"Underground" Group of Cadets Say Air Force Academy Controlled by Evangelicals

[RamboLiberal]

An anonymous cadet at the US Air Force Academy (USAFA ) spoke out against alleged religious discrimination at the school last week, saying that some cadets must pretend to be evangelical Christians in order to maintain standing among their peers and superiors. In an email to the Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF), the whistleblower stated that he is part of an "underground group" of about 100 cadets who cannot rely on proper channels to confront evangelical pressure.

The email, published by Veterans Today, applauds the MRFF from the "underground" and indicates that the academy is "literally overrun with Christian conservative fanatics."

The MRFF and allies from a myriad of civil rights and interfaith groups sent a letter Tuesday to the Department of Defense (DoD) detailing the cadet's email and other startling complaints, including testimony from the parents of an academy graduate who believe their daughter was "methodically brain washed" by a fundamentalist group there, demanding an investigation of the academy and the evangelical academy ministry Cadets For Christ.

The MRFF is also demanding the DoD pressure the USAFA to publicly release the results of a study of the religious climate at the academy.

http://www.truth-out.org/underground-group-cadets-say-air-force-academy-controlled-evangelicals63726

[KittyWampus]

1. this always seems to get swept under the run along with rape crimes.

[Lorien]

51. +1. nt

[mzteris]

100. hmmm - rape... evangelicals ... rape ... evangelicals... n/t

[louis-t]

2. Teaching cadets to "go kill for Jesus".

"Every time you bomb a village you are doing God's work." :eyes:

[Cal33]

9. Can those Evangelicals be much different from the Taliban?

The trouble is, both of them don't know how much alike they are

[gratuitous]

12. All the difference in the world

One has access to the most sophisticated fighter jets the American taxpayer can buy. And nukes.

[jgraz]

45. Bingo.

[RKP5637]

16. Same concept, different faith. n/t

[Tesha]

35. I'm not really sure it's a different faith.

Aren't they both basically phallus worshippers?

Tesha

[RKP5637]

49. Excellent point!!! n/t

[Obamanaut]

47. There's some difference. The stonings and nose snipping I've read

about have all been from one group.

[bergie321]

56. It's much more civilized

To drop a bomb from 10,000 feet with a remote controlled airplane...

:sarcasm:

[Hannah Bell]

64. +100.

[pinboy3niner]

68. ...on a wedding party

Kinda cements the memories of the happy day in the minds of...the survivors...

[Obamanaut]

78. There is still something of a difference. One group, by its actions, says

"We want your stuff/oil, and we will bomb you into submission until we get it, even though our holy book says to love our neighbors", while the other group says by ITS actions "Our holy book suggests we snip off parts of your body and/or throw rocks at you until you are dead if you do stuff that holy book says is wrong. Ours is the religion of peace and love, after all."

[DirkGently]

84. The Christian Holy Book says all the same things. They just don't follow it as much anymore.

(rape victims who fail to scream loudly)
If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city. Deuteronomy 22:23-24

(non-virgins getting married)
If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her ... and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: And the damsel's father shall say ... these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. ... But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die. Deuteronomy 22:13-21

(following a different religion)

If there be found among you ... that ... hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them ... Then shalt thou ... tone them with stones, till they die. Deuteronomy 17:2-5

Edit: More here: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/stoning.html

[Obamanaut]

90. I think you'll find that the New Testament, the foundation for Christianity,

is said to have changed all that. You know, the love your neighbor, no stone casting unless you are sinless yourself, etc. That Christianity thing may have something to do with following the teachings of the Christ, who is the protagonist in the NT, about whom most of the stories are written, the fulfilling of the prophecy and all that.

I've read all those passages in the OT, which are quite similar to the writings in the Koran, which as you know, does not have stuff corresponding to the Christian NT - so the old laws in the OT passed away, while the similar laws in the Koran are still with us today.

Edited to add: Here's a site you might find fun to peruse to supplement the 'skeptics...' site you linked to. I've used them both from time to time
http://www.godisimaginary.com/

I have no financial or personal interest in either site, but find them both useful

[DirkGently]

91. That's great, if you can convince the Christian fundies. Either way, no one's "Holy Book" is better

Edit: And here's a thought. If the New Testament eliminates the Old Testament, why is the Old Testament still there? Why not throw it away, as it's full of as at least as much barbarism as the Koran? Why do we have "Chrisians" constantly pushing to make the Ten Commandments part of secular law, if Jesus got rid of all that?

And as for the new prophet, aren't there also passages like this:

Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39 NASB)
Parallels in the Gospel of Luke (12:49–53,14:25–33)

I respect the peaceful practice of whatever religion anyone wants. But no one's god is better, nor anyone's book more righteous, nor is the religiously related violence we see the result of someone practicing the "wrong" version of any of the three Abrahamic religions, which are essentially all copies and spinoffs of each other.

[pnwmom]

97. Yeah, and Christians stopped how many hundreds of years ago?

And Jewish people don't stone anymore either.

There's no reason that Muslim fundamentalists can't also adapt their practices as most other cultures have.

[DirkGently]

118. Correct. Because Islam isn't the problem. Regional chaos, culture, economics. Not the preference

of one ancient, violent religion over another.

Edit: and let's be clear: Christians still foster violent, intolerant, woman-hating, murdering extremists. Not using rocks is a plus, but hardly definitive.

[pnwmom]

120. With all their faults Christians these days don't have anything

comparable to Sharia law, with its gruesome physical punishments. (Not that there aren't individual self-identified Christians who might think going back to that would be a great idea.)

It's time for fundie Muslims to reject the barbarism of centuries ago, as the other major religions have.

[DirkGently]

121. That's great. Doesn't make Christianity a better religion. It simply is not.

[pnwmom]

122. In its current manifestation, I think it is -- not compared to Muslims in general

but to fundie Muslims who advocate Sharia, and Muslims in countries like Saudia Arabia.

[DirkGently]

136. It's not the religion. It's the culture. If Christianity replaced Islam in the Middle East, ,

nothing would improve.

[pnwmom]

137. Isn't Sharia a system of religious law? And isn't it followed

in the country of Saudi Arabia?

If Christianity replaced Islam in Saudi Arabia, I can't imagine the system of Sharia continuing.

[pnwmom]

96. Or to fly jets into buildings? n/t

[PassingFair]

125. Or how about THIS?

Dropping bombs is so much CLEANER than stoning!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1244440/U-S-military-weapons-dubbed-Jesus-guns-inscribed-secret-Bible-messages.html


Yeah Christian TEAM!!!

[valerief]

107. +666 trillion

[CanonRay]

99. So far. They aren't in power. Yet.

[BrklynLiberal]

86. One million percent correct!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:thumbsup:

[RagAss]

3. It's all of the military..not just the Air Force.

You'd almost have to brainwash someone to serve.

[izquierdista]

14. Recruiting "believers" is a good start

People who have the fault of "thinking for themselves" may not obey orders that put them in lethal danger.

[USArmyParatrooper]

75. There are no religious requirements for joining the military

[USArmyParatrooper]

74. Bullshit

I can't speak for the Air Force academy, but having served a combined 13 years in two different branches I have never had any issue with religious pressure, nor have I seen or even heard about others who have. I'm personally a deist and I've met countless aitheists who aren't the least bit shy about expressing their views.

I'm not going to say there are no legitimate issues anywhere in the military, but MMRF constantly paints a picture of a climate that I certainly don't recognize.

[kenfrequed]

95. I was in back in the 90's

And there was an undercurrent, though it was less pronounced at the unit I spent the most time in than in the Army at large. I think though things have been gradually changing with more and more evangelicals slipping in. They seem to make up an ever larger percentage of the chaplain corp these days.

Many commands have, over the last ten years, been increasingly pushy about getting individual soldiers to attend blatantly religious rallies, particularly in training units.

[47of74]

105. True

Wasn't it not too long ago that there was a bunch of soldiers who were confined to barracks because they didn't want to attend some religious rally?

[USArmyParatrooper]

108. I'm still in and I've had completely different experiences than you describe.

The most agregious examples of religious pressure I've ever witnessed in 13 years is the "let us pray" portion of ceremonies and a time I saw a SFC tell a PFC (who believes in evolution), "I didn't come from no monkey!"

I don't doubt that others may have seen or exerienced worse, but the insane hysteria MMRF pushes is absurd.

[kenfrequed]

109. Really?

I suppose you don't recall boot camp then eh? Every cycle I talked to had the same story, "sure you can go to church on sunday or you can stay back and clean the barracks" Pretty cool choice eh?

And don't give me any of that 'no time for a sunday off in combat' crap. If there were no time off then you wouldn't get time off to go sit in some damned pew and listen to fairy tales either.

[USArmyParatrooper]

112. Are you talking Marine Bootcamp or Army Basic?

In Marine boot camp they said, "you are highly, highly encouraged" to attend some type of religious service on Sunday. It was pretty much understood to mean, "Just get the fuck out of the barracks and give us our ME time." They didn't care what church it was, be it Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, or (I think) they even had a Muslim service. I do know we had one Muslim in our platoon.

You might view that as religious "pressure" but frankly I don't think our drill instructors gave a shit IF or what religion we were. They just wanted some free time with the whole platoon gone on Sunday.

In Army OSUT for infantry if you didn't decide to march to some type of service you could stay back and polish your boots, write letters, square away your wall locker, or whatever within the confines of the rules.

[kenfrequed]

115. So...

Defacto pressure to be religious is ok?

I'm sorry but if your gonna be worked harder for being an atheist than that is what is happening. Period.

[USArmyParatrooper]

116. Stawman. Words I didn't use might be easier to argue against, but they're still not my words.

"Defacto pressure to be religious is ok?"

I never once said that. I just disagree that the Marine Corps (In 1995) telling their recruits to go find some place to be on Sunday is "forcing" them to be religious. On Sunday for a couple of hours, be gone. Beyond that they never spoke of God or religion... ever. You also didn't address how in Army basic (this time in 2003) if you didn't go to church you had free time in the barracks. I'm sure that was an innocent oversight.

"I'm sorry but if your gonna be worked harder for being an atheist than that is what is happening. Period."

Saying, "Period" at the end of your sentence does not validate it. What you said is ridiculous. I've never seen anyone worked any different due to their religion... EVER. In fact, our supply Sergeant is an atheist and he's one of the biggest shammers out there. I nicknamed him 'the Ninja' because he always disappears and he's impossible to find.

[kenfrequed]

127. I think you need to rethink your arguments.

A strawman only works if I take your weakest argument prop it up as the totality of your argument, demolish it, and then claim victory.

I am arguing a plank of your argument here. You seem to indicate that the result is immaterial and unrelated to a possible intention. An intention that you cannot confirm exists in all cases. I am saying that atheists are being worked harder and treated worse while good religious folk (mostly christians-not all bases had mosques and temples) were given time to rest.

This is the distinction between defacto pressure and dejure pressure. Dejure works according to the rules, and defacto, of course indicates something that exists merely as a matter of fact apart from any rules.

And tossing out one atheist as a 'one of the biggest shammers' leads me to believe you really aren't all that damned respectful of the irreligious anyhow.

My putting period at the end of a sentence is no worse, in my mind, than your leading with merely stating "Bullshit" as you did in the intro to one of your posts on the topic upthread.

[kenfrequed]

128. I think you need to rethink your arguments.

A strawman only works if I take your weakest argument prop it up as the totality of your argument, demolish it, and then claim victory.

I am arguing a plank of your argument here. You seem to indicate that the result is immaterial and unrelated to a possible intention. An intention that you cannot confirm exists in all cases. I am saying that atheists are being worked harder and treated worse while good religious folk (mostly christians-not all bases had mosques and temples) were given time to rest.

This is the distinction between defacto pressure and dejure pressure. Dejure works according to the rules, and defacto, of course indicates something that exists merely as a matter of fact apart from any rules.

And tossing out one atheist as a 'one of the biggest shammers' leads me to believe you really aren't all that damned respectful of the irreligious anyhow.

My putting period at the end of a sentence is no worse, in my mind, than your leading with merely stating "Bullshit" as you did in the intro to one of your posts on the topic upthread.

[USArmyParatrooper]

131. Says the guy who's entire post is flawed.

Let's take this from the top.

"A strawman only works if I take your weakest argument prop it up as the totality of your argument, demolish it, and then claim victory."

WRONG. A strawman argument is one in which you argue against a similar (but different) position than the one that was made. In other words arguing against something the other guy didn't say; hence, "beating up on the straw man"

"You seem to indicate that the result is immaterial and unrelated to a possible intention."

Wrong. I am disagreeing with the result. In my opinion the Marine drill instructors applying pressure to for us to leave for a couple hours on Sunday is wrong, but it does NOT force you to "be religious"

"I am saying that atheists are being worked harder and treated worse while good religious folk (mostly christians-not all bases had mosques and temples) were given time to rest."

If you're solely talking about Sunday morning during my Marine bootcamp experience in 1995, sure that's fair. But if you're talking in general terms military wide I completely disagree. By the way, once again you completely "forgot" to address my point that when I went to army OSUT in 2003 they did NOT work the recruits who stayed back.

"And tossing out one atheist as a 'one of the biggest shammers' leads me to believe you really aren't all that damned respectful of the irreligious anyhow."

One could see it that way if they A) take what I said completely out of context and B) ignore the fact that I, myself, am not religious and stated as much in this very discussion.

[noamnety]

126. That was the situation in my basic training.

If you didn't attend church you had to clean other people's shit (scrub latrines).

[DiverDave]

129. Back in the '70's when I took basic

I WANTED to go to church, nobody yelling at me for a couple of hours..then after that :shrug: I didn't go because we could get off base.And this one guy had a car, soo...

My permanent station wasn't religious at all.
Course this was '74-'76

[noamnety]

135. It was the 80's for me.

I experienced a similar deal - church or extra duty in basic, and outside of there, once we could leave base we weren't pressured.

But the pressure of church vs. punishment shouldn't be happening in basic.

[atreides1]

110. You going to the Christian music concert at Ft. Bragg?

Just because you don't recognize it, doesn't mean it's not happening.

[USArmyParatrooper]

113. Nope. Didn't even know about it.

Must be all that pressure getting to me. When is it?

[riderinthestorm]

4. Good thing we have a church in the Pentagon now!

:sarcasm:

[The Backlash Cometh]

5. How many times have I said that the Air Force was a guild?

Actually, only once. But I was making a point.

[era veteran]

117. If we ever have a coup the Air Force will start it and the

Army will end it. Something has been fucked up in Colorado Springs for a while.

[The Backlash Cometh]

134. Hurrah for the Army.

A true representation of democracy. Much braver, too, since most of the people that head for the Air Force believe they're safe from direct combat.

[ThomWV]

6. This has been pretty well reported for years - and its a national disgrace.

and scary as all hell too when you give it even a moment's thought.

[northoftheborder]

8. This needs to be investigated and publicized. Disgraceful.

[underpants]

10. It has been and it is. They are bats^*t crazy out there

on OUR TAX MONEY

[riderinthestorm]

13. I believe it's scary as all hell too but there's a fair number of DUers

who are just fine with the church in the Pentagon. :crazy:

How about we build religious centers in the White House, or the Department of State, or....

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Just for the record

yes, there are places where Americans serving abroad can go pray for insert god here, particularly in the Middle East... well like IN the Embassy.

For the record US Military Bases have had religious temples and Chaplains for close to 200 years, for the USN, from the beginning.

The problem is not a temple, but the US AF, is crossing lines, critical lines, in the UCMJ.

Oh and YES I have attended high holiday services at Pearl Harbor Navy Base... any problem with that?

[riderinthestorm]

32. I'm talking about our military command centers here in the US

like the Pentagon, White House, Department of State etc.

Your point isn't analogous at all. Americans serving overseas where they may not even have a church/mosque/synagogue at all isn't the same as having a church in the Pentagon.

You really don't see any problem with putting a religious shrine in the Pentagon building? And this has been built since 9/11 so there can also be some rather obvious parallels with the rise in religiosity in the military and the construction of these types of facilities.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Yes, and

USN Pearl Habor IS in the US, so is USMC base Camp Pendleton, or the uS Pac Fleet base San Diego.

We have had temples, churches et al like forever.

THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE, but the FLAGRANT violations of the UCMJ by the US Air Force Academy at Colorado Springs, Colorado.

And for the record there is a VALID reason to have a mosque in the Pentagon, which will serve as a church and Jewish Temple too... but I am not going to bother trying to explain this to you.

[riderinthestorm]

39. I thought you were ignoring me?

The OP is about the frightening rise of religiosity in the military, particularly the US Air Force. The Academy is having Christian evangelical problems but if you were paying attention you'd know this is a very real problem in most of the Air Force regular forces too (for example not even mentioning the other branches). I believe there is a direct connection to the rise of religious craziness in the military, (and 9/11), that segues with the installation of a religious shrine in the Pentagon.

You don't get it clearly but I don't see you offering up your "valid reason" for why there should be a religious shrine in the military headquarters of an ostensibly secular nation. Why not put them in the White House then? Or the State Department if we're going to let the religious(ly insane) take up that much real estate in Washington DC (anyone know how much square footage prime real estate is going for in downtown DC), in our nations ostensibly secular government buildings?

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. What part of what the AF Academy is doing is violating the UCMJ

are you purposely missing?

That is the fucking problem. The Military has had a Chaplain service since the beginning, with no issues. Most militaries from advanced nations happen to have chaplains too, oh and prayer.

The way to deal with this is with a few firings, a few court martials... and a whole sale change in the Chaplain corp of the USAF. NOT by taking places of prayer away from service members.

I take it you have never served or put a foot inside any military base.

(In fact I cannot think of ONE military force that does not have prayer or chaplains, outside the USSR)

[riderinthestorm]

42. Chaplain service does not equal permanent shrine in the Pentagon. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. Is the Pentagon a Military Base?

Yes, short answer.

Do they have a Chaplain, or rather a few chaplains assigned to the Pentagon? Yes... in fact the Rabbi at USN Base Pearl Harbor was assigned to the Pentagon five days before 9.11...

What is your issue? This is not news.

[JuniperLea]

7. Newsflash! There's no asterisk after "Thou shalt not kill"

Someone's going to hell.

[FiveGoodMen]

29. Don't try telling that to my missionary uncle

"It says thou shalt not murder ... and that's different ... (because then WE get to decide which killing is murder and which isn't)"

[JuniperLea]

38. I have a missionary cousin...

In Israel. I'll have to remember to ask her about the original translation... she's big on that these days. Her family speaks Hebrew, and her daughter teaches the language.

Having spent far too much time in fundy churches, I get what you mean... it's all in the translation chosen.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. The translation is THOUGH SHALL NOT KILL

the Catholic Churhc Bible given to the Swiss guard is... though shall not kill.. fellow believers.

But it is though shall not kill.

Of course context is everything... it would have been understood by the Bronze Age people getting this from King Josiah, that this meant not killing members of the tribe. Outsiders were not necessarily included.

That said there are long sections on how to treat the foreigner and the slave.

[Art_from_Ark]

69. "Thou", not "though"

Thou-- archaic word for "you"

[DirkGently]

94. Which conveniently robs the phrase of any objective meaning whatever, of course.

[arbusto_baboso]

11. The USAF has been run by batshit crazies since Curtis LeMay.

They just don't bother to conceal their craziness anymore.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. I suspect the US Army was pleased like crazy

when the USAF was formed in 1947... you mean crazy US Air Corp General Curtis LeMay is no longer part of THE ARMY? WHEW!

[arbusto_baboso]

23. No doubt. Notice its the services that have less direct contact with any enemy that are always the

biggest hawks? It's the Admirals and Air Force Generals who tend to be over-the-top hostile. Army Generals (and to a lesser extent, their Marine Corps counterparts) tend to be much less enthusiastic about war. Probably because they're closer to the consequences.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. The AF is the worst

since the Navy still gets to see the consequences.

[arbusto_baboso]

25. To a degree that's true, yes.

There are still some posturing crazy hostile "macho" types in the Navy, though.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. Yeah usually in Logistics

way behind the safety of DC, and away from fleet

[arbusto_baboso]

28. Exactly! To quote a famous Bill Mauldin "Joe and Willie" cartoon...

"You can alluz' tell the man whut ain't seen combat. He's the one stampin' 'round lookin' fer a fight."

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. And I agree

The further you are from the line... the more likely you are to itch for a fight... one that you will not have to ahem fight yourself.

With the rise of drones and the next gen of fighters will probably be not manned, expect the AF to become even crazier.

[arbusto_baboso]

33. Now there's a cheery thought...

:scared:

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Of course, it is cheery

I am sure war will be far more ahem, attractive. Why I'm opposed to drones on principle.

[FiveGoodMen]

31. The Bravery of Being Out of Range

-- a Roger Waters song

[Bigmack]

71. My favorite Marine...

`I believe that if we had and would keep our dirty, bloody, dollar soaked fingers out of the business of these (Third World) nations so full of depressed, exploited people, they will arrive at a solution of their own. And if unfortunately their revolution must be of the violent type because the `haves' refuse to share with the `have-nots' by any peaceful method, at least what they get will be their own, and not the American style, which they don’t want and above all don’t want crammed down their throats by Americans.' –
Gen. David Shoup, United States Marine Commandant Medal of Honor recipient.
My Commandant during the first part of my time in.

[Kolesar]

73. The USAF Reserve is where coward bush hid out during the Vietnam War

He was part of that culture until he deserted.

Molly Ivins and Lou Dubose reported that the AF Reserve was the safety net for sons of congressmen and members of the Dallas Cowboys.

[kenfrequed]

111. Oh gods

That is so true!

Having been in the Army I always thought it was remarkable how much more often I would run into Navy people that were far more conservative than their counterparts in the Marines. And don't get me started on the Air Force...

[Oldtimeralso]

70. Is That "Bombs Away" LeMay? n/t

[awoke_in_2003]

15. The hold that religion...

has taken on this country in the last 30 years alone is astounding to me. At this rate, I am glad I only have about 30 or so years to live- because this country is going to get batshit crazy. I am waiting for witch trials to start soon, then of course- burning atheists like me at the stake. Anyone notice it is IMPOSSIBLE to go one day in this country without hearing about Jeebus?

[RKP5637]

19. There's a lot of truth in what you've said, we are in the same boat on thoughts about this... often

I've said I'm glad I'm at the end of my life than the beginning, as I think the US has a strong potential to become a really F'en crazy place. Too many people can't seem to think and ignorance abounds with pride. Over about the last 30 years this country has become pretty strange IMO.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. There is hope

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Great_Awakening

We go through these things every so often, and methinks it has either peaked or soon to peak.

[awoke_in_2003]

61. "soon to peak"...

one can hope.

[krabigirl]

37. I think it will get a lot better as the years go by..people are slowly waking up.

[awoke_in_2003]

62. far too slowly, imho. nt

[Initech]

59. A fundamentalist takeover of this country could and probably will happen in my lifetime.

I blame Raygun - he and the Xtian Taliban rose to prominence during his reign - and people like Falwell, Robertson, et al - will still not shut up to this day.

[awoke_in_2003]

63. Rayguns destroyed this country...

in more ways than one.

[Initech]

89. The more I read about the dominionists,, the more I absolutely despise them.

[Greyhound]

93. WWIII The U.S. vs. The World.

Available soon on Pay-Per-View.

[Scurrilous]

17. K & R

:thumbsup:

[Hotler]

18. Dominionist.

Plus Colorado Springs is a hot bed of evangelical Christians.

[hunter]

22. The Air Force is afflicted with gangrenous Evangelicalism.

Amputation is an appropriate treatment.

[Froward69]

44. This is a compleate DUHHHH!!!

it has been going on for years.. I have a friend whom was forced to retire from teaching at AFA. "Officially" it was because he had put in 30 years. realistically it was because he "came out" as a Democrat. Ostracized is a better term for it.


The countries biggest MegaChurch is straight across I-25 from the campus on "Baptist" ave I believe. Focus on (all of our) Families is in the same neighborhood.

on Edit/ all of Colorado Spgs is that crazed. Biggest Welfare Queen City in the nation with all the funds laundered through the Defense department.
AFA
Peterson AFB
Ft. Carson

Cheyenne Mt (now supposedly closed) yet still has armed guards at the gate.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. What those cadets need to do

with the help of a few people in the military religious freedom foundation and the ACLU is file a few charges. Until we have a GENERAL COURT MARTIAL or two, this will not change.

In fact, the AF needs a few court martials across the service, or shall we say, ahem resignations.

But it will change once they are forced to follow the UCMJ. It ain't the prayin' that is the problem. It is the forcing of a faith on military personnel. You are allowed to follow your religion in the military, not push it on somebody else.

[glinda]

48. K & R n/t

[TroglodyteScholar]

50. I feel for these "underground" whistleblowers...

...but honestly, who didn't already know this about the USAF?

[stray cat]

52. Like the objectivity and accuracy of DU underground

[Hannah Bell]

66. -100

[stray cat]

53. If progressives are too good to serve in the military of course they can not dominate

[Hannah Bell]

65. -100

[fascisthunter]

114. You are Verrrry Ignorant if you believe that Garbage

I almost wonder if you just crawled out from a nuclear bunker built in the 1950's.

Here's a clue: There always have been liberals/progressives serving this country and always will.

This thread seems to have struck a nerve with you.

[taught_me_patience]

54. Who would Jesus bomb

from 30,000 feet?

[SocialistLez]

55. Much of our country is run by Evangelicals

This is not surprising.

[donheld]

57. k & R

[Strelnikov_]

58. Thank God Air Force personnel do not have access to nukes n/t

[Initech]

60. Gives new meaning to the phrase "god warrior" doesn't it?

[anAustralianobserver]

67. What could go wrong?

[Jeffersons Ghost]

72. K&R

[Scuba]

76. This is dangerous. There's no crazy like God crazy.

[tblue37]

77. My daughter had an opportunity to go there, and she considered it because

the Air Force would have paid for med school, and she wouldn't end up over $200,000 in debt as she is now. But I am really, really, really glad she decided not to go.

[TBF]

79. K&R nt

[blindpig]

80. The Praetorian Guard

Even should the entire country turn against them the ruling class will have this ace in the hole. Deluded religious fanatics who would willingly kill masses of their countrymen, thinking it was for their god but in actuality for the capitalist class.

[Obamanaut]

81. You mean like stoning them, or snipping off their noses, etc.?

[blindpig]

82. Nothing so primitive...

more like nukes and napalm.

[DirkGently]

83. Good find. This has been a known issue at the AF Academy for years now.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/relintolafa.htm

The Associated Press reported that the Academy's No. 2 chaplain, Captain Melinda Morton, said that she was fired for speaking up about religious intolerance among cadets and staff. She co-wrote a report in 2004 which criticized "strident" evangelizing of cadets by Christian officers. She alleged that evangelical Christians wield too much influence at the Academy. Major General Charles Baldwin, the Air Force's chief chaplain said that she wasn't fired, only reassigned to Japan. 2

Today, the Air Force touts the institution as a model of reform. But after the school brought in as speakers for a mandatory assembly three Christian evangelists who proclaimed that the only solution to terrorism was to “kill Islam,” I decided to see what had changed. Not much, several Christian cadets told me. “Now,” Hrabak said, “we’re underground.” Then he winked

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2009/05/0082488

[BrklynLiberal]

85. There have been some rumblings of this for years. Does the name Boykin ring any bells?

Just what this country needs is to have "soldiers for god"....:puke:

http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/InfiltratingTheUSMilitaryGenBoykinsWarriors.html

Infiltrating the U.S. Military

Gen. Boykin’s “Kingdom Warriors” On the Road to Abu Ghraib and Beyond

<snip>
As one reads or recites the facts surrounding Abu Ghraib, one is tempted to ask how the American military, with its code of ethics as reflected in the high traditions of West Point and our Naval Academy—where men and women are imbued in the tradition of honor— could have turned into such a ruthless band of sadists? The answer is: They didn’t. Someone else did it.

There is evidence the U.S. military, like the Southern Baptist Convention before it, has been targeted as an institution to be taken over and replaced with dominionists who are decidedly less educated and less honorable. These are men and women who may be willing to do anything to further the cause of world domination.

There is also evidence dominionists have infiltrated the military with willing personnel and that the military has similarly infiltrated the churches.

The next chapter of this story begins with Lt. Gen. William G. “Jerry” Boykin, the Pentagon’s senior military intelligence official. He graduated from Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University with a bachelor’s degree in education in 1971. That same year, he was commissioned in the U.S. Army where he rose through the ranks to Commanding General of the U.S. Army Special Forces Command (Airborne) Fort Bragg, N.C. and then in June 2003 to the present to Deputy Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence at the Pentagon.<19>

There is no question that Lt. Gen. Boykin is a brave soldier and he is undoubtedly a personable man. But in searching through data available on the web, it appears that while the general has spent thirty three years in the military, he has had very little formal military education with the exception of a year at the Army War College in 1990-1991.<20>

Boykin became the focus of media reports when he spoke about his involvement in the war on terrorism at twenty-three Baptist and Pentecostal churches across the country, accompanied by two military aides. According to a 10-month internal investigation conducted by the defense department’s deputy inspector general for investigations and reported by the Washington Post, Boykin received reimbursement for his travel costs from one of the sponsoring church groups and failed to report that fact. He wore his uniform and gave the impression that he was representing the military. <21>

The investigation confirmed that Boykin said that the U.S. military is recruiting a spiritual army that will draw strength from a greater power to defeat its enemy.<22> In fact, he told the First Baptist Church of Broken Arrow, Okla. on June 30, 2002, “What I’m here to do today is to recruit you to be warriors of God’s kingdom.”<23>

Wait a minute! He was speaking to Christians—so he was not seeking to evangelize them to become Christians. What then was he recruiting for? If Boykin is a dominionist, then those words have a concrete meaning: He was recruiting soldiers to fight a war to set up God’s Kingdom on earth!<24>

After all, Ken Hemphill, the Southern Baptist’s national strategist for Empowering Kingdom Growth, (EKG) spoke to the Southern Baptist Convention Executive Committee recently defining the role of religion for them. According to him, church is about advancing the Kingdom of God. He said, “Southern Baptists must lead in awakening the church to be on mission with God for the redemption of the nations.” Hemphill, quoting a passage from the Bible said there is one biblical sign yet to be fulfilled: “This good news of the Kingdom will be proclaimed in the entire world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.”<25>

When we consider Boykin’s speaking and recruitment tour along with the fact he was addressing Baptists and Pentecostals who are the backbone of the religious right dominionist movement, alarm bells should go off. It may be that the Army’s Inspector General’s office is simply ignorant of the goals of the religious right, but there is far more evidence that link the hard right religious world with the U.S. Military.

Boykin not only went on a speaking tour to recruit “warriors,” but prior to the tour, he’d invited a select group of Southern Baptist pastors to meet him at the John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center and School at Fort Bragg, NC on April 22-23 of 2003. According to the promotional materials sent out to the group of Southern Baptist pastors, they would be given unprecedented access to the military base while being recruited for the denomination’s “Super FAITH Force Multiplier” program. Boykin’s invitation was extended in a letter authored by the Rev. Bobby H. Welch, pastor of the First Baptist Church in Daytona Beach, Fla.<26>

The planned meeting was scaled back after attorneys for Americans United for Separation of Church and State complained that Boykin was “using his official position to advance the religious mission of the Southern Baptist Convention’s FAITH Force Multipliers program.”<27> But keep the Rev. Bobby H. Welch’s name in mind as he is a prominent player in this saga.

Some months later, following the “scaled back” meeting at Fort Bragg, Lt. General Boykin’s name appeared in the second controversy I mentioned above. In October of 2003, Boykin and/or his Department of Defense bosses decided if he couldn’t bring the churches to the military bases, then he could take his program to the churches. But this stirred the largest media controversy. Some organizations began calling for Boykin’s resignation.<28>

Immediately the hard right dominionist church world vigorously jumped to Boykin’s defense. Most of Boykin’s supporters are believed to be members of the secret Council on National Policy.<29> In an excellent article, Deborah Caldwell, a senior editor of Belief Net, revealed that among Boykin’s “staunchest supporters were Focus on the Family’s James Dobson; religious broadcaster Pat Robertson; the Family Research Council; the Christian Coalition and the Rev. Bobby Welch.”<30>

<snip>

[uponit7771]

87. IE, the reason why DADT is REALLY hard to repeal right now

[USArmyParatrooper]

119. Air Force cadets can't cast a cloture vote in Congress.

[TwilightGardener]

88. I will say the rest of the Air Force officer population is not this nutty, as a group.

It gets way watered down--I think the Academy must be a sort of concentrated nut puree, with a number of the cadets pretending to be fundies just to fit in (as the article states). Very strange culture, some of the weirdest people I've ever met were former cadets.

[DirkGently]

92. I question the entire Academy system. Maybe saw "Lords of Discipline" once too many.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

98. it always has been under their control...this is not news to us old timers

[felix_numinous]

101. K & R

[sulphurdunn]

102. We don't need go far to find

apocalyptic crusaders armed with nukes.

[JDPriestly]

103. This is how extremists take control of a country.

They subvert and indoctrinate the military leaders to some fanatical belief system ... and then some years later, the military leaders are made into the tools of some silent, masked elite and there is a coup. This is how it is done.

This is an extremely important story. I hope that the Presidents is watching what is going on there.

[LiberalLovinLug]

104. watch and do what?

That's the insidious nature of fundamentalism. Especially the Christian version here, and the Islamic version in the Middle East. If Obama EVER came out in favor of restricting Christian indoctrination at military bases, he would be burned at the stake (on FAUX News if not literally)

[valerief]

106. Just like Congress. nt

[defendandprotect]

123. We've heard this before and evidently nothing done about it ....

Evangelical nuts -- in control of the military academies!!

[rexcat]

124. It has been this way since at least the early 70's...

no big surprise. When I was stationed at Patrick AFB in the early 70's in Florida we got a squadron commander right out of the academy. He was a fundie and a complete ass but that is/was pretty much the lifer attitude. The only reason I was in the USAF was because of low draft number and getting drafted at the time was a one way ticket to Southeast Asia. Not a place I really cared much about.

One thing the military looks for in candidates for the academies is a strong religious outlook. These people are easier to train and to more willing to comply with orders without much thought. One has to remember that the military is about doing what you are told to do without hesitation. They really don't want people who are critical thinkers. There is the chance for hesitation and that is not what the military wants. That is one of the reasons I did not like the military nor the career types.

This was also a good reason why my dad and I did not see eye to eye. He was in the USAF for 24 years (fighter pilot and electrical engineer with a Masters Degree). It was always God, Honor and Country with him. As smart as my dad was he was deficient in with his critical thinking ability when it came to the military and to the country.

[DailyGrind51]

130. The USAF makes the USMC look Progressive!

In "Seven Days in May", the right-wing general planning to overthrow an American President was an Air Force general. It was a U.S. Marines colonel who stopped him.

[TexasObserver]

132. Christian Evangelics have had a stranglehold on the USAF Academy 20 years.

Damn shame, too. Forty years ago, they were a decent school.

[Just One Woman]

133. San Antonio Base

In 2005 I attended my daughters graduation into the Air Force and she took us to the base church. Now this is a girl who would never go to church. She was raised as a reasonists and free to be anything. I was dumbfounded when I saw the evangelicalism being forced onto a captive audience. She told me they were not required to go, but knew it was expected. It was a show, and I mean a literal show. There was dancing, performances, and a party-like atmosphere. Now keep in mind this is the only "feel good" moments these guys had at what I refer to as boot camp, (AF calls it something else). They break them down to build them back up as evangelicals. I voiced my concerns with her. Her attitude was that nothing was wrong with it. She asked me how I could deny these guys the only time they had to smile? And this is how they do it. I feel fortunate that she had me to keep pulling her back to earth. Although she might have kept her feet on the ground anyway. She is a very strong woman. But what about those that are not?

[lovuian]

138. this is part of the brainwashing Crusaders

and they will be officers ...of Christ

[BreweryYardRat]

139. Evangelicals of any religion + bombs = a really bad combination.

I do not want some lunatic who thinks he hears God's voice in his head to have access to high explosives...or fuel-air explosives...or nukes.

[Vehl]

140. Evangelicals, Taliban: Both sides of the same coin. nt