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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 07:37 AM
Original message
Dead babies: a rant
Edited on Tue Sep-28-10 08:10 AM by Jeffersons Ghost
They call it collateral damage when civilians die in a military operation. And US drones cause plenty of this type of damage. It's like some ghastly video game for the CIA. In this game, however, real people die. Drones are indiscriminate killers.

If a drone killed your children, would you become an insurgent? These spooky war-toys breed terrorism.


C.I.A. Steps Up Drone Attacks in Pakistan to Thwart Taliban
By MARK MAZZETTI and ERIC SCHMITT
Published: September 27, 2010

WASHINGTON — The C.I.A. has drastically increased its bombing campaign in the mountains of Pakistan in recent weeks, American officials said. The strikes are part of an effort by military and intelligence operatives to try to cripple the Taliban in a stronghold being used to plan attacks against American troops in Afghanistan.

As part of its covert war in the region, the C.I.A. has launched 20 attacks with armed drone aircraft thus far in September, the most ever during a single month, and more than twice the number in a typical month. This expanded air campaign comes as top officials are racing to stem the rise of American casualties before the Obama administration’s comprehensive review of its Afghanistan strategy set for December. American and European officials are also evaluating reports of possible terrorist plots in the West from militants based in Pakistan.

The strikes also reflect mounting frustration both in Afghanistan and the United States that Pakistan’s government has not been aggressive enough in dislodging militants from their bases in the country’s western mountains. In particular, the officials said, the Americans believe the Pakistanis are unlikely to launch military operations inside North Waziristan, a haven for Taliban and Qaeda operatives that has long been used as a base for attacks against troops in Afghanistan.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/28/world/asia/28drones.html?_r=1&ref=global-home


U.S. drone attack in Pakistan kills 13 militants, 7 civilians


Missiles fired from a U.S. drone aircraft killed 13 militants and seven civilians in Pakistan's North Waziristan region Monday, Pakistani intelligence officials said.

They said the missiles were fired at a militant hideout. Most of the militants killed were members of the Afghan Taliban, the officials said, but four women and three children were also among the dead.

"The missiles hit a militant compound and a house adjacent to it. We have confirmed reports of 20 dead," said one of the intelligence officials.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/23/AR2010082305107.html
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
1. Do you need more news on drones? Here it is...
September 27, 2010 9:52 PM PDT
CIA allegedly bought flawed software for attacks


The CIA allegedly purchased flawed targeting software for drone missile attacks on suspected terrorists--software it knew was faulty, and that could misdirect attacks by as much as 39 feet--according to a report in The Register based on claims made in a lawsuit.

The suit, filed by a Massachusetts-based company called Intelligent Integration Systems (IISI), involves another Massachusetts company, Netezza, The Register said in its report today. Netezza, a data warehousing company IBM has made a bid to buy, allegedly got a $1.18 million purchase order from the CIA last year to provide data warehouse appliances for use in drones, according to The Register. When combined with IISI's "Geospatial" software, the devices can be used to track movement of cell phones and pinpoint peoples' exact locations in real time, The Register said.


Read more: http://news.cnet.com/8301-27080_3-20017809-245.html#ixzz10pR4lAJM
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peace13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
2. To say nothing of the people sitting in the US operating the things.
I can't imagine killing folks all day with drones and computer 'games' then heading home to have dinner with the fam. There are going to be some real problems with these individuals. This nation is going to be short of psychiatrists in the near future.
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. I see your point and agree
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. Roger Waters called it
"The Bravery Of Being Out Of Range".

It was written about the first Gulf War but it is eerily prescient.

It's on his Amused To Death album...
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. How are they different then pilots?
Pilots and flight crews complete missions using deadly force without seeing their targets with their own eyes.

How disturbed are they by the group?

What about sub crews?

The 5,000 people on an aircraft carrier who never see the people they're fighting?
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peace13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. To my knowledge sub crews do not go to their home at night.
I would imagine pilots on missions land at a base other than that near there homes. These people kill, yes, but they are in a war like situation. These drone drivers are in an office in the US or some other safe haven. Day job is to shoot to kill. Night job is to stop the baby from crying and cleaning up after the dog. I think there would be a hard disconnect.
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
3. Catch Holbrooke on Rachel last night? "We could hit your producers over there and we'd be fine."
The man's main talent seems to be lying with absolute conviction.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. It's just as bad if he believes it...
The fantasy of omnipotent murder. (I happened to see the piece.) Ain't that cool, I could kill people right on that spot with impunity, and you'd be fine!

I think there was a happy sense of intimidation in it, too. Not that he's making a threat to the producers, god no, but taking fun in playing it out.

If you remember, in Yugoslavia they did bomb a TV station.
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I caught the subliminal threat as well. The fascist's ultimate fantasy. Instant, risk-free murder.

Like the little button in the Evil Captain Kirk's cabin. He could just find someone on the little viewscreen, press a button ... and zap! But of course, we can trust the CIA to only secretly kill "bad people." They're known for their scruples. Er.
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I detect a note of sarcasm
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Sarcastic as in "caustic?" Yes. But not facetious or unserious as is sometimes meant by that term.
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. you appear to have a great vocabulary
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. 8) And yeah, "trusting the CIA" was both sarcastic and facetious. Wasn't thinking of that.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. Holbrooke on Maddow show also covered at this link...
http://counterpunch.org/ehrenpreis09292010.html

September 29, 2010
Holbrooke's Hypocrisy on Drones

By BRIAN EHRENPREIS

"It's such a precise weapon, the Predator, that if they were aiming at your producers over there,” Richard Holbrooke, the Obama administrations special representative to Afganistan and Pakistan intoned to a skeptical Rachel Maddow on Monday, “you and I could continue our conversation. It’s very very small; does that not appeal to you, that idea?” Holbrooke’s excitement about the drone program is just the most recent public example of how drones are viewed privately by current Washington policy makers.

Our policy elites considers drones to be politically positive; as they reduce the number of troop casualties, fiscally responsible; being many times cheaper to purchase than manned fighter jets, and militarily effective; allowing the military to push deeper and deeper into sovereign states such as Pakistan without needing a declaration of war. Because of all these seemingly positive factors, the drone program has not engendered very much serious critical discourse amongst our elected officials. Holbrooke was correct to assert the accuracy of unmanned drones, notwithstanding the bizarre quip that he and Rachel could continue their conversation unimpeded even if a hellfire missile were to be fired at their producer several feet away, though this admission does require some examination. Drones are the most accurate weapon on the field of battle today, unquestionably, but what does require questioning is Holbrooke’s logic when faced with the reality of the drone program.

On January 23rd, 2009 newly sworn in President Barack Obama on only his third day in office gave the authorization for his second drone strike of the day in Pakistan. The first bombing of the day seemed to be a success with 20 suspected militants incinerated in a house near the town of Mirali in North Waziristan,<1> a long suspected bastion of Al-Qaeda affiliated militants. The second bombing President Obama authorized targeted the incorrect house, killing a South-Waziristan pro-government tribal leader and his entire family, including his three children, one of whom was only five years old.<2> This sort of pattern is entirely typical of the drone program, a program which is characterized above all else by its incredibly high rate of civilian casualties. According to a study by Peter Bergen and Katherine Tiedemann for the New America Foundation, about one in three persons killed by drone strikes in Pakistan from 2004 to 2010 has been a civilian. The authors of the study further tell us that of the 114 reported drone strikes in the northwest part of Pakistan from 2004 to 2010 somewhere between 830 and 1,210 people were killed, only 550 to 850 of whom were militants. Shocking as this is, Bergen and Tiedemann conclude that the true civilian fatality rate of the drone program from 2004 to the present has been has been approximately 32 percent.<3> While the knowledge that 32 percent of all people killed in drone strikes in Pakistan have been civilians is disturbing, the figure grows even more disturbing when it becomes clear that this data is indicative of a larger general trend. The majority of the data from the study actually comes from the Obama administrations reported drone operations in Pakistan from 2009, which numbered 51 strikes in total.<4> The rest of the data is culled from operations spanning the entire tenure of George W. Bush whose strikes numbered 45 in total, making clear that in the year 2009 alone the Obama administration carried out more drone operations than George W. Bush did during his entire presidency.<5>

Legally, ethically, and structurally, the more you see, the more you are responsible for. Drones, in allowing unprecedented levels of visual accuracy should also significantly raise the burden of responsibility on their operators for their actions; the problem is this hasn’t happened. Civilian casualties continue to mount at unacceptable levels and legal and political accountability has not kept pace. Human Rights Watch in a report on Israel’s use of drones in its Gaza offensive note that “drones, much like sniper rifles, are only as good at sparing civilians as the care taken by the people who operate them. The accuracy and concentrated blast radius of the missile can reduce civilian casualties, but in Gaza, Israel’s targeting choices led to the loss of many civilian lives.”<6> The incredible technological capabilities that allow drones to target and kill with such precision is precisely that which serves to reify the onus of responsibility on their operators and commanding officers for a mistake made. When Richard Holbrooke speaks of the devastating accuracy of the drone, he should be held to account for exactly that. If the drone system is so accurate why are so many civilians being eviscerated, almost daily by drone missiles in Pakistan? What does it tell us about our political and military leadership when they can go on a popular news hour and boast of only a 32 percent civilian casualty rate?

Someone should ask Richard Holbrooke, why such a staggering percentage of civilian casualties is morally acceptable to him. Holbrooke continued his justification of the drone program by saying that “ planes flying low having to make judgment calls in an instant, close-air support, that’s where mistakes can happen, that horrible thing in Kunduz where they blew up the tanks and 140 people got killed in the German area, none of that happens with this vehicle.” What Holbrooke is saying here is just factually incorrect. Drones may be much more accurate than a manned bomber plane or fighter jet, but it does not mean that mistakes such as Kunduz bombing, where 142 civilians were killed, become more infrequent. Distressingly, quite the opposite has occurred as civilian casualties have been increasing, just as political and moral accountability for the drone program has been on the wane.

SNIP
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