Who do you think is most likely to be honest with you about the educational needs of our kids?

[Fumesucker]

In other words, who is least likely in your opinion to have an ulterior motive beyond simply making sure that our kids have what they need to succeed in school?

[lumberjack_jeff]

1. Where's the choice for "parents"? n/t

[Mass]

3. Thanks. This is what I was thinking too.

[Fumesucker]

7. Good point.. I added Parents..

Although their input seems to be even less desired than that of teachers in the current "debate"..

[Mass]

2. Most honest, probably teachers. This said, they all have an agenda that is not necessarily in my kid

's favor.

[Greyhound]

8. Yeah all those people that go into education for the glamor and the Really Big Bucks!

Or is it the unreasonable desire to make a decent, secure living in exchange for dedicating one's life to helping other people's children?

[Mass]

15. I never said they were in it for the money. I also think they will be more honest

than the other categories quoted there. This said, it also depends what educational needs are. This is a vague term, and, as such, I think some may have a point of view that is not in the best interest of a child (or they may be wrong about it).

I have known some wonderful teachers (those led my son to make big progress in his educational needs) and I have known some who, without my insistence, would have sent my son in a classroom where he would have been given a dumbed-down education out of the mainstream. Allow me to think that the second category did not have my son's educational needs at heart.

[Greyhound]

18. That is true, and it is the inevitable result of devaluing what teachers do.

The straight-jacket of 'approved curricula' aside, this shameful state of the profession attracts only two types, those with "a calling" who would teach for free because it's what they must do, and those with few options.

As I and others have pointed out in many of these threads, the 'how to' of a good education is well known. All of this controversy is simply a way to turn education into a corporate revenue stream.

[Mass]

19. I totally agree with what you are saying.\nt

[Throd]

4. Involved parents

[el_bryanto]

5. I'm surprised you didn't include teacher's unions

Seem like an obvious one.

Bryant

[Fumesucker]

9. That would be covered under "Teachers"..

I believe most teachers are unionized in the USA.

[el_bryanto]

16. I don't think that works. Your local teachers might have one opinion

While the union might have a different idea. Particularly when it comes to systematic changes like removing tenure and the like. That's not to say that the teacher's union is wrong; they just have their own point of view.

Bryant

[mike_c]

17. I can't speak for others, but my union IS me and my colleagues....

My union isn't some outside organization with opinions and agendas that conflict with the "rank and file." We ARE the union. The president and most officers are elected from the chapter ranks, serve for a time, then return or retire.

When I want the union's opinion, I ask my colleagues.

[el_bryanto]

26. Is that the norm though?

The California Federation of Teachers represents 120,000 members for example, according to their website (http://www.cft.org/index.php/at-a-glance.html), and the California Teachers Association has 370,00 members

The Florida Education Association represents around 137,000 members --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Education_Association (the organizations website is here, but couldn't find the stats quickly on it (http://feaweb.org/).

Those are some big unions. Again I'm not saying they are a negative influence (far from it in most cases) just saying they are an influence, seperate from your children's teacher.

Bryant

[NoNothing]

6. Missing option: scientists

Teachers may or may not have their own set of motivations for teaching a certain way. I would rather defer to the findings of scientists who study learning and human development.

[Fumesucker]

10. Good point.. I added that option..

[hayu_lol]

14. Neither administrators nor scientists...

are on the frontlines of our educational process--TEACHERS ARE!

Since most adult family members work, they are not available to volunteer to help take up the burden in our schools. Schools used to be crowded with family members helping out.

Teachers should be teaching, not being hallway proctors or schoolyard guards or parking area policemen.

[EFerrari]

22. Scientists draw paychecks so their work is not above the agenda

of their funders, either.

[On the Road]

11. Everybody Has an Ulterior Motive

It doesn't reflect whether the opinion is sound. People see the world different ways, and not all of them have merit. A better question is which group has the best recommendations (although there is lot conflicting opinion within each group.)

Of all the groups you listed, the one with the least ulterior motive is probably corporate CEOs -- not that they have the best recommendations. (And no, that one vote is not mine.)

[JVS]

12. I don't think there are any good sources.

While I don't ascribe any malice to teachers or administrators, asking them to predict the future is a bit much and they have more immediate problems to deal with than attempting prognostication.

Politicians need things that are fast, cheap, and easy to capitalize upon politically. I don't trust them a but.

Business leaders could perhaps speak intelligently upon this issue, as they are the ones who will be making the decisions that create the working conditions of tomorrow. Unfortunately, their track record has been far from helpful, as they repeatedly tell each new generation that they must be prepared for ever less stable employment situations and have a diverse skill set. Creating such work environments effectively punishes those who learn with the goal of expertise in a certain area.

[Uncle Joe]

13. I will consult a doctor if I have medical needs.

I will consult a politician if I have political needs.
I will consult the CEO of a major corporation if I have business needs.
I will consult a lawyer if I have legal needs.
I will consult a plumber if I have plumbing needs.
I will consult an electrician if I have electrical needs.
I will consult my girlfriend if I have administration needs.
I will consult a teacher if I or my child have educational needs.


Thanks for the thread, Fumesucker.

[Newest Reality]

20. We might take into account

the nature and impact of the immense change and upheaval we see on so many fronts, as well.

In other words, considering the impact of economy, ecology, technology, politics, etc., what kind of future are we educating kids for? It seems ludicrous to prepare children to enter a society that is currently in chaos and decay with the methodology of a paradigm that is now obviously in crisis. It is rather difficult to imagine what kind of future we are going to offer graduates in years to come.

The mass-education process has been argued to be a course of decades of "dumbing down", generally. Curiously, the diminishing educational standards appear to have served well in producing large numbers of students that have been educated in a "just enough" fashion to fill the needs of the low-paying, low-opportunity service industries as they have expanded over time.

While we can't necessarily predict the future and outcomes of where we are now, there is education for its own sake, (the value of learning and knowing that inculcates greater interest and enjoyment) that is provided as a sound springboard of diversity for students to work from, (rather than the conformity and standards that dominate the curriculum in a very suspect way these days).

Oh, that's a pipe dream. Expanding the mental horizons and capacities of greater swaths of students in an educational system runs counter to the needs of the system and its Captains, currently. Obviously, there is an immense amount of room for viable additions and options from critical thinking to trades and even involving currently outmoded skills that were lost during the transition to industrial and technological dependence.

[joeybee12]

21. Corp. CEO's up to two votes...so we've got either two smart-asses

or two freepers.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. H.L. Mencken

"And what is a good citizen? Simply one who never says, does or thinks anything that is unusual. Schools are maintained in order to bring this uniformity up to the highest possible point. A school is a hopper into which children are heaved while they are still young and tender; therein they are pressed into certain standard shapes and covered from head to heels with official rubber-stamps." H.L. Mencken

[Fumesucker]

25. Heh... I have to say that I can't disagree with the Sage of Baltimore..

But something has to be done to civilize the little hellions.. :)

[One_Life_To_Give]

24. Teachers?

Sorry Teachers but I have yet to meet the teacher willing to toss their career and tell the parents. That the first problem is for the parent to look in the mirror. Not that you are alone, the politicians are right alongside.

[LeftishBrit]

27. Any of the last three

They may not always be right (and parents in particular may often be judging from a very small and biased sample), but they would usually be sincere.

Politicians and corporate administrators, however, are likely to be out for profit/votes/ideology. Most of them have not been teachers, and at least in Britain, many of them probably have little experience of the state school system even for themselves or their kids - richer people often use expensive private schools, or at best are able to live in neighbourhoods where the state schools are sheltered from many problems that are common elsewhere.

[Fumesucker]

28. Interesting that not a single person picked "politicians" or "school administrators"..

And yet those are the ones overwhelmingly driving "school reform" right now and the most trusted groups have little to no say in those reforms.

[Jack_DeLeon]

29. Where is the option for students?

The ones who are actually interesting in learning, you know the ones we should be focusing on and leaving the rest who dont behind, are probably the ones that got the best view about whats going on.