Well, it's final... according to Wolf Blitzer... JFK murder was NOT plot....

[Flubadubya]

Why am I not surprised by this... typical S-nooooze reporting. Thanks Wolf, p:tehhiawehf;ahweahengka;h"... Oooooh, I am so THRILLLED!!!! :grr:

[AndyA]

1. Oh good. Well then, that's that. We can bury this one forever now.

It's relegated to history. If Blitzer says so, it must be so... :eyes:

[seemslikeadream]

2. 4 people in the dungeon

will be so thrilled to hear this


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=136384&mesg_id=136384

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Octafish]

18. America lost more than that, Comandante.

The future that could have been was stolen.

In its place, we got, in part:

Vietnam
Chile
Watergate
October Surprise
El Salvador
Iran-Contra
S&L Looting
Treasury Bankrupted
Iraqgate
BCCI
Iran-Contra
Noriega Drug Inc
INSLAW PROMIS
Phony Iraq War I
Treasury Bankrupted II
Selection 2000
ENRON Energy Policy
9/11
Trashed Constitution
Phony Iraq War II
Plame Treason Nuclear Proliferation
Selection 2004
Treasury Bankrupted III

Thanks to JFK, America went to the moon.
Imagine what kind of other "impossible" things we could have achieved by now.

Peace.
Prosperity.
Justice.
Joy..er, Happiness.

We used to be able to dream big...

¡Oiga! ¡A hearty welcome to DU, ComandanteChe! ¡Viva la revolucion!

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

29. Great post.

[pa28]

34. Wonderful posting.

Looking at your list I notice there is one name linked with almost every item.

[Octafish]

40. Bush.

Thanks for noticing, pa28.

Some more on the subject of the Bush Family Evil Empire:




Know your BFEE: Spawn of Wall Street and the Third Reich

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=872755


Know your BFEE: Money Trumps Peace. Always.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x250447


Know your BFEE: They kill good soldiers like Col. Ted Westhusing for profit...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x126094


Know your BFEE: America’s Ruling Gangster Class

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2969845


Know your BFEE: Robert Gates did more than keep the doors open at BCCI

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2810465


Know your BFEE: The Fellowship ‘Preys’ for America

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2591203&mesg_id=2591203


Sink the BFEE: Foley gives us Congress. Condi sends 'em to prison.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2401056


Beat the BFEE: Poppy’s CIA warned about terror plots and did not stop them

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2418621


Know your BFEE: Los Amigos de Bush

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2214484


Know your BFEE: Neil Bush hangs out with Russian Mafiya Godfather

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2082945


Know your BFEE: Poppy Bush was in Dallas the day JFK was assassinated.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1946852


Know your BFEE: Nazis couldn’t win WWII, so they backed Bushes.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1547206&mesg_id=1547206


Know your BFEE: At every turn, JFK was opposed by War Party

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1366764


Know your BFEE: Lies Are the Currency of Their Realm

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1170858


Know your BFEE: Cheney & Halliburton Sold Iran Nuke Technology

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=928662


Know your BFEE: The Stench of Moussaoui Permeates the Octopus

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=757860&mesg_id=757860


Know your BFEE: Moussaoui Must Die for Bush and 'His' Government

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=602016


Know your BFEE: Alito is just another word for Mussolini

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=266685


What the heck, this belongs here, too:

BFEE Turd Daniel Pipes tied to DANISH CARTOONS

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=417774


Know your BFEE: Like a NAZI

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=133897


Know your BFEE: The China-Bush Axis

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5333644


Know your BFEE: Bush and bin Laden Clans Together in Bed

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5280903


Know your BFEE: Libby Is the First Big BFEE Turd to Go Down

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5233814


Know your BFEE: WHIG (White House Iraq Group) made phony case for Iraq War

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5077403


Know your BFEE: The Secret Government

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5027094


Know your BFEE: Reinhard Gehlen

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4863411&mesg_id=4863411


Know your BFEE: Poppy Bush Armed Saddam

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4813493


Know your BFEE: Killer Businessmen who put Power and Profit before Country

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4401300


Know your BFEE: Nixon Threatened to Nuke Vietnam

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3953519


Know your BFEE: Corrupt Craftsmen Hoover and Dulles

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3908104


Know your BFEE: Poppy’s CIA Made Saddam Into the Butcher of Baghdad

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3853409


Know your BFEE: Hitler’s Bankers Shaped Vietnam War

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3832033&mesg_id=3832033&page=


Know your BFEE: Merchants of Death

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3743890


Know your BFEE: R. James Woolsey, Turd of War

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3699042


Know your BFEE: Sneering Dick Cheney, Superturd-Superrich-Supercrook

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3627538


Know your BFEE: Bush Lied America into War

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3601654


Know your BFEE: James R Bath – Bush – bin Laden Link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3571293&mesg_id=3571293&page=


Know your BFEE: War Profiteers

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3493251


Know your BFEE: Dead Men Tell No Tales

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3389867


Know your BFEE: Bush and bin Laden Clans Together in Bed

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5280903


Know your BFEE: Rev. Sun Myung Moon OWNS Poppy Bush

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3355939


Know your BFEE: Homeland Czar & Petro-Turd Bernie Kerik

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2788428


Know your BFEE: American Children Used in Radiation Experiments

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3312956


Know your BFEE: Eugenics and the NAZIs - The California Connection

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2511192


Know your BFEE: The Barreling Bushes

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2472759


Know your BFEE: A Crime Line of Treason

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2748315


Know your BFEE: How Smirko Got Rich

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2529964


Know your BFEE: George W Bush did "community service" at Project P.U.L.L.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2956067


Know your BFEE: Vote Suppressor Supreme, the Turd Bill Rehnquist

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2414083


Know your BFEE: George W Bush Knew 9-11 Was Coming and Did NOTHING!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2404049


Know your BFEE: Oliver North, Drug Dealer

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2396787


Know your BFEE: Pat Robertson Incorporated a Gold Mine with a Terrorist

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2397004



These aren’t labeled “Know Your BFEE,” but they’re meant in the same spirit:

Poppy Bush Involved in JFK Assassination -- BFEE's Spooked!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3274455


Vietnam and Iraq Wars Started by Same People

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3193142


JFK Would NEVER Have Fallen for Phony INTEL!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5501005&mesg_id=5501005


Plame Affair makes clear: USA is run by TRAITORS.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4200507

BFEE Is More than Capable of Bombing Their Own Countrymen

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4045149

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x46709



And for all my friends in those hard-to-reach areas:

A Short History of Conspiracy Theory

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4086438

[pa28]

62. Bookmarking n/t

[rasputin1952]

41. I recall those years..It took great courage to sit atop a bomb in

such a tiny capsule Friendship 7...:scared:

There are some things I wouldn't do, and that is one of them, but I'm sure glad the Astronauts did...:)

[rasputin1952]

22. I think we lost our virginity the day the first shot was

fired at Ft. Sumter...:(

[dsa]

47. i was thinking the same thing

every generation has its own "loss of virginity" so to speak. maybe my parents' came in november 1963 but my generation's came on 9/11. and my grandparents' came on december 7 or the start of the great depression.

[dsa]

3. as a physicist

it's obvious kennedy was shot from behind and not from the grassy knoll. and the "single bullet theory" also has to be true. there's no other way it could have happened.

[PCIntern]

4. As a dentist,

there is no question that he was shot from multiple points by at least three shooters. There is no other way it could have happened.

[parasim]

5. As a horticulturist,

I'm just glad to see that the grassy knoll is off the hook.

[Louis C. Phurye]

16. As a lay philosopher,

If a bullet is fired from the grassy knoll, and nobody sees it, does it make a sound?

[dsa]

6. remind me never

to get a root canal from this perceptive chap.

[pa28]

9. Lacking the blockbuster evidence we'll probably never have I can't disagree with you.

However, you might be the person to answer the two nagging questions I have that seem like a matter of physics.

Is there a explanation as to why Kennedy's head was thrown backward even though the fatal bullet was supposedly fired from behind?

Also, why is it that a large amount of material from the wound ended up behind Kennedy? It seemed to behave like an exit wound in the back.

[rasputin1952]

23. Another phyics question...How can a bullet GAIN weight after

being fired?

One more, how can a Mannlicher-Carcano 6.5 do such devastaing damege, regardless of where it is fired from. Those rifles were notorious for being pieces of crap, and 2nd's or 3rd's being sold as "war surplus", were the worst of the lot and about the only ones available in the US. This was not some Match Remington that Oswald supposedly used, it was better at beating people to death when used as a club, than as a firearm.

[dsa]

44. it was a short-range shot

oswald was trained as a sniper and his records show he was at least an average shot and probably much better than average. he fired from short range, well within the capabilities of any contemporary sniper rifle. his shots have been duplicated by many other sharp-shooters using identical rifles. they have said it was actually a pretty easy thing to do, especially the last shot when they could get the best angle on kennedy's head.

there's a couple of really good shows on the discovery or history channels about this subject. one recreated the "magic bullet" shot and duplicated the injuries to replica human bodies as well as the condition of the bullet afterward almost exactly. the other one goes through just about every jfk conspiracy theory and methodically destroys each one.

as for the bullet "gaining weight," i have never heard this claim before and don;t know anything about it. how can someone know how much the bullet weighed in the first place anyway? did oswald weigh it on a postal scale and write it down for the fbi to find later?!

[rasputin1952]

48. The "Magic Bullet", the one found on the stretcher that was

said to have fell out of Connelly, had some small pieces missing from it, when the bullet was reconstructed, it had gained a couple of mg's. Since that bullet was the "pristine bullet" that supposedly went through Kennedy's back/throat and Connelly's back/chest/wrist, it seemed unlikely, although not impossible to be in such fine condition. When the slivers were taken from Connelly's wrist, and added to the weight of the bullet that was apparently lodged there for some time, the bullet had gained weight...highly unlikely to say the least...x(

Another aspect of the situation was that one bullet hit the curb, another hit a pillar that held up the overpass, and two that hit Kennedy...4 bullets, not 3. Watch the films that still exist from that day, in the background, you will see a man running in the opposite direction, from the pillar toward the center of Dealey Plaza, he had been struck in the face by concrete from the bullet that struck that pillar.

Curiosity has me asking why the man and woman, w/the children on the grass are staring at the Grassy Knoll? Why are cops heading directly there? Why did one witness, a soldier standing w/the cfence swear that a shot passed close to his ear, from the fence to the car. He was transfered w/in 36 hours, just in time to get him from being a superior witness?

Too many loose strings...:)

[dsa]

54. the bullet was not "pristine"

this is one of the most oft-stated misconceptions of the conspiracy crowd. here's a picture of it viewed end on and you can see it has been considerably deformed.



there is no evidence of more than three bullets. the first shot missed, the second hit kennedy's neck and gov. connally, and the third hit kennedy's head. the shot that missed most likely struck the overpass and produced shards of concrete that injured a bystander named james tague. it is unclear whether the damage to the curb was related to the shooting or already existed before the assassination. if it is related, the curb is directly in front of the damage to the overpass and a single bullet could have easily struck the curb and ricocheted into the overpass. or a fragment from the bullet when it broke apart could have ricocheted back into the curb. either possibility is more likely than two separate bullets hitting so close together when oswald was aiming at a moving object at a rapidly changing angle.

as for the sounds, the plaza is surrounded by buildings and walls that would have produced echoes from the rifle shots. these echoes could have easily confused bystanders and sounded like they came from a different direction. when asked where the shots came from, zapruder himself said, "...there was too much reverberation. There was an echo which gave me a sound all over..." the policemen closest to kennedy stated they heard shots coming only from the depository building and began investigating it literally within seconds of the last shot. witness claims are very confused, as described here:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/shots.htm

the man who claimed to hear a bullet whizzing past his ear was named gordon arnold. his story is riddled with inconsistencies and contradictions, as explained in the four-part article:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/arnold1.htm

he sounds like a guy who wanted to be intimately connected to the assassination but his story just doesn't add up. it's most likely he wasn't even there at all.

[rasputin1952]

58. Ididn't name it the "pristine bullett", the press did, and a rear

pic, greatly magnified does not cut it as showing the damage that have been done after striking 2 bodies. It indeed was not "pristine" of course, it had been fired, and woujld have held many marks regarless, but that still no t explain the fragments taken from Connelly's wrist, and the fragments missing from the bullet itself. It is impossible for a bullet to gain weight, no matter how small a gain it is.

As for Gordon Arnold, there is a pic of him standing at Dealey, just before the assassination, hard to say he wasn't there. The couple that were by the "coke bottle took off immediately after the firing, they have were looking at the fence as they ran. Tague said the bullet struck the concrete and whizzed away, more than a "fragment did that. The night of 23Nov, the piece of curb was taken away and repalced w/fresh concrete. I doubt they would have done that if it were merely a scar from say a wheel of a truck that just happened to hit it.

All of what you posted above does not "prove" that Oswald fired the shots alone, they have been around since the assassination, just as what I have posted has not "proven" there was a conspiracy. The entire case is open for specualtion, and both sides do it with great zeal.

[dsa]

63. citation?

i still don't understand this comment about the bullet "gaining weight." gained weight compared to what? i also tried looking this subject up and the only reference i could find to this supposed fact was another one of your posts on this very site. can you point to any site, book, article, etc. corroborating your claim?

if you read the site i posted, you'll see that several photos were taken of the spot where arnold claimed to have been assaulted by mysterious persons who confiscated his film shortly after the shooting, but not one of these photos shows him or anyone else there. here's the bottom line:

"Yet, if Gordon Arnold's story is true, no one took notice of a soldier being robbed at gunpoint in broad daylight by two police officers, one of whom was crying; and none of the numerous photographers present captured Arnold or his confrontation with the police officers on film."

[dsa]

43. it's all based on muscular reaction

kennedy's chin was tilted down toward his chest because of the bullet that struck his neck. when he was then hit in the head, his natural reflex was to throw his head back. a bullet doesn't "push" you one was or another--body motion is dictated by involuntary muscular reflex and can vary depending on what position a person is in and where the bullet strikes.

now this part gets kind of gory so be warned if you are squeamish. if you look at the zapruder film and photographs at the moment of the head shot, you can see the front of kennedy's head opening up and the blood/tissue/brain matter flying forward. there's an expanding cloud of material that floats in mid air for several seconds. as the car moved forward, some of this material probably fell onto the back of it as you describe. but the pictures don't lie--the front of his head clearly is the part that opens up like an exit wound.

here's some photos that are kind of small but help demonstrate what i'm describing:



and a stabilized video of the zapruder film

http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/zapruder.htm

[pa28]

49. Thanks I'll look through it.

This has always been a sticking point for me.

[rasputin1952]

64. There are some frames missing from the original film 2 or 3,

that had to be edited out at some point.

As for the pic's...look closely, from what you posted, there are discrepancies in some of the movements right after #10 above, it appears the film has a frame or two missing.

But still it all comes down to their is no "proof" either way, and a ;lot of questions exist on both sides of this issue.

Just for jollies, how could Oswald have handled that rifle, and no prints showed up that belonged to Oswald? OK, he might have wiped it clean while going to hide it, but then suddenly a clear palm print showed up after the FBI was in the ER w/Oswald's body...and the two Agents were alone w/the body for about a half hour. Within a couple of hours, the FBI says it has a single palm print from Oswald on the Carcano, just one, and it is not smudged, it is clear as can be... Even if this is legit, just the way it came about opens up a whole can of ugly little worms.

One other thing, take a look at the "Backyard Pic" of Oswald. All of the shadows in the pic are angular, showing the sun was at Oswald's left. However, just under Oswald's nose, the pic shows that the sun was directly overhead, this is an impossibility, unless the space time continuum was somehow in distorted at that spot in his backyard, or, there were two suns that day.

Just something to think about. I have an open mind, and I try to look a tall of the evidence that is available. Putting it all together is more difficult, and I can be prone to error as well. But I try very hard to be objective about this whole situation, it is the only conspiracy theory I am interested in, because of the massive implications and the direction our nation took after the assassination.

The subject si a very interesting one, and there might, someday, be definitive evidence one way or the other that will finally clear up the whole mess...:)

[H2O Man]

10. Not. n/t

[Rex]

11. That's funny.

Thanks, I need that.

[Awsi Dooger]

14. I don't know about physics

But you're absolutely correct about how it happened. DU thrills to embrace the loony tune theories. I've been here since 2002 and it's precious how the conspiracy crew leaps onto any new version even if it contradicts the previous gem.

I've said it many times. I just wish the people who believe in the disjointed crap made the daily betting lines. It's hysterical ignorance to apply so many variables and pretend that makes it more likely and not overwhelmingly less likely.

Most of all, I wish we had an actual audio and video tape of what happened that day in Dallas. Suddenly revealed with camera after camera at every relevant angle. It may be gruesome to witness but it would shut up the conspiracy crackpots once and for all.

Actually, it wouldn't. They'd find some desperate reason to reject it. :rofl:

[rasputin1952]

26. I guess you forgot about the House Committee on

Assassinations that came to the conclusion that "most likely" there were 4 shots in Dealey Plaza that day. I know that's not "proof", but there is no way one can "prove" Oswald was the lone assassin. All there is the Warren Report, and a few people who have tried to "prove it, but have left many questions unanswered.

Want to see something, watch the body language of Oswald when he is informed by a reporter that he has been charged w/the killing of the president. He recovers quickly, but those few seconds where he hears this and reacts, speaks volumes.

Oswald had something to do with the plot, most likely peripherally, but he didn't shoot Kennedy.

[dsa]

42. those finding have been disproven

the committee based its conclusions entirely on an acoustics study of a microphone recording from one of the dallas policeman riding his motorcycle behind kennedy. the researchers said their research was only valid if the motorcycle was located within one area about 5 feet in diameter. the policeman said he was at least a block away from that spot but the researchers said he had to be mistaken. photographic and video evidence has now been found proving that the policeman was right--he was no where near the spot he would have had to be for the acoustic study to be accurate. therefore, the evidence is invalid. even the chairman of that committee has since agreed that its report was flawed and oswald probably did act alone after all.

[rasputin1952]

52. Not necessarily true...No one knows who had the open mike...

They went by what they thought was the best probability, it could have been any of the DPD motorcycle officers in the entourage. When I listened to the tape, it was pretty scratchy and difficult to hear what I was looking for. I had not heard the tape before, so I didn't fall into the "This is where it is trap". I could barely hear the 4th shot, (or it could have been a very quick echo from the 3rd), but it was there.

Everyone involved has "proof", but there is actually very little "proof" that is available to to the pubic. I am willing to bet that when the assassination evidence, papers etc come out in 2013, so much will have been "lost" that little will come of it. There have been "people" in the archives, and wherever "people" show up, things come up missing...x(

[dsa]

55. there was still no microphone in the spot predicted

the researchers did decide it was one officer in particular who had the open microphone, but that officer said he wasn't in that spot at the time of the shooting. he has since been vindicated.

even if the researchers were wrong and the sounds came from a different microphone, nothing else was there at the right time either. the photo and video footage of the area during and immediately after the assassination shows that no police motorcycle or other vehicle that could have recorded the sounds was in the location where it would have had to be for the acoustics data to be valid.

[rasputin1952]

59. I have thought about that, and have wondered if the position

indicated wasn't flawed becaue of poor triangualtion. How could they tell specifically where an officer had to be to transmit? For all I know it might have been the officer that dumped his bike and headed up the Grassy Knoll?

[Old and In the Way]

20. Hard to refute your insightful and persuasive argument.

You physicists sure know your assassination physics.

[H2O Man]

37. Must be those

decades of experience in these type of things. Profile says 20 year old college student, majoring in physics. Possibly minoring in assassination theory?

[dsa]

46. i'm a 20 year old phd candidate

who started college when i was 16. i got my bs at 18 and ms at 19. my area of expertise is the ballistic motion and thermal response of high-speed objects, mainly focused on re-entry characteristics of space capsules. my doctoral research is on methods of improving the survivability of nasa's new orion capsule, but i've also studied more "down to earth" topics like the motion and behavior of bullets impacting different types of materials. i like to think that gives me some credibility on this subject. or at least as much as someone who saw the movie jfk and is convinced it just has to be true. it just HAS TO!

http://www.jfk-online.com/jfk100menu.html

[spoony]

53. Congrats, that's quite a lot to accomplish

at such a young age!

[dsa]

56. thanks

it's nice to be accomplished, but it's also hard making friends when i'm so much younger than my "peers." it was really bad in high school when no one would go out with me. i was either the snobby genius to people my age or the baby girl to my classmates. college has been better but being a young female in field dominated by middle aged men can be very awkward. sometimes i feel like i have to act like a dumb kid to fit in in social situations.

[H2O Man]

60. Gosh.

I got a 93 on my 7th grade social studies mid-term.

It really doesn't make a nit of difference if you are who you say, or if you are Michelle Malkin's granny. More, the problems with the Warren Report are not limited to a movie.

Not only was the "magic bullet" a result of the commission having to incorporate a bullet they had not known about before. They had refused to accept the evidence Tague bullet, until an assistant U.S. attorney sent a letter to Commission general counsel J. Lee Rankin after the Commission had already reached other conclusions about the sequence of shots.

And something that you will not find in either the Warren Commission's report, or the movie "JFK,' is the fact that JFK aides Kenny O'Donnell and Dave Powers -- who were in a limo behind Kennedy -- had told investigators that they knew that shots came from the grassy knoll. But they were pressured into lying to the Commission.

Years later, they told Tip O'Neill about this. And powers told a few others. Kenny and he knew that they were riding into an ambush after the vehicles had made the sharp left turn.

I find Tip's book (Speaker of the House) pretty solid. Others may believe an investigation that was based in part upon witnesses being pressured to lie.

[Richard Steele]

38. Sure it is.

:silly:

[seemslikeadream]

8. Two Men In Dallas

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QyvRfeLDsB4

http://youtube.com/watch?v=UFEx8hjD8kE

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hygDvRpam_w

http://youtube.com/watch?v=R6vXeg50rjs

http://youtube.com/watch?v=COKE8gVTOuU

[Octafish]

19. Wish Wolfie would ask POPPY about these:

In the hour of the death of President John F. Kennedy, ostensible Texas oilman George Herbert Walker Bush named a suspect to the FBI in a "confidential" phone call. He then added he was heading for Dallas. Skeptics need not take my word for it, that's what Poppy told the FBI:



Here's a transcript of the text of what Poppy told the FBI, an hour after President Kennedy was dead:

TO: SAC, HOUSTON DATE: 11-22-63

FROM: SA GRAHAM W. KITCHEL

SUBJECT: UNKNOWN SUBJECT;
ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT
JOHN F. KENNEDY

At 1:45 p.m. Mr. GEORGE H. W. BUSH, President of the Zapata Off-Shore Drilling Company, Houston, Texas, residence 5525 Briar, Houston, telephonically furnished the following information to writer by long distance telephone call from Tyler, Texas.

BUSH stated that he wanted to be kept confidential but wanted to furnish hearsay that he recalled hearing in recent weeks, the day and source unknown. He stated that one JAMES PARROTT has been talking of killing the President when he comes to Houston.

BUSH stated that PARROTT is possibly a student at the University of Houston and is active in political matters in this area. He stated that he felt Mrs. FAWLEY, telephone number SU 2-5239, or ARLINE SMITH, telephone number JA 9-9194 of the Harris County Republican Party Headquarters would be able to furnish additional information regarding the identity of PARROTT.

BUSH stated that he was proceeding to Dallas, Texas, would remain in the Sheraton-Dallas Hotel and return to his residence on 11-23-63. His office telephone number is CA 2-0395.

# # #

Gee. Why was Poppy Bush in Dallas when JFK was assassinated?

Could it be, he was on official business? I suspect he was on Secret Government business. After all, his eldest son bragged during his Texas Air National Guard and Harvard grad school days that his daddy was CIA.

Here's an FBI document from the same week of the assassination in which FBI Director J Edgar Hoover briefed one "Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency." Some strange coincidence there, wot?



Here's a transcript of the above, what J Edgar Hoover told Mr. George Bush of the CIA:

Date: November 29, 1963

To: Director

Bureau of Intelligence and Research

Department of State

From: John Edgar Hoover, Director

Subject: ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY

NOVEMBER 22, 1963

Our Miami, Florida, Office on November 23, 1963, advised that the Office of Coordinator of Cuban Affairs in Miami advised that the Department of State feels some misguided anti-Castro group might capitalize on the present situation and undertake an unauthorized raid against Cuba, believing that the assassination of President John F. Kennedy might herald a change in U. S. policy, which is not true.

Our sources and informants familiar with Cuban matters in the Miami area advise that the general feeling in the anti-Castro Cuban community is one of stunned disbelief and, even among those who did not entirely agree with the President's policy concerning Cuba, the feeling is that the President's death represents a great loss not only to the U. S. but to all of Latin America. These sources know of no plans for unauthorized action against Cuba.

An informant who has furnished reliable information in the past and who is close to a small pro-Castro group in Miami has advised that these individuals are afraid that the assassination of the President may result in strong repressive measures being taken against them and, although pro-Castro in their feelings, regret the assassination.

The substance of the foregoing information was orally furnished to Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency and Captain William Edwards of the Defense Intelligence Agency on November 23, 1963, by Mr. W. T. Forsyth of this Bureau.

# # #

I do remember that GHWB was head of the CIA when the Church Committee was looking into the CIA assassination programs. He made things all friendly-like and turned what had been a serious hunt for truth under previous DCI Colby into another dog-and-pony show that was big on show and light on facts.

Regarding Dallas: Now I don't know if Poppy was a trigger man, was only there to watch what happened or what just happened to be there. I do know Poppy Bush has never explained these memos. He's never even admitted where he was the day JFK was killed.

Seeing how he would go on to become President,
as would his dim son, I believe it's vitally important
that we learn the Truth.



Why? The United States and the world haven't been the same since November 22, 1963.
And not a single major player in the nation's mass media
have stepped up and demanded a real investigation.
So, it's up to us,
We the People.

[Ghost in the Machine]

31. amazing, isn't it? In 7 days he went from

Mr. GEORGE H. W. BUSH, President of the Zapata Off-Shore Drilling Company (11-22-1963)

to

Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency (11-29-1963)

The BFEE tentacles reach far and wide...

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Initech]

13. Go back to bed, America, your government is in control!

Here, watch Dr. Phil and get fat and stupid. Oh and keep eating Taco Bell you fucking morons!

[Maccagirl]

15. When historian/author Dallek said

(paraphrased) "People can't accept that a consequential person like Kennedy was killed by an inconsequential person like Oswald" I want to scream "If Oswald was so inconsequential, why did the State Department pay his way back to the U.S., after a highly-publicized defection at the height of the Cold War?" No one has ever offered an explanation to that question. Of course it's possible to eventually prove that Oswald shot AT Kennedy-but whether he was part of a group can never be discounted no matter how much the truth-seekers are derided and mocked. All I want is the truth-just gimme some truth (jOHN LENNON).

[kskiska]

17. New book by Vincent Bugliosi

VINCENT BUGLIOSI is an American master of common sense, a punishing advocate and a curmudgeonly refreshing voice of reason.

His targets have been the loopy and the deranged, the deceitful and the violent. And so, a career launched with the prosecution of Charles Manson and honed with a book parsing the defense of O.J. Simpson has, with seeming inevitability, come around to 20th century America's great repository of poor reasoning: the assassination of President Kennedy on Nov. 22, 1963.

After reading what may be Bugliosi's crowning work (more than 1,600 pages, not to mention an additional 1,100 pages of notes on an accompanying CD), one thinks: At last, someone has done it, put all the pieces together. "Reclaiming History: The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy" is important not just because it's correct, though it is. It's significant not just because it is comprehensive — surely, no one will deny that. It is essential, first and foremost, because it is conclusive. From this point forward, no reasonable person can argue that Lee Harvey Oswald was innocent; no sane person can take seriously assertions that Kennedy was killed by the CIA, Fidel Castro, the Mob, the Soviets, the Vietnamese, Texas oilmen or his vice president, Lyndon B. Johnson — all of whom exist as suspects in the vacuous world of conspiracy theorists.

Each may be guilty of crimes, but none had anything to do with Kennedy's assassination. "Reclaiming History" may finally move those accusations beyond civilized debate.

(snip)

Bugliosi, whose previous books include "The Betrayal of America: How the Supreme Court Undermined the Constitution and Chose Our President" (2001) and "No Island of Sanity: Paula Jones v. Bill Clinton" (1998), begins by re-creating the events of the assassination, describing the investigations into that terrible day and examining the evidence collected by the various police agencies, the FBI, the commission led by Supreme Court Chief Justice Earl Warren and others. Bugliosi is a keen analyst of that material; his dissection of the medical evidence is particularly telling. He establishes that Oswald fired three shots from the window of the Texas School Book Depository. One missed; one hit Kennedy in the upper back, then passed through his body and pierced then-Texas Gov. John B. Connally; the third struck Kennedy in the back of the head, killing him.

more…
http://www.latimes.com/features/printedition/books/la-bk-newton13may13,1,2529826.story?coll=la-headlines-bookreview

[Mark Twain Girl]

24. "From this point forward, no reasonable person can argue that Lee Harvey Oswald was innocent

no sane person can take seriously assertions that Kennedy was killed by the CIA, Fidel Castro, the Mob, the Soviets, the Vietnamese, Texas oilmen or his vice president, Lyndon B. Johnson — all of whom exist as suspects in the vacuous world of conspiracy theorists."

Whew, that settles that, then.

[ToeBot]

21. So let's open up those Warren Commission records, now. n/t

[Rex]

25. Now now, we can't look at the facts! Much easier making fun of the

people who want to get to the truth! Gotta keep those secrets so we can make fun of the CT crowd. :sarcasm:

[slowry]

27. Anyone who thinks Jfk/mlk/rfk

was a series of fucking random bored lone assassin nutjobs is either motherfucking retarded or self-censoring. Give me a shitfucking break. This isn't no-planer type fuckinshit; this is commonmothershitfuckinsense.

edit: added completely over-the-top and unnecessary cursing

[TnDem]

50. That's exactly what I think.....

Just because our government over-secrets everything down to thread sizes on a bolt in an F-16 fighter, only makes them look suspicious when a "fucking random bored lone assassin nutjob" decides to make a 180 foot shot at a 5 mph target, (which my child could make by the way...I have been to the 6th floor of the School Book Depository...It ain't hard marksmanship).

[Secular Agent Man]

28. Did they ever give Jackie a paraffin test?

Looks like she was trying to escape from the car, but once she saw Zapruder filming, she got back in her seat. Conspiracy theory #6001, copyright S.A.M 2007. :crazy:

I'm with Wolf on this one.

[rasputin1952]

30. Hmmm...Let's see, Jackie was trying to get a piece of JFK's

skull, part of the occipital area I believe, Right portion of occipital bone, blown to the LEFT of the trunk. Now I wonder how that could have happened?

Shot from the rear, blasting the skull apart from occipital to temporal bones, the odds are against the skull fragments going backward from a shot from the rear, especially at the velocity they were moving at. Nope, doesn't seem like it to me.

A shot from the right front, perhaps. After all, it seems to be the logical choice. How about high right front, like from the overpass...that makes more sense than Oswald shooting at a target that is moving away from him. Most snipers would like a clean shot at the target coming toward them. If there is a miss, there is time to realign. A couple of shots did come from the rear, but not the last one.

[kskiska]

33. Jackie had a motive, too.

JFK wouldn't give her enough shopping money, and he was heavily insured. Then there were the other women…

She didn't ordinarily accompany him on these political trips, but she made sure she was seated right next to him in the car that day. Hmmmmm.

[Canuckistanian]

32. Rove did it

Anyone ever check his whereabouts on Nov. 23rd, 1963?

I did.

He was 12 years old at the time. Old enough to lift up a rifle, aim and fire.

BTW, did we know he was born on Christmas Day in 1950?

[yardwork]

45. Some people might say that that suggests he is the anti-Christ

Some people might say that...

[Canuckistanian]

57. Hey, that was me!

Well, whaddaya know. I'm a "some people".

Guess that blows the whole "strawman argument"

[SeattleGirl]

35. This kind of shit pisses me off to no end!!!!!

The single bullet/single shooter theory has NEVER made sense to me (and I was 8 when Kennedy was killed), and it STILL doesn't make sense to me. Fuck you, Wolfie. Fuck you, Discovery Channel and your hand in maintaining the coverup. And fuck everyone who tries to keep the myth going.

No way do I believe that JFK was killed by "The Lone Gunman".

Just fuck you to death!!!!!!! :grr:

(Can you tell that this topic pisses me off more than just a little bit? :hide: )

[PCIntern]

36. I'm with ya.

I was 10 and it sounded like a bunch of contrived lies back then. Even to a 10 year old.

[DemoTex]

39. Reminds me of George Will's response to Don Delillo's "Libra."

George Will was mouth-foaming apoplectic. How dare novelist Don Delillo stray from the fiction outline provided by the Warren Commission?

[Mutineer]

51. I'm not a big believer in becoming obsessed with conspiracy theories

I have no doubt the Warren Commision was wrong but what difference does it make nearly 45 years after the fact? The principals are mostly long since-dead. I'd rather worry about what's going on right here, right now. That I have an outside chance of helping to get righted. So excuse me if I refuse to join the conspiracy theorists on this one. I'd rather spend my time, energy, and passion on other more current-events related endeavors.

[PCIntern]

61. The term "conspiracy theory" does not invalidate said theory,

despite some folks' better efforts.

Noce try however...there's room enough for the rest of us. Do what you want however...last I looked, it was a 'free' country. Although that may be changing fast.