Another neighbor thinks we should have nuked Iraq! How I dealt with him and WON

[magellan]

This relates to my post last week about the neighbor who stated we should have dropped an H-bomb on Iraq. That thread is here, but it's of no more significance to the new tale than that:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=878749

Today another neighbor asked me to give him a lift to a few stores. No problem, we're driving along talking about the war and vets and stuff (he's a Vietnam vet), and I said, "Somebody else told me he thinks we should have nuked Iraq." This neighbor enthusiastically replied, "Yeah, we should have!"

LOL, bad move. I immediately slow the car down and tell him he'd better think about it quick or he's going straight back home. He's already apologizing, but I'm thinking it's likely only because he wants to get to the shops. So I asked him, "Are you a Christian?"

Yes, of course he is. He's wearing a big cross around his neck.

"Then explain it to me," I said. "How is nuking Iraq the Christian thing to do?"

Now he's also very embarrassed and almost kneeling in the footwell in penitence.

"You're right," he says. "If we did that we'd deserve it to happen to us. I wouldn't want that to happen to my kids and grandkids. There are innocent people and children over there...."

He then admitted to me that he'd only said it because it was the "popular sentiment". Hopefully he'll stand up for what's right next time instead of spouting off to look good.

It's amazing what happens when you get the oil out and grease the cogs in people's heads.

[Poiuyt]

1. Popular sentiment?

God, I hope not.

I've always liked the Christian approach to arguing about the war. If people behaved the way Jesus did (believers and non-believers alike), the world would be a better place.

[Warren DeMontague]

4. Popular sentiment among AM Radio listening, hate-filled yahoos, perhaps. nt

[BrklynLiberal]

6. Isn't it appalling how many of the people who claim to love Jesus, and use his name in everything

they say, could not be further from actually following his teachings?

[Warren DeMontague]

2. First, I'd ask them how the Iraqi people became the "enemy".

I mean, what'd they actually do?

[magellan]

11. You know, I've asked both these neighbors that question

And I've never gotten a straight answer. NEVER. They just go off onto existential tangents. And when I ask again I get the same thing. It's like listening to Bush** at the podium. Lots of fury, lots of gesticulating, amounting to absolutely nothing.

Oh wait, I actually DID finally pin this guy down the other day on the question. He said, "You want the truth? It's about oil."

So they DO know. They just seem to be lost in BushCo's haze until you push them far enough on it.

[Warren DeMontague]

20. Wow. So if someone has something one wants, this guy thinks its okay to kill 'em and take it.

That's some Niiiiiiiiiiiiice neighbors you've got!

You have my sympathy.

[Gregorian]

3. But there's something that's still bugging me about that encounter.

I think you deserve real credit for opening yourself up to that dialog.

But the guy still doesn't get it. He's pouting about how "his children and grandchildren" might end up paying the price. People just don't see it! Why is it always about US? As though we are the only god damned people who count?

What about THEM?

And it's not just what could happen in the future, but what is happening to THEM RIGHT NOW!

Do these people have no fucking clue? There are children in need of emergency medical care over there, with no possibility of help. No medical help. And the ongoing bombs and jets and machine guns and tanks day and night.

I'm appalled at the shortsightedness of Americans.


And if it really is all about 9/11 (and Saddam really did happen to have something to do with it), when do we stop? Or do we continue bombing Iraq forever?

[magellan]

8. I can't argue with you

I'm appalled to have been confronted with two people like this in the course of a week. Unthinking dopes. This one was easier to get through to than the first, but there's no telling how deep the revelation went.

Still, just to get him thinking outside the brainwashing for a few minutes was worth it.

[IChing]

5. Most of the Vietnam Vets I know and have buried in my life

Would say that this man never experienced WAR

or the real power of hydrogen bomb
let alone the real damage it does to
the planet, let alone the human equation.

[magellan]

10. He says he has experienced war

Infantry. '67 for a tour and a half. He said they went into Cambodia and Thailand? Frighteningly, he said that while he was scared all the time he enjoyed killing the Viet Cong and wanted to stay. But just to be contrary, when I asked him what he thought he'd been sent there for he said he never had a clue.

He has a drinking problem though, and I've caught him in one lie (unrelated) already.

[IChing]

13. What type of grunt was he?

I knew all types
gung ho usually never made it back.

I have know medics and hit assassins and in between
in many different combat situations
some in search and destroy
some in just patrol.


He doesn't know what he is talking about
I think his experience is either
a fantasy in his own mind or brought
about by the experience he never lived.

War, by anyone that has experienced it
is never the solution that they would wish
on anyone.

Unless he like the smell of Napalm in the Morning.

[magellan]

16. He said he was trained in supply

...but was thrown into infantry. Boot camp in NC, training in VA. He was telling me a lot of stories this afternoon from his time over there, like how he lost a good friend within seven weeks and eventually learned not to make friends or to help out the new guys. Bits like that rang true.

I actually felt a bit dizzy, listening to him. He was all over the spectrum. One minute saying how he killed plenty of Viet Cong, the next saying he was positive the CIA offed Marilyn Monroe. Just messed up.

[IChing]

18. Napalm in the morning.

[IChing]

19. Atomic in the afternoon

[IChing]

22. War and Justice are two different means to resolve differences,

" one guided by commonly agreed-upon standards of justice,

the other resolved by the calculus of power."


The blood of the civilian in the view of the soldier
is only equal to the sacrifice he does to his soul
that enables him to survive and justify his or her
irrationality of violence.

[derby378]

7. But of COURSE we should have nuked Iraq, silly...

It is our God-given right to put a Starbuck's smack-dab in the middle of Baghdad, Fallujah, and Karbala. And as for Sadr City? Three Starbucks, two McDonalds, and a Victoria's Secret right next to their largest mosque. That'll learn 'em, those ingrates.

Besides, Mark Burnett is just chomping at the bit for Survivor: Anbar Province.

[Redstone]

9. VERY well-handled on your part. No confrontation, no politics, just a question.

Good job.

Redstone

[magellan]

12. You think?

That makes me feel good, thanks! I'm practicing staying calm so I can steer the conversation rather than doing my usual volcano impression and sending everyone scattering. It's HARD for me. :)

[Redstone]

14. It's NOT easy to stay calm when hearing statements of astonishing idiocy. You did well.

Redstone

[omega minimo]

15. "He then admitted to me that he'd only said it because it was the "popular sentiment"."

omega minimo (1000+ posts)  Sun May-13-07 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #39 (previous thread)
43. It sounds like your neighbor isn't "thinking" or "rationalizing" but parroting talking points he's heard somewhere.



magellan (this thread)
8. "Still, just to get him thinking outside the brainwashing for a few minutes was worth it."



:hi: Good luck with helping these folks open their eyes, magellan.

[magellan]

17. Thank you, Omega

:)

[Swamp Rat]

21. Get 'em when they are alone, and they will usually fold.

The ones who don't receive a suggestion to promptly enlist or STFU. :D