'Gothard even advises a wife whose husband chastises her to say, "God, thank you for this beating.'

[Shallah Kali]

Creating Good Little Robots
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2010/09/god-thank-you-for-this-beating-creating.html


by digby

Bill Gothard, Daniel Webster's mentor: http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,944839,00.html

His opening lecture on self-acceptance closes with a prayer to "give God a vote of confidence for how he has made us so far." Next comes family life. Children must be totally obedient. A religious teenager, for example, should not attend a church college if atheistic parents order him not to. As for a man's wife, she "has to realize that God accomplishes his ultimate will through the decisions of the husband, even when the husband is wrong." Citing I Thessalonians 5:18 ("In every thing give thanks"), Gothard even advises a wife whose husband chastises her to say, "God, thank you for this beating."

Besides following the chain of command in the family, Christians should also be obedient to their employers and their government, Gothard asserts. Only if an order from a parent, the state or a boss conflicts with God's explicit commandments may it be disobeyed.

snip

“I enjoy the advice he’s given,” Webster said of Gothard. “I think it’s been a major part of my life. I’m not ashamed of that. What he has said I believe to be the truth.” {St. Petersburg Times, 2/16/97, 9/28/03; Sarasota Herald Tribune, 3/09/97}

Grayson's Opponent Is A Member of the Hardcore Theocratic Right
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2010/09/graysons-opponent-is-longstanding.html

OOPS! Grayson's opponent tied to "Biblical Stoning" movement
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/9/29/906308/-BREAKING-Graysons-opponent-tied-to-Biblical-Stoning-movement

Did The "Taliban Dan" Ad "Backfire?"
http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispatches/sarahposner/3434/did_the_%22taliban_dan%22_ad_%22backfire%22/print

Factcheck.org asserts that the quotes were taken out of context, claiming Webster was saying not to pick and choose Bible verses, and was pointing out that he doesn't pick and choose only the ones about wifely submission.

But Joyce tells me Factcheck.org misunderstands Webster's statements, even in context:

While the Grayson campaign can be taken to task for taking Webster's comment out of context, in the larger context, they're correct. Grayson's campaign argued that Webster seemed to be supporting submission in his comments to an audience of conservative men, whom he directed to pray that they would better fulfill their biblical duty to love their wives, and leave prayers about women's submission to their wives. However, the emphasis of these remarks, as those familiar with Christian rhetoric could recognize, is not on the optional nature of wives' submission. Wifely submission is part of an often-unbalanced equation to Christians who subscribe to "complementarian" or "patriarchal" marriage roles, where men must "love" and women "obey." Saying that a woman should pray for God's guidance in submission, if she wants to, is not leniency, but rather standard evangelical language that emphasizes individuals must obey biblical mandates regardless of how others around them behave. So, Webster is saying, men must be accountable to God for their responsibility to love their wives regardless of whether she submits -- that they must pray to do right, even if she doesn't.
However, the much more relevant application of this principle on following God's orders despite your circumstances is on women. Submission is a contentious and tricky issue even within conservative evangelical churches. Most churches promoting submission make certain to couple demands for submissive wives with those for loving, servant-leader husbands. But at the end of the day, it's women who bear the brunt of the principle; their obligations are to God, not to a husband who may or may not keep his end of the contract. Accordingly, the message is impressed by countless women's ministries and leaders that women must continue submitting even when their husband doesn't show love, because they owe their obedience, above all, to God. In circles that take submission seriously -- as does any organization associated with Bill Gothard -- that's what wives' options really look like.

Cult of Character
How the ‘secular’ Character Training Institute is working to build evangelist Bill Gothard’s vision of a First-Century Kingdom of God—one city, one state, one school board, one police force and one mind at a time.
http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/2450/

Sarah Palin, faith-based mayor
How the vice-presidential nominee brought fringe biblical teachings to her work as the chief of Wasilla, Alaska.
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/09/18/palin_iacc

Huckabee Hearts Gothard
http://www.cincinnatibeacon.com/index.php/content/comments/huckabee_hearts_gothard/

[dixiegrrrrl]

1. American Taliban, for real.

[XemaSab]

2. Gothard is way out there

n/t

[Radical Activist]

3. WTF

Yes, those attitudes are definitely 1st century.

[Swamp Rat]

4. k&r

[Nite Owl]

5. Grayson's ad was great

Dems shouldn't be afraid of calling out these extremists, they are dangerous.

[MattBaggins]

6. I was mentioning this to my wife last night when Webster was on Fox

He repeated his so called "context" defense by re-stating that he meant men should not pray for wives to be submissive for that is their responsibility. The idiots on Fox just nodded as if he had nailed Grayson for the comments. Webster's comment clearly indicates he feels a woman should be submissive just that the husband shouldn't pray for that; that the woman should.

The Grayson campaign was stupid for distilling the words the way he did; but in the end he was correct.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

7. Wasn't Gotherd on True Blood?

If not, he should have been.

[McCamy Taylor]

8. Pedophiles ought to love this guy. If daddy wants to f**k his daughter, God tells her to submit.

[Blue Owl]

9. "God, thank you for this beating."

Now send me money.

[WillyT]

10. K & R !!!

:kick:

[Shallah Kali]

11. More on Gothard

Dominionism and child abuse, part 2
Share
by dogemperor
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/14/114136/732/786/371430

Virgin Academy
At Dallas' old Ambassador hotel, Mr. Gothard's good girls learn the virtues of remaining pure
By Julie Lyons
published: July 20, 1995
http://www.dallasobserver.com/content/printVersion/270283/


September 30, 2010
The Real Context Of The "Taliban Dan" Ad
Post by Julie Ingersoll
http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispatches/julieingersoll/3449/the_real_context_of_the_%22taliban_dan%22_ad

September 30, 2010
Dan Webster's Gothard-Speak
Post by Sarah Posner
http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispatches/sarahposner/3450/dan_webster%27s_gothard-speak

[Shallah Kali]

12. Matthew Murray: an American tragedy

please click through to read this article. It includes extensive links to source material. there is no way for me to pick the right quotes to post here so I will start with the beginning:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/12/14/421737/-Matthew-Murray:-an-American-tragedy

It has taken me several days to be able to work myself up to a post on this, because in all too many ways it hits very much at home for me.

Most of you by now have heard of the tragic church shootings by Matthew Murray at two dominionist churches over the weekend. Many of you have even heard about how he supposedly "hated Christians".

What most of you have not heard yet--Matthew Murray is possibly one of the most tragic results of coercive tactics in dominionist churches. In essence, it appears that he may have essentially had a mental breakdown with semiautomatic weapons--despite the best efforts of at least two walkaway forums he was a member of to try to talk him down from the bloodshed.


snip

As a walkaway and survivor of much of the stuff Matthew Murray experienced, every day I am thankful for the chance I had to see "the outside world"--I grew up just before dominionist "home education" really caught on, for instance. Had correspondence schools been in vogue in the 70's and 80s, there is a very real chance I may not have ever escaped.

[Brickbat]

13. So very sad that people feel so empty they're willing to believe this sick crap.

[Shallah Kali]

14. Hobby Lobby, Gothard, and the funding of "Joel's Army with guns"

Lots of information so please click through to read and see links to source material. some might be dead as this was written several years ago, if so please try archive.org

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/7/163753/4705/414/452169

We've written distressingly frequently on Gothard's paramilitary frontgroup ALERT Teams--a group that can literally be described as "God Warriors with Guns" (and at least one anonymous reporter has noted to me--I am trying to get secondary verification of this--of possible training with assault weapons, at that), which has disturbing links to US Air Force commanders as well as police departments and other public safety officials via Gothard frontgroup PDI.

It also appears that a website focusing towards Church of God devotees--and potentially Worldwide Church of God, at that--has made an announcement about the departure of Ron Fuhrman from the hydra of Gothard frontgroups including ALERT:

snip

Interestingly, the article also mentions that ALERT is a male-only organisation; this would fit in with not only the paramilitary aspects, but with Gothard's teachings that women must have the "covering of their husbands or their fathers" and that the place of the woman in the home is to be barefoot, pregnant, led around by her husband, and squirting out "quiverfulls" of future "God Warriors" for "Joel's Army" by the litter. (And no, I am not exaggerating on that last point; the Duggar family is a Gothardite family and held up as a prime example of a "Godly" household in Gothard's groups.)


snip

As noted, some of the concerns about this center around what seem to be a meeting of coercive groups--Hobby Lobby's funding of known coercive orgs (including the Assemblies front Teen Challenge--which indirectly led to the total deregulation of "Bible-based boot camps" and similar facilities in Texas from 1994 to 2003 when Dubya passed a broad licensing exemption for "faith based" facilities for children--due to accusations of abuse at the Texas Teen Challenge facility; this, ironically, made it easy for ALERT Teams to set up shop in TX), Gothard's coercive groups, and the WWCoG.

lots more info on Gothard here: http://www.dailykos.com/tag/Bill%20Gothard

[Initech]

15. WTF is wrong with the fundies?