Am I the only person on the Internets who supports the proposed Immigration Bill?

[Nimrod2005]

I Know it will be subjected to many amendments, but I don't dislike it in its current form.

I hear Ed Schultz saying that the bill hurts Unions...etc. but I think the opposite, most of these people, who are already working, will end up working in Union Jobs...IMO.

WARNING: THIS IS NOT A THREAD ABOUT BIG EDDY, I am just using him/his POV as an example.

[dsa]

1. i don't know enough about it

but from what i've heard, it sounds ok to me. i don't know what all the hubbub's about.

[Nimrod2005]

2. Thank you - I thought it addressed all issues as best as possible....nt

[dsa]

3. you're not alone nimrod

now there's a sentence i never thought i'd say.

[Nimrod2005]

5. Lol, thanks and welcome to DU

[TahitiNut]

4. How does it solve anything? It's the same ol' shit as was done 20 years ago.

What happens when the NEXT 10 million "illegal aliens" arrive?? How about the NEXT 10 million??

There were only estimated to be about two million illegal aliens 20 years ago, iirc. Look at how well that worked.

:puke:

[Nimrod2005]

6. What needs to "solved" exactly? Can you explain?

[TahitiNut]

8. Get real.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/TahitiNut/386

[Nimrod2005]

12. I am of the opinion that once these people get papers, they will

either join a union, move on to higher paying legal jobs, or best of all, improving their lives by going to school, get certain training and realize their dreams....etc. Yes, a new batch of illegals will come in (big maybe because border security will be much tighter), but historically they have been absorbed by our labor markets, and on and on...IMHO, life in America today is NOT worst off BECAUSE we have had 12 million people come across the borders over the past 20 years.

[TahitiNut]

16. History shows otherwise. It didn't work that way 20 years ago, either.

:shrug: ... despite the same rosy projections from the Pollyanna crowd.

[Nimrod2005]

18. I am painting a rosy projection, I am saying some will make it big!!!

People who come here AND LIVE want to make it big, they don't want to come to the land opportunity to make $800 a month and live happily ever after.

[MonkeyFunk]

7. My understanding is that the border restrictions

will be heightened a lot in this new bill.

[gravity]

9. And what's your solution?

[TahitiNut]

14. Any solution must include a range of penalties for employers up to and including ...

... total confiscation of the business assets and hard prison time for the officers of that corporation. For the last 25 years, I've had to provide even potential employers with proof of my eligibility to work in the US, even when applying for a job. I can accept the occasional 'illegal' as an oversight ... but I cannot accept the idea that HUNDREDS of people without a legal right to be in the U.S. would be employed by the same company unless that company were willfully acting illegally and knowingly.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/TahitiNut/386

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gravity]

21. Isn't that just greed on your part though

When you outlaw immigrants from working in this country, you are denying them opportunity to make the best life for themselves too.

[TahitiNut]

24. I defy you to show where I advocated that.

The overtly dishonest characterization that I'd "outlaw immigrants from working in this country" is reprehensible.

"Illegal aliens" are NOT immigrants. "Guest workers" aren't even immigrants!!

[gravity]

27. You are still denying people the same opportunities you have

Illegal immigrants just want to make a better life for themselves like everyone else in the world. The problem is that not everyone can come in this country legally at the time, so they have to come here by other means.

[TahitiNut]

37. By the same 'logic' ...

... not everyone can have a million dollars legally, so they have to get it by other means. Not everyone can have a Porsche legally, so they have to get it by other means. Not everyone can live in your home legally, so they have to live there by other means.

Again, we're NOT talking about illegal "immigrants." We're talking about "illegal aliens" - people who are in this country in violation of the laws of this country whether or not they have any intention to stay or not and clearly without a demonstrated intention to be a law-abiding member of this nation.

I find it hard to imagine a reasonably rational mind that would compose the post you did ... so I won't even try. :shrug:

[tammywammy]

10. While I haven't read it

From what I've heard, I support it.

[BobRossi]

11. It is a job killer.

Designed to give America's best jobs to the lowest paid worker who will then send his paycheck offshore rather than buy American goods and services.

Sounds like it was drafted by Spence Abraham.

[Nimrod2005]

13. Gimme a break, a job killer?

[Fleshdancer]

15. "America's best jobs"? Really?

IMO, America's best jobs are the jobs that support a robust middle class and a lot of those jobs are being outsourced overseas. By giving these workers amnesty, then aren't they required to receive minimum wage and pay taxes on what they earn finally? Collecting taxes from 12 million people adds up real fast.

[BobRossi]

25. Yes, best jobs.

"While spouses and minor children of legal residents and citizens could still get green cards under the new system, other relatives would have to qualify under a point system that rewards advanced skills, education, English proficiency and experience in high-demand occupations."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070518/ap_on_go_co/immigration_congress_79;_ylt=AjKJdcy8b7nmH1ly_8YzKwME1vAI

[KharmaTrain]

17. Far From Perfect, Better Than Nothing

It recognizes the large number of undocummented workers in this country and attempts to treat them with some dignity. However it doesn't really address the problems that create the need for many of these people to leave their home countries (not just Mexico) and come here to work. Much of it is economic and the exploitation in their country that forces them to take the risks to go to a strange new land where they know many don't want them.

It also doesn't put much teeth into the employers who have profited from this cheap labor pool and will continue to curb laws or outsource as long as it means greater profits. Many of these corporations would dump their "illegal" problem on the community and instead of them assisting in providing health care and a decent wage for these workers (forbid them hiring union workers and really showing good faith). There needs to be real enforcement on those who break the law and hire illegals or have attempted to circumvent labor laws by hiring undocummented workers.

The Immigration issue, unfortunately, is wrapped up in political agendas from many right wing, racist and xenophobic groups that do little to solve this situation and only create greater hatred. It's time to put a human face on this situation.

[Duer 157099]

20. Have you read the bill? I highly doubt it.

So, essentially you're just like the Congress people who vote on bills that they never read.

Which, of course, brought us the Patriot Act and various other horrors.

Nice.

[Nimrod2005]

23. If you oppose the bill but have not yet read it, please refrain from

opining here ==== I have read enough of the bill or about the bill to form my opinion.

[Duer 157099]

26. Excuse me? Did you ask a question or not?

And I'm sorry, but I didn't see any qualifying criteria for responders in your post.

Besides which, you assume an awful lot about my position on this bill, don't you?

What I OPPOSE, and strongly, is people (in particular, members of Congress, but not only) who form opinions (and votes) based on very little actual data, which is what my post stated -- clearly, even.

[ConsAreLiars]

22. You and the Corporatists love it; immigrant groups hate it.

You may want to check out this interview on Democracy Now! http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/05/18/1429231

"Immigrant Rights Groups Condemn New Senate Proposal to Overhaul Nation's Immigration Laws"

[Lost-in-FL]

28. This bill is only good for the RICH in both sides of the fence...

No pun intended.

From the little I understand from it I don't seem to like it. Do you think that a worker who gets paid $1000 (and sends $500 to their native country, to his family) a month can afford to become a citizen under this new bill? The reason EVEN A REPUBLICAN agrees with it is because it only benefits the rich and it is their last attempt to get a "few votes" from the Latino community. The GOP is desperate.

I do not like the point system that is used. Again, this bill will only benefit the RICH "undocumented" worker. People hate illegal immigration because people is "breaking the law" but as long as that "criminal" :sarcasm: pays more than the others it makes it alright.

Also, their point system favors citizens from countries who only speak English. But my guess is that even if you don't speak the language, and you have money it's fine.

More border security?? Now that's funny. We have not being able to do anything about border security for years. Education is at its worse and this stupid war is draining our treasury... yeah right... "securing the border" :sarcasm: . Maybe they can use the "$5,000 fine" to pay for the construction.

At least someone is thinking about something, which is a start. I just HATE the hatred that subjects like this attract. You'll see lots of new members this week about this bill.

[UTUSN]

29. Most of us are falling into the -----GASP-- O'Loofah position: It's the only workable deal n/t

[Fleshdancer]

30. I don't know yet but I do think the US immigration process sucks

Most Americans don't realize what people have to go through to obtain legal immigrant status. This article points out many of the flaws that currently exist:

http://www.columbiabasinherald.com/articles/2007/05/11/editorials/edit01.txt

Some people immigrating from Mexico are poor and have little education. They are coming from a country where the government is often called corrupt, where officials want bribes to do anything for Mexican citizens.

Life in America is obviously appealing. Their children can become educated beyond what was offered their parents, they can earn more money and live a better lifestyle, and do so with a reasonable expectation of being treated fairly.

But the system for immigration is a quagmire of bureaucracy, filled with exasperating forms, confusing instructions, vague or nonexistent deadlines, hard-to-meet criteria and it is expensive. Despite the good intentions of immigration officials to make the process thorough and streamlined, it remains more difficult than working with the IRS during an audit.

Now for Mexican nationals specifically, here are some of the things needed to obtain a work visa: http://mexico.usembassy.gov/mexico/evisas_work.html

You should present:

- Copy of the I-129 petition and the original approved I-797 petition
- A BANAMEX receipt for the $1,150 pesos (adjusted according to exchange rate) application fee. There can be additional fees for individuals obtaining work visas.
- Mexican passport with at least six months validity (**Gloria side note: don't forget passports cost money too)
- Complete visa application form
- Supplementary application form if applicant is male between the ages of 16 and 45

Please remember that these visas have an additional issuance fee. You employer can tell you the exact fee, which must be paid in the Visa Pavilion during the interview. We accept pesos or dollars, and Visa, MasterCard, and Discover credit cards.


--------------------------------

My gripe is when people say "well they should just come here legally". The problem is that they can't afford to, not that they prefer to break the law.

[EFerrari]

31. It's a bad bill. We will regret it. n/t

[Lost-in-FL]

34. Very bad bill but it is a start...

At least we have both sides TALKING about immigration and a better possible way to do things.

[EFerrari]

35. I hope you're right. So many helpless people, so many lives

in the balance. Well, let's see how we do.

[AzDar]

32. What little bit I know of it, it seems to be another unmitigated disaster.

Full of 'solutions' that benefit only CorporateAmerica.
The final nail in the coffin is George W. Clusterfuck's unwavering support...you KNOW it's bad for America if Chimpolini is trying to shove it down our throats.

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. Well since they are saying it will destroy the republican party if it passes,

I think I might be supporting it now :evilgrin:

[Ilsa]

36. You might be one of the few citizens outside of congress

that supports it, from what I hear. Supposedly, no one is happy with it, and I don't know what to think.

[Dawgs]

38. Terrible bill. I can't believe the Democrats are thinking of voting for this piece of crap.

[unlawflcombatnt]

39. It makes 12 million Illegal immigrants legal - Immediately

I don't support it at all. I hope Big Eddie was opposing it.

It gives immediate amnesty to all 12-20 million illegal immigrants by giving them Z-visas, which allow them to stay here 8 years without any fines or penalties whatsoever. This immediately increases our legal labor force by that size as well.

Just what we need with stagnant real wages-- more workers to help drive down the price of labor.

[Nimrod2005]

40. They are already working silly, that's why they are here, they have been here

WORKING...They will start paying taxes, they will have a $5000.00 fine.

Big Eddy did oppose it.

What do you suggest we do with the 12 million people? and how do we do that?

BTW, I think there are 20 million or more.