Is France a better place to live than the USA?

[divideandconquer]

They're fighting over 60 year old retirement vs retirement at 62, seems quaint.

[hobbit709]

1. most any civilized country is better.

civilized defined as a country that cares for its citizens.

[area51]

24. +1 n/t

[kath]

35. + a brazillion.

The US is so far behind the rest of the developed world in so many ways that it's absolutely shameful.

[Vinca]

2. Apparently their version of Social Security allows for a much better quality of cat food, too.

[Joe Chi Minh]

71. Nice trivialisation of what for many Americans is a matter of life and death.

[zipplewrath]

3. Not conclusive but....

It's a very popular place for US citizens to retire. Truth is, UK citizens kinda like it too, although Spain is probably a bit more popular. It is probably a place that progressives would recognize and admire, even if it isn't perfect.

[xchrom]

4. Quaint? What an interesting choice of words. Nt

[MadBadger]

5. Not if you are a Muslim Woman who chooses (meaning isnt forced) to wear a burka.

[lunatica]

9. Maybe the British shouldn't have banned the practice of burning wives

at their husbands' funeral pyres in India. After all, maybe some wives chose that.

My point is it has to stop somewhere by someone taking a stand. The burka is a torture device and definitely a devise to oppress and suppress women as much as possible. Would you wear one unless the penalty is death? Binding women's feet in China or burning Indian wives alive when their husbands died or forcing women to hide behind formless clothing are customs devised by men and it's pretty plain to see what the intent is.

Any women in this world who have become equals have done so through laws passed by governments. Not through the kindness of their religious leaders or through evolution of barbaric customs.

[tigereye]

16. to be fair some women do choose to wear them without oppressive

requirement. I can understand the hijab a bit better than wearing the burqa, though. I have tried to see it from the perspective of women agreeing with the tenets of their faith... although the feminist in me always says, "wait a minute, why is it always women who have to cover up."


Unfortunately, the French govt looks hugely intolerant and culturally insensitive when they make those types of laws...

[lunatica]

22. Some women choose to have genital mutilation too

and some mothers have their daughters mutilated too. But that's because the social customs make it worse for those women who don't get mutilated.

Would anyone object to outlawing that custom just because some women agree to it?

[closeupready]

30. It's sad that you falsely equate choice of daily attire with murder and violent assault.

But this isn't the DU I signed up for anymore, so hey, what do I know.

[lunatica]

39. Honor killing of Muslim women is not murder and violent assault?

I'm sure you think all those customs are wonderful, while a DUer who objects disappoints your sensibilities. Not all DUers are as hard hearted as you are, which is a good thing.

[tigereye]

78. not a good argument- not sure covering parts of your body are quite the

same as genital mutilation.

[Codeine]

11. what, all six of them? nt

[TheIdiot]

51. You obviously haven't been there lately.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_France

[Codeine]

52. I meant women who wear them willingly.

I believe the majority have been mentally browbeaten into wearing what amounts to socially-accepted shackles.

[TheIdiot]

54. I see. Unfortunately, you're probably right.

But that doesn't make the misery any more bearable for the minority... my only point.

[Mass]

18. Which is about 2000 people in France, assuming none of those who wear it is forced.

LOL. Talk about a non issue.

[Johonny]

20. By your logic hey why not ban Abortion in the USA.

The vast majority of Americans don't use their right to an abortion. Most because they're a man. So hey why not get rid of it?

All people will be banned not just the 2000, even if it is a right they aren't bothering or planning to use.

[Mass]

21. I am not supporting the ban, just pointing that, for most French people including Muslim women

it is a non issue. There are more important issues to fight for.

It is actually amusing to see the issue is more popular in American media than in French media. (BTW, I assume you are fighting for the right of American women to walk bare breast in American cities. ).

[WinkyDink]

28. Because wearing clothing is so the same as giving birth.

[closeupready]

31. No, but wearing clothing IS the same as murder and amputation.

Or at least, someone implies it is upthread.

Can't have it both ways.

[TheIdiot]

53. it ABSOLUTELY is...

before anyone minimizes the issue, they should try being a Muslim woman for a day or two, not just in France, but anywhere!

[WinkyDink]

27. So sad.

[blondeatlast]

37. Or a Roma, nt

[KamaAina]

44. Or if you're Romany ("gypsy")

it might as well be Arizona. :scared:

[blondeatlast]

55. Indeed--but note how little attention is paid to the fact. Sad. nt

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

73. Or the Easter Bunny, or the Grassy Knoll Man, or the Loch Ness Monster.

[fifthoffive]

75. It's not a matter of choice

It's a matter of public safety. My understanding is that it is a "mask" law preventing the covering/disguising of your face in public places. It is not an anti-burka law. The muslims want to be excepted from following the law.

[mmonk]

6. Any country that cares about the welfare of its people is superior to the US

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

7. The French know how to fight!

"Where the government fears the people you have liberty."

It's true. Their protests shut business/government down. When we have a protest, it's on a Saturday, or permitted by the city and restricted to parks or streets that won't interfere with commerce.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

8. ^^ That's probably why the Conservatives demonize the French

They don't want an unruly populous. Conservatives like scared people who will fall in line. Demonize the French and you won't want to act like the French.

[Greyhound]

34. Bingo!

Nail, meet hammer.
:thumbsup:

[TheIdiot]

56. Hmmm... i like that. Problem is,

i can't remember the last time a politician gave a shit WHAT i thought!

[raccoon]

10. Any developed country with a national health plan is better, IMO. nt

[GoneOffShore]

12. It's where we'd like to retire.

They have crazies but not as crazy as US crazies.

[WinkyDink]

29. In my dreams I live in Alsace.

[onehandle]

13. Yes. nt

[Burma Jones]

14. I think that's up to you

Can you live well in France? sure. Can you live well in Mexico? sure. Can you live well in the USA? sure.

Are you guaranteed a good live anywhere? nope.

[davekriss]

15. Yes

I travel to Europe frequently for business. When I return, I often feel like I am leaving civilization for the wild wild west.

[Lorien]

58. +1. It's always a shock to the system, isn't it? nt

[tigereye]

17. they do have better food, better health care, a more engaged political

process, and tradition of serious protest.

[Mass]

19. It depends what your goals are.

If you want to become very rich very fast with a minimum of difficulties, the US are probably better.

If you want to live a good middle-class life with a social net that prevents you to fall too quickly, France is better.

If you are very poor, it is probably a toss-up.

[cowcommander]

23. No, learning french sucks

I made the mistake of taking one french class in high school. Never AGAIN. x(

[uppityperson]

43. Wow. You diss an entire country because you had trouble with a highschool class.

That is something.

[BlueCheese]

69. I assume there was a little tongue-in-cheek there.

[Lorien]

60. Funny, most people in France speak English fluently

and I never heard any of them bitch about having to learn our language.

[Romulox]

25. Yes. nt

[closeupready]

If you are a worker and a French national, yes, it's much better.

n/t

[WinkyDink]

26. I would think so. It's FRANCE! What is lacking there?!

I've been more than a few times, so I hope nobody here is posting idiotic insulting cliches.

[TheIdiot]

49. Not all insulting clichés...

are necessarily idiotic, monsieur.

[Lorien]

62. I absolutely love it there. The people are mostly quite friendly

the art and architecture, the food, the metro, all there is to do and see-I wish I had the money to move there!

[uppityperson]

32. It depends. 1 reason I've heard for early retirement is to pass the jobs on to the youth who can't

find work. Remember also that bureaucracy is a French word.

If you have a job, you are treated well overall, but finding a job can be difficult.

[COLGATE4]

33. Yes, unfortunately. It's a shame to have to say it but France

(and indeed almost any European country, not to mention some in Latin America) is infinitely preferable for an American to live. The national health system in these places is inexpensive (or free) and absolutely top-notch, politics does not consume 23.5 out of every 24 hour period and the pace of life is more relaxed, leading in turn to longer life expectancies for many people. In short the stress is much less, the services as good or better than here and people actually have more things to talk about than the next 2 year election cycle. Vive la France!

[flyarm]

36. I had a sweet young guy hairdresser in May when I was in Paris.

he was so excited because he was leaving the next week on his 5 week vacation..to London.paid in full by his employer!

He was going on the mandatory 5 week vacation that he was entitiled to Under French law..and to be paid for by his company. All he had to do was pick where he wanted to go, within a certain price range.

[Lorien]

65. Hard to imagine, isn't it?

They DO know how to have a life over there, and they know what's important. Hell, I haven't had any vacations in 10 years! I work seven days a week (when I can find work) to pay for my huge medical debt. x(

[blondeatlast]

38. As long as you aren't a Roma--oh, buut wait; they are being expelled, so it doesn't matter. nt

[NYC Liberal]

40. Not for me. You know, there are plenty of problems in France too.

These other countries (Canada, countries of Europe) aren't the magical utopias that some here think they are. It only seems that way since we actually have to live with the problems here every day.

[Mimosa]

41. Better health care and better cuisine. n/t

[merqz]

42. Not imo

Disclosure: I live in the United States. I have never lived (been a resident) in France, but I have spent a fair amount of time there.

Imo, there is a lot of "grass is always greener" type stuff going on in these discussions. Having spent plenty of time in France, I think I have a pretty good idea of how it would be to be a citizen of their country. One of my best friends is, and I live with him when I stay there, so I see what he deals with.

There are SO many factors to consider, though. And as far as the retirement thing, I can get full retirement at 55, so that's not even relevant to me. I prefer their health care system, for example (although my insurance is way better, that's just me). I love France, but I love the USA more. *if* I was considering another country to live, it would not be France.

[avaistheone1]

45. Of course it is.

It is the home of freedom fries.

[TheIdiot]

46. Way better...

especially if you're a thief.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3149962/Robbers-clean-up-with-vacuum.html

[Dappleganger]

47. Living in France means you'd have to live with the French...

and I would probably not enjoy that. We did love our French exchange students to death but we know enough about their outlook to not really want that. I'd prefer to go someplace far SOUTH, like Costa Rica or Ecuador.

[SoCalDem]

48. If you speak French, probably

:)

and are not Roma or Muslim

[TheIdiot]

59. 10-4! n/f

[fascisthunter]

50. in regard to retirement, yes

[Lorien]

57. Yes. According to the UN reports they beat us out in most categories. nt

[blondeatlast]

68. Including racism. did the UN comment on the racist scapegoating and deportation of the Roma? nt

[blondeatlast]

61. Racist ratfucking that rivals Arizona, sure--swell place to live if you are allowed to...

Roma Expulsions Challenge Europe's Benevolent Self-Image



http://www.rferl.org/content/Roma_Expulsions_Challenge_Europes_Benevolent_SelfImage_/2163231.html

[Obamanaut]

63. Perhaps for the French, but I'll stay here. One wonders, with immigrants

(both legal and not) continuing to arrive in the US, why they do this. It isn't the low prices at Starbucks.

[JI7]

64. if you prefer more free time but less material goods France might be better

[Lorien]

66. They have plenty of material goods; they get paid a fair wage

and they have Nationalized health care, affordable higher learning, and paid vacation. That frees up a lot of $$$ even with the extra taxes. I've seen less poverty in France than I have here in the USA.

[Catherina]

67. Less material goods? Surely you jest. Less junky stuff but more high quality goods n/

[Joe Chi Minh]

70. In case some of you haven't checked it out, here's the Google news page

on the demonstration.

http://news.google.co.uk/news/search?aq=f&pz=1&cf=all&ned=uk&hl=en&q=french+protest+march

They don't take prisoners!

[BlueCheese]

72. I've been to France twice...

Like any country, France has its attractions and its problems. Personally, I think I prefer living in the US.

I don't consider myself overly patriotic. I understand that our country has its problems, and hasn't always behaved nicely (especially during the Bush years). But sometimes it really grates to hear all the criticism. It's not as if the US doesn't have its redeeming qualities, and it's not like Europe hasn't, for example, engaged in a multi-century imperialistic colonization spree.

[Stevenmarc]

74. Well if you want to own a classic Citroen DS21 it's easier to find a mechanic

[Tesha]

76. Oui. (NT)

[lovuian]

77. yes

their people are healthier and happier

[mainer]

79. Lived in France for a few months. Lots of petty crime.

We never felt physically endangered, but every friend who came to visit from the US got pickpocketed or had other items stolen. Also, there's a lot of resentment that leads to keying of nice parked cars.

Finally, there's all the headaches about being PROPER. The French live and breathe etiquette, and if you make one false step -- e.g., don't preface everything with "pardon for disturbing you," you will be judged as sub-human forever.

[littlewolf]

80. besides rioting muslim youths .. burning cars etc ....