Obama: D.C. schools don't measure up to his daughters' private school

[sonomak]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/27/AR2010092701766.html

Obama: D.C. schools don't measure up to his daughters' private school
By Nick Anderson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, September 27, 2010; 9:30 AM

President Obama said Monday that his daughters could not get the same level of education from D.C. public schools that they receive at the elite private school they attend.

Obama, following a path chosen by some of his predecessors in the White House, chose to enroll his daughters Malia and Sasha in the Sidwell Friends School soon after he won the 2008 presidential election.

The president, in a television appearance Monday morning on NBC's "Today" show, was asked by a woman from an audience whether a public school in his home city could measure up to the standards of his children's private school.

"I'll be blunt with you: The answer is no right now," the president replied. Obama said the D.C. schools are "struggling." There are "terrific individual schools" in the city, he said, and because he is president he could "probably maneuver" to get his daughters into one of them.....

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http://www.sidwell.edu/admissions/tuition-and-fees/index.aspx
Tuition for 2010-2011
Lower School $31,069
Middle and Upper Schools $32,069

[Brickbat]

1. Jayzus H. This is a fucking nightmare.

[ClarkUSA]

58. Why? Because he told the truth?

What do you disagree with?

Here is more of what he said:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9208790&mesg_id=9208790

[WestSeattle2]

130. There are many on this board who support the status quo....

including a 40 percent drop-out rate in many urban districts. Yup, move along, nothing to see here except generations of kids being robbed of a decent education.

The truth hurts; it's indefensible. That's why anyone pointing out the obvious is heckled and shouted down by many of those "professional educators."

It's important to keep in mind that "professional educators" are the people who drove the education bus into the ditch. Of course they're not willing to acknowledge their profound failures.

[EFerrari]

2. "Do as I say, not as I do." n/t

[dkf]

23. Is he telling anyone to pull their kids out of private schools because the public schools are

Superior?

[ClarkUSA]

56. How so, EFerrari? What does that mean? What did he "say" exactly?

Here, I'll tell you and save you the trouble of reading the whole article:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9208790&mesg_id=9208790

[FiveGoodMen]

3. An educated public is necessary for a democracy to function

That means good education for everyone.

If it's privatized, that means better education for the rich.

But those of us who actually pay attention already knew what side this guy is on.

[Doremus]

29. Feudalism, here we come.

Serfs and lords.

In so many ways, not only privatization of schools but in many different issues, it has become crystal clear that this country is metamorphosing before our very eyes. The new America isn't a place I want to be. :cry:

[ClarkUSA]

61. Please point out any hints of impending "feudalism" in Pres. Obama's statements. Quote him, please.

To make it easier, here's most of what he said:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9208790&mesg_id=9208876

[Luminous Animal]

88. If he wants to make all schools as good as his daughter's private schools...

then D.C. per pupil spending should increase to $30,000+.

[ClarkUSA]

94. Not sure what evidence you have for your idea, but I've already shown that's not necessary.

Read more:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9208790&mesg_id=9209363

[EFerrari]

122. A premature claim on your part. n/t

[Doremus]

146. Please point out the sentence, phrase or even single word that says it was in Obama's statement.

My goodness, you're so intent on posting a snarky comeback that you read things into my post that aren't there.

Read again, please. I defy you to show me where I said that Obama's statements mentioned ANYTHING contained in my post.

You may apologize now. Thank you.

[ClarkUSA]

59. Did you even bother to read the story before you attacked this President for speaking the truth?

Which part of his statements justify any of what you just said. Pick a quote:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9208790&mesg_id=9208790

[KittyWampus]

89. I know quite a few families with kids in private school. They aren't rich. Your stereotype sucks

[Arkana]

132. Yeah, I really liked the part where Obama said no one should go to school.

Oh, wait. He never said that.

[babylonsister]

4. And? So?? Did he lie??? nt

[young but wise]

6. +1

[EFerrari]

10. The president throws $30K + a year per kid at their school

and yet he says throwing money at schools is not a solution.

It seems to be working out pretty well for him. :)

[SammyWinstonJack]

14. +1

:evilgrin:

[ClarkUSA]

16. So paying school tuition = "throwing money at schools"? Interesting.

I'll have to let my parents know that's what they've been doing all my life.

:eyes:

[Statistical]

26. The point is if public schools got $30K/year/kid....

how many of the problems w/ public schools would be fixed.

The reality is virtually every "good" private school would be a bad school if it had to survive on the budget of public schools.

So money does matter when it comes to education. It isn't the only factor but it is a factor.
Given money matters saying public schools need to "cut the fat" while enrolling your kids in private schools (at 5x the expense of public schools) is basically saying rich kids deserve better education than poor kids.

Black and white that is what is being pushed.

My kids are rich and their education is more important to someone who can't pay $500K out of pocket per child for K-12 education.

[ClarkUSA]

35. There are plenty of Blue Ribbon public school systems who operate on far less and are stellar. nt

[WinkyDink]

37. Name one.

[ClarkUSA]

46. Every public school on these lists of 2010 Blue Ribbon Schools spent < $17,200 per student:

2010 Blue Ribbon High Schools:
http://www2.ed.gov/programs/nclbbrs/2010/high-schools.pdf

2010 Blue Ribbon Middle Schools:
http://www2.ed.gov/programs/nclbbrs/2010/middle-schools.pdf

2010 Blue Ribbon Elementary Schools:
http://www2.ed.gov/programs/nclbbrs/2010/elementary-schools.pdf

How do I know all of the above schools have lower than the 30K per-student tuition cost of Sidwell School?

Because this USA Today news story dated June 29, 2010, the latest figures available show that "New York public schools top nation in per-student spending" at $17,173: http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2010-06-29-school-spending_N.htm

[EFerrari]

54. Ah, yes. Blue Ribbon Schools.

"The NCLB-Blue Ribbon Program also paid much closer attention to academic outcomes, making test scores on state achievement tests the primary indicator of eligibility" -- p. 8, The Blue Ribbon School Program.


Sidwell Friends School Philosophy

Sidwell Friends School is an educational community inspired by the values of the Religious Society of Friends and guided by the Quaker belief in "That of God" in each person. We seek academically talented students of diverse cultural, racial, religious and economic backgrounds. We offer these students a rich and rigorous interdisciplinary curriculum designed to stimulate creative inquiry, intellectual achievement and independent thinking in a world increasingly without borders. We encourage these students to test themselves in athletic competition and to give expression to their artistic abilities. We draw strength from silence—and from the power of individual and collective reflection. We cultivate in all members of our community high personal expectations and integrity, respect for consensus, and an understanding of how diversity enriches us, why stewardship of the natural world matters and why service to others enhances life. Above all, we seek to be a school that nurtures a genuine love of learning and teaches students "to let their lives speak."

[ClarkUSA]

62. And so??? What's your point?

[Hello_Kitty]

86. It's pretty obvious. Those Blue Ribbon public schools get to cherrypick their students. eom

[ClarkUSA]

93. No, you're wrong. Blue Ribbon public schools accept any student that live in their school district

If you don't believe me, why don't you call up some of the 2010 Blue Ribbon schools named on the lists I provided and ask them?

[EFerrari]

108. You really don't want to go down this road.

Because first, you'd have to whittle these lists down to only public schools.

Then, you'd have to figure out who can afford to live in these districts.

Then, you'd have to weigh the vastly lower standards that make these schools "blue ribbon" against say, a school that the Obamas can get behind like Sitwell Friends.

When you finish doing all of that, there is very little left except the reality that we must fund our schools just as the Obamas fund the schools that their daughters attend.

[Name removed]

100. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ClarkUSA]

102. Public schools charge school tuition for kids who want to attend them but live outside the district

One public elementary school in my town charges over $28K for the privilege, in fact.

<< So, you're about 21 or so? >>

Is this supposed to some lame insult based on ageism? If so, it's a bigoted comment.

[Number23]

120. The post you're responding to is probably the dumbest post I've ever seen

I tend to stay away from the :eyes: smiley, but your use of it in response to that post is entirely appropriate. Unreal.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

18. .

:rofl:

[Canuckistanian]

41. +1000

Yes, let's NOT bring up the subject of money when we're talking about improving schools :sarcasm:

[CakeGrrl]

73. Maybe POTUS has some extra SECURITY concerns that others don't?

:eyes:

No. Can't be. He's just a garden variety corporatist elitist which is all some are looking to say about him every chance they get.

[EFerrari]

107. So you agree that throwing money at your childrens' needs

is appropriate, then?

[Smarmie Doofus]

133. Hmm. I believe they went private in Chi as well.

Lab School, if I'm not mistaken.

Don't think security was an issue.

Interesting thought, though.

[proud2BlibKansan]

129. +1

[leftstreet]

135. +1

[laughingliberal]

150. Funny, we hear how 'throwing the schools $20,000 per student has failed so 'money isn't the...

answer.'

[frylock]

104. it was a fucking stupid thing to say..

really? your $30,000 per year private school is better than the cash-strapped public school? this guy is a fucking jeenyus. i'm sorry i ever doubted him.

[chimpymustgo]

148. Actually, he did. There are a number of elementary and middle schools where they could get just as

good an education as at Sidwell, and a least a couple of high schools.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

152. He absolutely did not lie! He told the truth. I live in Washington, D.C., and the schools aren't

good. However, they ARE improving. That is the truth. The president acknoledged that in his statement. No, they aren't the best, but they ARE improving. There should not have been anything controversial in his remarks, yet that's what all the D.C. media has been talking about for the last few days.

Even D.C. residents *themselves* admit that the schools aren't good, even while acknowledging that progress has been made.

[Mass]

5. He added that, as president, he could probably find a great public school in DC, but this was not

true for a majority of people who dont have connections.

[Tatiana]

7. WOW. Their tuition is about what I paid for 4 years of undergrad.

So basically what I'm hearing the President say is that none of Rhee's schools, including the much bally-hooed CHARTERS, measure up to his standards.

So then the question becomes, what is Sidwell Friends doing that should be implemented in the public school system to make them as good?

[dkf]

21. The best charter schools accept by lottery.

[EFerrari]

28. They're being funded. n/t

[Statistical]

31. Well I am sure the funding helps.

Most public schools operate on a much smaller budget.

I think per student spending on DC public schools is about $9K per student.

Money doesn't solve all problems but it certainly helps.

More money means better teachers, newer books, better facilities, better security (students less worried about violence), better food at lunch (hard to learn after lunch when eating garbage).

An interesting experiment would be to give one DC school a budget equal to private school budget (on per student basis) and see how much education level improves.

[Mass]

33. Money to keep and train teachers would be a start.

Even in our very performing local HS, teachers were fired and classes closed this year, because the town does not have enough money to pay them.

There are other aspects, like the fact that private schools do not keep poorly performing kids. I certainly don't want public schools to go there, but when you compare private and charter schools to public schools, this should be in the equation. The private school my son was in kicked him out when they learned he had a learning disability (and he was not the only one).

[Hannah Bell]

45. 1) class size capped at 12.

[bobbolink]

85. They take the cream of the crop, that's what.

[Goblinmonger]

118. 2) Only take the kids of rich government workers.

How stoopid do some people have to be to not see how comparing Sidwell to ANY public school. Christ.

[bluestateguy]

8. Any other answer would have been a complete lie

I will say this, though, the DC schools are not the worst inner city schools in the US.

I think Detroit has a good claim on that title.

[geek tragedy]

9. Well, duh. Does anyone think otherwise?nt

[Autumn]

11. Well thats the truth.

Sad fucking fact. Too bad we little peons can't afford to send our kids to the best private schools. Life in a bubble.

[Kip Humphrey]

12. Solve the PS problem: match class sizes to those at Sidwell Friends

[Brickbat]

17. Similar funding-per-student ratios wouldn't hurt, either.

[EFerrari]

24. Funding our schools IS reform. n/t

[Brickbat]

30. Agreed.

[ClarkUSA]

70. That's not necessary as I have already proved here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9208790&mesg_id=9209363

[ClarkUSA]

13. Now watch Pres. Obama be demonzied here for telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Let's pretend he didn't also say, "There are "terrific individual schools" in the city, he said, and because he is president he could "probably maneuver" to get his daughters into one of them."

Let's pretend he didn't also say 'the "broader problem" is that parents without "a bunch of connections" don't have such options.'

Let's pretend didn't say 'it is "heartbreaking" that some parents have to rely on a lottery to get their children into a school that they believe will meet their needs.'

"The educational future of children "shouldn't depend on the bounce of a ball," Obama told Lauer, referring to a lottery method. "Our goal is to make all schools high-quality schools."

[Dappleganger]

15. If every one of those wealthy families enrolled their children in DC schools

you can bet the "quality" would go up right away.

Parents who do their job at home to prepare kids to learn and continue learning rub off on other parents/caregivers.

[NotThisTime]

74. Sorry, this isn't true... I have put my kids into public TWICE, two different states with the same

result... they have left after 2 years in each district to go to an Independent school like Sidwell. If I were the President, I would put my kids there, hell, I'm not the President and I'd put my kids there, I don't care if I have to mortgage the damn house to do it... thank whatever god you believe in for financial aid, because believe it or not, you can get some financial aid for these schools, yes, they still cost a lot, and yes, I'm willing to pay for it. The local schools cannot measure up no matter how ready my kids, no matter how hard I try to make it work with the administration... Three hundred family's or however many attend Sidwell are NOT going to have one bit of difference on the DC schools.

Now lets try to solve the problem. From the top all the way to the bottom, find it and fix it. So far it isn't happening....

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mfcorey1]

19. The Nassau County teacher who asked the question is from a area of the State of Florida

that is redder than anything you have ever seen. I grew up in the area of Amelia Island, Fernandina Beach, Florida. It seemed like a plant question and I thought the President handled it very well. The night before she declared that her students have few things and they live about thirty miles from the nearest walmart. She lied. In that area a walmart in with in the reach of all. In fact, there are several. She even referred to the Pres's daughters as seemingly intelligent. He should have replied that as a proud parent my children are not seemingly intelligent, but they are definitely intelligent. I will not accept low expectations. That would have shut her up/ There is discourse and there is discourse. He question was snide and meant to cause a stir.

[NoNothing]

20. What exactly is the outrage here?

Is it that the public schools are bad?

Or is it that the rich can purchase better education? Why is that a problem? Should rich parents be forced to send their children to public schools?

[SomeGuynTexas]

25. No. Yes. Wait!....No. well.....Yes. or No. Depends.

"Should rich parents be forced to send their children to public schools?"

Absolutely not. As long as the rich pay every single dime of whatever money we leave them with after taxes they can send their kids to any school they want.

If they have money left after taxes is a key point. Money left on the table is usually a bad thing.

[WinkyDink]

40. "Why is that a problem"? You don't see a problem when education of the citizenry is UNEQUAL?

[NoNothing]

51. No, not necessarily

So long as it is at least adequate for everybody. Just like I see nothing inherently wrong with some people living in big houses and some people living is little houses - so long as everyone has a roof over their heads. If someone earns their money legitimately and wants to spend it on ultra-high quality education, or health care, or housing, or scotch whiskey, then I think they should have that right unless there is good reason why not.

[blindpig]

49. Yeah, it's about the rich...

Why should they have superior access to a human right?

[ClarkUSA]

71. Ask "rich" Hillary & Bill Clinton why they sent Chelsea to Sidwell, then. Ask the Bidens, too...

.. since the Biden granddaughters go there.

[blindpig]

106. So what?

A 'D' behind ones name does not exempt one from class analysis.

Those people, while not seriously rich, are well rewarded by the owning class for their services. In their position it would not do to have the children mixing with the unwashed, they might get some funny ideas.

Private schooling is mostly about class, knowing the right people, making the right connections, not education.

[KittyWampus]

90. Not just 'rich' parents send their kids to private school.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mass]

27. He is stating the obvious. He is not saying it is fair.\nt

[babylonsister]

34. Wow. Enjoy your stay. nt

[KamaAina]

32. It's a no-win situation

if Malia and Sasha were in DC public schools, they would be pressed into service as poster children for prominent union-buster Michelle Rhee. :puke:

[hayu_lol]

36. Please note that Obama attended...

Punahou School during his high school years...not a public school.

Punahou was designed for the top elite families of Hawaii...the children of the robber barons who stole much of the islands from the native Hawaiians.

Obama did not attend a public high school.

When I lived in Honolulu(up the road a bit from Punahou)during the mid to late 50s...all students were white and rich. There were no bright Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Filipino, Portuguese, or 'other' allowed to attend.

If things get tough, he can always go play basketball with Duncan.

[KamaAina]

43. I lived one short block from Punahou

just as at the Ivy League schools for which it serves as a sort of AAA farm team, things have changed drastically since the '50s (I myself am Yale '85, for instance). "Barry" Obama P'79, who attended Punahou on a scholarship, undoubtedly helped participate in that change.

Note that many Hawai'i public school teachers send their kids to private school.

[SidDithers]

Obama attended on a scholarship?...

you mean his rich robber-baron parents didn't buy his way into this elite rich-folks school?

Sid

[KamaAina]

97. I'm thinking you left out something

like this. :sarcasm:

Obama's parents were students at UH. That's a long way from "robber barons".

[Greyhound]

47. Thanks for looking that up, it saved me the time.

As with this whole gang of these charlatans, none of them are proposing anything like the schools they attended as the model for their "reform".

Just the latest front in the class war they continue to wage against us.

[Whisp]

67. obama's mom and grandparents were 'top elites'?

:shrug:

[ClarkUSA]

77. So what? Obama attended on scholarship. His mom was on food stamps at one time fercripesakes.

He lived with his grandparents in a small apartment all his life? They were not "white and rich" nor were they "top elites".

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

83. wrong reply... self delete. (n/t)

[WinkyDink]

38. 1. Pick and choose students. 2. Not part of NCLB mandates. 3. Small class sizes. 4. Ease of non-

retension.

ET F. CETERA.

[Nevernose]

48. Those are some differences, but what are some similarities?

It's probably the same teachers using the same methods as in public schools.

A couple of other things you forgot: better funding than public schools, higher SES. And educational level of the families (people usually forget that a student spends ~90% of their time NOT in school, but with their families). Also, kids in private school usually don't have issues with truancy, crime, etc, or at least not as much.

[WinkyDink]

113. Not nearly the same teachers, though; private schools don't usually hire state-school grads.

Not knocking; I'm one. But Ivy-League creds do count for something.

[Nevernose]

123. Around here, not many Ivy Leaguers working for private schools.

And, in my experience, for many of them the Ivy League degree just means they paid more than I did. Many of the TFA people I've worked with, for instance, have been fine, well-meaning people from exceleent schools, but still lacked the content knowledge that I did (except the Dartmouth guy; the Dartmouth guy was like Rain Man for English teachers).

Also, even though the private schools around here don't attract big-name degree holders and pay substantially less than the public schools do, the jobs are highly desired and super- competitive; the total lack of need for classroom management, discipline, or beuracratic BS more than offsets lower pay for many.

[YOY]

39. Oh sweet jesus...this is beyond the fucking pale.

This is not change I want to believe in. This is not the opposite of endless war for profit. This is a fucking nightmare.

A fucking nightmare.

[ClarkUSA]

53. How so? Please explain why telling the truth "is a fucking nightmare"? Did you even read the OP?

Did you even bother to read the whole article?

Here are the highlights:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9208790&mesg_id=9208876

[YOY]

139. Oh I read it and all the wonderful articles and statements as of late and see the trend!

It's all wonderful and super-de-dooper and I just want to give the special someone who thought of it head!

Sound better? Locksteppy enough? or do I need to agree more than 100% with everything this wonderfully "left wing" and "progressive" administration throws at us to satisfy you wonderful wonderful wonderful people who are only thinking of "what is best for the party" while you attack everyone into agreement (or at least try to)?

[piratefish08]

57. don't forget to vote Dem in November!

[ClarkUSA]

65. Are you trying to get people to vote differently by your snark?

Perhaps you're at the wrong forum.

[suffragette]

42. There was an exceptional thread awhile back

about Sidwell, pointing out that several good features of its philosophy run counter to what is being pushed on public schools by the Dept of Education.

Along with money, which is a strong factor here, the philosophy behind methods is also important.

Ironic, isn't it?


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8875670#8892214

[City Lights]

44. Wow, really?

Whodda thunk? :silly:

[JVS]

50. Really? Who would have thought that?

[ecstatic]

52. welcome to DU. You'll fit in great here nt

[piratefish08]

55. oh good for you and them. way to destroy "class-ism".

i fucking give up. i surrender.

[ClarkUSA]

66. What are you talking about? How is the truth of what the POTUS said "classism"?

Did you even bother to read the story before "surrender"? :eyes:

Here, I'll tell you and save you the trouble of reading the whole article:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9208790&mesg_id=9208790

[SargeUNN]

60. again some refuse to look at the whole picture

Certainly the schools in DC are not up to the private school after decades of not paying attention to education. Obama has been in office less than 2 years so how the hell could he have brought education up to that level in such a short time and you did notice he said "NOT YET' meaning that he is going to work on changing that. I don't know if his plan is the best and honestly don't like some of his ideas on it, but reality is reality. Anyone expecting him to come in office and change it to superior status if foolhearty in thinking that.

To call him a hypocrite or such is unfair and short sighted since so much damage has been done and the forces trying to continue to ruin education are so strong, then have people on our side with such unrealistic view only makes it harder. Like I said I am not sure of how much of Obama's education plan I like, but some of it is good. Let's not help the ones that want to take education further into the hole by being too idealistic.

[craigmatic]

63. I've always been of the belief that it's not where you go to school but it's what you do with your

education. If Obama keeps on going after people who should be in his base like teachers then he's going to find himself without many friends in 2012. If a child is doing poorly in school the parents have some of the responsibility. People talk badly about Jimmy Carter but at least he cared enough about public education to send Amy to public school. And for the record they don't teach anything better at public school the parents are just more engaged because they're paying for it. That's why the studebnts do better.

[ClarkUSA]

69. Did you feel that way about the Clintons as well? Because Chelsea went to the same school.

All the Biden granddaughters do as well.

<< If Obama keeps on going after people who should be in his base like teachers then he's going to find himself without many friends in 2012.>>

Quote where he has ever gone after "teachers".

I am his base and so are the huge majority of self-described liberals who have supported him since he became president. In fact, since he has started campaigning this past month, polls have shown he is more popular than ever, certainly more popular than Regan or Clinton at this time in their presidencies.

[craigmatic]

80. Yeah I did feel that way about the Clintons and any public official who sends their child to

private school. It just sends the wrong message. He went after teachers when he said that 2000 public schools around the country are failing and advocating for charter schools where the unions are weaker. If he keeps pushing for these charter schools all that's going to happen is that the smart students will go there leaving the below averge students in public schools to bring down standardized test scores and that'll make the problem seem worse so they'll advocate more cuts or even abolishing the public system all together. This is really what bush's education policy was. I'm an education major by the way. I talk to all kinds of teachers during my observations and the ones who would otherwise be democrats are getting upset with some of the ideas Obama is pushing for.

[ClarkUSA]

91. Well, the Obamas could've have pulled strings and sent their daughters to a good DC school.

But they probably didn't want the inevitable favoritism charges lobbed at them by the usual malcontents.

<< If he keeps pushing for these charter schools all that's going to happen is that the smart students will go there leaving the below averge students in public schools to bring down standardized test scores and that'll make the problem seem worse so they'll advocate more cuts or even abolishing the public system all together. >>

Um, charter schools are also public schools. Your doomsday scenario seems rather unlikely to me, given there are very few charter schools and very many students. Also, not all charter schools are good, nor are all other public schools bad. And I know many teachers who are very grateful to the Obama administration for saving their jobs. Dozens of them volunteer to GOTV with our local area OFA groups every week because they are solid pro-Obama Democrats who don't want to go back to the Bush era if Republicans win back Congress in November.

[craigmatic]

98. That justification for why they didn't send their kids to public schools

is a very weak argument both politically and in terms of actual function. It shows that they care more about what repubs would say about them rather than what liberals think. Favoratism wouldn't even come into play when you think about it because if there would be favoratism in public schools why wouldn't there also be favortism in private schools? The incentive is there in both places. It's probably greater in private school because they pay for it. There are very few charter schools now but the administration wants more. Charter schools are to public schools as ketchup is to tomatoes. Sure some of the ingredients are the same but ultimately it's not the samething. Obama advocates them and if a repub is in office next they'll speed up the process and either build more charter schools or convert public schools to charter because they want to break the unions. There is one big difference between regular public school and a charter school- the unions are stronger in regular public schools where as administration has more power in a charter school and the teachers' pay isn't neccessarily the same as it would be in a regular public school. Some times it's more but more often than not the pay is less. Private schools are roughly the same problem around here (GA/AL) the average teacher salary in private school is $12,000 you can work at Mcdonald's and get that much (it may be more in D.C.). Call me paranoid by this is where I think they want to take education long term.

[ClarkUSA]

103. Favoritism because you are the POTUS sends a wrong message. It's also elitist to ask for any.

<< Call me paranoid by this is where I think they want to take education long term. >>

We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think there's any evidence that points to your claim.

Anyway, thanks for keeping it civil.

[msanthrope]

111. Why shouldn't public officials be allowed to send their kids to religious schools? n/t

[craigmatic]

140. They can but if they're in charge of education policy and do it, it makes them look foolish.

[bobbolink]

87. Great! Fine post!

Fits in very well with RW thought.

Very well expressed for that mindset.

[craigmatic]

99. Hi Bobbolink. How are you today?

[slackmaster]

64. Kudos to him for being a good parent, and providing his children with the best available opportunity

:toast:

[shanti]

68. you get what you pay for n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

72. Christine O'Donnell: "I Think We Can Stop The Country From Having Sex"

I just wanted to add that. Have you heard her? She's bat-shit fucking nuts.

[Skidmore]

75. Cue my

orchestra with it's tiny violins. Sorry the outrage express pulled out without me on it.

[Bluebear]

76. Lovely. nt

[ClarkUSA]

79. Yes, it's "lovely" to have a President who tells the truth and wants better for DC schools.

Here, I'll save you the trouble of reading the whole article by noting the highlights of what he said:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9208790&mesg_id=9208790

[cemaphonic]

78. DC is also going to be a pretty extreme example, because the socioeconomic gap is so huge there.

DC has some of the richest and most connected people in the country living in a city with poverty and other social conditions that are among the worst in the country. So the ultra-elite schools there are going to vastly outpace the worst of the public schools.

Jump the border to Fairfax county, and you have a huge population of middle class military and federal employees that value education, but aren't rich enough to all send their kids to private school, and the gap is much smaller.

[ClarkUSA]

81. That's true. My cousin and his young family live there. He's not wealthy, either.

He has a 9-5 office job while she's a SAHM. However, he and his wife are getting ready to send their oldest to a private school because she is Argentinian and they want him to attend a Spanish immersion school.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

84. Good for him... He can afford the best for his children and I think it's just fine.

There will always be a premium option in any market. Even school systems.

I attended public and private schools... the difference was night and day. I felt it had more to do with the discipline and student's upbringing more so than facilities and teaching styles.

I don't fault him for spending more on his kids' education. If more Americans felt the way Obama does maybe they'd pass some damn school levies once and awhile and the average kid in America would have a more valuable education too.

[WinkyDink]

114. Surely you jest, re: "more so than facilities." And when every parent expects their kid to continue

the "legacy," you get motivated students (even if it's just to not get cut from the will).

[SidDithers]

92. ...

Sid

[Taitertots]

95. As long as we allow the rich to send their children to private education they will continue to....

Undermine the public school system.

Send all the politician's and other rich people's children to public schools and watch how fast the schools get better.

[ClarkUSA]

96. Do you have any proof that only "the rich... send their children to private education"?

<< As long as we allow the rich to send their children to private education they will continue to.... Undermine the public school system.>>

So going along with your line of thinking, shall we also get rid of all private universities as well? Perhaps private hospitals should go, too?

[Taitertots]

101. Yes, we should abolish the for-profit health care system, universities, and K-12 education

The only way to ensure the people in power share the concerns of those without power is to force those concerns upon them.

"Do you have any proof that only "the rich... send their children to private education"
Why would I? I didn't say that, you conjured that up all by yourself.

[ClarkUSA]

105. "abolish... force"? Hmm.. it seem you are describing a totalitarian communist state.

<< The only way to ensure the people in power share the concerns of those without power is to force those concerns upon them.>>

Uh, so you favor a communist dictatorship that will "force those concerns" and "abolish" all capitalist public institutions as well as "K-12 education" in the United States?

[EFerrari]

109. LOL. You are confusing a totalitarian state with a representative one.

Gee, what a surprise. :)

[WinkyDink]

115. Not heard of Scandinavia?

[sabrina 1]

119. I don't favor any dictatorship. However, when

politicians decide that the poor quality of education in the public schools is the fault of teachers, then they better be able to prove that the schools that are failing have the same conditions as those that are not.

I have no problem with what Obama said about his reasons for choosing private school for his children. In fact, if he would apply his thinking about his own children and the school he has chosen for them, he might be able to see why NCLB, which he is pushing, is such a failure for the nations children.

My problem with him is that his administration doesn't seem to care about the teachers who dedicate their lives to working in some of the country's worst districts where children come often from homes so poor they do not even eat three meals a day. Or many are from drug-addicted and/or violent homes etc. Some come from homes where their parents are incarcerated.

And again, many others have learning disabilities and/or physical disabilities. Then add to those factors, the lack of funding to even buy books, which many teachers end up buying themselves, and explain why this administration has conducted a war on teachers without having a clue, or even caring about the conditions under which they are expected to work.

Teachers have to work under these conditions. I would like to take a few of the teachers from Sidwell and put them in those conditions and see whether they get the same results they get in the environment they now teach in.

The War on Teachers is the problem, not where anyone chooses to send their children. And how that war will NOT improve the educational system. And the taking of public funds and handing them over to for-profit organizations as middle-men to deal with this country's educational problems.

He is on the wrong track as far as the system of education goes, even more so than Bush was. But then, maybe presidents are just figure-heads in this country now and have no real power. Because what he is doing and he said he would be doing in the campaign re education, are two very different things.

[Taitertots]

127. Just like those totalitarian Canadians with their communist health care system

"Uh, so you favor a communist dictatorship that will "force those concerns" and "abolish" all capitalist public institutions as well as "K-12 education" in the United States?"
Uh, so you favor hallucinating that I said anything even remotely similar to that.

[msanthrope]

112. why shouldn't parents be allowed to send their children to religious schools of their choice? n/t

[WinkyDink]

116. I don't think the context for this thread is parochial schools.

[msanthrope]

117. Really??? Sidwell is a religious school. Why shouldn't the President

send his children to a school where they will receive religious instruction?

[Taitertots]

125. He can send them there after they go to public school

Or on the weekend.

Why shouldn't the vast majority of Americans have access to the same quality education those with wealth and influence have?

[msanthrope]

128. You are showing your bias for a particular type of religious education.

You don't get to decide what is appropriate religious education for others. Your statement also reveals your ignorance of Friends schooling and faith.

The Obama girls are children--not political pawns whose schooling must conform to some ideology set by people who aren't their parents.

[Taitertots]

142. All I have is a bias toward non-religious public education

People are free to pursue whatever additional religious education they please.

"The Obama girls are children--not political pawns whose schooling must conform to some ideology set by people who aren't their parents"
They are just going to get an exceptional education. One that isn't available to the vast majority of American children because we preserve a system that can produce only vast inequality.

"political pawns" is a meaningless statement. What they are is a clear example that those in power have no intention of making sure that there is any sort of inequality in education.

[chimpymustgo]

149. It's a Quaker school. They don't have chapel, they have contemplation.

[Taitertots]

126. They can get whatever religious instruction they want after school

What about the parents that want the choice to have the same quality education our representatives have? Or is choice only something reserved for the wealthy?

[maryf]

110. "The answer is no right now,"...

and worse when his buddy Arne gets done with the public education system...

[mix]

121. A man of the people. nt

[Mefistofeles]

124. This will certainly motivate public-school teachers to vote in November

Yup. It sure will.

[scheming daemons]

137. Umm... "welcome to DU".... pepperoni or mushrooms?

[proud2BlibKansan]

131. At least he gave an honest answer

That's something.

[inna]

134. true.

[scheming daemons]

136. They're at Sidwell only because of Secret Service concerns

Sidwell is equipped to deal with the kind of protection a Presidential offspring requires.


In any case, he's right about DC schools.


If he said anything different, then there'd be snarky posts on here about how he's lying.


Don't worry, President Obama. Keep telling the truth and let the idiot brigade here on DU bash you for it.

[quaker bill]

145. and it is a really good school

Friends Schools generally are very good, but then we kind of pioneered the concept of racially diverse coeducational schools.

[spanone]

138. i like honesty from our President.

[ibegurpard]

141. No shit

D.C. is a poor community with no tax base and all of the social problems that come along with that.
you want to address those problems?
the schools will then fix themselves.

[Rex]

143. That is no surprise, the best educations cost money. Is Obama just now learning these things?

I kid, he knows them all to well.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

144. Of course this is the case, and the people criticising him for it are, frankly, being stupid.

The more money you spend on educating children, the better the outcome is likely to be. It's by no means the only factor, of course, but a child educated in a group of five with lots of textbooks will, on average, do better than a child educated in a group of thirty with fewer textbooks by a teacher of comparable quality.

This effect *does* cap out if you spend enough money, but that involves spending far more money than is feasible - you'd be looking at employing about one teacher per five pupils, with each teacher having received many years training, and a lot of expensive textbooks, IT resources, specialists in special needs and the like.

So the slogan "the best possible education for every child" is an absurd one (hell, if nothing else, consider streaming/setting, which clearly benefits some children and disadvantages others).

What the state should do is provide a decent* quality of education for all.

If private individuals then choose to spend money on getting an education better than that for their own child, that's entirely reasonable. The maximum standard of education the state can consistently provide must be higher than the minimum standard of education I would be willing to settle for for my child if no alternative presented itself, but it's never going to reach the level at which I would stop wanting a better education for them if possible (and, come to that, nor are almost all fee-paying schools).



If you object to Obama sending his children to private schools, you're essentially endorsing one of two positions: either a) obtaining an education for your children better than the one the state is able to provide is morally wrong for anyone, or b) Obama should set an example by not getting his children the best education he can. I think these are both absurd.



*I define "a decent standard of education" as "the best quality that can be provided by the state by spending an amount of money such that if it spend more the cost would outweigh the benefit". I think there is little doubt that American education spending is well short of this point, and that Obama should be trying to reverse this, but to suggest that his children should be held hostage to this is, in my view, wicked. Crucially, there is no such thing as "good enough" in education, just "better" and "worse" - the idea that "what's good enough for us is good enough for him" is nonsense because no attainable standard of education is good enough.

[EFerrari]

147. "The more money you spend on educating children, the better the outcome is likely to be.."

Well, see, that is the thing. As I said up thread, yesterday the president said that "throwing money" at our schools is not a solution AND he throws more than $30K a year per kid at his daughters' school.

It's not that he shouldn't give his daughters the very best education that he can buy. His daughters also shouldn't be dragged into political debates.

But, it is a problem when he seems to believe his daughters' school deserves to be funded but that public schools won't benefit from similar funding. I don't recall any other Democrat talking about "throwing money" at our schools. That's a right wing, Republican figure of speech. Typically, Democrats have been pro-education and speak of "funding our schools".

[laughingliberal]

151. +1000 nt