MSNBC Education town hall teacher: Put NEEDIEST kids in the "charter" schools, if they're so great.

[chimpymustgo]

She was great. Called the film "Waiting for Superman" pure propaganda. No Diane Ravitch.

Turning out to be a good town hall.

[senseandsensibility]

1. Glad to hear a teacher got a voice

There's a reason TPTB don't allow them to "talk back" very often.

[chimpymustgo]

4. The town hall is all teachers. There is a lot of pushback to the prevailing attacks on teachers.

Just mentioned that 40.9 of schools are considered below the party line.

Great teacher up now: income level does not equate with intelligence level. And just because a child READs on a first grade level doesn't mean they THINK on a first grade level. This is really a good forum.

[senseandsensibility]

5. This may be the one time teachers are allowed to

weigh in. It's my understanding they have not been allowed to participate in any of the previous "shows" on NBC. This is why. They would have have everyone on their side within five minutes if they were allowed more access to the airwaves.

[chimpymustgo]

7. It will be interesting to see how this week plays out. I hope this isn't the "teacher ghetto" -

relegated to Sunday afternoon on MSNBC (when they normally have their prison shows) - and the Guggenheims and Rhees get to run roughshod on the more viewer-rich news shows and times. Though if Rachel, Keith and Ed are participating, I'd expect some balance. And Lawrence!

[senseandsensibility]

19. You are right to fear a teacher "ghetto" programming

In fact, apparently, it has alredy happened. None of this is accidental, of course. They don't want teachers to be heard. However, I think we should e-mail Rachel, et al and try to get some balance. It seems like a lost cause, but I don't want to give up. And without some kind of push, even the liberals at MSNBC might fall into line.

[Pirate Smile]

2. That was an excellent point.

[Dinger]

3. Called Davis Guggenheim Leni Riefenstahl

Perfect. And yes, she was great.

[CBR]

6. I am glad they have charter school teachers on as well. It seems

they are not in the debate at all.

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. Too busy working 12 hour days

They'll also probably be fired for speaking out.

[CBR]

11. They spoke about the misconceptions regarding charter schools.

These teachers are partners. My husband teaches Pre-K at a laboratory school through a university. He has a BS, took the Praxis, does all the professional development etc... He is a partner is advancing education.

[Catshrink]

12. All classroom teachers are "partners in advancing education."

It the administrators and mostly the politicians who get in the way of us doing our jobs.

[CBR]

13. I agree. That is what I was getting at. I want to hear from the teachers

at charters because we only seem to hear from the administrators, funders etc...

[proud2BlibKansan]

Ask your husband to speak out

Then sit back and wait for the reaction of his employer.

[CBR]

17. You obviously do not know my husband. You know nothing about this setting.

It is a great place to work. I work for them as well in a completely different capacity.

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. Is he willing to speak out or not?

If he did that would be my opportunity to get to know him. :)

[CBR]

23. He would speak out. He does not mince words. At the time, there is nothing in particular

to complain about. Working for a university is a pretty good gig.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. Good for him

That's not the case here or in every other state where they have charters.

[CBR]

15. It is just as bad to badmouth non-traditional public teachers

as it is to badmouth public teachers.

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. I'm not badmouthing any teachers

Just pointing out that charter school teachers here where I am (and in many other locations) don't have the same employment security or working conditions as teachers in traditional public schools. So it isn't safe for them to speak out.

You're going to have to explain how that is badmouthing teachers.

[CBR]

21. That was simply the original point of my post to which you responded...

it is extremely helpful to hear from all types of teachers. We do not hear from other teachers at all on here. The post was a general reply and not directed at you personally.

[senseandsensibility]

22. It's not.

Nor is it an accident that teachers are being confined to speaking on Sunday afternoon in place of the usual prison garbage. Teachers of all kinds are WAY too effective to be allowed to speak to the public when anyone is watching.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. That is so very true

I am surprised to learn Diane Ravitch was on Meet the Press today. She is the only honest voice in this entire debate. And the only teacher.

[senseandsensibility]

26. Do have good contact information for Keith or Rachel?

I'd really like to write to them regarding this blacklisting of teachers and their voices, especially since it's happening on their network. They are our only chance of getting some balance.

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. Every time I have ever emailed them I get no reply

Wish I had a better answer.

I'm going to the march in DC next weekend. I plan on finding Thom Hartman and asking him to do a show for us - with teachers.

[mzteris]

33. with charter teachers, too? n/t

[bread_and_roses]

50. I have not noticed Charter School TEACHERS being under attack?

While public school teachers are under daily assault in the media, the halls of State Gov't, and at the Federal level. Besides, for the many Charter School teachers who do not have union protection, why should we believe anything they would say? And that is not a "slur" or an "attack" - very few people are in a position to put their livelihoods in danger by saying anything in public that would be critical of the employer.

[mzteris]

61. don't read these education threads much

then.

The "trad" teachers generally (though not all) seem to take a very dim view of their sister teachers in the charter system.

One of the reasons most charters are not unionized is because they aren't necessary. The teachers have a good working partnership. Most charters (80%+) are standalone - that one school with a board and an admin and teachers - there are not the layers of bureaucracy and red tape and bs.

[Jax]

63. If you don't read the threads how do you know

"trad" teachers seem to take a very dim view of their sister teachers?

I have seen you in plenty of these threads.

Your charter school info is bs.

Kind of like you "don't read these threads much".

[mzteris]

66. *I* read the threads

evidently you don't or you'd know that "charter teacher bashing" is A-OK with the trad teachers (not all of them, but most of the ones who claim to be teachers)

My charter public school information is based on facts and information.

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Telly Savalas]

58. Employment security in the KCMOSD?

Didn't they just lay off hundreds of teachers over the summer?

[rucky]

8. Was Ravitch not invited?

[chimpymustgo]

16. She was not in the documentary about school reform, which is being hailed as the second coming by

the corporate media. I have not seen it, but I know it features Michelle Rhee as a "hero" - and she is widely reviled in DC (which just voted out the Mayor, much due to Rhee).

Ravitch was on Meet The Press this morning, along with Rhee, Arne Duncan, and Robert Bobb (Detroit schools). Part of this "reform movement" seems to be an attack on teacher union, with an emphasis on charter schools and bringing corporate money into the school system. And you know where that's going to lead, right?

*****
Diane Silvers Ravitch (b. July 1, 1938) is a historian of education, an educational policy analyst, and former United States Assistant Secretary of Education who is now a research professor at New York University's Steinhardt School of Culture, Education, and Human Development.

-edit-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diane_Ravitch

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. Just watched MTP. Ravitch wasn't on.

It was Arne Duncan, Michelle Rhee, Robert Bobb and Randi Weingarten.

Was Ravitch on another show? I would love to watch what she had to say.

[Starry Messenger]

9. k & r

[Me.]

25. I Despise What The 'Great' Duncan ^ Crowd Have Been Doing To Teachers

Making them the punching bags and scapegoats for the ill of the nation. of the nation. These are people who use their own money to buy supplies for the students. I will grant you that not all teachers are fab at their jobs, but so many are and get little thanks for it. I'm glad they're fighting back. There was a recent incident at a charter school in Harlem where the teachers had been told they would be working 9 hours days and then a week before school started they were told it would be a mandatory 12 hour day. 75% of the teachers didn't return and the parents are up in arms. I heard on a talk show this morning that whoever controls the house after the election, dem or con, they are going to put a stop to race to the top, for different reasons of course

disclaimer: I am nt a teacher

[senseandsensibility]

27. Why would they put a stop to it?

Of course they should, but why would they?

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. The GOP can be easily convinced it's too expensive

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. The majority of charters are not union schools and many have no contracts

I have a friend who was happily retired and contacted by a charter school to be a Reading teacher. She took the job and was never given a contract to sign, wasn't paid until November, and was paid 50% of what she was promised. When she complained, the charter school board said if you don't like it, quit. So she quit. The principal then went to the board and said she needed a Reading teacher and the board fired her.

Meanwhile, there is still no Reading teacher at this school.

[mzteris]

35. what's the name of this school? n/t

[Me.]

42. There's A Real Bait & Switch Going On

I guess they figure because unemployment is a problem they can treat people any way they want. Most people can't afford to wait to be paid and gypping people out of their pay does not make for better teachers.

[dkf]

28. I think that is a great idea.

We should put kids who are the farthest away from their potential in charter schools. They are the ones who will most benefit from the flexibility that charters can provide. I say do it!

Maybe this IS what we need to get things going. Maybe we even need special schools to get these kids back to grade level.

All I know is I love the discussion we will be having on our educational system. It gives me hope that things will be improved.

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. This was Al Shanker's original vision for charters

He saw them as an alternative for kids who weren't succeeding in traditional schools. But 5 years after he conceived the idea of charters, he didn't like what they had become and spent the rest of his life opposing them.

[Pholus]

34. Bravo! Of course, the neediest students can't pay as much but I'm sure there is money somewhere...

[mzteris]

36. most charters have proven to be more efficient

in managing their money. Less bureaucracy and red tape for one.

[senseandsensibility]

38. Link?

Thanks.

[mzteris]

60. they do the same -

or more - with less.

Charter schools' competitive edge
Differences in funding, flexibility allows Sonoma County campuses to avoid brunt of budget crisis

Dunham Elementary Principal and Superintendent Kim Wilding went to her school board last school year with an idea: To become a charter.

“We wanted to keep our programs intact with all the budget cuts that were happening in the state,” she said. “By becoming a charter, we had a different funding formula.”

A change in funding allowed Dunham to keep all 180 school days this year, three days of professional development and other programs, Wilding said. Enrollment went from about 183 last year to 188 this year, she said." http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20100924/COMMUNITY/100929703?p=3&tc=pg


********


"Charter schools across the United States are funded at 61 percent of their district counterparts, averaging $6,585 per pupil compared to $10,771 per pupil at conventional district public schools." http://www.edreform.com/charter_schools/funding/

Flexibility is built into the system. You don't have to wait for the bureaucracy and red tape. You don't have to "do it that way because it's ALWAYS been done that way" even if "that way" is idiotic and costs twice as much as "another way"...

That 61 percent is an "average" - some states have far more, some far less - here's a state by state funding list:

"Charter schools are public schools and should receive the same type and amount of funding as conventional district schools. But they do not. On average, charter schools are receiving 40 percent less funding than conventional public schools. Charters are doing more with less, and must use their scarce time and resources to raise additional funds."

http://www.edreform.com/charter_schools/funding/chart.htm

lots of info at this site - didn't want to inundate my post with clips like I usually. :D


***
More educating with less money
Orange County Register Op-Ed - California Focus
By: Evelyn B. Stacey
3.27.2009
"The Oakland Charter Academy and the Our Community Charter School in the San Fernando Valley have won the Hart Vision "Charter School of the Year" award from the California Charter Schools Association. Schools statewide have good reason to take note, especially in tough economic times.

. . . Oakland Charter Academy manages to achieve high scores with a smaller budget than most other public schools." Evelyn B. Stacey is a Policy Fellow in Education Studies at the Pacific Research Institute in Sacramento. http://www.pacificresearch.org/press/more-educating-with-less-money

[madfloridian]

43. Oh, that is so not true. I am going to gather up info and prove you wrong.

[Hannah Bell]

47. that's baloney. there was just a report on that point; 1/2 of chicago charters run deficits.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8942409


& most charter school talking points are falsehoods & distortions.

[Pholus]

55. Yeah, just like Star Academy in Arizona. Embezzlement and a surprise closing.

In 2000. Look it up.

Ohhhhhhhh the wonders of privatization. It cannot help but be more efficient.

At least when it is not a g*dd*mn scam.

[senseandsensibility]

56. Waiting for the link

It's been hours.

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. Several billion in Race To The Top

You bet there is money available.

[riderinthestorm]

39. I only heard the tail end of the convo but did you hear Michelle Rhee at the end?

The moderator asked (wanted to get an answer from all of them but ran out of time so only Michelle got to chime in) each of them to tell what they felt would be the most beneficial thing a parent or community member could do right now to help their local school.

Michelle Rhee said give $$. Lots of money if you can.

The moderator, with less than 10 seconds to go, almost talks over her to say that a teacher friend of his said that parents and community members should get involved at their local school. Go to the school and ask what you can do: volunteer, tutor, aide the teacher etc.

It was a stunning contrast in my humble opinion. I have always volunteered at my childrens' schools and nothing beats parental involvement, hands-on involvement in school is so effective from what I can see. Parents who are involved in helping their children succeed actually make an incredible difference for their child, the other students, and the "community" spirit of the school. I feel incredibly fortunate to have time in my week to give.

I was sorry I'd missed the rest of the program. I just happened to be driving my daughter somewhere and flipped it on near the end, I didn't even know it was happening and I've been following the DU discussions pretty closely, even if I haven't had time to comment much.

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. You must be talking about a different program. Michelle Rhee wasn't on this one.

She was on MTP which I taped and am watching now.

[riderinthestorm]

48. Ah, the one I heard had Arne Duncan, Michelle Rhee and others, plus the moderator

I only heard the last 10 minutes or so and didn't catch the program name or title since I was in the car for just the brief segment. I'm in the Chicago area and it was finishing close to noon today, broadcast on Chicago's progressive talk radio station. When I get a minute I'll try to figure out what program it was.

But again, I was pretty surprised at her 'suggestion" on what parents/community members could do right now that would be most effective in helping their local school.

Her answer was that everyone should give their school "money, lots of money"?!

Really?

I know schools always need cash but in this day and economy that's a tough one whereas volunteering time, labor and assistance would seem to be a better more do-able suggestion that would probably buy a better "return" on a whole lot of levels.

[proud2BlibKansan]

49. Meet The Press. Just finished watching it.

Rhee wants a national movement of people donating money so kids can go to better schools.

She's an idiot of the highest order. Can't wait to see her fired from her current gig.

BTW, she is well paid. I wonder how much she is willing to donate? :)

[stray cat]

40. like the lotteries in harlem - those harlem elitists?

[Pholus]

57. You know how business works. The trial samples are free.

Once you need to buy for real -- then the price is a bit higher. Private schools won't educate the masses for free.

Mark my words -- this will not end well for our country. Privatizers had their go in the medical system and look what a great mess they made of it. I know all you billionaires and geniuses figure you're too smart to fail, but my dumb old common sense says that this is a big old scam we'll be paying for for generations.

[stray cat]

41. How many progressives would send their kids to public schools in harlem, the bronx

rural mississippi -

[Dappleganger]

44. What are you saying?

that every single teacher in Harlem, Bronx and rural Mississippi's schools are not qualified to do their jobs, or that progressives should not send their kids there to be with "those kids?"

[femmocrat]

52. There were quite a few NYC teachers who spoke.

They looked and sounded well-qualified to me! The dedication to their students was awesome.

[proud2BlibKansan]

46. I sent mine to magnet schools located in the urban core

And I'd do that again in a heartbeat. Absolutely wonderful experience for both of them.

[Pholus]

54. Public schools all the way baby. I'd volunteer of course.

[demmiblue]

62. Is this a regurgitation of the elitist meme? n/t

[Pisces]

64. They wouldn't, but some on this board like to posture.

There is an agenda and they can not deviate to be honest about the inner city public schools.

[demmiblue]

65. Wow... I never knew that there are no progressives in the inner cities that send their kids

to public schools. Who knew?

:shrug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

67. Damn. You caught me.

:eyes:

[maryf]

53. K,R, and solidarity nt

[txlibdem]

59. I knew I had better not watch that education town hall

I just knew that it would have royally pissed me off.