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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 05:35 AM
Original message
The Cult of the Magical Teacher: Our National Delusion
For quite some time now, the American public has been told over and over again by movies, romances, newspapers, and politicians that the best teachers are miracle workers....After all, Jaime Escalante did it in Stand and Deliver...Erin Gruwell did it in Freedom Writers...LouAnne Johnson did it in Dangerous Minds...

Policy-makers, superintendents, and professional development gurus make a lot of these teachers' stories. Over and over again, I've heard people like Wendy Kopp, Joel Klein, Alfred Tatum, Paul Vallas, and Michelle Rhee say things like, "You don't have to change a student's socio-economic status, their home life, or their history. All you have to do is put a great teacher in front of them and they will succeed." And this really isn't an argument you want to find yourself on the other side of. If you disagree and argue that a student's home life does matter, you're easily dismissed as someone who doesn't really believe in children...

But there are reasons to be wary of this narrative. To begin with, most of the inspirational teacher movies you see, while based on a true story, alter significant realities, which delude the viewer into a misunderstanding of teaching. Take Jamie Escalante as an example. Stand and Deliver would have you believe that Escalante decided one day that he was going to teach calculus at a low-achieving school....It took Escalante ten years to reach the success the movie depicts. And he did it by building a strong math program from the ground up, not by taking students struggling with arithmetic in high school and getting them to calculus within a year.

Also, many of the teachers who are publicized for their students’ outstanding achievements lack proof for their claims. Michelle Rhee famously has no evidence of her students’ rising from the 13th percentile to the 90th. Another interesting reality plaguing many of these educators is that very few of them stay in the classroom longer than a few years. Michelle Rhee stayed for three, William Taylor is in his third and getting ready to get his administrative certificate, Erin Gruwell left teaching after seeing her students graduate...It does strike me as odd, though, that the teachers that write and star in all the inspirational movies, books, and articles about their amazing success are no longer actually teaching...

Real teaching often looks a lot like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ6BmABQbXY

http://www.anurbanteacherseducation.com/2010/06/cult-of-magical-teacher-our-national.html







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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 05:51 AM
Response to Original message
1. Very True,Ma'am:the 'Problem'Of Public Education Is The Problem Of Public Life
There is a wide-spread pretence out there that schools and teachers can make up for the malign influences of social disintegration produced by stagnant wages, by functional illiteracy among parents, by uncertainty and poverty and emotional upset entailed by these things.

If people want schools to improve, want students to get better educations, pay parents higher wages and employ more of them.
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
23. Doesn't fit their business model.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Very True, Ma'am: Their Intent Is To Put the Public School Budget In Their Bank Accounts
Edited on Fri Sep-24-10 06:16 PM by The Magistrate
The thought of a publicly spent dollar that does not go directly into a connected corporation's coffers troubles their sleep....
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Imagine. We used to study the demise of the American Indian. Now its us.
Edited on Fri Sep-24-10 06:15 PM by MichiganVote
And basically at the hands of the same type of shark. Big fish eating little fish.
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
26. exactly
the pushers for school privatization are exploiting the areas of the country most affected by these problems and then using their "success" to peddle the propaganda everywhere else.
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whyverne Donating Member (734 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 06:05 AM
Response to Original message
2. Reminds me of any multi-level marketing pitch.
Show the 1% who make money and say "They did it, why can't you?"

The same thing is laid on the poor kids. Show the 1 or 2 percent who get out of poverty, (mostly "Type A" people) and say "See, see; it can be done".

"Why aren't you exceptional? Must be your fault."
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #2
12. Excellent parallel.
Yes, it reminded me of Amway the other day.
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Gin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. it is exactly like multi level marketing.....never thought of that
comparison....
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
29. That Is An Excellent Insight, Sir
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 06:15 AM
Response to Original message
3. how hollywood distorts reality:
Edited on Fri Sep-24-10 06:20 AM by Hannah Bell
The writer teaches in a nyc school which had a good violin program that got filmed for a documentary, "small wonders"

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117669/

Then came the hollywood version with meryl streep as savior of the underprivileged black kids:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0166943/


This is hardly surprising because, in fact, when Hollywood got hold of "Small Wonders," they turned it into something rather different: a story about bad teachers, bad unions, and heroic white saviors. They publicized it as the "true" history of the music program at Central Park East school in East Harlem. They even had shots of the exterior of the actual CPE and roughly followed the history of the violin teacher. Except ...

They made the school's longtime, full-time music teacher—a remarkable guy named Barry Solowey—into a lazy, incompetent teacher who depended on the union to keep his job while the hero—Roberta—was threatened by a citywide lay-off. Barry had served 250 kids a year for more than a decade; Roberta served 100 eager volunteers—in three CPE-like East Harlem Schools (about 30-40 in each) for three or four years (at that time). Barry saw every class weekly, produced an annual opera and a Broadway musical, and ran three choral groups,—who also sang in Carnegie Hall— and he taught recorder to every interested child. Both teachers did superb work. But imagine our shame when we saw what Hollywood had done to the character clearly meant to describe Barry and a school called Central Park East.

They needed a "knight on a white horse" to make the story a popular hit. "Music of the Heart" (with Meryl Streep) was merely following the long-before, laid-out script about public schools and teachers and the organizations they fight to create.

http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/Bridging-Differences/2010/09/blog_-_thursday_sept_23.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+BridgingDifferences+%28Education+Week+Blog%3A+Bridging+Differences%29


and you wonder why so many people think us schools are failing -- not the ones their kids go to, but the ones -- in new york, or somewhere.

the music teacher was an excellent, energetic, dedicated & successful teacher (how many music teachers get their students to carnegie hall?) -- hollywood turned him into a lazy uncaring villain.

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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 06:27 AM
Response to Original message
4. Marking to watch later.
Have to wait till after school to watch anything about TFA. But will because you posted it.

Thanks Hannah.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. it's worth a watch. there are 7 videos: "the real world of teach for america"
Edited on Fri Sep-24-10 06:50 AM by Hannah Bell
gives somewhat honest picture of the range of tfa teachers & the kind of things they (& all teachers) deal with, especially in hard schools -- for example, 2/3 of the class being absent most days.

i say somewhat honest because the worst parts (one of the teachers mentioned a student threw a garbage can at him) weren't on film.

also the different personalities of the teacher, & you get a sense of how much the "fit" between the personalities of the teachers & students -- something that isn't a matter of methods -- can make a difference. the young man in the video i linked didn't appear to be a bad teacher per se -- but looked like kind of a nebbish, bookish type -- i'm guessing that was the real "problem." but he'd probably do fine with a different kind of class (i.e. one similar to his own socio-economic background).

otoh, a pretty whitebread girl seemed to have done well because of her confident, sociable personality, interest in sports & initiative in getting involved in the school sports program.

while another whitebread girl & a girl from an indian/pakistani family didn't do so well because they were so invested in getting total control of the classroom..

pretty interesting. but i don't see anything different or earth-shattering in their performance (and some of their problems) from more or less what i'd expect to happen to any first-year teachers as a group -- except first year teachers would be more prepared, because they'd have done practicum, etc., for starters.

There's one video where some come back & talk about their first year -- all of them laugh when asked how the training had helped them. one said the things the training had told them to do were the things he'd learned *not* to do. like touch a student on the shoulder "to communicate caring." They all said it was so much harder, physically & mentally exhausting, than anything they'd ever done. one said the first time she'd ever felt she was failing. these are students from yale, princeton, etc. only one opted to stay more than the required two years, and a couple left after the first year.

unlike the tfa propaganda videos, which make it look like all the students are totally motivated, always raising their hands to answer (even *two* hands!), & telling the teachers daily how wonderful they are compared to their usual teachers. it about gagged me to watch some of those. and they don't help the kids who join up prepare, either.

recommended. though maybe for actual teachers, not as interesting as i found it.

oops, now i wrote all that & found out you were talking about the other movies! but these videos are worth a watch too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fjjZLQ6VOk&feature=related
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 06:54 AM
Response to Original message
6. Recommend
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 06:56 AM
Response to Original message
7. Thank you.
:thumbsup: :thumbusp:
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Sabriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 06:59 AM
Response to Original message
8. Here's a very telling tidbit:
"Another interesting reality plaguing many of these educators is that very few of them stay in the classroom longer than a few years."

Gee, I wonder why that might be?

The other point the author makes is that it looks like Erin Gruwell only had one class. Who WOULDN'T shine under those conditions?
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. and some were never in one at all.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 06:59 AM
Response to Original message
9. Thanks for the links,
Too many people have absolutely no clue as to what happens in the classroom, what you have to deal with as a teacher. Like you said, they want miracles, and are horribly disappointed when they don't get them. It takes time and patience to work those miracles.
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Panaconda Donating Member (672 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 07:28 AM
Response to Original message
11. K&R
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exboyfil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
13. As a first pass how about giving teachers/administrators
the ability to stream kids by behavior and eventually performance when they reach middle school. You should have three groups - ones who are disruptive and not trying (rubber room for them or any better suggestions??), those who are challenged but trying (spend the most resources on them), and those who are doing well (give them adequate support and look for mentors for them to help them proceed faster through the school system). I don't think disruptive children should be in the same classroom with those who are not disruptive. I think that disruptive children and the parents who can't control them eventually lose their right to a quality education.

Once I am done tutoring and Homeschooling my kids, I would be willing to tutor on a more active basis for other children (I already help some of childrens' peers). I could not work with the first two groups though. Those require professional educators. I think you could get really good mentors for the third group though.

I know this is an oversimplification, but I have tailored my own children's education based upon these observations. Where it made sense I pushed to get them to the next academic level (8th grade Math and Science as 7th graders) or I am Homeschooling and emphasizing what is important (writing and critical thinking skills versus coloring maps or listening to sports stories).

We do have poor teachers in our good school system. I suspect you have even more poor teachers in the more challenged school systems. The progess of my children has been stunted by three teachers in particular. None of the three are really bad - just not what I have come to expect in our school system.
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. "rubber room"?
Edited on Fri Sep-24-10 07:54 AM by NYC_SKP
"disruptive children lose their right to an education"???

:wtf:

Many or most of those who would qualify for the "rubber room" under your scheme deserve better and might simply be victims of a system that perpetuates a failed concept that all children should conform to a singular educational model.

And many will have unidentified cognitive or emotional disabilities.

I agree that "streaming" may be a good idea, it ought not be based on conformity but rather on skills, interests, and learning styles.

The failure of public education is that it tries to force individual and unique human beings into a one-size-fits all educational model, and punishes those who will not conform.

:patriot:
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exboyfil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Rubber room was an overstatement
but some children don't belong around children who are trying to study and learn. For the younger grades effort should be expended to find the correct learning style etc, but when children reach middle school they need to understand the facts of life. My children do, and they work hard because they do.

I keep thinking about the video of the Obama middler school supporters saying that because of Obama, they can be engineers, doctors, architects, etc. The next question should have been what are you willing to sacrifice to make that dream a reality? My daughters, who are in Junior High, do 2-3 hours of homework a night, the television is mostly off, and they hang with friends who also take their studies seriously. Even with this effort, I am not sure that my youngest, who wants to be a doctor, will be able to fufill that dream.

On about $9K child/year our High School offers 16 votech/engineering courses, 18 business courses, 17 Art classes, a path to CNA and a start for a Nursing degree, seven AP classes, and eleven college classes. I think we are able to accomodate all sorts of learning styles, and we do get better results than our sister school district which spends more, but have more disruptive children. Still many kids do not avail themselves of these opportunities. Our sister school district does a pretty good job given the circumstances which they work under.

I think the discipline issue is the primary driver for seeking educational alternatives. I agree teachers are scapegoated, but if they are not given the tools to control their class (the threat of the rubber room being the biggest club), then no one gets any learning done. For $4K/year I could have my kids get a High School diploma from an organization like North Dakota Center for Distance Education. This is just one example.

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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. You think?!
That was highly insulting.

Btw, studies show homework doesn't raise test scores. Just sayin' . . .
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exboyfil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. I am not interested in NCLB test scores
Part of the learning process especially from the middle grades forward is homework. You cannot get good at doing Math without doing lots of problems. You cannot become a good writer without writing and receiving feedback. You cannot retain Social Studies and Science information without studying it and doing problems in Science. You cannot become a good reader without reading (preferably literature which stretches you).

The reality for the meaningful test scores (ACT, SAT, PSAT) is that the type of preparation done above is your best shot at doing well.

You can probably get by on a B without exerting yourself with homework, but you cannot get an A at our Junior High without doing what I have described. Granted their are individuals that test 2 Standard Deviations+ on cognitive assessment that spend less time on homework, but my daughters are at 1 1/2 standard deviations, so they need to put the extra time in to get the A in Honors classes. I was that way going through school. I had teachers trying to hold me back because of some test scores. I did not let them then, and I will not let them do the same to my daughters.

There is good homework such as doing lots of Algebra problems especially mixing them up with different types, and there is bad homework such as looking for vocabulary words in a novel (the most time wasting activity that I can imagine). There is good homework in assigning lots of essays which are actually corrected and given back for rewrite, and there is bad homework when middle school kids spend hours coloring and doing other art projects for core subjects (they already have an art class). There is good homework in doing experiments and writing up lab reports based upon textbooks and external readings, and there is bad homework by doing find a words (actually kind of fun but not really meaningful).

The best model is still lecture, reading, homework, and test. The highest performing kids - the ones who become doctors, engineers, lawyers, accountants and so forth do this. In my opinion the best kids are better than ever. My daughters are a year ahead of my progress at the same age. They have to be. We have kids who are three years ahead in math.

I don't know what kind of homework is being assigned, and, if you are considering NCLB versus the top students excelling. The expectation for entry into some schools and all merit scholarships is As in Honors classes. You also need to have a state level placement in something else (such as sports, speech, art, debate, music etc). Probably even more. The kids I see graduating are truly amazing.

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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-10 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #28
37. The best model is not lecture.
Right there, you lost the debate with me. Just because they still lecture in med school, that doesn't mean it's the most effective model. I definitely would not look to med schools for best educational practices, as most research proves that their techniques are the worst. People succeed there in spite of the teaching methods used in the first two years (after that, they're out in the hospitals, and the techniques there are different). I helped my ex get through med school: I was horrified at what they were doing.

Lecture is the most effective method for conveying huge amounts of material. Just don't expect that material to get assimilated well.
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exboyfil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-10 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #37
43. It may be a learning style thing
but watching a professor solve bunches of engineering problems seemed to be the best learning experience for me in engineering college. Those who would discuss the thought process behind the solution as they went get extra props. Those who would then give alternative approaches made it even better. That is how you learn in engineering college (at least to crawl). You are eventually given the opportunity to present your own findings in design courses.

My math professors in college where true maestros when it came to keeping a huge auditorium interested in the material. The same could be said for my chemistry professors. We had recitation sections to support these lectures, but I did get so much out of those lectures. I can't say the same for my physics professors who just read yellowed tired notes and looked like they wanted to be anyplace but in front of us. They were a true indictment of the tenure system and should never have been around Freshman/Sophomores. From talking to kids at Purdue, it sounds like that hasn't changed, but the true artists in the math department are gone.

What I turn on to is the passion and knowledge, and it applies to any subject. Get a hook for each lecture and go with it. I still remember when Calculus clicked for me. It was in a huge lecture hall about two weeks into the semester.

I also enjoy discussions and the give and take of a more qualitative class such as business, law, or ethics. Even those require a lecture component in my opinion. I loved the how it turned out portions of my MBA case classes. That is lecture as well, and it was done in an interesting fashion by a couple of my professors.

I can't comment on med school. I hope to learn all about it as my youngest progresses through, but she is only in 7th grade right now. I still think the highly technical portion may best be taught through lecture (watch the lecture hall full of vet students mesmerized by the giraffe dissection which Richard Dawkins attended).

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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-26-10 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #43
49. It's partly learning style and partly delivery.
I actually attended some of my ex's med school lectures on Saturdays (they had class six days a week in order to accommodate the huge amount of material). Wretched (and I'm a lecture lover as well). Plainly wretched. Horrible delivery, too much information, droning style, etc. Apparently, that was the norm with a few stand-outs who could actually teach.

Lecture depends on having visual and auditory students in the room. If you learn best those two ways, then it works. If you don't, you're screwed. While 80% of all learners are primarily visual learners, that doesn't mean that showing PowerPoint slides for an hour or so is going to automatically work. There are factors of how much material per slide, how much on the board, how much material in the lecture itself, delivery, etc.

My father, sister-in-law, and brother (not to mention a few cousins) are all engineers, so I can understand your point about engineering (though we're a Michigan State family :P ), but keep in mind that you're dealing with a self-selecting population there. Engineers are highly visual/spatial learners, so lecture can work with them. Also, most are pretty driven in order to make it to the 300-400 level classes, so they have the study skills, reading skills, and material acquisition skills they need to succeed in that particular environment.

Think back, instead, to your 100-level liberal arts classes. Did lecture work there as effectively? What about all the students who flunked out, despite working hard, showing up to class, and turning everything in (there are many who fit that description, actually, though we like to say they flunked out due to fallibility)--did lecture work for them?

Most of my students are kinesthetic learners (they need to manipulate objects and move around in order to remember best--it's often like having Stomp perform in class, what with all the tapping and rhythmic sounds our students create). Lecture loses them. They tune/zone out, as lecture makes them sit passively and just listen or take notes (which gets them off track, as many are serious doodlers/artists as well). These kids take machining classes, welding classes, and construction classes at the tech center in town and will be the ones building and fixing things in the future--we need them to learn and be successful in life, and to do that, we first have to get them to learn and master skills.
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. You left out the word "quality."
And disruptive students de facto waive their right to a quality education. Perhaps alternative educational programs should be in place, perhaps alternative methods of teaching are required; perhaps it's necessary to find surrogates for much of their home environment.

If the kid doesn't collaborate with the teacher, though, there's no way to force information and skills into a kid's brain. However, there is the very real possibility that by allowing disruptive students to be disruptive you prevent allowing students that willingly accept and learn new information and skills from being exposed to that information and those skills.

Recently it was pointed out how horrible it was that students were being suspended for being merely "disruptive." If the researchers taught college classes and every 50-minute period spent 5 minutes teaching and 45 trying to get 2-3 disruptive students to at least be quiet, they'd soon realize that the 35 contact hours or however many are required for their students' receiving course credit was reduced to 3.5 hours. The first midterm would be over before they finished going over the syllabus. No, those teachers would, in a completely non-racist manner of course, have security come and toss the disruptors out of their classroom, have guards posted to keep them out if they return, and petition for having the disruptors expelled.
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. "Disruptive" students are just a reflection of a tired system that doesn't serve them.
Edited on Fri Sep-24-10 05:29 PM by NYC_SKP
and teachers who are, most often reasonably, frustrated, overburdened, and unsupported in the ways they need to be.

Disruptive students are, through their behavior, saying "why am I here, what's the point?"

And it's a perfectly good question and few teachers can provide (or are allowed to, or trained to) provide convincing honest genuine answers.

(speaking as someone who worked exclusively with at-risk youth for eight years and long-term incarcerants for four).

Cheers.
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. I entirely agree.
They only act out when they're bored, confused, or not getting the attention they need (for the most part--there are sociopaths who take it to another level). Deal with those issues, and the behavior usually gets better.
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. There are alternative high schools. I teach in one.
We teach very differently, and if a student is that disruptive, consequences kick in. They know we're their last chance at a diploma, so they usually get it in gear and do what it takes. We very, very rarely expel a student, preferring to work with that student and any support network (social services, family, etc.) to help that teen (or adult, as many are by the time we get them) graduate.

There are ways to handle it, but the most effective ways we've found are small class sizes and solid relationships.
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #21
33. Props to you, that's also my background.
I could not and would not teach in a traditional high school setting: six 50-minute periods each day and two hundred students.

It ain't natural for students or teachers, yet that's what we see in most large high schools.

Good for you!

:toast:
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-10 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #33
38. Oh, I agree!
I had the opportunity last year to take an honors position at the local Catholic high school instead. I walked away from it and haven't looked back. I love my kids, and I love my job!

:hug:
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
34. rubber room is where they put the disruptive teachers. in real life.
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-10 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #34
39. Yup. We alternative ed. teachers are a bit different.
My mom, a public high school art teacher of 35 years, always said that teachers become like the students they teach. After going to the district-wide staff meeting at the beginning of the year, I'd have to agree. We of the alternative high school (we're a charter, but the public school district manages us, so we're employed through them) were at the back, came in late, and talked through much of the boring parts. I even had to bring my son, as my babysitting had fallen through. Heh.
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. So, in other words, send them my way.
I'm the writing coach in a great alternative high school. We have 171 students and a seven page waiting list. We take those "rubber room" students from the other high schools in the area, and we get them to master skills and graduate from high school. Now, we lose a few every quarter, kids who just don't get it yet or aren't ready to work hard enough yet, but we always have more waiting in the wings ready to take their places.

Those kids you dismiss are my students. I fight for them every day, and I help them fight against all the negative messages they hear, from moms to movies to music to message boards. If you don't want to waste your precious time tutoring the kids who really need it, send them my way. I'll help them do what it takes to get a good enough score on the ACT (our state's high school test with some added tests) and graduate from high school so they can have the chance at college and a better life.
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exboyfil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #19
31. I appreciate your service
and I am glad that you have a successful program. We also have an alternative High School, but I don't know much about it especially since my daughters are still in Junior High. I do know that disruptive children have basically ruined three of my older daughter's Junior High classes. She was also hurt by one of these individuals. It sounds like your program needs more funding - a waiting list is the prime example of you doing something right (and gets back to my point about parents wanting choices). We also have these types of programs in my daughter's school, and they expend a great deal of resources on them. Would your children fit more into the category of those trying but are challenged? Those are the kids who I would like to see the school focus more on. I just don't have anything to offer those children other than my tax dollars and my support for those programs. The kids I can't forgive are the constant cut ups, vandals, and physical/mental abusers (bullies). I guess if you look in every troubled child's home, you will find some reason they behave in this fashion. It still does not change the fact that they are stealing opportunity from others, costing us additional tax dollars in destroyed property, and hurting other children who have the misfortune of being locked in the same cage with them.

If a child wants to learn, I am ready to tutor that child but my methods are very old school. I am not an educator, and I would not pretend to be able to help those who don't want to learn by that method. I have focussed on bookish, nerdy kids like myself. With a little extra help, they can go far.
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-10 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #31
40. And with a lot of extra help, my students can go far, too.
We take all but the most violent. We take those who are trying but challenged, those who don't fit in because of socioeconomic or gender status, those who have been bullied and who are bullies, those who have serious drug problems, and those who just need a safe place to learn. We take almost all of those you'd kick out and say are a waste of your time and the school's resources, and we get them the help they need, the time they need, and the diploma they need.

We aren't funded enough, to be honest. We could easily be twice the size we are now, but then we run into bigger issues of staffing, safety for students and staff, and such. We like the size we are now, but we could use a better facility, more training, and two full-time counselors and administrators (we finally got an asst. principal this year, as he's going to take over for the principal who's retiring at the end of the year, and we flat-out love having an extra person to help out).

If you look, your daughter's school also expends a lot of resources on your so-called bookish, nerdy kids. I was one of those, so I understand what you're saying and what you're actually saying.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
27. K&R nt
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ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
30. "Real teaching": Do you think master teachers get enough opportunities to mentor new teachers?
How much observation of teachers by other teachers actually takes place? How often are beginning teachers teamed with master teachers for at least part of their day?

IMO that may be how "magical" teachers could be multiplied, and bad teachers weeded out early. But it seems to me most teachers must learn by trial and error from a zero base, to the detriment of at least their first few classes of students.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #30
36. regular teacher training includes practicum, teaching in a real classroom under the direction
of a master teacher. at least in our state. and before that, other less extensive real world experiences.

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ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-10 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #36
45. Might not part of the difference between effective and ineffective schools be the proportion of 1st-...
year teachers each year? When combined with astronomical school-to-school turnover of students living in poverty, high teacher tunover within schools in poor areas may be a big source of trouble. don't you think?

Or do yuou believe a newly-certified teacher is just as effective as an experienced master teacher, and would not benefit from substantial additional mentoring during the first couple of years?
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-10 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. the school deform model is to send tfa teachers with about 1 month's training to teach those
Edited on Sat Sep-25-10 12:47 PM by Hannah Bell
students.

they're firing experienced teachers in those schools: see nyc, no, chicago, etc.

that's the deform model.
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-10 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #30
42. Depending on the state, it's required for certification.
In our district, it's part of the evaluation process as well.
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ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-10 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. But does it happen after certification, frequently, without the threatening atmosphere
of evaluation?

And wouldn't it be better for children if new teachers team-taught daily with master teachers for at least part of their day?
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-26-10 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. Certification is a process.
You get a provisional at first, and then you have to keep renewing it or moving to the next level (depending on the state). So, you get certified at first, but in order to renew, you have to have been mentored so many hours, etc.

I think new teachers should team-teach. Heck, I think most teachers should. Our student/teacher ratios in most schools are way too high.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
32. This is my observation too
A couple days ago both I and my mom were roundly criticized for bagging on inner city public schools.

I sat in classrooms that looked JUST like the classroom in the video. With me the one white kid. :P

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9172370
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-10 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
35. Good post, and a topic that badly needs addressing. nt
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-10 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
41. I knew only one in my nearly 60 years of life!
She was a professor in grad school who previously taught in elementary schools. She was a committed socialist who had no personal life, using time out of the classroom to deliver groceries to her impoverished students' homes. She once dragged a mattress up several flights of stairs when she learned that one student had no bed. I don't think she ever spent a dollar on herself, yet she actually seemed happy.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-10 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
47. excellent. Too late to recommend, here's a kick.
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