Is a person that opposes interracial marriage necessarily a racist?

[VMI Dem]

Are there legitimate cases where such a person is not a racist?

Couldn't such a person, in fact, love and respect people of different races than their own, while simultaneously opposing the intermingling of races through the holy union of marriage?

Is this possible?

[seabeyond]

1. one would have to feel a need to seperate which would be do to a superiority/inferiority

position of some type.

i know in htis area they follow old testament literally adn one part of the bible says races should not mingle and have child.... so could be argued not racist but do to religion

[JanusAscending]

35. Sorry to burst your bubble, but that won't fly.

Read in the "Old Testament" Genesis Ch. 12 (the whole chapter) it's short but sweet and to THE point! See what God thinks of this question. This is how He dealt with it, regarding Moses, and his siblings Miriam, and Aaron because of Moses' Ethiopian wife!! Whether you believe in Scripture or not.....don't care. For those that do , and use this as a legitimate argument against interracial marraige...I call BULLSHIT!!These neanderthals can't interpret the New Testament, what makes them think they can do otherwise with the OLD???

[geckosfeet]

39. GOD THINKS!

Well. There we go.

It's all gods idea. Damn him for creating such a variety of skin colors to confound us all.

[JanusAscending]

44. I told you....

it's no skin off of my ass if you believe in god or not! This is not giving permission to those who don't believe, to attack a poster based on information the poster chooses to share with the group. Just save your contempt for the BIGOTS! K??

[geckosfeet]

45. Hey, it's gods fault, not yours. Cool off. He can take it.

[JanusAscending]

55. it's all good...

and just for those who don't have bibles, or are too lazy to look it up..I'll give you a breif synopsis. Miriam was called out of the Tabernacle ..along with her brother Aaron, and Moses who was meek. For speaking out against Moses and his Etheopian wife, Miriam was banned from the Tabernacle, after being struck with Leprosy, for one week. After which God healed her and they were all allowed back into the Temple.

[geckosfeet]

102. errrm, ok. I take your drift.

O8)



:evilgrin:

[seabeyond]

50. hey... i didnt say i believe it. i was hearing when i moved here interracial was a sin

for about 5 years i was asking people where it said it in the bible. finally had a guy tell me where in the bible. no intermingling of races because of how others would treat the child. i told them, then, it is not the sin of the parents or child, but of the people being ugly

all i am doing is stating what i learned. not saying their interpretation is correct

[JanusAscending]

56. I understand that...but hope you

and others here realize that when you pass on FALSE information, it's as bad as the person who fed it to you if you can't back it up. I didn't mean to infer that these were your feelings!

[seabeyond]

59. are you saying

there is not a place in the bible where it talks about tribes should not mix because the children will be ridiculed?

or that southern baptists dont teach their people that?

[JanusAscending]

84. I don't know what southern Baptists preach or don't preach.

There is a very large difference between the term "tribes" and Races. Think about it! How many "Races" are there that you know of? 5 maybe?(please say yes) Now how many tribes are there in the whole world? Just the Native American tribes alone gives ya an idea of the ratio!! Trust me...when people refer to "races" they are referring to COLOR...not tribes...period. I'm not saying there isn't a place in the Bible that refers to what you said either. I've never seen it, and was asking you to show me where to find it. Fundies can find anything they want to support their beliefs if it's taken out of context to fit their need.

[ensho]

2. yes

nt

[Gormy Cuss]

3. Such a person is necessarily bigoted.

Such a person would be racist if he/she worked to make interracial marriage illegal.

[Zhade]

96. Only a couple of posters understood what the OP was really about.

Hint: apply the same standard to same-sex marriage. The answer (if you’re ethically consistent) should be the exact same, given that – like ethnicity – sexual orientation is not chosen, but inherent.

I believe that was the OP’s point. If an elected official is against interracial marriage and holds that marriage is, say, “between a white man and a white woman” (thus showing they are not against marriage itself but the equal right to marry), they are racist. Likewise, anyone who opposes same-sex marriage while insisting that marriage is “between a man and a woman” is a bigoted homophobe.

It’s really that simple. And the point went over so many DUers’ heads in their (justified!) rush to attack perceived racism in the OP. That tells me that a lot of people still don’t see how the GLBT struggle for equal rights is the same as every other minority group’s struggle. But most here, after thinking about it, would likely get the connection instantly.

Those who don’t, don’t matter much to me.

[Gormy Cuss]

107. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

If the OP was making an analogy, some hint should have been present in the OP or a subsequent post by the same person. Otherwise it just falls into the category of "double secret code" by the in-crowd.

While I'd be glad to see the analogy made, the OP didn't do it.

[Warren Stupidity]

4. yes of course and no there is no legitimate opposition to interracial marriage.

But if you think that "opposing the intermingling of races through the holy union of marriage" is not racist bullshit, please explain why it is not racist bullshit. It is OBVIOUSLY AND SELF-EVIDENTLY racist.

[jaxx]

5. No.

[seabeyond]

7. how are they not? nt

[jaxx]

17. Racial purity was tried once and it didn't work.

Why would anyone oppose interracial marriage? It hurts nothing or no one.

edit> by the way, my No answer was to the ones that said is it possible to oppose interracial marriage and not be a racist. No, it isn't.

[Texasgal]

6. That is undeniably racist

n/t

[leftstreet]

8. Should women really be allowed to vote?

Your question seems somewhat dated

[Fuzz]

9. There is no thing as "race" anyway.

[LaStrega]

70. Exactly. n/t

[AngryAmish]

111. You saying that does not make it true.

Race is a heuristic to describe a group of people with similar bodily features. Yes, in modern anthropology they don't find race to be a useful discussion scientifically. What we think as race is hard to describe scientifically. But it clearly exists in peoples attitudes.

Plus, there are pharmaceuticals that are made for african americans. Are you saying that does not happen?

I think the position that races do not exist is a cheap way out of the racial problems in our society.

[stray cat]

10. one could realistically be concerned about added difficulties from society and bigots

few people like to see children discriminated against or beat up by bigots

[seabeyond]

13. actually that is what the bible quote says and people take it as no interracial marriages

reality, it would not be the sin of the couple but of the society that are bigots.

[JanusAscending]

37. Would you PLEASE give us the exact "Bible quote"??

I mean...BOOK ....Chapter...and verse!!

[seabeyond]

52. nope. dont know it. i read it about a decade ago when i got my answer where in the bible

read the text and told the dude i interpreted it totally different than him. the sin is on the bigots that would hurt the child...

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

47. Wow.

Just wow.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

49. If a parent of mine showed such "caring concern" when I brought a black girlfriend...

...all hell would break loose.

I don't suffer bigots lightly.

[Dash87]

94. If you fear the bigots, the bigots win, no?

♥

[Forkboy]

116. LOL

:crazy:

[GodlessBiker]

11. Too easy. Yes. Next question.

[Greyhound]

12. Yes, of course, by definition. n/t

[ClarkUSA]

14. Got it. When it comes to gay marriage, Dick Cheney and Laura Bush are freedom fighters.

Bill (at least until Sept. 2009) & Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, every major presidential candidate in US history and President Obama are not.

Yet President Obama has brought DADT repeal to its closest point since Bubba signed it into law when 98% of Democrats voted for it last week.

BTW, I doubt Republicans can continue their filibuster indefinitely under mounting pressure to "support the troops".

[foxfeet]

51. Could you please clarify how this applies to the OP?

Thanks.

[ClarkUSA]

78. It should be obvious. Thanks for playing. nt

[Forkboy]

117. Oh, it's obvious, alright.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

82. Some people are always angry?

[jesus_of_suburbia]

83. And some people are homophobic?

[foxfeet]

101. Yep, and some people are both.

And they're not afraid to post about it. Over and over. No matter what the content of the thread.

[KaoriMitsubishi]

15. The holy union of marriage?

There is nothing "holy".

[11 Bravo]

16. Is this a rhetorical question?

[customerserviceguy]

54. I think the word 'holy' in it gave that one away!

[Iggo]

18. Yes.

Next!

[City Lights]

19. Yes, no, no, and no. nt

[QC]

20. It all depends on how dreeeeeeeeeeamy that person is. n/t

[VMI Dem]

30. ...

:spank:

[RZM]

21. Who knows?

I think one of the problems here is that there is no accepted definition of racism -- it means something different to everybody and not coincidentally, most people's definition of a racist doesn't includes themselves :)

As far as marriage, I've always supported everyone's right to date/marry whomever they want, and I don't think anyone should ever be given shit for it. I don't judge people if they refuse to date a certain race, nor do I if they ONLY date a certain race (which I guess would technically be more discriminatory, since you're excluding tons of groups instead of just one). What two consenting adults do is none of my business and I would never judge them on it and I would encourage others to do the same.

[MellowDem]

22. I've heard some people oppose it...

because of the "think of the children" line of thinking. It goes that basically the world is a horrible, racist place, so one should never consider having a child with a person from another race as it would put them in such a disadvantage or some such. Course, most people are mixed to some extent or another already, whether it's visible or not. Personally, I think such pessimissm is counter-productive, but I could see in some localities that it would be seriously taboo and could bring a lot of unwanted drama on. Guess you'd have to move then, if you could.

Then there are other theories that races should be kept seperate (from procreating) basically for the sake of diversity, which seems rather ironic. Basically, in such a theory, races are unique and beautiful things that should be preserved like fine wine. Often you can draw a lot of parallels to this line of reasoning and those who try to keep certain dying cultures or languages alive. Indeed, many of these people probably see race and culture as one and the same. This line of thinking usually does believe in race as a major biological factor, but that no race is better than another, just "different". Race seperatists will have this line of reasoning. Why is it bunk? Well, how do they think the current races came to be? Through lots of procreation with different ethnic groups. The whole "purity" idea is bunk, not to mention the biological idea of race.

And if you are being really technical, some people just oppose marriage as a whole.

So yes, it is technically possible to oppose interracial marriage without believing in the superiority of one race over another. I haven't seen a good non-racist reason yet though.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

23. Depends how you define "oppose"

To support overtuening Loving vs. Virginia? Yes, that has to be a racist attitude.

But a person can probably view mixed marriage as suboptimal without being a straight-up racist.

I have know a lot of jews who are happier if their children marry jews. In a case like that I do not read it as a matter of superiority or inferiority, but rather tribalism.

Is all tribalistic group identity racist?

Perhaps, but I am not comfortable expanding the word quite that far. (It causes the word to lose usefulness if it takes in too broad a swath of attitudes.)

[MrScorpio]

24. Absolutely racist

As RACE is the determining FACTOR for such opposition.

[astral]

25. The first thing I want to know is the reason for the question

What if only people who are born of some kind of "pure" race could think such a thing? I am the child of parents from two different countries, am I mixed-race, or is that only if one of the races was brown-skinned? What if I am a child of a parent from a white-skinned country and a parent whose parents were both white-skinned and brown-skinned?

I am born of such a mixed race, now would you look at me and tell me that, and if you could tell by looking, what exactly is it that is wrong with me?

Let's hear it.

On the other hand, if a person for their personal choice wanted to only marry someone of their own race, I would not think that is racist if they do not feel that everyone should think the way they do. In the natural course of things, in the future there may be pure strains of races in addition to all of us mixed-bags, or we may all blend together to where the word 'race' no longer carries any connotations to it as it does in our day.

[Historic NY]

26. You mean oppose Asian marrying an Italian, or a Jew marrying a Irish girl....

or perhaps it Neanderthals mating with humans....that thinking is what White Powers groups spew.

[miscsoc]

113. For obvious reasons I am pro neanderthals mating with humans

[WinkyDink]

27. Racist, IMO. BTW, marriage per se isn't "holy"; it's a civil union. That's why you need a LICENSE.

No church need be involved.

[Generic Other]

28. I would as a product of an interracial marriage consider such a person racist

and believe it is none of their business what another couple did. And I would find them to be ignorant and offensive as well.

[baldguy]

29. The problem is that the standard definition of "race" is wrong.

There are no taxonomic racial differences in modern humans. The things people use instead are either minor superficial physical differences - like skin, hair & eye color - or they're social differences - religion, national origin, and most importantly, perceived wealth. It's these social differences that people who oppose "interracial" relationships usually wish to preserve.

[Gaedel]

120. They can

detrermine the "race" of a skeleton from the bone shapes.

[mix]

31. Yes they are racist.

Racism takes many forms, coercive as well as non-coercive, but its basis is exclusion and purity.

And what is "race" anyways? How is it measured and determined?

[SoCalDem]

32. I have a problem with the word "opposes".

It should be up to the people involved in the marriage.. not the parents, friends, aunties, uncles, neighbors..

(Assuming that both are of legal age)

If they are considering marriage, it's obvious to me at least, that they know each other well and have noticed that there is a difference in their pigmentation. If it's not a "problem" for them, how is it anyone else's "business"?

People spend far too much time trying to decide whether someone else's lives are "acceptable" or not.

My Grandfather always just said .."butt out" to just about every complaint we brought o him, about other people.. his advice has worked pretty well for 50+ years:)

[lunatica]

33. I believe they are

Marriage seems to be the crux of all things. If your beliefs are the same with marriage included in the mix then you aren't a hypocrite or bigoted.

You can say you're fine with other races, but if you object to interracial marriage then obviously you're not fine with other races.

[asdjrocky]

34. I have to ask-

Is this a serious question?

[SargeUNN]

36. As one who lived with Jim Crow in Mississippi I say

No not really. This debate was big as we saw the end of Jim Crow, but strangely the ones who championed it were also the ones who supported Jim Crow. Certainly some who didn't support Jim Crow used this but as I tried to get them to give reasons for it, they eventually came back to the racist view. The key statement in Jim Crow was the blacks are inferior people and strangely enough the ones who said they were not racist but didn't think interracial marriage was right turned up giving exactly that same key issue.

[geckosfeet]

38. What possible reason is there to oppose 'the intermingling'?

And what really is being intermingled? There is ONE race - the human race.

Any argument based on the idea that there is more than one race is in my mind invalid from the get go.

[JCMach1]

40. may not make you 'hateful' but does make you a racist...

[Vickers]

41. "the intermingling of races"

:rofl:

Yeah, we better hope THAT never happens!!!

UNrec for even bringing this crap up at DU.

[Odin2005]

42. Yes.

[pnwmom]

43. Any desire to prevent the "intermingling" of races is in itself racist.

There is no valid reason to keep individuals of any race apart; and there is no such thing as a "pure" race anyway. We are all mixes, if you go back far enough.

[Mefistofeles]

46. Of course

If a white man doesn't like black girls, for example, fine. He cannot be forced to date a black girl. But if he opposes any white person dating a black man, then he is clearly a racist.

[Taverner]

48. Yes, they are a racist

[Lyric]

53. Nope, not possible.

There is NO reason for opposing interracial marriage that does not have a "My race is superior" and/or "Other races are outsiders who threaten my race" sentiment at heart.

[JustinL]

57. yes, just as a person that opposes gay marriage is necessarily a homophobe

I assume the intention of your OP is to draw that analogy.

[ZombieHorde]

58. A person could be against ALL marriage, and therefore, by definition, be against

interracial marriage and gay marriage.

[CBR]

60. This question is asked about once a month like clockwork. nt

[jonnyblitz]

112. and it's obvious why many of you don't like that. nt

[CBR]

114. I love the question being in an interracial marriage for five years.

I am unsure of who this "you" is.

[mzteris]

61. yes.

there are no excuses, no passes, no rationale. You can "say" anything you want, but the bottom line is, if you oppose interracial relationships for any reason whatsoever - you're a racist.

[Rabrrrrrr]

62. No, not necessarily. Not from any logical standpoint, anyway, given the data at hand.

[malaise]

63. Just thinking about it is racist

By the way, what's holy about marriage?

[MilesColtrane]

64. Yes

No

Such an attitude is possible, but that would still make them a racist.

[GSLevel9]

65. please excuse the OT... why do you have a tiger pelt as your sig? nt

[Fire1]

68. My concern, as well. n/t

[Autumn]

92. Been a lot of tigers around here in

the sig lines lately. I have been curious myself.

[QC]

109. Perhaps he is expressing some sort of solidarity. n/t

[JTFrog]

110. With who? Sarah Palin? n/t

[Nikki Stone1]

66. Not necessarily. If a black woman worries that a successful black man will marry a white woman

like Tiger Woods did, for example, that may be more economic than racist.

Edited for clarity.

[cemaphonic]

71. That seems pretty unambiguouslyy racist to me

Why shouldn't black men, successful or not, marry whomever they want? And what non-racist reason would a black woman have for "worrying" about it?

[Nikki Stone1]

89. The worry is that the successful man's money is leaving the community

and will leave fewer eligible black men for black women to marry. I have a friend who worried about this for years. She ended up marrying a white man because she had a hard time finding eligible black males (her words, not mine.)

I understand that concern. Underneath is the fear of destruction of the group.

[Fire1]

67. No. Not possible. n/t

[mkultra]

69. Yes, anything else is just a lie to cover the bigotry.

[Scuba]

72. Sounds like a definition for racist to me.

[Rex]

73. If the reason has to do with anything other than skin color then maybe, maybe not.

Otherwise they might be a racist.

[louis c]

74. Yes.................you would be a racist

I am inter-racially married. I am Western European American married to an Asian. No one can tell me who to love, period. And I would never tell anyone else who they can love, either.

Link:
http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/specials/bill_brett/nov08seen2?pg=27

[SaveOurDemocracy]

75. Absolutely, racist. What other possible reason could...

there be for opposing "intermingling of races"? Racial purity = racism.

[chaska]

76. Yes, and that's just fine. It's human nature to be rascist...

and everyone is.

[TexasObserver]

77. Yes, the person who opposes interracial marriage is necessarily a racist.

They can think they're not, but they're wrong.

[shanti]

79. yes

if you are against interracial marriage, you ARE a racist! ain't no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

[etherealtruth]

80. Is a person that opposes interracial marriage necessarily a racist?

Yes

[blondeatlast]

81. !. Yes, they are racist. 2. No. 3. No. 4. There's nothing "holy" about marriage, so no.

5. Not at all.

[ruggerson]

85. Anyone who opposes interracial marriage is a racist n/t

[Unvanguard]

86. Yes. No. No. No. n/t

[Name removed]

87. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AspenRose]

91. ^^^^ Best answer.

:yourock:

[ruggerson]

98. the word in the OP is "opposes"

that connotes to me an aggressive, more active stance than merely a closely-held belief.

Besides, I do think it's racist, even if it's just a belief. The world changes one person at a time and we shouldn't let people who have racist belief systems off the hook. It's not just an innocuous simple opinion, it's a dangerous cancer that can grow.

[Warren DeMontague]

88. Yes. And I don't understand why ANYONE thinks who other people marry is any of their business.

Racist? Absolutely. And fucked in the head to boot.

[NoGOPZone]

90. If one opposes the intermingling of races through the holy union of marriage

then IMHO one doesn't love and respect people of different races their own.

[Dash87]

93. Yes, I believe they are.

I can't see any way how somebody can oppose interracial relationships and not be a racist, because race is the factor in the viewpoint.

♥

[entanglement]

95. YES! You are a bl**dy bigot even if you're nothing else, congratulations! Next.

/Why is this kind sh*t even allowed on DU?

[iris27]

97. Yes, No, No, and No.

In that order.

[JerseygirlCT]

99. Yes, no, no, no nt

[Ohio Joe]

100. No - nt

[jeffrey_X]

103. Yes.

eom

[indy legend]

104. As a white male happily married to an African-American woman for the last 20 years

with three wonderful little girls (16-13 and 9) I really don't give a damn if anyone likes it or not, or approves on religious or any other grounds. I have occasionally ran into racist comments and quickly forcefully persuaded said bigot to go fuck himself. They have the right to have any attitude they want, and when they blow me or my family shit about it you can be sure I will exercise my right as a husband and father to adjust said attitude of said racist fuck. I am very liberal in most of my views but turning the other cheek and letting things like idiocy, racism,bigotry and hate slide is not a virtue I have been able to master yet when it comes to dealing with right wing morons.

[marmar]

105. Kudos....Great post.

:applause:

[Arkana]

106. Um, I assume this is sarcasm.

[treestar]

108. Yes, of course

One would have to be a racist to oppose that. There is no legitimate other reason to oppose it.

[miscsoc]

115. We can discuss the rights and wrongs of racism

But yes, opposing interracial marriage is racist, by any reasonable definition of the term.

[Evasporque]

118. No.

[Blue_Tires]

119. ummm... whut?

and for the record, your OP is the rationale a lot of seemingly good-meaning, polite and educated "I'm not racist" people had a generation or two ago...

the bottom line is still the same...

[Ganja Ninja]

121. Yes they are racist.

You can chose to marry the way you want but you have no right to oppose the choice of others. It's as simple as minding your own damn business. People who chose to marry outside of their own race don't need to hear other people's "views". It's none of their damn business.