Fascism is fascism...

[txaslftist]

When you take it upon yourself to decide who lives and who dies outside of the judicial process and outside of any review process, you are deciding who are the "enemies of the state" and you are acting like a fascist, whether you are a Democrat or a Republican or some other party.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9204263

When you expand the authority of the arm of the state to monitor the conversations and public speech of the citizenry, you are acting like a fascist, whether it's the internet, or the activities of a peace organization. When you harass those with views that run contrary to yours, and you use government agents to do it, you are acting like a fascist.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9207743

There are a lot of other things that define fascism, but some of them are debatable. Let's don't pretend that these ones are. If you want to defend these things as "necessary" or "part of the job of government", that's fine, too.

But understand what you are sticking up for.

[asdjrocky]

1. Exactly.

I wonder what, if anything, historians will say our form of government really was in the early 21st century.

[txaslftist]

2. By then they will have new words.

"fascism" will be an archaic term.

[txaslftist]

3. and of course you are assuming...

that historians will be allowed to call it what they will. It may just be some term devised by their government minders. "Representative Utopia"

[Deep13]

4. My Momma always said fascist is as fascist does.

[txaslftist]

5. LOL.

Great graphic.

[COLGATE4]

6. Historians will simply coin a new term to describe it -

'Fascism' is so twentieth century.

[txaslftist]

7. and this ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9208071

[disillusioned73]

8. Is DU having an identity crisis??

I fail to even comprehend how fascism has found defenders on this sight - sad..

[txaslftist]

9. It's the leader principle...

one of the cornerstones of fascism.

[defendandprotect]

17. Interesting .... n/t

[Greyhound]

10. Same as it ever was. K&R. n/t

[OnyxCollie]

11. K&R. nt

[TBF]

12. K&R

[txaslftist]

13. scary book...

or was it a play? I can't remember. I think the characters in the book would have felt like it was coming on here.

[TBF]

14. It is both a book and a play. nt

[txaslftist]

15. Have you read Meyer's "They Thought They Were Free ...

The Germans 1939 to 1945"?

Hell of a good book.

[TBF]

16. I haven't - thank you for the recommendation.

I will look for it. :)

[txaslftist]

19. Sure thing.

You can google "they thought they were free" and find selected exerpts from the prologue for free.

[newthinking]

33. Erie..."What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people

"What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could not understand it, it could not be released because of national security.

[txaslftist]

34. I know, right?

I first got into the book during the Bush administration, and it was so apropos it was chilling.

[beforeyoureyes]

18. Amen....it doesn't matter the letter after politicians name either

Action and policy over party and politician.

Deeds not words

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

20. crying wolf is crying wolf.

[txaslftist]

21. From: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans 1939-1945:

"...you speak privately to your colleagues, some of whom certainly feel as you do; but what do they say? They say, ‘It’s not so bad’ or ‘You’re seeing things’ or ‘YOU'RE AN ALARMIST.’(emphasis added)

"And you are an alarmist. You are saying that this must lead to this, and you can’t prove it. These are the beginnings, yes; but how do you know for sure when you don’t know the end, and how do you know, or even surmise, the end? On the one hand, your enemies, the law, the regime, the Party, intimidate you. On the other, your colleagues pooh-pooh you as pessimistic or even neurotic. You are left with your close friends, who are, naturally, people who have always thought as you have.

"But your friends are fewer now. Some have drifted off somewhere or submerged themselves in their work. You no longer see as many as you did at meetings or gatherings. Informal groups become smaller; attendance drops off in little organizations, and the organizations themselves wither. Now, in small gatherings of your oldest friends, you feel that you are talking to yourselves, that you are isolated from the reality of things. This weakens your confidence still further and serves as a further deterrent to—to what? It is clearer all the time that, if you are going to do anything, you must make an occasion to do it, and then you are obviously a troublemaker. So you wait, and you wait.

"But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That’s the difficulty. If the last and worst act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficiently shocked—if, let us say, the gassing of the Jews in ’43 had come immediately after the ‘German Firm’ stickers on the windows of non-Jewish shops in ’33. But of course this isn’t the way it happens.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

23. From a Glen Beck rally.

[txaslftist]

25. Oh ... Like that's something new.

http://www.funatiq.com/not-so-funny/george-w-bush-as-adolf-hitler/

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

26. So what you're saying is Obama = Bush = Hitler.

[txaslftist]

27. I'm saying I'm not shocked.

At Beck's people having posters comparing Obama to Hitler. We did the same thing.

What did shock me was finding out that Obama ordered the extrajudicial assassination of a US Citizen, frankly I was surprised at his ordering the extrajudicial assassination of anyone.

I am also fairly surprised to see so many folks apologizing on his behalf for doing it.

[wuvuj]

37. Same military...same police state?

...

[txaslftist]

38. Maybe.

It's hard to say, which makes it hard to predict what's coming.

[maryf]

36. this one too

"This separation of government from people, this widening of the gap, took place so gradually and so insensibly, each step disguised (perhaps not even intentionally) as a temporary emergency measure or associated with true patriotic allegiance or with real social purposes. And all the crises and reforms (real reforms, too) so occupied the people that they did not see the slow motion underneath, of the whole process of government growing remoter and remoter."


thanks for a great resource, and K&R this OP!

[txaslftist]

40. It is a pretty prophetic book.

I read the prologue, then bought it, but then I loaned it to someone else so I don't have my copy anymore. It's a hard book to find. I had to wait several weeks for a copy from Barnes and Noble.

[txaslftist]

22. Better to cry wolf

than to do nothing.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

24. Um, no it's not.

[txaslftist]

31. It sure has heck is.

When the wolf you are crying about is extrajudicial killing or the targeting of peaceful activists for intimidation and arrest...

I criticized Bush for the same things, I sure am not going to give Obama a pass.

[woo me with science]

28. There is a frightening acceptance of fascistic tactics here on DU.

It was also clearly evident in the threads about Koran burning. Many here seem perfectly willing to allow government silencing of all sorts of expression just because it is offensive, insensitive, or politically incorrect.

We have a serious problem when even the most politically aware citizens of this country can't see past the emotional satisfaction of shutting up someone they detest, to recognize the inherent dangers of allowing such silencing.

I may hate what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Maybe the new egregious attacks on privacy and due process will finally begin to wake people up. I hope so.

We need a national civics lesson and a renewed commitment to civics education. It is a problem when presumably educated people don't even seem to understand what their own Constitution means, or why it is important.

[txaslftist]

29. It's a problem when a constitutional law prof

doesn't get it, especially when he is in the White House.

When the FBI labels peaceniks as terrorists or potential terrorists and goes after them with NSA letters... yikes. And they work for the pres, so there's really no dodging that one.

As for the folks who think I shouldn't be criticizing the prez, well, I voted for him. Also, one of the differences between DU and FR (and Democrats and Republicans generally) is that we criticize our folks when they screw up.

Obama more than anyone should know the danger of setting these kinds of precedents.

[Panaconda]

30. Yep

K&R

[Octafish]

32. As much as the serial killer who entices another victim into his cargo van...

...the nation that engages in war for no reason, or for the extrajudicial execution of its own citizens, is guilty of murder.

George Bush said it best: "Money trumps peace. Eh. Sometimes."

[glitch]

35. K & fing R nt

[annm4peace]

39. Thank you! Poeple need to step out of their comfort zones

as someone who is still a member of Peace Fresno, but now lives in Minneapolis and who's friends houses are raided..

I wish people would say to NO to the fascism and join Social Justice and Peace groups to push back the fascism.

and call their Represenatives and Senators to condemn the actions of the FBI.

[txaslftist]

41. I think as the risk of sactions for peace activities increases...

the importance of them increases as well. Thanks for your work in this important cause.