Nurse fired for comment to cop during traffic stop

[cowcommander]

When Colorado Springs policeman Duaine Peters stopped and ticketed cardiac nurse Miriam Leverington for speeding, she let him know she wasn't happy.

"I hope you are not ever my patient," Leverington said.

The statement cost Leverington her job because the officer contacted her bosses at Memorial Health System and told them she had threatened him during a traffic stop.

After she was fired, Leverington sued the city of Colorado Springs, which runs Memorial hospital, and Peters, claiming they violated her right to free speech.

Today, a three-judge panel on the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver will hear arguments in her case.

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_16119829#ixzz10Ah9FTcy

This is bullshit! How can that even be a legit reason to get fired?!

[Dawson Leery]

1. But coppers can do no wrong.

:puke:

[HardWorkingDem]

11. Why can't people here stay on the message...

instead of diluting the OP to make a point...

[KansasVoter]

69. I think it was not diluting it at all

[HardWorkingDem]

96. Ad hominem argument....

People here too often deflect a topic or point of view by the standard ad hominem tactic.

[Ignis]

99. Sorry to butt in, but where's the ad hominem?

:shrug:

[HardWorkingDem]

107. The nurse acted like a jerk, so people here...

are tossing in the character of cops to deflect or excuse her her behavior.

[Ignis]

116. Ah. I think you're slightly misapplying that fallacy here.

But I get your point in context. Thanks for the explanation. :hi:

[HuckleB]

2. Hmm. I guess it's not ok to be upset in public.

:wtf: :crazy: :argh: :banghead: :hide: :yoiks:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. Seems to me that she could have spoken her anger some other way...

That was not a smart thing to say. She must have spoken without thinking.

:shrug:

[Ozymanithrax]

4. I think it was more the way she said it.

I mean, just what did she mean when she said, "I hope you are not ever my patient." The nurse didn't tell the Policamn he was out of line. What the nuse said was stupid, wrong, and a threat.

[w4rma]

5. Prove the statement was a threat. Because that statement is ambiguous.

Also, it's pretty obvious that the cop is a total jerk since he went after her job for that. Perhaps the cop should be fired for giving a bad name to the police department? In fact, it might be a good idea if more cops were fired for abusing their power so that they can act like jerks.

[Suich]

6. Thank you!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[GodlessBiker]

7. What was her point in saying it? That she wouldn't fluff his pillow?

Or was it her intent to relay the message to him that if he were her patient, the traffic stop would impact the quality of care she gave him as a nurse?

And, yes, the cop was a jerk.

[Name removed]

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[Lyric]

72. It was ambiguous because she COULD have meant

that he should consider how important her job is to her patients, and that pulling her over could be dangerous for them because she needs to be there FAST, when called.

Different wording would have been better, of course. Something like, "I sincerely hope that you are never in a position where your desperately need your cardiac nurse, but she's late because she's being held up by some cop with a ticket quota to meet."

[laughingliberal]

80. I was stopped once trying to get to a hospice patient who was in an escalating pain crisis.

I was called on a day off as all the nurses had been there trying to get it under control and failing. I was the reigning pain management expert at the agency. I lived 40 miles away.

I explained the situation to the officer who stopped me and he said (derisively), "Heh, heh, pain's not an emergency." I replied I would remember that if he were ever under my care. I'm assuming he would have wanted me to take my time if it were him just as he felt my patient could just wait.

[uppityperson]

79. "saying she didn't want to have anything to do with him again. "

"Leverington told Peters she wasn't threatening him, just saying she didn't want to have anything to do with him again."

[Aristus]

113. Nurses do a lot more than simply "fluff pillows", and like medical providers,

(doctors, physician assistants, and nurse practitioners) nurses, too, have a code of ethics which they must follow. Essentially it boils down to "treat the patient in front of you. Without prejudice or judgement."

She was basically saying that her professional code of ethics wasn't worth the cost of a speeding ticket. That makes her a bad nurse. That makes her eligible for firing.

Cops can be jerks, no doubt about it. But don't smart off to cops, all right? Is that too hard? Every time a cop stops a car, he or she is aware that the person behind the wheel might have a gun, and might try to get the drop on them, and blast away. Even the bravest cop is going to be a little on-edge during a traffic stop.

The nurse was saying that she reserves the right to pick and choose who her patients are. Maybe she shouldn't be a nurse. Maybe getting fired is her wake-up call to do something else...

[eilen]

154. She was not at work.

She is human. Sometimes people get ticked off and say stupid things. Maybe you would like to be fired for saying something stupid about your clientele when you are not at work.

[Ozymanithrax]

9. An ambiguous threat is still a threat.

I've had friends in cardiac wards. I know nurses that have worked in one in San Diego. When you are there, you need to trust the staff. That kind of ambiguous statement breaks every sense of trust between a patient and a nurse. You don't want to wonder if the nurse or the doctor is nursing some grudge when your life depends on their professionalism.

If I heard a nurse make such a statement I would take it to the hospital and complain.

And in this case, I saw nothing that indicated the cop abused his authority in giving the woman a ticket. So is there something that says the cop was being a jerk and deserved to be threatened ambiguously for doing his job?

[FarPoint]

49. He was in a power trip; arrogance rules this officer.

He never felt thrteatened at all....He is weak, and a threat in himself.

[Ozymanithrax]

82. Wow, you know all that about this guy from what?

Nothing in the story indicates that.
He gave her a ticket.
She made a "ambiguous threat" that both showed her utter lack of professionalism and called into question the safety of the ward she worked in.

But you attribute all kinds of negative qualities to this officer because he belongs to a group. There is a word for that.

[HardWorkingDem]

10. So let's see here....

a person is doing their job, comes across a person like this and then is blamed for reacting toward the person's bad behavior?


Sheesh...good ole DU cop haters at work again...

[fascisthunter]

109. yeah.. DUers are just cop haters

that talking point is stupid and old.

[HardWorkingDem]

159. Look at it this way...but I doubt you will...

More of this goes on here than people want to admit, but it is especially noticeable when a person is actually interested in particular topics like this.

And sorry, it's not a "stupid" or old "talking point"...

Now what gets old is that so many people here claim to be the enlightened and more intelligent and more humane....right.

[seabeyond]

114. hey, i get accused of being a cop hater. you might have been one of them. and LOOKIE

i am the one calling out the nurse. isnt that just amazing. you deciding who the cophaters are and are not. all black and white, nice and tidy.

doesnt work that way.

[HardWorkingDem]

12. About as ambiguous as a brick to the head....

wow...

[jobycom]

16. You'd think it was real ambiguous if the cop made it to you.

"I hope you're never in the back of my squad car."

You'd be screaming "threat!!" so loud we wouldn't need DU to hear you.

[TheMadMonk]

28. "I hope you are never..." is an expression of dislike.

"You'd better hope you're never..." is a threat.

Do you see the difference?

And in the context of a nurse making the second threat, I'd be far more fearfull of 3 am enemas than a dose of "K" in the canula.

Nurses don't generally specialise in killing or breaking their patients. They just have the power to make your life very unpleasant when you make theirs difficult.

[blueamy66]

33. Yep, the cop abused his power.

Stop the insanity, please.

[Tunkamerica]

19. I hope you are never my dry cleaner.

I hope you are never my client. I hope you are never my daughter's boyfriend. I hope you are never president of the PTA.

Are those threats?

[msanthrope]

65. 1) No. 2)Yes. 3) Yes. 4) Maybe

Let me tell you why...

Threats are dependent on the position of power the person making them occupies relative to the person getting one....

1) Your prospective dry cleaner is no threat to you.

2) Your lawyer's bad will (assuming lawyer/client?) could be deadly.

3) Parent/adult to minor child/young adult--can be threatening.

4) I read this as a wish to not have this person in power---not a threat, unless you doing something active and wrong to prevent it.

In this case, you have a nurse/patient relationship--I would take it as a threat.

[Tunkamerica]

103. That's just your read on it. Without hearing it being said the tone

is what makes all of those threats/non-threats. I can imagine any of these being threats but the words by themselves do not make a threat.

[eilen]

155. I can't believe this is DU

Fer godsakes people-- Nurses are regular normal people, not nuns. They didn't take a vow. They work damn hard, all hours and days and get little time off. They are constantly having to do the work of 2-3 other professionals with no quarter taking care of sick and often demanding patients who seem to think nurse also means waitress, stewardess, miracle maker and concierge. She cannot even tell you if your doctor is incompetent. Every now and then their last nerve is worked. It happens. She didn't say this on the radio or in town square, in her workplace- but in a private conversation in which she was not the person in power. If it was such a threat, why didn't he just arrest for threatening a police officer? Because his chief would kick his ass.

She's a real menace, oh boy, no speeding citations in over 20 years. Saves lives everyday. Now the pain med will end up really late that her team has to work without her. One does not pick up an experienced cardiac nurse from the street. The hospital over-reacted as hospitals always do.--overkill. Too bad she isn't union.

I just love all these "perfect nurses"-- eating their young as usual.

[seabeyond]

156. sheis not indicative of the whole professin, nor a representitive of whole profession

we at least recognize this is not the norm.

i am sorry that you dont understand how hearing a nurse say that how big a deal it is for people. how nervous it would make any of us put in that position. why are you not even tryong to understand how a person would feel hearing that.

one person in your profession behaved unprofessionally.

it would be better if he had arrest her for this? really? then EVERYONE would be on his ass, and no one would be talking about the nurse. he did the appropriate thing. it was her bosses that chose to fire her

you dont know her. you dont know if she has a history.

how far has it gotten in the courts/ i am not remembering since i read it so long ago. it isnt only the cops, her bosses, people on this thread that find it uncomfortable a nurse saying this, but the courts too.

[eilen]

164. I guess it could have been worse/better

She could have said "I can't wait until you are one of my patients. I'll be just as professional"

depending on how you take it.

[seabeyond]

165. eilen, the woman did wrong. nt

[Tunkamerica]

160. I'm wondering why you responded to my post with this...

from what i can tell we agree.

[eilen]

162. I was commiserating. Not arguing :-) nt

[FarPoint]

37. I do not sense she was actually threatening the armed Officer.

The Officer took the event way too far outside the box. For someone to be reported then fired over words expressed during a moment of stress is just cowardly. I am sure that this cardiac nurse has saved hundreds of lives....more than the ignorant Officer has ever thought of saving.

[seabeyond]

46. ah, he didnt fire her. he complained. yet he is too far outside the box. she? just stressed

the victim. poor her. though she had no business making a comment like that and it was totally unprofessional.

in medical care, one is at their most vulnerable. he is in her hands. for her to threaten poor care in that condition is beyond the pale, on her part.

she isnt a victim. she is responsible for her words.

[fascisthunter]

108. yeah... her tone almost gave him a heart attack

poor poor cop

[treestar]

128. How could it be a serious threat? Odds are he'll never be her

patient.

[eilen]

133. From the article

"The traffic stop occurred Dec. 17, 2008, on Interstate 25. Peters issued Leverington a ticket for going 14 mph over the speed limit. It was her first ticket in 20 years.
Leverington claims that, during the stop, Peters was rude and that his attitude prompted her comment.
Peters then told her he was going to call her supervisor to report the threat. Leverington told Peters she wasn't threatening him, just saying she didn't want to have anything to do with him again."


She explained her statement to the officer. What an asshole to still call the hospital reporting her on it, particularly since she was not functioning in her capacity as a nurse and was not at work.

[seabeyond]

142. well, i am sorry you miss the HUGE trust issue patients give to medical care

when we are under, incapable, vulnerable, but i really dont care if she were to continue with an explanation. if a person said that to me, i wouldnt trust them. not in the state we are in as a patient. it wa a stupid stupid thing to say.

[HardWorkingDem]

8. Let's play a little flip flop here and see how this would fly...

Imagine if the cop had said, "and I hope some day I come across your teenage daughter with a broke down car in a bad part of town."

[jobycom]

15. But dude, cops, you know?

Fuckin' cops! Right? What's wrong with you???/

[Name removed]

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[northernlights]

150. actually a more accurate analogy would be...

I hope I *never* come across your teenage daugher with a broke down cre in a bad part of town.

[Radical Activist]

13. The cop was jealous that someone else got to make a threat.

That's his job.

[ThomCat]

157. Yup, so he got to take it out on her

and ruin her career.

Big bad asshole cop. :grr:

[jobycom]

14. Hope they take her license, too.

A nurse who implies she might let a patient suffer or worse just because they upset her outside of the job does not need to be a nurse.

[ingac70]

31. +1

[msanthrope]

66. I would not want this person with vulnerable populations, at the least. n/t

[Cid_B]

86. Exactly..

Nothing ambiguous about this statement at all... Out and out threat...

[LanternWaste]

98. The only relevant difference you see, is merely in degrees. ..

Quite important that we hold people during their non-work hours to a work place standard. It should be applied to everyone and in every possible way-- not simply speech. If a workplace denies outlets fro frustration and stress in a verbal form, it seems quite equitable to deny it other physical forms too, including beer, wine and the occasional joint. :sarcasm:

If a waiter is at a party and implies she might let a customer eat a less-than-stellar meal, sge does not need to be a waitress.

The only relevant difference you see, is merely in degrees.

[jobycom]

No, the difference between smoking a joint and threatening a life is pretty extreme

when a nurse tells a cop she may violate the licensed trust of her profession just because she doesn't like him, that's a bit different than a record store clerk smoking a doobie before going to work and pushing the latest Mars Volta CD.

That's not a question of degree, it's a completely different animal. The nurse is licensed to work in a hospital, and that license requires certain vows and oaths that she was violating with her threat.

[uppityperson]

135. Except that isn't what she did. She said she'd rather not have to care for him professionally

Most of us have had to care for people we don't want to, but we do it anyway. Saying you hope you'd not have to care for someone is far different from "violate the licensed trust of her profession". There are many assholes I hope I'd never have to take care of. Not threatening them, simply stating the fact I'd rather not.

[uppityperson]

134. A nurse who implies they'd rather not have an asshole under their care

is fine with me so long as that nurse acts professionally on the job no matter who the patient is.

[Obamanaut]

21. She wasn't happy because she was stopped for speeding. How dare

anyone expect her to obey the speed limit! :sarcasm:

She had every right to say anything she wanted to, and now she will enjoy the consequences (actions often have them.)

[TreasonousBastard]

22. A threat is a threat, and highly unprofessional, although...

it seems kinda chickenshit for the cop to report it.

[bahrbearian]

139. How can that be taken as a threat?

Its like when the Infectious Disease Doctor told me he never wanted to see me again,(Is was a really tough case)
A Cardiac Nurse saying I hope your never a Patent of Mine is like saying "God bless you"

[TreasonousBastard]

153. I don't know if there's any code of ethics for nurses, but...

any licensed professional knows better than to bring up his or her profession in a personal matter.

Even if there was no specific threat mentioned or implied, even the idea that she may view him as something other than just another patient sounds unprofessional.

Having said that, I still think reporting her was chickenshit, and firing her seems a bit over the top.

(Although, there may be more to this than we know.)

[CreekDog]

23. I don't know about fired, but she was definitely wrong

And my credibility in criticizing cops here is well-established.

I think there should be punishment for using one's authority or position to threaten or intimidate another.

[seabeyond]

40. with you on your whole post. i will also be the first to point a finger at cop abuse

but i know i would be hesitant being confident in her ability for care with a comment like that, too.

[DeltaLitProf]

24. Fire the cop and reinstate the nurse.

The cop abused his power far worse than the nurse did. And it was pathetic behavior to boot. What self-respecting man decides he wants to lash out at some woman based on being offended at what she said. Is this guy going around trying to get everybody fired who doesn't treat him like he's Kojak?

[datan]

25. huh

how did the cop abuse his power? All he did was to make a complaint. Her bosses did the firing. Anyone whether or not a cop can complain.

Imagine the nurse said the same thing to Joe the waiter for keeping her waiting. And if Joe complained to her hospital, would Joe be abusing his power?

[FarPoint]

47. Get real....

The cowardly officer new exactly what the outcome would be with knowning she would be in deep, deep trouble.....it was passive-aggressive; outright intent to do harm, " I'll show you intent"...A Power Control issue for an obviously inadequate police officer....he needs to be examined for actually doing harm knowingly.....

[seabeyond]

50. if it is an inadequate officer, then it certainly, obviously is the same for the nurse

right? and if the nurse is so inadequate, then maybe it is a good thing she was fired.

[Amaril]

62. +1 n/t

[Cid_B]

88. This is stupid...

He reported to her supervisor a direct threat against his person. I'm glad he did and I would do the same. Even if she didn't take it out on him personally she obviously has too little emotional control. The threat implies that she is capable of denying care to anyone (maybe another officer or any member of the public who has earned her ire).

[seabeyond]

41. are you saying a man must take all and women can do all. that really isnt... equal.

what an absurd position

[jobycom]

110. Yeah, his life was threatened. What kind of fucking coward gets upset about that?

Christ, it's not like someone so unstable and unprofessional that she'd threaten a cop would EVER sink to that level on a regular citizen! Could never, never happen. We've never seen a case ever of a nurse or doctor letting someone die on the floor of a waiting room just because she was miffed.

And you are so right. Giving someone a ticket for speeding is extremely unprofessional for a cop.

[datan]

26. because

Let's assume it was an innocent remark i.e. the nurse simply meant that she didn't want to be treating him professionally.

Would you fire a waitress who told a customer "I hope you never come back?" If the waitress can't deal with the one aspect of her job which is to treat customers professionally -- maybe the waitress should look for another job.

Or what if you got into an accident with a firefighter who said "I hope I never see you outside a burning house (while on duty)" (which I think is closer in implication to what the nurse said). Would you take that as a threat?

[uppityperson]

67. Exactly. "I hope I never have to care for you" is how I read it also. Not a threat but not wanting

to have to treat him professionally.

Not a threat at all but a desire to never have to treat him professionally.

[old mark]

29. Some hospitals have very strict methods of dealing with "problem" employees, which means

anyone they don't like. This really applies mostly to nursing - doctors are...doctors, after all...

It can be a tough job when you have to deal with the actual work and then put up with a very punative administration as well.


mark

[ingac70]

30. No one dislikes cops as much as me....

but nurses should not say shit like that. She has no right being a nurse to even think it. What a vile thing to say over a fucking speeding ticket.

[ROFF]

140. I agree

Waiting for the cop to be her patient, and possibly be unable to defend himself, is wrong. If she has a beef, take it to his superiors.

I wonder if she has already taken "revenge" out on other patients. Sounds like she has the personality to do so.

[eilen]

32. How do we know he didn't stop her on her way to work?

Heck if she was really late, that means the overworked tired nurse that she was relieving was stuck there. Perhaps she doesn't want to be the person that has to carry his bedpan, I don't blame her. Maybe he looked like a heart attack waiting to happen. She is a cardiac nurse. I don't ever want to be in the hospital for cardiac reasons either.

Nurses really don't have any power, even at work for petty retribution. First, they are too busy. Are you kidding me? If someone complains to the hospital about your care you are screwed.

[TexasObserver]

35. That's no excuse, and why she ended up losing her job.

The very idea that a nurse can play the "I'm a nurse" card for speeding is absurd.

If the nurse on duty has to wait five more minutes, so what? They can work that out between the nurse who had to stay five minutes late and the nurse who arrived five minutes late.

[dgibby]

52. You are dead wrong in your assertion

that nurses don't have any power for retribution, petty or not. I'm a retired RN, and I can assure you I had the power to make your life a living hell if I'd wanted to do so. I never did, nor would I condone anyone else doing it, but it is very easy to do.

Examples: Are you in pain? I can make you wait for the pain meds. Bedridden, and need a bedpan or drink of water? Once again, I can make you wait. Need some extra TLC? Sorry, too busy. All passive-agressive methods of wielding power, and hard to detect, especially in an environment that is constantly understaffed.

Again, I would never to any of those things, and as a supervisor, I'd have fired anyone who did do those things, but never think that nurses don't have any power.

[seabeyond]

54. exactly. i had a nurse friend who worked ER tell me, those really hard to deal with, she used a

bigger needle and made sure just that much more painful than was needed. (she was out of nursing at the time)

i was literally appalled. my mouth dropped. just looking at her. picturing this.

i told her, that is a horrible thing to do

she thought it cute, but when she saw i was serious, took back the story. and maybe it was just a story. i dont know. but i was really bothered by it.

5 yrs go by and she gets back into profession recently. when talking about going back in, i said something to her about that. she said, no, she didn't do, would never do.

but

i dont trust her.

[eilen]

131. I don't doubt that for real assholes

that nurse didn't mind sticking them. However, the size of the needle is part of the route in giving the medication correctly. Larger gauge needles are used for intramuscular meds.

IV's placed in the ED are always larger than not because they may need to be used for transfusions or for tests that use a high pressure injectable dye.

I think she was engaging in some fantasy speculation. The most obnoxious patients seem to get the most attention, mostly just to shut them up.

[seabeyond]

141. thank you for the explanation. she is a friend. but it really made me look at her

differently.

[eilen]

132. Maybe that is the case where you worked or when your worked

but where I work, the nurses are fierce advocates for their patients. No one "makes" anyone wait for pain meds if they can help it. Granted, there are other priorites when caring for large groups of hospital patients-- the floors are so understaffed that the concept a nurse is doing this (causing patients to wait longer than they need to for meds) is ridiculous. Sometimes the meds need to be held if the pt is having trouble staying awake.

Almost no one gets extra TLC anymore. Who has the time? The nurse I helped the other night had 10 patients on an acute heart floor all evening with no help for meds and was getting hit with admissions left and right. One pt was such a screaming jerk one night they had to call security up to explain appropriate behavior as they were concerned he was a threat to his roommate.

[TexasObserver]

34. She was way out of line. A reprimand was appropriate, not firing.

It was not a direct threat. It was haughty.

Her statement suggested she was communicating "you'd better hope I'm not on duty if they bring you in shot or having a heart attack!"

She got a ticket for speeding. We can probably conclude she was speeding, and in her mind, being a nurse somehow gave her a "get out of ticket free card" for speeding violations.

[TheDebbieDee]

36. .......................

"After she was fired, Leverington sued the city of Colorado Springs, which runs Memorial hospital, and Peters, claiming they violated her right to free speech."

She got her "free speech". And her employers let her know that they didn't like what she said by terminating her - that was their "free speech".

[ingac70]

42. +1

[lunatica]

38. I'm amazed that a policeman would consider that one of the deadly hazards of his job

What a fucking whining wimp.

My first thought is that he should get hazed by his fellow cops for doing such a cowardly thing. Way to give cops a whiny and pouting reputation.

She said mean things to me! Waaaaaaah!

And losing her job over it is just as bad. Is this a damned police state already?

[seabeyond]

39. i dont know. if i were in a high risk job that could get my ass in the hospital and i had someone

saying that to me...

ya

it was a really really stupid thing to say

and i cant really shrug it off that she would have risen above her anger and given the care he needed

stupid thing to say

[Hosnon]

43. She probably didn't mean much by it but how fucking stupid and unprofessional.

And the cop deserves to be shunned in the community for whining.

[Scuba]

44. Doesn't exactly convey the caring attitude I would hope for...

...in a healthcare professional, but hardly a firing offense.

[rainbow4321]

45. It was common knowledge at our county hospital

That if you were (are) a county hospital nurse, the city police would let you slide if you got stopped. Either a county hospital window sticker, your stethescope hanging from your rear view mirror, or you conveniently pulling out your badge as you reach for your license would do. Reason given: the cops knew, they get hurt in the line of duty, that nurse was/is part of the medical community who would be there for him/her. Doesn't work if the county hospital nurse gets stopped in the suburban cities or counties, it would have to be in the urban county.

[seabeyond]

48. well, that is just too bad the a medical profession would take advantage of that unbalanced

scale and able to break the law for the privilige of not being unprofessional if a cop is hurt.

that is really sad.

[Nye Bevan]

53. Wow. So nurses could drive at 100mph without fear of getting a ticket

because the cops were afraid that if they ticketed them, and later on ended up in the hospital, they might be retaliated against by the nurse they had ticketed?

That's *exactly* how I want our legal system to function.

[rainbow4321]

151. Nothing to do with fear of retaliation

and everything to do with the officers knowing that these were the nurses who would be there for them and their colleagues in their time of need, they've seen first hand how the county's health care professionals care for the injured officers, so any decision on the part of the officers was more of a nod to that and not fear of being on the receiving end of retaliation from a health care worker.

[Hepburn]

51. WTF?

I am sure she was not serious. The cop? What a fucking asshole ~~ but no surprise here. Rarely that I see one that is not a complete waste.

[seabeyond]

55. are you sure she was not serious? are you so sure, when vulnerable and incapable

counting on her to be professional?

i would not be.

[wmbrew0206]

56. It is very possible that her comments were found to violate a section of professionalism

expected of nurses in her contract and that is what she was fired for.

A lot of jobs come with professional standard or professional conduct expect and violation of those standards can be grounds for termination. If Ms. Leverington signed such a contract and the hospital made the decision that she violated professional standards, she just might be SOL.

[Urban Prairie]

57. "Leverington claims that during the stop, Peters was rude and that his attitude prompted her comment

Seems to me that her case hinges entirely upon whether or not the cop was rude to her BEFORE she made that comment about hoping that he would never be her patient. What she deemed to be rude behavior on the part of the officer, that prompted her response, may or may not be accurate. We know what she said, but we don't know what his allegedly "rude" behavior was.

[seabeyond]

58. doesnt matter. she still has ownership for what SHE said. nt

[Urban Prairie]

63. Yeah...she should have kept her mouth shut

And instead called his precinct boss afterward, and filed a complaint about his allegedly rude behavior. If it really was rude enough, then the officer would likely have received a reprimand or suspension... :/

She could have also contested the ticket in court, and then recounted his rudeness to a judge or magistrate, although his behavior would not change the fact that she was speeding. It would just give her the opportunity to express her indignation over the cop's rude behavior, if true.

Not defending her comment, btw...I would just like to know exactly and truthfully what she thought was "rude" behavior by the cop.

[dgibby]

59. I'm a retired RN,

and the daughter of a police officer.

She was speeding, got a ticket. The officer was doing his job. He could have charged her with reckless endangerment to the public and any number of other charges if he'd wanted. She mouthed off, implied that she'd retaliate if he were ever her patient. I've heard nurses say stuff like that to each other. Some of them were just blowing off steam, others really meant it.

Whether or not she meant it, she should never have said it. It was, to say the least, very unprofessional, and brought discredit to herself, the nursing profession, and the hospital.

Considering his chances of ending up as one of her patients are higher than average, no doubt he took that as a threat. Can't say I blame him, and he had every right to complain to the hospital about her behavior. As for knowing she'd be fired, I suspect he just wanted them to reprimand her.

The hospital had every right to fire her for her conduct, however I would have expected a warning/reprimand first. That makes me wonder if they'd had problems with her in the past, and this was the straw that broke the camel's back.

The last thing the hospital needs is a rift between the police and the medical community. They are very dependent on each other, and each needs to know the other has their back.

[KansasVoter]

73. How many complaints about Cops get them fired? LOL.

[dgibby]

81. I don't know the number,

but speaking from personal experience, my dad was Chief of Police, and I can assure you he didn't tolerate wrongdoing on the part of his officers. He fired one in a skinny minute for engaging in a high speed chase and wrapping the police car around a tree. He had a no high speed chase order, and that officer violated it. In his 40+ years as an officer, he never once used his gun, even when he was talking a guy out of killing one of my teachers. Just talked him down, got the shotgun away from him, and was able to stop a murder/suicide.

Of course, that was a long time ago, when there were no tazers, no swat teams, etc. He must have been doing something right, though. There were so many people at his funeral that they had to put loudspeakers outside the church, and the route from the church to the cemetery was lined 4 deep on both sides of the road by people paying their respects.

I think he'd be very sad to see what's happening today. I'm glad he didn't live long enough to experience it. It would have broken his heart.

[KansasVoter]

85. Your dad sounds like a great man! .............

My worry is that are not many like him. I think now the chief of police first think how to get the officer out of trouble!

[dgibby]

91. Thanks!

I think he was pretty special, but I admit I'm more than just a little biased!

I really didn't know much about his work, because he didn't bring it home with him, but his funeral was a real eye opener. People I didn't know came up to tell me stories about how he'd helped them.

We lived in a small town, no school buses. It got really cold in the winter, and some of the kids had to walk across this long bridge that spanned all the RR tracks and the river. He'd leave for work early, pick up the kids in the squad car and take them to school so they didn't have to walk that bridge in ice and snow.

One of my friends told me that his dad was an alcoholic and that the only reason he was able to keep his job on the RR was because my dad would find him downtown drunk and take him to the police station, sober him up, and make sure he got to work on time. My friend told me they'd have been homeless if his dad had lost his job.

Stories like that left me absolutely speechless. I knew he was well-liked and respected, but I had no idea he did stuff like that.

He died in '67, and his entire salary for that year was about $4,400, so he
sure wasn't in it for the money!

[KansasVoter]

130. Neat story! I am sure you miss him every day!

[uppityperson]

78. Why do you say his chances of being her pt are "higher than average"?

Cops have more cardiac problems than average? Talking back to a cop giving you a ticket will pretty much ensure you get the ticket, but what he did sure created a larger rift. He had the choice to blow it off as an upset motorist, of which I am sure there are many, but decided to take it the extra step and widen the rift between police and medical community.

[dgibby]

84. I was refering to the dangers associated with his job,

not cardiac. My bad. I was thinking Critical Care, not Cardiac Care.

[mitchum]

105. This is where I make a joke about doughnut consumption and the likelihood of cardiac care

:)

[TexasObserver]

144. A very sound analysis.

[killbotfactory]

60. I don't miss Colorado Springs

It was a stupid remark made in a moment of stress. No one deserves to be fired over it.

[Brickbat]

61. There's no excuse to saying something like that. That's totally out of line. I wonder if she has a

history of saying such things, or otherwise being totally unprofessional like this. I'm also betting she doesn't have a union.

[Honeycombe8]

71. I was guessing that, too. She may have a history of trouble making for her employer.

In this day and age, when good nurses are in high demand, it seems extreme to fire her for one comment, unless they'd had other incidents with her.

[madmom]

64. "I hope you are not ever my patient," could also mean...

that she hopes she doesn't ever have to care for a person that she thought was what,.. bad, wrong, nasty toward her. It doesn't necessarily mean she would do anything wrong, just that she wouldn't LIKE doing what ever it is she was doing to help him.

[Urban Prairie]

70. If she actually had said

"YOU had better hope that you are not ever my patient" then I could see how her statement would be considered moreso as an actual threat, JMO.

[uppityperson]

76. Exactly. thank you

[Honeycombe8]

68. She shouldn't have made that comment. Out of line. But for the officer to report it?

How petty. He had to know that she was just ticked off about getting a ticket.

But once reported, her employer HAD to discipline her. To use her medical employment as a sort of threat is discipline worthy. But I would've just reprimanded her in her record, or suspended her for a few days. To fire her seems extreme. Makes me wonder if they'd had trouble with her before, and that was the last straw.

[KansasVoter]

74. How many complaints about COPS them them fired? Almost none. Cops.....

get away with stuff none of us ever would.

[uppityperson]

75. As a nurse, good grief people. Get a grip. I've had lots of patients I didn't like, but treated

the same as those I did. "I hope you are never my patient" means, to me, "I hope I never have to treat you professionally since I prefer to like my patients, but if I do I will still be professional".

For those who say she acted "unprofessionally", I remember my first nursing job, wayyyyy back, where we were told we weren't supposed to go out to bars or parties since people might see us and question our ability to be professional on the job. That was bullshit as it this.

Yes, nurses can make your stay in a hospital a living hell, but this was no threat, any more than "I hope you are not ever my boyfriend" would be.

Having a job does not limit your ability to speak outside your job and this was no threat. I hope they reinstate her quickly.

[bighart]

77. Let's say the situation was reversed and the nurse was caring for the cop

He thinks she is "being rude" and makes a statement like "hope I never see you in the line of duty". What are the implications of such a statement? Would she be making a reasonable assumption to think that he is saying he may treat her less than professionally? Would it be petty of her to report him?

[Urban Prairie]

83. Well that depends on what rude behavior by the nurse would constitute

What if the nurse came into his room and jabbed him roughly with a needle, then yanked his pillow out from under his head before waking him first? Or say she ignored his requests for assistance to use the restroom/bedpan or administer his pain medications on schedule, always being late? I have actually had these situations happen to me when hospitalized.

[Name removed]

87. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[frylock]

94. are you suggesting that he should have used one of those on the nurse?

i'm as critical of the police as most people, but all he did was LODGE A COMPLAINT. he didn't fire her, the hospital did. in this age where the pigs feel justified in tazing just about anybody, i find it refreshing that the cop went through proper channels.

[NeedleCast]

89. Another dumbass who doesn't understand how Free Speech works

She was not denied her free speech. The constitution does not say anything about the consequences of using your right to free speech.

[Canuckistanian]

90. Assholes all around on this one

-The nurse, for threatening less than adequate care

-The cop, for calling the nurse's employer

And

- The hospital for actually firing her

But overall, the cop is the biggest asshole here.

[COLGATE4]

92. The whole concept here of her 'right to free speech' being

violated is being bootstrapped by the nurse. The First Amendment protections ONLY refer to interference with a person's speech by the Government. Private parties are free to interfere with your speech rights all the time. She's attempting to make it a First Amendment issue because Memorial Hospital is apparently somehow connected with the City of Colorado Springs. It may be a tough case to make.

[asdjrocky]

93. What a jerk.

I'm trying to think, what do we call people that do stuff like that? Oh yeah, a snitch.

More from our heroes in blue.

[MedicalAdmin]

95. I'm with the cop on this one - mostly.

First of all the Nurse holds a professional license which means that there are professional ethical codes of conduct that must be followed no matter where or when you are. A licensed professional doesn't stop being one outside of 9 - 5. By Leverington saying that she "hoped you are not ever my PATIENT." She identified herself as a professional and should have been acting within the ethical bounds of her license no matter where or when she was. That she also included a veiled threat she went WAY over the line.

However, I think both the cop and the supervisors in this case could have handled this differently. I wouldn't support firing UNLESS this nurse already has a file full of "incidents" at the hospital.

As a professional, that nurse is completely out of line.

[mitchum]

97. I've hummed "Amazing Grace" while pretending to take a long time...

reading a traffic ticket. The armed and uniformed revenue collector grew visibly agitated (he got the message), but there was jack he could do about it.

[ecstatic]

100. Wow, this is a first for me... but I'm going to side with the cop on this one

There's a very high likelihood that he will indeed be a patient at the hospital one day (injured while on the job). She was out of line.

[Lucian]

101. Nothing like getting fired for shit you did while you weren't punched in.

Gotta love America. :eyes:

[SoCalDem]

112. Some jobs come with implicit codes of behavior

and often the paperwork you sign when hired, includes stuff like this.

She may not be a doctor, but as a nurse, she is expected to treat EVERYONE...even people she may not "like"..

I can understand why she was upset, but as a policeman, he faces the very real possibility that someday he might be brought, unconscious, to a hospital and he probably would like to know that some nurse with a longstanding grudge might not be HIS nurse..

If the stop was unwarranted, she has other ways to fight it, without mouthing-off to a cop.

That was one thing we really drove home to our sons as they were learning to drive.. NEVER mouth off if you are stopped. Accept the ticket, and fight it later, if you must.

[uppityperson]

137. Of course she'd treat him, but she is well within her rights to have an opinion about him

well within her rights to not want to treat him, even while she was.

Don't mouth off to a cop indeed as they have powers to make you hurt. That said, I understand why she would say this and what she meant. "I hope I don't have to deal with you on my job" not "I will treat you like shit on my job".

[seabeyond]

143. how can you say "of course she would". you dont know. the cop didnt know.

that is the issue. and that is the problem saying something really really stupid like this. you lose trust.

you dont get it back

how can she?

[uppityperson]

145. I guess we are all judging her based on our opinions of ourselves and of nurses we know

It makes me really sad that so many people have such a negative opinion.

Secondly, if a cop took the absolute worst take on every negative comment he heard, he'd be so busy running around complaining to employers that he'd not be doing much good being a cop. He had the chance to blow this off as a "pissed off ticket getter" but decided to react in such a negative fashion. Shame on him.

[seabeyond]

147. well, i am just a normal person, leading a normal life and if a nurse said that to me

i would not want to put myself in her care. trust... it is a tough thing when we are vulnerable.

it is not a negative opinion of nurses or their profession. it is of a particular person that would say something like that out loud, in a time when a person is dependent on them that is the issue

i have been in hospital only a couple times, to have babies and i loved my nurses. loved them. and appreciative. and sorry they had to take care of mess. and understanding how hard a job and the expectation so beyond.

but if i heard a nurse talking like this, i would not want her caring for me.

[Curmudgeoness]

102. It used to be that no cop with an IQ over 50 would give a nurse

a ticket. Never. My sister is a nurse in a trauma center. She did get one ticket, from a rookie cop. The other cops told him he was dumber than a doorknob, anonymously called her and told her to be in court and that the cop would not show up.

Whether this is fair or not is not my argument. I am saying that cops usually treat nurses as well as they treat other cops. They know that nurses will be there if they need them---which is always too close for comfort in a cop's life. I would bet all that I have that this nurse would treat this cop just as well as she treated any patient if he really did show up as her patient.

[seabeyond]

106. if they felt they would be treated well regardless they would not have the need to be sure not to

give ticket just in case they needed the nurse and needed to be treated properly.

the action reaction re reaction does not make sense, without the consideration that they may not get proper medical care

which makes it all the more sad.

[Curmudgeoness]

119. I really think it is more of a respect issue for nurses than that they

are afraid they will be treated poorly if they do give a ticket. But I don't know. It could be that tiny fear that just maybe a nurse might not do all that they can, whether that feeling is justified or not

[jobycom]

111. That's a different and very cool take on it. nt

[SoCalDem]

115. How would one "know" that the person stopped was a nurse?

My DL never had my occupation listed on it.

Giving "free passes" for bad driving is not a good idea.

[Curmudgeoness]

118. Cop asks, where are you going. To work. Where is that.... nt

[SoCalDem]

120. I've only gotten one ticket

and all he asked was for my license & registration & then informed me that I was speeding.. I said nothing except for "thank you" when he gave me my stuff back :)

I was pissed, since three semis PASSED me while he was following me, but oh well.. I paid the ticket & grumbled to myself:)

[seabeyond]

122. you THANKED him. dont you see it a bit absurd, thanking a cop for a ticket... lol

being the nice gal i am, i want to say thanks too... but i dont let myself because why the hell should i thank for a ticket. and i have gotten WAY more than one. twice, two in one day, travelin.

[SoCalDem]

123. I'm a "she"..and I thanked him when he handed me back my license & registration

NOT for the ticket.. (I was speeding) :)

[seabeyond]

126. oh, socaldem, i know. sometimes, and especially getting older

what i am saying in my brain does not go down to the fingers typing.

i can see a thank you for your stuff back.

[SoCalDem]

129. My son laughed at me when I told him...

"really Mom...thank you?"

[Codeine]

146. I thanked the cop the one yime I was ticketed many years ago.

I don't know why, other than I was raised to be polite. In our area the ticket form has a little space where the officer can write a comment regarding the demeanor of the person receiving the citation; he wrote 'Extremely cooperative and polite' and when the traffic judge saw the notation I got my fine significantly cut.

In that case politeness paid. I suspect that my attitude has been a big part of me never receiving another ticket even after getting pulled over several times for minor violations (taillights out -- I had no freaking idea they were out for who knows how long!, speeding, expired registration, no registration tag because some douchenozzle peeled mine off, speeding, rolling a stop, speeding, and speeding).

[seabeyond]

148. i hear ya... it is automatic. the polite thing we are conditioned with.

but.... i i i i have to stop self. i will say have a good day or something, but not a thank you. and

i am bad.

i have gotten out of at least double from what i have actually been ticketed, s for the most part, i dont bitch.

have had a couple assholes, and i do bitch. but i have had more that arent assholes.

i figure i am just donating to city adn let it go.

[rainbow4321]

152. +1000

I wish I could rec your reply!

[lynne]

104. Fired due to threat of physical harm. I support the cop 100% on this -

- she was speeding, he was doing his job. She then threatens him with potential harm should he ever be her patient. As someone who has had family members in cardiac units, the last thing you want there is a hot-head with a grudge. I don't blame him in the least as - who knows - he could end up her patient. She got what she deserved and she needs to find another line of work in an industry that doesn't include working with the general public.

[lefty2000]

117. Duaine?

You got to feel sorry for a cop named Duaine. He's got something prove, every day of his life. Can you imagine the ribbing he must get in the locker room?

[SoCalDem]

121. His Momma couldn't spell.. I knew a guy named Antweeon

His nickname was "Wee"..:)

[Downtown Hound]

124. That was pretty stupid on the nurse's part

I don't know about being fired, but she should know to not use her position like that.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

125. That's a veiled threat. Fuck her. -nt

[treestar]

127. How dumb to take that seriously

Really, there must be more to this. Vindictive cop in this case.

[BlueIris]

136. Some police officers seem to enjoy abusing power in *every* way.

Asshat.

[mstinamotorcity]

138. Was that like

Have a nice day!!:dilemma: :dilemma: :dilemma:

[Vinnie From Indy]

149. What is really bizarre is that the nurse works with animals in an animal hospital

I am shocked this cop did not give the nurse a ride on 'Ol Sparky The Taser Gun for disrespecting his authority.

Sounds like both of them are a bit high-strung and idiots to boot.

[liquid diamond]

158. What a sissy. Did the piglet have his little feelings hurt?

Man up!

[McCamy Taylor]

161. Hers was unprofessional behavior. Nurses as well as doctors must put the patint first.

I am physician and if I ever heard another doctor or nurse talk like this, there would be consequences.

[w4rma]

163. The cop's was unprofessional behavior. This cop falsly accused her because he didn't like her. (nt)