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So where's the message? Where's the platform? Where's the substance?

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Panaconda Donating Member (672 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 07:19 AM
Original message
So where's the message? Where's the platform? Where's the substance?
Can we get down to a "facts on the ground" political program? Not seeing it out there, anywhere.

Can we get to some substantial discussion of the real problems and real solutions to these problems? Nowhere to be found in what passes for this years election season.

Can we even get a sense that these politicians understand what us serfs must endure in our day to struggle to maintain roof over head and food in stomach? Not even a whiff of understanding from these clowns- all of them.

Please don't even try to say the outrage and/or antipathy towards the whole process is not justified. You wonder why people don't give a damn? Cause they know none of these corporate hacks truly represents their interests for if they did those seeking our support would be talking and DOING something about all of our problems.

They aren't.
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alc Donating Member (649 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. maybe you're not listening
message: you need to vote
platform: we're better than the alternative
substance: if you have to ask you should be drug tested

I agree with you completely. I want to hear the administration talk about what they have done instead of just referring to the list in Obama's pocket. And talk about what they plan/want to do - I haven't heard anything along these lines. Do they plan to fix health reform? How? When? What else do they want to do?

And the candidates should do the same, but geared toward their district (some need to avoid health reform or really push the fixes). And candidates' attacks should be on their opponents, not Obama, Pelosi, health reform, etc. Those attacks make all Democrat candidates look bad.
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Scuba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Nailed it.
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. +2 nt
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Scruffy1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
2. It's not about our problems
It's all about power. The crazy teabaggers are just a way to get people to vote for some dems who suck a little less. The health care "reform was all about perpetuating a for profit insurance company system. Sure they gave a few crumbs, but it won't hurt their bottom lines.
The wars go on, no war criminal is ever prosecuted. The financial criminals make more than ever before. What's not to like? If you thought by voting Denocrat you would change the ownership of America
you need to get serious mental help. Those in power are laughing their ass off at us knowing that we'll
hold our nose and vote for them and they don't really have to a bit "progressive". It's all a farce in three acts.
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rock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
4. Politician's follow the Madison Avenue rules
Don't inform the consumer (voter); get him to buy (vote for) our product. This applies to do both Dems and Repukes.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
5. you're talking about REPUBLICANS right? otherwise you're in the wrong house
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Cal Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
6. I'm starting to realize
that the electoral/legislative political aspect of things does not, will not, cannot address the meat-and-potatoes of the struggle people are facing. Nothing is more stunning to me than recent statistics (eg the census numbers from 2009) which indicate the extent to which a small number of very rich people control a huge amount of wealth while the poor keep getting poorer in this country. Neither major party can or will address this in a meaningful way, because by and large they *are* those enormously wealthy people. And even moreso - our government is designed to protect their wealth, to protect private property, not to work for the common good or any other fairy tale. And this is the root of people's daily struggle.

This is becoming more and more clear now.

Now, it could be argued that it's always been this way...which in a sense is true but what's really shocking to me is that the rhetoric, lip-service, the crumbs, the 'issues' that have served in the past to keep people interested in electoral politics and keep up the us vs them mentality of the electorate (aka divide and conquer) are weaker than shit these days. It's like no one is even pretending.

There are certainly people who are still motivated to elect Democrats for one reason or another. The loudest argument I've heard this time around is the 'lesser of two evils' because even the so-called 'wedge' issues are no longer in play - GLBT rights, for example, or the environment, schools, energy and so forth....we have seen that none of these are real priorities for the politicians of either party.

Even those who are enthusiastic, working GOTV, etc for the Dems say (in response to criticism of the last 2 yrs) 'well, they can only do so much, what do you expect?' - and they are right! So the question is, how much change do we want? And if it's real health care reform, or real public school funding, or real environmental protection, or people mattering more than profits, if it's these things that we want, then it's time to recognize that the answer is *not* in the voting booth.

People are starting to realize they are being used - this is true for *both parties* (I could give anecdotes for this but you all know the story). And people are starting to realize that while they will still likely go out and vote for the Dem ticket, the -real- fight that must be fought has to be independent of the political parties. It has to come from the ground up and be a different sort of movement. That's how it has worked in the past in this country - no major party has ever handed anything to the people - the people have gotten in the streets, have held strikes and so forth to force the hand of the politicians - in some cases they gave their lives for it.. And we see it elsewhere in the world now, throughout parts of Europe - France, Greece, etc..they have to fight to keep what they've gotten. Why don't we fight to keep all the things the labor movement achieved in the last century, that has been eroded ever since?

The key is getting voices heard who speak in these terms - that yeah, sure, voting has it's role but it is just one small part of things - if you want real change.. It's not about Obama or any other Dem candidate or whether they are 'trying' or whether they are a good person with good ideals, it's not about the party at all.*There is more to it than electoral politics*...

What I don't understand is why some are so averse to recognizing this. We'll never get anywhere unless we look at the *reality* of what elected politicians can and cannot accomplish. Not the 'hopes' but the reality.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. PLEASE make something like this an op...
and let me know when you do!
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Cal Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
8. Huh
For some reason I thought a post like this may cause a firestorm. Maybe it's too hot to handle?

The danger in a post like this is exposing the fact that voting is about 2% of what you need to accomplish any real change for the common good, however you may define that. The real work, the real battle, is outside the voting booth and is independent of the parties.

If we start talking honestly about what partisan 'battles' and electoral/legislative 'accomplishments' actually accomplish, then maybe we'd have to realize it just ain't there, and it never will be...

and then the partisan stuff would be a lot less interesting...

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Panaconda Donating Member (672 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. I thought
people might want to talk about it.

Good post up-thread Cal.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
10. K&Rnt
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