Are you doing anything to avoid medical bankruptcy?

[mdmc]

I just read an article about avoiding bankruptcy. It had the regular advice - dont keep up with the Jones, don't drown in credit card debt, don't overspend on education.. But the article admitted that the #1 cause of bankruptcies (in America, of course) was medical bills..

Here is the part regarding medical bankruptcies -

2. Assuming Insurance Will Cover Your Medical Bills

So, maybe you budget. You make an allowance for food, clothes, beer.

But do you have an allowance for medical costs?

Here's why you should: The No. 1 cause of bankruptcy is medical bills.

Harvard researchers found that 62 percent of all bankruptcies are caused by medical bills. Even more disturbing: 78 percent of those were people who had insurance.

"Things happen. Surprises happen," Kothari said. "And people don't prepare for the unexpected. They don't have a mindset of, 'How do I prepare myself for the unexpected?'"

Of course, the best medicine is to not get sick. And to that goal, you can do your best to lead a healthy lifestyle. But you also need to live a healthy "fiscal lifestyle," Kothari said -- make sure you're saving every month and building a cushion for the unexpected.

"Then you can be more resilient when life happens," he said.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What can you do to avoid medical bankruptcies?
1. Live a healthy life.
2. Save most of your disposable income to pay for unaffordable medical treatment.

Are you doing anything else to help avoid becoming bankrupt due to medical bills? Please share!

[Hannah Bell]

1. should we buy bankruptcy insurance, or just shoot ourselves now?

[haikugal]

2. Don't Get Old....

[mdmc]

4. I didn't know there was such a thing

bankruptcy insurance..

[dixiegrrrrl]

6. I am relly surprised they do not sell bankruptcy insurance.

But if they did, the premiums would bankrupt you, I guess.

[ThomWV]

40. They do, but its only for banks

[Stinky The Clown]

3. Single payer would have solved this

But oh no. We don't have the votes/it is too expensive/we have to phase it in/Congress isn't ready/insert your own bullshit excuse here.

[SammyWinstonJack]

8. Whatta great country, eh? Only those who can afford health care deserve it.

Much like a good education, too. I really wish I could afford to blow this pop stand. x(

[Greyhound]

52. Look at the bright side, as we slip further and further into the abyss,

we will eventually qualify for refugee status. Canada may be freaking cold, but we can walk there...
:rofl::cry::rofl:




Anti-bug edit...

[Greyhound]

53. Marker reply to get this on my page. n/t

[Lorien]

14. +1. The "60 vote strategy" was total bullshit from the get go

the repugs should have been forced to filibuster a HCR bill with a public option. Then they would really be in trouble right now!

[vi5]

5. Here's my situation...

My son is 4. He was born with a laundry list of medical issues and will likely be getting operations and having hospital stays 2-3 times a year for the next 10 years.

Thankfully my wife and I both have great insurance through our jobs and we can double cover him. We are extremely lucky.

What I am doing in the event that we lose our insurance, is maintaining good relationships with the doctors, at the same time that I log and keep track of what the doctors get paid with our insurance policy for each procedure. If we lose insurance I have no doubt that with that information and the relationship with have with his doctors and hospitals that we could work out a situation by which we could pay them what they would have received if we still had our insurance, plus whatever percentage.

This is the difference between being billed $40,000 for an operation versus being billed $5,000.

Yes, I know he can always be covered thanks to the new law that says they can't deny pre-existing conditions but for the most part it would probably be just as expensive for us to get one of those plans and pay the premiums and out of pockets as it would be for us to negotiate with the doctors themselves.

This approach obviously works in our situation but not for people who are trying to protect against unforeseen illnesses.

[mdmc]

9. thanks for the info..

I've been trying to build a report with my treatment providers..
This is a good idea and I appreciate you posting..
peace and low stress..

[usrbs]

I would move to a more civilized country

if I were younger or richer and willing to part from my kids, but that option is closed to me.

[old mark]

7. We had 2 medical bankruptcies over a 10 year period...the judge in the first

asked how much we owed, then what assets we had, and granted it immediately. The second time, a differrent judge just asked if it was all medical bills. We said yes,and it was granted without question. All our debts were wiped out, we kept our cars and house, etc.
We started getting credit card apps in the mail within a few months.

Now, around 13 years later, we have a credit score of 725, and I keep getting apps for loans for hundreds of thousands of dollars...


mark

[Greyhound]

51. You are fortunate(?) that this happened to you before the infamous bankruptcy "reform".

I filed mine on the last day of the old law and it did provide some small relief.

Now, we can get out from under some of the debt, but generally walk away with nothing but your house and car, and in the more "banking friendly" states, not even that.

[FiveGoodMen]

10. Yes, if I get sick I'm going to kill myself.

All other avenues have been closed.

[Lorien]

11. I used to have 80k in savings

but then medical expenses that my insurance refused to cover wiped it all out completely over about ten years. Now I'm knee deep in debt. :-(

[Liberal_in_LA]

32. yikes.

:-(

[blondeatlast]

12. Too late. Medical bills caused my family to declare in 2002.

Now that I'm divorced, I'm still paying thousands in medical bills for what COBRA doesn't cover--and I have a HCSA, even.

Fuck those people that are unwilling to pay their fair share. I hope their karma is cruel.

[blindpig]

13. I am not buying insurance.

That oughta do it...

But I am saving the money I would have paid to be used for medical expenses as necessary. If that ain't enough I'll show up at the emergency room and I will stiff the hospital.

Might be chancy but fuck them, I will not be extorted.

[Lorien]

15. +1. I paid $365.00 a month for 16 years with a 10-12k deductible and a

20% copay. They only ever paid for $200.00 worth of services and stuck me for the bill for nearly 90k worth of medical costs in that time. I would have been better off without the insurance.

[girl gone mad]

16. Nope.

I'm actually sheltering as much as possible in preparation for a potential medical bk (going uninsured to protest mandated insurance w/out a public option).

[xchrom]

17. Unrec - if Americans would close their borders, stop having children

And accept they only have to 'manage' every
Corner of their American life - they'd be fine.

[CrispyQ]

18. Yes. I bought a gun. I call it my "way out gun."

It will provide me a "way out" of our profit-based, "Don't have any money, then fuck you!" perverted 'health care' system.

[grantcart]

19. Well today I negotiated with my doctor.

I have this thing on my back.

Over the last few months it has grown larger than a grapefruit
cut in half and stuck on my back.

And it has turned deep purple.

It looks like it could be the source of a new form of life.

So I finally get a few dollars together and go see the doctor.
Being uninsured they collect $ 55 before I see the doctor.

Finally the doctor comes in and asks me what is going on, its
been 5 years since I saw him last.

"I have a rather large bump on my back, could be a world
record for the largest cyst or it could be that I have evolved
into a higher form of life and am growing a small gnome on my
back and it will be out soon."

He chuckles.

I take off my shirt and as we are both kind of chuckling (he
because he thinks I am exaggerating and me because I can tell
he is completely unprepared for what is coming around) I turn
around.

Dr. Wong, probably for the first time in his life exclaims,
"Holy God Almighty, how long have you had that?".

I get the doctor calmed down with a few phrases of Mandarin
and he says, "well anything that large has to be done by a
surgeon there is too great a chance of infection when it is
cut open, besides fluids will be everywhere.".

"No problem" I said I will be back in June of next year when I
have saved enough to afford a surgeon. He still has a shocked
expression when I ask, "why don't you explain the basics to me
and I will tell my wife and she will get it down, she is very good
with a knife, its not like we are talking about an organ
transplant or anything". (I haven't told him that my wife has
tried six or seven times to excise it with a needle but it has
proved to be rather stubborn.)

"Or", I said, "you could do it as an out patient procedure
here".

And with that (and I am not kidding) he looks up to the
ceiling of the examination room imagining how high the fluids
might spurt if he does it in office.

He knows I have some mysterious Asian past and no one is more
spooked about a mysterious asian past than a highly educated
pampered Asian who grew up in the city.

So far I have remained completely inscrutable and I ask him,
"If we skip with the local anesthesia and you show my wife how
to do handle the dressing after I leave how much can you do it
for?"

The blood has drained completely out of his face. He is still
considering the mess and I add "I will buy some plastic drop
cloth to keep it off your floor".

Keeping in character I say "You don't want me dropping by
every couple of months getting to know each other all the
while I wear tight shirts freaking out your clients in the
waiting room while they try to figure out what this huge hump
is for do you?".

He starts chuckling again and says "Well before this is over
you and I are going to know everything about each other". Now
I can't figure out what he is talking about and he is
chuckling and his lip is kind of twitching and now I am
wondering if he has some weird mysterious Asian thing in his
past I am going to have to worry about.

"I will do it for $ 120."

Well I consider that to be the red light special of the day,
grab his hand and say "Deal doctor see you Friday 10 am". On
the way out I am chuckling about coming way under budget a few
days before my wife's birthday, but I can also hear him
chuckling.

I wonder what he was chuckling about.

I wonder if he knew I was bluffing about skipping the local
anesthesia?

[pnwmom]

22. What a story. Good luck, grantcart! n/t

[GKirk]

26. You waited...

...til this 'thing' was the size of half a grapefruit before you went to see a doctor, why?

[mdmc]

39. perhaps cause there was no cash to see the MD before?

This is why I forgo medical treatment.. perhaps it is the same for Grant?

[Le Taz Hot]

46. LOL!

:applause: I can SOOO relate. I just can't find that kind of doctor.

[Lint Head]

20. Medicare for all dammit!

[Zavulon]

21. As someone who is unemployed, I'm saving a ton of money

by not having medical insurance at all. Happily, all of these massive "benefits" from HCR kick in in less than four years, and all I'll have to do then is help enrich insurance companies under threat of a fine. In the meantime, I don't pay a cent for health care!

Good thing we didn't go single-payer or extend Medicare to cover everyone. We really dodged a bullet there. PHEW!

[DailyGrind51]

23. Losing sleep and getting really nervous about headaches and stuff!

[flvegan]

24. What is this "disposable income" of which you speak?

:rofl:

[lolly]

33. Oh, you know

The pennies and dimes you've saved until you have the money necessary to cover a major medical event that your insurance doesn't cover.

Something like, I don't know, a couple hundred thousand dollars?

[valerief]

25. Move to a civilized country? nt

[depakid]

35. People in civilized countries find the notion of medical bankruptcy US style utter astonishing

and it's very difficult for them to wrap their minds around.

[REP]

27. I have a rare blood type, so unlikely to get kidney tx when mine go Stage 5

That'll cut down a lot, though dialysis isn't cheap...

[SheilaT]

28. I am fortunate enough,

so far anyway, to have the Republican Health Care Plan: I am inordinately healthy. I'm also two years and ten months from Medicare, and just hoping I can keep my Republican Health Care Plan that long.

[county worker]

29. I remember a graph from economics.

It was a savings and investment graph.

There was a line where income equaled spending. Below that was called dis savings and above was called savings.

The left side of the graph had income levels and I think the bottom had the cost of living or something similar.

Basically you have to have enough income to cover the cost of living and then some if you are ever going to have savings.

Now we are told to save for retirement and save for medical bills and I don't know what else. Most of us don't have enough to save and that us is growing in number.

So articles like this really piss me off since only a few of us can ever take advantage of it.

The solution is single payer or a public option that is affordable and covers all types of medical needs.

[eridani]

30. Move to any ohter developed country in the world? n/t

[lapislzi]

31. Stockpiling

Valium, Ativan, Xanax, Percocet, Oxy....I keep enough reserves to take myself out should the need present itself. That's my insurance policy. Cost me about $1k. And I reserve the right to exert my right at any time I deem fit.

[lolly]

34. This was about as helpful as the LATimes advice on health insurance

A couple years ago the LATimes had an article on how to get affordable health insurance.

Since I had a daughter graduating college who would need health insurance, I was eager to read it.

What did I learn? The way to get good affordable health insurance is--ta da!--to get a job that provides full health insurance benefits!

Yay! If only people knew this!

Oh, and the other piece of advice was, if you have a job that has good health insurance coverage, make sure you keep it.

It also had some info about buying insurance, but helpfully noted that it would be impossible to do this if you had a pre-existing condition, so you would be better getting that covered job.

[riderinthestorm]

36. Are you series??111!!

Sorry for the ridiculous intro line but I have to ask you if you truly understand the question - you've simultaneously said "If you have insurance that covers the bills" and asked "what if they don't?". You need to ASSume that your insurance company won't cover your medical emergency and how much do you think you have to "save" in order to prevent a medical bankruptcy?

1. My husband went to the hospital with what we thought was an appendicitis attack - turns out it was Stage IV, Grade IV lymphoma tumors destroying his kidneys. Our medical bills are in the millions now. How do we "save" for that?

2. I am a professional rider/trainer. I break my arm in a fall - compound fracture that requires surgery. My costs are more than %150k by the time I'm done with the ER, surgery and post-op care. I certainly don't have that amount of $ lying around. How do I budget for every single episode of my active, physical lifestyle that may require medical care? I also have an organic farming operation - farming is one of the most dangerous occupations on the face of the planet. Should I give up farming too?

Implying that people who go bankrupt because of medical expenses are somehow negligent because they didn't "save" enough is bullshit. Nobody in the middle class can save that much - ever. Nobody knows what's coming down the pike for them medically. I resent the implication that anyone can do anything to prevent a medical bankruptcy by simply "saving" enough. Medical care costs are astronomical. If you are uninsured, or if your insurance company denies you (did you see Sicko? People are denied treatment for ovarian cancer because they had a yeast infection! How do you prepare for that??), you are SOL and no amount of savings in the world will save you.

Furthermore, I think you are naive in thinking the insurance companies will automatically pay the bills for a person for their emergency. A person can think their insurance company will take care of them because "hell, its in the policy". And so they (justifiably so) don't save "enough". But reality demonstrates that insurance companies are MASTERS at denying claims. A person could believe they have reasonably budgeted enough to meet their needs for co-pays or an 80/20 plan and then when reality strikes, BAM! they are MILLIONS of DOLLARS short!

Bankrupt.

[mdmc]

37. I have health insurance and a medical savings account

but just like you I am one step away from a medical bankruptcy.

I was asking in the OP if anyone knew of anything else that could be done to avoid medical bankruptcies.

[w8liftinglady]

38. I had 250 K in medical bills this year...whatever savings I did have went to that

so...in the event of a catastrophic illness,all the forethought in the world won't help.between medical bills,medicine and keeping a family afloat-you are pretty much set.I was lucky I had savings...and friends.not everyone is there.

[demodonkey]

41. A .357 or .22 LR inserted w/ adequate force into the temporal lobe cheaply cures many illnesses.

No bankruptcy, no problems other than a bit messy for the undertaker.

Republican "health care".

[JCMach1]

42. Put it into an annuity so the bastards can't take you for everything you have

Annuities are not attachable.

[hobbit709]

43. All these brilliant budget ideas come from idiots who have no clue

How many people live-i.e. barely able to keep up with expenses on a good day.

To put something aside you have to have something to put aside in the first place.

[Le Taz Hot]

44. Yep.

Not going to the doctor, despite some very alarming medical concerns that become more obvious every day,

[uncommon]

45. I work in bk law and I do not see many people filing due to medical bills --

some, yes. Most have overspent due to job losses or the false sense of security many had during the housing boom.

Out of the 100 or so cases I have seen in the last year, only 3 or 4 were due to medical costs.

The good news is that if you find yourself in this position, all medical debt is dischargeable in bankruptcy. And contrary to popular belief, you can file for bankruptcy protection and keep your house and car(s) and other personal possessions.

Edited to add: if anyone is reading this thread and just at the outset of serious financial problems - DO NOT LIQUIDATE YOUR IRA/401(K) OR OTHER RETIREMENT ACCOUNT - THESE ASSETS ARE PROTECTED IN BANKRUPTCY AND YOU CAN KEEP YOUR RETIREMENT EVEN IF YOU DISCHARGE YOUR DEBT.

[Tsiyu]

47. Ha ha ha

Not to denigrate the OP; it's sensible and worth pondering, but I'm too busy wondering how I'll pay the phone and light bills, keep the critters fed (I'm doing rice and beans and garden veggies til frost, thanks) and keep gas in the car.

Medical bills?

I just hope I stay healthy. Uninsured and haven't been to a doctor in years...

My country doesn't seem to give a shit.

On a good note: I start another new job ( that makes three jobs I'll be working to make ends maybe get close enough to almost touch) this morning.

yay me!

happy day to all....

[TexasObserver]

48. The for-profit health care system wants your money. All of it.

[EXneoCON]

49. $100,000.00+ of medical debt...

...on a $36,500.00 a year salary.

You do the math...

[Throd]

50. Losing weight.

[mdmc]

57. 1

[Pathwalker]

54. Hiding from my Doctors. Assuming my Insurance WON'T pay my bills,

because they argue over every little thing, even refusing to allow a replacement foam cane handle - from our medical savings account!

[kenny blankenship]

55. I supported Single Payer. But all I got was this lousy mandate to make insurance execs richer

Fuck em all.

[area51]

56. +1

Each day, 273 people die due to lack of health care in the U.S.; that's 100,000 deaths per year.

We need single-payer health care, not a welfare bailout for the serial-killer insurance agencies.

We don't need the GingrichCare of mandated, unregulated, for-profit insurance that is still too expensive, only pays parts of medical bills, denies claims, bankrupts and kills people. Republinazi '93 plan:

"Subtitle F: Universal Coverage - Requires each citizen or lawful permanent resident to be covered under a qualified health plan or equivalent health care program by January 1, 2005."

"We will never have real reform until people's health stops being treated as a financial opportunity for corporations."