (fast food) as well as sedentary lifestyles, et al.

20 years ago I took care of ONE morbidly obese patient (who happened to be American)... these days it is a common problem in Mexico or the US.

I trained one EMT who has obese, not morbidly obese, these days this is a problem.

And like the US... the poorer the income the larger the girth.

[Leftist Agitator]

15. I like your username!

And a belated welcome to DU!

:hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. Since my "addiction:" is a light version of

one I developed a taste for while in EMS... I honestly have not read ingredients.

That said things like salad dressings that have High Fructose Corn Syrup in the states have cane sugar in Mexico.

And gluten is not hidden in just about everything.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Insecticides will be found to be

part of the issue... mark my words.

[Warpy]

9. They very well could be, but that doesn't explain the pattern fully.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. No but it will be a major factor

just because of how they function in the human body.

[kstewart33]

14. No, it's not just metabolic rates.

I've always been thin, but if I go overboard with the calories, I gain weight.

Watch 'Biggest Loser.' The problem with a lot of obese people is food addiction. For them, food is a drug, much like coke or alcohol. And losing weight is terribly difficult for them to do.

I watch the show because it's inspiring. Pure and simple, it's people beating their addiction.

[eridani]

24. I'm a multiple substance abuser myself

I'm addicted to food, water and oxygen.

[Warpy]

36. If it floats your boat to believe that, go ahead

but epidemiologists think about things quite a bit differently, as do bariatricians and all know something else is at work.

[REP]

26. No no no. Fat people looooove being fat; need to be told they're fat and are usually really stupid

:sarcasm:

While bad food coupled with sedentary, high stress jobs are part of the puzzle, there is definitely more going on.

[Odin2005]

37. That is a very interesting observation.

Something that makes you go "hmmmmm..."

Certainly fits me. I've been trying to eat well for 4 years now, I'm still 280. My dietitian suggested that I have a deficiency in a metabolite called Carnitine, important in metabolizing the "marbling" fat in your muscles; it is associated with obesity and low energy. Turns out that her suspicions were corect and I've been put on a Carnitine supplement

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. I'll share

bad thyroid... (and avandia did not help)

These days she also put me on Vit D...

And let's not go into the Celiac Like, ok the Diabetes Type II, thanks dad...

But that makes losing harder than hades at this stage of the disease.

Yes, there is something going on...

So far we have several suspects:

A virus... insecticides... in the US High Frucotose Corn Syrup. Fact is... it is the last generation where it exploded.

When we finally figure this out... I am betting on multifactorial and it will include plastics too.

[Warpy]

39. It's not my observation

it's one I picked up from epidemiologists writing in scholarly journals for the delight and edification of other epidemiologists.

That's what a lot of people don't understand: if your body has been programmed to carry that extra weight, especially if you're older, going on a severely curtailed deficiency diet makes you ill and very tired, not fashionably lean. It doesn't budge, in other words.

Genetically determined carnitine deficiency is certainly well known. If the supplement can reverse it for you, that's great news.

[spanone]

10. i'm sure we'll try harder next year

[joeybee12]

18. So, there are now more McDonald's in Mexico than here? n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Ok here is the deal

where my parents have coffee... there is one starbucks. We go to the local coffee shop.

On the way there is one Mickey Ds, one Krispy Kreme, one Karls Jr, and one Burger king... need I mention Cosco? Near where they live there are several of those fine establishments as well.

And the adds are just about everywhere.

[The Straight Story]

25. Even if we were, it is no one's business. It is like saying " we are number X in abortions"

Your body, your choice. Period. Those who wish to differ please let us know why you think other peoples' choices in their lives should be controlled by someone else (so that we can apply the same standards to you and your life).

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Straight Story]

28. Nice attempt at labeling to deflect the simple facts

Would you be opposed to abortion if there were dollars being lost because of it? Or would you stand for freedom of choice?

If you are against freedom of choice because of money just say so - oh wait, you just did.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. The simple fact is that you are a left wing libertarian

the other simple fact is that data such as abortion rates are also compiled in countries where it is legal, and approximated in countries where it is not. In countries where it is legal it is part of national health data, in countries where it is not... well you see ilegal abortions have some very nasty side effects, such as generalized sepsis and death... why I AM all for legal abortion... see knowing how a health system works don't mean I am against choice.

That is BASIC public health data, like it or not. It has nothing to do with choice or freedom, as your understanding of it is very inexact. These pieces of data are just gathered, that is a fucking fact, live with it, or not. I don't give a shit. I have done this public health work, and people like you would and are a problem when we are trying to do silly shit like public health surveys...

You got no clue about health policy... live with it. That is also a fact.

[The Straight Story]

30. Another attempt at labeling

I am no libertarian, I am for freedom of choice when it comes to your own body. Period. I don't tie peoples' choices to money - cash does not take precedence over choice to me. If it does to you, then just say "Money is a higher priority than choice" and be done with it.

when money becomes more important than choice I have a problem with it - if that is what you call libertarian then I guess I will go on record as being one. I don't like others making choices for me based on cash. Maybe you do.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Straight Story]

32. If you favor policy restricting choices based on financial impacts of choices

You think money is more important.

Obesity, smoking, drinking, abortion, etc - should not be restricted by a federal government based on how much money it costs.

I am no libertarian for believing in freedom to choose - if you believe that then I have to ask what you think freedom really is.

I don't want the government telling me what to do with my body or taxing my choices more because of 'cost' - and I don't want them making any policies based on my freedom of choices.

it is NONE of their business. Period. If you think it is, let us know why.

And note - I am not labeling you in any way here. If you think the federal government should be able to tell people how to live based on financial impact please let us know why you think that is a good idea.

[kwassa]

33. You made this too easy

I don't want the government telling me what to do with my body or taxing my choices more because of 'cost' - and I don't want them making any policies based on my freedom of choices.

it is NONE of their business. Period. If you think it is, let us know why.

I do want my government making choices because of cost.

Why should my tax dollars pay for medical costs for lifestyle illnesses?

Lung cancer caused by a life time of smoking?

Type 2 diabetes caused by bad dietary habits and a lack of exercise?

a couple of months back, a major health insurance company stated that 40% of its payouts were for care for diabetics. Why should we pay for the bad behavior of others?

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. You are talking of policy matters

granted, many type one diabetics got that from bad genes, and that goes for type two diabetics too... but as a type two diabetic I got a choice... TAKE CARE OF MY BODY, or not.

Now smokers, that is fully, 100% a lifestyle choice.

(And I suspect, from a policy perspective, that the explosion of diabetes and obesity is also tied to something we are collectively putting in the food... and if and when research finds this to be the case, I want the companies responsible also TAXED for it.)

I might add... I GAINED a lot of weight when I was put on Avandia, took me over three years to lose it. That was NOT about what I ate, at all. I want the company that made that piece of shit to be fined and for it to be taken off the market. Why that has not happened is beyond me... (Now that is all about money, but like Europe that shit should simply be pulled off the market, period)

[The Straight Story]

40. So if the govt studies show abortion and sex in general cost more

Are you going to want to ban such things?

When you depend on the govt, and your tax dollars sent to them, you are giving them the green light to control you and your life.

If you are ok with others controlling your life and choices because of money then just say so.

I am not about to sell off my freedoms. Maybe yours have a price tag sitting on them, mine don't.

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. Actually, not that you understand this, general health studies

show that LEGAL abortion COSTS less... so if we based all just on cost... guess what it would be legal all over the world.

Every botched abortion is extremely costly...

People who want to take choice away are not doing it on a cost basis... but on their own skewed image of morality.

Oh and health studies also show that birth control systems such as condoms are far less costly, due to the spread of venereal diseases or rather the prevention of such. So if we based all this on cost... guess what? Nobody would be fighting the giving away of condoms as a national health policy.

Surprised?

It has NOTHING to do with money.

[kwassa]

45. You are your government

as a taxpayer and as a voter. The government is your elected representatives.

With freedom comes responsibility. Those who live an irresponsible lifestyle, and expect responsible people to pay for their bad behavior, bear no special protection in my book.

This has nothing to do with cost, this has everything to do with personal responsibility and making good choices.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Again who mentioned anything about money?

You got an issue with policy and research, your problem, not mine.

Oh and let me add something else. The medical system makes those choices every day of the week and it don't matter if it is Sunday. What do you think Triage is? You telling me that decisions based on who gets treatment when in an ER are not done on medical need\ outcome possibilities?

I got news for you, they are, and it has precious little to do with what you think freedom is.

As a medic I used Triage protocols as well to decide who and in what order they were treated. I guess it was none of my bidness. :sarcasm:

This is real life... and in real life choices ARE MADE all the time. You got a problem with that? Then please by all means leave organized society.

As to labeling you... I even showed you a LINK as to WHY. It's got a name. I am a social democrat... you may want to google that up and get some education while at it. IF you call me a social democrat I got no problem with it... I am in good company... (Bernie Sanders)...

But I am also fully cognizant that in organized society people do things like this all the time... and yes... it is the bidness of government to keep track of health status for a population. Yes, it is their bidness to create policy based on how to improve the health status of a population... it is quite in the purview of modern governments, going back to the first smallpox vaccination campaigns oh back in the early 19th century. IT is PUBLIC health... and their meddling has improved your life... see clean water, for example. Or you want them not to be involved in that too?

As I said what you think freedom is quite skewed.

[The Straight Story]

41. "As I said what you think freedom is quite skewed. "

I think freedom is something that a government does not give, it is something inherent.

When you start tying benefits to people, you open the door to control. You smoke, drink, eat things others think you should not? Should those choices be controlled by others?

The whole mess is quite simple - we want to have a universal health plan - and some want to have it at the cost of freedom of choice. We want to force people into a health care plan and then tell them that abortion is not an option because it can lead to other health problems down the road - and that may cost the tax payers more, so we should outlaw abortion (don't want one, don't have sex). Your choices are paid for by others so they get to tell you how to live.

Maybe you are fine with others telling you how to live, some are not (you keep calling those folks libertarians - I don't see pro-choice people as libertarians myself).

When you make people = $$ you lose freedoms. I am not ok with that, anymore than I am OK with the military saying "Letting gays serve openly might cost us recruits and therefore will cost us more money in the long run"

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. You are equating money to freedom

problem is policy decisions ARE made on what resources you have... this is reality.

And if and WHEN we get single payer as a health care system you can bet your sweet ass that it will be a resource based system.

You don't get why. I guess for you if I get an 85 year old with a femur fracture and a five year old with a femur fracture, you'll want them taken care off the same way. If I have the resources... sure... if not... given all other things equal... the five year old gets priority.

That is the real world.

And it has nothing to do with freedom.

[mucifer]

44. Factory farms