A quick note to anyone who goes to bars, restaurants, etc.

[WilliamPitt]

Just got home from my night job, and wanted to share a thought...and a request.

Short back-story: I've been working for Truthout for almost ten years now, it's a non-profit organization, and we got creamed when the economy tanked. We rely 100% on donations to operate, and when the economic shit hit the trickle-down fan two Decembers ago, the donations pretty much evaporated completely. I volunteered to take a savage pay cut to help keep the place afloat, and in order to make ends meet, got a night job as a bouncer at a downtown bar. For the record, matters have improved, my salary has returned to almost what it was, but I've held on to the night job because the extra scratch is tremendously helpful, and because I actually enjoy the work (mostly).

Tonight was not enjoyable. We were packed-to-the-rooftop busy all night, thanks to a Red Sox double-header and a big convention across the street. Everyone I saw was either half in the bag or fully gone, I mean like staggering too-much-gravity-out-here blasted, and it falls to me to keep those people out. If someone has 15 beers at some other place, manages to get into my shop, has one beer, and then kills someone with their car, we are liable for that disaster because they got in...so I spent my night convincing shitfaced droolers that life was better elsewhere. It never got physical, but I got cussed out a few times, and one guy flicked a butt at my head when I bricked him at the door...and then ran away, of course.

None of this deals with my point, which is this: in the hierarchy of my bar, I am the lowest man on the totem pole. I am, in fact, the part of the pole that's underground; I have the simplest job in the joint - card people, roust drunks, bar drunks from entering, sweep butts off the sidewalk, haul trash and bottles out after closing, fill the bins with ice, etc. - but what I do is vital. If the bottom of the pole isn't stable, the pole falls over...so if I'm not on point and let drunk idiots in, there are fights and pools of vomit and a general mess.

But it's easy, compared to what the floor servers and bartenders have to do. We do drinks and food, so the servers and bartenders have to sling pints and plates all night. The kitchen is the size of two phone booths, so the cook is going at top speed in a closet all night, and thanks to the stoves, it tends to be 140 degrees in there. I take my door job very seriously for one reason: to make their lives easier, to keep them from having to deal with shitheads who shouldn't be there, but to let enough people in that they make their money. It's a tightrope act most of the time; tonight, for example, the double-header meant game 2 didn't start until 10pm and didn't let out until 1am, and thanks to the two games, the whole city had been drinking since noon.

We did OK, for the most part. The place was packed all night, there weren't any fights or idiocy, and the place made money. BUT...and this is a big BUT...but for whatever reason, this was one of those nights when people tipped a quarter every three beers, complained about everything when nothing was wrong, and gave the servers and bartenders no end of grief. The ones doing this weren't rag-ass students or starving artists, mind you; they were the suits with the gold cards in their wallets, and they were assholes because they could be.

There is a certain breed of cat who goes out to an establishment and enjoys giving the people working there a hard time, who short them on the tab and the tip, and who take apparently endless pleasure out of making someone miserable...again, because they can. Two of my servers ran their asses ragged tonight and barely had cab fare to show for it at the end of the night, and we were busy, so they should have done well, or at least better than they did. It sucks.

I have the easiest job in the place, and I consider it my duty to make the servers and bartenders lives easier...and it makes me want to maim and slaughter when they get screwed. People who work in the service industry - *especially* when there is booze involved - run a marathon every shift. They work so hard for $2.65 an hour plus tip, and it blows my mind how often they are disrespected, taken for granted, and fucked over.

So, my point: when you go to a bar or a restaurant, treat your servers with respect. Tip them well. Don't take them for granted. If the rest of the industry is anything like my shop, the people working there are hanging on by their fingernails; the most stressful day at my place is the day before rent is due, because everyone needs to make their nut, and if they don't, if they get hosed on tips, it's an ugly scene.

Sorry for the long rant. It was a bust, but shitty, night. Treat your servers well. They work so goddam hard.

[Skittles]

1. K&R

I *ALWAYS* treat the waitstaff right! :D

[gateley]

226. I sometimes treat them TOO nice - once a waitperson came back

to me and said, really, you tipped me WAY to much and I insist on giving some back to you! :rofl:

[truedelphi]

236. Good to hear it.

I always remember the low wage jobs I have held at restaurants when I eat out. And tip well myself.

Once when my son was quite little, a group of my friends and my son ate at a rather pricey Fisherman's Wharf restaurant. There we had excellent service, food and a great time.our tip was commensurate with all that.

My son, aged six, seemed rather smug as we left the place. On the long walk to the car, I asked him what was going on and he informed me he had a surprise for all of us. For later...

When we finally arrived at the car, he reached in his pocket and handed me the cash we'd left at the table. "You guys forgot and left all your money back there. I know you need it!"

He meant well, but he wasn't quite able to grasp the concept that some people don't get paid on a paycheck but by what others leave them.

[gateley]

244. That's so cute! I bet he was so happy he'd 'saved' your money!

Even adults (read: Republicans) don't grasp the concept. As with everything, unless we've walked a mile in those shoes, we just don't have a REAL understanding. :hi:

[roguevalley]

293. that's the one job I never had to do. my mother did, my sweet

angel mom. I tip waiters/waitresses out the wazoo because of her. Always have. What a great service and what a thankless job.

[gateley]

311. Awww, bless her heart. I never had to do that either, and to be honest, I'm not

sure I could have! A lot harder than it looks, and as you say, a thankless job.

[xchrom]

2. Spot on. Nt

[thunder rising]

3. Thank Bob Dole for that.

Bob Dole and his business friends had the task of eliminating the 3 martini lunch as a business expense; you know it's still there, just filed differently.

They say around and came to the conclusion that it wasn't the 3 martini lunch write-off it was those servers that weren't reporting their cash tips.

No shit. I've despised the Republicans since. I've had a step mother, girl friends and wives that served drinks and food. It's hard work. In those days ass-grabbing was just having fun.

[era veteran]

243. Rayguns started collecting the taxes on servers

Lots better before that, for the business and the servers. 33 years of hospitality and I have seen close to it all. 20% or stay the fuck at home!!!

[snappyturtle]

290. I hate to tell you but 'ass grabbing' still goes on. Such an indignity but

as my daughter figures it helps pay the bills.

[WillParkinson]

4. This is so not true...

"“With the tips that they get to take home, they are some people earning over $100,000 a year,” Emmer said."

See. Mr. Emmer said it so it's obviously true.

[WilliamPitt]

5. And Mr. Emmer is...?

I mean, besides an idiot.

[WillParkinson]

7. Apologies...I negelcted the link...

http://minnesotaindependent.com/61301/emmer-to-meet-with-servers-after-saying-he%E2%80%99d-cut-minimum-wage

He's a Congressman who said he would cut minimum wage for servers because they were taking home more money than the business they worked at.

(On edit, though I'm sure it didn't need to be said...He's Republican.)

[unapatriciated]

239. delete posted in wrong place

[dflprincess]

272. Emmer is a Republican member of the Minnesota House, not a Congressman

and he is the Republican's candidate for governor.

God willing, the Independence party candidate, Tom Horner (who in realitiy is also a Republican, just a slightly saner one) will draw more votes from Emmer than from the DFL candidate, Mark Dayton. In the past 3 elections the Independence party has been responsiblity for Ventura winning (with 35% of the vote) and both of Pawlently's terms (never more than 45% of the vote).

[Lucian]

He's an idiot teabagger running for Tim Pawlenty's spot as MN governor.

Mark Dayton is the Democratic candidate running against him.

[eridani]

9. Really high end restaurants. Of which there aren't very many

Some of them are so high end that the wait staff has to pay the restaurant for the opportunity to collect big tips there. Always there are the asshats who think that diner waitstaff must be rolling in it too.

[WillParkinson]

10. I know...

I work as a server in a hotel. The most I ever made in 1 year was just shy of 30k and that was a spectacular year.

[unapatriciated]

237. Mr. Emmer is a little delusional.

I was a server from 1969 to 1989 and I never even came close to 40k. I worked in similar establishments as the op describes. Wages were around 10k for a 35-40 hour week (went a little higher when Ca raised min wage) and You averaged 10 to 15k in tips (before taxes). There may have been a few making that at very elite expensive restaurants.


btw I knew you were being sarcastic, just wanted to let anyone who might actually believe this know the truth.

[meegbear]

6. You - a bouncer??

BWAH-HAHAHAHAHA! Where?

[FirstLight]

8. damn right!

they often make LESS than min wage because the tips are averaged in by the boss, or they have to pool tips, which really sucks.

the only time i don;t really tip well is when it is either bad food/service or we are scrounging for the meal in the first place...

I've never worked in food/service in high school or college, mainly because i didn't think i could handle the smells, grease on my clothes, other peoples food, etc...and NOW i know I couldn't do it because it is HARD work and my body just is not up for the task.

Kudos to you for being respectful of your fellow service workers.

and ya, they gold card assholes are the same folks who whine "$250K a year is NOT a lot to live on..." bastards.

[hlthe2b]

11. Yes... as one who worked in grad school as a waitress in one of

those bar/restaurants so popular with college football fans, I know exactly what you are talking about. Fortunately, there was some sense of guilt on the part of the big roller alumni (but usually only after they had pitched a heavy beer-filled glass mug 30 feet across the room at your head, as you walked by ladened down with a tray of food for six, barely able to duck without dropping the load). Such actions usually resulted in voluntary (or "forced voluntary") over-tipping. But, with the economy, I can not imagine. So many of these asses, who have plenty of dough, will use that as an excuse.

I can understand. First hand. Glad you are there to try to help.

[dave29]

12. When I was 18

my grandparents took me on a trip to the Canadian Rockies and Glacier National Park in Montana. I will someday make this trip into a screenplay, because it was filled with interesting nuggets. The most interesting thing was aside from myself, the rest of the group was in their 50's to 80's.

Getting to my point. One evening we are at a restaurant at Glacier National Park. Our waitress has like 80 tables (clearly they are short-staffed). She is also in her early 20's. The group I was with could not have been more disrespectful of her not being spot on in her service (getting them their drinks/meal at the required speed before major asshole-ish behavior ensues). I watch them loudly complain about the service for about 45 minutes, when in reality I see this girl busting her ass to help everyone she can in the room.

So after sitting quietly for so long, I finally say the following, highly embarrassing my grandparents, but I could give a flying fuck at this point:

"Turn around and look behind you"

(There is a view of gorgeous mountains and splendid nature)

"All you folks have done for the last bit is complain about the service you are getting from this poor overworked girl. You are threatening to leave no tip. And you are ignoring why we are here, which I though was to relax and enjoy the splendid scenery. Just know if ya'll decide to leave no tip, I will leave her a sizable one for the effort she has made, and for the fact that she has had to put up with this nonsense from what are supposed to be grown-ups"

Silence.

She got a good tip.

And my grandparents, while embarrassed, later seemed rather proud of my "moment"

[kimi]

13. Alright!

Yes, you did a good thing! Kudos!

[molly77]

326. dave 29

I like you.

[kimi]

14. I've never been a waitress or bartender

Have been a nurse, which may be a related field, dunno.

But I travel frequently, and have enormous respect for flight attendants, waitstaff, and all of those who have to serve the public. The "public" is often comprised of unmiitigated assholes, frankly.

I always tip well, 20 percent at the least, more often 40 to 50 percent. It's very little compared to how much I receive in consideration when I am out with my sweety and we are taken care of. That means more to me than anything. And I know how little consideration is often given to the folks who work these jobs, so I try to do my part in showing my appreciation. Every little bit helps. IMHO.

[AnneD]

284. I am a Nurse now....

but worked my way through college as a waitress. I like to say that the public thinks of us as glorified waitress...fluff my pillow, bend my straw, get me some juice. I even refer to the med pass as the cocktail hour :evilgrin:

I have a healthy respect for them and I too start tipping at the 20% and up. If I can't tip decently, I alter my choice or don't eat. I tend to eat at the same places and boy, do I get great service. Even my mom commented on it the last time we went out to eat. Always tip your breakfast waiters esp well and even more if it is Sunday.

[TorchTheWitch]

15. us tip workers are getting CRUSHED in this shitty economy

And as a dancer, I don't even get that paltry $2.50 an hour but have to pay the club to work including mandatory payments to various club staff. These days it's a crap shoot whether or not you walk out at the end of a shift in the negative. These shitheaded cheap ass obnoxious customers have always been around, but since the economy hit the skids they're practically the only customers left at all. I can't count how many times I've had some jackass trying to slobber and grope me all over while at the same time bitching that he can't part with a measly dollar because "didn't I know the economy is really bad now?"

My next door neighbor works as a waitress in the diner up the street for nearly two years since she can't find another accounting job. Same thing with her... shitheaded rude customers she runs her ass off for despite their nastiness and then stiffs her with this same comment about the bad economy like it's some kind of an excuse!

Us tip workers have always had to deal with the scum of the earth in rudeness and cheapness, but with this economy in the past year or two suddenly nearly ALL the customers have gotten like this.

Jesus Mary Joseph and Fred! If you can't fucking tip then stay the fuck home!

[femrap]

68. I am absolutely

shocked....you have to pay 'da man' for your job??????

Jesus Mary Joseph Fred and Wilma! This is the saddest, most unjust thing I have heard in a long fucking time.

We are in a Depression.

I'd contact the state Attorney General and see if this is legal...this is some sort of slavery.

How do keep from kicking these assholes? I'm so sorry you have to put up with this. This has literally made me sick to my stomach.

Fucking cheap penises.

[TorchTheWitch]

129. oh it's perfectly legal

Technically we're independent contractors (except in reality we aren't), so the house fee per shift (and a shift is only about 4 or 5 hours) is like a stage rental fee much like a hairdresser is charged a booth fee. The mandatory tipouts to various staff members like the DJ and housemom and security and champagne room host, etc. are considered OUR subcontractors even though they aren't because we have no control over them whatsoever... it's just yet another way for the clubs to avoid paying salaries for what is very obviously THEIR employees.

The dancers aren't ever going to complain about any of this either because it changes nothing and will likely get you blacklisted so that the only club you will get a job in is in some other state. Besides, the entity to complain to is the IRS when it comes to the decision as to whether one is an employee or an IC, and most dancers aren't paying taxes anymore. California has deemed dancers as employees years and years ago but not a damn thing has changed in how the clubs are run, and they have some of the highest house fees I've ever heard of.

This was all ok years ago when we could come and go as we pleased and the fees were reasonable because there was a LOT of money to be made. Things have changed so drastically since then yet the fees are either the same or have gone up, the ability to make any money has plummited and the clubs have demanded more employee-type control of the dancers.

I've heard more than once from managers or owners that their best customers are the dancers and they think this is so funny because they know we are aware that they're only still in business because we pay their employees' salaries though we are also treated as employees and they have to pay nothing for unemployment benefits, workers' comp, health insurance or any of the other things that employers have to pay for having employees. I also feel badly for other staff members because those people aren't getting employee status either... the clubs consider them either OUR subcontractors or they get paid under the table. How a club gets away with having no bartenders, kitchen staff or waitstaff on the books boggles my mind but they do get away with it... paying someone off no doubt. This is still a VERY underground business.

And honestly, I STILL wouldn't give a shit about all this gross unfairness if I could just make decent money like I used to before this economic meltdown.

[Cowpunk]

219. I know I'm probably a dick for saying this, but....

Y'all need to organize. Do you think the fact that dancers are stigmatized by society makes such a thing impossible? It's not unheard of for dancers to protest for their rights. Here's an article about a dancer's union organizer. Do you get the feeling that your fellow dancers are ashamed of what they do(I'm sure not all of them are), and this keeps them from demanding more respect? Paying the DJ and bouncers out of your tips seems ridiculous. Do you work in one of those BYOB places?

[lildreamer316]

255. Okay, I really gotta step in here.

Being a dancer also (since 1994; I don't dance much anymore, just occasionally) and the wife of a gentleman's club dj, I've been over and over and over this issue for years.

Torch The Witch is right..."This was all ok years ago when we could come and go as we pleased and the fees were reasonable because there was a LOT of money to be made. Things have changed so drastically since then yet the fees are either the same or have gone up, the ability to make any money has plummeted and the clubs have demanded more employee-type control of the dancers."

I was very active in those days, and as an IC I valued and still value the freedom that it offers. However, times have changed drastically and the devaluation of entertainment (which yes, exotic dancing is really supposed to be, lol!) has lead to a HUGE influx of girls who have absofuckinloutely no IDEA what they are doing or how to do it..leading to all sorts of problems. Suffice it to say that owners, of course, are taking advantage of the large pool of availability and consequently, our IC status is not the good thing it once was.

HOWEVER, I still would rather be an IC than an employee, ANY day. As well as making me, in effect, my 'own boss'; it also gives me some measure of anonymity, albeit small, that being an employee does not. If one wants such anonymity it is still slightly easier to attain if one is an IC.

Also, being an IC, I am tipped because I am. The DJ is tipped by me because he is ALSO an entertainer who works with me to help me create the atmosphere I can best entertain in. He reads the room, knows me, and then plays songs that will make me the most money from those customers at that particular time. It is an art form, just as much as what we do is. Sure, it would be absolutely wonderful if the owners would be smart enough to pay the djs and the bouncers (and for that part, the damned MANAGERS) what they are really WORTH - but then it also takes a couple of factors out of the equation - the human ones. The dj is providing me a service, and he is also providing me a service based on my previous tipping of him. This can work to my advantage as well as my disadvantage, and I like the FREEDOM to be able to shape my working experience and environment into one in which I can make the MOST money I am capable of. Again, another plus of being an IC.

Now, there's a side solution to the tipping-the-dj-and-bouncers thing, and one that a particular chain I know of has employed. That is, they made their djs and bouncers ICs also. The djs pay to work, as much as $200-$300 on a weekend night. The bouncers pay a smaller fee also. I remain divided about whether or not this is really a good solution.

But the bottom line remains..most people, like you, did not know that we almost ALWAYS have to pay to work. I don't think I've ever worked anywhere were I haven't; unless it was a brand new club trying to attract girls. We also pay for our own outfits, shoes, makeup, gym memberships, etc. etc. etc. Only good point here is that most of that is a tax write off.

Last point..yes, organizing efforts have been going on for years. Also, there is now a wave of girls suing for back house fees because they feel they were treated as employees and should not have been classified as ICs. I understand their points, and if the owners in this industry don't collectively start pulling their heads out of their asses, they will find laws soon enacted all over the country to FORCE them to consider us ICs. If they don't want the ensuing taxes and pain in the ass(EXPENSIVE) paperwork problems; they had better start treating us better and find other ways of creating the environment they desire in their clubs. It really isn't that hard.

Anyway, sorry for the hijacking of the thread..it's just an issue near and dear to my heart.

[TorchTheWitch]

266. You must have worked with good DJ's

Aside from ONE DJ I ever worked with (who was totally awesome, btw) they all sucked ass. No, we couldn't chose our own music especially if more than one stage was running a time, they'd call you by the wrong name, not realize the next dancer up to replace you was late to the stage and left you up there having to keep dancing since we couldn't have an empty stage, play obnoxious songs purposely to make you look bad if they felt you hadn't tipped them enough or just generally didn't like you or because some other dancer tipped him to do that to you, etc., etc.

As far as I know, DJ's have always been IC's, but they've never been our subcontractors and never should have been deserving of mandatory tip-outs because the only way to retaliate against them for all those times they didn't help you look good, but the biggest reason the clubs decided to establish mandatory tip-out amounts was because they weren't getting tipped as well as they used to, and the weren't because WE weren't (or because they sucked). The clubs gave THEM a way to keep from leaving a shift with nothing, but not us.

And when you consider that DJ's don't have anywhere near the overhead they used to they're even less deserving of mandatory tip-outs. They used to have to buy there own equipment and all those scads of cd's until the clubs put in permanent equipment and they can grab any songs they want online for free or the club pays for them... all they need now is a laptop.

DJ's are the only ones in the clubs not hurting from this shitty economy because of those mandatory tip-outs even when they know the dancers are giving them 50% or more of what they made or even having to go to the ATM and use their personal funds to pay them. Dancers, waitresses, bartenders... we're all being crushed while they're still doing just as well as ever and maybe even better with all the extra dancers the clubs are shoving in the clubs just so they can collect house fees.

Maybe it's somewhat different where you live, but around here the DJ's are doing BETTER in the last two years because of all those tons of extra dancers the clubs are hiring, the longer shifts they have to work to earn anything and all the mandatory tip-outs they're collecting from all that.

Other than that, I agree with everything you've said, but don't count on the clubs wising up. They won't. There will ALWAYS be plenty of woman willing to pay the clubs and the clubs' workers in order to give out $10 blowjobs all night and make $50 at the end of their shift.

A few months ago I was talking to this dancer I worked with at my last pathetic club I left who was trying to convince me to go audition at club X thinking that charging the customer $100 for a totally private half hour champagne room when the club took a $65 cut was a really good deal. JESUS FUCKING CHRIST!!! >>>THUD<<<

:* :hi:

OK, enough of my hijacking... oops.

[TorchTheWitch]

259. it's been tried

For the most part dancers as a group don't want to make any waves for a variety of reasons. One is that yes, very many aren't "out" about what they do and don't want to be because of the stigma. It took me years to let most of my family know and my closest friends... I don't want my mom to know (my father is died a long time ago) and I don't want extended family to know. Seeing as at some point I may have to go back into the corporate world, I certainly don't want the general public to either know or be able to find out. Another big reason is that this isn't a long term career for the most part. Precious few dancers do this for more than a few years or only do it part-time. Other factors are most are very young and haven't a clue what their rights are and are too afraid to make any demands even if they did know, mary have drug and/or drinking problems, many are hookers and pretty much all of us cross the technically legal line in what it is we do, yet we have to do some of these things.

Yep, mandatory tip-outs to other club employees is an absurdity just as waitresses having to tip-out bus persons and having to pool tips. The clubs just make the claim that these workers are OUR subcontractors when they most certainly are not according to the law (and according to the obvious).

I've never worked in a BYOB club and won't. The sort of customer they attract are the opposite of the sort that tends to spend money on me. They also seem to attract the young and obnoxious/broke/cheap customers.

I only have maybe a few years left in this line of work if I'm lucky because I'm old, so at this point I really just don't care what happens to this business other than that brief time I have left in it.

[MH1]

94. What I don't get, is the restaurants around here are still always packed.

from the volume, you'd never guess there was a recession.

I figure, if I can still afford to go out to eat, I can afford to tip (assuming it's deserved, and it takes a really crappy server for me to short the tip; I almost never do).

[TorchTheWitch]

153. bless you

You're one of the VERY few that's left.

[alphafemale]

16. I taught my kids that if you can't afford to leave a good tip you can't afford to go out period

Get yourself a DiGiorno and a six-pack and keep your broke ass at home.

[baldguy]

217. +1000

[leveymg]

17. People are getting drunk, but don't have two dimes to rub together.

Where does that remind me of?

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,1064353,00.jpg

[WinkyDink]

22. Cheap thrills are better than none.

[a la izquierda]

63. Is that supposed to be Russia?

You might want to note that. Otherwise, your post looks like you're calling out the poor, or worse, the homeless. Absolutely nothing about those pictures screams Russia, which is truly where I "hope" you're going with this.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

165. The first and second are obviously Russian...

It was clear to me. :shrug:

[Leftist Agitator]

107. Is there a purpose or reason for you to mock the homeless?

Aside from just generally being an asshole, of course...

:eyes:

[defendandprotect]

187. Obviously, people everywhere turn to alcohol when depressed ....

let's lift the condition of our citizens -- and citizens everywhere --

and there is less cause then for people to turn to alcohol and drugs --

[leveymg]

241. It's Russia - the point is that just as their Cold War empire collapsed, so is ours.

No mocking of the victims intended. Quite the opposite. I only wish that history didn't repeat itself in this way, and that some people didn't make personal attacks out of context based upon their misreading (intentional?) of obvious visual clues.

[PJPhreak]

18. I was a Dishdog in a local greasyspoon...

And had the horrible "Sunday Brunch" shift.

One Sunday this 4-top walked in,ordered a mass of food and drinks,trashed the table, acted like privileged snobs and ran the poor waitron to death (She was a 17 year old high school student) after 30 minutes of running her ass off these fucktards announced very loudly that they were not going to leave her any tip...Because "They" did not believe that one should work on Sunday! Had her in Tears!

My Boss (A Devout Freeper BTW) walked over to their table and started to remove their plates,"But we are not done eating" one of them shouted...Don retorted with "Oh Hell Yes You Are,In fact you are so done that you can take your Fat arses outta MY restaurant! The look on their faces was priceless! "But we PAY YOU by eating here!" one of them said...His retort,"If this business needed your money THAT Badly,I would shut this place down before serving Snobby Arseholes like you,Now get Out!

He then gave the Waitress a Tenspot for having to put up with as he said "Stupid Fucktards" like this.

Made my day!

[catrose]

84. THEY did not believe one should work on Sunday?

But they go to place that would require someone to work to take care of them? I do not believe people should work on Christmas, Thanksgiving, and various other NATIONAL holidays, except for vital positions like police, fire, and health care (and they should be paid double). So I do not go to restaurants, grocery stores, movie theatres or any place that would require people to wait on me. The emergency room, God forbid, would be okay.

Bravo for your boss. Does he have any positions open?

[PJPhreak]

116. Lol, I wouldn't know,

Its been over a year since I worked there.

[cleveramerican]

19. the amount of the tip should be and is DIRECTLY related to the service and the food

I am always respectful and curteous to waiters and clerks and cashiers.
but if the order gets screwed up or the food sucks or the service is slow,
It IS going to be reflected in the tip, Thats just the way it is.


Some portion of the public are complete pricks, and always will be.

If you want to know why I tipped 3%, ask me, I will tell you.
There is always a reason.
but if you get pissed I just may end up telling you;
YOU TOOK THE JOB, YOU KNEW THE PAY, SO LIVE WITH IT!


The other night some friends and I went out to a spot on main street
ordered, was served and enjoyed our meal.
I asked for the tab, she said okay...
AND DISAPPEARED FOR 30 MINUTES
I was so pissed I almost walked out without paying at all, It would have been soooo easy.
I couldn't believe they got the hard part right and COMPLETELY SCREWED UP THE EASIEST PART!
at this point NO TIP is inevitable.
Leaving me sitting there with no food or drinks left for 30 minutes is beyond the pale and there must be retribution.

[WinkyDink]

23. "Retribution"? Wow. Why didn't you just open your da*n mouth and SAY something?

[cleveramerican]

31. I kept thinking she would be back any second

[pipi_k]

72. OK, the "any second" excuse would only work for the first ten minutes...

After that, I think it's just foolish (or lazy?) to sit there for another 20 minutes thinking she'll be back "any second".


Flag down another waitress and explain the problem. Find the restaurant manager. Maybe your waitress became ill or something.

There are all sorts of reasons why someone would "disappear" for 30 minutes, and if someone just sits there for 30 minutes (I'm assuming you actually timed it) then that's just silly.

[bettyellen]

119. well you don't look so clever now, do you?

[alphafemale]

26. look keedohs!!!! An asshole!!!!

I bet he finds an excuse to stiff on the tip EVERYTIME he goes out! Don't you?

RETRIBUTION to the person that brought you your food!

RETRIBUTION there must be RETRIBUTION!!!!

[cleveramerican]

29. I generally tip well

but I do hold tight to the privilege of withholding it.

If you tip generously for poor food or service , you are a fool.

[Tsiyu]

147. Servers don't cook

So if you leave a poor tip due to food quality, you are not doing anything to let those who cooked the food know.

The back of the house gets paid regardless.

If your food is not to your standards, ask the waitron to return it to the kitchen to either fix it or prepare something to your liking. We in the kitchen may not like it, but we will usually do our best to make it right so the waitron isn't mad at US.

If that doesn't work, talk to the manager. Perhaps your bill will be adjusted. You can leave the balance with your over-worked server.

Blaming the server is just ridiculous.


Tips are for service only, IMO. I get sick of jerks who use any excuse to stiff these folks.

[Ikonoklast]

160. I highly doubt that.

Bad tippers are almost always bad tippers, they find excuses for their shitty behavior.

Like you did.

[baldguy]

218. Withholding a tip is not a privilege - it just means you're a dick.

[Jakes Progress]

279. Not hard to guess whether you

Ever worked at the trade. If you had you would know there are hundreds of reasons why your personal needs aren't met to a tee.

[LanternWaste]

323. Or simply a generous soul complete with tolerance...

"If you tip generously for poor food or service , you are a fool..."

Or simply a generous soul complete with tolerance. But I imagine to many people, those are one in the same...

[Obamanaut]

30. After a few moments of check nonarrival, how hard would it have been

to go to the register and ask for it. Really.

You enjoyed your meal according to your post, and you CHOSE to let a minor inconvenience make it less enjoyable and save a couple of bucks.

[cleveramerican]

34. Minor is in the eye of the beholder

to me it was nothing like minor.

" tip me ,no matter what your experience", is arrogance masked as something else.

[Obamanaut]

45. And "I'm cheap and will use any excuse to prove it" is still just cheap. nt

[Codeine]

54. +1 Not tipping is a weak and small-minded power trip; nothing more.

A way for self-important douchenozzles to make someone else as miserable as they are -- petty, pathetic little simpletons.

[cleveramerican]

70. tipping generously after a bad service/meal is being a sap.

call it a power trip if it makes you feel better.

[Obamanaut]

95. Causing bad service by being an ass is being a sap. nt

[cleveramerican]

118. Blame the customer

always an easy fall-back position

[bettyellen]

121. you make t easy. just waiting (30 minutes) to have an excuse to be offended) sucker wasted 1/2 hour

[cleveramerican]

144. yeah thats what I was doing

that wasn't me hoping the meal would end on good note.

I went to their place hoping for a bad experience
looking for some excuse to withhold $20.
does this actually seem reasonable to you?

[bettyellen]

154. why sit unhappily for a half hour for no payoff? if you weren't going for revenge

your payoff was license to be a prick. Hope you're happy now.

[cleveramerican]

159. you are too close to it to see

your opinion is fully formed and un-movable.

I think that under certain conditions determined by me alone,less tip is my last,best recourse.

[bettyellen]

167. better for you to sit there like a miserable ass for 30 minutes? how much was that tip worth to you

sad.

[unapatriciated]

245. You had by your own account a nice meal with good service

You do realize that your server is human and for some reason forgot to bring your check. There may have been many valid reasons of why this server forgot, yet you couldn't after 5 or 10 minuets ask.
I was a server for many years and yes we get busy and sometimes we forget, it usually is not intentional. I'm curious what line of work you are in and if your employer docks your pay if you make a mistake.
Servers are paid min wage and in some states less than that and depend on tips to make up the difference. They also do not receive any benefits like health insurance, retirement, sick pay or vacation pay. It would be nice if the pay reflected the hard work involved but it doesn't. Not to mention a lot of servers are single mothers who are struggling, they are at or just above the poverty level. So be a little more caring next time and simply remind someone you are waiting on your drink, food or check.

[1monster]

181. And to flag down another server and explain that your check didn't come would

have ruined your evening? I've been in a similar situation on more than a few occasions. I simply ask another server to either get my check or find the wait person who served my party to bring the check. It certainly was never a big thing.

You have not painted a very flattering portrait of yourself at all. One is left with the (I hope incorrect) impression of a person whose self-esteem is so low that he/she cannot bring him/herself to ask for assistance, thus bringing self-esteem even further down. Of course, retaliating by withholding a well-deserved tip brings some false sense of having stood up for onesself...

[cleveramerican]

189. you could interpert it that way/ or you could see it in more real world terms

or you could just see I felt I didn't get exemplary service.
no tip was warranted and I made my decision to forgo it.


please spare me the armchair psycho-babble

[1monster]

202. Whatever. You remind me of a relative who can NEVER be wrong no matter how wrong he

is. His mitigating factor is that he is 18 years old and probably will out grow it.

The only times I have not received excellent service were in Orlando, two years apart in a restaurant that was incredibly and seriously understaffed. That was management's fault as my party went there twice, two years apart and found the restaurant was even more understaffed the second time than the first. The wait staff that was there worked their tails off. Since it took so long for the food to reach the table, I can only assume the kitchen was as understaffed as the dining room.

We "retaliated" by not going there ever again. We did not punish the wait staff by not tipping them when it was obvious they were doing the absolute best they could under extreme circumstances.

You stiffed your server because you didn't get what you consider "exemplary service." What is your job? Do you give every second of every minute you are working "exemplary" effort? Or is better than average or adequate the norm.

Not psychobabble, by the way. I said I hoped I was wrong in your case. Whether I am wrong or not is your call. I have no more time to waste with someone who cannot even acknowledge that there is anyway he might have been even slightly mistaken.

[cleveramerican]

208. if you have never recieved bad service...

how do you know I'm so wrong.

so your position is always tip generously no matter how awful the actual experience?
to me that sounds crazy, but of course I could be wrong.

[bettyellen]

211. you said the service was GOOD, one little mistake (check) and you become vengeful though

instead of opening your mouth 20- 25 minutes early you spent a lot of time stewing and working up some righteous anger.
Get over it, you choose to sit there for a half hour, you chose to turn a good meal with good serive into something you could bitch and moan and punish people over.
must have been a slow day for you.

[snappyturtle]

292. It doesn't seem to me that you got bad service for what you went

into the restaurant for in the first place.....a good meal. Did you go to the restaurant for the primary reason of having your tab finalized? I think you are the type of customer who consciously or not, looks for any itty bitty reason to bail out on a tip. Maybe if you had complained to a manager rather than taking it out of the server you would have been given a good deal on your next visit. If the restaurant you visited is a frequent 'favorite' the word will get around with the wait staff and you will see what shitty service is all about!

[AlabamaLibrul]

302. "Didn't get exemplary service" so I'll just let them twist in the wind for two and change an hour.

eom

[Obamanaut]

135. In this case, correctly identify (label) the customer. nt

[TorchTheWitch]

171. you're the one stiffing the waitress/waiter for bad food

Pot. Kettle. Black.

The tip is for the waitress/waiter for the service and as you very well know is part of their salary... the MAJOR part of their salary. That's why they only get $2.50 an hour if they get any actually pay AT ALL and the cook gets the same salary regardless of the quality of the food. They have nothing whatsoever for the food quality, so why are you taking it out on them? And why should they have to put up with rude and nasty behavior and not still get paid?

People like you need to work one of these type of jobs so you'll get it that people deserve to be paid for providing you with a service EVEN IF that service is not entirely to your liking just like retail clerks or any other service provider who still gets paid the same regardless whether they fawn over you or make a mistake or there's a problem that has nothing to do with their service to you.

[AlabamaLibrul]

301. Blame the worker. Always an easy fall-back position. Jesus Christ! n/t

[bettyellen]

126. and a needlessly miserable one at that.

[bettyellen]

130. you HAD a good meal and good service. One little mistake happened. You could have prevented an issue

and chose not to. you wasted a half hour fuming and blame them? that;s a bigger mistake than the waitress made. Sorry dude.

[Incitatus]

345. The quality of the meal is not server's fault.

Did the server keep your drinks full and check on you on a regular basis? If yes, then the server deserves a decent tip.

If you didn't like the food, don't eat there again.

[cleveramerican]

69. its too easy to call me cheap

and too hard to accept what I'm saying

I understand.

you think you get 25% no matter what
your dead wrong.
you will never understand the hard truth that you tip is ALWAYS irrevocabbly tied to my overall experience.

don't bother whining how its not your fault or some other excuse.

exemplary service gets a generous tip
adequate service gets an adequate tip
poor service gets a poor tip
If I leave feeling ripped off, no tip.

it doesn't matter if you like it or not.
this is the cold hard truth

[Codeine]

71. Yes, we get it. It's a power trip. We understand that.

We're just not impressed. We see you for the small, petty, pathetic person you clearly are. Your attitude toward those in the service sector is neither unique nor interesting.

[cleveramerican]

81. too easy to blame the customer/ call me cheap

your version has the customer as powerless.
Tip me no matter what your experience.
I reject this notion and take the power back when it is appropriate.

I don't care if you like it or not
thats the way it is

[Codeine]

87. "Take the power back"?! WTF?!

You're "taking the power back" from somebody bringing you food and putting up with your shit for sub-minimum wage? From someone running around with heavy trays for eight or more hours a day, sometimes on a split shift, all while trying to manage a smile and the ability to chat politely? From a person who goes home reeking of grease to a shitty apartment to kids who don't get to see her nearly enough?

Jeez. Understanding power dynamics and economic realities ain't your strong suit, is it?

[bettyellen]

122. ha ha ha .

[Bunny]

197. I'll call you cheap. And I'll call you a douche.

I don't care if you like it or not
thats the way it is

[WilliamPitt]

253. (epicfacepalm)

[AuntPatsy]

146. Your reply says it all, this is all about a power trip personality disorder...runs so rampant among

the, well you know....someone needs to think about a name change more fitting....

[Obamanaut]

76. Refer to response 45. Yes indeed "this is the cold hard truth"

45. And "I'm cheap and will use any excuse to prove it" is still just cheap

"this is the cold hard truth"

[cleveramerican]

82. so you tip bad sevice that same as good service ?

to me that seems STUPID.

[Codeine]

89. To me it seems like respect for folks who work their asses off

for not enough money. You wouldn't understand that though. Something tells me you're not exactly familiar with shitty jobs and anything other than a very comfortable lifestyle.

[Obamanaut]

92. I do not receive bad service. As soon as we are spoken to by anyone,

we begin to chat them up with (often) meaningless conversation. We speak about whatever the crowd might be at the time, the possibility of tired feet, how pleasant it is to be greeted by people who smile back at us, etc.

We get good service, without exception. You might try it. It works wonders.

I'm sure there are people who present an aura, a presence if you will, of misery - and this may be reflected in the service they receive.

[Codeine]

97. Precisely!

Waitstaff always treat me well because I treat them as I wish to be treated -- with absolute kindness and respect. They have a miserable fucking job; people should be ashamed to make it worse. A bit of respect will be repaid tenfold by those folks.

[TorchTheWitch]

177. you're the kind of customer we treat like gods

because you're so rare that it really IS a privilege to serve you and we fight amongst ourselves as to which one of us gets to be the so privileged one... that kind of over-the-top fawning attention that anyone working in other service jobs that aren't tipped would never dream of "lowering" themselves to.

Thank you.

[alphafemale]

222. That's my take on it.

Miserable fucking job. Dealing with assholes who think they're clever makes it that much worse.

A little kindness goes a long damn way. A little kindness brings better service even more than a great tip.

[bettyellen]

124. i bet your sorry ass gets bad service often. Looking for an excuse to weild your "power" LOL !

[cleveramerican]

149. Its pretty rare that I get bad service/ most places are pretty good at customer service

I do notice when bad service occurs though.

[backscatter712]

319. OK, Mr. Pink...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-qV9wVGb38

[pipi_k]

74. Well if it wasn't that minor, then you get up after ten minutes and find someone n/t

[bettyellen]

128. because he's a professional victim, revels in others mistakes and amplifies them till he's a martyr

[eilen]

228. I can't imagine the torture of having to sit at a table for 30 minutes...

with only the options of having conversation with your dining partners, of visiting a restroom, flagging down another waiter or getting up to find another employee. I guess leaving the busy waitress a crappy tip as a "service review" is the most rational way to resolve a delay. Sheesh. I wonder what happens when he has to take a cab and there's slow traffic.

[Cirque du So-What]

32. 'Retribution?'

Such an ugly word, especially when it's used against those at the lowest rung on the economic ladder. Is the ancient admonition to 'walk a mile in the shoes' of another completely lost on you?

[cleveramerican]

37. tips are earned through service

is this notion completely lost on you?

[Cirque du So-What]

86. It appears a LOT is lost on you!

Look at the preponderance of negative comments related to your desire to play the Big Shot - withholding your money & meting out 'retribution' against those who fail to live up to your standards of service. In our eyes, you're far from clever and would be better-named as 'uglyamerican.'

[cleveramerican]

91. you call it what you like

I am just offering the other side of the coin to the OP.
I understand its makes us all FEEL to better to assume there is no other side of the story.

[Cirque du So-What]

102. You're the one 'assuming'

How do you know that restaurant management had her performing some task that took away from her duties on the floor? Is someone who DARES to falter in their duties automatically guilty of negligence - going out of their way to ignore you personally? Is there some conspiracy afoot to provide lousy service to you?

I'm bringing up the possibility that there's another side to the story, but you're obviously determined to insist that there is NOT. Keep flailing about aimlessly if it makes you feel better about being sofa king cheap, but you'll NEVER garner an ounce of sympathy when you keep insisting that you're 100% right and that the waitstaff is nothing but slovenly wastrels. Look in the mirror before you accuse others of ignoring the possibility of another side to the story.

[Codeine]

104. He would be well-served to ask himself

why he keeps getting shitty service in restaurants. As someone who always gets treated well I can only assume the fault lies with "clever"american.

[Cirque du So-What]

115. I never have a problem either

I went to a nice restaurant a couple of weeks ago, and the greeter directed us to area where we were the first to be seated that evening. It was about 10 minutes before our waitress noticed us, and I was getting slightly impatient, but thoughts of 'retribution' certainly didn't cross my mind. She was obviously sorry about having missed us when she arrived, and I definitely didn't hold a grudge. The rest of the meal went swimmingly, the food was excellent, and I compensated for her service well.

The day that I start looking for excuses to stiff the waitstaff for various & sundry infractions is the day that I stop eating out altogether. I would rather go without dining out if I was such a hateful prick that the waitstaff dreaded seeing me coming.

[cleveramerican]

117. good tips result from good service is not an assumption

I don't care why she disappeared, that comes under the heading of "not my problem"

[LanternWaste]

324. Well, no. You're actually not

"I am just offering the other side of the coin to the OP..."

Well, no. You're actually not. You are however, defining who are are to many people. I understand the validation you get from assuming there's only two sides. :shrug:

[cleveramerican]

132. I am no big shot

I tip when its appropriate and don't when its appropriate.
a nice easy to understand and explain policy.

If calling me names makes you feel like big shot, be my guest.

[Cirque du So-What]

137. I understand perfectly

You want to punish those in the least powerful position, when blame may lie further up the chain...but you don't know and obviously don't WANT to know the reason. Much simpler to just stiff the poor waitress, isn't it? 'Service' doesn't begin & end with the waitstaff, yunno.

If the comparison to Leona Helmsley rankles, that's too bad. Remember, too, that Republicans are (in)famous for being bad tippers. If you want to be lumped in with that pack of assholes when you go to a restaurant, it's not my bidness. You have to look at your face in the mirror - NOT me!

On edit: in regard to the accusation of name-calling on my part, allow me to present the following quote from the accuser himself: 'If you tip generously for poor food or service , you are a fool.' Projection: a wonderful salve for the guilty conscience, n'est-ce pas?

[cleveramerican]

142. and you want me to be punished...

for making the decision to tip as I see fit.
You would like me to be powerless in the face of bad service, a victim?
I reject this notion out of hand.

[Cirque du So-What]

150. No, I don't want you to be punished. Where DO you get this stuff anyway?

Boy, did THAT come out of left field or what?!?

You are not powerless in the face of bad service. Confront the manager - the one responsible for all your woes...and make no mistake, the manager is responsible for everything that goes on in the establishment, including poor service. I would ask that you make sure beforehand that the poor service can be blamed on the waitstaff, however, before stiffing them. There are numerous reasons for poor service, and not all of them are due to incompetence or apathy on the part of waitstaff.

If this is a recurrent problem, however, I would look at the possibility that I'm eating in a lousy place or that my standards are ridiculously high. Personally, I can count on one hand the number of times that I've felt compelled to confront a manager over bad service, and I've likely been dining in restaurants for more years than you.

[cleveramerican]

156. I got it from the first line of your previous response

I made the mistake of sharing an actual experience where I ,justifiably I felt, withheld a tip.

I'll keep it nice and safe and bland from now on, so as to please you

[Cirque du So-What]

161. Don't hold back on my account

By the same token, don't be too surprised when people take exception to it. If it'd been an account of putting a powerful individual in his/her place, I expect the response would have been much different.

[bettyellen]

166. his response was to calling you out on your need for retribution and unwillingness to resolve things

and you're not even able to see or acknowledge that there were batter ways to handle things, even thoguh several people have explained it to you.
i.e. bad food: not the waitresses fault- so ask her to help you with that
half hour delay: should have been called to someone attention
it's called coping, instead of playing a little game where the payoff is revenge.
sorry dude, grow up and deal with it. you never tried to make it better experience. your misery is self made.

[cleveramerican]

192. its just crazy to think you derserve a tip despite poor service

I am quite sure you see it that way and thats okay with me.

[bettyellen]

199. you had good service, and you also withold tips for lousy food. that's being a jerk on both counts

one little mistake you could have very easily helped turn into no big deal. but you enjoy the pwer of being a cheapskate, so you waied and let it become a big deal.
seriously, you are the architech of yor own misery. you had good service and bam! found a reason to lash out anyway. Sad for anyone who has to cope w/ your BS, dude.

[cleveramerican]

204. I am not miserable

I Didn't feel well served
I acted with dispatch and feel perfectly okay about it.
I am not a victim or anything else you might wish to think.
If I had sheepishly forked over 25%, out of guilt freely handed out by folks like you, for bad service THEN I WOULD BE MISERABLE

yes It all could have turned out differently, but it didn't.
they could have gotten it right and gotten their 25%
Maybe next time.

[bettyellen]

207. ha ha , but you were for a full half hour and that;s just as much your fault as anyones

stop feeling so sorry for yourself, it;s pathetic

[cleveramerican]

210. not sorry for myself, maybe a little for you though

Its you who pathetically feels trapped to fork over 25% no matter what.
It must be hell to feel so completely dominated but someone else's, who you don't even know, opinion of you.

[bettyellen]

212. um, not ha ha- that was you trapped at the table for a half hour, you must not value ur life at all!

nothing better to do than sit and stew to make your point. grow the F up.

[phasma ex machina]

158. Pedantic subthread: In the book, the Ugly American is actually the hero of the story.

He is a physically ugly American engineer who helps indigenous people by inventing practical devices. Such as a bicycle driven irrigation pump.

Meanwhile, big government spends considerable resources shipping over big diesel powered irrigation pumps that end up sitting unused in crates for lack fuel.

Ironically our culture tends to get the story backward. People think of the ugly American as an American who behaves ugly: a boorish, big mouthed, small tipping, self centered jerk.

[WinkyDink]

170. Just stop a second and look at that word: "service." Another human being is SERVING you. And you're

posting about "taking back the power"??

I'm sorry, but you are cold-hearted. Letter, but not spirit.

[cleveramerican]

201. its a business deal for a meal.

[Codeine]

65. Good thing you're there to keep them on the straight and narrrow.

Who knows what those hard-working blue collar folks would do without the valuable lesson your lack of a decent tip has provided?

[cleveramerican]

75. are you saying ther are no lazy un-engaged poor performing servers?

why exactly are you tipping them generously?

[Codeine]

78. I've never had a shitty waitress or waiter.

Overworked servers, yes. Shitty ones -- no. I tend to give America's working men and women the benefit of the doubt.

[cleveramerican]

88. I am working man too

where is my benefit of the doubt?

[Codeine]

90. Are you paid sub-minimum and taxed as though you've been tipped?

Do you have to grovel and scrape in the hopes that self-righteous fools will see fit to tip you a few bucks?

Thought not.

[cleveramerican]

96. did you know the pay when you accepted the job?

are a going into the business deal of providing me a meal as a victim from the outset?

if so you are in the wrong line of work.

[Codeine]

100. Waitstaff take those jobs because - in case you haven't noticed -

the economic realities of the working class have been eating a dick for about three decades. It's not as though there are a dozen different job opportunities lined up waiting for most people.

WTF are you even doing at DU when you have such contempt for working men and women?

[cleveramerican]

120. you tip out of pity?

thats seems truly disrespectful of those hard working folks you claim to care so much about.

[latebloomer]

143. I don't think that terrible service deserves a good tip

I worked as a waitress and bartender for many years, and I'm usually a very good tipper. I'm well aware of how hard and unrewarding restaurant work can be. But I always strove to provide the best possible efficient, friendly service.

However, if a server is rude or incompetent, my tip will reflect this. I still will usually tip something, but maybe 10% instead of 20 or more. Terrible service or rudeness does not happen to me often, and is not a reflection of my attitude, as I am friendly and considerate. But when it does, I tip very low, with a note explaining why.

Just because people work in food service does not mean they get to treat me crappily and get rewarded for it.

[savalez]

152. +1. Good service = good tip. Two way street.

[Swede]

112. People are waiters to pay rent and put food on the fucking table.

What an ass!

[cleveramerican]

108. I expect competence and not an unreasonable amout of it.

Is that really too much to ask.


If you have never had bad service/meal in a bar or a restaurant,
why do you assume my point is baseless?
never having experienced it yourself?

[Codeine]

111. I suspect you've never received bad service either.

You're simply taking a lack of absolute worshipfulness as being "bad" so you have an excuse to "take the power back" from a conveniently-weaker person.

[cleveramerican]

127. sounds to me like tipping in power trip for YOU

helping those poor unfortunates with your towering kindness.

[Obamanaut]

157. Blame the tipper? A huge LOL. nt

[Posteritatis]

233. I've had precisely one

Half hour for the menu, another hour for the (cooled) meal when two-thirds of the seats in the restaurant were empty, etc, took two breaks in that period, etc. Only time I've done the one-penny "tip" thing, because they were definitely fucking up past benefit-of-the-doubt territory there. Any of the other lousy experiences I've had were obviously crammed bars/restaurants, simple (or not-so-simple) errors, etc., which I try to recognize happen now and then.

Past that, if I can't afford at least a 15% tip I don't think I can afford to go out in the first place, and my favorite haunts are good enough places that I prefer to tip closer to 25% just because I like seeing those places do well. I'm glad they're just a little inconvenient to get to, or else they'd have most of my money by now. ;P

[WinkyDink]

172. I know for sure there are crappy, selfish, and conceited customers.

[unapatriciated]

251. but according to your own account she gave you very good service

She made a mistake at the very end and you allowed it to last 30 minuets. So she earned nothing for the good service that was the major part of the meal? I will ask you again does your employer dock you when you make a mistake?

[tammywammy]

148. After 10 min why did you ask another waiter for assistance?

Last week I went out and I was finished eating and just waiting to ask for my check. You know what happened, my waitress had just gotten a table of 10 people that she was trying to get drinks and orders from. I had to wait a little longer than "normal." I still tipped her pretty darn well, because she was working her ass off.

"Some portion of the public are complete pricks, and always will be." Yep, and I think I can point out the prick in this thread....

[ElsewheresDaughter]

193. note to self: never go out to eat anywhere with cleaveramerican.

why didn't you just holler "Check" or go stand by the register instead of sit there for "30 min."?

[blondeatlast]

205. No kidding, right? He's the kind of guy I've actually walked out of dates with.

Slipping the server a ten on the way out.

Ugh.

[Prospero1]

200. servers deliver the food...

they dont prepare it. Don't blame the server for the cook's incompetence.

[The Gunslinger]

275. wow sounds like you got a built in excuse not to tip everytime.

BTW, the waitstaff doesn't prepare your food. And people these days have no choice but to "TAKE THE JOB". You'd probably complain if they decided to take unemployment instead.

PS. If you frequent the same restraints a lot, I'd love to see how your food gets prepared.

[LanternWaste]

321. Well, for you. For me it's an advertisement of my class...

"the amount of the tip should be and is DIRECTLY related to the service and the food..."

Well, for you. For me it's an advertisement of my class, my dignity and my realization that I'm not an expert at waiting tables.

Lowest tip I leave is 15. But then again, I realization that many people (not just myself) have bad days and off days, regardless of whether they need to pay this month's heating bills.

We all advertise out class in many different ways I guess.

[NBachers]

332. UUuuuuh just walk up to the cashier and ask for your check

You sound like a pro-active, take charge person

[RagAss]

20. This ex bartender thanks you for this post, Will ! People just don't get it.

[WinkyDink]

21. Always do. The math is easier for me that way. :-) (And my mother was a waitress.)

[babylonsister]

24. Rec'd. Been there, done that. These folks work hard and deserve

to be rewarded.

[NuttyFluffers]

25. $2.65 an hour? ... tips should be abolished and replaced with real wages instead.

and i also believe that we should account minimum wage according to backlogged inflation since the 1960s -- which if i remember correctly is something like $27 an hour in today's money. hell, we're already facing the economic hurt, what's a little more inflation? better to have a decent, consistent wage instead of this exploitative madness.

[mwooldri]

42. Agreed... that's why the UK isn't a nation of tippers.

You will get Brits coming to the US for the first time and thinking a quarter is a good tip. Well, it's the biggest coin in their pocket... and the servers will be working for a little over minimum wage for the most part (and there's no difference for minimum wage for any job - minimum is minimum).

I have learned this. There are places we go to frequently and we make sure our servers are looked after because we know if we look after them, they will look after us nicely.

Mark.

[Dorian Gray]

57. They are also not a nation of good service

[mwooldri]

60. Gordon Ramsay would like to [bleep]ing disagree with you there.

His restaurant in London - something else altogether, service is superb.

But yes, generally service in the UK is not up to US standards. Especially in supermarkets. Here you will have a person checking you out and either helping out with bagging, or a second person bagging your groceries. In the UK, you have a cashier, whose job it is to fling your groceries past the scanner as quick as possible, and look at you gormlessly while you attempt to pack your groceries, and when bags are provided having difficulty in getting them opened. But IMO I find that in general fresh produce selections are better in UK than in US - foodwise. But that's my opinion though and I do have a UK bias...

[AlabamaLibrul]

303. To be fair, that service sounds like what you get in any Walmart here. n/t

[NuttyFluffers]

316. Japan & Korea do not tip, & their service blows ours out of the water.

again, US biases do not hold up against the light of international travel. sometimes the world does have real answers, all you need to do is look around to find them. tipping is outdated, outmoded, and -- for $2.65 an hour + tip -- downright detrimental to the populace. poverty is another form of social violence, and the tradition of tipping to compensate for cheapskate employers is doing no one else but cheap labor advocates any good. tipping should be abolished and replaced with real, living wages.

[HipChick]

61. Brits aren't good tippers at home

so I doubt it would change much if they are abroad..

[femrap]

79. Sometimes I see

it written on menus that a tip will be added to the bill if the party is over 6. Maybe we should simply have a minimum tip of 10% and then the customer could add to it???

Just a thought.

And inflation...I dislike the word. I prefer to say 'loss of purchasing power.' TPTB have spun inflation into a 'good' thing. Since 1913, when The Federal Reserve of Bloodsuckers came into existence, our dollar is now worth 3% since then.

You know, maybe waitstaff should form a union!

And when fucking Reagan made waitstaff declare 8% of the total cost of the meals they served to the IRS, I nearly went ballistic. My mother was working at a Truck Stop at the time...from 11:00 pm to 7:00 am. I'd count up her tips when she got home. I'd get so mad that I'd cry.

[NuttyFluffers]

318. :) or we could agitate like hell to get min. wage over $20 nationwide...

and make sure no industry gets exemptions from avoiding $20 minimum wage. the 40 year wage freeze from republicans needs to be undone, period, end of story. it's a clean and neat solution in comparison to everything else being offered. just replace bad tipping system with wages equal to what they should be from all these decades of artificial suppression. boom, done, life is easier. then peg minimum wage to the rate of inflation -- hyperinflation? then drop a few zeros off the end. voila', easy.

to those petrified by the word inflation i want to say, so what about "loss of purchasing power," it only matters to people who already have gigantic sums of money stashed away (and fixed pension, annuities, but that's another story i'd correct for another day) -- for everyone else, it's just another number. whether you pay $0.25 50+ years ago or $4 now for a loaf of bread doesn't matter. what you earn today and spent today to live is not really affected to a great extent by "loss of purchasing power." it's all that fear talk by the talking heads on TV, making the gullible be afraid for things that don't affect them and thus work against their own best interest.

[cullen7282]

273. If tips were abolished

and servers were paid a living wage, the same people that complain about tipping well would have a fit about the price of their dinner increasing 50-75%. The people that complain about tipping don't take into consideration that they would be paying more for their meal otherwise.

[NuttyFluffers]

315. nonsense. Japan & Korea already do not tip. meals are affordable there.

in Japan they are admittedly small in portion (perhaps cultural issue), but they are definitely not in Korea. and most of Europe does not do "below minimum wage+tips" for waitstaff, and they aren't priced into oblivion for their people. that's just needless Fear Uncertainty and Discord being pushed into the discussion. the reality elsewhere around the world completely disproves the assertion. there is no reason to take note of this line of argument a second longer.

real wages for waitstaff, it's the right thing to do. :7

[madokie]

27. In my 62 years I've only been to a few bars where there were servers or bouncers

and when I was I was always nicey poo as I don't like getting my head beat in and I never liked being an ass, cause that will lead to getting ones head kicked in.
I couldn't imagine your job. Since my marriage 20 years ago I've only stepped in one place that served beer and I felt so out of place that I had to leave. My having inherited two young kids who needed my time and money more than the bar did made me uncomfortable. I don't miss the beer joint life at all. Hell I don't even drink any more.

I worked at the Warner Springs Resort, Warner Springs, Ca. back when I was stationed at the SERE training camp nearby. I worked as a bus boy paired up with a waitress and was paid 40 cents an hour but came home each night with 20 to 40 bucks in my pocket. This was back when my pay from the Navy was 21 bucks every two weeks. We worked for our tips so I can relate to the world you work in there but not the kind of work you do.

[Ineeda]

28. Another reminder:

bad food is no excuse for sub-par or non-existent tips. The waitstaff work just as hard serving you bad food as they do serving terrific food. They have no control over the preparation of your meal. I tip waitstaff generously because I would totally suck at the job -- being run ragged, having sore feet, courteously dealing with crappy, rude, demanding customers. If your meal is bad, complain to the manager.

[femrap]

85. When the food sucks, I

ask the waitress to see the manager. I tell him I'm not paying for this meal but I'm leaving a tip for the waitress since I know it's not her fault.

I've had no problems with this approach....the manager usually gives me a coupon to come back.

[Kolesar]

106. Yes, and I tip with cash so that they can pocket it, instead of waiting for a portion of a Visa pymt

I have had some instances where criticism of the quality of the food was not taken well. We don't eat out much. We are frugal, but not chislers.

[a kennedy]

33. I hear ya ....

my husband was a bus boy in his youth and has experienced how poorly some waitresses have it, so now and for as long as I've known him, he tips very, very well.

[Maine-ah]

35. this bartender and manager thanks you!

we've been straight out for a week now. A restaurant similar to the one I work at closed down, and has created some steady traffic where I work. It's also brought in a bunch of assholes.

[whyverne]

36. After 20 years I still have nightmares about being a bartender

in a joint much like WillyPitt describes. The stress was large. I thought the money was great at the time, but I had no other options to make $20+ per. And my feet still hurt.

People who aren't in the biz don't have a clue how complicated the whole tipping system can get. Tenders and servers have to pay the bus people out of their tips. Did you know most coat check people don't even get to keep their tips? Why? Cause in a busy place, they can make more than anyone else in the joint just for hanging coats. So their tips are often pooled with what the bus people get.

There are a lot of great folks in the restaurant biz. But, people want to own restaurants because you can hide a lot of cash and you can pay your help two bucks an hour.

[TBF]

38. It annoys me to no end that owners expect us to pay the cost

of the food AND wages when we go out to eat. It would not be that way in any economic system I would design or support.

I always tip based on service (the servers have no choice as to how the food tastes - they just deliver it), and I usually tip 20%. Service has to be pretty bad for me to do less. Many times it goes up to 25% because I have 2 kids (age 3&7) so I keep in mind they are often cleaning up more than usual at our table or stopping by more often with drinks.

[hayu_lol]

40. Oregon law is for food servers, bartenders and the like...

to get the full minimum wage plus tips.

[Gormy Cuss]

113. Same in WA and CA.

Servers know that they're getting at least $8/hr since all three states have minimums higher than the Federal minimum wage.

[Obamanaut]

46. If the owners increased the salaries so that no one would need tips,

the price of the food would go up to compensate.

[TBF]

52. Of course it would - that is how capitalism works -

profit before anything else.

[Gaedel]

83. The large number of failed restaurants.........

Shows what happens when you don't make a profit in the biz......

[Trajan]

294. Well ... Paying workers $1 an hour would solve that problem ...

Hey ! ... How abouts $0.50 an hour ? ... THAT will help the bottom line !


Look .... I don't want to slam you, but here is the point: The problem with the solvency of a restaurant is NOT the 'high pay' of their MINIMUM WAGE WORKERS !

It is the fact that TOO MANY of the possible group of paying patrons are making too little in wages to pay for a restaurant meal ...

The notion that restaurant workers should take a pay CUT so restaurants can make more profit is a HUGE part of the reason the economy is crumbling ... Its a result of the degenerate conservative economic philosophy that has already taken down the current system .... Your statement follows along those lines ....

The restaurant workers should NOT get paid less : EVERY OTHER WORKER should be paid more .... Then your buddies in the restaurant business can get back to counting their billions in the back room ....

The same argument was applied to those 'damned overpaid auto workers' ...

Well ? ... Auto workers can afford to buy cars ..... Its the rest of us who cannot buy them ...

Wanna end the recession ? .... RAISE wages .... Don't lower them ...

[LeFleur1]

174. We Always Tip Well, Too

But I'll never understand why these businesses expect us to pay their expenses. Why is that? If they can't run the business and pay their expenses (help) they need to get out of that particular business. If they up their prices 20% and hire people who give bad service, use bad recipes, they'll go broke. BUT if they up their prices 20%, serve good food, hire good servers, give notice that there will be no tips accepted, they'll most likely prosper.

[eilen]

232. Why? That is how your lawyer and physician bills you. nt

[BaltimoreDemocrat]

39. Treating people right, and why some people don't

To me, there is no surprise where rude behavior comes from in so-called upper class people. First, of course, they have a sense of entitlement and superiority coming from their family situation of wealth and privilege, but forgetting what family you are born into is simply a roll of the cosmic dice.
The other institution where folks can develop (or reinforce) this sense of entitlement and looking down on "lesser" people is college (and perhaps prep school, but I don't know anything about that). I worked for a small, expensive liberal arts college in the 1980's as a security officer. Because of the high tuition, students were coddled and protected, their destruction and filth was just cleaned up with little or no consequences, staff were often treated like servants. Once, the local police were on campus to serve an arrest warrant on a student (if I recall, the charge was fairly serious). The dean of students got all mouthy with the police, saying they had no right to be on campus, blah, blah, blah. The police sergeant said to the dean he had a choice: leave or get arrested. The dean left, of course, but whined to the college's attorneys the next business day. It is my understanding the lawyers said to drop it, because the cops were right.
I remember often what G. Gordon Liddy, of all people, said once in an interview. To paraphrase, he said it bothered him when people mistreat wait staff or maids or other service people. Liddy said the people who mistreat service people are cowards, because they can't fight back without jeopardizing if not the tip then perhaps their very job. I have always treated waiters and the like well, because I am a working man at heart and I know what hard work and working with the public is. I agree with very little Liddy says, but in this instance he is correct.
Oh, and it's not surprising certain Republicans are against minimum wage, etc. Many (particularly the teabaggers)are mean, shallow, greedy, self-centered and self-absorbed people who care nothing for others outside their own little world. I think it's really sad this has become a legitimate political thought or platform.

[femrap]

98. I'm surprised Liddy

said this. I totally agree with you about Teabaggers....they are horrid. They represent everything that is horrid in the human condition. And then to top it off, they stand with the Bible. The Koch brothers should be in jail for funding such an atrocity.

Welcome to DU!

I grew in a small college town where all of the students were primarily out-of-state and completely self-entitled. I was a 'townie.' I know exactly what you are talking about. The only thing good about that damned high-priced liberal arts school was the Student Union where they served the best cheeseburgers at a very low cost!

[handmade34]

41. good rant

I have worked as a waitress (and loved it) and now I find myself having to eat all of my meals out. I always tip very well...

[annabanana]

43. My kid sister waitressed for years... ALWAYS tip something please..

The IRS assumes that you do, and count it as wages, whether they get the dough or not. My Great Gramma's people always maintained that you could tell who was "well bred" (sorry) by how well they treated everybody, regardless of social stature.

It is thankless, very hard physical & psychological work (people are insane about their food).

[snappyturtle]

295. You'fe absolutely right. These fancy cash registers knows exactly

how much each server (dollar amount) serves. If a customer, like the now infamous one here, leaves nothing for a tip, the server is not only left tipless but behind 8%, I think it is (or was). The IRS assumes the waiter/server got at least 8% in tip. Crazy business................

[elocs]

44. Totally agree, although I skipped to the end to read your point.

Anyone who has ever worked at a job where tips were important knows enough to treat the people well who work for tips.

[kentuck]

47. Have you thought about getting back into teaching, Will ?

From the frying pan into the fire, so to speak?

[bigwillq]

48. I've worked at bars before

and it's such a different perspective from when you're on the other side of the bar.
I agree with you. Treat your servers well. It really is a tough job.
:hi: :hug:

[LittleGirl]

49. worked 10 yrs in food service

Restaurants and pub type places. It's the hardest job in the world. You have to suck up to the diners and smile for your pay. Try it sometime. It's emotionally, physically and financially draining.

Some people think those tips are tax free. Think again. I don't know the current rate of taxation but back in the 80s, the gov't thought $2.01 an hour plus tips was a lot of money. They started the 8% taxation on your total sales. So no matter whether you made 8% in tips or not, you had to claim that much for taxation. Most of my paychecks were negative and most restaurants don't offer any benefits whatsoever. No health care, no sick pay, nothing.

While it took me 20 yrs to finish my degree, the first 10 I worked in restaurants and somehow survived living in a studio apt with water and heat included. I worked Friday and Saturday nights and my last job also included Sunday brunch. Those shifts were my second job as I worked for 5 bucks an hour as a secretary during the day. It was in the early 80s and I went a stretch for 8 months with one full day off. Fridays I worked both jobs. 14+ hr ones.

Some days I miss the banter with customers and some days I remember nightmares like when one of my tables (seated last in the evening before closing) walked out on me without paying. The manager scolded me for 'allowing them' to get out yet they walked right past him on their way to the door. He said I'd have to pay their bill with my tips, which would have wiped me out from what I earned for the whole evening. When I got over my shock and anger and tears overwhelmed me, I handed over my tips for the night. He relented and said he'd cover the 'loss'. I quit soon after and have said since that I retired from waiting tables. I was 26.

[Mnemosyne]

50. When I last waited tables, $2.50 per, we were taxed as if we made

minimum wage, even when tips weren't there. Does it still work that way?

I always overtip, 25%, to make up for the stiffs, unless server is a total wanker.

Stay safe!

[tammywammy]

145. Yes it still works that way

As far as I know it. I have never worked as a waitress, BUT I'm in the most interesting class at school (Hotel & Restaurant Mgmt) and the professor is someone that's owned or worked in restaurants for his whole life.

He says they're still taxed like they got a tip.

[Mnemosyne]

313. Despicable unfair practice, imo. Thanks for the info, TW! n/t

[madrchsod]

51. my wife has been a bartender/waitress on and off most of her working life...

she takes the good with the bad with a smile on her face .the good get a tad bit extra and the bad gets...yes she`s chased down customers in the parking lot to give them back her tip.

[druidity33]

53. I'm a dishwasher...

in a busy bar/restaurant.

And i endorse EVERY WORD YOU JUST WROTE.

It amazes me sometimes who tips and who doesn't. Inevitably it's the people who can most afford it that stiff you. Suited people are the absolute worst... they are the most important people in the world and must be treated like royalty (or there will be retribution!). Often, the folk with the least money tip the best... and that really says something about our society.

:(

[Codeine]

56. This blue-collar retail worker salutes all my service-worker brethren,

and I tip as much as I can possibly manage. :hug:

[leeroysphitz]

55. TL;DR

[MissB]

58. I don't understand people who don't tip.

Maybe they've never had to work a crap job before. Dunno.

As an aside, Oregon's republican gov candidate said last week that servers shouldn't get minimum wage (Oregon's is much higher than $3/hour!), because of tips. He then said something about a training wage.

I do hope he doesn't plan on going out to eat for the rest of his campaign.

[IDemo]

59. We always leave a generous tip

In fact, last week the manager came over to our table and asked if we were sure about the amount and we assured him we were.

[dem mba]

62. all the comments are making me think of this

http://www.theonion.com/articles/10percent-tip-teaches-waitress-valuable-lesson,2070/

10-Percent Tip Teaches Waitress Valuable Lesson

CONCORD, NH—After receiving "subpar" service and experiencing an unusually long wait for his $4.75 lunch at a local Beefside Family Restaurant Monday, customer Gus O'Connor opted to give waitress Carla Hyams a reduced 10 percent tip in an attempt to communicate his dissatisfaction and raise awareness of the areas in which he felt her performance was lacking.

/snip

[senseandsensibility]

169. LOL

Best post on this thread.

[femrap]

64. Will, if it's

The Suits w/ the Gold Card, can't you 'brick' them at the door? (Did I use the term correctly?)

Were The Suits the dudes from the convention across the street? The world has become a very mean and cruel place. I remember when The Suits liked to flash their cash and give big tips to 'the little people.' Now it has become this mean and cruel? Out of curiosity, are the servers mostly male or female?

Seriously, I would have a talk w/ management and see if there would be a way to get these people removed from the establishment....'Sorry dudes, but this table has been reserved for so-and-so at 9:00. Yes it is unfortunate for you, but time is money as you well know.'

I worked on commission for years...I know what it's like. I still have nightmares that it is the end of the month and I haven't sold a thing. And it was 100% commission.

My attitude is....if you can't afford to tip at least 15%, you stay home.

Your story reminds me of Cleveland, 1971 (yeah, I'm old). I lived there for one year during my senior year of high school. Whenever I went out, it seemed as if people enjoyed giving others crap. It was like entertainment to them. It was 'fun' to them. I just didn't get it. I'd like to go to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but it's in Cleveland...I just can't do it. Then when I went to college the next year, I met all kinds of cool kids from Cleveland...weird, huh?

Sorry for the ramble.

[pipi_k]

66. The unfortunate thing is...

that the people who treat others with disrespect bordering, or even crossing over into, blatant contempt, won't see themselves and will never change.

It's all about THEM, and anybody who serves them has got to be less than human, in their view. I hate to admit it, but I do get a giggle or two when a contemptuous asshole gets some unsavory foreign material added to whatever he or she ordered.

:evilgrin:

I did a short stint as a waitress many years ago myself as a teenager, so I know how hard and thankless the job can be. I always make a point of being extra specially polite to wait staff, even if I'll probably never see them again. That includes leaving a decent tip. I've often found that merely being pleasant and polite from the beginning results in decent service.

[femrap]

109. My favorite part of the

movie, 'The Color Purple' was when Oprah spit into that horrid dude's drink.

I, too, worked a short time as a waitress. I remember one table of six men who were headed to the bowling alley. As I served one dude his meal, he asked me if I was on the dessert menu. I said, 'Do you want to eat this or wear it?' I got the biggest tip ever.

[pipi_k]

190. Hee hee...

It's neat that the guy had a sense of humor :)




Did you ever see this commercial?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Jv_T8-8q_I

[femrap]

256. Yes....that's a

good commercial. My favorite of today is the little 'wee wee wee' pig being driven home.

[pipi_k]

280. Yep, Geico usually has some real good commercials....

I like the "wee wee wee" one too.


:7

[JoeyT]

67. K&R

A waitress/waiter would pretty much have to throw a drink in my face on purpose to forfeit their tip. And even that wouldn't do it if I thought I deserved it.

There are few jobs that pay less and few jobs that are harder work.

[cleanhippie]

73. Having been a server and bartender, I think tipping should go away.

And a real wage paid to the employees. If a server or a bartender can make 200-300 dollars a night on tips (regularly) then up the prices and pay them an equivalent wage. It takes the uncertainty out of it.

A server at Denny's is going to get tipped much less than a server at Ruths Chris, right? Well then, pay them a wage that is comparable to what the tips would be.

Never liked the tipping system, too much uncertainty and an expectation of it even when not deserved.

[DirkGently]

77. Well said. Beyond a fair tip, I think it's a worthy practice to acknowledge and thank *anyone*

performing a service for you professionally. A smile, a nod, a simple "thank you," is due anyone giving a service, and may help balance out a stream of @ssholes that may come before or after. Being treated like crap is cumulative. Be the break in the chain of stink.

[Codeine]

80. "Be the break in the chain of stink."

I like that. I like it a lot. :yourock:

[pipi_k]

99. And we can carry that over into general life as well...

Yesterday Mr P and I went out with another couple to a small local place for an early dinner. We were very pleasant and friendly to the waitress, who responded in kind and practically fawned all over us the whole time.

Which isn't the point, though...the wife of the other couple was saying how many strange looks she gets from men when she holds doors for them. I told her I do the same thing...it's not an issue of not being a "lady", whatever that means...just basic human consideration.

Hold a door for someone who is having trouble, or just because...

Thank someone else who's held a door open...


"Please", "Thank you", "You're welcome"

We all should have learned this stuff in Kindergarten.

It makes life so much more pleasant...

:)

[customerserviceguy]

188. That is a great phrase

Thanks for adding it to my repertoire.

[blondeatlast]

206. "Be the break in the chain of stink." LOVE that. nt

[lonestarnot]

93. Libs always are the best tippers.

:D

[Joanne98]

101. I've worked as a waitress and a bartender. I always tip good.

I know who you're talking about. I've always had a fantasy about dumping a full plate of food on someones' head. Never did it but SURE DID WANT TOO!

The low minimum wage and tax on tips was stupid. It should go back to the way it used to be.

Minimum wage and TAX FREE tips.

[datasuspect]

103. maim and slaughter?

have you ever taken a human life?

[Demeter]

105. On Behalf of all waitstaff, past present and future, THANK YOU!

[alfredo]

110. Waiters fight back

http://www.lousytippers.com/

When I think of lousy tippers Marty Stewart, the late Sydney Sheldon, and Martina McBride come to mind.

I was a cabbie in Detroit. I found the richer the fare, the smaller the tip. Hookers and junkies tipped better than GM execs.

Cops used cabs to pick up their protection money (using their own car would be foolish), so out of self preservation they shared part of their take, be it money or drugs. The fare plus "profit sharing" makes for a good afternoon for a cabbie.

[GoCubsGo]

114. It's shameful that this even needs to be pointed out.

I know some locals who were waitstaff, and they said the worst times were on Sundays. Here in the Bible Belt, it's a big thing to go out to lunch/brunch after church. Many of the good "Christian" church goers around here are the worst tippers--if they left a tip at all. Some of them think that some pre-printed card with Bible verses on it is an adequate tip.

[TorchTheWitch]

186. my waitress next door neighbor says the same thing

That the after church Sunday crowd is the absolute worst... rude people that run you ragged and don't tip at all. She hates having to work Sundays, and the diner she works in even had to make it a rule that all the waitstaff had to work X amount of Sundays a month because none of them would put in for Sundays on their schedule requests even though it was usually the busiest time in the diner.

[tammywammy]

252. I'm currently taking Hotel & Restaurant Mgmt

My professor owned a popular restaurant in Ft Worth for many many years. He got tired of the after Church crowd on Sundays that he changed his hours to be closed on Sundays. Everyone in the class that's ever worked at a restaurant (I worked at Starbucks for 3 years and an independent coffee shop for another year) all agreed after church on Sunday were the worst customers.

[unapatriciated]

258. Mothers Day is the worst.

You work three times as hard for less money. It is so busy you barely have time to breathe let alone give good service. All your tables are big parties, the checks are large and the tip is usually small. It's profitable for the house not so much for the server. When I was waiting tables you could not get that day off unless you wanted to be looking for another job.

[lib2DaBone]

123. Anyone who has ever worked food service or hotel knows how it feels...

I always tip and never give the waiters a hard time...

I know how it feels at 2 a.m. when your feet are crying for relief, your back hurts and your hands are wrinkled from hours of busing tables and washing glasses.

It's a hard way to make a buck.. for sure...

[Iwillnevergiveup]

125. Very illuminating thread

I've sworn off going to any bars/restaurants with an otherwise good friend. He never fails to critique the server and/or food (usually in a negative vein) and is a poor tipper. Yes, he's a Republican although claims he voted for Barack.

Having done my share of waiting in my younger days, I've come to the conclusion that poor tippers and bar/restaurant patron bullies are just plain miserable people.

[matt819]

131. What he said.

For the arithmetically challenged, just tip 20%. Round down or round up if you like, but 20% is not unreasonable. In this economy, if you can afford to go out, you can afford the extra few bucks to increase your tip from 15% to 20%. It's not going to kill you. And even if food/drink/service aren't up to par, for whatever reason, try not to stiff the waiter. If he's done a lousy job, well, eventually he might be let go. But maybe he's having a bad night. Maybe his cat just died. Maybe he's thinking about how he should really see a doctor about his bum knee, but can't afford it and certainly can't afford the advice, i.e., get off your feet. Do you really feel better stiffing him? Does that make you feel good? Or, if the waiter's not at fault for your experience - maybe the creepy bouncer WillPitt pissed you off - does the waiter deserve your scorn?

So, take WillPitt's advice, and pass it along to your friends.

[southernyankeebelle]

133. Excellent article. My son is a cook in a restuarant and bust his butt. He

loves to cook. He works very hard and takes pride in his food. Once and a while people send him a tip. Sometimes people won't come in if they know he isn't there. He works for a chain restuarant. He was getting a 2 week paid vacation. Now they cut off one week vacation. He has to maintain 35 hrs a week to make sure he gets paid one week vacation. He pays over $400 a month in health insurance for he and his child.

[Lyric]

134. Rhythm and I always start from the assumption that a 20% tip is an absolute minimum.

Even for unsatisfactory service, we don't tip lower than that because we know that our server is being paid less than minimum wage, and the "tip" we give is part of her wage. We consider the first 20% to be "owed". After all, even the most incompetent grocery store cashier or gas station clerk still makes at least minimum wage.

If we get a bad server, then he or she gets 20% on the nose and not a penny more. If we get a really, really GOOD server, then he or she earns more than that. To be fair, we only go "out" to eat once or twice a year, because we understand that the prices on the menu are 20% higher than what the menu says, and we really can't afford it. But if we make the decision to go out, we make SURE that we can afford to tip properly.

Rhythm works in a pub exactly like the one you describe, Will--right down to the bouncer at the door keeping out the drunks, and the tiny little 140-degree kitchen. She's a cook. She usually works 3 pm until midnight, and more than once she's had to comfort a server who got stiffed by some cheap asshole. The latest offender was a guy who came there with his wife and kids (before 8 pm, kids are allowed). He let his kids (roughly 10 and 12) order whatever they wanted, and they INSISTED on ordering 50 of the hottest wings that the bar makes. These are REALLY hot--pureed habanero, Thai chili, and heirloom African fish peppers go into the sauce along with the typical cayenne Red Hot. The waitress warned them several times, politely, that the wings were probably too hot for the kids, but the guy insisted that the kids get what they wanted. Well, Rhythm made the order and they got their wings...and then proceeded to scream and cry because they were "too hot". Guess who didn't want to pay for the wings? And guess who stiffed his server on the tip because (get this)--"She should have known not to give those wings to children!"

When Rhythm came home and told me that story, I was just astounded at the level of selfishness and arrogant stupidity.

[Lyric]

136. One more thing--if your food is particularly good, please remember your cooks.

Often, the cooks who are responsible for that fantastic meal you just ate are making minimum wage or slightly above, and suffering greatly in a stiflingly-hot, wet, crowded kitchen. If your meal is truly outstanding, please consider sending back a personal compliment to the cook who made it. I promise, it'll make your cook's night. :)

[WillyT]

138. Damn Will...

I have a curiously similar career path to yours.

Former school teacher, bounced for a bar to make extra scratch while working part-time for the State of California.

Anywho... I tell people I meet at bars about the "Irene Rule". When my friends and I were about to turn 21, my best bud's mom Irene sat us all down at one point and told us, "If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to go out. Just buy a bottle and stay home so you don't embarrass yourselves."

And tipping was: 10% for shitty service, 15% for OK service, and 20% and above for outstanding service. You NEVER left a penny or a quarter.

Sage advice, and... when I actually became a bartender/waiter, I never forgot those words.

Thanks again Irene!

:shrug:

K & R !!!

:hi:

[lumberjack_jeff]

139. Something to consider.

The customer's frame of mind is established by the door experience.

Customer a) walks into a neighborhood bar, his expectations are set by the greeting of the friendly guy at the door. Maybe it's busy and maybe it's not... but it's not packed to the rooftops to the degree that they can't get any attention from the waitstaff. The vibe of the place is such that he feels that he's doing a good thing by patronizing them.

Customer b) Walks through a crowd of drunks into a large destination bar, only to be met by the intimidating, opinionated and verbose :) bouncer, whom he must convince of his social suitability to spend his money there. The psychology of the place is such that he's already had to demonstrate by getting past the velvet rope that he's a superior sort who is gracing the business with his reflected glory. He's not enjoying himself, he's working hard to project his social suitability.

I never want to feel like customer b and will spend all my time trying to convince the jackasses who dragged me there that we should go somewhere else - away from all these assholes.

I have no doubt that on quiet nights, you're essentially the maitre 'd. But on busy nights, when you have to become Mr T, it changes everything. I don't minimize the difficulty of managing things on nights like last night, I'm just saying that people shouldn't be real surprised that the assholes who look for that kind of vibe tip badly.

[Klukie]

140. As your bar patrons go.......so goes the nation

Such disregard for others...I see it everywhere. And a blatant lack of respect for jobs that are perfectly honorable.

[theaocp]

141. Just to make sure

my waitress felt appreciated amongst the people this past Friday night, I just called her over and slipped her a tip. She said thanks and went on her way. I hope she took it as my way of saying, "Thanks." Fucking always make those who are doing the jobs you would not DARE to do know that you appreciate the fact that these jobs ARE being done. That is all.

[earcandle]

151. Thanks! I've bartended and waited tables in my younger life. Nice when you all tip well. We

always leave 20% or more.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

155. K & R

:thumbsup:

[1monster]

162. So just how much is a standard tip these days? Since I know just how hard

bar and restaurant employees work, I always tip a minimum of 20 percent and hope that I am being fair.

[Dappleganger]

163. dh and I waited tables in college, we've always tipped well.

Even with poor service we tip a minimum of 15%, but make sure the manager knows if there were any significant problems.

[cry baby]

164. I always give respect, eye contact, and a smile to my servers...plus a good tip.

BTW, my son is in Boston going to BU. He is a good liberal boy with guts to stand up for what he believes. Hope you guys meet someday!

[oldlib]

168. $2.65 an hour

is absurd. These establishments should pay their employees a decent wage and not rely on the public to compensate the difference.

[SammyWinstonJack]

173. K&R

[mnhtnbb]

175. I have had fabulous and terrible service as a woman dining alone.

I ALWAYS leave at least 18%--that's when the service is average--and substantially more
when the service is great. I'm not afraid to speak up when I dine alone to request the service I expect.

But I do think it's interesting that I rarely experience bad service when dining with hubby
or in a group.

OTOH, I have to cajole hubby to up his tip to 20% when we have good service.

I never had to wait tables or work food service jobs--even in college--but I have a college son
who is scooping ice cream as a part time job. Boy, do I hear the stories from him.

I figure if I have the money to eat out, then I can afford the few extra dollars to leave a decent tip.

[customerserviceguy]

176. Thanks for pointing that out

I've always felt that if you don't have enough to tip, you don't have enough to go out. Even if I get lousy service (without being insulted, just ignored) I still leave 10%, although I might well not come back. At my favorite places, I'm well known as a good tipper, and my glass isn't empty for long.

I also make sure I say pleasant things to my servers, my favorite beer bar adjoins a Hooters, and I imagine the barmaids get a lot of unseemly remarks, especially since the management makes them wear garments that emphasize cleavage. When it's time to go, I always make it a special point to thank my server, who always knows there's a bit of cash under the credit card slip that already has a tip on it, too. As I joke here in NY, "The governor's not gonna see this."

[suffragette]

178. Sounds like you could use a movement to advocate for a livable wage

I agree with your points in general, but also think you need a movement there to change the underlying structure to be more equitable.

Looking around I found a general table of tipped wages:

http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm

Also found what looks like a movement in Vermont to try to change their situation there:
http://www.vtlivablewage.org/mission.html
http://www.vtlivablewage.org/victories.html

In a quick search, couldn't find similar for Massachusetts, but maybe you could contact the people in Vermont and get one started?

[donal dubh]

179. the breed of cats you are referring to...

...made a memorable appearance in The Grapes of Wrath... the truck-stop. 'Shitheels' I believe was the identifying label.

And remember the truckers left the waitress a healthy tip?

[tblue37]

180. I was a waitress for years. We former servers always tip well. nt

[flvegan]

182. Maybe if the Sox had won BOTH games...

I kid.

I also wholeheartedly agree. It's not tipping I believe in, it's overtipping. Stole that from "My Blue Heaven"

[Hubert Flottz]

183. Everything about the bar biz is hard work...

Even entertaining the crowd.

[Generic Other]

184. $2.65 an hour is slave wages!!

How do they survive at all?

[defendandprotect]

185. While I agree that the server shouldn't be short-changed ....

obviously we need for fight for higher wages for servers --

they are too dependent upon tips --

and too much of a restaurant/bars profits are based on the customer

pay for food and service, rather than the restaurant paying for their

own costs!

[klook]

191. I was a waiter in my youth

and I've had family members who worked in restaurants and bars. I make it a point to treat all those folks well, and get to know the names of the workers at the places I frequent. I almost always tip 20% or better -- somebody has to be egregiously bad to get less than that. Even at the joints where the "server" does nothing but bring a straw and some napkins, I make sure to leave a generous tip, because that person is probably a single mom just barely getting by.

Good post.

[Marcel]

194. K&R

I don't understand all this stuff anymore.

[EFerrari]

195. How does anyone pay $2.65 an hour any more?

Just standing upright costs that much. :wow:

[DevonRex]

196. Another thing is that on nights like you describe, the service may not be as quick BUT

that's because the wait staff is having a very difficult time getting through the crowd of drunks to bring your order to you. That means they're working even harder.

Just think of what life would be like for an office worker to have to endure drinks spilled on him/her, have his/her rear end fondled, get cussed at, tripped, etc., on his/her way to the copier, all while holding 4 pitchers on a tray above his/her head.

Getting those copies done would be nightmarishly difficult, wouldn't it?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

198. and ALWAYS over tip the breakfast waitress/waiter!.it's the cheatest meal of the day they make least

[Cleita]

203. I know what you are speaking of.

I did it for ten years (not bouncing, but bar tending, although sometimes bouncing became part of the job) as a second job and sometimes a first job when the first job evaporated. I worked in an affluent section of town with a university in the middle. The university people were okay, but the well-heeled heirs and frat boys were the absolute worst. These are the same jerks we are getting as all grown up in our politicians since the Republicans figured out how to compromise free and equal elections. Unfortunately, they will be what's left with money if they are allowed to succeed.

$2.65 an hour plus tips? Your establishment is really cheap. I got $3.75 an hour plus tips and that was back in the seventies.

[unapatriciated]

262. Three words 'Right to Work States'

ok it's four. Many states are Right to Work and employers can base the wage on tips allowing them to pay less than min wage. They also don't have to pay overtime if you work more than eight hours, only is you work more than 40 hours for the week.
Right to Work for Less
http://www.aflcio.org/issues/legislativealert/stateissues/work/

[bbgrunt]

209. ALL workers should be paid minimum wage. Using tips

is insulting and degrading the value of their services. In Australia (at least when I was there in the 1990's) servers were paid a basic wage across the board. Leaving tips was considered insulting.

Why do we allow the continual demeaning of some services by leaving their wages to the whims of particular customers?

When I closely questioned some US wait staff personnel about this practice and the alternative of a basic living wage, they unanimously preferred the tip model--arguing that on good days/weeks they could far surpass the minimum wage. I think they have been sold the same "American Dream" that many people suffer from--the idea that they could become rich in this stacked economic game that we play.

[blondeatlast]

213. The bad news is that there's a need for this thread. The good news is that the smug douchenozzles

who don't tip or tip poorly and have smug-ass attitudes towards service people are in a precious minority.

Speak it, Will. And a big :hug: to the good tippers and respectful customers out there.

[sellitman]

214. My wife always busts my stones I leave too much

Unless I'm totally mistreated and it's not managements fault I always over tip.

Good post though. Most people have no idea what it's like in a restaurant.

[Buenaventura]

215. don't forget the kitchen staff and the folks who ...

wash the dishes - leave something for them, too.

(livin' on a fixed - make that broken - income, but i won't eat out unless i can pay the WHOLE tab)

[orleans]

216. next time don't let those tightwads in!

"There is a certain breed of cat who goes out to an establishment and enjoys giving the people working there a hard time, who short them on the tab and the tip, and who take apparently endless pleasure out of making someone miserable...again, because they can."

i know a cousin of that cat breed. the one i've run across is the breed of editor who emails, writes or phones you up to "critique" either your work, the way it was submitted, or both and spends a good deal of time berating, bitching & lecturing--with no intention of buying/publishing your material. a couple years ago i had some asshole from studio city call me up and keep me on the phone for an hour blowing smoke, puffing himself up, and rambling on to such a degree i suspected the codeine was kicking in and he was in that initial "chatty" phase of the buzz. in the end, i wondered what the hell was the point to all of that--why not look at my material, decide it sucks and move on? why waste everyone's time?

well, you hit the nail on the head: apparently they take "endless pleasure out of making someone miserable...again, because they can."

[Sherman A1]

220. I always tip at least 15% and generally 20% or more, but

my tip depends completely upon my coffee cup. I know that the waitress cannot control the quality of the food (if it is screwed up, I will simply ask them to make it right), but they can control if my coffee cup is filled, which means that my table is getting their attention and service. I really don't ask much if anything beyond doing their job (yes, it's a crappy one) and being reasonably pleasant.

[Sherman A1]

221. Now the next question is, how many leave something for

hotel housekeeping when they travel?

[unapatriciated]

246. I do

Had to go back today to tip my dogs groomer for yesterday because they no longer let you do it on your card. I felt bad that I didn't have any cash on me at the time of service so tipped extra.

[AnneD]

289. I do...

I do. Sad to say I just learned of that several years ago.:blush: I thought they made more than they do.

[Sherman A1]

307. Agreed

I suspect that most folks don't do so. Therefore, no need to be embarrassed, yet it is important.

While I only travel once per year on a fall vacation. You would not believe the number of Thank You notes I get from Hotel Housekeeping for tipping them.

[WilliamPitt]

312. Always.

$5 a night minimum.

[bertman]

223. Rec. Excellent post.

[tpsbmam]

224. Amen! I once offered to wait for a friend who had a small restaurant and

was really short on wait staff one week. I frequently went to his restaurant -- just about best I've ever been to, hands down, and reasonably priced. Anyway, he laughed and hugged me, said thanks but no thanks. He opined that I'd dump a boiling hot scampi in the lap of the first person who was rude and pissed me off. He was probably close to right. :P I truly don't know how people who have to "serve" the public put up with all of the crap they get, including getting stiffed when they've worked their asses off. Like many here, it's rare that I don't tip very well. I can't afford to go out to eat much and always figure in not only the cost of the meal but a 20% tip (about as much as I can afford). It's incredibly rare for me to tip less -- the service has to be truly crappy, rude, etc. And when it's a quick bite and cup of coffee at a diner (which I also don't do often), I'm likely to tip 50% to 100%. I certainly understand those who can't afford to do so, but on those infrequent occasions that I eat at a diner, I can afford to tip $3 on a $3.24 tab. I watch those servers work their butts off for tiny tips based on the low cost of most of the checks.

[riverbendviewgal]

225. I worked as a food industry server...

and all of my immediate family. We all have the experience of knowing what it is like.

I tip generously when I see a hard working, caring server.

I also can assess when a server/bartender is doing his job or is a goof off.
then it is not generously.

I remember those times the wealthy were in my station and some were very, very tight with their money but demanded 5 star service. And there were the times when I could see the customer was not well off but was courteous and generous with tip.

There are the good, the bad and ugly in every place.

[blogslut]

227. People who serve the public are doing God's work

Show them respect and tip them properly. Your Karma depends on it.

[apex nerd]

229. The unvarnished truth

My sister worked very hard for many years waiting on people. After listening to her stories, I always tip something and I'm always mindful of how hard wait staff works. Even if I don't get great service, so long as I get service I tip something. At least a buck.

A waiter or waitress who doesn't get a tip, really doesn't get paid.

Gotta tip, folks.

This is a non-partisan issue. I know too many Democrats who won't tip, either.

When you tip wait staff, it is the most value you will get for your money.

Whenever I give a decent tip to wait staff, I feel better.

[TomClash]

230. Sorry but . . .

. . . I always tip well. Always. 20% of the total bill minimum to waiters and waitresses and usually more. A buck a drink bare minimum for bartenders and usually more. I worked as both a bartender and a waiter so I get what they do.

You can't be a Democrat and pay working people badly. You can't contribute to the class war against working people. You can't. Period.

[apex nerd]

231. One More Thing OP

Thanks for keeping those servers and bartenders safe.

And the patrons.

Protecting people is a high calling.

Keep that job as long as you can.

[TygrBright]

234. I swear to God, sometimes... the ONLY people who treat service staff decently...

...are people who've BEEN service staff. Maybe we should make a 6- to 12-month stretch toting plates or trays and being nice to customers and getting bupkus for it a mandatory experience for everyone sometime between age 20 and 25.

I have lost count of the number of times I've been out with people (like myself) who've been there, and we've thrown in a MINIMUM of 20%. More if we squatted long enough to reduce the number of times the table could reasonably turn over on a shift, or if we needed a lot of service.

And I have lost count of the number of times I've been out with people who've never worked the floor, and who agonize over whether 12% is "too much" or who use some minor issue like whether their hamburger was "medium" or "medium rare" or whether they thought they waited too long for their entree, to stiff or dime the server. (Needless to say, I call them on it or just make the difference up from my own wallet.)

I can count on ONE HAND the number of times I've had service that was clearly so bad-without-trying-to-be-better that I've deliberately tipped low. (Fifteen percent, for me, is low.)

And I tip more when:

I'm only having drinks or an appetizer during a meal shift when the table would otherwise yield a full meal tab.

At breakfast when everyone seems to think it's okay to cheapass the server because, well, it's breakfast, or there was no booze served, or the coffee refill was slow or whatthehell ever, I don't know, I just don't understand the whole tip-less-at-breakfast thing...

Someone at the table has a lot of special requests and/or requirements, or there are bad actors at the table, or someone gets unpleasantly drunk, or ANY time we make the service staff's job a little harder.

Sheeeeeeesh, people! There are few jobs that pay less and work your ass harder than serving food and drink in a busy establishment.

I can remember times when I worked a split shift-- clocking on for lunch at 10:30 am; humped my ass off with heavy trays until 3:00 pm, got to sit down briefly and grab a bite and clock back in at 4:30 pm for dinner, schlepped heavy trays and smiled nice and was cordial and barely managed a couple of bathroom breaks and cleaned up the last messy table at nearly 2:00 am and was ready to cry I was so tired and my feet hurt so much, and I STILL had a 40-minute commute to get home. It's HARD, PHYSICAL work. Your feet hurt and your back hurts and your arms hurt and you get headaches from the noise and smells, and you have to keep smiling and acting and, if you're lucky, you get a FEW nice customers who make you feel like it's worthwhile.

So thanks, Will, for posting this timely reminder. And a big uncouth gesture to the sleazebags who dimed or stiffed your colleagues!

appreciatively,
Bright

[deutsey]

235. For the first ten years of my life, my mom worked as a waitress in a diner

I know how hard she worked (to the point of exhaustion some times), so I always remember to tip well and show servers tons of respect.

[Scuba]

238. And Linda McMahon wants to LOWER the minimum wage. n/t

[unapatriciated]

240. Kudos for being a bouncer.

back in the day when I was a server, my bouncer always took care of me.
What a lot of people don't realize is servers usually work from their own bank. When someone shorts you on a check the house doesn't lose the server does and that could mean working the whole shift for zero $.
My bouncers were always there to help me collect.;-)

[WilliamPitt]

242. Yup

Spot on.

[lildreamer316]

247. Thank you, from two lifelong club employees.

Thank you for this.

[One Voice]

248. Thank you,

from me, for my daughter who has been a waitress & bartender that works very hard,
and has had to deal with horrible selfish people. It hurts my heart to see
what she has gone through.

[Initech]

249. $2.65 an hour? Those wages are fucking sickening!

No one should have to earn that. Especially in this horrific economy.

[DissedByBush]

250. Bouncers are dangerously unappreciated

Seriously, dangerous to the establishment.

They are what keeps the other workers safe, and the customers safe so without them customers don't come.

Wimpy bouncers can't control a crowd. The opposite end they are a liability since they can get the bar sued by being too rough.

[TorchTheWitch]

261. damn right!

That's one job I would never do if I was the right gender and size for it. I personally know bouncers that have been shot, stabbed, beaten... no way I'd go to work every day having to wonder if I was going to land in the hospital or get killed especially when the fucking clubs don't give healthcare to these guys and wouldn't even bother sending flowers but hire someone else to replace them while they're stuck having to pay their own medical bills.

[S Calawag]

254. I always treat them nice, don't want my burger bun used to wipe someone's

ventral crevice...so to speak.

:D

[badgerpup]

257. I swore a mighty oath...

...to never, ever treat the people waiting on me (in any capacity) like 'staff'.

I make an effort to be personally courteous and the tip (unless it's one of the self-serve places) is always at least 15%...more if the service has been good/exceptional.

Worked in the public sector and I don't care if 'the customer is always right'...there's NOTHING in my/their contract that includes 'punching bag' in the job description.

[Orrex]

260. This may have been mentioned elsewhere in the thread, but...

who in their right mind would act like a jerk to someone who is going to be handling their food somewhere out of the line of sight?

I've never understood it. I haven't worked as a waiter, but I worked in a number of take-out and delivery places where people would call in their orders and act like complete assholes. At a minimum, that gives the food-preparer 45 minutes to do as he or she pleases before the food arrives at the door.

Additionally, servers and delivery drivers absolutely remember who is a stiff and who is a good tipper, and the quality of future service is directly affected by the customer's current behavior.


I assert with 100% honesty that I have never tampered with food--to do so would be utterly criminal in my view. However, I'm not above playing mind games, either. The same is true of a great many servers and delivery drivers across this fine service-based nation of ours.


Terrific post, WillPitt--K&R!

[Bluzmann57]

263. I go to bars and restaurants

I tip and many years ago I used to fight people like you. Because I could. See, if a bouncer can get a front page rec on DU and a common guy who actually makes sure you get paid doesn't, then there is a problem. DU needs to look at the "home page policy" whatever that is. Certain people get home page exposure every day whether the post is worthy or not.
Hell I was at a bar earlier today so I could watch many football games at once. My servers are great ladies who I get along with and I tip them accordingly. But if I were to post this as an original, it would likely be in the lounge. Oh well.

[rambler_american]

264. Kicked and rec'd

:kick:
I had a moonlight gig as a bartender half a lifetime ago. I know about hustling for tips. I always tip 20% at a minimum and round UP to the nearest dollar unless the service is truly abominable in which case I leave 15%. Sucks to have to work for way less than minimum wage and not get any benefits and have to depend on customers for your livelihood. It's a lousy system.
:beer:

[JerseygirlCT]

265. We were there last night

(not in your bar, mind you) and I can definitely attest to the large number of very inebriated people around. The first game (which stupidly started at 4 to accommodate the TV machine) proceeded at the usual AL pace and was still tied at the bottom of the 9th, when we gave up. That was near 8:30. And the crowd for the game postponed from Friday night was already singing and weaving their way to Fenway.

I don't envy you your work last night. And if we had decided to attempt a bite somewhere nearby, a good tip would certainly have been forthcoming. As it was, we grabbed a couple of muffins at Panera and were happy to find the T and get the heck away from there!

[Phlem]

267. I go get a $3 cup of soup

at the cafe in our building and still tip $2 not a lot but just saying everything adds up. I believe in tipping well because it'll come back around. Tipping well also means treating people with respect.

And I do know the type, I mostly see them on the roads often triggering my PTSD. There's gonna be a lot them coming back from the wars and I would really stress to the assholes on the road, yeah you know who you are, to try restraint or one day it might not end well.

Take care bro

I'm always of your opinion concerning this issue and I can't wait to tip my next server.

PS. I not well to do by any means at all, but I always try to do the right thing by people.

-p

[spooky3]

268. When will we start paying full salaries to these staff?

Many European countries' systems pay well enough so that this practice of tipping isn't needed and jerks aren't allowed to stiff servers.

[azureblue]

269. Ask New Orleans waitstaff who tips good and who doesn't.

They'll tell you gays tip the best, Repubs the worst.

[postulater]

270. So did the Sox win?

[grantcart]

271. agreed

[Mosaic]

274. Capitalism is the cause of the suffering

Make restaurants and bars cooperatives owned by all the workers. It is time for this kind of progress.

[eyeofdelphi]

276. Amen

and thank you for the rant.
and for those people that don't tip well because of the food, well, your server doesn't cook, they fucking serve! if something is wrong it's most likely the cooks fault. and that happens all the time. trust me. especially if the whole kitchen crew is stoned out of their minds.
and just a side note, guys. don't hit on your waitress. don't ask if she has a boyfriend, don't tell her to smile more, don't ask for her number. she's at WORK. and now she feels like she has to put up with your inappropriate behavior or you're not going to tip her. it's humiliating and degrading. always made me feel like shit. and i never once got a great tip our of it. especially when i just gave up and stopped being nice about it. and if she really hates you, you can be sure your food is extra special.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

277. A quick note to anyone who works in bars, restaurants, etc.

The table of frat shits or sorority skanks you are fawning all over are not the only people in the restaurant and I guarantee this table of geezers will tip better if you were to acknowledge our presence.

I think the sub-minimum wage plus tips arrangement is horrendous, but people are not going to tip generously for horrendous service.

[pipi_k]

282. You're right..fair is fair...

One of my sisters was a waitress in a diner many years ago.

I would sometimes go visit her and have a coffee or whatever. While sitting at the counter I could watch her in action...the place was on a busy road and got lots of truck driver customers. She would fawn all over the (male) truck drivers, flirting with them, etc. She always made good tips from them.

Women customers?

HAH

She generally treated them like shit.


Now, I don't know if she just learned through experience that women don't tip as well as men do or what, but it would have been nice if she had even tried being pleasant to everybody, regardless of gender.

[MadMaddie]

278. I was a waitress many years ago

and I learned the very same lesson that you describe. I always tip above the suggested amount. Waitressing is a hard job and when people criticize waitresses and the job they are doing I often wonder have they ever worked a hard job in their life.

[Jakes Progress]

281. Round that tip up.

My son told me about the coolest thing ever. Stop worrying about whether you are tipping too much, he said. For just a dollar or so more you get a chance to make someone's day. From experience, he said that while the money is important, thebest thing about a good tip is that it makes the receiver feel good about the job they are doing. Not often you can really make someone's day for a buck.

[justabob]

283. thank you for this

It is a hard business, especially with the games/events etc. We just had TX/OU weekend down here(which we love, but is a nightmare from a service point of view).

The part about the beginning of the month and making rent is so true. It is stressful, and it is worse now than ever. (been in the business since the early 90's) Everyone is just barely hanging on. To get stiffed or 10%ed all day long, and still pay tipshare on SALES on top, just adds insult to injury.

Thank you again

[WeekendWarrior]

285. I always give a generous tip and treat the servers with

respect, but I only tip if I've been treated well. I know these people are working there asses off, but that's no excuse to be surly and I've had my share of surly servers in my time. But I've also had servers who were busy as hell, getting it from all fronts, yet still managed to be friendly, patient and kind. Those are the people who get generous tips. And some of them can do it, all of them can.

I don't expect anyone to tip me if I do a lousy job, so I don't think I should be expected to tip a server doing a lousy job.

I do appreciate your passionate plea, however, and will be sure to keep in mind how crazy their world is the next time I'm in a bar or restaurant.

By the way, I hope you're working on a novel. I saw flashes of brilliance in that post.

[greymattermom]

286. and the fat cats may not realize

that the cooks, who handle their food, don't have health insurance either. The other folks who need your tips are the musicians. Many of them don't even get the server minimum wage.

[Mojorabbit]

287. I used to be a nurse

and I know what it is like running my ass off all evening. I always tip really really well.

[snappyturtle]

288. Both my son and daughter work in the restaurant/bar industry.

Both have college educations and degrees. Both worked themselves with a little help through school by working in bars and/or restaurants. Both have managed too. HOW THEY DO WHAT THEY DO, DAY AFTER DAY, MONTH AFTER MONTH AND YEAR AFTER YEAR ASTOUNDS ME. They have great nights and awful nights/days...whatever. They each have a following! Customers come into the establishments where they're working to be served by them! (Woody's Eden Prairie and Oak City Bloomington,MN)..just a little plug! When they tell me of the grand responsibilities they have and then tell me what they earn and how they're sometimes treated, I could just cry. They have racked up almost thirty years between them now. Hard to believe that when they got out of school doing what they'd been doing was really the best they could get at the time and the years just go by. So I along with the OP greatly apppreciate good treatment for servers. In my kids'case, they both love people and love the pace. How long they can keep this up worries me though. Each both are engaged and they and their significant others give up a lot of prime time together so that the public can be well served.

What really sucks about this industry is that so many rely on tips, and they have to, to survive and yet now in the current financial climate have a very difficult time even renting an apartment because they can't verify income with their pay stubs. Sad.

edit: I haven't yet read all of the replies so if this has been covered, forgive me. I don't know whether customers know that what they leave servers is not totally kept by the server. Serviers 'tip out' the bartenders, bus boys, hostess, etc. from their tips!

[UndertheOcean]

291. 20% , and 15% for bad service , no more , no less. In my student days I would

do 15% (and 10% for bad service)

[Trajan]

296. Hey Will .... I want to thank you ....

For speaking so eloquently on our behalf, while still having to beat down the unwashed masses to make a small living ....

You speak for me in almost every instance, and I thank yee heartily ....

I love when my big sister, who does not come here, passes me a truthout link .... Im proud of both of yas ...

EDIT: 15-20% always - I lived with a waitress at age 16 .... LOL .... I left home early ....

[AllyCat]

297. I've been there. I always give 20% unless there was some real bad issue

And then I try to work it out with the server first before leaving a lower tip amount. But I always leave something that is not "offensive". Everyone can have a bad day now and again.

[Vehl]

298. I dont eat out often, but when I make it a point to tip well

Even if sometimes the service is bad, I try to tip the usual regardless, because sometimes the waiters are overworked and that might be the reason there are some slight delays/confusions with the order. Its my belief to subscribe to the positive explanation(that the waiter was overworked rather than lackluster)unless proven otherwise.


Thank you for the wonderful post, I never knew this side of the story till I read your informative article.
:hi:


K&R

[GoddessOfGuinness]

299. I remember my waitressing days...

That's why I generally tip 20%, 15% if the service isn't so hot, and 25% when it's exceptional.

[Norrin Radd]

300. I learned to tip well, from my first girlfriend who was a server.

There's one situation in which I'm confused as to what would be an appropriate tip: I often order and then swing by and pick up a pizza from the pizzeria a block away; they have a tip jar at the counter that I presume they split among everyone in the kitchen (they only do delivery or pick up, there is no dining room). So what is a fair tip percentage in this case?

[cherokeeprogressive]

304. Will I don't always agree with your posts, but on this one we're practically cousins.

I work as a Tour Guide for a zipline attraction in So. Cal. I love the work, because it's outside at 8500 feet above sea level, and I get to deal with different people every day. My work is basically play; meaning I get to do for free what my customers are paying to do for fun. My part is going to be clipping their trolleys to the line, sweet talking them into stepping off of the tower to zip down the next line, and catching them when they come from the previous tower to mine.

Let's be straight about something though; it doesn't pay well, minimum wage plus tips.

When you get to my zipline site, I'm going to greet you with a huge smile, treat you with respect, do my best to show you a good time, and keep you from getting hurt while doing something that's fairly dangerous. I'm going to take care of you for an hour and a half at least, and I'm going to engage you in every day conversation to get you over your fear of ziplining. What's most important though, is that I'm going to keep you safe. If you are approaching my tower after ziplining down a line and you're going to fast... I'm going to step in front of you and use my body to keep you from hitting the tower that the line is attached to. I have the scars to prove it. Since we opened in February, we've had over 5,000 customers. No one has ever been injured (not counting the Tour Guides, who get plowed at least once every two or three days, and have the scars to prove it).

Today we had 34 customers on two "tours". A "tour" consists of your being driven 20 miles from our office on paved roads, being picked up by us and driven another 2 miles on dirt roads in Pinzgauers, and zipping down a total of nine lines. It takes four Tour Guides to guide the zipliners down those nine ziplines. Today, four Tour Guides earned $12 dollars each in tips. That means on average, each of our 34 customers tipped us $1.41. Yesterday we had 51 customers, and the same four Tour Guides earned $5 dollars each in tips for the whole day. Yesterday our customers tipped the four of us a whopping $.40 each.

I'm lucky... I'm 49, semi-retired, and do this because I can't sit around and do nothing all day. I've fished and golfed myself into a stupor. I work with kids less than half my age though, and they have children, cars, utilities, rent, and every other expense you can think of to pay for. For them, I feel badly. I sometimes forego my own tips so that they can have enough to buy a tank of gas after 3 tours during an 11 hour day.

What would you tip your server when your check was $95 after a good meal? I'd leave at least $20, more if the service was good. Even if the service and meal were EXCELLENT, I'd only see my server a couple of times for a total of a few minutes. A zipline tour costs $95 per person, and I'm with my customers for over an hour and a half, showing them a good time.

For that, today I earned $1.41 in tips from each of my customers, yesterday only $.40.

[AnneD]

328. Wow....

I am so sorry to hear that. Yet another group of folks I didn't realize that relies on tips (she makes a mental note). What a sweetie you are to help your less fortunate workers.:hug: Why is it that the "Undercover Boss" show doesn't go where they are really needed. Or at least some of these Congressmen that vote against raising the minimum wage or creating the exceptions.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

305. I know I'm late to this discussion but here is the deal. If I can't afford to tip 20%

I can't afford to go out to dinner!

My wife and I finally went out to a decent (Not extravagant) dinner tonight. We were celebrating our respective birthdays and my retirement, the proceeds of which allowed us to go out for a decent dinner after several years of abject destitution where we couldn't go anywhere! It was fabulous and still relatively expensive and normally beyond our means except we could afford it this time. It was, after all, a celebration of our birthday's and my retirement. If we couldn't have left the servers at least 20%, we would have found a less expensive venue to celebrate in. You simply don't treat people who serve your food badly. Or, if you do, you do so at your own risk!

My wife is 15% person and I am a 20% person. I was proud that she paid 20% for our meal. We had a long conversation at dinner about those assholes with the Gold cards who leave a quarter on the table. I'm proud to say that those of us with Platinum cards leave a decent tip!

Again, If I can't leave at least 20%, I can't afford to eat out!

Which is O.K. because I cook pretty well, but it sure feels good to have someone else do it after all these years.

Oh, by the way, this Sunday was the first time I have seen a restaurant with a waiting line since the dot com boom. Sign of things to come?

[AnneD]

330. Sunday Morning ....

is always the busiest, that and Saturday night. Breakfast is the cheapest so Sunday morning is the the one time most can afford (cheap tips) and Saturday night is date night (much better tips-impress the girls). And believe me ladies-pay attention to the way they treat the wait staff. It really does have a direct bearing on how they will treat you.

Older folks don't tip much because they were brought up in a different era, when a dollar was real money-you might be there one day too. Young kids just don't know better because they are still kids. Single Moms are tired and their money is stretched thin, your reward will be good Karma. And shame on anyone else that stiffs you-they have no excuse.

You really observe human nature. My best elderly customers...the gentleman that was waiting for his wife of many years. He was seated but the minute he saw her at the door, he always stood up until I seated her at the table. That was true class. I loved waiting on them. It was like another era. I hated waiting on the after bar rush-I am not into drunks-but they paid well-far better than the Sunday morning church going crowd-sad to say. I guess they missed the part about Christ having a generous spirit and just remember the suffering servant part.

[intaglio]

306. HOW MUCH???!!!

Excuse the foul language but -

Bugger me, when the fuck is the U.S going to shift it's stinking corporate arse move out of the 19th Century, employment law - wise???

Pre-Dickens employment law too.

I mean $2.65 per hour?? In English that's, like, £1.50 and anyone who offered that to servers in Europe would be lynched ... no, eviscerated in the old style (tree, navel, nail now walk in circles whilst we make this nice wicker cage for you) but because the corporate owned places will be offering the same or worse the family places have to do the same.

This is why Europeans tend to be bad tippers, we sort of assume that servers are paid a minimum, living wage and tips are extra, for good service. Even then bar staff and waiting staff would be entitled to "socialist" benefits to ensure they had a roof over their head and enough for their kids - and don't get me started on healthcare!

Why the fuck the US has not had a bloody Socialist revolution, I do not know.

[The Doctor.]

308. Been there. Every human being should wait tables, bartend, or cook before having any other career.

The lesson is about the greatness of humility. Servers often have far more character, depth, and maturity than those they serve... and they never make mention of it.

Respect those that put themselves at your service. They do a greater honor than so many deserve.

[proteus_lives]

309. Good service, good tip. Shitty service, shitty tip. Abysmal service, no tip.

Always be nice and respectful and expect it back.

[proteus_lives]

310. Edit-dupe.

[laundry_queen]

314. Two Thumbs Up

As a teen I worked in a restaurant as a busgirl and occasional waitress. Usually it was the largest tables and the most difficult customers who were the worst tippers. There are nice people out there - one time I was the only one who showed up for work the same weekend there was a local ball tournament and I had to do the whole restaurant myself. I was 14. Obviously people had to wait a bit longer than usual for their orders but most felt so sorry for me, so I did very well in tips that day. So while their service wasn't that good, they could see the pickle I was in (most asked, 'are you the only one here???' when I said yes, the other waitresses didn't show up, they felt really bad for me and told me I was doing really good considering the circumstances. There ARE nice, understanding people out there) and were very generous.

Right now I'm a single mom to 4 kids, going to school full time. Money is tight and I rarely go out but when I do, I'm a 20% 'er. Luckily where I live they still have to pay wait staff minimum wage and the minimum wage here is much higher than in the U.S. so hopefully none are starving, but I like to tip generously anyhow. It's a shit job.

[backscatter712]

317. I do my damndest to give a decent tip when I go out.

I usually estimate rather than calculate fully when I figure out tips, but I shoot for 20%.

And I do understand that sometimes things happen - chaos in the kitchen, or other customers are being jerks, or one person doesn't show up for work and forces the other wait staff to work a person short. So it takes monumentally huge fuckups by wait staff before I'd consider lowering the tip.

[heliarc]

320. It rained in Los Angeles Today... and

I swear that everyone but the people driving in Mercedes Benzs had the decency to turn their lights on. It just figures that the assholes who drive a brand spanking new Mercedes won't turn on their lights and respect the law and their fellow drivers.

[JuniperLea]

322. I've cut way back on my entertainment spending, but not tipping...

And I bring cash so I know how much money I've spent, and tipped.

I wonder sometimes if it makes more sense to go to establishments more, to keep them open, and tip less... knowing that at least the wait staff will have a job. I've watched a lot of restaurants close in the past year.

[byronius]

325. Been there, done that, always overtip. Always.

And I mercilessly humiliate anyone with me who doesn't.

I remember when Reagan started taxing assumed tips. I remember being covered in grease and sweat, and I especially remember the assholes in suits with gold cards.

[TroglodyteScholar]

327. Kick for the servers

:kick:

[TK421]

329. I ALWAYS over-tip at the local bar here....these people work hard

and I'm not sure I could do their jobs. They even told me I'm their favorite-best bar patron ( I seldom order food there, though it is very good stuff ).

I think some people are tempted to leave shit tips when they get shitty service or they have a server-bartender with an attitude...this has happened to me several times, and I tipped accordingly.

Friday happy-hour, $2.00 domestic bottles at this place, and I tip $1.00 on each drink, I like these people that much. I still tip $1.00 when they are $4.00 every other day, though ( I can't afford more than that )

[defendandprotect]

334. ... That's true ... but why shouldn't employers/restraurants PAY for their help?

Presumably little or no unionization among wait staff --

But certainly the customer shouldn't be expected to pay for restaurant's expenses --

do you think they should?

[TK421]

335. Not necessarily, no.....and I never did understand why the hourly wage

was so low ( tips are never a guaranteed thing )

I do what I can, though

[defendandprotect]

336. We all do -- tips are now generally 20% ... HOWEVER, wait staff should be

an expense for the restaurant -- not the customer!

[TK421]

338. I do agree with you on this...but I feel that the wait staff should get an

extra "something" for their efforts...

I've never waited tables, but I did bus tables when I was in high school and I saw back then how much these waitresses bust their asses...almost felt like there were times when I should have lended a hand

but you can't do that as a lowly bus-boy ;-)

Last I checked, the hourly rate was $4.00 ( or something close to it ) for a bartender...I don't know if it is different for a waiter-waitress, and it is not enough

[defendandprotect]

341. That was the original concept of a "tip" -- for extra special service ....

Owners, however, have used the "gratuity" to pass their own costs onto customers.

All of our hourly rates are ridiculous -- including the minimum wage!!

Minimum wage should be $25 bucks at this point!!

:)

[TK421]

342. I am in total agreement with you on this one...and it does seem that

owners are looking to cover their asses financially ( I don't know why...unless you work for a large chain that actually offers bennies, and I personally don't know any that do that ). You're minimum wage estimate seems to be quite fair, in my opinion...and that is only because I know how these people in this particular section of the service industry can get fucked over.

Hence, my original response to this OP...I take it you are a server? You said "all of our hourly rates" so I can only assume you are...I always try to be generous, but it is getting increasingly difficult to do so during these times :( What I do is try to support the local businesses in this town as much as I possibly can, but some businesses around here...oh, that is a looooong story, but lets just say they would much rather cater to hopefuls from the more affluent areas surrounding this town ( and this is a very blue-collar town to begin with ). What to do? If it were up to me, your hourly rate would be much higher, but then again if lots of things were up to me then lots of things would be different.

[defendandprotect]

343. Think what happened was the "3 martini lunch" put the TIP on the corporations bill.....

so it was immaterial to the guy "buying" lunch --

and the corporations could deduct it as a business expense.

Restaurant owners got used to that idea -- and they don't want to pick up the

bill now -- it would have to be done gradually because wait staff salaries are

embarrassingly low!

No -- I'm not wait staff -- but I was speaking of the nation's wages -- all are

stagnant -- and minimum wage has to be converted to a LIVING wage!!


:)

[TK421]

346. lol, so I did guess I might be wrong about that....oh well, I find businesses do that

sort of thing mainly when they first open up and want to promote themselves ( I will NOT use the word "product"...I fucking HATE that word ) Businesses that are established, however, as this one is ( and they have been here since 2005 and done well ) offer several specials on their menu, because they realize just where it is they are located, and they do their best to cooperate with the needs of the locals here.

We don't get a hell of a lot of business from Center City Philadelphia...lets put it that way :) we sure wish we did, though, and if we did guaranteed this town would be on an entirely different level, both financially and reputation-wise. This town is sinking...fast

To give you a general idea what this place used to mean to SE P.A here is a link..if you are interested in reading about it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol,_Pennsylvania

[DesertDiamond]

331. MAJOR thanks from a former waitress. I worked in a busy coffee shop and people tipped small anyway

no matter how hard we worked, because of course most people tip by percentage. But rush hour was when I got the least tips, because so many people believed they should be served as though they were the only customer in the shop, and that just wasn't going to work when the place was packed. And you're right, William, it's the affluent ones who do this, not the struggling ones. Because of this experience, I tip NO MATTER WHAT. Especially if it's busy. And I tip 20%, or more if it's a very small tab, unless I really just don't have more than the 20%. As you say, William, people are getting minimum wage and their survival depends on our tips. Thanks again. :-)

[defendandprotect]

337. What about restaurants increasing hourly wage for wait staff .... ???

I'm sure this has to be a subject discussed by wait staff -- ???

Any unionization on the horizon?

[TK421]

340. Funny thing is, percentage never comes to mind no matter what it is I order

As I stated up thread, I always tip more than the expected amount ( the example given was a $2 beer, and I would give $1 towards that ) I look at the drink-meal and service, I'm being honest here because I know the job is not an easy one. I've left tips that made the bartender do a double-take and a few times they even asked me if that was really what I wanted to leave.

I know the hourly rate is low, and tips are very important to the server-bartender whoever it may be

[defendandprotect]

333. Any unionization among waiters/waitresses? Salaries have to go up ....

This is like schools being dependent upon property taxes in wealthy neighborhoods going up!

Employers have to improve the salaries --

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

339. Back in the early 2000s

I was working as a waitress at a popular restaurant (one of a chain of two) in Raleigh, NC. The place was in an affluent area of Raleigh and we'd get a lot of customers. That was my second job so I could pay for a trip I wanted to take.

I remember fondly the griping from my colleagues when work schedules were announced and people would have the (mis)fortune of working Sunday lunches. Since I had never worked in a restaurant before, I thought that the reason for the complaints was due to having to be at work on a Sunday morning. Ah ah ah... I was wrong!

The problem was that the Sunday lunch crowd was mostly made up of church goers and generally they tipped horribly. Indeed, I had a 2 cent tip because the total for that party of 3 was $66.66 and they freaked out (it was a middle aged couple with their son), so they left 2 cents as a tip (this was a credit card transaction) to make it $66.69 - they were also idiots because "666" was still there - LOL).

Then I had a table that left me a Chick Tract (which was my first exposure to the world of Jack Chick). I never got tipped well on Sundays ... ever. Of course, since I had a 9-to-5 job, I could pretty much just work on the weekends.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

344. I was a server in my early 20's. I'd NEVER do that again.

I always treat them extra well (even though I always treated them well even beforehand, I go the extra mile now).

It would be the last job I took if I ever got desperate.