I think the Bin Laden tapes are fake.

[peopleb4money]

I just read today's New York Times article on some new tapes that surfaced, and he supposedly condemned the West for not doing enough to reverse climate change and condemned the Arab nations for not doing enough to relieve Palestinians of the flooding. He's also congratulated a high profile NASA scientist for his work in exposing climate change and commended Noam Chomsky and Carter for their condemnation of Israeli apatheid against Palestine.

I personally think this shit is being made up. I think its someone like the CIA paying a voice actor to say this stuff to defame their academic enemies on the left. Its just bait for Right wing radio hosts in my opinion. All Glen Beck or Rush has to do is bite and start ranting against Chomsky, Carter, and Al Gore for holding the same stances as Osama Bin Laden. I'm suspicious, because he never talked about any of this stuff in any of his videos a decade ago. I think he's dead, and someone's taking advantage of this for political purposes. You can buy a video recording device for less than 100 dollars nowadays, and I find it surprising that all of his footage has been audio for nearly a decade. I think its a hoax.

Yah, he may have been involved in agriculture in Sudan, but I don't see how that relates to global warming. i think this is just a sophisticated smear campaign toward leftist opposition. If I don't see an actual video of him anytime soon, I can only assume he's dead and that these are fakes.

These are, of course, just my opinions, but I think my strong suspicion is justified.

[zappaman]

1. I think

trained monkeys brought down the twin towers.
This is, of course, just my opinion, but I think my strong suspicion is justified.

[Canuckistanian]

2. A "bin Laden tape" is easy to fake

Just find an Arab speaker with the same voice as bin Laden, train him to speak in a Saudi accent, use inferior recording equipment and voila! Instant bin Laden tape.

And of course, there are no pesky problems with "traceability", since it came out out of a cloud of "national security" sources.

As far as propaganda goes, it's cheap.

[FarLeftRage]

3. I just heard a blurb of tonight's news...

nbc, I think said that bin laden the latest planned terror attacks with the help of the cia...

Faux pas or not???

[MrScorpio]

4. Well, since everything is a conspiracy, then I guess that anything is possible nt

[RandomThoughts]

5. Of coarse they are.

Lots of stuff on TV, and probably here is faked. Much of the 'news' reports are probably manufactured.

Or the world is going down the shitter fast, and if that was true, someone would have corrected things.

The sheer number of correlations can only be explained by CGI or alterations of information dispersal. (or supernatural)


Do you really believe Christine O'Donnel ran for office three times, and a close primary, and only now the Meuer tapes are showing up.

And when people like David Shuster, or Sanchez get fired, are you really sure they said what they are accused of saying? Have you seen them on TV again since then? How would you know.

Maybe they were promoting him to some other sector, and figured they would use him leaving with a bonus power flex on that topic, by creating that. Maybe he did say it. But it took a rally to fire Imus, and there are other people that have said things against religions like Islam and Christianity that are not fired.

So something is messed up.

Anyone heard from Lou Dobbs lately?

[whyverne]

6. But then again, firing up the right wing and getting them to

over react is kinda what he likes to do.

[stray cat]

7. One more opinion in the world

[spanone]

8. if true, we'll never know. if false, we'll never know.

[RainDog]

9. I thought it was a joke when I heard about it

bin laden tapes have been faked for years. ABC news online has been a conduit for many of them.

the only thing the right wing has to offer in this nation is fear.

I also think the European terrorist scare was an attempt to create fear in people there who are protesting neoliberal policies.

people in positions of power are nasty. c.f. dick cheney.

[jobycom]

10. Plenty of reasons not to use a video recorder.

It can give away hints to wear he is and what he looks like now, and even when he did use a video recorder people claimed the tapes were fake. What's the advantage? And if the CIA or whomever was faking audio tapes, why not just fake video tapes?

Even if they are fake, there'd be more reason for Al-Qaida or some such group to fake them than the CIA.

As to him being dead, maybe, but I'm not convinced. First, if we knew he were dead, whomever was president would parade around in the biggest celebration since VE Day. Our guys over there would broadcast it to demoralize Al-Qaeda. And someone on their side who knew would leak it to our people, in hopes of a reward. Plus, our intelligence would pick up the changes in the power structure. So it's possible, but I don't think it's a slam dunk. He's hiding from us, he's hiding from them, he's probably hiding from his own people with the size of the reward on his head.

Then again, we are still debating whether Billy the Kid and Jesse James lived into modern times, and there are people who still think Lee Harvey Oswald is innocent. Pet theories die hard, or not at all. I once had a friend who was a descendant of one of the Lincoln conspirators (Surrat), and when it came up once in a history class she got upset, told us we were too willing to believe the official story, and pouted the rest of the class. So if Bin Laden pulls off a major attack on our soil and is videotaped riding a bomb like Slim Pickens, there would still be people claiming it was faked. We'll never know.

[peopleb4money]

20. Yah, it could give away his position if the video was recorded in front of a landmark, but

...all they would have to do is record him in front of a wall with a covering over it.

The main reason I suspect CIA insiders or the right wing media is because of the content. In the most recent tape, all he talked about was how big of an issue climate change was. Its odd that he's, all of a sudden, an environmentalist.The environmentalist message didn't really come through in the past. Reversing climate change wasn't ever a main motive or goal of Al Qaeda as far as I'm aware of.

I'm not saying that the people who made the video know he's dead either. I'm just saying that they're using the ignorance of his being dead or alive to their advantage.

[jobycom]

28. We've used wall coverings before to get hints to where he is.

So even that minor a hint helps us. Plus, maybe he wants people to be unsure.

As for the environmentalism, two points. One, he's a politician (even if he's a terrorist), and sounding compassonate over the recent natural disasters makes him more popular. Two, it lets him blame the US for the natural disasters hitting the Muslim world right now, so it fits his agenda. A third reason could bt that he knows American politics well enough to know that his words will divide us further. Allying with liberals will make us less popular, and cause more partisan fighting.

Even if he's dead, some terrorist group could still be behind it for those reasons.

Or going really James Bond, maybe there are coded commands in the tape, whoever put it out.

In the months before 9-11 there were constant travel adviseries and warnings. At one point the US military pulled all its ships out of Middle Eastern ports, fearing another Cole incident. I think there was even a message from Bin Laden or someone like that condemning us. Makes me think something else could be in the works.

Then again, maybe someone just wants us to think so.

[Drale]

11. of course they are fake

Bin Laden has been dead for years.

[malaise]

12. Duh

He's been dead for years

[starroute]

13. There are a bunch of anti-Muslim hobbyists who "find" these things

Check out the group called SITE which claims to have discovered this latest tape on a jihadist website. Its founder, Rita Katz, is an Iraqi-born Israeli who's tied in with the same circles that brought you the phony "ground zero mosque" controversy and the whole "Muslims are going to take over your Kindergarten" line of paranoia.

Almost all these tapes come from similar sources. A few years ago, a woman named Laura Mansfield was at the center of it. Now it seems to be mostly SITE. And over the last few years, their version of Osama bin Laden has spoken less and less like an actual Islamic extremist and more and more like a Western liberal.

As for who's producing these things, it's never been clear. The CIA and Mossad are both obvious suspects -- but to some extent the tapes seem more designed to further a domestic right-wing agenda. So that part is still murky -- but the propagandistic nature of the operation is crystal clear.

[Ghost Dog]

17. Yes indeed.

These are the known IPs of origin.

[peopleb4money]

21. ...interesting to know

I don't think the press is doing their job when they aren't reporting this important information to the public.

[DeltaLitProf]

22. That also jibes with them being so stupid

Right-wing fanatics tend not to understand subtlety. They give themselves away by being hamhanded. That's what's going on here. Why in the world would a radical wahabbist care the first thing about the environment or global warming? That subject just doesn't register with them. But of course a Right-wing ignoramus would think himself very clever for putting those words in Obama's mouth.

[Boojatta]

14. "I think it's someone like the CIA paying a voice actor to say this stuff"

Does the CIA have that kind of money? Anybody who is hiring a voice actor obviously has deep pockets. Why not start your research with the Forbes list of the 400 Richest Americans?

[peopleb4money]

18. I wouldn't doubt that

I didn't mean that I think, without question, that it is the CIA. I just know there's been a liaison between insiders in the oil industry and the CIA in the past (Bush Sr. Being an obvious example), so I find it suspect. It could be anyone really. I just have a strong feeling that its a hoax and that there's an anti-left, political motive behind it. Whoever it actually would be is a mystery, and its all, ultimately, speculation.

[Prometheus Bound]

26. If they can afford $30,000 drones they can afford a few hundred bucks for voice morphing software.

[TexasObserver]

15. Yeah, they're fake, and they've been fake for years.

We can judge them by their content. When he allegedly mouths positions that are the same as most Democrats, you know it's a fake. They've been pulling this for years now, always creating bogus "Osama" tapes when they want to impact US elections.

[KillCapitalism]

16. If you look closely at the tapes, he never appears to age.

He pretty much seems to look the same as he did right after the 9/11 attacks. Someone constantly on the run & living in caves can't stay looking young for too long.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

19. In his next tape, Bin Laden condemns......

......Joe Girardi for his mismanagement of the Yankees pitching staff and also declares jihad on Five Guys for those fries being so damn tasty.

[Festivito]

23. What? Why? You'd think they'd divert our attention while stealing our money or something!11

... Hmmm. ... Oh crap.

[howard112211]

24. Who is making them is the obvious question.

[eridani]

25. No paid actors are necessary. Study up on voice morphing

Also, in previous videos, all contemporary references are in "still" parts of the video.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_oet&address=358x3185

The above is an extensive list of clips and references from the Research Forum on the subject.

[leveymg]

27. CIA disbanded the UBL Unit four years ago. I don't think it's CIA making the tapes.

They appear to come from several sources. Perhaps, foreign intel agencies, but mostly AQ sympathizers.

Dick Cheney may have tried out his Radio Shack voice synthesizer and Arabic translator once or twice, but I think he's been long since dead too.

:evilgrin: B-) :hide: :patriot: :yoiks:

[Blue Owl]

29. Who is Osama bin Laden?

I think he's the fabricated poster child for terrorism, and the convenient excuse to frighten Americans into throwing billions and trillions of dollars into the war machine.