It should be clear to everyone now what they should battle for and who the enemy is: EXXON

[Harper_is_Bush]

Please put these two things together:

yesterdays news that http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/05/18/1301/">Earth’s Natural Defenses against Climate Change ‘Beginning to Fail’
with yesterdaysand

and...

yesterdays news that http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/18/exxon-global-warming-2/">ExxonMobil Lied, Continues to Lavishly Fund Prominent Global Warming Deniers

consider those two pieces of news, and there should be NO QUESTION in your mind who our enemy is.
Compared to EXXON, Osama Bin Laden is a choir boy.

I encourage all who care about this earth and the future of ALL SPECIES (not just seals or whales, but ALL SPECIES) to take up the fight for truth, which is the fight against EXXON.

Go to exxonsecrets.org to see the full extent of the evil campaign EXXON has waged against truth, with our planet the victim.

GO TO http://www.exxposeexxon.com/ TO JOIN THE FIGHT.

IS THERE ANY GREATER CAUSE? IS THERE ANY MORE IMPORTANT ISSUE THAN THIS TODAY?

THIS IS A WAR FOR THE PLANET, PLEASE DO EVERYTHING YOU CAN DO TO FIGHT IT.

[gravity]

1. Blaming ExxonMobil is like a crackhead blaming his dealer

We are the ones addicted to oil. ExxonMobil just gives us what we want

[Harper_is_Bush]

2. You're not getting it.....

The complaint, the reason I call for war on EXXON, is not because they supply oil.

Did you even look at the second link?

If they just performed business - supplying oil - I would have no problem with them.

Instead they are giving millions of dollars to create the misinformation - to fund the deniers and liars that have resulted in the public confusion and false debate so evident today.

I do blame them for delaying the action that needs to occur. They have been central in that role.

I understand that people need to reduce their consumption, but without doubt we would be a lot further down that path if it wasn't for the forest of disinformation that EXXON has planted around the global warming issue.

[gravity]

4. The effects from the funding are minimal if any any

I wouldn't compare them to Bin Laden for what they did. Most of the organizations that were provided funding have more agendas than just denying global warming anyways.

The problem is that we are addicted to oil. The majority of the people around the world acknowledge global warming now, yet we still keep on driving.

[Harper_is_Bush]

10. How can you call the effects of over $16 million to 40+ global warming denial groups "minimal"??

I am CONSTANTLY being sent links to misinformation that originates from these groups.

I'm sorry, but you are absolutely missing the point of this topic. Perhaps you're not familiar with the PR efforts of these denial groups?

As for us being "addicted to oil", as Bush likes to say, that is a simplistic and partial view of the situation. To call it an addiction implies that it's out of our control, but it's not. I drive a Smart car. The reason I do that is because of this issue. I attempt to drive as little as possible. If I was "adddicted" to oil I would not be able to cut back on my consumption. Anyone who has any experience with addiction understands it's nature, and I believe Bush pushes that line purely to give the public the perception that it's out of his hands...our of our hands.

But if we did accept the phrase "addicted to oil", then EXXON - in the substace abuse analogy of meth - would be the one spending millions to fund "scientists" who spend 100% of their time on PR tours and writing op-eds telling people that your addiction is not such a bad thing (if in fact, it's real)....and that a meth addiction does not cause your teeth to rot. Those meth addicts probably just need to brush more!

[gravity]

12. To state it better, oil is the lifeblood of our society

We would cease to exists without it.

Even if you personally don't use oil or drive, you are still completely dependent upon people who do, since everyone in our society is connected together. The food you eat is grown with fertilizers from oil, tractors to till the land, and trucks to ship it to the store, with you depending on transportation that uses fossil fuels to pick it up from the store. It's the same way with every other good and service you consume.

The irony is that realistically the only way to decrease the use of oil in this country is to raise the price of gas. When this happens everyone gets pissed off and demands that the price of gas to go down so we can use more. Increasing the price of gas by 50%, only lowers demand by a few percent if any, so don't pretend that we aren't addicted.

It's the American way of life that's addicted to oil. Even if we cut back on our usage, our economy is going to suffer as a result since we would have less energy to use. That means that the price of goods will go up so we can't consume as much, and that there could be less or lower paying jobs. Some will say that this would be a good thing, but try convincing the American public and the rest of the world that.

It's the reality of the situation, and unless we can discover an alternative to oil, then we have to make a tough decision: the American way of life or global warming.

[Harper_is_Bush]

14. Nonsense. Reductions can occur. All or nothing is a false choice. And you didn't respond....

to my points in post #10. Do you concede that you were wrong to characterize the effects of EXXON's campaign as "minimal"?

[gravity]

15. The effects were still minimal if any

For sake of argument I'll say that it increased demand for gas by 5%, which would make that $40 million the most successful advertising in history. A mere $40 million dollar investment allowing Exxon to increase revenues by $20 Billion dollars.

Now what about the other 95% of the demand?

And about reductions, even with these high gas prices, we aren't changing our driving habits much at all as a whole. The demand for gas is just down 1% from last year with these outrageous prices.

[Harper_is_Bush]

17. Increased demand for gas??? You and I are not on the same page...

The money spent has nothing to do with the demand for gas.

The issue here is the misinformation the EXXON money generated, and it's effect on delaying action on global warming. Demand for gas is unrelated.

[gravity]

19. I'll cede that to you

but who knows the effect that it has actually delayed action on global warming.

I still wouldn't compare them to Bin Laden though. ExxonMobil could be part to blame, but there are many other bogeymen out there. Rush Limbaugh, Rupert Murdoch, and Bill O'lielly probably had just as much of an impact on the debate.

[Harper_is_Bush]

21. The effect of that is no less than the effect of Bush/Rummy/VP/Rice BS

in creating the perception that Iraq was involved in 9/11.

Don't underestimate the effect of misinformation. Although you and I may be wise to it, the important thing is that the bulk of the population is taken by it.

[tabasco]

6. So robber barons are off the hook for subverting our government?

I suppose the people are to blame for Enron too, since Enron was giving them what they needed.

[gravity]

7. Not for subverting the gov't

I am not going to say that ExxonMobil are angels or anything, but there are better ways of dealing with the problems than just blaming Big Oil.

[SammyWinstonJack]

8. You're kidding, right?

[Junkdrawer]

16. I agree...we should investigate them - then put them behind bars...

Until we get to the truth and punish the guilty, we will continue to fight a losing battle.

[Junkdrawer]

18. ...and let's start the investigation with Cheney's secret Energy Task Force....

Remember the map where they divvied up Iraq...BEFORE 9/11...Al Gore does...

[Harper_is_Bush]

26. Have you got Al's new book yet? n/t

[Junkdrawer]

32. Tuesday. n/t

[RestoreGore]

13. What Bull

They continue to support lies and misinformation because they want to give people NO OTHER CHOICE but oil when there are viable solutions out here that people would most defintely want if they had access to them, education, and information, which they are not getting from the interests in the media supported by these groups. Just like the tobacco companies LIED to keep their profits up while people became addicted to tobacco and died of cancer by also funding a misinformation campaign about the dangers of smoking. These pigs at the trough put their own best interests before the sustainability of this planet and we need to fight that tooth and nail, because they are most definitely complicit in picking the gold bars over this planet to the detriment of all species and using their profits to poison the minds of people with misinformation that threatens life. To me it is morally reprehensible. Recommended.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

22. Bwhahahahahaha!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

MKJ

[Harper_is_Bush]

3. Save the planet kick. n/t

[blm]

5. Just read the article in Vanity Fair about their global warming 'opinion makers'

who show up for them on TV.


And Big Water will soon replace Big Oil.

[Peace Patriot]

9. I think the most important enemy is Diebold/ES&S, who are preventing reform.

During the 2002 to 2004 period, they took over our election system, and are "counting" all the votes with "TRADE SECRET," PROPRIETARY programming code, owned and controlled by rightwing Bushite corporations.

And, guess what? The result is an endless corporate oil war in the Middle East, and an Oil Cartel puppet president whom we just can't seem to get rid of, no matter how many high crimes and misdemeanors he and his junta commit.

Exxon Mobile is just one of many global corporate predators who have conspired to take over our government and hijack the U.S. military to their own purposes. But their goal is more than the Oil War. Their goal is to PREVENT the rebellion of the American people, who have the potential sovereign power to pull corporate charters, dismantle bad actor corporations and seize their assets for the common good. That's what it's all about. They have rigged the voting system so that we cannot regulate or dismantle them.

DU posters often rail against an entity they call "the mainstream media" ("MSM"), where the spectrum of political opinion and news slant has been restricted to the right and far right. But not only do they thereby give that ground--the mainstream--to war profiteering corporate news monopolies, in the very name they assign to it--the "MSM"--they also fail to perceive that the issue is not so much WHAT the war profiteering corporate news monopolies fill out PUBLIC airwaves with, but rather their POWER to do so. It's not so much WHAT Sean Hannity or Ann Coulter SAY--that demoralizes and disempowers the true majority in this country--it is the MONOPOLY on news/opinion that the five rightwing billionaire CEOs who control it all, have achieved. They are the ones giving a platform to fascist viewpoints, to the exclusion of almost any other.

And how do you change that? Forget influencing it. They DON'T CARE. They are interlocked with other corporations in such a way that public opinion doesn't phase them.

How you change that is by electing true representatives of the people who will bust up their monopolies and bring back the "Fair Doctrine." True representatives of the people who understand that these are our PUBLIC airwaves, and we have a sovereign right, in licensing their use, to require that they be operated in the public interest and for the common good.

And it is the same with EVERY BUSINESS CORPORATION. We have a right, as a sovereign people, to REQUIRE that they operate in the public interest, or cease to exist.

And what is our chief power as a sovereign people? How do we exercise our sovereign power? Through VOTING. That is WHY they took over, and privatized and corporatized our voting system, and are running it on "TRADE SECRET" programming code--code so secret that not even our secretaries of state are permitted to review it. This is tyranny, plain and simple. Josef Stalin said it best: "It's not who votes that counts--it's who counts the votes."

You wonder how Exxon-Mobile can run rampant through our government, and how fascists and criminals can still be LOOTING and DISMANTLING our government, in pursuit of the long time Corporate Ruler goal of destroying all nation-state power to regulate them?

This is how they did it. The date was October 2002, nearly simultaneous with the Iraq War Resolution. The means was the "Help America Vote Act." That WAS the coup.

Our election system has other problems. It's been eroded over a long period of time, with this filthy campaign contribution system. And the Bushites have ALSO been purging millions of black and other poor voters from the voting rolls. But the "trade secret" programming is the coup de grace--the final solution--to prevent any and all efforts at reform and regulation.

And they can even allow a little Democratic Congressional investigation, and a lot of "sound and fury" about the war, as long as nothing changes. SEVENTY-FIVE PERCENT of the American people oppose this war and want it ended, yet--despite our ability to outvote the machines, in some cases, demonstrated in '06--the war is being ESCALATED, with hundreds of billions more dollars filling the pockets of war profiteers.

You couldn't have a clearer demonstration of Diebold/ES&S control of election results, and of the estimated 5% to 10% "thumb on the scales" that is favoring Bushites, warmongers and corporatists. We get a Democratic Congress, but one that is weighted toward war by 40 "Blue Dog" Democrats who want to cut everything but the military budget. A 75% (!) majority of the people is only able to achieve a 50/50 Congress, which permits the war to continue...to be ESCALATED!

We can yell and scream all we want--against Exxon-Mobile or any of the other bad actors who are destroying our democracy, and our planet. But until we restore vote counting that everyone can see and understand, we are powerless against them. They have no reason to care what we think.

They know where power is located. They took ours away, quite deliberately, in anticipation of this planetary crisis, so that they and their super-rich pals would feel no consequences from it. They are EXPLOITING "peak oil" and environmental crises--such as wilder hurricanes--to pad their own already bulging pockets, with oil wars, with Halliburton no-bid contracts in Iraq and New Orleans, with a thorough looting of our government coffers, and all the rest. They have neutered us, as a people, as a potential power that could stop them. And their chief and final method is secret vote counting.

And you will notice that there has not been one peep out of the Democratic Party leadership about the "trade secret" programming in our voting machines.

The best venue for restoring transparent vote counting is the local/state jurisdictions, where ordinary people still have some potential influence. Congress ain't going to fix it. Believe me. They are hopelessly compromised by Diebold/ES&S, and are proposing a mere "paper trail" and a minimal audit (--a bandaid on this gravely corrupt voting system). One strategy is to demand a handcount of the votes, and posting of the results, BEFORE any electronics are used--say starting with the Absentee Ballot votes (an obvious, and very big, constituency for tranparent vote counting). It may be a difficult, long term battle, requiring persistence and patience--but it is a battle that we MUST undertake, if we want our country back.

I am not at all against spreading information--such as info about Exxon-Mobile--and public protest on the war and other issues. These are also very important efforts. But until we have restored transparent vote counting, there is not a lot we, as a people, can do about it.

[Harper_is_Bush]

11. Well...I'd just like some honesty on global warming....and in that regard EXXON is the biggest enemy

You can talk about election fraud and trace our problems to that...we could also blame our delayed reaction to the climate crisis on Barbara Bush for having children.

EXXON is clearly and openly funding organizations that are relentlessly pumping false ideas about global warming that have invaded the public psyche...such as "the Sun's to blame" or "it's cyclical". That garbage has gained traction.

Global Warming...an issue that should be as morally clear as defeating the Nazis....has become a political issue around which people feel entitled to their own opinions, even if they contradict the science.

This breach of public trust is unparalelled in my view, due to it's audacious nature and the planetary risk it puts us under.

[Peace Patriot]

29. I agree with you Harper_is_Bush, but what do we do about it? The issue for

Exxon-Mobile is power, not substance. They have the power to push their disinformation and turn it into presidents and congress critters and policy, and so they do. What is our power to defeat them? Our main power is voting. That is actual power, not just public education and advocacy in a P.R. game in which they have zillions of dollars and we have none, or very little, and in which they own our public airwaves, along with our politicians.

You equate election fraud with Barbara Bush having children. That is a false comparison. If there were no George Bush, Exxon-Mobile and their cabal would invent one. Don't dismiss election fraud, or our potential power as a sovereign people, so glibly. Control of our elections is HOW they are imposing their agenda on us, HOW they get a friendly ear rather than a sock in the nose at EPA, and is HOW they have hijacked the US military for a corporate resource war, as well as installing their puppets in the White House. Electronic fraud is not their only means, but it is the coup de grace, and it is forever until we force it to be changed. Virtually undetectable control of vote counting. It's classic tyranny.

If you think that you are going to defeat Exxon-Mobile on moral grounds, you are wrong. That's like saying you are going to defeat George Bush or Dick Cheney on moral grounds. With electronic voting using secret code, corporations and their lackeys in government have become impervious to public opinion. There is no one to control them. There is no one to investigate them. There is no one to pull their corporate charter and dismantle them--our sovereign right as a people. And they know this.

I agree that this "breach of public trust is unparalelled...due to it's audacious nature and the planetary risk it puts us under." But do you think they and their super-rich cabal care a whit? Not at all. They are not morally persuadable. Ordinary people are persuadable. And we can and should do everything we can to persuade them. But I don't think that persuasion is the whole game, by any means. I remember reading a stat some time ago that about 80% of the American people favor strong environmental regulation--and whatever the percentage is now, it's still very high. Yet we have seen the EPA and all environmental regulation steadily eroded and undermined for more than two decades now. It's not so much, Do people want the environment protected? It's, What power do we have to achieve it, as government policy? Our MAIN POWER as a people is voting. That has been almost taken away. All we can do is try to outvote the machines' 5% to 10% handicap against us, added to all our other handicaps--the vast corrupt money/lobbying scene, and war profiteering (and oil profiteering) corporate news monopolies. The worst of it is the new electronic voting system, wherein NO ONE knows or can observe the counting of our votes.

I feel this way about a number of EXTREMELY SERIOUS issues--the Iraq War, where scores of people are getting slaughtered every day, and the Bush Junta assault on our Constitution and its assertion of tyrannical powers with virtually no opposition from Congress, Democratic or Republican. The Bush Junta = Exxon-Mobile & cabal. They are one and the same. So, when Bush asserts the right to make up his own laws, just figure Exxon-Mobile is making up its now laws. And when people are dying in Iraq, just figure they are dying for Exxon-Mobile. Because that is the truth. These issues are intimately related. We have an Oil Cartel puppet in the White House.

But HOW DO WE STOP THEM? You keep saying how serious global warming is, and their lies about global warming. True enough. But what do we do about it?

1. Boycott them. Okay. That has possibilities. Difficult but doable. But what of Chevron? What of Shell? And all the others? We could buy only Citgo gas, and help the Venezuelans out (at least their government is using the revenues for the public good). Or we could give up use of gas--very hard for many people. More of a long term project. Would take a lot--and I mean a lot--of organization, and...gulp...government involvement. (Not so outlandish--some state/local governments have been pro-active on global warming.)

2. Focus an intense campaign on discrediting Exxon-Mobile--specifically for their disinformation on global warming. Maybe even more difficult, cuz of their zillions not just for advertising, but for buying journalists and whole news organizations. Maybe start with certain highly focused groups--as the anti-sweatshop movement started with students on college campuses (and products sold in campus stores and in college shopping areas). So you get people educated, in spite of Exxon-Mobile's P.R. zillions. Then what? They control our election results. They've bought most of our politicians. Their lawyers write our laws. We have a situation right now of 75% of the people opposed to their oil war, and yet they are ESCALATING the war. You could conceivably win the P.R. battle, but how do you actually effect change? It's naive to think that Exxon-Mobile cares what the truth is, or what the American people think. They are into MANIPULATING news and opinion and disempowering and disenfranchising people, not listening to people. Even if 100% of the people turn against them, and understand that they are liars, why would they care? They only understand POWER.

3. Ignore them--they are hopeless--and concentrate on alternative energy development, and non-polluting transportation, to make them irrelevant and drive them out of the oil business. Another long term project.

4. Throw Diebold and ES&S into 'Boston Harbor' NOW, re-establish transparent vote counting, and start electing REAL representatives of the people, who will, a) start cleaning up the filthy lobbying scene, and all the ways that the Global Corporate Predators fix our elections, b) bust their power, bust their monopolies, strongly regulate them (and possibly even seize their land, their money, their oil facilities--bust them completely), c) put us on a 5-year plan to get off oil and coal (if we can put men on the moon in ten years, we can get off oil and coal in five), and d) join with other nations to solve the problem.

Of these four ideas, I think no. 4 can have the most immediate results, and is also the most doable. If all the votes were counted, we would already be seeing dramatic reform. A Zogby poll put the number of people who want transparent vote counting at 92%. That's an even bigger mandate than most polls on the environment (which run in the 60% to 80% range for protection), and bigger than the Iraq War (75% opposed). You don't have to convince anybody of anything. You just have to achieve transparent vote counting, and the voters will do the rest--they will start electing good, honest people, who will act in the public interest. It's both a short-term and a long-term project.

So that's all I'm saying. POWER is the issue--not morality, not truth, not what is right. What is our power?

[Harper_is_Bush]

30. Our power is through intimidation, and action.

How you choose to do that is up to you.

Whether it's participating in any/all activities promoted at http://exposeexxon.com/ or something else....it all helps.

Talk to your friends and family, let them know what EXXON does and tell them they can help by requesting all EXXON be removed from any investment funds they own.
Tell your local EXXON/ESSO station you won't buy their gas & products because they give millions to global warming deniers.
Write letters to the editor.

The pressure is increasing on EXXON....even from the highest levels of gov't. Let's keep it on them.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

31. Thanks for links. If you want to get a group of folks grumbling, mention the "oil companies".

Their price gouging and environmental destruction policies are impossible for anyone to spin. MKJ

[RB TexLa]

20. I know they get targeted, but since they buy oil from a company that extracts oil from my land

and I have been a shareholder almost my entire life, it's going to be hard for me to personally fight them.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

23. That sounds like a dilemma. Your portfolio vs. the liberal agenda.

:shrug: MKJ

[Harper_is_Bush]

24. YOU HOLD EXXON SHARES?????

WHY?

Obviously what you do is your business, but I implore you to remove your money from EXXON.

I recently started investing my savings through an advisor, and found out in the mail a VERY SMALL portion of one fund included EXXON.
I told my advisor about my concerns, and he advised I phone the fund manager. I phoned the fund manager 1-800 number, and had a long conversation with the operator about it. He actually empathised with me. He advised me to send a fax to the fund managers, which I did.

I also removed my money from that fund.

It was a profitable fund, but there are others.

I stand up for what I believe, and it feels damn good.

[Harper_is_Bush]

25. I ALSO FAXED THE FUND MANAGERS A LINK TO THIS LETTER:

The one from the D and R Senators asking Exxon to stop BS'ing us all. Read it here:

http://snowe.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressRoom.PressReleases&ContentRecord_id=9ACBA744-802A-23AD-47BE-2683985C724E

[IChing]

27. REMEMBER THE EXXON VALDEZ

it is still not cleaned up.


The ship they run is still captained by the ones
drunk on power and money.

The ship of their greed is hitting a reef of awareness
and consciousness for the masses

They may not be more than the characters out of Pirates of the Caribbean
looking at them and their ship that they want us to follow.

who they rob, pillage and plunder

but now

they cursed by the losing their soul
to Davie Jones and his ship of death
for this planet.

Good God Standard Oil(Exxon helped the Nazis)

Standard Oil (Exxon) and General Motors.



Hitler's Carmaker: The Inside Story of How General Motors Helped Mobilize the Third Reich (Part 1)
http://hnn.us/articles/37935.html


Hitler's Carmaker: As the Nazis Amassed Power, What Did GM Know and When? (Part 2)
http://hnn.us/articles/38255.html

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/IChing/156

[Harper_is_Bush]

28. Sat. night defend the planet kick. n/t