Mr. President, if you want us to buck up, it is time for you to man up.

[MadHound]

You have inexcusably failed to lead. You have failed to stand up and fight for one single piece of major progressive legislation. Without your leadership the Congress has floundered and flailed, left to the shifting "keep our powder dry" tactics perfected during the Bush administration. In the face of Republican obstructionist tactics you and Congress have fled the field time and again, even though the public favored issues such as the public option, repealing DADT and repealing the Bush tax cuts by large margins.

Worse, you have bitten the hand that feeds you. You have gone after teachers, anti-war activists, civil libertarians, the LGBT community and more. You are more than willing to compromise with the right, though they demonize and detest you, but do nothing for the left, the ones that played a substantial role in putting you and the Democrats where you are right now.

This is the realpolitik of the big tent. Each particular group under that tent needs to be attended to, otherwise they will bolt. You can't give everything to everybody, but you can give something to everybody, something that everybody can feel good about. If you had gone out and fought for a strong public option, repealing DADT, and civil liberties, I guarantee that you and the Democratic party wouldn't be in the position they're in now.

Insulting and browbeating is only compounding the problem Mr. President. When you tell us to step up, a lot of people are thinking, "You first." After all, this comes less than a week after the Dems threw in the towel on the Bush tax cuts. Two weeks after they threw in the towel on DADT. Almost three weeks after they quietly abandoned your jobs creation program. It is your job to step up and lead, but we're still waiting.

This isn't the Nobel Prize Mr. President, where you are rewarded beforehand for something that you may or may not achieve in the future. This is American politics, where people want results. You were elected to lead this country, to fight for what is right, for what the people wanted, and you have failed. People simply don't see the point of getting all pumped up only feel let down again.

Mr. President, you have a lot of people that want to see you succeed, myself included. But you've got to put forth the effort, you have got to step up first, show that you are willing to fight. Until that happens, you can't expect that people will step up for you and the Dems. It simply doesn't work that way.

[begin_within]

1. Thank you.

[peace frog]

135. Hear hear.

.

[Ikonoklast]

2. Your argument is with the Blue Dogs in the Senate.

They can thumb their noses at the Executive, and still get re-elected in their states. They cannot be cowed by Mr. Obama, as seen by their votes.


You see it as a lack of leadership.

What is it you want the man to do? Knock some heads? Arrest some senators? Act like a dictator?

[MadHound]

8. Knocking head, hand out favors, whatever it takes.

Sorry, but the president is the leader of his party, and in large part sets the agenda of Congress. Several presidents have used the bully pulpit to pull in recalcitrint members of not only their own party, but the opposing party as well. The person who sits in the Oval Office can accomplish a lot, one has but to look at history to see that.

It's not that they can't be cowed by Obama, it is that he's not even trying. Well, except for Kucinich, who he cowed into voting for HCR without the public option.

If Obama, as president, can't move members of his own party, then perhaps it is time that we moved them for him:shrug:

[Ikonoklast]

11. You know for a fact what is going on behind the scenes.

Doubt it.

And many times the president that tried to sway the laggers in his own party only made them dig in their heels.

And now Kucininch is easily swayed? Not that he saw that this health bill was the best that it was going to be? Funny how no one seem to influence him that easily before.

[MadHound]

15. No, what I know for a fact is history,

How other presidents have led, fought and overcome opposition stiffer than what Obama has. I know how realpolitik works under this here two party, big tent system. And I know that it is easier, and better, to inspire voters with what you have done, than to try and scare them into the voting booth.

Again, no filibusters, no use of the bully pulpit, no fight! No successes for major progressive issues that the public was in favor of! If you won't fight for issues that the majority are in favor, how can you expect the public to fight for you?

[chimpymustgo]

105. "If you won't fight for issues that the majority are in favor, how can you expect the public to

fight for you?"

Bingo. Obama has not fought for us AT ALL.

[Luminous Animal]

27. Dr. Dean gave us a hint today. Liberals were left humiliated.

[gateley]

57. What did he say? I just Googled and only found him referred to in a Slate

article -- is that it? I didn't read it, thought it would be quicker to just come back and check. Thanks.

[Luminous Animal]

65. Dean Called Rahm's 'Contempt' For Base 'Devastating And Incredibly Demoralizing': Book Excerpt

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9216373&mesg_id=9216373

Bonus quote: ""That's basically saying to your own people -- you got us here, now FU."
"

[gateley]

72. Thanks - I missed that. I often wish Obama would listen to Dean. I don't know

what happened there, but I think Obama and we could benefit from his input. I'm going to go read it now (and no doubt get pissed!) :hi:

[awoke_in_2003]

187. He would never listen to Dean...

because he only wants to serve one term. Kinda good gig- serve 4 years, get a pension and protection for the rest of your life, and make BIG bucks on speaking tours. And speeches seem to be the only thing this president is good at.

[ooglymoogly]

202. And entry into the shadow government of the moneyed; Who live

on government (taxpayer) welfare for the rich; Who have rigged the system by just this tactic.

The path into this elite club is;

Get into government;

Effect policy hugely benefiting and protecting the rich and indemnifying their theft;

Retire into a gated life (like Herr Bu$h) protected from the scum, the folks who pay for this obscene largess, the taxpaying public.

Obama does not realize there are folks a lot smarter than he is.

The enigma he thinks he is, has unraveled; Its codes all to simple to break.

[flyarm]

18. Joe Biden went to Boston with Blanche Lincoln , a BLUE DOG to campaign fund raise.

your point is moot.

Why did this administration have to take Blanche to Boston to fund raise? Last week.

Perhaps because she can't get support money in her own state??????

[Ikonoklast]

29. And do you know if this was in return for a vote on an issue?

Do you have any idea as to how politics works?

[Kalun D]

82. No

It was because she's a fuc*king corporate hack

because this is a fuc*king corporate admin

[flyarm]

113. um No I don't know..how about asking all the richest folks who were at the fund raiser..

and yes indeed I do know how politics works..

I am a former Elected Dem in my state...and have worked for and with the Dem party for 4 decades...in 9 diferent states I have lived. I have done public speaking for the national DNC, and rapid response for the DNC In DC and even in 2008 I was sent to 2 states to protect democratic votes, for the Democratic party.

And I am in no mood to put my resume here for you.

For 4 decades I have been a member of the DEC and was begged in my state now by the national DNC to run as a SEC Chair ( that would be the State Executive Chair) I declined.

any more questions?????????

Was that meant as an insult??..sorry to dissapoint you.

And you???????????

[Dr.Phool]

119. Is that a joke?

Do you have any idea how politics works?

I've worked with Fly on several campaigns over the last 10 years. We know how politics work. More than most people. We've been closely involved with many candidates, at the local, state, federal, and yes even presidential levels. We've had private conversations with them. We know what they say, away from the press, in a one-on-one setting.

When we smell a rat, we know where the aroma is coming from.

[ChiciB1]

278. AND, I As A Floridian Am So Overwhelmingly HAPPY That BOTH Of You

are from Florida!! We have a job to do here and I know many are working hard to achieve a certain outcome!

Thanks for all the input from flyarm and you! I LOVE it and feel better that you both are so informed!

[Erose999]

176. I doubt thats the case. What progressive issue has she voted favorably on?

[frylock]

190. the "you don't know what goes on behind the scenes" argument was used to defend bush..

didn't buy it then, sure as hell am not buying it now.

[ooglymoogly]

206. And was that favor worth the election of Brown.

Now this darling of the DLC will lose another election for the Democrats.....Sherr doooood, good trade.

BLANCH LINCOLN IS A DINO.

AS A DEMOCRAT, SHE HAS NO CLOTHES.

Do you think the folks of Ma. are fools?

Coakley was just one more of them.

[JDPriestly]

237. Blanche Lincoln is helped to fundraise, and we are chastised.

That's perverted. Obama's interview in the Rolling Stone was great, but he needs to listen more to us and spend less time with the turncoat Blanche Lincoln types. She has not supported his policies nearly as much as we have. What poor strategy.

[Ticonderoga]

243. Homerism sucks friend. Be it from the left of the right.

[walldude]

255. Which issue? She has already fucked us...

Which issue is it exactly that you think Biden was playing for?

[tavalon]

120. If President Obama acted more like FDR or Truman and less like

a triangulating Clinton, damn straight these blue dogs would get in line. They would get in line and show belly. They are poorly trained and that, with a dog, ultimately lies at the feat of the owner/leader. Obama was a great candidate but he has been an absent leader. So the blue dogs piss on him with impunity. They know there will be no rebuke or discipline. They have seen it with their own blue dog eyes.

[tavalon]

121. If President Obama acted more like FDR or Truman and less like

a triangulating Clinton, damn straight these blue dogs would get in line. They would get in line and show belly. They are poorly trained and that, with a dog, ultimately lies at the feat of the owner/leader. Obama was a great candidate but he has been an absent leader. So the blue dogs piss on him with impunity. They know there will be no rebuke or discipline. They have seen it with their own blue dog eyes.

Obama seems to lack the temperament to take the world stage.

[awoke_in_2003]

189. "lack the temperament to take the world stage"...

or maybe he is just coasting. He won an election in a year where the dems could have run a monkey and won. Now he has just 2 more years to go, and he will have a lifetime pension and medical care, and can go on speaking tours (being the only thing he is good at) and make big money.

[HughBeaumont]

198. Um . . . are you implying he's losing in 2012?

Errrr . . . against WHO, pray tell?

[SlimJimmy]

228. Be careful what you say. Anyone not in lockstep with this

President is committing treason as far as DU is concerned. Oh, and being a "Blue Dog" Democrat is poison here as well. Not much of a big tent if you ask me.

[tavalon]

239. You know, as mad as I am with him, I just don't see that

That's Palinesque. He doesn't strike me as the carpetbagger type. Sure, he does look like he's coasting but I just don't get it. He's a Leo for goodness sake, we Leo's fricken' love the center stage. He has the stage and he won't take it. It just befuddles me. But I don't see him as the kind of user you're describing. Politician, yes, mercenary, no.

[bvar22]

159. Those who remember "Democrats" like LBJ & Tip O'Neill..

..will strongly disagree with you.

"Strong and successful presidents (meaning those who get what they want - whether that happens to be good for the country or not) do not accept "the best deal on the table". They take out their carpentry tools and the build the goddam piece of furniture themselves. Strong and successful presidents do not get dictated to by the political environment. They reshape the environment into one that is conducive to their political aspirations."

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/07/17

"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."
--- Paul Wellstone

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

222. Tip O'Neill?

Who lost many a fight with Reagan.

[bvar22]

236. No shame in losing a fight.

Much shame in surrendering without a fight.
Wellstone lost many fights too,
but he STOOD UP, and that is what counts.

"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."
--- Paul Wellstone

[truedelphi]

232. The two of us in this household remember the statesman known as LBJ

He passed some major legislation, called the Civil Rights Act, and it took effect within months and not four years down the line.

And he didn't make major concessions to segregationists in order to get the bill to pass.

And in fact, I have become nostalgic for Nixon - he went so far as to insist on Price Rollbacks the summer of 1973, when infaltion was cropping up its nasty little head.

Meanwhile, our President let his buddies in the Big Insurance, Big Pharma Corporations scam the American people, to help him and the sold out Congress pass the "historic" Health Care "Reform" Act. The average American has seen a 17% increase in insurance premiums, in just two years, and experts say more hikes are coming before the end of the year.

[G_j]

307. didn't make major concessions to segregationists in order to get the bill to pass

great point

[Art_from_Ark]

311. I remember the Great Society public service commercials

and Ladybird's beautification program, and just a general sense of optimism that the government was actively promoting the general welfare.

[ooglymoogly]

194. Are you blind.

Did you not witness Rahm promoting Bluedogs and Dino's to run for congress as Democrats, while pulling the rug from Progressives. Did you not witness the appointment of Bluedogs to commission (Baucus, Simpson et all) heads on important legislation. Did you not see the Kabuki of O saying he was for Public Option having already made a deal to sell it down the river. Loudly but briefly saying "I am for Public option" until Reid and Palosi said they had the votes, then announcing 'Public option is not a deal breaker' mystifying even both Reid and Palosi and even more surprising, a corporate press. I could go on like this on every important issue. If you have been watching, you have not been seeing.

[JDPriestly]

235. Obama has campaigned for the Blue Dogs that block his votes.

That is the incredible thing here. Landrieu is holding up one of Obama's most important appointments. Do you hear Obama publicly chastising her for that?

We have supported Obama's appointments -- until they proved themselves incompetent or unfit to serve in a Democratic administration. Why can't Obama be as unforgiving and demanding of the Blue Dogs and conservadems as he is of progressives. His strategy makes no sense.

[sabrina 1]

272. Of course they can be 'cowed' as you put it.

If the President, eg, had used his influence to effect the reelection of someone like Blanche Lincoln who may as well BE a Republican, she would have quickly changed her tune. Instead, despite everything she did to thwart him, (of course it all could have been part of the game to give Dems the excuses they needed not to get things done) he went out and supported her in the primary. Shameful, he could have simply remained silent.

What people are seeing clearly is that this WH is far more in line politically with the rightwing of the Dem Party than they led people to believe in the campaign.

The Blue Dogs may NOT get reelected this time. They have been elected by people who were persuaded that even though they are not particularly good Dems, we needed them for votes. Well, that didn't work out too well so I can't see the same progressives caring whether they win or not in November when they vote like Republicans anyhow. It simply won't make a difference to the average American, only the numbers will change.

Otoh, people will enthusiastically support Progressive Dems, even those not in their districts. The old game of 'vote for them anyhow, we need people with a 'D' after their names, isn't going to work much longer.

[molly77]

287. If you will recall the WH was against

the public option in the health care bill...and he was for bailing out the banks. The US taxpayers do not even know where their tax dollars went. This is not democracy. Democratic leaders can put down their base and suck up to republicans. But they cannot expect democrats to continue to support them.

[opihimoimoi]

3. RW fail Meme....Obama is doing OK for the Nation....far better than Palin/McOld would of...

Rookie Baggers is not the answer

Neither is Boner the Moaner

[MadHound]

9. Really? Obama is doing OK for the nation?

Gee, have you looked around the nation lately? Without those rose colored glasses of yours?

Yes, he is doing better than McCain would have, but then again, that's a pretty damn low bar you're setting for success there.

He and the Dems are letting the minority party get away with running the government. That's not what we elected them to do.

[opihimoimoi]

12. The GOP fucked the Nation for years and ya want overnight success? Good luck

[MadHound]

16. Oh puhleeze Vulcan, stop with that tired old cliche! It went out of style years ago

You know as well as I do that the overwhelming majority of Americans want or expect overnight success. That includes the left, right and center. But what the people do want is for the President and Dems to fight, especially for issues that the majority of the public are in favor of. We didn't put them into their offices in order that they can let the minority party continue to rule.

[opihimoimoi]

26. It still holds true...one cannot expect miricles in serious matters concerning the Nation

over night...esp when the GOP Party of NO is Obstinate and Obstructive...

Obama has done much in these 1.7 years...

[MadHound]

28. We're not expecting miracles overnight!

But really now, when you've got Democratic control of Congress and the White House, and the majority of public in your corner on issues like the public option, yet you still can't get it passed, worse, won't even put up a fight, sorry, but something is seriously fucked up.

We don't want miracles, we want effort, we want fight.

[opihimoimoi]

30. Believe me...I want the same...but I cannot help but wonder what would happen if the Baggers/GOP

The GOP loves and Promotes nit picking...esp on smaller issues....they never offer realistic plans and solutions..They are the MOOT PARTY

Th answers for all of us are not found in the GOP....period....

[MadHound]

32. No, the answer is not found in the GOP,

But the fact of the matter is that for a lot of disappointed people, the answers are found less and less in the Democratic party as well.

Neither party is running on platform or accomplishments any more, all they are running on is fear of the "other". Not a smart way to run a campaign, government or country.

People want to see things actually done, you know, a reward for their support. But we're simply not getting that out of Obama or the Dems. They've had the perfect opportunities to engage the 'Pugs in a fight and proceed to beat the shit out of them, but they've backed down time and again. If you're not going to support the ones who got you where you are, then why are you expecting them to support you?

[opihimoimoi]

36. The fight is not with Obama and what he is doing or not doing...it is w the GOP Whiner BULLIES

It is they and their Big Bucks who are trying to influence this election

The DEMs have EMPATHY, Feelings, compassion, benevolency, Truth, Reason, and Clarity...far more than the greedy GOP

Ya never see a Goper Tree Hugger Save the Planet dude ...do you?

Thats because the GOP could give a rats ass about anything other than their shit...

Their GREED has gone Ebolaesque...

Bring down Obama and ya help the GOP Bastids...

[MadHound]

48. And who is supposed to lead in that fight?

Oh, yeah, the Dems we elected to the WH and Congress. But instead of leading they're running, but still want us to support them in their quest to run even further.

[opihimoimoi]

And who the fuck is running? oh whats the use.....n/m

[MadHound]

52. Umm, that would be the Democratic leadership that is running,

Running from the fight, time and again. The Bush tax cuts, a week ago they ran from the fight. Repealing DADT, two weeks ago they ran. Three weeks ago. . .I can go on all night.

[PassingFair]

248. The fight IS with Obama. Fortunately, he's not up for election right now...

so it's clear that the fight is NOT with our LOCAL
DEMOCRATS who ARE up for election now.

Here in Michigan, we have a FABULOUS candidate
for Governor and State and House seats that we
will LOSE if we don't crack the apathy.

I won't give money to the DNC to piss away on
Blue Dogs and New Dems, but i'll give to my
local progressive candidates till it HURTS
this cycle.

I'm telling local voters to FORGET DC, fight
for your people LOCALLY this cycle.

[tavalon]

124. Yep, it isn't an either/or

I'm voting Democratic this fall despite the castigation I receive on a daily basis from this administration. I have complaints. I'm not a whiner. I'm also starting to think we made a mistake with Obama. He doesn't appear to have the ability to use the bully pulpit with any effectiveness at all. It really doesn't matter how much he accomplishes behind the scene, the job description includes public leadership and that part he's been phoning in at best. It's a fair reminder that just because he's one of the most intelligent and thoughtful (and just plain cool) men in the world he isn't cut out for the top leadership spot. One would have thought the grueling primary wars would have culled for that but apparently not.

[ChiciB1]

280. Anyone Hear About The FOUR HUNDRED Fund Raisers Going On In D.C.

last night for Democrats? Seems like Tweety repeated that TWICE last night! WHY so many in D.C.?

Ummmmm, gee could it WHERE THE MONEY IS?? I agree with the OP, STOP giving the "pretty little speeches" and STOP bashing the base or maybe those who you call leftist, who have been here as Democrats for many, many years. We've learned how to lose, but we thought we WON when you got elected! Most of us worked very hard to get Obama elected, but his love fest with Repukes is really a slap in the face!

Looks like Blanche is going down, and instead of them supporting her opponent in the Primary, now they're stuck with this DLC/Blue Dog who just might not be there to vote anyway!

Rahm & CREW have done this over and over in many counties and states and I as a long time Democrat am seriously offended by "them" attacking us so much of the time!

So now, here again is Obama in the "rock star" mode spinning new stories, but unfortunately many of us don't believe him anymore. What's worse... they're blaming US. It's so hollow and such a crock and in the meantime too many people are being trampled on.

Oh, I'm gonna stop, this just reminds of why I'm so cynical. Gonna go read a book!

[CrispyQ]

197. "...won't even put up a fight..."

Fight - that's what I voted for! Someone who would fight for the People, not capitulate on every key issue, before the game even got started. I'm tired of hearing, "The public option would not have passed in Congress." How do we know, when this administration never even tried? The single payer voice was silenced before negotiations even began.

Don't get me started on the whole "looking forward" bullshit, for war criminals. Although, now that he's one, too, guess we know why he wanted to 'look forward.' Disgusting.

[flyarm]

217. how do we know? Indeed, when they did backroom deals ..before there ever could be a fight!

we were sold out before any fight could take place!

Then those who wrote the bill were Lobbyists! Yes Lobbyists wrote the bill..Lobbyists For the very interested parties who would withold health care from us!!!!!!! and put every loophole they could in the bill to protect their bottom line, not we the people's health or care!!... with the blessings of Obama and his team!

Then we have this administration giving immunity for ILLEGALLY TAPING PHONE CALLS AGAINST AMERICANS.. illegally being the key word here. As in : against our constitutional rights!

Renditions that continue to this day!

Signing statements signed by Obama of Shoot to kill orders against Americans on foreign soil..against all our constitutional rights.

Womens rights to have Birth Control paid for by their insurance companies..until this admin does a 1 year or longer study..what??? 40+ years of study and reports were not enough???????

DADT..wellllll this pres and congress just didn't have the time for that..nor a repeal of tax cuts for the richest..because they are too busy giving away the family farm and smearing the farmer for their corporate bidders!!!!!!!

For a President who said he only wants to look forward, it seems to me and many of us who have been lifetime Democrats and Democratic activists and Democratic loyalists, we are only going backwards ..in the worst ways!
We are losing ground to everything we have spent liftimes fighting for and we are lsoing ground quickly and with the blessings of this Democratic president.

[TransitJohn]

242. it's not that they wouldn't put up a fight

it's that with the health insurance mandate masquerading as reform, they got the bill they wanted, with built in preservation of profit for insurance and pharmaceutical corporations.

[PufPuf23]

261. Most of which is contrary to the best interests and will of a majority

of the American people.

The left, middle class, poor, equal civil liberties, environment, and world of peace rather than violence.

There should be legal limits on how many words or pages can be in a piece of legislation. Legislation can be written and sound good but implementing regulations and funding of the law is critical as well as intent and lead managers.

Rational and legal expections should be conviction and bravery by the POTUS and other politicians for the best of the American people regardless of class and for relations with the USA be a benefit for other nations at a minimum.

[indepat]

169. The GOP fucked the nation for years, so the first thing I had hoped for was a repudiation,

a complete reversal of every wrong-headed, damaging, illegal or unconstitutional initiative, policy, or action initiated by the Bush-Cheney cabal. Sadly, even a blind man can clearly see that the great majority of the cabal's disastrous initiatives, policies, and actions have been largely ratified and that any reform, be it HCR or financial industry, has RW fingerprints all over it and/or is too tepid to get the job done. Hence, the Republic continues to head down the proverbial economic, financial, and fiscal toilet. And for lagniappe: watch for social security benefits to be slashed but, for heaven's sake, don't let the tax cuts for the top 2% expire for that would indeed signify an end to life in the western world as we have known it. ;)

[molly77]

289. Now the state dept. is going to

get billions for mercenaries...no money for "entitlements" like social security. Fascist pigs.

[treestar]

179. You've lost all reason. Your last sentence is just so out there.

Obama's right. You've lost it.

[MadHound]

185. If my last sentence is so out there,

Then explain to me why the Dems have failed to stand up to the 'Pugs. Explain to me why the Dems haven't forced a real live filibuster fight. Explain to me why, with large majorities in Congress and control of the WH, Dems can't get their shit together and pass legislation that is supported by a large majority of the people.

[flyarm]

220. I believe I hear ..crickets!!!!!!!!!

[obxhead]

246. Everything looks a little different through these I guess.

[inna]

31. Right wing my ass. You clearly are not even able to tell left from right.

[opihimoimoi]

49. The GOP are the ones who come to fool us with smoke and mirrors...and denigration too.

They spend enormous amounts of $$ to win back their Power....not for Country First but for their Greed/vanity/obssession for power....

The GOPer Masters are cunning and conniving..will do anything to win....lie cheat steal....

Look at their dismal record.

[inna]

56. dude. the GOP are fucking fascists, but that is not the point of this OP,

and please quit using absurd straw man arguments, it's annoying.


OF COURSE, Palin is worse. That is not the fucking point.

[Techn0Girl]

92. Be Afraid - Be Very Afraid !

"They spend enormous amounts of $$ to win back their Power....not for Country First but for their Greed/vanity/obssession for power....

The GOPer Masters are cunning and conniving..will do anything to win....lie cheat steal...."


Coming SOON to a Theater near YOU!
(no one under 18 permitted )

[Individualist]

171. You're confusing GOP with DLC, but that's not at all surprising

since DLC is the republican wing of the Democratic party.

You just described DLC perfectly.

[Bluebear]

39. Ah yes, "Palin would have been worse". What a high bar for which Obama will be remembered.

[opihimoimoi]

95. President Obama is priceless...the man of the hour...he has saved us big time

The Crotchity GOPers promotes trouble and misery

The DEMs go for Happy and whats right for the Nation...

They are the best for the sit....not the GOPer Bullies...

[tavalon]

130. Wow, I want some of what you're having!

The President you describe is not the one I see with my eyes. Who should I believe? You or my lying eyes?

[opihimoimoi]

229. Diesel in the AM...Kush at night.....That brings about Reality

[flyarm]

221. wow that Kool Aide must be potent! don't choke on that stuff..or let it go up your nose! EOM

[frylock]

192. nobody here voted for mccain or palin

[emilyg]

4. k/r

[donheld]

5. Who's whining us or the Administration

We are suppose to hold their collective feet to the fire and "make them do it." Now when we try to do just that they say we are whining.

[MadHound]

10. We're also suppose to support them in return for vague promises of change,

Change at some point in the vague future, perhaps within a generation, after he is out of office.

[OnyxCollie]

158. It's time we realized

the fascists that took over during bushco's reign have not gone quietly into the night.

Brzezinski, Z. (1956). Totalitarianism and rationality. The American Political Science Review, 50(3), 751-763.

The totalitarian economy, as many have observed, has been developed in keeping with plans oriented to
a final (if not yet precisely defined) goal. It is thus a goal-oriented economy, the goal being communism.
Those in charge of the Soviet society have assumed that economic and social development in all its
aspects can be purposefully steered by man in the direction of an ideal solution.

This produces consequences not only economic but also political, where, to a large extent, economic life
is self-directive and ultimate goals, such as plenty and progress, are purposely vague.

~snip~

To be less totalitarian such operations would have to involve some degree of withdrawal on the part of
those in charge from their commitment to total social and economic engineering, thus granting to those
living under the system the opportunity to make important choices not in keeping with the goal.

But such a politically meaningful development would in turn involve a further condition, which at the
present appears highly unlikely, namely the decline of ideology and a basic reconsideration of the firmly
instituted schemes of economic development. Barring that, the totalitarian economic system would
continue to exert pressures for the maintenance of a dictatorship capable of enforcing the kind of
discipline that such total plans demand. It is doubtful that as long as the party remains in power the
tendency of the regime to stress unattainable goals will vanish. Indeed, it is these goals, inherent
in the current ideology, which justify to the population the sacrifices which the party's domination involves.
Thus, as long as the party continues to hold its successful grip on the instruments of power, we can
expect it to continue stressing first the long-range goals of an ultimate utopia, and then the consequent
sacrifices to achieve them, even though possibly at a diminishing rate of effort.

[felix_numinous]

252. +1

The real power is still in place.

[veganlush]

233. good point...n/t

[Nite Owl]

6. K&R

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. k/r

[democracy1st]

13. K & R

[leftstreet]

14. K&R

[gateley]

17. I disagree. I think he's led admirably and has fought hard for legislation. Not

going to get into it with you, we won't convince one another, but just wanted to "vote" my disagreement with many of your statements.

:hi:

[MadHound]

20. So, you think he makes a fine leader,

Despite the fact that he has failed to lead, much less fight, for legislation that a large majority of Americans wanted?

The only legislation I've seen him constantly fight hard for is that which benefited the elite or corporately connected. Tax cuts, tax credits, expansion of the police state, these are things he has fought for.

The rest of us, not so much.

[gateley]

43. You can re-read what I posted. I'm not going to get into it with you. I respect

your opinion and I'll let it go at that. I just wanted to say I disagree without dissing your viewpoint. Can't I just disagree?

[MadHound]

54. Sure, you can disagree,

But that doesn't preclude my right to answer you:shrug:

[Bluebear]

42. Which legislation has he fought so "hard" for? Just curious.

[gateley]

44. You're right. Absolutely not one thing. Forgive me for being a cheerleader and

drinking the Kool-Aid. Throw the bum out.

[Bluebear]

45. What a foul answer to a serious question. Later.

[gateley]

51. If you haven't put me on ignore -- I apologize. It's difficult to "hear" the

intent of a question/statement here, and it seems as though all day I've been dumped on for whatever I've said. I thought you were piling on, too, I knee-jerk reacted.

I think he fought like hell for health care. He gave more concessions than any of us would have ever wanted, but he did his best, disappointing as the result may be. He was up against almost insurmountable resistance.

Again, I apologize.

[Bluebear]

55. Don't worry.

I have always enjoyed you and you would never be on ignore. I agree he fought to negotiate health care, though i think he abandoned the public option way too soon. Otherwise, all I hear is that he doesn't have a magic wand and it's all Congress' fault. Truthfully, the whole system seems broken right now.

[gateley]

64. Agree that the whole system seems broken now. This is the first time I've really

paid close attention to politics, and I am aghast at all that goes on "politically".

I think we all agree he abandoned public option to soon -- and too easily, but I wonder if he may have been naive thinking that's all it would take to get a decent bill passed. But that's second guessing him, but I always tend to give people the benefit of the doubt (a flaw :7).

And I've long said he needs to send Biden down to the floor of the Senate to pull an LBJ. We DO need to do SOMETHING. I just think he's been working a lot harder than we realize. :shrug:

And I HAVE to say I'm sorry again - I do feel badly for being so vile. You sure didn't deserve it. :(

[SammyWinstonJack]

154. Can't throw him out until 2012.

:evilgrin:

[bvar22]

160. Obama fought HARD for his Supplemental War Appropriations.

He sent Arm Twisters to visit Progressive "Democratic" Congressmen who balked at voting FOR more money for WAR in 2009.

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/06/17-5

[slay]

19. K&R

you said it better than i could - i feel pretty much the same way.. :kick:

[flyarm]

21. K&R!!!

[dionysus]

22. big ol' pile of bitter FAIL.

[AtomicKitten]

23. k&U for this steaming pile of horse pucky

:puke:

[Fumesucker]

24. K&R to offset your unrec..

:hi:

[AtomicKitten]

25. You're welcome.

We know how some of you get cranky when those that un-recommend don't comment.

- edited for typo

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluenorthwest]

122. I love the 'we' and 'some of you'

Words of division, so useful to a political Party! So you are part of a group action or what? Do you simply use the royal 'we' due to some ego issue? What's the deal, why are you plural and treating others according to presumed groupings?
Sounds so paranoid......

[flyarm]

181. +++ !!

[Name removed]

33. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[chimpymustgo]

108. Vile.

:puke:

[hlthe2b]

34. Do you want to demand he "put on his Big Boy pants too?"

Look, don't get me wrong. I understand and appreciate the points in your post--agree with most. But, can we discuss our disappointments in a way that does not make many of us think reminiscent of the RW? Really, "Man UP?" Who were you channeling, Christine O'Donnell?

[MadHound]

37. Oh geez, is this your quibble, semantics

If this is the best you can do in defending Obama and the Dem's quisling manner of steering the ship of state, then even you know in your heart of hearts they've been a failure.

[hlthe2b]

41. Re-read my post. I wasn't defending Obama

Just calling you out on your language that is meant clearly to emasculate. That is not appropriate and is offensive to many just as using sexist language to criticize Hillary Clinton or other prominent females. There is plenty to discuss with respect to Obama's record without adopting that tactic.

[MadHound]

50. Again, you're making a semantics argument, not a substantial one.

Frankly all I'm doing is judging him by his behavior, and he behaves as though he is emasculated. If you don't like sort of comparison, oh well.

[hlthe2b]

53. You lose all ability to make a substative argument...

when you resort to such sexist or demeaning language. If your disappointment at his failure to follow through on many actions causes you to conclude he is "emasculated" and to use that kind of language, I hate to think what you would use to call out a female. Actually, it implies that females (being already emasculated) can not possibly function in that capacity. See where this BS language ends up? O'Donnell used that language on her opponent, Castle, to imply in a demeaning way that he was gay. Is THAT what you are trying to imply as well? I certainly would not think so.

Yes, language matters.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hlthe2b]

60. Oh, really? The tactic of those who can not debate... verbal abuse

LOLOL.... I registered May, 2001. You can see that in my profile, as other long termers like myself could tell you. But your resorting to personal attack says so much about you, which is ironic, given I wasn't even disagreeing with the majority of points in your original post.

Your abusive attitude though--particularly towards other DUers and certainly the entire administration, however flawed, makes me wonder a great deal about your agenda.

[MadHound]

102. "Makes me wonder a great deal about your agenda." Hmm, talk about abuse

Implying that I've got other motives, right. At least be up front about what you're saying, OK. But you can't do that, nor can you make an argument based on facts. Just word play and semantics. Sad.

[hlthe2b]

103. Agenda for attacking other DUers?

even those who are agreeing with you? Yes, apparently.

[MadHound]

110. Funny thing

I notice that nobody else is screaming that somehow I'm sexist or misogynist, why's that? Oh, yeah, that's right:think:

Look, this was real, this was fun, but I'm not going to continue this semantic argument with for another day, it simply isn't worth the time.

[hlthe2b]

112. Actually others did reply... wondering why you emulated O'Donnell

in using emasculation as your tactic in your critique of Obama, at least from the standpoint of laughing at your attempt to do so. We all know why Christine O'Donnell did this, in the light of her homosexual whisper campaign against Castle... The question is why a progressive would use such language at all, much less find it acceptable to use towards someone they indicate that they supported in 2008. Really. Why? If it were just an inadvertent comment, I should have thought you would say so. Yet in all your replies, you did not.

[MadHound]

144. Wow, Soviet style language police

Sorry, but you continue to argue semantics, not substance. I understand why you're doing that, because if you base your arguments in substance your foundation is shaky at best.

Frankly I use the language I do because it seems fitting to me. I don't know about O'Donnell's use of similar language, because I simply don't obsess over her every little action. If you don't like my language, to damn bad, deal with it. The fact of the matter is that Obama and the Dems have backed down from every single fight offered, and if that isn't the classic definition of a failure to man up, then what is?

You imply that I'm some sort of 'Pug, or have nefarious intentions is interesting in and of itself. Tell you what, rather than continuing to beat around the bush, why don't you man up yourself, and come out and tell me straight just who or what you think I am. Can you do that, or will you continue to be coy, using hints and innuendo?

[hlthe2b]

145. I can only wonder why you think such sexist & demeaning language

is ok. What is it about "manliness" --or your perceived lack thereof in others-- that has you so fixated?

[Name removed]

147. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hlthe2b]

149. Once again you resort to personal attacks ...

[MadHound]

153. LOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Pot-Kettle, shake.

:rofl::rofl:

[tavalon]

131. Get a spine

Does that one work for ya?

[hlthe2b]

151. that would have been a more appropriate way to convey...

rather than demeaning sexist language that is favored by our opponents on the RW.

[sabrina 1]

312. I think you're being silly and distracting. 'Man up' is a phrase

meaning 'get some courage and stand up for something'. It can be said to a man or a woman. I'm surprised that someone who is yelling 'sexism' doesn't seem to think that 'poor, helpless females' wouldn't be expected to 'man up' when they take on positions of power.

People get really tired of these silly games. As a woman I take more offense from your implication that the phrase you so object to should only be applied to men.

[Cherchez la Femme]

163. Yet you were the only one posting about "Big Boy pants"

From what I've observed, especially in sports, "Manning up" is said by men referring to men.

If that is emasculating, I suggest you write sportscasters and the like and inform them regarding how, via their language, they emasculate professional male athletes
--not saying that's limited to that group, however.

[liberation]

173. Obviously "emasculate" does not mean what you think it means...

... glorious string of red herrings you fished today though. LOL.

[guruoo]

38. LOL!

'Who were you channeling, Christine O'Donnell?'

:rofl:

[AtomicKitten]

46. lolol

[walldude]

256. Sounded to me like the OP was channeling Biden, Rahm

and the rest of the "We are so fucking great and you are just too stupid to see it" people.

[guruoo]

35. "Guys, wake up here...

We have accomplished an incredible amount in the most adverse circumstances imaginable." I came in and had to prevent a Great Depression, restore the financial system so that it functions, and manage two wars. In the midst of all that, I ended one of those wars, at least in terms of combat operations. We passed historic health care legislation, historic financial regulatory reform and a huge number of legislative victories that people don't even notice. We wrestled away billions of dollars of profit that were going to the banks and middlemen through the student-loan program, and now we have tens of billions of dollars that are going directly to students to help them pay for college. We expanded national service more than we ever have before.

The Recovery Act alone represented the largest investment in research and development in our history, the largest investment in infrastructure since Dwight Eisenhower, the largest investment in education — and that was combined, by the way, with the kind of education reform that we hadn't seen in this country in 30 years — and the largest investment in clean energy in our history.

You look at all this, and you say, "Folks, that's what you elected me to do." I keep in my pocket a checklist of the promises I made during the campaign, and here I am, halfway through my first term, and we've probably accomplished 70 percent of the things that we said we were going to do — and by the way, I've got two years left to finish the rest of the list, at minimum. So I think that it is very important for Democrats to take pride in what we've accomplished."

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/209395?RS_show_page=0

True.

[opihimoimoi]

40. Fuck Yeah...you tellum the Truth.....which will prevail over the Inept GOPers...

[Techn0Girl]

59. America- Fuck Ya!

Jesus wept.

[tavalon]

134. It is painful isn't it

Team America destroys the world without a clue.

[MadHound]

47. Let's go through that statement there, in detail

Preventing a Great Depression? Really? With unemployment numbers running at around sixteen percent, consumer confidence down, rising poverty, and a host of other economic indicators, I would hesitate to say that Obama has done much if any good on the economic front.

Obama was elected to end the wars, which despite the semantics about "non-combat" troops, are still raging. People are still fighting and dying in Iraq and Afghanistan, with expansion into Yemen and Pakistan. That's a hell of job of managing there.

Historic health care legislation that didn't include the vastly popular public option, and that delivered the middle and working class to the tender mercies of the insurance industry on a mandated platter.

Investment in R&D equals more tax cuts and tax credits, the most ineffective forms of economic stimulus.

And if you factored in for inflation, you'll find that Obama's investment in infrastructure is no where close to Ike's, much less FDR's. And in these times, with our infrastructure crumbling and people out of work, what we need is much more like FDR's programs.

Do you really want to get into Race to the Top funds, and the part they're playing in Obama's ongoing war on public education.

But he's keeping promises, right? Like the promise to end DADT. Or that promise not to sign a HCR bill that didn't include a public option. Mmm-hmm, good job keeping those promises.

Sorry, but while Obama can talk a good line, he seems utterly incapable of walking said line. It's that simple.

[Techn0Girl]

61. Thanks for saving me the trouble :)

Let me expound on that Health care thing....

You said,"Historic health care legislation that didn't include the vastly popular public option, and that delivered the middle and working class to the tender mercies of the insurance industry on a mandated platter."

Most of the health care cheerleaders know zero or less about the bill.

1. They don't know that someone making as little 24,000 a year will be REQUIRED to pay about 2000 a year to Big Insurance.

2. They don't know that for that amount there will be a 6,000 deductible.

3. They don't know that the insurance subsidy will be in the form of a tax credit - so for the first year you will be required to pay the full premium - about $500 a month for a whole year. Got an extra 6K laying around ?

4. They don't know that if you don't pay that 500 a month premium you will get dinged an extra $700 on your income tax.

Lovely bill - all those "intellects" out there expounding its virtues are going to be singing a different tune come 2014.

Whiners.

[Amonester]

67. How can they do that to POOR people?!

And BRAG about it at nausea?

And after that, they have the gal to say to those who cannot take it anymore that it will be their fault if they don't go vote for them!

[BzaDem]

68. "Preventing a Great Depression? Really?" Um, yes, really. This is really not a hard concept.

What amazes me is the singular ability of some people here to not realize how much worse it could be. You think sixteen percent unemployment could not get MUCH worse? You think consumer confidence could not get MUCH worse? You think we have high poverty NOW, compared to the 30s? The ignorance of some people here is astounding.

"Obama was elected to end the wars"

Bullshit. Obama promised to move combat troops out of Iraq, and INTO Afghanistan. In your magical world where you hear something he says and pretend he said the exact opposite, what you said might be true, but most people couldn't give two shits about how Obama did compared to what he said in your magical world.

"and that delivered the middle and working class to the tender mercies of the insurance industry on a mandated platter."

This propaganda has been debunked so many times that anyone who is interested in facts can search DU.

Obama could do everything you wanted if he only dissolved the pesky little CONGRESS that ACTUALLY has authority over domestic policy. I'm just happy he did not do so and become the US' first military dictator.

[girl gone mad]

310. My worst case economic scenario is actually playing out globally right now.

All of the things I thought might go wrong with respect to the economic choices this administration (and the previous one) made early on appear to be coming to fruition. I had hoped that my fears were wrong, but that has not been the case. We are now facing a very uncertain future, with many potentially dangerous outcomes. I suspect that most people can sense this reality, whether or not they are able to rationalize it. That's why these attempts to take credit for averting another Great Depression fall short.

[BzaDem]

324. That implies a problem with your vision of what the "worst case economic scenario" is

You might be upset that we aren't spending more. How does a nice, large cut of (say) 1.5 trillion in spending sound next year? That's what Republicans are calling for when they say they want a "balanced budget."

You can name any aspect in your "worst case scenario," and I can name an economic choice of Republicans that is actually 10 times worse. That's why your attempts to deny credit for averting another Great Depression fall short.

[ProSense]

70. Let's look at your points.

"Preventing a Great Depression? Really? With unemployment numbers running at around sixteen percent"

First underemployment is not unemployment. You think this country is in a depression?

"Obama was elected to end the wars, which despite the semantics about "non-combat" troops, are still raging."

There is nothing semantic about withdrawing 50,000 combat troops

"Historic health care legislation that didn't include the vastly popular public option, and that delivered the middle and working class to the tender mercies of the insurance industry on a mandated platter. "

Despite your rhetoric, it's historic.

This is exactly the problem, refusing to give the President credit for a single thing. You are even trying to claim that a depression wasn't averted. Of course, that's evident by the 800,000 jobs the economy is losing each month.

You are convinced the President is a failure. Nothing he has done is of any significance. I would say he has nothing to prove to you.

[Techn0Girl]

85. Historic Give-away to Big Insurance is what that HCR bill is....

Do YOU have 500+ a month to pay for your first year of health insurance?
Well lucky YOU because I don't.

Do You already have a health insurance plan that has less than a 6000 dollar deductible.
Well lucky YOU because millions don't

Just because you have yours doesn't mean that it's OK when others get screwed over.

[BzaDem]

89. Yeah, you'll have to pay that much if you make 80k/year or more under HCR.

And no subsidized plan with HCR will have a 6k deductible.

Sorry to rain on your bullshit narrative.

[ProSense]

90. That's really funny.

Complaining that the President said "voter apathy is inexcusable" and the VP said "stop whining" by reiterating that his policies suck and he has done nothing.

I suppose if he loses your support, which he evidently already has, he'll have to find another voter to replace you.

[MadHound]

109. Oh no, blue links of death!

First, go look up the U3 and U4 numbers and I know you can add them. This is unemployment, but nice to know that you're so dismissive of underemployment as well.

You do know that the term depression is just another way to talk about a recession don't you?

What about those fifty thousand "non-combat" troops left behind in Iraq? You know, the ones that are still fighting and dying for what? The only change that has come about is Obama has put more emphasis on the Afghanistan war instead of the Iraq war. I also noticed that you did mention a thing about what's going on in Pakistan and Yemen.:think:

Didn't say that HCR wasn't historic, I am saying that it is a bad deal, a bad deal for you, me and the rest of the middle and working class. We're already starting to feel those negative effects as insurance companies jack up rates. How much will they raise them once we're all mandated to have insurance. Again, I'll let you do the math.

The President and Dems have failed. They were given a golden opportunity and frankly they squandered it. They failed to fight, fight for what the people wanted, fight for what is right. You might be able to give them a pass, but a lot of people aren't. Which brings us back to why the Dems are struggling this election cycle. If Obama and the Dems had actually done something substantive, do you think they would be in the mess they're in now? Somehow I doubt it.

[ProSense]

115. "Didn't say that HCR wasn't historic, I am saying that it is a bad deal"

Yeah, it was a historically bad deal

"The President and Dems have failed."

No, the President is succeeding. Just because you can't come to grips with that doesn't mean he's failing.

[MadHound]

146. Really? The president is succeeding?

Economy is in the tank, still. We're engaged in two illegal, immoral wars abroad, the administration continues its war against public education, civil liberties and fails to push through real reforms on a wide variety of issues. If the president was succeeding, why are he and the Dems having such a hard time getting support? You would think that with all this grand success you claim he is having that people would be flocking to the polls in support of the Dems. Instead, they are uninspired, beaten down, disappointed and disenchanted. Sorry, but millions of people are not wrong.

Oh, and HCR is a failure. Remember that as your insurance rates continue to climb through the roof over the next few years, with no control and no safe have, such as a strong public option.

[tavalon]

137. I dare you to tell anyone dealing with underemployment that they should

be okay with it.

Tell that to all the fine combat troops still in the Green Zone in Iraq.

Tell the historic line to those who must figure out how to pay the premiums on a bad policy from money they don't have because they're underemployed.

History is great, but living through it isn't all that.

[OwnedByFerrets]

271. Thank you.

[inna]

62. "to take pride in what we've accomplished" - OMG, is he fucking out of it, completely??

:wtf:

:nuke:

[BzaDem]

69. I think you may be, but Obama and the 85% of liberal Democrats that approve of him are certainly not

[inna]

74. i may be "what"?

[BzaDem]

75. "out of it, completely" (your words).

[inna]

86. your stats about 85% are WRONG, btw.

i'm fucking PISSED at this point, but i still claimed no less than "strong support" in the poll as late as last week.

the reality is that Progressive Democrats are *****fucking INCREDULOUS****** over all this shit at this point. I'm SURE it's not just the Bay Area phenomenon - although it might be more prevalent here, given all the current crap we have to deal with.

:nuke:

whatever.

[BzaDem]

87. How are you sure? Why do you even think it is true even in the Bay Area, or any other area?

It might be true among your circle of friends, but judging the entire progressive base by your own friends is not usually an accurate method.

The truth us, most liberal Democrats support Obama AND his signature policies. Sure, there are some people who are opposed to Obama (just like there were MORE people opposed to Clinton, Carter, Johnson, Truman, etc, and even people opposed to Roosevelt). But the idea that this group is somehow large is a fantasy.

[inna]

91. dude. this has absolutely NOTHING to do with Obama. it has to do with POLICIES -

which speak for themselves, and frankly have very little to do with Obama.

It absolutely boggles the mind that so many people are so profoundly disengaged (and frankly lack social and class consciousness) and instead buy into personality politics/the whole corporate media propaganda thing.


Whatever. But yeah, you're right; I think I'm out of it.

[BzaDem]

93. Large majorities of Democrats approve of HCR, FinReg, the Stimulus, etc.

So while you do bring up a valid distinction in the abstract, it does not really exist in terms of approval. Most approve of him AND his policies.

[liberation]

175. If that is the case, then why are you worried about...

... the Dems should then expect a landslide of support. No?

If the majority approves of these policies, if the majority are so enthralled with Obama's performance. Then what the fuck are you guys whining about that you have to literally go on the defensive 24/7. It should not even be an issue if all your talking points were true. And yet...

[BzaDem]

299. Just because a majority is educated doesn't mean a minority isn't ignorant, or that minority can't

swing an election in certain instances when the vote count is close.

[tavalon]

138. We're pretty astounded up here in Seattle

The daily hits against progressives have been just jaw dropping. I knew the fight was going to be hard and I'm not afraid of hard work. What I didn't know was that the fight was going to be between this administration and progressives.

[cliffordu]

291. I consider myself progressive, but take no offense at what the Prez says-

And, having met you I would NEVER believe he or Biden would be speaking about you.

(I'll get flak from certain quarters, not you, over the progressive claim....

but I do believe in
Equal rights for everyone
Unions
Free Education, k-graduate skool
Free birth control
Taxing corporations
Ending the war
single payer health care
the end of DADT, DOMA...
Election reform -
banning lobbyists altogether.
Taxing the balls off the uber-rich.)

And yet none of these things will happen in my lifetime because NO ONE in politics wants to fight these fights.

NO ONE.

Yet he takes the heat for not being able to gift these things.
I look at what is actually possible under the current congress and the current idiocy that IS the msm and understand we will live with crumbs.
And I understand that the reason most are angry is that he isn't screaming at the top of his lungs 24/7 for the things listed above.

I guess that's why I don't take offense when Smokin' Joe and he tell the more hateful of the group to knock it off.


And again -
I know you are a progressive activist, but cannot believe he is talking to you.....

[tavalon]

293. I've complained much about what's been going on and especially

about how poorly Obama has been doing at using the stage (or bully pulpit as some like to call it) so perhaps they are confusing legitimate complaints with whining. As well, even if it isn't personal, it's the suckiest GOTV plan I've ever seen. Few do GOTV or even vote out of guilt, after chastisement. So if, and I'm starting to wonder if, our side wants to win, they need to drop this tack right about yesterday. It's awful. It makes people demoralized and some, like me, quite angry.

[Cherchez la Femme]

167. He's in the exact same Group-Think bubble

as that other guy.

Mind you,

Obama: Better than Bush! *TM
Yay!

[treestar]

182. No, you are

Are you serious in your comment that he accomplished nothing to be proud of? You're so far to the left that you've a ton of work to do to convince people to vote with whoever you'd have in the WH and Congress. You're in no position to demand anything of your fellow citizens. You have to earn their votes for whatever you want. And find a strong leader.

[tavalon]

133. Speaking of whining

This does seem to be Obama's MO. He phones it in, gets less than he could have in quiet deals instead of going out to that nice big pulpit we gave him and doing some public leading and then whines that we don't see all he's accomplished. I see that he's accomplished a lot despite himself. He's better than his job performance would suggest and just because he can point to some areas where he's done okay, it doesn't absolve him from the fact that he isn't doing the public part well at all.

[walldude]

257. Yeah as long as you ignore Civil Rights for Gays

WAR, Continuation of Bush policies, Appointing Corporate Cronies to positions of power, DADT, Health Care, Jobs, Guantanamo, Legal Assassination of Americans, Bailouts, Unions, Teachers, bi-partisanship and the arrogance that they are so great we should be bowing at their fucking feet, then yeah they are doing a heck of a job.. Brownie.

[BzaDem]

63. As usual, you are blaming precisely the wrong party, playing directly into the Right's hands

It might make you feel better to think that Obama is a magical wizard who has tremendous power over domestic policy, and can get any Democrat or Republican in line with a tongue lashing or earmark.

But just because it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside does NOT mean your view bears ANY resemblance to reality.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BzaDem]

73. If you knew my actual financial situation, you would laugh at your own comments.

"Fuck yourself."

Sorry that the truth can get to you in such a manner. I guess truth really does hurt for some people. Perhaps it should be a signal to you that your perspective on the political reality of the last two years is actually not accurate (and that your Obama-bashing narrative is actually bullshit).

[Jax]

76. WOW!! You replied in one second!

24/7

Very transparent.

You got yours transparent 24/7.

VERY transparent.

[BzaDem]

78. How exactly does response time have anything to do with what portion of the day I post?

Perhaps if you replied at a different time in the morning, it would be 12 hours before I replied? Ever thought of that?

:rofl:

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BzaDem]

80. "So easy."

Because apparently debunking incorrect posts like yours' is somehow a bad thing. :sarcasm:

When the best you can do is change the subject to the times I post (without even realizing your response time is actually faster than mine in this thread), it shows that you and other Obama bashers have no actual argument.

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jax]

316. ah the I got mine right wing OMC

simile.


busted I GOT MINE!!

[dionysus]

129. when you get pwned, accuse the person of being a paid agent.

:rofl:

[BzaDem]

300. +1

[Name removed]

318. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tavalon]

139. Straw man

Those of us who are angry (and rightly so) with our own leaders have no interest in letting the party of no or that batshit crazies have it. They are distinct categories.

[frylock]

205. the republicans have been out of power for some time now..

you can look it up at any number of news sites.

[ProSense]

77. "You first....It is your job to step up and lead, but we're still waiting."

I wouldn't say it's waiting. It's more like ignoring.

The President can't force you to follow his lead.

[JTFrog]

100. +1000 n/t

[tavalon]

140. This President can't seem to force anyone

He's not good with the public part of his job and that is a big majority of his job.

[jonnyblitz]

81. k & r. nt

[Kalun D]

84. K and R

K and R

[Tarheel_Dem]

88. You promise to "bolt"? C'ya...

:rofl:

[Enthusiast]

94. K&R

Wow.

[Swamp Rat]

96. I agree, but I cannot withstand another repuke-controlled Congress

Once again I find myself choosing the lesser of two evils... so be it.

GEAUX OBAMA AND DEMOCRATS!!!

[Hubert Flottz]

97. LOL...

Herding cats like Ben Nelson is hard work! The Blue Dogs are even worse than the hard core wing nuts. Fucking bought and paid off cowards.

[HughBeaumont]

98. A President Kucinich would take a bullet.

Actually, a President Kucinich would never even get to that level since their media would marginalize such a true progressive politician into a comedy act if they do or say one damned thing wrong (see: Dean, Howard). I don't like it any more than you do, but evil just has too much power, money, media, corporations, rich people and guns on their side.

The only realistic way change is going to happen the way we want it, the way it NEEDS to happen, is with millions of US. Those with nothing to lose. In the streets. Swarming corporate offices, bursting past security guards. Sitting in THEIR offices by the hundreds until the change WE want is being met BY them. Living wage. Benefits. Health. Security. Stop treating their bread-and-butter like oxygen-thieving pieces of dogshit. Not being AFRAID of arrest. Not being AFRAID of ANYTHING.

They can't arrest ALL of us. Their police and military harm several of us, then the world WILL be watching, because foreign news isn't the rich-people's lapdog that OUR news is.

Extreme? Change sure as shit doesn't and will not happen by voting for candidates of parties that were bought and paid for around about 30-some years ago. They won't broadcast one-day protests. Third parties aren't going to rise out of the Pumpkin Patch with the media we have.

We can't even get thousands of US on the same page. Millions of us still eat. We still have homes. We're compartmentalized into box-like suburbs. The problem is that, by and large, 80% of us are largely unaffected by true suffering. Underemployment is terrible and unacceptable, but it's not unmanageable. We're always the ones who are expected to "Make do". To "suck it up", if you will, when things get tough. We're too afraid of getting arrested if we step out of line. We're too afraid of the clubs and guns of their armies. The police and military say "They'll NEVER turn their guns on the citizens . . . we ARE the citizens" . . . uh, to that I say "we'll see when push comes to shove which side you'll jump to."

More than several millions of people in this nation, unsatisfied that the 30-year mess Corporations caused and people like the Bewshes and Reagan (and to some extent, Clinton) gatekept wasn't corrected in 1.7 years are now more than willing to perform the head-shaking and aggravating act of putting a more extreme version of BushCo politicians BACK in power to continue the aiding and abetting.

What we NEED to do is start putting fear into the people that are REALLY making America a shitty place to live - the oblivious, non-caring, untouched (and sadly, with each passing day, untouchable) OWNERS of this country. They don't fear us. They have no reason whatsoever to fear us as long as half of the country thinks they're going to BE them someday.

What good is governance if it's compromised from the get-go? Our government isn't even in charge of our government anymore. Our Fourth Estate has long since stopped having any notion of honesty, integrity and truth; that sorta bullshit doesn't mean profit and riches. If it wasn't for the internet, we'd be scared little boxed-in mice-people with an eternal boot lovingly accepted on our cheeks, just like the TeaBitchers.

WE gotta take it back. We gotta find some collective power to throw at them . . . ourSELVES.

[truedelphi]

325. You make very good points.

The only one I would dicker with is your gentle treatment of Clinton.

He brought us NAFTA, he brought us the media consolidation via the Telecommunications Act of 1996, he also signed off on the Banking "reforms" that ridded the Bankers of the Glass Steagall restrictions. He gave Greenspan the go ahead on Greenspan's "bubblizing" our economy. He also was heavily in bed with Monsanto.

There was one thing he did accomplish as a stateman - he told the PBTB a big resounding "No!" when they told him a war against Iraq was needed. And to punish him, just six or seven weeks later, the Monica Lewinsky affair hit the headlines.

[Le Taz Hot]

99. K & R

for another excellent MH post. Just as an aside: I haven't been on DU consistently for the last 8 or so months and it's interesting to note that the numbers within the die-hard, blind-support Obama fans have diminished significantly.

[VMI Dem]

101. K and R.

[muffin1]

104. K&R n/t

[LWolf]

106. Insulting and browbeating are not the actions of good leaders. nt

[MadHound]

111. No they're not,

It amazes me the actions that this administration is taking. Beating his base, but reaching out across the aisle. Makes one wonder where his true allegiance lies.

[tavalon]

143. It is bizarre and mindboggling

I can't figure out where they are going with this one. It's very strange.

[EFerrari]

203. Well, maybe this is the answer to the question

"after Citizens' United, are we the base any more"? Maybe the answer is no.

[MadHound]

215. Yeah, that's a huge problem,

One that apparently Obama was willing to pay lip service to in January, but has done a thing to correct by October. Hmmm.

[EFerrari]

244. Neither party has any motivation to do squat about it.

It's easier to deal with a handful of donors than to deal with voters, isn't it?

[tavalon]

240. Yeah, in the dark nights, that has crossed my mind

It's also crossed my mind that they may be trying to throw the game. And that's hard, when the Republicans are trying even harder to throw it.

[LWolf]

285. Good point. nt

[SammyWinstonJack]

155. +1

:thumbsup:

[Panaconda]

107. K&R n/t

[bigwillq]

114. K and R (nt)

[COLGATE4]

116. K&R!!!

[Stinky The Clown]

117. Very well stated.

K&R

[EXneoCON]

118. In agreement with OP...

...I understand the obstacles. What I don't understand is the strategy utilized to take on those obstacles. Also, I don't agree with the tactic of berating the progressive wing (I'm not going to call it the "base" since the circle-D dems seem to have co-opted that descriptor. And, yes, berating is what it appears to be to me.)

Alls I knows is "This ain't my daddy's Democratic Party".

edited for spelling

[The Uncola]

123. k&r

Can't think of a thing to add. Excellent.

[Scruffy1]

125. K&R

[pecwae]

126. K&R.

Great post!

[TexasObserver]

127. Harsh, but an accurate assessment.

[Bluenorthwest]

128. The OP is clearly correct

And I note that the only 'counter points' made involve more name calling and characterizations from the same roll call sheet of posters. Side question, do internet people ever, ever grow out of slang fads? I offer that 'epic fail' and variations are the 'you go girl' of the moment. Time to put it to bed, and find a new phrase to repeat for a few years....

[Eyerish]

132. K&R

[ProSense]

136. "you can't expect that people will step up for you and the Dems."

Thanks for your support.

GOP Leaders "Democrats Have Failed to Lead"

"Democrats have failed"

[LaurenG]

141. I'm not bolting but he really needs to put a lid on his and his administrations loose lips.

I'm sick of being insulted by people I (used to) adore. I'm tired of being told to stop whining by those I am supporting and continue to support. If he can't take the criticism then he needs to bow the fuck out and let someone else take his place in 2012... Yeah I went there

edited to add used to adore.

[sonomak]

142. Leadership 101 at Podunk Community College

It's pathetic that this administration knows less about leadership than your average middle manager at Acme Industries.

[SammyWinstonJack]

156. hee hee

:spray:

[OnyxCollie]

148. K&R. nt

[mistertrickster]

150. Ditto for the Employee Free Choice Act. Since when does not voting for something mean a no vote?

Unions should be established based on the people who vote, not the people who don't vote, just like everything else in a participatory democracy.

[TBF]

152. K&R nt

[femrap]

157. Calling us

the Professional Left was the nicest thing we were called. 'Retard' and 'Whiner' really got me.

I can say 'Spineless' to this administration but that seems to have become trite and quaint.

But these insults are certainly not going to keep me from voting for my Democratic Governor, Atty. General, Auditor, Sec'y of State, and Democratic Congressional candidate. I'll vote a straight Democratic Ticket!

Why should my state suffer for what Obama and Rahm say and do? As for Rahm, good riddance and there must be a better person to be mayor of Chicago.

[Kltpzyxm]

319. agreed

We're all going to vote straight Dem ticket in the end.

But when the persuadable middle that should be more liberal based upon their interests sees how this admin treats their base, why the hell would they want to come aboard?

The strategy boggles the mind.

How did "make me do it" become "stop trying to make me do it"?

[femrap]

322. Hopefully the 'persuadable middle'

has started watching MSNBC (I see that it has made deep inroads vs. Faux News) and are actually learning about the issues.

I think this 'middle' is what the Dems and Repugnants fight over. Repugnants use 'family values' and Dems use 'individual freedoms.' That's a pretty simple differentiation....people write books on this topic.

Maybe Obama is simply too much of a 'compromiser.' I thought we really needed a 'fighter' in the vein of an FDR type. But he seems to be 'fighting' a bit more these days....of course, the Election is a month away.

It's really sad to see the entire nation go so far to the right. Goldwater and Nixon seem like teddy bears today!

The thought of Boehner becoming the Speaker makes me :puke:

Welcome to DU.

[Old Codger]

161. He Fought

Hard to get elected, then laid down, now he has waited til the last minute to attempt to get back into the fight. He, and almost all dems have just laid down and backed off and called it "compromise" they have tried to reach across the isle so to speak, despite overwhelming proof that they reps had no intentions whatsoever of cooperating in any manner other than to do their best to sink this administration regardless of the cost to the country. THEY EVEN ANNOUNCED IT ON NATIONAL TV!

(edited to add this)

I will vote dem for sure but once again it is voting for the lesser of 2 evils, I had high hopes that maybe, just maybe we were getting past that and into a time when we had real choices for real pols that would do a real job. I was wrong.

[CrispyQ]

208. “We believe we have compromised significantly, and we’re prepared to compromise further.”

That was said by John Kerry after recent talks regarding greenhouse gases. It has become the battle cry of the democratic party.

Michael Bennet is just another corporate shill, but like you, I will go to the polls & vote against the batshit crazy candidate opposing him (Buck). I too, would love to go to the polls & vote FOR someone instead of AGAINST someone. I don't see that happening anytime soon. Problem is, everytime we do this, we send the message to our party that we're ok with voting for repub-lite candidates & what do we get? More & more candidates that are repub-lite. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

How do we end this cycle?

[HughMoran]

162. Another heaping pile of garbage

Off to the scrap heap.

[grantcart]

251. and what a heap it is. "DU the most efficient clearing house of anti-Obama garbage on the web"

Not much of a selling point but still true.

[Scurrilous]

253. The OP is very bucked up.

:P

[maritzasolito]

164. Things President Obama has done:

“He was elected President. He wasn’t elected Jesus!” http://www.thepoliticalcarnival.net/2010/08/things-president-obama-has-done-he-was-elected-president-he-wasnt-elected-jesus/


"I’m sick and tired of people asking “What has Obama done?” So here’s a list of things he’s done since he’s been in office. Remember: He was elected President. He wasn’t elected Jesus!

The list is still growing. Let me know if I missed anything.

1. Saved the collapse of the American automotive industry by making GM restructure before bailing them out, and putting incentive money to help the industry

2. Shifted the focus of the war from Iraq to Afghanistan, and putting the emphasis on reducing terrorism where it should have been all along

3. Relaxed Anti-American tensions throughout the world

4. Signed order to close the prisoner “torture camp” at Guantanamo Bay

5. Has made the environment a national priority, and a primary source for job creation

6. Has made education a national priority by putting emphasis and money behind new ideas like charter schools, but speaking directly to school children in telling them they have to do their part.

7. Won the Nobel Peace Prize

8. $789 billion economic stimulus plan

9. Appointment of first Latina to the Supreme Court

10. Attractive tax write-offs for those who buy hybrid automobiles

11. Authorized construction/opening of additional health centers to care for veterans

12. Renewed dialogue with NATO and other allies and partners on strategic issues.

13. Beginning the process of reforming and restructuring the military 20 years after the Cold War to a more modern fighting force… this includes new procurement policies, increasing size of military, new technology and cyber units and operations, etc.

14. Better body armor is now being provided to our troops

15. “Cash for clunkers” program offers vouchers to trade in fuel inefficient, polluting old cars for new cars; stimulates auto sales

16. Changed the failing/status quo military command in Afghanistan

17. Closed offshore tax safe havens

18. Deployed additional troops to Afghanistan

19. Ended media “blackout” on war casualties; reporting full information

20. Ended previous policy of awarding no-bid defense contracts

21. . Ended media blackout on war casualties and the return of fallen soldiers to Dover AFB.

22. Ended previous policy of cutting the FDA and circumventing FDA rules

23. Ended previous practice of forbidding Medicare from negotiating with drug manufacturers for cheaper drugs; the federal government is now realizing hundreds of millions in savings

24. Ended previous practice of having White House aides rewrite scientific and environmental rules, regulations, and reports

25. American Recovery and Reinvestment Act has created 2.1 million jobs (as of 12/31/09).

26. Ended previous policy of not regulating and labeling carbon dioxide emissions

27. Ended previous policy of offering tax benefits to corporations who outsource American jobs; the new policy is to promote in-sourcing to bring jobs back

28. Ended previous policy on torture; the US now has a no torture policy and is in compliance with the Geneva Convention standards

29. . Launched Recovery.gov to track spending from the Recovery Act, an unprecedented step to provide transparency and accountability through technology.

30. Ended previous practice of protecting credit card companies; in place of it are new consumer protections from credit card industry’s predatory practices

31. Ended previous “stop-loss” policy that kept soldiers in Iraq/Afghanistan longer than their enlistment date

32. Energy producing plants must begin preparing to produce 15% of their energy from renewable sources

33. Established a National Performance Officer charged with saving the federal government money and making federal operations more efficient

34. Established a new cyber security office

35. Expanded the SCHIP program to cover health care for 4 million more children

36. Expanding vaccination programs

37. Families of fallen soldiers have expenses

38. . Provided the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) with more than $1.4 billion to improve services to America’s Veterans.

39. Federal support for stem-cell and new biomedical research

40. Funds for high-speed, broadband Internet access to K-12 schools

41. Responded with compassion and leadership to the earthquake in Haiti

42. Immediate and efficient response to the floods in North Dakota and other natural disasters

43. . Launched Business.gov – enabling conversation and online collaboration between small business owners, government representatives and industry experts in discussion forums relevant to starting and managing a business. Great for the economy.

44. Improved housing for military personnel

45. Improved conditions at Walter Reed Military Hospital and other military hospitals

46. Changed failing war strategy in Afghanistan.

47. Improving benefits for veterans

48. Increased infrastructure spending (roads, bridges, power plants…) after years of neglect

49. Donated his $1.4 million Nobel Prize to nonprofits.

50. Increasing opportunities in AmeriCorps program

51. Provided tax credits to first-time home buyers through the Worker, Homeownership, and Business Assistance Act of 2009 to revitalize the U.S. housing market.

52. Increasing pay and benefits for military personnel

53. Increasing student loans

54. Instituted a new policy on Cuba, allowing Cuban families to return “home” to visit loved ones

55. Cracked down on companies that deny sick pay, vacation and health insurance to workers by abusing the employee classification of independent contractor. Such companies also avoid paying Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance taxes for those workers.

56. Limited salaries of senior White House aides; cut to $100,000

57. Limits on lobbyists’ access to the White House

58. Protected 300,000 education jobs, such as teachers, principals, librarians, and counselors through the Recovery Act that would have otherwise been lost.

59. Limits on White House aides working for lobbyists after their tenure in the administration

60. Children’s Health Insurance Reauthorization Act on February 4, 2009, provides quality health care to 11 million kids – 4 million who were previously uninsured.

61. Lower drug costs for seniors

62. Making more loans available to small businesses

63. Many more press conferences and town halls and much more media access than previous administration

64. . Signed the Christopher and Dana Reeve Paralysis Act, the first piece of comprehensive legislation aimed at improving the lives of Americans living with paralysis

65. Negotiated deal with Swiss banks to permit US government to gain access to records of tax evaders and criminals

66. New Afghan War policy that limits aerial bombing and prioritizes aid, development of infrastructure, diplomacy, and good government practices by Afghans

67. Announced creation of a Joint Virtual Lifetime Electronic Record for members of the U.S. Armed Forces to improve quality of medical care.

68. New federal funding for science and research labs

69. New funds for school construction

70. Ordered all federal agencies to undertake a study and make recommendations for ways to cut spending

71. Ordered a review of all federal operations to identify and cut wasteful spending and practices

72. . Negotiated deal with Swiss banks to permit US government to gain access to records of tax evaders and criminals.

73. Phasing out the expensive F-22 war plane and other outdated weapons systems, which weren’t even used or needed in Iraq/Afghanistan

74. Reengaged in the agreements/talks on global warming and greenhouse gas emissions

75. Provided tax credit to workers thus cutting taxes for 95% of America’s working families.

76. Reengaged in the treaties/agreements to protect the Antarctic

77. Removed restrictions on embryonic stem-cell research

78. . Helped reverse a downward spiral of the stock market. On January 19, 2009, the last day of President Bush’s presidency, the Dow closed at 8,218.22. In February 2010, the Dow closed at 10,309.24

79. Renewed loan guarantees for Israel

80. Restarted the nuclear non-proliferation talks and building back up the nuclear inspection infrastructure/protocols

81. Provided attractive tax write-offs for those who buy hybrid automobiles.

82. Returned money authorized for refurbishment of White House offices and private living quarters

83. Sent envoys to Middle East and other parts of the world that had been neglected for years; reengaging in multilateral and bilateral talks and diplomacy

84. Unveiled a program on Earth Day 2009 to develop the renewable energy projects on the waters of our Outer Continental Shelf that produce electricity from wind, wave, and ocean currents. These regulations will enable, for the first time ever, the nation to tap into our ocean’s vast sustainable resources to generate clean energy in an environmentally sound and safe manner.

85. Signed national service legislation; expanded national youth service program

86. States are permitted to enact federal fuel efficiency standards above federal standards

87. Students struggling to make college loan payments can have their loans refinanced

88. Successful release of US captain held by Somali pirates; authorized the SEALS to do their job

89. The FDA is now regulating tobacco

90. Ended the previous stop-loss policy that kept soldiers in Iraq/Afghanistan longer than their enlistment date.

91. The missile defense program is being cut by $1.4 billion in 2010

92. The public can meet with federal housing insurers to refinance (the new plan can be completed in one day) a mortgage if they are having trouble paying

93. The “secret detention” facilities in Eastern Europe and elsewhere are being closed

94. US financial and banking rescue plan

95. US Navy increasing patrols off Somali coast

96. . Signed the Weapons Systems Acquisition Reform Act to stop fraud and wasteful spending in the defense procurement and contracting system.

97. Visited more countries and met with more world leaders than any president in his first six months in office

98. Improved relations with Iran

99. Improved U.S. policy on climate change

100. Set timetable for exiting Iraq (already started removing troops)

101. Improved relations with Russia

102. Improved relations with the Islamic World

103. Made progress towards greater cooperation on limiting nuclear proliferation

104. Economic stimulus plan has created jobs. (Unemployment rate decreasing)

105. Drastically slowed down the recession

106. Saved Wall Street

107. Passed the Lilly Ledbetter Act (equal work for equal pay) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilly_Ledbetter_Fair_Pay_Act_of_2009

108. HEALTH CARE REFORM

Once again, this is a lot to accomplish in such a short amount of time. He was elected President, he wasn’t elected Jesus."

[liberation]

174. Besides the fact that half of those achievements are highly subjective valuations..

... the issue has never been with the AMOUNT of stuff done, but the DIRECTION of the stuff done.


But the fact remains that it should not require rocket science to understand that an administration pushing for center-right policies is not going to go well with the left or center-left even. I know that the whole "pragmatism" BS is a fairly lazy attempt at not having to be held liable to any specific ideology, and thus pretending the admin can have it both ways. But reality doesn't work that way...

[HuckleB]

241. Reading that list, or any list I've found, it's hard to define this administration as center-right.

Center left might be accurate, but I think we'll see many of his accomplishments as huge steps of progress toward the progressive cause in the future.

[zipplewrath]

186. And for the other list

1. Saved the collapse of the American automotive industry by making GM restructure before bailing them out, and putting incentive money to help the industry

Yes, and he did it by essentially bankrupting them. It caused severe pain and a loss of jobs on the factory floor, the showroom floor, and the board room. Now, about the way he handled the banks and Wall Street..... Bonuses.

Shifted the focus of the war from Iraq to Afghanistan, and putting the emphasis on reducing terrorism where it should have been all along

He escalated one and has continued to execute the SOFA agreement of his predecessor on the other. Neither is done yet. We continue to kill innocents for no apparent reasons. And of course we continue to "execute" people, without trial, using drones, some of them American citizens.

Relaxed Anti-American tensions throughout the world

Which are now rebuilding.

4. Signed order to close the prisoner “torture camp” at Guantanamo Bay

No, he signed an order to change it's address. He still wants to maintain indefinite detentions without trial.

Has made the environment a national priority, and a primary source for job creation

Overstatement. He has allowed a return to our more normal environmental policies of the last 60 years. He has funded some technologies in relatively "green" areas.

6. Has made education a national priority by putting emphasis and money behind new ideas like charter schools, but speaking directly to school children in telling them they have to do their part.

He has gone on an attack against teachers unions, backing the privatization of education and developing his own version of NCLB. he backed the firing of every single teacher at one school despite a lack of any evidence that they had done anything wrong. Ultimately the school system chose NOT to follow such advice.

Won the Nobel Peace Prize

For what? Even he admitted that it wasn't clear he had done anything to deserve it, and then went there to make the case for more war.

$789 billion economic stimulus plan

That was too small by nearly half. Never even tried to get anything close to the correct size. Then claimed it would get unemployment to 8% by now. Now he has no foot to stand upon to ask for more.

Changed the failing/status quo military command in Afghanistan

With a new one that is failing.

Ended previous “stop-loss” policy that kept soldiers in Iraq/Afghanistan longer than their enlistment date

And won't use it to stop the expulsion of gays from the military.

35. Expanded the SCHIP program to cover health care for 4 million more children

Something congress did under Bush, but Bush wouldn't sign. Strangely, he got fewer GOP votes than Bush did, who didn't sign it.

108. HEALTH CARE REFORM

Health Insurance Industry Stimulus Package that obligated everyone to buy insurance, and made health CARE an option for the free markets.

Now, for the OTHER list. In less than 2 years he has managed to:

Dumped the public option, upon which he campaigned, and adopted the mandates, against which he campaigned, and added the cadillac tax of McCains, of which he was critical during the campaign.

Classified the torture photos.

Is prosecuting whistle blowers at a greater rate than his predecessor.

Negotiated a deal with Big Pharma to NOT allow negotiations on prescription drug prices by Medicare, even though he campaigned on exactly the opposite.

Go over to the CIA to tell the torturers that he "had their backs" and would not prosecute them.

Honor Rick Warren less than 3 months after Prop 8 passed.

Allowed the expulsion of hundreds of gay service members. And, been very sensitive to the feelings and need of the bigots in the military to make sure that they have time to study their feelings and figure out how to not hurt them if and when DADT is ever repealed.

Re-assert his position that Gays should not be allowed to get married, even after states and courts have been attempting exactly the opposite.

Do absolutely nothing on NAFTA.

Sign a federal budget with 9000 earmarks in it.

[Panaconda]

290. You might wish

to go over that list point by point as the devil is always in the details. That's a pretty sorry list to say the least.

[orbitalman]

165. Walk the Walk.

Not just talk the talk. Don't tell us to do something you are not willing to do yourself. "Buck UP" Mr President.:argh: :shrug:

[Deadgnome]

166. Honestly

I'm at the point where I wonder why we even bother with either side. Neither has OUR best interests at heart, sure there are a few here and there that are truly decent politicians and people, but in a whole these people are living in a different reality than the lower 98%.

[quinnox]

168. Strong recommendation!

This is exactly what many people are thinking, and they are all good and core liberal Democrats , and it is evident that all the typical Obama defenders don't have anything substantial with to argue against these points.

I made a similar thread about this, and all the Obama defenders had was a bunch of school yard name calling and telling me to go "Join the GOP". Is that all they got? Apparently, this is how pathetic it has gotten for these ardent and rose colored glasses wearing Obama defenders... No good arguments for them, so they have to resort to juvenile tactics!

I will say that not all Obama supporters are in this boat, for fairness. They do have some intelligent people who make good arguments, but they are quite outnumbered by the blind loyalists numbskulls who got nothing relevant to say and have to act like little tempter tantrum throwing bullies!

[Name removed]

170. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

172. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dionysus]

314. what a crock of shit.

[Name removed]

177. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MadHound]

180. LOL! You think that this post is racist, that I'm racist, that the left is racist

It is obvious that you are coming from one of two places, either you don't know me and/or the left, or your ability to successfully defend the president's actions has become so weak that you are now resorting to such bullshit tactics out of desperation. Or perhaps a combination of both. Either way, your proposition is so ludicrous, so extreme, so out there as to be laughable.

But rest assured, I'm not going to alert on you, I want the entire world to see your stupidity for their own self.

[treestar]

183. It's very right wing

to do that, too. I can't tell you how many times opposing the Bush wars were described as "cowardly." Suddenly, the use of force is "manly" again. And by the same people who are against the wars, which they claim Obama is continuing without necessity.

[EFerrari]

196. Nice race baiting there. n/t

[flyarm]

224. I read that post and I had to go away from DU for a while..

I had this horrible bile taste come into my mouth!

[treestar]

178. Well now he's finally leading you by telling you to quit whining and buck up

Why aren't you following? This is the strong leader you demanded.

Sorry but if you demand that people be "led" rather than thinking for themselves, you've put yourself down for this. He told you he has done what he could, it was a lot, given the circumstances, you are being unreasonable, just quit being unreasonable and get to work.

Now suddenly he should be reasonable and try to negotiate with you? When he did that with Lieberman or whoever else was in a position of power, you called that "weak" and "failing to lead." So now he does what you'd have had him do to Lieberman, etc., and now it's wrong?

[MadHound]

184. Wow, that was one of the more admirable twists to my OP's point, congratulations

Not that it is anywhere close to the truth, or for that matter being relevant. But it does have its humor value, so that's something.

Answer me this, where was his strength in the debate of the public option. Or in repealing DADT, restoring civil liberties, ending the wars, . . .I've got all day here.

Nobody owes their vote to a candidate, it has to be earned. Obama is acting like we owe the Dems are votes, but they have yet to truly earn it. Welcome to democracy in America. If you don't like it, I suggest you find some place else to live.

[ProSense]

188. "Nobody owes their vote to a candidate...they have yet to truly earn it:

Yeah, but that determination is up to you. You can't stop the President from calling out his critics or telling people that not voting is inexcusable.

Dems have edge over GOP on money, candidates and ideas (Howard Dean)

[DatManFromNawlins]

193. Strong leader? Give me a break.

You know when you have a strong leader? When his track record of leadership is so strong that you aren't left questioning his leadership. A strong leader recognizes his own flaws first and deals with them before running around telling everyone else they need to "buck up."

[littlewolf]

195. oh my goodness ...

wow ... excellent .....

[ProSense]

204. Really?

"When his track record of leadership is so strong that you aren't left questioning his leadership."

While the New Deal did much to lessen the worst affects of the Great Depression, its measures were not sweeping enough to restore the nation to full employment. Critics of FDR's policies, on both the right and the left, use this fact as a reason to condemn it. Conservatives argue, for example, that it went too far, and brought too much government intervention in the economy, while those on the left argue that it did not go far enough, and that in order to be truly effective, the Roosevelt Administration should have engaged in a far more comprehensive program of direct federal aid to the poor and unemployed. But the New Deal's greatest achievements transcend mere economic statistics, for in a world where democracy was under siege, and the exponents of fascism and communism flourished, the New Deal offered hope and restored the faith of the American people in their representative institutions. It also transformed the federal government into an active instrument of social justice and established a network of laws and institutions designed to protect the American economy from the worst excesses of liberal capitalism.

link

"You know when you have a strong leader? "

Do you?

[closeupready]

191. A-freaking-men.

K&R

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

199. Thank you MadHound! A resounding recommendation!

[fascisthunter]

200. Well Said.... (nt)

[EmeraldCityGrl]

201. I wish one of those people in their lawn chairs

at Obama's backyard gatherings would stand up and say what you just did.
The attitude of Biden and Obama is insulting and seems almost designed to piss
of the Left more than they already are. Given that every word that comes out of
their mouths is critiqued and rehearsed it really makes one wonder what the
objective really is.

[MissDeeds]

207. Thank you!

Excellent post. I'm just sorry it had to be written.

K&R

:kick:

[ooglymoogly]

209. KR....my sentiments exactly. nt

[democrank]

210. K&R for reply #159

[DeSwiss]

211. Exactly. - K&R n/t

[h9socialist]

212. Truce! Truce! Please!

Okay, folks, I understand both sides of the argument -- it happens every time we have a Democratic President and find out that he's not going to be agitating the workers at the Finland Station. I understand the frustrations on both sides of this argument.

But unless someone has a REALLY GOOD IDEA for how to have a progressive or social democratic seizure of political power REALLY FAST it might be well to "focus like a laser beam" on keeping the fascist Republicans out of power in Washington. It is always possible to wake up one morning and realize "We've got a BIGGER PROBLEM now!" I'd really kind of like to avoid that!

[MadHound]

214. There's a problem with that sort of mentality

Voting for the lesser of two evils inevitably winds up taking us down the same evil path anyway, perhaps at a slower pace, but certainly down the same path. In fact it is that sort of reasoning that has contributed in large part to the problems we have today.

[flyarm]

225. exactly!!!! thanks for saying it before I could! eom

[h9socialist]

226. Well then, I'm waiting on your ideas for turning things around.

Please provide ideas that could fall under the heading: POSSIBLE

[EFerrari]

230. Possible: The Obama White House suspends their Blame the Voters Tour

and helps us win this election.

[defendandprotect]

216. First we need the alibis and excuses to stop ... we need to all be understanding THIS ....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9219891&mesg_id=9223048


After that, we can go forward in trying to keep the biggest threat at the moment --

the Repugs -- from returning --

HOWEVER . . . it needs to be understood that we also need to deal with the corporate fascism

having infiltrated the Democratic Party which is also a huge and growing threat to us all.

In fact, if someone has a plan to deal with both parties at the same time, I'd love to know it!!


I see no other way to knock out Republicans than by voting for Democrats --

as distasteful as that may be for all of us right now --

and presuming that the White House doesn't throw a few more logs on this bonfire of

divisiveness and discontent they've ignited!!


:nuke:

[ProSense]

219. That's hilarious.

"First we need the alibis and excuses to stop ... we need to all be understanding THIS ....After that, we can go forward in trying to keep the biggest threat at the moment -- "

First stop defending the President and believing that he is not the lesser of two evils or that he has done anything of significance and then we can go forward?

What's that a ransom note?

How about stop whining and then we can go forward?

[defendandprotect]

227. If more alibis and attacks on liberals/progressives are "hilarious" .... then I agree ...

[TransitJohn]

238. delete

delete

[defendandprotect]

213. The thread is correct, but the underlying idea of why this is happening ....

still ignores the role that corporate money is playing in this administration's

motivations --- and their ultimate performance -- !!


IN FACT, DLC/RAHM WAS LESS SHY IN HIS 'CROWING' about the real work ...

i.e., Obama's preserving "private health care industry" ...

Here is the quote: ”In a Thursday interview, White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel argued that rather than recoiling against Obama, business leaders should be grateful for his support on at least a half-dozen counts: his advocacy of greater international trade and education reform open markets despite union skepticism; his rejection of calls from some quarters to nationalize banks during the financial meltdown; the rescue of the automobile industry; the fact that the

overhaul of health care preserved the private delivery system;

the fact that billions in the stimulus package benefited business with lucrative new contracts, and that financial regulation reform will take away the uncertainty that existed with a broken, pre-crash regulatory apparatus.

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=B2F85DDF-18...



Notice -- Rahm is also "crowing" about privatizing public education !!

Obama, as far as I can see, is just begging for more time to finish the further PRIVATIZATION

of government and its systems --

The "Cat Food Commission" seems to be up next to privatize SOCIAL SECURITY and MEDICARE!!

What Bush couldn't do, Obama seems set to do!!

In fact, we've had Democrats actually having to officially make clear to Obama that

they will not support attacks on Social Security!!



The above was posted at DU on 8/12/10 by another poster ---

[Name removed]

218. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[joeybee12]

223. Great...KNR...now call Jann Wenner and get this published as a response!

[HuckleB]

231. Actually, Obama has manned up quite well.

Yes, we all wanted more, but the fact is that he has accomplished more to date than any president in my lifetime did to this point in his first term: BY FAR!

http://vodpod.com/watch/3910601-maddow-president-obamas-legislative-accomplishments

[laureloak]

234. So glad to know Democrats have your support.

[RedCloud]

245. Stop taking us for granted and get rid of your conservative cabinet!

[Name removed]

247. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[anachro1]

249. And as Obama

continues to gorvel for republican acceptance, my post staTing such here was REMOVED.

FREE SPEECH MY ASS.

[bobburgster]

250. Another Obama bashing thread....ho hum....

I wouldn't mind if even 25% of the posts were accurate, and not just filled with teabagger venom.

How the hell are you supposed to try and discuss anything?

[MadHound]

254. So tell me then, what in my OP is inaccurate?

Is it inaccurate to state that the president and the Dems are refusing to fight, since they haven't forced a real live filibuster?

Is it inaccurate to state the the president and the Dems have failed to reward the left for our support by passing at least one major piece of progressive legislation?

Is it inaccurate to state that one of the worst election year tactics you can undertake is to insult and browbeat your base?

Is it inaccurate to state that the American public wants results, not promises?

Tell me, what inaccuracies are in my OP?

[ProSense]

258. Makes you wonder

how FDR survived

[MadHound]

259. By throwing his base, the left, some red meat.

During his first term as president, it became apparent to the FDR that the Socialist party was posing a huge reelection threat from the left. They couldn't win the presidency, but by siphoning off a lot of votes from FDR, they could have doomed him to being a one term president.

Rather than ranting and railing against his base, he went into the Socialist party platform and nicked a couple of their issues, made them his own and pushed them through Congress. As a result, those who were thinking about voting Socialist in '36 decided that they could get a fair shake from FDR and backed him time and again at the polls.

It's really a good thing that this happened, because without the left demanding to be heard we wouldn't have got two of the largest bulwarks of the New Deal, Social Security and Unemployment Insurance.

That's how FDR survived, not by browbeating the left, but by making it worthwhile for the left to vote for him. A lesson that Obama could learn.

[RetroLounge]

265. You must be mistaken

I don't see any blue links or circle Ds in your poat.

:sarcasm:

RL

[MadHound]

267. Nope, no circle D's

Just that peace sign as my avatar. I put that up during the Bush regime, hoped to take it down during the Obama regime, and have now resigned myself to the fact that it might be up there for a really, really long time.

A shame too, I really want to put a Chief's avatar up, they're doing so well these days. But peace it is, until all our troops come home and we end these illegal, immoral wars of empire.

[RetroLounge]

268. Agreed

:hi:

RL

[ProSense]

273. Oh please,

that's revisionist history:

The administration, of course, didn't simply take all this criticism laying down, and they engaged in their fair share of what many liberals would characterize today as "hippie-punching".

For example, Secretary of the Interior and PWA head Harold Ickes, in a letter to the editor of The Nation, wrote -


"that so-called liberals spend so much time trying to expose fellow liberals to the sneering scorn of those who delight to have their attention called to clay feet...I get very tired of the smug self-satisfaction, the holier-than-thou attitude, the sneering meticulousness of men and women with whose outlook on economic and social questions I often regretfully find myself in accord. It seems to be a fact that a reformer would rather hold up to ridicule another reformer because of some newly discovered fly speck than he would to clean out Tammany Hall. Sometimes even the fly speck is imaginary." (Schlesinger, The Politics of Upheaval, 413-414)


There was also this, from Rex Tugwell, one of the most liberal members of the administration, who you would think would have some sympathy with Roosevelt's liberal critics:


"They complain incessantly that the administration is moving into the conservative camp, but do nothing to keep it from going there. The progressive mind is stratified with dogmatism of the most appalling kind...The progressive theme-song is 'I'll tell you about my panacea but you must not tell me about your panacea.'" The progressives seemed to Tugwell perennial skirmishers – free, like feudal chieftains, to change sides whenever the ideas to which they held allegiance prompted them to do so. "They are like Chinese warriors who decide battles, not by fighting, but by desertion...They rush to the aid of any liberal victor, and then proceed to stab him in the back when he fails to perform the mental impossibility of subscribing unconditionally to their dozen or more conflicting principles." (Schlesinger, The Politics of Upheaval, 414)


And lastly, there is this letter to DNC member Molly Dewson, in response to complaints about the administration:


"The ups and downs in peoples’ feelings, particularly on the liberal side, are an old, old story. The liberals always get discouraged when they do not see the measures they are interested in go through immediately. Considering the time we have had to work in the past for almost every slight improvement, I should think they might get over with it, but they never do.

Franklin says for Heaven’s sake, all you Democratic leaders calm down and feel sure of ultimate success. It will do a lot in satisfying other people." (Schlesinger, The Politics of Upheaval, 9)


The author of that letter was that notorious hippie-puncher, Eleanor Roosevelt, essentially telling liberals on behalf of her husband, "Chill the fuck out, I've got this".

more

[BzaDem]

301. Thank you for interjecting facts into a fact-free OP. n/t

[MadHound]

302. No, that actually happened,

Your link deals with Huey Long, not the Socialist party. I would recommend that you broaden you education concerning the FDR administration beyond Schlesinger. He made his bones with the Kennedys, mainly because he had access. But his analysis of other historical figures has been pedestrian at best, very much like a river that is a mile wide and only a foot deep.

[bobburgster]

315. OK...here you go.

"You have gone after teachers, anti-war activists, civil libertarians, the LGBT community and more."

A number of points you made are gross oversimplifications, the above sentence being an example, of specific criticisms he may have made to some of the above mentioned groups. I am a teacher, and I agree with some of his criticisms regarding us.

Just because he might point out faults, or behaviors, he does not agree with regarding groups who supported him, does not make it a wholesale rejection of them.

After all, this comes less than a week after the Dems threw in the towel on the Bush tax cuts.]b]

I think you are mistaken that Obama threw in the towel on the Bush tax cuts

*He listened to the progressives about Elizabeth Warren, because we both know Rahm was against her.
*He passed Health Care, which is big. Remember, it took 8 years to get all the major components of Civil Rights passed. I do agree though, he should have fought harder for a Public Option.
*Setting a fixed timetable for withdrawing U.S. combat forces from Iraq.
*Signing a law meant to improve the ability of women who allege pay discrimination to sue their employer.

I could spend more time, but you get my point. I am not a blind follower either. There are number of positions of his that bother the hell out of me. The "Big Brother" Homeland Security invasion of our privacy for one. But, I do believe he is a good man trying to do well for his nation, so I will continue to support him, and bitch at him too.

[MadHound]

320. Let me ask you a few things

You say you're a teacher, and that you agree with some of Obama's criticisms of teaching. Do you agree with the direction that Obama and Duncan want to go with education, namely charter schools and privatized education? Do you think that it is appropriate pedagogy to have an ever increasing emphasis on testing, testing and more testing? Do you think that it is fair to the teacher to be judged solely on the basis of those tests? Finally, do you think that public education is fully funded?

If he hasn't thrown in the towel on the Bush tax cuts, then tell me, why didn't the Dems put it to a vote before the election?

You mention health care, but the fact of the matter is that he blew that. He broke his promise to not sign a HCR bill without a public option. Thus, Obama and the Dems consigned us all to the tender mercies of the insurance industry, to whom we were delivered up on a mandated monopoly.

And really now, stop playing semantic games about "combat" and "non-combat" troops. The troops in Iraq are still fighting, still dying. The only difference in Obama's war policy is that he has reversed the emphasis from Bush. Obama is now emphasizing the war in Afghanistan and deemphasizing the war in Iraq. And let's not forget, he is also expanding the Afghanistan war into Pakistan, illegally, along with Yemen and elsewhere.

You think that he is a good man, that's fine. But the question is whether or not he is an effective president. So far the answer is, in my opinion, no. Until he is willing to step up to the bully pulpit and beat on 'Pugs for their obstructionism rather than Dems and progressives, all he has proven is his lack of leadership ability.

[bobburgster]

323. Okay

No, I do not believe in a policy that is charter schools and privatized education only. Charter schools have their place, in my opinion, but I'm against privatized education. There is room for a both public, and charter, which is the direction I believe he is going.

I do think that it is appropriate valid national assessments for all students. You can not improve diddlysquat if you can not locate the instructional weaknesses. Parental support, or lack of, is an area that is in dire need of being evaluated and addressed, because the impact is big.

No public education is not fully funded....by a long shot.

As far as the Bush tax cuts, that's the chicken shits in Congress, not Obama.

Health Care....he took the first step...while fighting with half his own party in Congress being the obstructionist. If he did what you asked, there would be no HC, and you would still be pissed at him. I believe if we continue to support him he will work to improve HC.

I disagree with your Iraq statement....we should probably leave it at that.

I believe he is a very effective president! I do believe he needs to utilize his bully pulpit and beat on 'Pugs for their obstructionism consistently. I do think he was wrong to lash out at progressives publicly, just as I feel it is wrong for progressives to lash out at him publicly. We only hurt our party and strengthen the republicans.

I appreciate your taking the time to post back!

[ecstatic]

260. You lost me at "man up"

Try again.

[MadHound]

262. Your loss then

If you're going to lose sight of the bigger picture by quibbling about semantic details, then that is your problem, not mine. If you think that the term "man up" is somehow sexist, I'll inform my lesbian friends and relatives of your opinion, they need a good laugh, and being ex military, still use the term.

[earth mom]

263. Man Up. That's exactly what it will take.

Huge K & R from me! :kick:

[MadHound]

264. Thank you,

I always appreciate your insight, viewpoint and support.

[earth mom]

266. Same back at ya! And thank you for being brave and honest!

:hi:

[Lorien]

269. K & R for the truth. nt

[OwnedByFerrets]

270. I adamantly defend the president against repugs, but when talking

to democrats I will certainly tell them how disappointed I am in the current administration. Thank you for saying whats been on my chest. It was stated well.

[Divine Discontent]

274. there are MULTIPLE issues where the WH has acted against policy that we would want as Progressives

or has not acted on behalf of Progressives. I am saddened he hasn't been tougher. He hasn't been a failure by any means, B*SH was a failure, a horrible failure, but the President has failed to lead his Congress in a strong enough manner to break through and take advantage of issues that were there for the taking on several fronts, like Healthcare where the Admin just went hard against anything representing what his voters wanted.... well, a large large majority of his voters.

[pmorlan1]

275. Support is Not a One-Way Street

Thank you.

I'm tired of this administration thinking that support is a one way street.

[YankeeLeft7x]

284. Sadly, the DLC Democrats Do View It That Way

The DLC Democrats do view it that way because they believe the various groups which still back the party have nowhere else to go.

The DLC Democratc have exploited this weakness for years and years and Al From is one of the worst.

It would be great if the liberal-left worked hard to defeat Rahm Emanuel when he runs for Mayor of Chicago and back his Democratic Party challenger.

[Bonobo]

276. Kick. And a question.

Obama is going to either get more conservative or more progressive after the election.

So here's the question:

How can voters have an impact on him becoming more conservative or more progressive? In the mid-terms, how can we send Mr. Obama a message.

Do we vote as if it is all okay? Do e send him the enabling message that he has our votes no matter how he disappoints us and fails to set a higher bar for his administration? What message would Mr. Obama receive? My assumption is that it would be business as usual if all the progressives voted as if nothing had changed.

On the other hand, what message would e receive if he saw his once-loyal progressives sitting on their hands? How would THAT affect his strategy the next 2 years.


Food for thought.

[Name removed]

277. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ecstatic]

286. +1000.

I'm sick of seeing BS like this on DU.

[chill_wind]

297. Stop. Just stop.

This is just desperate:

>"Man up"? Are you saying that our first black president is still a "boy"?

Whatever you think you're saying, I feel you're being racially insensitive.<

[MadHound]

313. It is how some fight back around here,

They can't fight with facts, so they use innuendo and insults instead.

[MadHound]

308. Well first of all, I find it interesting that you're implying I'm a racist

Seems to be a common tactic among those who can't discuss the facts, so instead rely on insults, false indignation and innuendo to carry the day. More intellectual bankruptcy.

Second, perhaps you should stop relying on other people's posts for your history lessons and actually go out and read some books. Perhaps you'll then find out what really happened. Real history, real historical analysis relies on more than one historian, more than one book. Huey Long was indeed a threat to FDR, but he wasn't the only one. And while Schlesinger was a fine historian for the Kennedy's, he was, overall, a rather pedestrian historical analysis. The fact that he was a courtier at Kennedy's Camelot, and a member of the OSS (precursor to the CIA) doesn't do much for his objectivity either.

But hey, if that's too much heavy lifting for you, fine by me. You're simply making yourself look foolish, but hey, we all like a good laugh.

[WillyT]

279. HUGE K & R !!!

:applause::applause::applause:

:yourock:

:kick:

:hi:

[bertman]

281. Proud to be the 232nd REC. Thank you, MadHound. nt

[lonestarnot]

282. K & R

[Name removed]

283. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cliffordu]

288. "man up"

Fuck me what fatuous insult.

Pretty kool if your team is losing at touch football and you have to lecture a fat 30 year old with a nosebleed, but using it to lecture the President of the United States, not so much.

Thinking about it, your entire screed is pretty juvenile.

A content free excretion of hubris and cluelessness, told by a 'progressive' signifying nothing.

[EFerrari]

306. Damn, there goes another irony meter.

[MadHound]

309. Ah, so it's OK if the administration addresses us as if we were children,

Tell us to buck up, and even recommending that critics need drug testing. But somehow saying that he needs to man up is a gross insult.

That truly is funny on so many different levels.

[AlinPA]

292. After reading all this, it looks like support for the President has being abandoned on DU. The OP

claims that he wants to see the President succeed, but the replies are mostly echoes of many who have quit on the President. This is not good at this point.

[jgraz]

294. Happy to rec this excellent post.

:applause:

[MrMickeysMom]

295. Much has been expressed here, very necessary, K&R

So, we have a lot of work to do.

I recognized what he walked into. I'm no fool.

I do not and will not for some long time recall that I ever thought he was progressive more than I thought "University of Chicago" and everything that goes with that legend. Can't find too many progressives from that part of the nation, can we?

What I do think is that we have to keep pushing him and stepping up into roles that we previously thought not to. It's not easy and someone has to be either a real citizen activist, or get involved locally.

IOW, we have to push our own selves as hard as we keep pushing this President.

That is all.

[quiet.american]

296. Unrec. Total horse-hockey. And totally predictable. nt

[Name removed]

298. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

303. "Instead, he says - 'let them eat cake'"

The President is Marie Antoinette?

I don't understand it, either. The stimulus included not only the broad Making Work Pay tax cut that gave most families an $800 refundable tax credit but also the child tax credit and the earned-income tax credit, which were especially helpful to lower-income families.

If the child tax credit isn't extended, 7.6 million children who get the benefit through their families would lose it entirely, and the credit would be reduced for an additional 10.5 million children. The biggest losses, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, would be among families earning $12,850 to $16,333, many of which include a parent working full time for minimum wage. Also set to expire are expansions of the earned-income tax credit that have helped working families that include 14.9 million children.

Tell me again: Why is it more important to preserve millionaires' tax cuts than to continue helping these far more vulnerable Americans? Why are Republican leaders who argue that failing to extend all of the Bush tax cuts would constitute a tax increase not saying exactly the same thing about the Obama tax cuts? Is it blind ideology, an exceptional solicitude for people with very high incomes or the fact that Obama's cuts were packaged into the dreaded stimulus?

link

The Making Work Pay tax credit is still in effect for the 2010 returns. The stimulus increased food stamp benefits and kept millions out of poverty.

The left's lack of faith has become a self-fulfilling "prophecy"--
snipe at the President and then watch the poll numbers fall and
then pretend you didn't have anything to do with it!

link

[Name removed]

304. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[yurbud]

305. kick!

[Jax]

317. Thanks MadHound From a Day One DUer

You are the original DU Democrat.

Thank you your efforts are OUTSTANDING.

khephra said it best here.

khephra said in 2002 on these forums that "the further the Democratic Party moves to the right it allows an already far right republican party to move even further right without seeming extreme".



He got it.

[MadHound]

321. Yes, yes he did

And sadly, it looks as though the party is moving further to the right every day.

Thank you for your kind words, that means a lot since there aren't a lot of us "old timers" left around here.