The Great Recession IS NOT Over

[Panaconda]

Making Sense of Poverty Numbers

by Barbara Ehrenreich and Diana Pearce

The Great Recession has hit those on the bottom most heavily, adding six million Americans to the ranks of the officially poor. The number of officially poor is now higher, at nearly 44 million, than at any time in the 51 years of this count. Yet these recent Census numbers hide as much as they reveal.

They don't include the homeless, who number anywhere from half a million to three million. Nor do they count most doubled-up families — experts say they're up by at least 11 percent. And then there's those young adults returning home who at other times would be living independently (the Census estimates 42 percent of them would be poor if still out on their own). Most invisible are those whose incomes are above the poverty line but can't afford the bare necessities, a problem that is most acute in high-cost urban areas.

...

Workers didn't fare so well. More than 3 million Americans were kept out of poverty by unemployment insurance alone, but millions of other workers are struggling to survive job loss without government help and have little prospect of finding a job in the current economy.

The new poverty also highlights the continuing plight of families with children, especially single-parent families where there is rarely a second income to fall back on when one parent loses a job. The most vulnerable families are those headed by single mothers, and among them the hardest hit are those headed by single women of color. Almost two out of five single mothers are poor, and this isn't for lack of trying: Even now, two-thirds are employed. But in addition to the chronic problems of low wages and unstable and episodic employment, many single mothers have seen their work hours cut in the recession.

...

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/09/21/100894_seniors-and-safety-nets-making.html

[leftstreet]

1. K&R

Well worth the read

[maryf]

2. K&R nt

[Starry Messenger]

3. k & r

[ThomCat]

4. A whole lot of people are invisble for a whole lot of reasons.

They don't know how many people are homeless. Do they care that it's a greatly growing number?

They don't know how many adults are living with their parents, or living with their kids because they can't live alone.

They don't know how many families are living in extended networks under one roof.

They don't know people are working at jobs far beneath their skill levels, barely making it, because there are no jobs anymore for them at their skill level or in their field anymore.

They know how wall street is doing, and how investors are doing. They can get minute by minute updates about any aspect of the economy that affects rich people, but not poor people.

[cutlassmama]

5. All good points. Even IF they could figure those numbers out, they

wouldn't want that reported.

[maryf]

7. and when you consider the poverty line

which changed only $25 from 08 to 09 for one person, you wonder how folks make it at 200% of poverty...
many aren't even at the 100% level...how do they do it? (many don't :( ) Here's the 2010, the numbers at the far left represent the number of people per income. Note things like three people are less than double one person. On edit, sorry the chart doesn't line up here, can't get it to. Link helps.

http://liheap.ncat.org/profiles/povertytables/FY2010/popstate.htm


# 100% 110% 125% 150% 175% 185% 200%
1 $10,830 $11,913 $13,538 $16,245 $18,953 $20,036 $21,660
2 $14,570 $16,027 $18,213 $21,855 $25,498 $26,955 $29,140
3 $18,310 $20,141 $22,888 $27,465 $32,043 $33,874 $36,620
4 $22,050 $24,255 $27,563 $33,075 $38,588 $40,793 $44,100
5 $25,790 $28,369 $32,238 $38,685 $45,133 $47,712 $51,580
6 $29,530 $32,483 $36,913 $44,295 $51,678 $54,631 $59,060
7 $33,270 $36,597 $41,588 $49,905 $58,223 $61,550 $66,540
8 $37,010 $40,711 $46,263 $55,515 $64,768 $68,469 $74,020

[bobbolink]

30. Excellently said! NONE of those counts are accurate, but the issue is....

there are a hell of a lot of very poor people, and all "progressives" want to do is argue about "jobs".

Nevermind that they are hungry NOW and need expanded, not cut off, food stamps.

Nevermind that the need for low-income housing is a horrible crisis, and building housing would put a lot of people to work.... it isn't sexy.

Nevermind that a lot, probably MOST of those people don't have healthcare.

Nevermind that many of those children don't have a way to get to school, or even anywhere safe to be if their single mother is at work.

ALL of those things are immediates crises, and none of that matters because all we can talk about is JOBS.

:nuke:

[TexasObserver]

6. Yes, it is. Denial doesn't change that.

The recovery has been under way for over a year. It's called a "recovery" because that's what it is. Recovery is a long process, not a quickly occurring event. Everyone acknowledges it was the worst recession since the depression. Why people think it should turn around in under two years is a mystery. Probably ignorance.

To say that the recession is over and the recovery is under way is not to say the economic woes are concluded. Of course they aren't. It may be two more years before we see unemployment at a level that is reasonable.

[maryf]

8. and homelessness??

and people who can't work?? Recovery for Wall St. is not recovery for the people, and who matters?

[TexasObserver]

9. You can want the word to mean what you think it should, but it doesn't.

When you are in recovery from surgery, it means you are not well yet. It means action has been taken to help you get well, but you are not recovered.

Do you see the difference between "being in recovery" and "being recovered"?

If someone has broken bones all over their body and they're put into a body cast, they have to get better incrementally for a long, long time. A year after their surgery, when they're trying to learn to walk again, we'd say "they're in recovery." We would not say "they're fully recovered."

As the economy improves, so will many social problems caused by the lack of sufficient revenues circulating in the economy. More jobs means more people with revenues, which means more tax revenues to states, counties, cities, and the federal government, which means more money for programs.

[Panaconda]

12. The old "trickle down"

myth is what you're parroting. When you say "economy" I suspect you are saying Wall St. and big business.

US Poverty Data Tells Only Half the Story...

by Ananya Mukherjee-Reed

In April this year, Fortune magazine published an insightful analytical piece Fortune 500: Profits bounce back. Two days ago as I went back to the Fortune website to read the piece again, I found something very interesting: sitting right next to it was the story Poverty in the US Spikes. I took a screen-shot right away. The picture is worth much more than a mere thousand words: I think its worth 391 billion dollars (2009 the Fortune 500 earnings) or the 14.9 million Americans without jobs. You choose.



Some excerpts from Profits Bounce Back:

Amazingly, as consumers struggle, U.S. corporations are staging a nearly unprecedented comeback that's largely escaping notice. The gargantuan, dispiriting job cuts that seem to dominate the news have also been the spur for an epic resurgence in profits. For 2009, the Fortune 500 lifted earnings 335%, to $391 billion, a $301 billion jump that's the second largest in the list's 56-year history, approaching the increase in the robust recovery of 2003.

The crucial reductions came in the item accounting for two-thirds of their costs: labor. In 2009, the Fortune 500 shed 821,000 jobs, the biggest loss in its history -- almost 3.2% of its payroll. ... ... The result was a wondrous surge in productivity, defined as the hours needed to make a bicycle, a PC, or a ton of insulation (emphasis mine)

...

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/09/23-4

[TexasObserver]

13. Nonsense. Our side says there is a recovery. The GOP says there isn't.

We're Democrats at DU. We want to see Democrats win this election cycle. Part of our election effort is to show that the economy is in recovery, and that's good. It's not as good as being recovered, but it's better than the mess Bush and the GOP handed us 20 months ago.

Why don't you address the mess that the GOP made and the mess they'll make again if they're put in charge of either house of congress?

[Panaconda]

14. Nice deflection

Part of your effort seems to be to obscure the reality. People are suffering and it's getting worse not better. If you try to paint this lump of coal and call it a diamond you are practicing the art of deception.

It's systemic, hope you get past your cheerleading and take a deeper look at that reality.

"It's better than atrocious" is not much of a political platform.

[TexasObserver]

16. I see you can't bring yourself to criticize Bush and the GOP.

[Panaconda]

17. Oh that's too easy

Bush is a war criminal. Should be locked up for life. The GOP is just a protection outfit for big business, think of it like the mafia.

There ya' happy?

Now let's see if you can take a step back and understand that it's systemic. That would require questioning long held myths. Best wishes on that.

[TexasObserver]

20. Do you agree that the GOP is busy claiming there's no recovery?

Do you agree that their saying so is part of their election 2010 strategy?

[Panaconda]

21. I don't listen

to GOP talking points. My view is based firmly in the real world, based on factual analysis rather than any political talking points.

The reality is that on the ground conditions are getting worse everywhere you look, but you will only see it if you are actually looking.

Ignoring this reality and allowing it to be manipulated, or perpetuating the manipulation, for political gain is deeply cynical. I see that happening all over the place.

[treestar]

57. You're saying the same thing the GOP is

And there is a recovery. Things are getting better.

[bobbolink]

34. You have an interesting choice of avatar..... LBJ was a war monger, but he DID not only care about

poverty, which you can't seem to bring yourself around to, but he TOOK ACTION on poverty, to the point of strong-arming those who tried to hold him back.

I suggest you meditate on your avatar.

[TexasObserver]

44. Unlike your avatar, mine changes all the time. LBJ did care about poverty.

Your comments about him are ridiculous.

I suggest you study history and stop making absurd claims against one of the best presidents we have had.

I've changed my avatar to make it appropriate for this discussion.

[bobbolink]

54. Does Obama know you are this hateful to voters, all in his name?

You are one of those who come here just to bite people. I guess Obama would be proud, eh?

[Lost4words]

25. rubbish

[inna]

75. incredibly lame series of posts on your part here.

surprisingly so; usually you don't come across in such an unflattering light. :shrug:

[bobbolink]

33. Thank you for stating the obvious.... I am really glad that you get it, because

I can't stomach reading the heartless drivel from those who just don't give a damn.

Thank you! :yourock:

[lunatica]

23. How do you rationalize 2% getting richer beyond their wildest dreams

while the poorer get poorer because of that very wealth. There's a breaking point of no return. The rich will just isolate themselves more, and make sure their chosen politicians do their bidding. The country's leadership will be from among their ranks because they'll decide who the leadership is. The rich will not lift the poor out of poverty because that demands they distribute their wealth more evenly.

Look at any third world country. Better still, try living in one to see how entrenched the haves are and how impossible it is to lift the poor. At some point it will be too late for meaningful recovery. The jobs which will be obtainable will be low paying service jobs at poverty levels.

[flyarm]

70. and please do not forget..many of the 2% got bailouts of our tax dollars or their corporations did

and many of their bonus's came out of out tax dollars in the form of bailouts!

While the poor or low income and hurting middle class just got the Tax Bill! and the middle finger!

[bobbolink]

32. Oh, I see the "difference" all right, ..... that there is NO difference between

"compassionate conservative" and "compassionate liberal".

[TexasObserver]

45. Please take a course in economics.

Find out what the terms "recovery" and "recession" mean, and then we won't have to have these discussions.

[bobbolink]

52. Snarkiness sure does become you. Is this how you GOTV????

[flyarm]

71. please correct that to NEO-LIBERAL the equivalent to Neo-con.

thanks

[Freddie Stubbs]

26. A recession is two consequent quarters of decreasing GDP

[maryf]

66. "This definition is unpopular with most economists"

http://economics.about.com/cs/businesscycles/a/depressions.htm

"Recession: The Newspaper Definition
The standard newspaper definition of a recession is a decline in the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) for two or more consecutive quarters.

This definition is unpopular with most economists for two main reasons. First, this definition does not take into consideration changes in other variables. For example this definition ignores any changes in the unemployment rate or consumer confidence. Second, by using quarterly data this definition makes it difficult to pinpoint when a recession begins or ends. This means that a recession that lasts ten months or less may go undetected."

[MajorChode]

69. The BCDC says the recession ended in June 2009

From your link:

Recession: The BCDC Definition
The Business Cycle Dating Committee at the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) provides a better way to find out if there is a recession is taking place. This committee determines the amount of business activity in the economy by looking at things like employment, industrial production, real income and wholesale-retail sales. They define a recession as the time when business activity has reached its peak and starts to fall until the time when business activity bottoms out. When the business activity starts to rise again it is called an expansionary period. By this definition, the average recession lasts about a year.

From the BCDC:

CAMBRIDGE September 20, 2010 - The Business Cycle Dating Committee of the National Bureau of Economic Research met yesterday by conference call. At its meeting, the committee determined that a trough in business activity occurred in the U.S. economy in June 2009. The trough marks the end of the recession that began in December 2007 and the beginning of an expansion. The recession lasted 18 months, which makes it the longest of any recession since World War II. Previously the longest postwar recessions were those of 1973-75 and 1981-82, both of which lasted 16 months.

http://www.nber.org/cycles/sept2010.html

[rampart]

10. it is the worst depression since the depression

and the "recovery" in high end bonuses is not stopping many forclosures or layoffs.

[TexasObserver]

11. Please learn what "recovery" means when referring to the economy.

It means we're not in recession. It means things are better than they were during the recession, but it doesn't mean the economy is well.

If you want to talk about bonuses, or foreclosures, or layoffs, those are all good topics, but they don't negate the fact that we are in a recovery.

When one makes such arguments, they give support to the notion that some progressive are painfully ignorant about economics.

[blindpig]

35. So, in other words...

the term 'recovery' is meaningless to the average person who is sucking wind. "Recovery' means "wait to be trickled on".

[TexasObserver]

49. The term "recovery" means "recovery."

It means the same thing to everyone, but some don't want to accept its meaning, so they strain to create the one they want, as you seem to do.

Instead of trying to make the word "recovery" mean "full employment," why don't you accept that it doesn't mean that? If you want to say "it's not much of a recovery to the unemployed," that's a perfectly legitimate statement. But saying "it's not a recovery because I don't want recovery to mean anything but full employment" is inventing your own language. You might as well call a car a "choo choo train" because that's what you wish it was.

[blindpig]

51. Thank you, Mr Dictionary.

I guess I don't speak the language of capitalists. That language makes no account of the suffering of workers yet tries to make 'recovery' sound as though it has some significance to them.

Enjoy your recovery.

[bobbolink]

53. !!

:applause:

Shhhh, he/she is bizzzzy making Obama proud. :eyes:

[sendero]

15. More technical economics crap..

... that contributed greatly to this mess.

It is NOT a recovery. The numbers that make up the GDP have no meaning in real economics terms for real people. Just like the stock market no longer has ANY CONNECTION WHATSOEVER to the real economy.

A "recovery" that would take 20 years to "recover" at its current pace is not a recovery in any real sense of the word or comparable to ANY "recovery" from past recessions.

[TexasObserver]

18. Yours is an argument not made by the informed.

Yes, it is a recovery. That fact that you don't understand that doesn't change it.

The recovery from the 1987 collapse was five years. The collapse of 2008 was worse than 1987's.

Your expectation that "recovery" means "well now" is the problem.

[TBF]

19. It is only a recovery for the very wealthy -

corporate profits are up while poverty spikes.

[sendero]

22. No...

... my expectation that "recovery" means the same thing it has always meant is your problem.

It doesn't, there isn't, and no amount of bullshit tea-leave reading of nonsense numbers like GDP will turn this stagnant economy into a "recovery" or make the bleating masses of idiotic technical "economists" that NEVER EVEN SAW THIS COMING suddenly have the sense god gave a billy goat.

Jobs are not improving. Until they do, there is no recovery no matter what the other numbers say. Period, end of story and regardless of what minutae define the term "recovery" to the bleating masses of moron economists.

[blindpig]

24. A recovery for the rich.

The only thing that has recovered is Wall St, maybe. To cheer this while the vast majority are still sucking wind and looking over there shoulders is more a declaration of class loyalty than anything else. Why should the working class struggle while the rich fart through silk?

[bobbolink]

31. Thank you for your overwhelming compassion.

[TexasObserver]

47. Thank you for confusing "recovery" with "booming."

Please read a book with some information about modern economics.

I'm talking about the state of the economy. I'm not applauding poverty. I'm not applauding robber barons or Wall Street.

Your inability to discuss this topic rationally means there is really no point in my discussing it with you further. Take your LBJ hate somewhere it is welcome.

[bobbolink]

55. You are great with giving out useless advice. Poor folk KNOW when things are getting worse. We

also know when people don't give a shit.

Thank you for clearly announcing yourself as one of the latter.

[TonyMontana]

43. +1 for TRUTH. The recession was over last year

Jobs are being created every month as opposed to being lost. It's not enough, but that's why it's called a RECOVERY.

Recovery does not equal "boom" or "good times". It also does not equal "recession".

[TexasObserver]

48. True, but explaining that is a never-ending job.

These discussions always come down to a person wanting the word "recovery" to mean "fully recovered," and it doesn't. In their minds, if the economy isn't well, it isn't in recovery, which, of course, is completely untrue and irrational.

We're in recovery until the economy is good again. Some refuse to accept that "recession" and "booming" are simply two ends of a continuum, and in between them lies "recovery."

[JuniperLea]

59. You make good points all through this thread...

And the arguments against your good points show what I've been saying all along... the general population is very, very selfish, and it fuels the anger which leads the angry to grasp at misinformation, because it makes them feel better to be a victim.

Sad... very, very sad.

The downward spiral has stopped; we're heading in the right direction; there has been job growth; economic indicators are pointing in the right direction... but I'm going to stand next to this goddamn microwave and tap my foot impatiently because my Malto Meal isn't hot yet, goddammit!

Edited to say... in my immediate family there have been three jobs lost and two homes foreclosed, and others that are a paycheck away from being homeless... I can't help but say fuck you to the whiners. I'm sorry if that offends some here... but I'll not apologize for speaking the truth.

[inna]

76. "I can't help but say fuck you to the whiners."

"the general population is very, very selfish"



fucking sickening.

:puke:

[Techn0Girl]

77. In Real Life The latest BLS Stats (9-21) show that jobs were LOST From July to August

Stop listening to the propaganda.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/laus.nr0.htm


Job were LOST between last July and last August


Table C. States with statistically significant employment changes from
July 2010 to August 2010, seasonally adjusted

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| July | August | Over-the-month
State | 2010 | 2010(p) | change(p)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alaska........................| 326,700 | 318,300 | -8,400
Arkansas......................| 1,171,500 | 1,160,600 | -10,900
California....................| 13,861,500 | 13,827,900 | -33,600
Colorado......................| 2,203,000 | 2,194,400 | -8,600
District of Columbia..........| 724,800 | 705,000 | -19,800
Hawaii........................| 592,800 | 586,500 | -6,300
Idaho.........................| 608,300 | 603,000 | -5,300
Maine.........................| 593,800 | 589,400 | -4,400
Michigan......................| 3,881,300 | 3,831,000 | -50,300
New Mexico....................| 802,600 | 798,200 | -4,400
| | |
North Carolina................| 3,893,900 | 3,912,500 | 18,600
Pennsylvania..................| 5,609,300 | 5,592,400 | -16,900
Texas.........................| 10,390,400 | 10,356,200 | -34,200
Washington....................| 2,806,900 | 2,797,600 | -9,300
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
p = preliminary.

[Dr.Phool]

27. It's a crumbling empire.

This is cross-posted from DemReadingDU in this morning's SMW thread.



9/23/10 Graham Summers - Forget a Recession, The Empire is Crumbling

Let’s be honest. Forget recessions, forget even Depressions, the US is an empire in decline.

You can literally see it crumbling right in front of you. Just start looking at how people live, eat, and act on a day to day basis. Look at how our Government runs itself, how it manages our affairs, how it spends our tax Dollars. Look at how our justice system works, who it protects and who it punishes.

It’s all out there, right in the open for you to see. You don’t need an expert degree or some kind of advanced education. It’s OBVIOUS to anyone who bothers looking around.

The fact we don’t admit it doesn’t mean it’s not true.

According to David Rosenberg of Gluskin Sheff:

Wages & salaries are still down 3.7% from the prior peak;
Corporate profits are still down 20% from the peak;
Real GDP is still down 1.3% from the peak;
Industrial production is still down 7.2% from the peak;
Employment is still down 5.5% from the peak;
Retail sales are still down 4.5% from the peak;
Manufacturing orders are still down 22.1% from the peak;
Manufacturing shipments are still down 12.5% from the peak;
Exports are still down 9.2% from the peak;
Housing starts are still down 63.5% from the peak;
New home sales are still down 68.9% from the peak;
Existing home sales are still down 41.2% from the peak;
Non-residential construction is still down 35.7% from the peak.

The American Psychological Association reports that 73% of Americans cite money as a source of significant stress. Personal bankruptcies have fallen 8% month over month from July to August. However, August 2010 bankruptcies are up 6% from August 2009… so much for the recovery.

And yet, despite all of this, assumedly intelligent people write op-ed articles and appear on TV claiming that things are swell in the US, that we’re actually OK and that the recession is over. Some of these people even have advanced degrees or have won international prizes for economics.

more...
http://economicedge.blogspot.com/2010/09/graham-summers...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Call it whatever you want. I call it fucked up beyond all recognition (FUBAR).

I've worked through, and been laid off through every recession since 1971. This is the worst recession than I have ever seen. And I've been through some bad ones. And this is like no "recovery" I've ever seen. A "jobless recovery", like we've been through since 2001 is not a recovery. It's propaganda.

We're beyond recession. We're on the edge of depression.

[DemReadingDU]

28. Yes, It’s OBVIOUS to anyone who bothers looking around.

There are still many people in denial.

[DCBob]

29. Technically its over, but practically it isnt...

Unless they change the definition of a recession its over since we've had a number of consecutive quarters of GDP growth. However, some serious negative remnants remain.. the biggest of which is unemployment. I think we are in a serious economic "stagnation" period.. my term for what this situation is called since its not a recession or a depression.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

37. You Nailed It.

I'm not drunk any more, but I've still got this damned hangover.

[DCBob]

46. Ha! That's even better!

:thumbsup:

[mkultra]

36. uh...no. Its over.

read a book.

[blindpig]

42. Um, right.

That's why so many Americans are forced to shop at 'dollar stores' for their groceries.

http://moneycentral.msn.com/detail/stock_quote?Symbol=fdo

I find myself shopping at them more often, too.

[mkultra]

79. lol, i hadnt heard of the emperical dollar store shopping index

Must be a very reliable measure. I shopped at dollar stores during the boom. I guess that was a recession too.

[Honeycombe8]

38. The Republicans agree with those authors. nt

[Dr.Phool]

39. *

Who cares what republicans agree with? Facts are facts.

Believing your own bullshit can be dangerous.

[Marr]

40. No one is suffering economically in the US.

Well, no one worth mentioning anyway.

That's the position of our political establishment and the moneyed interests that own it.

[bobbolink]

56. Its also the position of many posters at DU.

Then comes election time, and they expect those they ignored and blasted to run right out and vote.

:crazy:

[Marr]

64. Yep. I think what it boils down to is

a lot of people are more into the party than the policy.

[bobbolink]

65. That, and the fact that we poor people just don't count.

Until they want our votes, that is.

HAH!

[avaistheone1]

67. At that point in time there is room in the "Big Tent"

[bobbolink]

74. Even then, the room is only one way.... they STILL don't even give an empty promise of fighting for

us.

Just demanding the votes, then the Big Adios.

:nuke:

[treestar]

58. Just not true and no one claimed that

[Marr]

63. Ha! Yes, they did-- with their actions.

Words from politicians don't mean a fucking thing.

[txaslftist]

41. It's not even close to over...

We have a few decades of this to deal with, IMO. We can't fix it until we get over the delusion that we can afford to police the world through debt, imprison more people than any other nation in the world, and grow wealthy in a nation that doesn't produce its own goods.

Oh wait. The official line is that we are in a recovery.

Nevermind what I just said. All is rosy.

[JCMach1]

50. Let's put blame where it belongs, capitalism... as soon as the worst of it is over

and the middle-class starts profiting again, they will soon forget the millions living below the poverty.

Same as it ever was...

[TBF]

62. That is what comes down -

not much you can do with a system that is so inherently unequal.

[craigmatic]

60. The recession is over but the recovery hasn't taken hold yet. It takes years for things to

get better sometimes. The recession in the early 90's comes to mind. It was over before Clinton took office but nobody believed old man bush when he said it.

[stevenleser]

61. "Recession" has a very specific definition as does recovery. If you want to complain about something

else, you cannot call it "Recession".

[maryf]

68. please see reply #66 nt.

[USArmyParatrooper]

72. By DEFINITION - the Recession IS over, we are RECOVERING, we're not fully recovered.

These are facts that cannot be refuted.

In other news..

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Business-spending-on-capital-apf-3305894640.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=8&asset=&ccode=

Business spending on capital goods rises in August

WASHINGTON (AP) -- U.S. companies invested last month in computers, communications equipment and machinery, boosting capital goods orders for the third time in four months.

The 4.1 percent increase to capital goods in August signaled a rebound in business spending after orders fell 5.3 percent in July. It also suggests manufacturing, which has helped drive economic growth since the recession ended in June 2009, is still a bright spot in a weak recovery.

[TexasObserver]

73. Those are the simple facts.

But it's impossible to get that across to those who want "recession" and "recovery" to mean something other than they mean.

If someone wants to talk about how jobs should have been the focus, not health care, not banking, I will agree with them. But that doesn't change the facts of recession and recovery.


Our president inherited the worst economy in over 70 years and the fact that it has recovered as much as it has is the best thing he has going for Democrats right now. Why any Democrat would insist on pissing on that is very strange. That's the GOP's argument. They count on it. They count on the ignorant buying that the recession is still ongoing. They count on the ignorant not understanding that recovery is a long, long process. They count on people who think Democrats should have turned around 8 years of insanity and decline with 20 months of a more sane approach.

[MajorChode]

80. It's just history repeating itself

When the economy is down the public always blames the party in power. Most are too ignorant to understand that the forces which caused the recession didn't happen overnight and that digging ourself out of the hole always takes longer than falling in. The reality is that Republicans caused this recession with their fucked up deregulation and counterproductive tax policies and they have sandbagged the recovery every step of the way. Now the misinformed and ignorant public wants to blame the Democrats for the mess we are in and the pace at which the recovery is happening.

[TexasObserver]

82. That's it, exactly.

The GOP created this mess. They've done everything possible to keep Democrats from repairing the damage, knowing that many Americans aren't intelligent enough or informed enough to understand these two things. The GOP knows if it can use obstruction to slow down the repair efforts, they will benefit politically for the very reason you state: the public holds responsible the party in power. That is why I wanted the president starting his administration by hammering through his agenda the first 100 days, with all the arm twisting required.

It certainly doesn't help that many on our side don't know enough economics to run a lemonade stand, either. It is impossible to discuss the topic rationally with people who knee jerk about all things business.

[Kat45]

78. The Census did attempt to count the homeless, though it may be impossible to do

They chose one day when Census workers went out overnight to places where the homeless were known to congregate, to sleep, etc. The next day workers went out to food pantries and such; yes, they knew the people there were not all homeless, but some likely were. I'm sure it was impossible to find and count all the homeless but at least they made an attempt. They didn't ignore their existence, like many do. (I was working as a Census worker then, and although I did not do an overnight shift, I did know people who did.)

[Big Bill Jefferson]

81. US jobless claims, housing data show no recovery for workers

US jobless claims, housing data show no recovery for workers
By Tom Eley
25 September 2010

Data from the jobs and housing sectors released this week indicate that, far from “recovery,” the US remains mired in a social crisis with no end in sight.
Weekly first-time jobless benefits claims rose for the week ending September 18 by 12,000 to 465,000, according to the US Department of Labor. The claims total for the previous week was also revised upward by 3,000 to 453,000. The more accurate four-week moving average remained virtually unchanged at 463,250 workers.

Most economists believe that first-time benefit claims must fall well below 400,000 to indicate that the economy is adding significant numbers of jobs. Instead, the four-week moving average has not fallen below 450,000 since March.

These figures can only mean that the official unemployment rate of near 10 percent is unlikely to be seriously reduced, if at all, in the coming months. A broader measure of unemployment, the so-called “U-6” rate, is near 17 percent, or one in six US workers.

...

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/sep2010/econ-s25.shtml