For all those in support of the firefighters' actions, what about emergency rooms?

[BzaDem]

I assume everyone here supports publicly funded fire departments. So it seems the argument here is that because of the unfortunate event of there not being a tax-funded fire department serving that city, he deserved what he got because he didn't pay the $75.

OK then. What about emergency rooms? People here obviously support publicly funded healthcare. But we don't have it (just like there was no fire department there). So given that we don't have it, do you support allowing a gunshot victim to die on the street because he doesn't have healthcare? Too bad for the victim, because otherwise hospital workers wouldn't have any money, etc etc etc?

Somehow I doubt it.

[CBGLuthier]

1. We have a subsidized ambulance system

3 bucks a month on top of our water bill. If you opt out and need an ambulance, you get hit with the full bill, usually around a thousand dollars or so.

I would think a similar policy would be preferable to the cold hearted chicken shit behavior of that community. If people don't pay into the system, bill the shit out of them for the services rendered.

I will not argue on this issue. All who applaud the firefighter's actions are beneath contempt. Same goes for all the fucking "lack of sympathy" posts. Fuck em all.

[Freddie Stubbs]

2. The difference is that no one died when the house was allowed to burn

[blueamy66]

3. Didn't some pets die?

I know they're not human, but damn...

[itsrobert]

29. The pets may have been died anyhow

What facts do you have they would be alive if the firefighters rush in a burning building and hauled them out?

[BzaDem]

4. What about non-life-threatening wounds? n/t

[Freddie Stubbs]

36. None have been reported in any of the news accounts

[lunatica]

7. What's your point?

Aren't all house fires considered a threat to life? What about the neighbors? Just let their houses burn down too?

[Freddie Stubbs]

37. They took steps to stop the fire from spreading

[TonyMontana]

9. So that makes it OK?

I can't believe the lack of compassion from a number of you.

[Freddie Stubbs]

38. "Teachable moments" such as these can serve their purpose

You can bet that a lot more people in that community who will pay for fire service.

[HughMoran]

19. 3 dogs and a cat.

& a lifetime of memories.

You support watching this house burn to the ground?

What if this were California and it led to 10,000 additional houses being incinerated?

You you have no use for the common good?

Why are many people socialist until it comes down to actually seeing that everybody receives services?

[Freddie Stubbs]

39. The fire department tooks steps to ensure that the fire did not spread

As for socialists, I am not one. I am a Democrat.

[RaleighNCDUer]

33. Yeah? And when the former residents commit suicide because of losing

EVERYTHING in the world, will you say "who gives a fuck, nobody died"?

What an assholey thing to say.

[Freddie Stubbs]

42. Most of their possessions would have been destroyed by water damage if

the fire department had tried to put out the fire. Who would you blame any suicides on then?

[lunatica]

5. So we still pay taxes but we have to pay additionally to get the same services?

I'd like to know what our taxes are paying for then. Obviously not what they used to pay for.

[BzaDem]

8. What are you talking about?

If you are talking about firefighting, this was a rural area with no fire department. Taxes never paid for a fire department there.

If you are talking about healthcare, taxes never paid for healthcare in general (seniors and Medicaid recipients excepted).

[lunatica]

17. Why did federal taxes not pay for services in this place?

You may talk about one town, but it belongs to a state and every state gets taxes. Both state and federal taxes.

[seabeyond]

28. the fire dept is in a city, in a different state, dependent on local taxes. nt

[uncommon]

23. In this case, the owners did NOT pay taxes to the city to support the fire dept. They could opt-in

for fire protection for a fee of $75 per year.

This owner chose, actively, not to pay the fee, believing that the fire department would help him anyway if there was a fire.

He tried to get something for nothing, and not for lack of means.

The sad thing is, he is probably part of the majority in that area that pushed for this kind of libertarian bullshit in the first place.

[seabeyond]

6. i am not supporting the fire fighters actions. i AM pissed the man chose not to pay his fuckin tax

it is a county and it is NOT about deserving SHIT. it is about the reality of NOT paying for service.

[BzaDem]

10. They should bill him for the costs of putting out the fire and be done with it.

This is not a difficult problem. If he doesn't want to pre-pay insurance, he can post-pay the full cost should something happen. Just like people do for everything else they don't have insurance for. Not have his house burned down.

[seabeyond]

12. it IS a difficult problem. they did bill in the past. and STILL not paid. cost would not

be $75.

and it is a HUGE issue when city is picking up county service because county refuses to provide for citizens. and citizens refuse to pay for service.

and city must them charge their people higher taxs to provide free services for county. people they are NOT obligated to.

[BzaDem]

15. If they don't pay after the fire is put out, the fire department can sue, and sue for legal fees.

This is a problem faced by EVERY business. Tons of businesses have customers or former customers with unpaid bills.

[seabeyond]

16. because this works really well, cost of sueing. many many companies simply pay out

even when they know they are in the right, cause the costs dont justify the amount lost.

[uncommon]

24. Most lawsuits are never paid. Also, fire departments aren't "businesses" they are supposed to be

public services.

(I work in a bk law firm - I see lawsuits and judgments side-stepped daily. There is no guarantee of payment.)

[lunatica]

11. I don't get to choose where my taxes are used

But I pay my taxes. What's different in any other American's life?

If I did have a choice, believe me, I'd definitely choose not to pay into the military budget.

[seabeyond]

13. local pays for the fire dept. the county choses not to pay for fire. they chose not to tax for use

of another fire dept. yet... they ask for the service of another fire dept to take care of their needs. the people paying for that would have to increase their tax to pay for county, who wants free services.

counties responsibility is to charge their people a tax in their taxes and pay city for the use. they voted that down.

[lunatica]

18. So why not put the fire out and bill the house owners?

If the house owners can't pay then take their assets and sell them to a new home owner. Who's going to clean up the fire damage and what is it going to do to the neighborhood to have a burned down house next door? What if letting a house burn to the ground makes houses next to it catch on fire?

See the gist of where I'm going? When it comes to community there's never a simple solution or answer because everyone is involved. If you punish one person you're punishing everyone. But then, that seems to be the American way.

[seabeyond]

20. i guess the city in another state can just say forget it. get your own fire dept

we are tired of messing with yawl. if you want your libertarians ways of not paying for service, then it is yours to figure out.

[HomerRamone]

21. On Olbermann he said he FORGOT

which is entirely possible. Shouldn't he have gotten the benefit of the doubt automatically? What if there were people trapped in the house?!

[seabeyond]

26. prior to olberman he said he thought they would put out fire anyway, if he didnt pay.

his son didnt pay either, but they came out and put out fire. precedent. he later says on olberman he "forgot" to pay.


Mr. Cranick, the owner of the house, said:

“I thought they’d come out and put it out, even if you hadn’t paid your $75, but I was wrong.”

http://www.indyposted.com/114773/tennessee-firefighters-watch-house-burn-down-owners-didnt-pay-subscription-fee/

Read The Full Story: Tennessee Firefighters Watch House Burn Down; Owners Didn’t Pay Subscription Fee – Indyposted

[uncommon]

27. He was quoted earlier as saying he "didn't pay and assumed they would still help him if

he hadn't paid."

[Swede]

31. Both the mayor and city supervisor said everyone is reminded twice

to pay this. Once by mail and once by phone. This guy's son had a fire awhile back,so he knew.

[sybylla]

14. Is everyone forgetting the origin of fire departments?

I believe Ben Franklin gets the credit for forming mutual fire aid associations, whereby people chipped in money to buy equipment and help each other out in the case of fire. If you didn't buy in, you didn't get help in case of a fire. Today, without money there are no fire trucks, no fire fighters, no rescue equipment, etc. That a municipality was stupid enough to switch to a fee based fire department tells me people need to pay more attention to local politics and quit bitching about paying taxes.

Do I support what happened? No. But what appalls me is how the local government was allowed by its citizens to do take essential services off the tax rolls, forcing a fire department and the fine people who work for them to engage in such an abhorrent act.

[surrealAmerican]

32. That really is the issue here.

The county he lives in should be responsible to provide a basic service, such as fire protection (or pay for the nearby city's service), and needs to tax accordingly. The firefighters should not have been put in that position in the first place.

[uncommon]

22. Here's the thing - not supporting the firefighters is tantamount to acceptance of this kind of fee

structure for public services. It's out of control libertarianism, and it will kill people if it continues.

[brendan120678]

25. Bad comparison...

The ER has an obligation to provide life-saving medical treatment, nothing more. Once imminent danger is passed, you are on your own if you can't pay.

The fire department in this instance responded to ensure that life was not in imminent danger. Once it was ascertained that no life was at risk, their obligations to that particular homeowner ended.

[Pathwalker]

30. My township carges $150.00 for an ambulance to take you to the ER.

And we just ad an elderly man die while his historic house burned to the ground because there was no fire hydrant nearby -the closest one was more than a mile away. The neighbors tried to pitch in, providing garden hoses hooked up to their own faucets, but firefighters from 3 municipalities couldn't control it.
This is mid-Michigan.

[Spazito]

34. That's exactly where my thoughts went...

No health insurance, emergency situation, no service!?! If the posters who are saying no pay, no service regarding the issue of letting the home burn are to be consistent then one would have to assume they would feel the same about receiving emergency health care as well yet I suspect, as you do, that would not be the case. It has been amazing, and not in a good way, to read the threads on this and see all the 'no pay, let it burn' supporting posts.

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. This is why laws were passed against patient dumping

the driver for that was a FAMOUS fatality in Las Vegas in oh 1986 iirc.

But after reading all the justifications I am sure some will defend that too.

I am seeing a foreign and very alien country, that's the truth.

[thelordofhell]

40. The County residents do pay a tax and it covers County ER

They just didn't want to pay a tax to another State (Kentucky) for their Fire Department protection, nor did they want to provide fire protection for themselves.

[Lucian]

41. Great comparison.

Basically the same thing.

The opinions on DU over the last couple of days have been really appalling. I thought we were supposed to be liberal, not libertarian.

[gratuitous]

43. I've asked this before

But I haven't seen an answer: The two situations, as far as I can tell, are not analogous, but they appear to be in quite a few people's minds. More power to them. But I haven't seen an explanation for why the two situations are similar. Waving your hands and saying "They just are, okay?" doesn't make it so.

[BzaDem]

44. An ER helps people, even people who have never paid a dime and wont ever pay a dime. They help first

and only ask questions later.