the ideologically pure are always disappointed in politics.

[cleveramerican]

My old granny used to say "never trust anyone who is certain they are right about everything"
this goes for the angry right-wing tea partier
and for the ,smarter than you, know it all progressives.

This is the thing that absolutely pisses me off when moderates like me get hammered by both sides for not being pure enough.

politics is the art of the deal.
it just is.
governing is about priorities
priorities differ even from those very close to you


no body ever agrees with me 100% and I don't expect it.

why do the most certain about everything think I should agree with them 100%?

why isn't 85% agreement enough?

[Cassandra]

1. That goes for the "ideologically pure"...

centrists, as well.

[Gman]

7. That's not possible

they wouldn't be moderate if they were pure.

[asthmaticeog]

9. You might consider thinking that through further. nt

[cleveramerican]

15. pure deal makers, pushing that stone up that hill, 1" at a time.

what can be done is all that can concerns me.

what I wish could be done is daydreaming

[ixion]

2. if 85% of lemmings want ALL lemmings to run over the cliff

that doesn't mean the 15% have to join in.

"Ideologically pure" is a jingoistic, derogatory reference to someone who is not a moral relativist. That is: Someone who's ethics remain unchanged despite a change in the political landscape.

The Teabaggers are no where near being "ideologically pure", in any case. They are, in fact, a walkin', talkin' suss pool of hypocrisy.

[cleveramerican]

4. no other opinions welcome

is the thing that binds the tea party and the pissed off progressives inevitably together.

for both it is no longer about the nation, it is about themselves.

[gulliver]

23. Are you sure lemmings run over cliffs?

http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/lemmings.asp

[Cirque du So-What]

3. I consider myself pretty far left

Hell, I'd even join the socialists if they had anything resembling a coherent structure. I'm enough of a realist, however, to recognize that nothing short of another economic disaster on the scale of the Great Depression will engender a viable socialist movement. Therefore, I am a Democrat, and I will work for change from within that party. Tilting at windmills is a fool's errand, IMO, and I will not waste my time or energy trying to field a 3rd-party candidate that will only siphon votes from the Democratic candidate.

I will always vote for the Democratic candidate, but I will also endeavor to get the best Democratic candidate out of the primaries beforehand. By the time of the general election, it is well past time to put aside childish notions of 'punishing' the Democratic leadership by staying home on election day or by voting for some Quixotic 3rd-party candidate. This only punishes the people, as the Democratic party leadership against whom you 'tilt' will live to see another election cycle - regardless of whether or not their candidate gets elected.

[MineralMan]

16. +1

I'm with you. Thanks for speaking out.

[glowing]

5. For me, its the idea that at the end of the day, the wittled down policies and back door deals

means that real tangible people are going to get hurt or are going to be helped. I guess that would make me a terrible politician. I care too much about the people who will lose out.. like the 99rs who are now likely on the streets. I care about the poverty level and how that effects a child going to bed hungry. I care that most people who do right get screwed continuously by those with the money who can buy their influence. I care that the last administration is walking around free as a bird.. actually collecting royalty speaking fees; but have broken national and international laws. I care that people are losing their homes and the banks cannot even prove they own the homes. I care that wars continue on for no reason other than to loot the treasury and bully the world. I care that children are losing more and more resources for a future when I know they are the future.

So, when people want to call me a f'ing retard because I have a heart, I say F- YOU and get pissed and more determined to do more. Because obviously, those people don't care about the things I listed above.. They are too into the "playing politics" to realize that there are real people on the other side... We really should have Universal Healthcare... the public option was a real compromise. AND now we have the "fix", no one will talk about the plan other than to say, "well its a bit better". No politician will touch this issue for another 20yrs.. and then over half the us population or more will be uninsured and still dying for lack of access to a doctor.

[WinkyDink]

6. "85%" of closed schools? Of more surveillance? Wars? No Net Neutrality? No HC public option?

[Gman]

8. Well stated. K&R (if it can get above 0)

[xchrom]

10. So that's why our infrastructure is falling apart,

Our military cluster fucked all over the globe,
Nothing reasonable done about vote theft,
Incapable of extending equality to all,
Etc?

You guys can't govern.

Thanks, I didn't realize that.

[asthmaticeog]

11. "Ideologically Pure" is, I find, often a straw-liberal,

constructed to discursively attack the person merely expressing a policy disagreement. OR, it's a juvenile "agree with me or I'll call you a name" game, see also "inflexible." Sometimes it's real of course, but it's fake often enough that I've learned to view the person hurling the epithet with suspicion. Especially on D.U., and especially when you tie it up with an insult like "know-it-all progressives." "Know-it-alls" is what Nixonites called liberal Democrats in the 1960s and '70s, you know. That and "eggheads."

Not a slam on your O.P. as a whole, mind you, just my observations about the specific term you used. I agree 100% with your grandmother.

[canoeist52]

12. So.. politics is "the art of the deal" otherwise known as a game.

Ideology doesn't matter. Even bargainers draw a line in the sand.

[kdmorris]

13. "Smarter than you, Know it all Progressives"

I consider myself a progressive. And I am certain that I'm necessarily right about everything. And being lumped in with Tea Party nutjobs... well, that's pretty insulting, don't you think?

As a progressive, I can't even have a discussion without someone "hammering" me about who you are voting for. (Next time someone tells me that I'm not pure enough because the only way to be pure is to vote for a Democrat, even if someone else is a better means to an end, I'm going to scream. Especially because I never said I wasn't voting for the Democrat)

Posts like this, with all the victimhood firmly attached, are just as unhelpful as "hammering" anyone about their beliefs. I sure as hell don't think everyone has to agree with me 100%. But getting belittled because of what you don't agree with... that doesn't just happen to "moderates like you" (which is obvious in your post, where you belittle everyone who isn't a "moderate like you".

[cleveramerican]

14. nutjobs is prety insulting too

you freely admit you think you are right about everything
Just like the tea party folks.

You prove my point quite nicely thanx

no victim here, not deluded enough to ever leave humility behind.

[kdmorris]

21. No, I don't admit that I'm right about everything. I made a TYPO.

"necessarily right about everything" should have been "not necessarily" (most people would realize that "necessarily right about everything" actually makes no grammatical sense). I would go back and edit it, but I'm inclined to let it stand, so that they whole thread makes sense.

You actually proved your own point, with the insults against progressives in your OP. Yes, I do think that tea baggers are mostly insane. Unless you are saying that you are a tea bagger, then that is not insulting to you at all.

The point that I was trying to make is that you claim that being a moderate is so hard and everyone "hammers" you. You are not the only one that gets hammered. It's not all that much fun to be a progressive and have people like you call me "smarter than you, know it all", either. If you cannot see where that is insulting, then I can't really help you understand it.

"not deluded enough to ever leave humility behind"... I assume that's aimed at me. Not sure where you get that, but that's pretty fucking insulting, too.

[cleveramerican]

22. thank you for the clarification

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[myrna minx]

18. Yay! More unity building.

This is just what we need. :woohoo:

[DailyGrind51]

19. The "ideologically pure" cannot get elected nationally!

[jgraz]

20. Yes, I'm disappointed your strategy is about to lose us the House.

Or is being against a Speaker Boehner too ideologically pure for you?