Teaching the Holocaust Outlawed in Texas!

[McCamy Taylor]

Children are being taught to like Islam and hate Christianity, according to elected officials in Texas, who say they're hellbent on stopping it.
Snip
"If you can control or influence our education system, you can start taking over the minds of the young people."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/09/23/2010-09-23_texas_state_board_of_education_resolution_targets_lessons_it_claims_favor_islam_.html


All but two of the Republican members of the Texas State Board of Education voted to ban world history textbooks which present Islam in a positive light…and Christianity in a negative way.

http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/09/24/2492236/texas-ed-board-considers-resolution.html

This means that Texas school kids could graduate High School without ever learning that hordes of Christian soldiers swarmed across the Middle East during the Crusades. The 100,00 Muslims massacred during the Fall of Antioch---never happened. The 8000 Rhineland Jews killed by Crusaders who did not want to wait until they got to Jerusalem to start killing---just a fiction.

Our kids will no longer be allowed to hear about Christianity’ s bloody infighting. A million Cathar deaths in France---don’t be silly! From now on, in the state of Texas, the Spanish Inquisition will be a Monty Python joke. The tens of thousands of folks burned at the stake and the hundreds of thousands tortured for not being Catholic---ha ha! Very funny. Close to a million Waldensians did not die at the hands of their fellow Christians.

English protestants never enslaved Irish Catholics. Native Americans were never forcibly converted at the point of a sword. And, of course, six million Jewish people were never systematically murdered by the predominantly Catholic Germans during World War II. That’s because Jesus said “Love thy neighbor as thyself” and Christians have always followed that rule.

“Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity”
-The above not written by Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

[stray cat]

1. To keep the right and left happy we should outlaw history in schools

Since personal likes and dislikes seem to make some incapable of historical accuracy

[McCamy Taylor]

2. Social Studies are already outlawed. It's called "Coaches as teachers".

Notice that those who can not teach as always assigned to teach history and government. That's so we can continue to repeat the mistakes our parents made.

[dixiegrrrrl]

20. I think you helped me understand why we keep repeating history.

"Why don't we ever learn?" ....indeed.

[roxiejules]

175. One needs to read many books to learn history

don't rely on one source, seek out many opinions.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[izquierdista]

61. Better watch out

Some coach with a winning record could easily replace you. Race to the Top, ya know.

[brewens]

Mine was a football coach before I had him for history. He

was also our journalism teacher and one of the sharpest men I ever knew. He was also known to be the toughest history teacher. He was a workaholic and probably an alcoholic. His name was Ron Hayes and he was also the Idaho legislature correspondent for Spokane's Spokesman Review newspaper.
The year I graduated from high school our newspaper won the National Scholastic Achievement Award for the best high school newspaper in the country, for the 13th year in a row. He ran a college level journalism course in a high school. Better than most colleges actually.
Some coaches are great teachers.

[Bucky]

172. I'm a history teacher and I don't coach a sport. The teachers at our school who *do* coach...

...are all highly qualified professionals. There is no discernible difference in job performance, from what I've seen of my colleagues' performances or from what shows up in the standardized testing, in the teaching done by coaches and non-coaches. If you have something besides a fact-free screed to back up your opinions stated as facts, I'd like to see it.

[mrs_p]

178. way too general of a statement

best teacher i ever had was in history - that is where i learned critical thinking skills...

[CRK7376]

185. Careful now!

Some of us are coaches and cut no slack in the classroom. I coached Cross Country and Track and Field, with teams that have competed at the Region and State levels and somehow got my classes through AP US and AP European History. My teams knew that academics was first and if they blew off classes or assignments, they could expect to sit out the next race or event etc...So don't lump all coaches as bad teachers. My 16yo is suffering in his AP US and AP Environmental Science classes; I don't teach where son goes to school, his AP US teacher is the girls soccer coach, his AP Science teacher is his Golf Coach, so there are a few teachers that make their kids do the work and aren't lousy teachers....But there are also many coaches that are more interested in the up coming game than what's happening in their classroom.....

[pattmarty]

27. No, just outlaw fucking religion.

[demwing]

34. Why not just take the MONEY out of religion

and then the greedy fuckers will leave on their own accord? Get rid of the profits of so called "prophets." Cap the tax exempt status for churches that bring in more than $250,000 a year (an arbitrary number based on the Bush Tax Cut threshold we keep discussing - any suitable $ amount will do fine). Don't eliminate it, just cap it.

Outlawing religion is a ridiculous idea, completely contradictory to the constitution, with zero chance of ever happening. Also, I know that myself and many others are politically to the left in no small part due to our desire to protect our religious freedoms. If anyone were to try to end that they'd have a hell of a fight on their hands.

[demwing]

36. And, I should add, ENFORCE THE FIRST AMENDMENT

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

It was the VERY FIRST THING we added to the Constitution, obviously it was foremost on the minds of the founders.

If Texas could print their own damn books without effecting schools nationwide, and if Texas could guarantee that it's elementary and high school attendees never left the damn state for the rest of their lives, then I'd say fuck it! Let Texas do what the hell it wants.

But Texes cannot. This is an issue affecting the nation, and this insanity needs to be ended at the Federal level.

[pattmarty]

37. Ever hear of satire? I have ALWAYS been for taxing churches................

.......I thought my response would be seen as satire, but alas I'll have to keep on using the sarcasm "thingie" I guess.

[demwing]

40. Then I apologize

it looked too passionate to be real satire

[pattmarty]

42. Stray Cat's reply #1 was a satirical reply, AND I replied in a satirical.........

.........manner to that. A person would have to be a REAL fucking nitwit to make a SERIOUS statement like that.

[demwing]

48. I apologized without delay

And I agree - "A person would have to be a REAL fucking nitwit to make a SERIOUS statement like that."

Those were nearly my exact thoughts while responding to you. Obviously I was wrong about your motives, so I apologized.

BTW - I saw Stray Cat's satire immediately. Your's? Not so much...

[feslen]

184. because money and religion

has been sleeping with one another for centuries. I say we send the ignorant and zealot religious nuts to one side of the country, and let the rest of us live in peace.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

82. Equalization FAIL.

Again.

[LiberalLovinLug]

101. The left would be "happy"?

Can you give an example of someone or group deemed on the left that has called for altering history books towards their point of view?

...someone in the USA, not Stalin, or Mao Tse-Tung from a century ago

[gtar100]

109. How is the left trying to skew history? I don't see it.

I see the left pushing to be inclusive, not exclusive; willing to revise historical records only based on new, verifiable discoveries - not ideological objections.

Just because we say "right" and "left", it's a mistake to think of them as equal but opposite. These labels are misnomers.

[DireStrike]

120. "and the left"?

Please cite an example of leftist trying to revise school textbooks. I look forward to you never replying.

[ananda]

3. Some of these guys won't be back in Nov.

But, two Dems didn't vote. Where the fuck were they?

Also, it's a non-binding resolution and new textbooks won't be
printed till 2016.

Still, the message it sends is pretty disturbing.

[DrDan]

7. 3 did not vote

2 were absent and 1 walked out

[davidhilton]

151. If Texans continue to vote these creationist/nut-jobs into office,

then they will have to live with the consequences.
You would think public school criteria would be set by the Feds not the States.

[txlibdem]

169. Not just Texas, many other states get their textbooks from Texas

Texas buys so many textbooks that the companies that publish them pretty much kowtow to Texas' whims on the content. I thought I read that several other states buy their textbooks from Texas or go in with it on purchases. I have to find that link. Anyone care to help a tired ole fella out? But that's why TX has the clout that it does. In terms of population we are nowhere near the biggest so I have no idea why we would be running the textbook show.

[lolly]

170. That's what I've heard

And even though they're not the biggest state, they apparently have a uniform textbook policy across the state, so if the textbook publishers can get Texas to adopt their book, they make a fortune.

Most other states (including CA, which is probably the biggest market) have a selection of books--I think districts have more leeway in choosing their own. So a publisher has to sell to dozens of individual districts instead of making one big sale.

So I've heard they do tend to kowtow to whatever Texas wants.

[txlibdem]

179. That allows a state like Texas to subvert the system to the detriment of children

That is what I really hate about it all. I hadn't even heard of the issue before I moved here to Texas 6 years ago but I recently learned that it's only 10 right wingers on a committee here in TX -- they have far too much power and their views are far too extreme for America, they do NOT represent the mainstream.

I've taken some heat from others in the ED forum for my view that we desperately need a single national standard for educational standards. I see it as vital for our survival as a major player in the western world. It truly perplexes me that anyone could possibly think that would be a bad idea.

There are some odd ideas out in the education community.

[MoonRiver]

4. Welcome to Afghanistan,

Texas style.

[crim son]

5. Holy Crap

am I ever glad I don't live in Texas. My thoughts are with those of you who love the state and are willing to put up with/fight the endless bullshit that seems to be part of living there.

[ixion]

8. I lived there (for a job) for two years...

it was horrible, and I really couldn't wait to get the Hell out of Texasistan.

[whathehell]

33. In what area of Texas did you live?...What I can't understand is why and how Texas school book

standards have become -- from what I hear -- the "model" from which most texts in the US are based...THAT scares me!

[ixion]

155. I was in Austin

the most progressive city in Texas, which it is. But overall, it's still very much Texas.

[whathehell]

162. Yeah..

I used to wonder about that...Now I guess I know.

[Cirque du So-What]

16. If only it were so simple as not living in the state

Things would be so much easier if we could just point & laugh from afar, but the Texas State Board of Education holds sway over public-school textbooks that are used all over the country. That's where they're all printed, yunno, so politics are injected directly into textbooks in a blatant attempt to warp susceptible young minds.

I'm sorry that the shenanigans of yahoos in less-enlighened locales intrudes upon your liberal paradise, but this affects the education of children all over the nation.

[crim son]

57. I'm sorry you are angry enough about this to attack me.

Maine's progressives have taken some hits in the last several years and I think we're going to get royally screwed come November - research Maine's rethug candidate, LePage - and so I empathize with you. Having said that, I'd sooner move back to Canada than to Texas, especially while I have kids. If that pisses you off, so be it.

[Cirque du So-What]

62. Zut alors, pauvre petite!

You see fit to condemn an entire state - one that teeters on the edge between red & blue - as casually as rattling off items on a grocery list - and yet YOU're aggrieved? I grow weary of hearing this all-too-familiar refrain: 'what's the matter with Texas/the south/whereverthefuckever?' Nothing is accomplished by slamming all the residents of a particular state or region of the country. If I take issue with your smug faux pity for the people of Texas & it pisses YOU off, so be THAT!

[RobertBlue]

158. "Zut alors, pauvre petite!" ?

Why are you assuming that all Canadians are speaking French?

"Canada is officially a bilingual country but, with nearly 60% of the population speaking English as their mother-tongue, and only 24% speaking French as their first language, some people are questioning whether Canada is truly a bilingual nation or rather, a bilingual nation on paper only."

http://www3.telus.net/linguisticsissues/french.html

I thought that you were weary of hasty generalization?

[Cirque du So-What]

166. It's MY heritage, you son of a silly person!

and not you - nor any other English types - can tell me when I can or cannot revert to my mother tongue!

[txlibdem]

64. Excuse me but... You can live in Canada - but you CHOOSE to live here? Why???

If I could get out of the US right now I'd do it in an instant.

The only thing we have that Canada doesn't do better is warm weather.

Please feel free to flame away. I am a Liberal, Progressive Democrat living in Texas (6 years now and will be here at least until I am no longer underwater on mortgage) so you can imagine my misery.

[seabeyond]

65. ya well...

i thought i was gonna be buried here. hubby a texan and they NEVER leave. but he assures me, as soon as youngest graduates, colorado looks to be the state. though i still have my eye on oregon.

[ZombieHorde]

88. My wife and I are seriously considering moving back to Oregon when we are done with school. nt

[seabeyond]

91. i love oregon

hubby doesnt like the rain, so i figure if i get him on the other side of the mountain, in the high desert he will be fine. he just wants to fish, lol

i plan on a trip out there next year and up the coast into washington.

we have been all over colorado. and new mexico for that matter.

[ZombieHorde]

96. Nice. We may end up running into each other and not even know it. nt

[seabeyond]

98. ha ha ha. i donna know. the clue will be your arms extened out and that

glass eyed look. i would know you anywhere

[ZombieHorde]

100. Lol, I guess that is true. nt

[krabigirl]

83. Some people have jobs they can't leave, etc.

[Irishonly]

75. That was my first thought

It's wrong and one can only hope states will not buy these new text books.

[seabeyond]

18. it is a bullshit article with a bullshit headline to outrage.... nt

[crim son]

53. I did read the article.

The concern is about Islam vs Christianity in textbooks, so it is a bullshit headline. I don't think the article itself isn't worth reading.

[seabeyond]

55. for people to read and be informed is good. for hyperbole to be propagated

as a fact is wrong and helps no one.

i have kids in the system. they tell me what they talk about in classes. i see teachers not allowing personal political beliefs and leanings not interfere in the kids education. create and insist on balance and respect

and it pisses me off all over the place people taking this away from the teachers. i have watched the teachers and adm closely over the last 13 yrs, with kids education. i am so fuckin impressed. they should get a pat, ... not a bunch of hyperbole.

[crim son]

58. Agreed, you have a right to be angry.

Hyperbole is taking this country down the shithole, and the hyperbole here on DU is often distressing. I don't believe I'm indulging in it at the moment, however so you might save your anger for somebody who has earned it.

[seabeyond]

59. i am not directing it at you. but i was furthering what we were talking about.

i suppose i thought i was talking about it with someone that actually felt a little like i was feeling.

[ixion]

6. Steve Martin once did a comedy skit about parents teaching their children to talk wrong

Ending with the child asking (on the first day of Kindergarten): "May I go mow-mow to the Banana Patch?"

He was being funny, of course, but the skit's essence applies here. All they're doing by teaching BS spin to children as 'history' is making stupid and ignorant children.

Of course, that IS the goal.

[TheMadMonk]

9. And you still want to save America?

It might just barely be possible to REBUILD America in its own image one day.

However, there is NOTHING left of what was never much more than a myth to begin with, to save.

[geckosfeet]

13. Well you know what, you are right. Let the building begin.

[whathehell]

30. And being from Australia, you would know this..How??

[RobertBlue]

156. How ?

People outside the U.S are better informed about what's really going on over here than the average American. I have access to BBC News and Canadian TV networks like CBC and there's a huge difference between their free press and our no so "free" press. It's a little like learning from books not censored by the Texas State Board of Education for example.

[whathehell]

164. I have the same access

and I live in the States.

I've met Europeans who have the most ignorant, skewered ideas of "America"...because most have never been here (more Americans have been to Europe than the other way around)and they only know what they watch on TV!

Comparing the access Americans have to information to the Texas Board of Education -- whose latest agenda is being heavily contested by the way -- is absurd.

[Violet_Crumble]

177. I've met Americans in Europe...

Quite a few of them were ignorant cretins who weren't gaining any great knowledge of anything out of their 10 day cruise on the Rhine. I'm not sure why you seem to think that being a tourist qualifies anyone to have a better idea of what a place is like than someone who hasn't done the tourist thing but is well-read. Apart from that, how do you know whether the person you initially responded to has ever been to the US or not?

[whathehell]

180. Re-read the post, Viotet_Crumble..

I never asked and he never said whether he had been to America or not...If he had been, I imagine he would have said so.

No matter though, I see some others struggling to his defense.

[whathehell]

181. Never been to America either, huh?

:rofl:

I've met Aussies in America AND Europe who were rude and ignorant as well....Sorry Violet.

..and being "well-read" means more than just reading those opinions you've already formed an opinion about.

[RandomThoughts]

10. many if not most, of the US soldiers that fought with the allies

were also Christians. Sounds like mostly fear, creating downward spirals of control. Blaming atrocities on a religion, misunderstands much. It is people using a concept, then a religion as an excuse.


Side note, if that really was important, the simple to understand concepts I have posted here, would be on the news.

It is not hard to explain how people use religion to defend bias sometimes, and that is the problem, because once they are sure they have divine right, they don't think and feel about what they are doing.

[olegramps]

31. When the pope authorized the slaughter of thousands for witchcraft, I lay the blame on religion.

Perhaps you should take out time to read the Witch's Hammer written by the pope's two appointees to head the persecution of witches. It was,thanks to the invention of printing presses,translated into every European language and led to the slaughter of an estimated 300,000 to 1,000,000 women, men and even children. The crusade was taken up by the Protestants with Luther calling for the death of every person accused of witchcraft. Both Catholics and Protestants share the blame for this atrocity and I suspect that that is the reason that it is not included in world history studies. It's affect on the sexual mentality of Western Civilization was devastating in tainting human sexuality with an element of uncleanness that continues to plague today's society. It raged from the late 15th century to the 18th and was only finally overcome by the Enlightenment which produced the founders of our Republic.

[whathehell]

68. And who do you lay blame on for the hundreds of thousands of deaths "authorized"

by the Roman Emperors, for instance...Paganism?

Wars of imperialism and aggresion never needed "authorization" from any religion -- Greed and desire for "conquest" did the job just fine.

[donquijoterocket]

69. ah

The good old Maleus Maleficarum. I'm surprised the Texas BoE doesn't want that taught it's got how to lessons on torture and everything the modern wingnut,excepting possibly Chrissy from Delaware, could want.
Texass,it's a whole other country and one to avoid if at all possible.The one thing that would positively thwart the regressives on that board those same regressives have hindered the creation of and that's good, well-educated, well-informed teachers who can teach beyond or without a text.Conservatives have known this for a while I think that knowledge underlies their hostility towards the profession regardless of the reasons they publicly give.

[RandomThoughts]

115. I would say it is the interpreting of inspired thought by bias.

And using that interpretation for self gain, then claiming divine right so to not think about it.

I understand your concept, and we probably agree on many things, there can be issues with organized regions, just like with every other group and person.

There are even some that would blame an entire religion for some actions of some in a religion, like what happened in the persecutions you mention.

[RaleighNCDUer]

133. You got it bass ackwards, again.

The re-writing of history is meant to show Christianity only in a good light - Christian, good; other, bad. The poster was simply pointing out that a lot of bad fucking shit was done by Christians, as well, not blaming Christianity but not absolving it either.

Are you not an English as a first language speaker - your grammar gets really weird, most the time. "Side note, if that really was important, the simple to understand concepts I have posted here, would be on the news." You'll pardon me for saying it, but that sentence makes no fucking sense whatsoever.

[NNN0LHI]

11. I was in school during Vietnam

Wonder what they teach about that currently?

Anyone know?

Don

[McCamy Taylor]

127. I was in school in Vietnam. They taught us the US never started a war.

:rofl:

[madrchsod]

12. what about the Christians the crusaders murdered?

[McCamy Taylor]

14. The new books will describe them as religious pilgrims--tourists murdered by terrorists.

[seabeyond]

35. nothing like whipping up the frenzy. it would be humorous ignoring reality

to paint an outrageous outcome, except it is this type of shit in extremism that is fucking with our schools to such an extent on both sides that are truly fuckin up our kids education. this is what concerns me more about our kids learning, than anything texas is going to do with books.

[seabeyond]

15. well, lets be outraged on what COULD happen as if we are telling a story.

whatever this board is doing that i hear about, is not what i am seeing in the school and does not seem to have anything to do with what my children are learning.

or

people outside of texas can draw conclusion, not listen and be outraged.

[McCamy Taylor]

17. I have lived inside Texas all my life, and I am outraged.

I wonder why everyone assumes that criticism of Texas can only come from out of state. The people I know who are most alarmed about what goes on here are the ones who live here.

[seabeyond]

21. do you have kids not being taught the holocaust in the schools?

my son has been reading history books since young. a huge interest. he is also a talker and often discusses me what conversations are in class. a free flowing debate/discussion often happens in class discussing all this and more. they are not being deprived. and the teachers are not one sided teaching, or refusing to touch on certain subjects

the only time i heard a teacher flatly refuse to discuss something a child brought up was 8th grade science. the kid said didnt believe in evolution, started talking creationism. the teacher waved comments aside and said, believe what you want, that isnt what we teach in this class.

my kids have been the huge minority in classes, and there has been no means to shut them down, dismiss them, or ridicule them.

[seabeyond]

22. last year in human geography son said they went into detail on the different faiths

islam, middle east, the situation with jews and palestine.... i can remember one of the things son says is the teacher insisted on fair and balanced and did not allow the muslim religion to be presented as bad.

[McCamy Taylor]

24. Precisely why these folks in Texas are hopping mad. How dare a teacher

teach that all faiths have validity? Doesn't that commie aetheist know that all Muslims are terrorists?

[seabeyond]

26. so what? i am seeing the teachers ignore what SOME of the parents are demanding.

i am seeing the administration support the teachers. it is all over the country, not just texas. having to send out a letter to ok certain classes because of the outrage, and still the teachers teach.

be mad. protest. i keep my ears open to what is going on in the schools. if i see this interfer with my kids education, you can damn well bet i and many parents will be calling bullshit.

it. isnt. happening.

this article saying it COULD... is crap. pump the outrage that kids in texas are not learning with a fuckin.... it COULD prevent learning about the holocaust. well, it ISNT preventing kids learning the holocaust.

all i see is this group talking about doing this and that, the outside world being outrage and none of this effecting my kids education, as people NOT in the know tell me how fuckin stupid my kids are.

[TBF]

29. It is alarming -

I am not a native Texan, we moved here for my husband's job a few years ago. The funny thing is that I like my neighbors - have met a lot of really nice folks here. I don't discuss partisan politics of course. Texas is a really big state, with several cities in the top 10 in population (Houston, Dallas & San Antonio - with Austin & Ft. Worth in the top 25). Quite a few liberals live here too even if the state tilts red in the elections.

[seabeyond]

32. ha.... you are

in liberal houston.... lol. come to my world.

i have a brother and niece in houston. here the hiway system is from hell.

do you have kids in the educational system? do you see them being deprived in their education?

[TBF]

39. My daughter is in 2nd grade -

I'm annoyed that they cut her art education this year. Otherwise we are in an exemplary district and she is learning all kinds of things. To be honest I grew up in a very rural area in the midwest, with about 10 kids in my class yearly until we were bussed to high school. Our little school had very few resources so I am pretty much in awe of the huge schools I see in the suburbs here. I love going to her library for the annual book sale. We didn't even have a library in our school, just the bookmobile coming every couple weeks & some shelves in each of the classrooms that the teachers probably funded themselves.

I don't like the current push towards privatization that I'm seeing nationally with Arne Duncan at the helm, but I can honestly say that locally we are still in ok shape here in Pearland.

On a side note, re Holocaust education and other historical issues, I'm sure there are many things we'll have to teach her ourselves. They're not going to teach Sophie Scholl, Malcolm X, Rosa Luxemburg, Marx, or Che ... although I have noticed worksheets about MLK, Rosa Parks, and Anne Frank. So we will supplement as needed. Most history is from the male perspective as well, so female perspective is another thing we'll work in as we talk to her daily.

[seabeyond]

41. even in our day, we werent taught all. i have found kids today are taught much more, much sooner

than i was.

academics is a priority in our has. kids huge readers. they have shelves and shelves of books. lots of historicals. i have three subscriptions of magazines coming to house and they sit on dining room table for kids to read, at anytime. when i see an article i am interested in, i will tell a particular kid to read, then at dinner discuss it, tell me what it says, and how he sees it.

i have talked to the adm and teachers because my children are the only, or one of the very few that has opposing opinion to the masses and i have always found the schools receptive, insisting on respect, regardless of opinion.

i listen to kids talking about discussions in class. all the way from politics, to events, to religion, to social behavior.

i dont have anything to bitch about

paticipate in kids education, and your child will benefit.

[SalmonChantedEvening]

19. Dooming ourselves to repetition.

Texas is refusing to learn history, let alone learn from it.

[McCamy Taylor]

23. Agree. State religions can be dangerous. They are used to whip

people into a frenzy. A lot of right wingers want to tear down the divide between Church and State in this country precisely because they want to be able to whip people into a frenzy. It is much easier to oppress and kill because you are told that God wants you to do so. Lots of people will balk if told Exxon or Citibank wants them to kill for them.

[SalmonChantedEvening]

79. While demanding we outlaw Sharia.

I always ask who's version of the Bible we'd follow if we were to live by Biblical Law. Always pisses 'em off. ;)

[roxiejules]

174. Worst genocides of 20th century:

Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50) 49-78,000,00 - Communist/Atheist

Jozef Stalin (USSR, 1932-39) 23,000,000 (the purges plus Ukraine's famine) - Marxist/Atheist

Adolf Hitler (Germany, 1939-1945) 12,000,000 (concentration camps and civilians WWII) - Nazi/anti-Christian

[Kolesar]

25. Pope Benedict is trying to rewrite history so that atheists caused the Holocaust

His visit to Scotland and England was a horror

[whathehell]

28. The nazis were "predominantly Catholic Germans"?...

Germany, I believe, is roughly half Catholic, half Protestant, or so says my spouse who is of 100% German ancestry.

Do you have a link for this assertion?

[The Magistrate]

38. Depends On When And Where, Sir

Catholicism is predominant in the south, Lutheranism in the north.

The N.S.D.A.P. originated in Bavaria, part of the Catholic south.

Once the party reached a national footing, regional qualities were submerged.

[whathehell]

66. Then the OP is wrong in claiming that nazis were "mostly catholic"

It may have started in Bavaria, but such distinctions were not in play when, as you say, "it reached a national footing".

For anyone who missed it, Germany is NOT a predominately "Catholic" country. It's split about evenly between Lutheran protestants and Catholics.

[The Magistrate]

73. The Statement In The O.P.Jews Were Killed By 'Mostly Catholic Germans' Is Untrue, Sir

For that matter, your spouse is a bit off: about a third of Germans were Catholic, and almost all the rest Lutheran. The figures probably have not shifted much since.

[A Physicist]

157. Religion in Germany

According to Wikipedia (there is a slight conflict between two articles but the take away is the same):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Germany

Religion (Main article: Religion in Germany)

Religion Percent
No Religion   34.1%
Roman Catholicism   30.0%
Protestantism   29.9%
Islam   4.0%
Orthodox Christianity   1.6%
Judaism   0.2%
Buddhism   0.2%

I would assume the “No Religion” group was not as large at the time of WWII.

The online article “Religion in Germany” contains religious history info with this passage validating your claim:

“Prior to World War II, about two-thirds of the German population was Protestant and the remainder Roman Catholic. Bavaria was a Roman Catholic stronghold. Roman Catholics were also well represented in the populations of Baden-Württemberg, the Saarland, and in much of the Rhineland. Elsewhere in Germany, especially in the north and northeast, Protestants were in the majority.”

http://www.germanculture.com.ua/library/facts/bl_religion.htm

[The Magistrate]

171. Thank You, Sir

It surprises me the proportions have changed so much, but on reflection, the reunification with East Germany, where irreligion was state policy and social norm, probably cut into the Protestant numbers considerably.

Being something of an antiquarian, the past is someimes more familiar to me than the present....

[The Magistrate]

74. The Statement In The O.P.Jews Were Killed By 'Mostly Catholic Germans' Is Untrue, Sir

For that matter, your spouse is a bit off: about a third of Germans were Catholic, and almost all the rest Lutheran. The figures probably have not shifted much since.

[whathehell]

87. I appreciate your clarifying that, Sir.

[redirish28]

44. My Wife explained to me just why this is so dangerous for the U.S. as a whole

Most of the texts books for the nations schools is in fact published in TEXAS... What the school board in Texas decides is going to be taught will basically be the format the Books will be written.


The books are then passed on to the rest of the country... If you or you are lucky enough to have a wise teacher they will go over what is missed and hopefully give the child a very well-rounded view on history with all the Glories the U.S. has to offer and the moments where our Shine and Thoughts and actions did not make us so great.


If you are lucky enough to see a text book from let's say the 1930s and one from the 1970s or 1990s and see just how different it is and how much knowledge is being Funneled out... First because there is only so much room in the books and so many calender days and now it is all this.


YET the schools today are finding Music, Art, and in some cases Geography, Literature, Gym are all being cut for various reasons...all of which could be easily fixed if we really wanted to fix it and not fund too Wars that never should have been started in the first place.

[Towlie]

45. "Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past."

I'm amazed that nobody posted that already. Maybe it sounds corny but it fits this situation perfectly.

[MadHound]

46. I don't know about Texas specifically,

But I do know that most states greatly encourage the use of primary documents in teaching history. This offers a convenient and handy way to bypass the Texas School Board bullshit.

[Ichingcarpenter]

47. I'm glad my son who was born in Austin no longer lives in the States

My Niece, who just graduated Summa Cum Laude in Austin
now will work in South America, being fluent in both Spanish and Portuguese.

Texas is losing the youngest and brightest. I loved Austin, but having going back
the traffic jams were unbearable, my brother who still makes it his home told me
how even Austin, lost it focus over the years.

My other brother was born in Texas he no longer lives there.
Just to make it clear, I knew Jim Hightower, Molly" Ivins and Anne Richards personally.

You Texan, that are still there, fighting the good fight, BLESS YOU,
But the battle with stupidity, money, power and ignorance is one that
really is international. I'm just a son of New Mexico

I'm amazed how far the Great State of Texas
has fallen in intellectual consciousness


This OP story really upsets me.

[seabeyond]

52. Great State of Texas has fallen in intellectual consciousness

it hasnt. this is a small group with a loud voice not indicative of the actual education that the children are receiving, leaving people to make comments like yours because of headlines like TEXAS STUDENTS DONT LEARN ABOUT HOLOCAUST.... which is bullshit.

[Ichingcarpenter]

67. So how is your Amarillo School board doing?

Never thought a lot about that area but it seems

The High Planes of TEXAS might stills VOTE REPUBLICAN.

[seabeyond]

76. from what i understand we tie a district in alabama for highest red in the nation.

i know the pres of aisd education board. she is liberal, voted obama (one of the only ones, teasing, in this area), and very progressive in thinking. but no... i have not heard that we have a christian coalition on our board. the other person i know that at least was, may still be on the board is a woman named carlisle. one of the few republicans i campaigned for running as state rep. she lost but she was head of planned parenthood. our mayor, debra mccart was married to my hubby partner. she would be a democrat if a democrat could win in this area and very progressive in her style.

[Ichingcarpenter]

78. How is the FRACK natural gas drilling tracks going there?

I saw pictures.....

I know it brings in money but at what cost?

[seabeyond]

80. there was an explosion in bushland (10 min from ama) in '09.

i dont know anything about it. my hubby would. this is more his interest.

[AC_Mem]

49. How can we, as parents

Stop this from spreading to our school systems outside of Texas? Does anyone have any suggestions as to who we could contact or if there is a petition that can be signed?

This is beyond insane. They are literally wanting to re-write history and pass it on to future generations! How is this even legal?

[GTurck]

50. Don't you know...

that non-fundamentalists are not Christian?
My own father, raised a S. B., asked me if my Catholic faith believed in Christ. So they will probably teach all the pre-protestant stuff and leave out the parts that protestants did like the killings of Catholics, Jews, Quakers in Tudor England and the witch hunts common in Germany and the low Countries. People never seem to look in the mirror when they wish to condemn. So I will do that about Catholicism: we had the Inquisition and Savonarola and way too many omissions and commissions by clerics in North America. I do not excuse that but instead want to shine a bright light on such evils; teaching about them is a way to strengthen what is really Christian virtue; i.e. the many times that real mercy, understanding and compassion was exemplified.
I live in Texas and have been fighting against the SBOE almost from the moment I arrived 10+ years ago. I have many many friends and colleagues doing the same and the current board is about to be voted out of existence in a few weeks. We have real educators going there now.

[seabeyond]

54. sons 5th grade history on culture... teachers prediscussion comment. catholics are christians

have i made that clear. let me repeat.... catholics are christians.

i am from calif. when i moved to texas i started interacting with southern baptists. all of it was foreign and i learned a lot. to hear so many say catholics are not christians, are heathens is truly amazing. the teacher, not a catholic, understands the community and what is taught to the children thru religion. my son wa amused that she began the conversation in that manner

she was not "preaching" religion in class. this was a history course that talked about world culture and religions are a part of it.

[lolly]

70. Tudor England

Took a hiatus from killing Catholics to kill Protestants.

"Bloody Mary" was a Tudor and Catholic. She's the one who purged Protestants--had about 300 executed.

[whathehell]

89. Well, I'm sure you've heard the saying "History is written by the winners".

Bloody Mary killed protestants and tried to reinstate Catholicism. She lost.

"Good Queen Bess" killed Catholics to keep England protestant. She won.

[lolly]

153. For that matter, their father killed quite a few Protestants

Before he needed a divorce and founded his own church, Old Henry VIII was actually named a "Defender of the Faith" by the Pope.

Even after he founded the Church of England, he kept on executing those Protestants who were the wrong type of Protestant.

The ones who came back and killed Charles I . . . and so it goes.

[whathehell]

159. Quite right...

Not to mention his wives.

A thorougly disagreeable man.

[GTurck]

163. The other two Tudors...

were Henry VIII, who started the mess, and Elizabeth I, who executed many Catholics including her cousin Mary of Scotland. But that is beside the point. Both sides behaved horribly and it was all over the definition of who truly had a right to call themselves "Christian".

[penndragon69]

51. Texas two step.

All this comes from the state that wants to ban the teaching of evolutionary science
and replace it with creation science in all textbooks in America ( since texas controls the nations
educational book production).
Let texas go back to being part of Mexico...we don't need them anyway.

[seabeyond]

56. the WHOLE fuckin state wants to ban evolutionary science? PROVE it

a small group yells. they do not teach creationism in school. they teach evolution.

[Igel]

102. Read the revised TAKS.

That's all that needs to be said. They, and not what people say they say, are the curriculum.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

60. “Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:

“Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things: One is that God loves you and you’re going to burn in hell. The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love.” - Butch Hancock

[seabeyond]

63. that is funny.... nt

[glinda]

71. Dumb them down and control them is their motto.

[seabeyond]

77. but my kids get an excellent education, way beyond what we did in our days and

anything but dumb down. now what?

[Guilded Lilly]

72. Man hates and kills, period.

It doesn't matter whose name you do it under/for/in honor of...man creates the atrocitites and hate. Man created/wrote/fictionalized/reported/promoted all *labelized* religion.

Nothing about that will sadly, ever change. It gives mankind good reason to butcher and foul the earth with hatred and war instead of faith and peace.

What must change is education. Tell ALL the stories, tell all the histories openly so that the rest of mankind may SOMEDAY, if they can ever use an iota more of their brain, be able to live with less hate and fear.

Burning and banning books due to any one belief system adds to abject stupidiy.

The real reason behind this shallow movement has nothing to do with education or genuine faith in anything, it has to do with hideous control in the name of hate and fear and intolerance.

"If you can control or influence our education system, you can start taking over the minds of the young people."
This is their motto, black and white, out of their own mouths..

[Hepburn]

81. WTF????

:wow:

[DevonRex]

84. Shouldn't teachers' unions be raising hell about this? nt

[Initech]

85. I guess this answers the question "Is our children learning?

[defendandprotect]

86. Keep 'em stupid seems to be a Texas motto .... ????

better to control and enslave their citizens, I guess -- ???

Who ever said that religion was good for mental health?

[seabeyond]

93. people are sounding pretty stupid on this thread buying the headline which is bullshit

but what the fuck

as long as those outside of texas can call the children here working their ass off to get educated.... stupid.

[LWolf]

90. "Control the minds of the young people."

This is exactly why we need teachers with tenure. While we have to comply with harmful legislative mandates, we can resist and reduce the amount of harm caused.

At least, we can when our jobs are protected by tenure.

Reminder to those readying their attacks: Teacher tenure does not prevent the firing of incompetent or unprofessional teachers.

[tammywammy]

92. It's a non-binding resolution that has no effect on future history books recommended by the Board

[seabeyond]

94. nonbinding, talking 2016 and the title is bullshit. thank you. wtf, better to call our kids stupid

not that anyone listens....

[tammywammy]

95. Well us we're from Texas, we're just too stupid to realize how stupid we apparently are

It's easier to trash a state that's moving blue than, you know, actually do something. Easier to call us stupid than actually read the damn article. We're the stupid ones, but the Board is set to change with the Nov election when us stupid Texas voters head to the polls.

[seabeyond]

99. "Easier to call us stupid than actually read the damn article." yup

thanks tammy for a little bet of you profound.... stupid.

nap time

[seabeyond]

97. those bashing our texas kids as stupid, we rank 24 for best educated. 26 less educated

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/edu_bes_edu_ind-education-best-educated-index

Showing latest available data. Rank States Amount
# 1 Vermont: 17.58
# 2 Connecticut: 15.88
# 3 Massachusetts: 14.48
# 4 New Jersey: 12.55
# 5 Maine: 9.33
# 6 Minnesota: 8.97
# 7 Virginia: 8.47
# 8 Wisconsin: 8.45
# 9 Montana: 8.3
# 10 New York: 7.53
# 11 Pennsylvania: 6.76
# 12 Nebraska: 6.55
# 13 Kansas: 4.79
# 14 Iowa: 4.75
# 15 New Hampshire: 4.59
# 16 Rhode Island: 3.11
# 17 Wyoming: 2.39
# 18 South Dakota: 2.29
# 19 Maryland: 2.23
# 20 North Dakota: 2.06
# 21 Missouri: 1.93
# 22 North Carolina: 1.68
# 23 Colorado: -0.32
# 24 Texas: -0.44
# 25 Delaware: -0.93
# 26 Indiana: -1.34
# 27 Michigan: -1.41
# 28 Idaho: -1.46
# 29 South Carolina: -2.15
# 30 Washington: -2.17
# 31 Ohio: -2.73
# 32 Illinois: -3.07
# 33 Utah: -3.69
# 34 West Virginia: -3.77
# 35 Kentucky: -4.28
# 36 Florida: -4.41
# 37 Arkansas: -5.19
# 38 Oregon: -7.43
# 39 Oklahoma: -7.74
# 40 Georgia: -8.04
# 41 Tennessee: -8.48
# 42 Hawaii: -9.67
# 43 Alabama: -11.11
# 44 Alaska: -11.25
# 45 Louisiana: -11.56
# 46 California: -12.57
# 47 Nevada: -13.11
# 48 New Mexico: -13.37
# 49 Mississippi: -14.31
# 50 Arizona: -17.81

[McCamy Taylor]

104. Be careful with numbers. Texas is number one in child poverty.

That's because we looove our children so much that we want them to pull themselves up by their cowboy boot straps.

[seabeyond]

105. i dont have to be careful with numbers. i am not saying that texas is perfect. i am saying

this article is bullshit. it is all make believe. this COULD happen. not that it is. and i am saying it is bullshit posters coming on calling our kids stupid. my boys get an excellent education. my boys have teachers and adm that work their ass off. and our schools do not implement this shit.

and these "numbers" show that texas is about in the middle. some better, some worse

isnt it cute how many recommends you got on a purely bullshit article.

[McCamy Taylor]

108. My son got a piss poor education in Texas. Isn't anecdotal evidence fun?

[seabeyond]

112. i guess it depends what the priority is in the home. academics is the highest priority

it is what is expected of them and they take full advantage of the education offered them. they take all the higher level classes and well advanced from our day.

[McCamy Taylor]

122. In Texas schools my son was taught...how to take standardized tests.

They had a whole class just for PSAT! PSAT!

Unless your kid is training to become a professional multiple guess test taker, that is wasted class time.

[seabeyond]

124. my kid is taking chemistry, algebra 2, english, world history, business

and a couple elective. he will have tak tests but they wont be studying for it... he is ahead. what he will take the test on is what he did last year.

so, those classes he has, he will only be doing class time for the subject. high school is different. unless the kid isnt doing well. then they may focus on cramming for the test. hardly the schools fault. they didnt implement. if we didnt buy into the schools are a mess and it is ALL the teachers fault, they would not have implemented this shit.

studying for the tests comes a month before taking the test in the lower grades. yes they focus on them. there are lots of education in the learning of these tests. what the kids have to do with their writing is way beyond what we did in our days. but about all dont like the test, though that is not even close to all the classes are focused on.

to say, that is all your kid learned in school, says a lot. not sure what. but it says a lot.

[McCamy Taylor]

145. Almost everything I learned about literature, philosophy, history, anthropology

politics and the arts I learned through my own reading. The only thing that High School taught me was 1) French 2) math 3) the sciences (two year of Biology, chemistry and physics). I loved the math and science curriculum---but I used to get so exasperated at the dumbed down humanities curriculum. History was just a string of names and dates. It was a joke. In English we read "The Bear" which is guaranteed to make kids hate Faulkner. When the teacher tried to do a women's literature section, the principle told her it was "too contraversial."

From what I have heard from other people who went to school in other parts of the country, some High Schools actually have decent humanties programs, including history. But it seemed to me, growing up, that our teachers went out of their way to make politics seem dry---almost as if the system wanted us to be ignorant of the way the world works. Since I came from a very political family, I knew a lot about politics and government and the way elections work---but I did not learn a bit of it in school. From my family, I learned to question authority. School just said "memorize the textbook."

You would have to ask my son whether or not he had the same experience, but I remember him being as painfully bored in High School as I was. He likes college much better.

Oh, and the dogma all throughout school---"The United States never ever starts a war. We only defend ourselves." Meanwhile, every day on TV there was footage of American atrocties in Vietnam. I don't know whether they thought we were too dumb to notice the disconnect or it they thought that none of us watched the news.

[seabeyond]

148. my sons took a human geography class last year in 9th grade the went around the world spending

a lot of time in each area talking culture, religion, infastructure. adn excellent kick ass class.

farenheit, 1984, the giver, shakespear, to kill a mockingbird, shakespear, the odyssey. this is sons reading just a couple school years.

all kids get bored in school. i was in calif. school was so easy for me. i could go in on monday, get weeks work, go in friday adn take test, and cut the rest of the week.

my kids get bored and i tell them tough shit. do it, for their future. dont do it, and have a fucked up life. reality.

[depakid]

107. The SAT and ACT scores don't look so good (to say the least)

http://www.publicagenda.org/charts/state-state-sat-and-act-scores

[seabeyond]

111. nope. too hard to judge by SAT. ranking are invalid for different reasons.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2007-08-28-sat-table_N.htm

SAT scores by state

Here's a look at SAT scores from each state and Washington, D.C. The College Board cautions against ranking states by scores. The reason: Scores vary greatly by how many students take the exam. The more who take it, the lower the state's score is likely to be.
States are listed according to their participation rates, or the percent of graduating students taking the exam.


http://professionals.collegeboard.com/data-reports-research/sat/cb-seniors-2009


A Word About Comparing States and Schools
Media and others often rank states, districts and schools on the basis of SAT scores despite repeated warnings that such rankings are invalid. The SAT is a strong indicator of trends in the college-bound population, but it should never be used alone for such comparisons because demographics and other nonschool factors can have a strong effect on scores. If ranked, schools and states that encourage students to apply to college may be penalized because scores tend to decline with a rise in percentage of test-takers.

[depakid]

113. The scores are what they are and Texas looks to be right at the bottom

[seabeyond]

114. lol, if you actually read wht i posted, it is the opposite of scores being

"scores are what they are "

those comments where clearly saying the scores are NOT what they are. what they APPEAR to be is not necessarily what they are. and they give you the reason.

the more the school encourages ALL students to take the test, it lowers the scores. the schools that encourage only their brightest to take the test, the higher the score. not rocket science.

[depakid]

116. You can read your own state government's report

Texas is #49 in verbal SAT scores in the nation (493) and #46 in average math SAT scores (502).

Texas is #36 in the nation in high school graduation rates (68%).

Texas is #33 in the nation in teacher salaries. Teacher salaries in Texas are not keeping pace with the national average. The gains realized from the last state-funded across-the-board pay raise authorized in 1999, which moved the ranking from 33 to as high as 26th in the nation, have disappeared over the last five years.

Now, one can argue a little about relative ranking based on what you've noted.

But that doesn't go very far when you rank very nearly dead last.

And the trends ain't looking too good:

Conservatively adjusted for inflation costs of 4% through fiscal year 2007, from fiscal years 2002 to 2007, the Texas state budget was cut in terms of real dollar, per-student funding for universities by 19.92%; for community colleges the per-student cut was 35.29%.



http://www.window.state.tx.us/comptrol/wwstand/wws0512ed/

[w8liftinglady]

131. seabeyond-I've got your back...yes,Texas sucks...but

my boyfriend is a teacher for an impoverished elementary school in the dallas ISD,and he has had great success in TEACHING his "problem children"

we aren't all racist rednecks,folks...and there are many of us that feel compelled to stay here and fight for these kids...our kids.To classify us all with one fail swoop is no better than "THEY" are.

we are trying...and succeeding.It's a lot more challenging here for multiple reasons,but we ARE trying...and doing it without the bible-thank you.

[seabeyond]

132. .

and

yea...

i see that.

your BF is a teacher.

teachers work damn hard. tired of them always getting the short stick.

[onestepforward]

103. Daily KOS helps raise $1,000s for Democratic SBOE candidates

http://www.americanindependent.com/while-texas-school-board-tackles-pro-islam-bias-progressive-blog-helps-raise-1000s-for-democratic-sboe-candidates/

While State Board of Education members are embracing yet another controversial topic — this time, alleged “pro-Islamic” bias in school textbooks — a one-day, online grassroots effort has generated more than $10,000 in campaign cash for Democratic SBOE candidates.

Progressive blog Daily Kos urged readers to contribute to the Judy Jennings and Rebecca Bell-Metereau campaigns early this morning via ActBlue.org. According to the blog, donations matched half of the fundraising goal of $10,000 four hours later, and shot up to $7,000 before noon. The figure, generated by mainly small contributions, was greater than $11,500 by about 2 p.m.

Author Steven Andrew wrote, “the outcome of either of those two elections could affect the entire country for years to come, but both races are so local that just a few bucks or votes could make the difference.”
-snip-

Please donate a few dollars if you can and help us get these fools out of office.

[sakabatou]

106. WTF?!

[McCamy Taylor]

110. On second thought, change that to predominantly CHRISTIAN Germany.

[struggle4progress]

117. ... Starting in late 1936, many Nazis began a movement within the party known as Kirchenaustritt

("leaving the church") ...
The Holy Reich: Nazi conceptions of Christianity, 1919-1945
By Richard Steigmann-Gall
p 219
http://books.google.com/books?id=RreXLeUG_AIC&pg=PA219&lpg=PA219&dq=Kirchenaustritt+nazi&source=bl&ots=BqQt-XMKAd&sig=0FwpvzmBGSPgWbdKG4a9FsdtAAM&hl=en&ei=I7ieTMXpNJGbnweMxtn9DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CCIQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Kirchenaustritt%20nazi&f=false

The long-term Nazi policy of discouraging Party members from church involvement was downplayed during the Kirchenkampf period in the early 1930s but overall during the Nazi period about 2.5 million Germans withdrew from their churches

[McCamy Taylor]

121. Population Germany 1930's 62 million. What were the 50 million Christians doing while

to 2.5 million aetheists were rounding up Jews?

[struggle4progress]

137. I think many Germans were cowering at home, hoping they didn't lose their jobs or

get the living crap beaten out of them by Nazi thugs

It was a dreadful era, and hardly anybody who survived it smells sweet

[defendandprotect]

144. We can all sense that fascism works in creating increasing degrees of FEAR .....

until finally everyone is traumatized and immobilized --

"shock and awe" --

[roxiejules]

173. How to respond to the rise of totalitarianism?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_Nazi_Germany

With the sole exception of the southern part of the state of Baden<4>, Germany's Catholic population, particularly in rural areas, consistently withheld support from the Nazi Party until its takeover of power in 1933.

Catholic clergy, religious orders and laity, especially converted Jews, all suffered persecution under the Nazi regime. Many were deported to concentration camps and were either murdered or died from hardship and privation

[DeSwiss]

118. I was always told Texans were tough.....

...but it turns out they're just a bunch of wimps who can't handle the historical truth.

- The Republican Texans anyways......


K&R

[provis99]

119. Virginia is for Lovers: Texas is for Dummies.

[seabeyond]

126. if you are buying this crap, and not actually knowledgable of what is really going on, who is the

dummie

[StClone]

123. Lock This...they're beaten on Texas here!

Why is it allowed here to pick on Texas! I thought singling out a state for ridicule was not allowed!

[seabeyond]

125. they put a fuckin untrue headline and the DUMMIES on du buy it. nt

[McCamy Taylor]

129. DU DUMMIES? Wow. Maybe you want to self delete that one. It tells us a

little bit more about where you have been than you might want us to know.

[seabeyond]

130. the post above called texans dummies. hence my post. the perceptive person

that took school seriously and didnt fail at it, while blaming everyone else for the fail could recognize that.

or you can just throw out a false accusation that you seem so comfortable doing.

[McCamy Taylor]

135. Al I am saying is that Texas Republicans want to censor textbooks

in order to make people forget that State allied with Church equals deep shit for democracy.

Big business realizes that soldiers do not want to die---or kill civilians--in a war for oil. See "War is a racket". That is why paid shills like Ann Coulter call the Iraq War for Oil a Christian holy war. That is why we are supposed to believe that Jesus thinks the only good Muslim is a dead Muslim---at least until the oil runs out.

The Founders had to fight against a phony state supported "Church" of England that claimed that King George III had a God given right to do whatever the hell he wanted with His colonies. They realized that State sponsored religion was a mockery of religion. Religion had to be free from state control---and the State must not have the power to cloud its citizens' reason and judgment with phony religious pronouncements.

Texas happens to be under the control of the Republican Party right now, mostly because it is so dependent upon oil money. When I hear people on DU claim that we must only speak kind words about Texas Republicans, I have to wonder why? Texas Democrats do not love, worship and adore their screwed up GOP colleagues. Texas Democrats fled to another state in a ( brave but futile) attempt to stop some of the worst Republican shenanigans.

I have been a Texas Democrat all my life, and I do not hold my tongue when the Republicans do something completely immoral---and illegal-- like try to impose a religion on our school kids or try to draw a redistricting map that discriminates against minorities. And I wonder about these folks who claim that Democrats can not prosper in the state if they are not meek. Meek got our votes stolen in 2006. Meek got our voting machines burned down. Meeks helps Rick "Good hair" Perry get elected over and over again, so that he can make sure our kids live in poverty and our poor get their utilities turned off (because the state has better uses for the money set aside to help the poor pay their light bill) and "forgets" to sign up kids that qualify for Medicaid and protects the polluters who are making our cities too toxic to breathe.

There is nothing wrong with Texas and Texans. There is a lot wrong with the Oil Industry that rules this state and the Republican Party that serves them.

[seabeyond]

140. i dont even like texas, let alone texas republicans. i also know that religion is NOT in OUR schools

nor is creationism, nor is selling out their academic integrity for political point of view. and i am tired of these assholes doing this shit with the texas curriculum and people coming on here acting as if the texas school is actually implementing any of this shit... which they are not doing.

i dont like texas. i am a californian. i want out of here. but i have never cottoned to promoting a lie because it makes me feel good.

i really get pissed when they call a state of kids stupid and dummies when i am watching them not only work their ass off; but, doing way more than you or i did in school in our days.

[McCamy Taylor]

142. I agree that Texas children are not "dumb". Some of our voters sure act dumb, though.

If the voters paid more attention, a bunch of Republicans would not think that the way to advance their political career in the state is to tear down the separation between Church and State.

And actually, our public school system in Texas is becoming increasingly saturated with religion. Not free religion. Peer enforced "you had better attend Bible study and pray in the cafeteria or we will kick your ass" religion. This occurs mostly in small towns and the suburbs, so you may not hear about it if you are from urban Texas. The urban South is completely unlike the rural and suburban South.

I don't think that the South ever totally got away from teaching Christianity in the schools. My second grade teacher used to make us say the Lord's Prayer and listen to Bible verses. I knew that my folks were aetheists. It was surreal. In the 6th grade, some guy tried to pass out New Testements in class. Only two people refused them, the Jewish girl, who said "God wrote the Old Testament, man wrote the New" and me. I said "I am not taking one, because you aren't supposed to be here. We have separation of Church and State in this country" (pretty much my exact words).

Maybe it was the same in other parts of the country? I don't remember so much preaching when I was in California.

[seabeyond]

146. california or az, we did not have religion in school. my father grew up in ohio and he didnt

have religion in school. my mom in iowa did not have religion in school. i have often asked, ... they are saying prayer was taken out of school, when was it ever in school?

i am in amarillo.

[McCamy Taylor]

150. Well, we had prayer in Georgia schools, Alabama schools and Texas schools.

And that was after the Supreme Court said "no prayer in schools."

The South---which includes Texas---sometimes seems like its own country.

[McCamy Taylor]

128. Ah yes! Censor a thread about censorship! Sweet irony! I can already feel

my next post....

[StClone]

167. I was Sarcastic

I hate Texas, but in the past I've been censored for posting that Texas is a big monkey on the collective backs of non-Texans. I think it is the root of much damage to our Union. If Oil were not found in Texas we'd be a lot better off as a country: Texas would be North Dakota with a coastline and warmer temps.

[Drale]

134. These people

better not get relelected, the next time elections come around because THEY ARE FUCKING ALOT MORE STUPID THEM EVEN GEORGE W AND THATS FUCKING SAYING SOMETHING!

[treestar]

136. So they apparently feel "education" is brainwashing and gaining

control of the thoughts of others.

[McCamy Taylor]

138. Re: my title, yes, it is a joke. But then again, it isn't. If these brainwashing Bozos had their

way, children would be taught that anti-Semitism was invented in 1933 by Adolph Hitler the socialist Godless aetheist and that there was no 1000 year history of anti-Semitism in Europe that the Nazis counted upon to get Germans to go along. These sanitized textbooks would teach that when you question God and especially State sponsored religion, you immediately go on to commit atrocities (like the Holocaust). We would never be told why the Founders separated Church and State. We would not know that state sponsored pseudo Christian religions were used by kings and businessmen for centuries to justify the enslavement, rape and plunder of other countries---some of them Christian. And the rape, murder and plunder of certain domestic groups---including those who practiced Judaism. Instead, we would be told that the Crusaders had the right idea when they killed civilians in the Holy Land. Because hey, Islam is Satan's religion, all bad, and Christianity can do no wrong.

Basically, there are a group of Americans who want to go back to the days before 1776, when a handful of people could claim they had a god given right to trample all over the rest of us---and if you questioned that right, you were going straight to hell.

Those are the stakes. Luckily, Americans value freedom of religion almost as much as they do free speech. This effort by a bunch of Republicans to court the base will backfire and they will be kicked out an their butts--unless we make the mistake of not spreading the word of what they are doing.

Humor is one way to make a message more fun and palatable. Forgive me if I think freedom or religion and expression are worth fighting for.

[seabeyond]

141. the "bozos", how many. surely you are not suggesting ALL the teachers and ALL the adm

are bozos that would want to teach kids this shit.

that is what my point it. a SMALL group of repugs on education board is doing this shit.

ALL the people i have interacted with in the school system work damn hard to have academic integrity. it doesnt matter if these few bozos change a bet in a text book. the teachers are going to make damn sure they kids are academically educated. that is what i have always found in the system.

you are making this an end of the world to do.

it is not.

[McCamy Taylor]

149. Why do you keep trying to make this about all teachers? My OP talks about all Republicans

on the Board except two. You are the one who seems determined to equate "all Republicans on the board except two" with all the teachers and kids in Texas. As if you are trying to insinuate that I am 1) anti teacher (when I am not) and 2) antistudent (which I absolutely am not, I want kids to get a decent education, not right wing propaganda.)

I do not know what your intention is, but the effect of what you keep posting is to make casual observers say to themselves "This is a teacher bashing thread. Better move on."

Do you have some particular reason for wanting to derail a discussion about censorship and State dictated religious belief? Maybe you like having Christianity touted as the one true religion? If not, say so. Don't keep complaining that this is an antiteacher, anti student thread.

[seabeyond]

165. because, common sense. even IF they change a couple sentences in the text, that does NOT

change the course study. that does not create an atmosphere that the teachers will deny the students proper education. there is a lot of things not in the text that the teachers continue to teach the students. there are things in the text (that the kids use very little today) that teachers have always gone into further or more detailed explanation.

because regardless of whether this gets thru in 2016, it is still a huge ass.... so WHAT?

to suggest ALL the teachers are going to dumb down ALL the students and make them a bunch of dummies with the few things this board is suggesting, on the whole of an education, is...... stupid. and wrong. and does not make logical sense.

yet

people are on here acting as if all a sudden the students world is going to come to an end on the minor changes on books that might/might not be used without teachers discussing it in class and the kids are going to go around as a bunch of dummies.

i have much much much more issue with parents not creating an academic atmosphere in home that is conducive to education. and a society that blames the teachers for the family ills.

i bring up teachers and adm and students because you would have to think very very little of them, in order for this mass stupid to take hold.

[midnight armadillo]

139. "Tax the FUCK out of the churches!"

So said Frank Zappa.

[defendandprotect]

143. Obama has increased funding for "faith-based" religious organizations ....

Agree -- Churches and their surrounding property and soup kitchens should be tax-exempt --

but their real estate holdings, stock portfolios and other fiancial assets should be taxed!

[McCamy Taylor]

147. Have you ever seen the Vatican treasures? I was shocked. And the Catholics are

supposed to be the ones who celebrate poverty and the poor. How can any Christian religion call itself Christian while flaunting so much mammon?

On the flip side, the Liberation Theologists do some fine work. But they are the very antithesis of a State Religion.

[defendandprotect]

152. Mainly they're taught not to think ....

Vatican wealth rivals the Queen's but I don't think there are any current figures --

and don't know if it included any of the "treasures." But maybe 20-25 years ago

estimated at about 50 Billion for both Vatican and Queen.

People are weird at times ... I remember reading that Catholics were afraid to give a

piece of bread to Jews being marched to the trains ... and one actually asked for the

permission of her priest to do so!

Gertrude Stein was one of the first into Germany at the end of the war -- she was just

over the border in France as I recall it -- and she cited the problem with Germans as

"obedience." But then, in both dictarorships -- state and church - they do a great deal

to build up FEAR! And certainly FEAR is a controlling factor for all of us.


OK -- in '63 we had three peacemakers rise -- Pope John XXIII and JFK and Khruschev --

all disposed of quickly!

Pope John XXII tried to give the church a compassionate and humane face with Vatican II --

actually to make the church a democracy -- he told Catholics to use their own conscience to

and free will decide for themselves whether or not to use birth control. That pretty much

kicked Papal "infallibility" in the ass!!

These were great changes -- and there was an immediate right wing coup on Vatican II which

is still going on. Pope John XXII had thrown Opus Dei out of the church -- and pushed

liberation theology. The latter right wing Popes have returned Opus Dei to the church --

after they gave the Vatican $1 billion allegedly to help during the Vatican Bank scandal.


On the flip side, the Liberation Theologists do some fine work. But they are the very antithesis of a State Religion.

They've also banned Liberation Theology!!



Apologies for bending your ear so badly --

I'm a recovering-Catholic!

[apocalypsehow]

154. Your OP does not match the facts contained in the articles you link - not even close. Why is that?

:shrug:

[roxiejules]

176. I wondered about that too

[rasputin1952]

160. But the Alamo, which had no strategic purpose, was indefensible...

and gave Sam Houston victory in 15 minutes at San Jacinto will go down in history as a great deed, (San Jacinto was a true strategic success). Much like the Bataan Death March, Oh, sorry, that won't be in the history books either. The Warsaw Ghetto will be wiped clean; Dachau, Auschwitz, entire villages and towns in Poland will never be heard of. But the small piece of the Alamo that is left will, after all of the building in San Antonio that destroyed the battlefield will be in the books...complete with John Wayne tossing a torch into the power room.

[TexasObserver]

161. LBJ was active rescuing European Jews to Texas 1937-1944

As a freshman congressman in 1937, LBJ joined with several wealthy Texas Jews in a program they called "Operation Texas," which moved several hundred Jews into Texas from Germany, Poland, Czechozlovakia, and Austria. LBJ worked with the State Deparment to get them into the country, as well as helping them get into the country with bogus papers, and giving them jobs in a federal program with which he had close ties.

LBJ gave Lady Bird, his fiancee, a book in 1934 entitled "Nazism: An Assault on Civilization," which predicted accurately the path Nazism was to take, including the holocaust. LBJ and his family were staunch supporters of Jews in the 1920s, and were targets of the KKK for their beliefs.

Of course, these GOP goons that have kidnapped Texas school authority are the kind of scum who fueled Nazism, so this action is not surprising. They're brownshirts.

[deutsey]

182. Wow...that's interesting. I didn't know that about LBJ

Thanks.

[TexasObserver]

183. Charles Marsh, Alice Glass, Jim Novy and Louis Novy were key.

LBJ was tight with a small, wealthy group of Jews in Texas, and they recruited him for the project. He was eager to help, even though only a freshman congressman in 1937, from a district with only 400 Jews.

The Holocaust Education Center and Memorial Museum established the Lyndon Baines Johnson Moral Courage Award in his honor in 1994.

The authority on this topic is James Smallwood, a retired professor from Oklahoma State University. A paper he wrote is my primary source for the information I've mentioned on Operation Texas, although there are other sources which confirm it. His paper is heavily footnoted, and available to wonks. I don't know if it is online. I read it in a journal, of which I get many.

[txlibdem]

168. This is just another example why I am FOR having a national education standard curriculum

I know that a lot of teachers hate that idea (I really have no idea why). But Texas is out of control with its revisionist policies and social engineering via the educational system. It has to be stopped and the ONLY way to do that is by enforcing a national standard for educational expectations and curriculum. There are only 10 people on that committee in Texas and they must be crazy or stoned out of their minds either one!

Help me stop Texas from ruining education! Write to the White House and your congress critters. Please!

-this message brought to you by the liberal democrat living in texas till he can get out from under that mortgage. "I approve this message."

[hayu_lol]

186. Many Texans are probably tearing their hair out over their...

school situation. Kudos to those who are fighting the change.

Texas produces more than it's share of:

football players

cheerleaders

Now, those are the most important classes in high school.

[seabeyond]

187. no, they are not pulling hair out over school situation. it is not in the schools. the schools

are being run well. this has nothing to do with our students, nor what our teachers are teaching the kids.

yes, there is a fight with these ten people.

and no.... football and cheerleading is not the most important classes in the high schools.

the football phenomenon is not exclusively texas.